Justice League Unlimited "Task Force X" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Justice League Unlimited returns with a strike on the Watchtower!


http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/talkback.jpg (http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/)

Episode #17 - Task Force X
Original Airdate - May 21st, 2005


Five incarcerated super villains are offered suspended sentences if they can survive an impossible mission: steal a deadly weapon from the Justice League’s satellite headquarters.

Comments?

[John6777]

Since I saw it already I will post. Very Well Done in all standards. The Plot I thought was very original and the animation and story boarded was great. Unfortunetly I cannot say I like Juliet Landau's fake accent as Tala. She was great as Drusilla but just doesn't fit well as Tala.


4 Stars.

[bigddan11]

It's great to see that JLU premeires are back on the air on Toonami.

Note from William C. Maune: Material Deleted. Those are only supposed to be used for when an episode is making its Toonami premiere independent of its US premiere (i.e. The Batman). When the premieres happen at the same time, the DCAF mods handle the Talkback stuff.

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

Pretty good episode. The Cadmus plot gets more and more interesting. I'll tell ya what: seeing the Clock King was like: ALRIGHT FINALLY A BAT-CHARACTER THAT HASN'T BEEN TAKEN BY THE BAT-EMBARGO. But...

God, I miss the rest.... *breaks down and cries*:crying:

[Rabi~en~Rose]

this was a very tense edge of your seat episode for me :eek: it was neat how normal humans were the leagues enemy this time and actually beat them to! all of the fighting inside the Watchtower was scary much and even more when the glass on the windows to space started to crack :eek: Jonn was most frightening when he was fighting the Task Force, when he got ripped in half, and at the end what he wanted to do to the traitor so much for him being the level headed leaguer :(

[Youko Recca]

Wow...that was great. Really, I liked it all.

[RobinDaybird]

Wow.

Just Wow.

Plot is excellent, the characters are set up early and distinctively, you know who they were and got an ideal of why they got hauled in jail. (loved Deadshot's asking G. Lantern about Shayera's autograph).

Props to having Clock King a job that fits his character.

I've never seen J'onn that angry or hauling that much butt. ever. Also excellent giving Shining Knight and Vigilante Fighting time. Especially in giving them a loss not by nessecity of plot but by the fact you knew they outclassed.

Hell, it's lucky for them Annhilator and Atom Masher didn't <i>shattered</i> the glass!

As John said, the bad thing is that Tala's accent didn't suit her at all, that's about the only glaring mistake I can see.

[Alba Aulbath]

I've already seen this episode, but I haven't expressed my full thoughts on it yet.

Seeing it again is always a pleasure. It's a great episode and season two so far has been so much more entertaining and well thought out than its previous season. I like Task Force X a lot; the teammates are unusual, but great. Deashot, Plastique, Captain Boomerang, and Clock King, along with Flagg. The return of Clock King and Deadshot are excellent, and the introductions of Plastique and Boomerang are amusing, as well as Flagg's intro. Acting as a group for Cadmus, it's brilliant.

One of the things I've always wondered, as is the case of this episode and a couple of others, is Vigilante and Shining Knight being apparent friends and a "duo", so to speak. (It's been pretty silent up to this point as far as their vocal roles) About the same as Fire and Ice act as a duo, and the way GL and Flash had been at one time. I don't know much about Vigilante and Knight, but I'd like to see some elaboration on them sometime. Seems like an interesting relationship.

At the end, seeing J'onn break out into battle is great visually, how easily he fought Task Force X because they are simply human; the only thing that stopped him had been the Annihilator. I wonder if Plastique really is dead now?

People have said before, from those who have previously viewed this, that J'onn's reaction at the end is a little extreme. From what we know of J'onn, he's completely lost a family before. His entire species, and has spent a few centuries alone; the Original Seven and probably some other memebers of the JL are his family now. Their lives have been threatened from this event, so his reaction to finding a traitor in the Watchtower staff, I don't think it was too extreme for J'onn. It doesn't make what he wanted to do right, but one does have to keep in mind about J'onn's past and all. Plus... there's also the line of what we want to do, and what we DO actually do.

[Gpoliceman]

This was the only new JLU episode that I, a USA resident in Florida, was able to view when YTV aired it in Canada. I still have not seen The Balance through Question Authority (which Canada just saw last night).

I have to say that Task Force X is one of my favorite episodes of the series. They seriously pulled off miraculously everything they set out to do. It feels like an Oceans Eleven heist, the action is great, you actually care about the villains (cause they're portrayed as the heroes), the Cadmus plot keeps getting better.

I've seen this episode 5 times now. It takes a really great episode for me to watch it that many times.

At this point, I really do thing JLU is going to be light years better than the original Justice League show. The decision to make the league unlimited, and the introduction of the hordes and hordes and hordes of new superheroes was a genius move. I love how, if we look back with the DCAU, it all started with Batman meeting Superman, then from there a team with a few more super powered buddies, and now the team is so huge and so powerful it shows just how dramatic story growth and story evolution can be for a storyline.

Greg

[Rebis]

Excellent to see Atom Smasher, Shining Knight and Vigilante in action, even if they did get their clocks cleaned by the Squad. Pretty intense fight sequence, especially when J'onn got involved.

Gotta say, the Squad was bad-ass. I would love to see this concept spun off into a whole new series -- something even more adult that could perhaps air during the Adult Swim block. Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Clock King, Rick Flag, Amanda Waller and a never-ending stream of expendable criminals out of Belle Reve. Could be fascinating.

And Michael Rosenbaum is just AWESOME as Deadshot. His voice is so liquid and creepy ... and yeah, kinda sexy too.

[Stickman]

"Task Force X" was great, in it's own sense, and in it's continuation of the Cadmus arc. Not as good as "Doomsday Sanction", but still...

What really struck me was J'onn at the ending. Hearing him want to erase that guy's mind literally came out of left field.

A really great ominous ending, too.
"We can't trust anyone anymore..."

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Good episode, but I was disapointed that Atom Smasher didn't talk at all, and then got beat rather easily. He's such a great character in the comics, I'd hate for him to be misused here.

J'Onn seems to be shifting down a darker path. The divide in the league seems immenent.

[screw on head]

That was pretty neat, though I could've used a nice happy ending after seeing Episode III today. I should've expected this, but I didn't really think that the Task Force gang would be wearing JLU employee uniforms the entire episode. The uniforms do make for some cool little moments, like Cap'n Atom holding the door for Deadshot and Plastique.

Who should crazy angles be attributed to when they pop up in Joaquim Dos Santos episodes? It seems like the boarding goes from pretty straight forward to crazy once the action scenes kick in... there's these angles and perspectives that are distinctly pushed in spots, particularly the fight between Vigilante, Shining Knight, and the gang in the hallway, and things just feel stylistically different all of a sudden. It's not bad, but these spikes in stylized shots are a little distracting when they do pop up.

Not a bad episode at all. I liked the little dig Deadshot took at GL on the elevator, and the glimpse J'onn's growing frustration was pretty neat. This had some nice little character moments and neat little crazy action pieces going for it, but this might be an episode I'll be taping over...

[Fone Bone]

Hardly the barn burner I thought it was going to be but I still really liked it. We haven't seen Deadshot in a while and I was pleased to see him unmasked. As for the Clock King's surprise appearance I was REALLY pleased they managed to get Alan Rachins to voice him again (WAAAAY too many of Justice League's characters are recast from earlier series). I miss his costume but am gratified that the Bat-Embargo didn't extend to him.

The animation was top-notch in this episode. I thought the fights were uncharacteristally brutal too. J'onn using his phasing abililty to give the task force heart attacks actually scared me. If we thought Superman might have been going over to the Dark Side in Doomsday Sanction this episode prove that J'onn was already there.

Good to see Captain Atom again but I thought Vigilante was supposed to be voiced by Nathan Fillion. At least we got Adam Baldwin as Flagg and Juliet Landau as Tala and Plastique.

And am I crazy or was the first part of the password "Joss"?

Wow, it was great that the bad guys actually WON this round. I suspected that might happen as I heard the League was supposed to recapture the Annihilator in a later episode but that might have just been a rumor.

The coming week previews intrigued me as we saw Etrigan or J'onn as Etrigan, Parasite and finally Captain Marvel! Wow. I heard he might be appearing on the show but I'm glad to see Billy Batson transform into him.

All in all, a pretty great episode, even though it wasn't AS great as Doomsday Sanction. ****.

[Paul_Cousins]

"Task Force X" rivals in quality with the "Doomsday Sanction". 5 out of 5 stars. :cool:

I found the episode a cross between the "Dirty Dozen" and "Kelly's Heroes", both some of my favorite movies.

Excellent episode in not just the plot and action but how the executed the plot and action. :cool:

Clock King being the planner and 'controler' is a great idea, if timing is everything, he is the man you need.

Deadshot's quotes were great. "I always wanted to die for my country." :cool:

Plastique and Captain Boomerang were good supporting characters.

I like how not everyone on the team made it out alive and how Flagg wanted to keep casuaties to a minimum.

I loved how Flagg slugged Deadshot, told he was on the team for the next five years or he can go back to the 'chair' and then Flagg added the unlike Deadshot, who is doing it because he is being blackmailed, Flagg is doing it for his country.

The scene with J'onn being torn apart and Plastique 'twitching' disturbing.

J'onn being angry at the traitor and wanting to rip is his mind apart was good.

And the capper to the episode was when GL remind the J'onn they could no longer trust anyone, with the scene panning out showing all the technicians walking by int he both the foreground and the background. :cool:

Finally, is anyone keeping score between JLU and Cadmus, because Cadmus won this battle...

[vegetable]

I'm glad to see it aired in widescreen after the clip on CN.com was in fullscreen. I wasn't too satisfied with the ending. Didn't really feel like much of a conclusion to an episode with an already weak plot. The artwork and direction was done quite nicely though.

[Batman Fan]

Wow great episode, wasn't as good as Doomsday Sanction, but still pretty darn good.

This episode had a very unique plot, portraying TFX as the good guys on a mission for the good of the world. They all had there own specialties and skills and showed them well during there mission to retrieve Annihilator and fighting the League, all the while giving them human emotion as you could tell by their faces and there reactions to being really close to their enemies, they were really nervous.

The animation was great, especially during the fight scenes which were brutally and the animation made them all the more better. Great to see Atom Smasher, Vigilante, and Shining Knight getting some screen time. TFX put a major beating on them with the help of Annihilator though, but MM came and turned the whoopings around single handly taking down TFX as well as Annihilator, getting ripped in half during the process, cool! Also, Plastique being left behind was interesting as well, she seemed almost dead.

The music was great and fit with the mood and feel of the episode, which was great cause it makes the villans seem like the good guys and the Leauge evil. Clock King was a big surprise, but his appearence makes sense for TFX because they needed to be precise and not waste any time on their mission

The end where MM wanted to mindwipe a staff member was very Lordish, so I think something is in store for him and Flagg seemed very mysterious as well, I hope we learn more about him. Waller and Tala now have the armor for Cadmus, so lets see what they plan to do with it.

The previews look awesome, with Huntress, Question vs. Green Arrow, Hades, WW and Hawkgirl fighting Demons, Capt. Marvel, Batman vs. Parasite and much more, I can't wait. This episdoe gets ****1/2

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

Yeah, I've noticed comments have been a lot less compared to previous JLU talkbacks.

[Bit Cloud]

I loved when jonn turned around and started smacking the annihilator armor around. I wonder what his power level is?

[Kieralinn]

I thought the ep was OK to further the Cadmus arc but no where near "Doomsday Sanction". I guess I was expecting more excitment. I like that the bad guys won but to me it just wasn't that great. Just decent.:sad: :shrug:

I don't think Plastique is dead. I thought I heard her moan. I think they just meant "fall" in the sense that she didn't make it out. I could be wrong though.

Hunter's Moon, Double Date, Clash and Question Authority are what I am really waiting for.:D

Yah, the mind-wipe moment was very lordish. Though I see his point, he can't start doing those things because then he'd have to do everyone. Like GL said, he probably told them everything he knows now anyway.

[Archangel2385]

The Bad

- Atom Smasher being absolutely pitiful against the Annihilator (come on, he only landed one hit, I know the Annihilator gets stronger, but he barely even touched it)
- sad when Task Force X is more developed in this one episode than Vigilante, Shining Knight, or Atom Smasher

The Neutral

- John’s reaction to Deadshot’s question about Hawkgirl (hard to tell how his relationship is with Shayera)
- Vigilante and Shining Knight: virtually forgettable characters, not given anywhere NEAR enough development


The Good

- animation was very clear & consistent
- music felt very appropriate for a caper-like episode
- Task Force X: gotta love them all, everyone being very humorous, villains that you nearly want to root for
- Colonel Flag’s high-tech glasses
- Task Force X vs. Vigilante, Shining Knight, & Atom Smasher
- the chemistry between Deadshot & Plastique
- return of Waller


The Great

- Plastique’s face while riding in the elevator with Green Lantern
- “You are a very bad boy.” “Tell me you didn’t love it.”
- “Ask yourselves, is being in here with me what you truly desire?” – J’onn
- J’onn finally returning to combat and owning Task Force X, INCLUDING the Annihilator
- J’onn turning more into his Justice Lord persona
- Ending was kinda creppy, especially given the above point, somewhat similar to “Doomsday Sanction”

Final Thoughts

VERY enjoyable episode. I’ve come to like all of Task Force X, though I do have some questions such as what becomes of Plastique and why the heck Colonel Flag appears so unnecessarily brutal sometimes. But hey, I won’t argue, that dropkick he gave Shining Knight was GREAT. Wish he and Batman would go at it. Also, I wonder who is father is; I’d die if it turned out to be one of the Leaguers, like Captain Atom or someone. Anyway, hope to see more of them in the future.

What else, oh yeah, this episode was very interesting in that you didn’t really know who to root for. On the one hand, you have the JLU, which as far as we know are the good guys, and yet we have Task Force X, a group that doesn’t come off as evil at all, just trying to carry out a mission for the sake of national security, and more importantly, to gain their freedom. Clichéd, sure, but effective nonetheless. Naturally, this type of conflict is what made the episode so cool. Another interesting aspect of this episode is how it starts off in somewhat of a light, humorous tone, only to get incredibly dark in the final minutes, all of which is the result of J’onn. His subtle transformation into his Justice Lord self was awesome, though I must admit his idea about erasing that guy’s memory of the last 2 years was CREEPY.

As for the previews of future episodes, they were excellent. Shayera will be back, and with quite the vengeance. We’ll also being seeing more of Cadmus and the Annihilator. Can’t wait. All in all, 4 out of 5 stars.

[DerekPowers]

Good episode, i really enjoyed it. the plot was good, the dialogue was good, there was lots of stuff going on. the pacing in jlu really has gotten much better in season 2, and it definately shows in this episode.

YESSSSSS, the CLOCK KING!!!!! i think that means there is some ray of hope!!! that means the bat embargo isnt like totally set in stone or all encompassing. i guess if theyre obscure bat characters, maybe they got a shot!!

anyway, i loved Death Shot! BUT who is Flag? Is he also an x-villian? seemed to come off that way but they never said. seems if he's part of the 'task force x' that he would be, but anyone know for sure or who he is in the comics? while we're at it, who's that alien looking babe at the end w/ Waller. I know she's appeared before, but who is she? thanks in advance.

We also got the first mentioning of the name "Martian Manhunter". Speaking of which i found his actions at the end disturbing. i understand he's angry. a watch tower infiltration probably stings him alittle more than others, or makes him defensive, since he pretty much runs the place, so he anger was understandable, but still, it was disturbing. i want to know if he erased the worker's mind or not. seemed like he wasnt going to, but still, it was never fully worked out.

anyway, the last thing is this: i liked the episode a lot, BUT i found the animation to be kind of stiff or life-less. dont get me wrong, JL and JLU have seen much worse, but why cant more episodes be animated at the quality of FTMWHE, TOAFT part 2, or even TCATC? seriously, i think overall JLU has suffered from some not so great animation. it seems stiff and life-less, kind of genericly animated. thankfully the overall design of the show makes up for it, but when its animated well it looks so much better. honestly, this is one of the first episodes where i actually thought to myself that the animation quality was noticibly taking away from a really good script and story. i still dont understand how a show like TT can be animated more or less at a consistant high quality, and JL/JLU has such highs and lows, you know.

anyway, other than that, and thats more a comment on the series as a whole, i really liked this episode and CANT WAIT for next weeks'. peace.

[Simpler Simon]

This was a great episode for American viewers to get back into the game with. It's packed with a lot of great character details and little moments, and really makes you connect with the villains behind the heist.

-Screamed like a little girl when I saw Clock King the first time. Talk about smart fanservice.

-Don't think I got an answer to this in the YTV thread. Is Boomerang always so penny-pinching? The 75 cents line was hilarious. And he rocks. The JLU team actually made a guy who tosses boomerangs cool. Thats worth a lot.

-The fight with Shining Knight, Vigilante and Atom Smasher. Brutal.

-J'onn getting torn in half. Even more brutal. Ouch.

I really would've liked a firmer resolution to Plastique's fate, but thats my only gripe with this episode.

[Mr_Millions]

This episode was great. I I guess I don't really have anything to add to what's already been said. I Have to mention that the voice work was superb. The innuendo-filled banter between Deadshot and Plastique wan't exactly natural, but it fit alot better in this episode than usual. I've noticed that this show is moving ever closer to the "gray zone". It's strange; the stories have gotten shorter, but they collectively have more depth. There are still good guys and bad guys, but which ones are which are getting harder to determine.

I remember some reading some theories about a rift between the "supers" and the "norms". I have a feeling that if a grand rift does develope (and it might not) it won't be that simple.

I guess we'll just have to see.

And it was nice to see Clock King. I haven't seen him in years. With all his puns, he'd be the perfect fit for "The Batman". I guess the writers figured there was no challenge. Give thanks for small blessings, I guess. Having said that, there's another possiblity: JLU used the man behind the Clock King, not the character itself. Since The Batman is changing up origins and designs and what have you, it probably wasn't a big deal. That and the point that CK was never an A-list villain (that I know of).

[Robert McSantos]

Why is everyone surprised that Clock King wasn't part of the Bat-Embargo? He's a Green Arrow villain.

[Spectre]

An awesome episode. I loved the team dynamic that Task Force X had. They genuinely enjoyed their villainy, yet they were smart enough and practical enough to work as a team. They're not really insane, with the possible exception of Clock King; they're just superlative criminals who happen to work with a theme.

I would never have guessed that black haired chap was Deadshot; of course, I've never seen him without his mask. Captain Boomerang got an excellent debut- I'm told he's one of Flash's villains, and people were afraid he would come across as too goofy. I had no complaints about him here.

Clock King was used impeccably- it's so natural for him to be in charge of planning and coordination, with his uncanny timing senses. He was clearly a big part of why the mission worked as well as it did. Corporal Flagg was very well done. You get a sense that he has no really villainous motives- he just wants to serve his country, and if doing that means crossing swords with the world's greatest heroes, so be it. He clearly represents the 'good' side of Cadmus.

And as for Plastique... heh heh, I think I liked her most after Deadshot. Cool, collected, and somewhat playful, she and DS bounced off each other well. Somewhat off topic, I must congratulate b.t. on his continued excellence at designing women with healthy derrieres. Plastique didn't disappoint below the waist, and I noticed a few very nice, very subtle shots of her rear end in prime viewing positions. Yummy and discreet.

I was actually pretty surprised that the Task Force was after the Annihilator; as soon as it powered up, I kept thinking, "How are they going to get it off the Watchtower?" It never occurred to me that it might be transportable, being so big and all. I loved the fight it had with Atom Smasher. You could feel the force behind their battle, thanks to the excellent staging and animation. Shining Knight and Vigilante were well-spotlighted also, though they were, as previously mentioned, outclassed. Flagg in particular beat the royal whipperstiches out of Vigilante.

J'ONN WAS CALLED MARTIAN MANHUNTER!!! WOOHOOO!!! I've been waiting for that since the first episodes of Justice League! The Manhunter certainly lived up to his name in this episode, too; he was deceptively ferocious in his assault on the Task Force. I was shocked to see him phase his hand into Captain Boomerang's chest; methinks the Cap'n got a little heartache, hmm? His rapid transformation and constriction of Plastique was pulled off very smoothly, and he flexed his raw muscle on both Deadshot and the Annihilator. J'onn shone in this episode, and it's a pity he was forced to step down, even though it proves he's a good man... err, martian.

The final scene was particularly chilling, and it forces the League to confront what some people have been pointing out since "Initiation": by relying on civilian workers to staff and maintain the Watchtower, the Justice League has opened themselves up to possible infiltration. Now that it's happened, can they really trust their 'crew' anymore? But how can they possibly stay in business without them?

[Master Moron]

I love that they called J'onn Martian Manhunter for once. J'onn really isn't a superhero name. I mean if you told someone you wanted to be J'onn for Halloween they'd wonder why you want to dress up as a French guy for Halloween, but if you tell them you want to be the Martian Manhunter...well, that's probably more acceptable than dressing up as a French guy.

Anyway, I'm not sure why some people think that Task Force X seems more like heroes than villains. I mean, they basically tried to kill one of their own. Which Task Force X member was it who blew up Plastique anyway? I think it was either Boomer or Deadshot, but I can't remember. Anyway, would the Justice League blow up one of their own members? I doubt it. They're the good guys, Task Force X is not.

I'm surprised they showed the gas chamber on Toonami. Justice League sure does get away with a lot. Not that I'm complaining. But, man, this series almost seems adult enough to go on Adult Swim. They should at least switch this show and One Piece around, as Justice League would make a much better Adult Swim lead in than One Piece.

[Fone Bone]

I love that they called J'onn Martian Manhunter for once. J'onn really isn't a superhero name. I mean if you told someone you wanted to be J'onn for Halloween they'd wonder why you want to dress up as a French guy for Halloween, but if you tell them you want to be the Martian Manhunter...well, that's probably more acceptable than dressing up as a French guy.

Anyway, I'm not sure why some people think that Task Force X seems more like heroes than villains. I mean, they basically tried to kill one of their own. Which Task Force X member was it who blew up Plastique anyway? I think it was either Boomer or Deadshot, but I can't remember. Anyway, would the Justice League blow up one of their own members? I doubt it. They're the good guys, Task Force X is not.

I'm surprised they showed the gas chamber on Toonami. Justice League sure does get away with a lot. Not that I'm complaining. But, man, this series almost seems adult enough to go on Adult Swim. They should at least switch this show and One Piece around, as Justice League would make a much better Adult Swim lead in than One Piece.Actually, the earlier they show the show the better. I wasn't enjoying season two of Justice League as much as I should have because it was on a little late for me and I was almost waiting for it to be over watching it. (9:00 is pushing it for me) but I still kept wishing the episode wouldn't end rather than to finish up soon.

[Deadman]

[QUOTE=Master Moron]
Anyway, I'm not sure why some people think that Task Force X seems more like heroes than villains. I mean, they basically tried to kill one of their own. Which Task Force X member was it who blew up Plastique anyway? I think it was either Boomer or Deadshot, but I can't remember. Anyway, would the Justice League blow up one of their own members? I doubt it. They're the good guys, Task Force X is not.[QUOTE]
i know what you mean. task force x werent the good guys and i could see that completely. anyway the episode was a good one. good animation pretty good plot and what just about everyone else said.

[Mr_Millions]

Why is everyone surprised that Clock King wasn't part of the Bat-Embargo? He's a Green Arrow villain.

Because everything I know I've learned from television...television I viewed many years ago.

In other news: Since when does Canada get JLU before the good ol' USA? (mostly rhetorical)

[Ion]

It's all been said already.

The writers set out to do a heist episode and they succeeded. The pacing, dialogue, characterization and action were tuned to perfection.

The peak of the episode for me was Jonn confronting Task Force X. When he realized what they were doing there, he showed us just how much he owns his position as a charter member of the JLU. All their planning and training were worthless against Jonn. He utterly dismantled them.

But the cherry on top came when Jonn recovered from being ripped in two and the Annihilator approached him with his back turned. The pummeling he gave the invincible Annihilator was electric. I mean, that thing is supposed to be an unstoppable juggernaut and Jonn slapped it around like a rag doll with a salvo of blows that would have made Superman's toes curl.

Powerful.

[Outlander00]

May I remind you folks that any talk condoning or giving reference to in a positive way to downloading episodes of ANY KIND is not only frowned upon, but prohibited. We have many industry people who do visit the boards and the last thing they need to see is anything relating to downloading of eps of their shows.

No more further talk of it from here on out or the consequences are warnings.

Get it? Got it? GOOD!

[Crimson]

Holy cow, several hours after an episode of JLU aired and the talkback is still only up to the beginning of page two? It's usually up to 3 or 4, at least, by now. The episode airing in Canada seems to have really stolen CN's thunder.

I thought this was a good episode; not spectacular, but solid and enjoyable.

[CyberCubed]

Anyone know when CN will air an encore?

I would have loved to see this ep.

[Spectre]

Anyone know when CN will air an encore?

I would have loved to see this ep.

I would guess tomorrow, Cyber. Check your TV Guide or something for Sunday, it's probably there.

I'll be curious to see what happens when Cadmus turns the Annihilator against the League. After it ripped through Kaznia in "Hawk and Dove", you know they've thought about what could happen if it were ever loosed again. At least, I hope they've thought about it. Batman's probably thought about it, anyway.

They've got to have a better idea in mind besides Wonder Woman just flying down and yelling "Love and peace! Love and peace!"

God, Vash is such a pu- err, a fluffy kitty cat.

[punkrockgirl]

Good episode! I enjoyed it. Really cool stuff. Oh and Robert is right. Clock King was originally a Green Arrow villain (with a really bizarre costume). He's been used as a Bat-villain for the 60s show and BTAS which is where most people know him from.

[DerekPowers]

Shining Knight and Vigilante were well-spotlighted also, though they were, as previously mentioned, outclassed.

this is the second time i read the 'outclassed' statment, and i actually disagree. When Shining knight, Vigilante, and Atom Smasher showed up, i was excited and felt THEY clearly outclassed the 'task force x'. infact, aside from atom smasher, who had to go up against the anialator, vigilante and sk seemed to be winning until the task force played alittle dirty. plus the anialator helped a lot.

so anyway, i definately thought the task force x was the one who was outclassed. peace.

[RobinDaybird]

They've got to have a better idea in mind besides Wonder Woman just flying down and yelling "Love and peace! Love and peace!"

God, Vash is such a pu- err, a fluffy kitty cat.
Difference is, Vash can actually pull the love and peace stuff off, from Wonder Woman, it makes her a complete hypocrite.

[SirLemming]

Not unbelievably great, but it was solid, and I actually kinda think this show could benefit from more episodes that don't try to be "unbelievably great". It was interesting to see that this new League has a vulnerability due to its increased scope and hired help.

[Willowhugger]

Colonel Flagg and his father were the heads of 'Suicide Squad.' Both he and his father are pretty much identical to the portrayal in the animated episode. Hard nosed military men, not 'quite' as sharp as they think they are, and frankly loathing their underlings as the criminal scum they are.

I think Task Force X made them all likeable seeming but Deadshot's shot to Plastique showed how criminally misguided that Cadmus is and how uttery ruthless the Squad was.

[Ian]

I don't know if it's my current jadedness over most things DCU, but I really didn't think the episode was all that great. There was nothing really wrong with it, but it didn't really enthrall me--I found Riddled more exciting.

[Juu-kuchi]

This was a really good exposition episode for further actions done by Cadmus. I liked the interplay between most of the Task Force members, and the fight scenes were done very well. Nothing great, but it was good to say the least.

[bigddan11]

This episode was worth the wait because we finally got to see J'onn fight oncew more, and it sets up the Cadmus vs. Justice League battle with great interest. I can't wait to see what the season finale looks like now.

[Knight]

5 star ep for me. Although I didnt watch it tonight I had already seen it and it was really good I thought. One of the highlights for me was getting J'onn at his absolute butt kicking best. I couldnt ask for more.

[Dens Maris]

I really enjoyed this one. You'll need to look elsewhere for epic excitement, as having evaded all spoilers for this episode, I still wasn't on the edge of my seat. But I enjoyed it in a different way- a relaxed but engaging viewing. The characterization and dialogue is a welcome gulp of fresh water after such a long drought on television, let me tell you. Was there a single line in this episode I didn't like? Hardly. I'm having a hard time figuring out what my favorite quote is.

Flagg: "You're going to do something patriotic, convict."
Deadshot: "Groovy. Who do I kill?"

Boomerang: "We may as well be storming Heaven's Gate itself."
Clock King: "Unlike Heaven, this tower has a duty schedule."

Plastique: "Blow up a nuclear reactor? Sweet."

Boomerang: (hearing about Martian Manhunter's powers) "The chair's starting to look better every minute."

Flagg: "No unnecessary killing."
Boomerang: "Oh, COME ON..."

Plastique: "You are a bad, bad boy."
Deadshot: "Tell me you didn't love it."

Aw yeah.

And damn, but I loved that fight. Where Superman v. Doomsday and most of the "Cat and the Canary" featured one-on-one duels, this was a brawl, and it was a brawl done right. People getting their licks in on each other every second. I loved how Flagg yanked Vigilante out of his standoff with Deadshot and just owned him, and how J'onn ultimately came back and proved they were all chaff in the wind compared to him. The contrast between those two fights is just beautiful.

Four out of five.

[Drizzt2218]

Great episode! On the writing side, Mr. McDuffie and Mr. Cooke really outdid themselves -- I've come to expect great things from both for the most part, and neither of them disappointed here. The Suicide Squad was awesome, the plot engaging, the dialogue sharp, the action intense...this is easily a 4 star episode. The animation was gorgeous, too. Even the background details stood out, subtle things like Plastique's expression in the elevator. How many cartoons can be subtle, I ask? Like I said, this was a great episode. I loved every minute of it.

--Larry

P.S. Did anyone else get an "Alias" vibe from the music? Normally the music on this doesn't stand out as much as in previous series, but this time I thought it helped add to the atmosphere of the episode.

[Knight]

anyway, i loved Death Shot! BUT who is Flag? Is he also an x-villian? seemed to come off that way but they never said. seems if he's part of the 'task force x' that he would be, but anyone know for sure or who he is in the comics? while we're at it, who's that alien looking babe at the end w/ Waller. I know she's appeared before, but who is she? thanks in advance.

.
Flag is a military man plain and simple. He is not a criminal.He was the field commander for The Suicide Squad /Task Force X in the comics as well before he died. Flag is the one intrusted to watch over the bad guys and does what he does because he loves serving his country much like his father Rick Flag Sr. who in the episode Waller says would have been proud of him.

As for Tala she is a mystic who on the show appears to be handling the magical side of things for Cadmus such as the Annhilator which is magically powered. In the comics she is a Phantom Stranger baddie.

[PaQ]

I thought this was a pretty entertaining surprise. Guess I must've been out of the loop because I wasn't expecting a new JLU till I saw the schedule today (a pleasant surprise of course!). Unfortunately it was an infiltration oriented mission so the villains weren't in their duds but it was still fun to watch.

A lot of great moments. Atom Smasher and Annihilator going at it and nearly breaking the glass. Deadshot's comment to John Stewart about Hawkgirl. And that ending, the whole can't trust anyone perception was nicely done at that moment.

[Paul_Cousins]

I thought this was a pretty entertaining surprise. Guess I must've been out of the loop because I wasn't expecting a new JLU till I saw the schedule today (a pleasant surprise of course!). Unfortunately it was an infiltration oriented mission so the villains weren't in their duds but it was still fun to watch.THAT'S A GOOD POINT!! The 'bad guys' weren't even in their costumes and they still beat the 'good guys' and acomplished their mission. :zim:

I think that is a first for the DCAU... :cool:

[Dens Maris]

Oh, yeah, I think I caught an Easter Egg- when Flagg goes to enter in the passcode to gain entry to the corridor, he puts in this:


6-22-77
JDS365
Anyone happen to know when Joachim Dos Santos was born? :anime:

[Paul_Cousins]

I really enjoyed this one. You'll need to look elsewhere for epic excitement, as having evaded all spoilers for this episode, I still wasn't on the edge of my seat. But I enjoyed it in a different way- a relaxed but engaging viewing. The characterization and dialogue is a welcome gulp of fresh water after such a long drought on television, let me tell you. Was there a single line in this episode I didn't like? Hardly. I'm having a hard time figuring out what my favorite quote is.

Flagg: "You're going to do something patriotic, convict."
Deadshot: "Groovy. Who do I kill?"

Boomerang: "We may as well be storming Heaven's Gate itself."
Clock King: "Unlike Heaven, this tower has a duty schedule."

Plastique: "Blow up a nuclear reactor? Sweet."

Boomerang: (hearing about Martian Manhunter's powers) "The chair's starting to look better every minute."

Flagg: "No unnecessary killing."
Boomerang: "Oh, COME ON..."

Plastique: "You are a bad, bad boy."
Deadshot: "Tell me you didn't love it."

Aw yeah.

And damn, but I loved that fight. Where Superman v. Doomsday and most of the "Cat and the Canary" featured one-on-one duels, this was a brawl, and it was a brawl done right. People getting their licks in on each other every second. I loved how Flagg yanked Vigilante out of his standoff with Deadshot and just owned him, and how J'onn ultimately came back and proved they were all chaff in the wind compared to him. The contrast between those two fights is just beautiful.

Four out of five.One of my favorites is: Flagg says to Plastique, (not the exact quote) "And what happens if Superman shows up?"

Plastique, "Is that before or after I change my shorts?..." :p

I think the members of Task Force X understood who they were going against.


This is from the Canada thread, but I figured I'd throw in my observations.

Temple Fugate: Whoa, definately not expecting that one.

The assistant named Vance: Anyone remember back to that Batman Beyond episode where the rogue computer program Robert Vance tried to take over the Batsuit, and eventually wanted to implant himself into poor little Bobby Vance? If it was intentional, I thought it was a cool little nod because the character model looked remarkably similar to Bobby Vance.Good catch!! :cool: This brings new levels of subtlity to the DCAU if Vance from the Watch Tower is the same Vance from Batman Beyond. :cool:

We know that Bruce Timm and crew have Batman Beyond partly in mind when they are producing the JLU series, "Once of Future Thing Part 2" comes to mind. So the Vance JLU/BB connection is possible.

The coolness factor just keep going up with the JLU series... :cool:

[shany94a]

This was one ep I actually sat down and watched from start to finish. Some of the JLU members really got manhandled (sometimes I wish it was the more ruthless Vigilante II in the League instead of the original), but I enjoyed watching J'onn handle Task Force X in turn like they were children - he's so low-key that sometimes it's easy to forget just how powerful he is. And it was neat to see Captain Boomerang appear in the DCAU, since the comics haven't been too good to him the last year or so ...

[BeastBoyWonder]

One of my favorites is: Flagg says to Plastique, (not the exact quote) "And what happens if Superman shows up?"

Plastique, "Is that before or after I change my shorts?..." :p

I think the members of Task Force X understood who they were going against.

Good catch!! :cool: This brings new levels of subtlity to the DCAU if Vance from the Watch Tower is the same Vance from Batman Beyond. :cool:

We know that Bruce Timm and crew have Batman Beyond partly in mind when they are producing the JLU series, "Once of Future Thing Part 2" comes to mind. So the Vance JLU/BB connection is possible.

The coolness factor just keep going up with the JLU series... :cool:

They could have just re-used an old character model and named him Vance as a reference to Batman Beyond for themselves or for the fans. There's a lot of precedent for them re-using character models/designs.

[Juu-kuchi]

Oh yeah.

It was also nice to see Mel's brother Donal voicing Captain Boomerang.

[Killtacular]

I thought it was alright. It had a nice air of suspense, though I think it slowly lost itself in the homage... little nitpicks started arising.. like why were there only three superheroes around to defend the entire watchtower? Yeah I know they were assigned as guarding it, but was it a particularly busy day that no superheroes were eating lunch or hanging out in the lounge and couldn't have assisted? I know I saw a couple of heroes walking around in the halls that I guess showed their true colors and got the hell out of there at the first sign of danger!

Actually what I thought would've been cool is if Superman did in fact come in at the last second to foil their plan, but I suppose that is playing to expectations (at least, my expectations).

The ending was cool too, though, again, I think it would've been cooler if superheroes were walking in the hallways along with the maintenance people. That's truly "trusting noone." Although I guess the point is that the superheroes are starting to become intolerant towards non-powered people? I guess either's fine.

Still, it was alright. I'd give it a B-. Cat and the Canary remains my favorite episode so far this season.

[BeastBoyWonder]

EDIT: Deleted, clarified, and re-posted. Sry 'bout that.

While the narrative twist that governed this episode has been done before many times, it was executed exceedingly well in this case. All of the characters included had their place within the context of the story, including Temple Fugate who didn't seem to be thrown in there for the heck of it, especially considering the neccessity of being discreet versus having flamboyant villains all over the place. Task Force X had a very cool vibe to it, with the characters being either entirely sympathetic, borderline villains, or in the case of Deadshot, rogues with nothing to lose.

Given that the plot could be easily summarized within a couple sentences, this episode could have been executed poorly, but wasn't. The strength of the episode is really in all of the little details thrown into the script. In particular, the creative team must have upped the ante in terms of what they had asked of the composers, because in many places the music really carries the piece. J'onn kicked some major but, and the fact that he's seen in action so scarcely in JLU made it all the more special. Rosenbaum as Deadshot had some really nice dialogue to work with and pulled off an excellent performance. Plastique was also handled really well, although it is kind of irksome that these days most prominent female characters in the DCAU and comics are objectified or portrayed as sex symbols. Seeing Temple Fugate was good and it was cool to see what could have been a reference to Bobby Vance in <i>Batman Beyond</i> in one of the character models.

Finally, telling the story from the perspective of the purported "villains" and allowing us to sympathize with them brings to light one of the most important aspects of this new JLU that I actually think is one of its strongest points, something that kind of harkens back to those old BTAS villains but to a grand scale. By putting the story in the perspective of the villains, the episode helps to reveal just how scary the JLU seems.

Politically speaking, the JLU comes very close to satisfying the conditions of being its own soveirgn nation. Furthermore, the show has demonstrated that they act autonomously with many clear violations of the soveirgnty of other nations. The vigilantism / clean-up work in shows like Batman and Superman is a radical departure from the course of action that this new JLU takes. Structurally, the JLU is almost like a monarchy invoking the principles of divine right. They pass judgment and dole out punishments without respect for due process, like in the case of Doomsday where he was basically damned to eternal torment without a fair hearing, or in the case where J'onn was inclined to wipe Vance's mind without a good reason. Generally, in order to join the JLU you have to have superpowers, something that is usually a predefined trait rather than something that the characters are in control of. There's no test to pass or democratic system for joining the JLU, you either can or you can't.

So basically, the Justice League's "authority" comes from predetermined charactaristics that nobody has any control over or say in, very much like rationalizations for the principles of divine right. This episode brings to light that with that authority alone, they're infringing on national soviergnty and determining punishments to dole out to individuals. That is part of why Batman finds it so important to include individuals like Green Arrow in the group, and that is why the government is scared senseless by the JLU. While the manner in which Project Cadmus is attempting to achieve their goals (consorting with criminals, etc.) is self-destructive, their intentions are just as sympathetic as that of the JLU's. At least at this point. Overall, not a very substantiative episode that was executed very well and raises some interesting questions.

[Karkull]

Hmm...it ain't exactly the Trophy Room of Justice League lore, but that storage level had a treasure trove of freeze-frame goodies. I spy Grodd's mind control helmet, Weather Wizard's wand, a rack of Thanagarian weapons, what may be the head of a giant robot (which doesn't match up with the one's from "Legends" or "The Greatest Story Never Told"), Lex Luthor's suit of armor, Lex Luthor's superpower-negating cannon (from "A Better World"), and -- of course -- the Annihilator.

[Caswin]

Good continuing of the main plot, I really liked the emphasis on the regular purple-shirts, managed to seem pretty long, nice ending note, and really - can you go wrong with the Clock King?

4.5/5

[BrendaBat]

I didn't love this episode as much as everyone else did. Though I squealed like the immature fangirl I am when I saw Clock King. :p

J'onn's freakout at the end was AWESOME, but everything leading up to it was pretty dull. The guy with the bad Austrailian accent was funny, but Plastique and Deadshot were boring (and their flirty banter was just lame). And my sister and I just giggled at the silly-looking superheros that took on the battlesuit (a knight, a cowboy, and a mucha lucha reject) :D.

However, the cool stuff balances out the boring stuff. So I give this episode a 3 out of 5.

[Revelator]

Colonel Flag appears so unnecessarily brutal sometimes. But hey, I won’t argue, that dropkick he gave Shining Knight was GREAT. Wish he and Batman would go at it.

In Suicide Squad #13 that's exactly what happened. During a big JLI/Squad brawl Batman and Flagg lose control and get into a very nasty fight. They continue slugging each other even after the Squad and League have called a truce, and have to be forcibly separated before they kill each other.
Flagg goes to the hopsital, and Jonn and (a very angry) Batman have a confrontation, with most of the yelling coming from Batman's end.
If you track down the issue, make sure to buy Justice League International #13, which is the first half of the crossover.

***

The talkback topic does seem a bit small--probably it's because many people already saw this episode when it first appeared and spoke their minds on the YTV talkback. Also, since it's been a long time since a new JLU premiered, some people simply may have missed TFX by presuming a re-run would be on tonight.
In terms of sheer craft and enjoyablity, this is one of the very best JLU episodes, and a great little heist film in itself. And considering how awful the music was during the first JLU episodes, here it's terrifically snazzy.
Lastly, TFX features what may be Carl Lumbly's most intense performance. If a lot of people jumped back when Jonn said he wanted to wipe Vance's mind, it's because Lumbly's voice was practically leaking molten lava.

[Spectre]

Lastly, TFX features what may be Carl Lumbly's most intense performance. If a lot of people jumped back when Jonn said he wanted to wipe Vance's mind, it's because Lumbly's voice was practically leaking molten lava.

Not to mention the nice use of the glowing eyes. Admittedly, it's a small effect, but the JLU production crew knew exactly when in the story to throw it in. As it's used in TFX, it serves to remind us that, for all his kindness and humanity, J'onn is still an alien, and he can be inhumanly frightening at times.

[Arrakhat]

Arghhhhhhhhhh! I missed it! I set it up to tape but my vcr failed me, stupid demon machine! So does anyone know if it will be on CN again any time soon? Help me out here please.:crying:

[Supremus]

Holy cow, several hours after an episode of JLU aired and the talkback is still only up to the beginning of page two? It's usually up to 3 or 4, at least, by now. The episode airing in Canada seems to have really stolen CN's thunder.I don't know if that's really true. It has never been a problem in the past, and even the Canada thread for QA seems a little short for such a great episode. It could be the Star Wars effect, or perhaps more likely the fact that a lot of people have had connection problems with the TZ pages. I have had loads of problems over the last week or two, as have a few of my friends, and it was pretty much inaccessible for a period of 12-15 hours since last night.


Actually what I thought would've been cool is if Superman did in fact come in at the last second to foil their plan, but I suppose that is playing to expectations (at least, my expectations).Any excuse to have Superman to save the day is usually fine with me, but in this case, I think having the baddies "win" was far better than the obvious cookie-cutter ending some may have expected, particularly in the context of an episode being told entirely from the baddies' perspective, which was a welcome throw-back to some of the great BTAS episodes.

[Paul_Cousins]

Any excuse to have Superman to save the day is usually fine with me, but in this case, I think having the baddies "win" was far better than the obvious cookie-cutter ending some may have expected, particularly in the context of an episode being told entirely from the baddies' perspective, which was a welcome throw-back to some of the great BTAS episodes.Like from the B:TAS episode "If you are so smart, why aren't you rich?" :cool:

[Rabi~en~Rose]

Hmm...it ain't exactly the Trophy Room of Justice League lore, but that storage level had a treasure trove of freeze-frame goodies. I spy Grodd's mind control helmet, Weather Wizard's wand, a rack of Thanagarian weapons, what may be the head of a giant robot (which doesn't match up with the one's from "Legends" or "The Greatest Story Never Told"), Lex Luthor's suit of armor, Lex Luthor's superpower-negating cannon (from "A Better World"), and -- of course -- the Annihilator.

who designed that room anyway I bet it was Batman :confused: shouldn't each one of those thing should be locked down in their own seperate little chamber not all together like one big toybox?

[warmachine04]

"Task Force X" gives us the first appearance of the Suicide Squad and another look of the potential threat of Cadmus to the League. The episode is surely the most creative episode of the season far. A solid storyline. There were moments which I started cheer for the bad guys. The notion of "Who can you trust" was well used in this episode. Very Impressed.

[Spectre]

Why are we all so sure this episode concerns the Suicide Squad? I always thought that was composed of metahumans as well. Admittedly, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, and Plastique are all members, but I was hoping for a larger, more colorful lineup for the actual Squad itself. I'm still crossing my fingers that b.t. can do enough begging, pleading, and arm-twisting to get Poison Ivy on the final JLU Squad...

[Trevor Balena]

Why are we all so sure this episode concerns the Suicide Squad? I always thought that was composed of metahumans as well. Admittedly, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, and Plastique are all members, but I was hoping for a larger, more colorful lineup for the actual Squad itself. I'm still crossing my fingers that b.t. can do enough begging, pleading, and arm-twisting to get Poison Ivy on the final JLU Squad...
In the comics, as you may or may not know, Task Force X is the official name of the Suicide Squad. I think we're all assuming that the network wouldn't let them use the work "suicide" in that context, and so they went with the alternate name.

In other words, I'm pretty sure this is the one and only Squad we're going to get.

[Spectre]

Awww, nuts. I wanted to see the Squad in all their costumed glory...

Oh, TBalena, I must say your current avatar is making me giddy and excited. "Clash" can't air soon enough.

[Kid Eternity]

I liked this episode as well. From start to finish "Task Force X" was a non-stop thrill ride. I was kind of hoping that Flash would be in this one. I would've loved to have seen a Flash and Boomerang fight. Other than that, I hope the Suicide Squad makes a return appearance in the future. If they do, I wouldn't mind seeing Bronze Tiger, Enchantress, Blockbuster and Tsurkri (sp) in the group. They should also do a Colonel Flagg and Batman brawl like they done in the comics.

[Maestro]

Another great episode. It was nice seeing old Clock King again. I feel kinda sad for Plastique, though. Deadshot's such an ass.

[The Clown Prince]

This really makes me upset. :mad: JLU hasn't had any new episodes for so long, then of course when they air it, I completely miss it. AND it was a Cadmus episode AND the Clock King made his DCAU return.

What upsets me the most, is that CN in the past would air the new episode multiple times through out the week, or rerun the episode just before the new episode. Nope, CN doesn't have it listed again, neither does TVGuide.com. This sucks! :mad:
The Clown Prince

[Sue]

"Task Force X" was great, in it's own sense, and in it's continuation of the Cadmus arc. Not as good as "Doomsday Sanction", but still...

What really struck me was J'onn at the ending. Hearing him want to erase that guy's mind literally came out of left field.

A really great ominous ending, too.
"We can't trust anyone anymore..."That part brought to mind Identity Crisis, where members of the League had villians mind-wiped. It was a little shocking to see J'onn react that way, but not really. As in IDC, the heroes faced a serious threat and had to take drastic measures to stop it. I didn't think J'onn was being unreasonable.

As for the rest of the episode, I loved it. Task Force X mixed well, and I thought the banter between Deadshot and Plastique was a hoot. Clock King's role reminded me of the one Calculator now plays for the villians in the comics, like their very own Oracle. It was nice to see Shining Knight, Vigilante, and Atom Smasher kick some ass, even though theirs got handed to them. Still, Vigilante had some good moves; all those drunken brawls at the saloon and the county barn dance came in handy ;)

[Fone Bone]

EDIT: Deleted, clarified, and re-posted. Sry 'bout that.

While the narrative twist that governed this episode has been done before many times, it was executed exceedingly well in this case. All of the characters included had their place within the context of the story, including Temple Fugate who didn't seem to be thrown in there for the heck of it, especially considering the neccessity of being discreet versus having flamboyant villains all over the place. Task Force X had a very cool vibe to it, with the characters being either entirely sympathetic, borderline villains, or in the case of Deadshot, rogues with nothing to lose.

Given that the plot could be easily summarized within a couple sentences, this episode could have been executed poorly, but wasn't. The strength of the episode is really in all of the little details thrown into the script. In particular, the creative team must have upped the ante in terms of what they had asked of the composers, because in many places the music really carries the piece. J'onn kicked some major but, and the fact that he's seen in action so scarcely in JLU made it all the more special. Rosenbaum as Deadshot had some really nice dialogue to work with and pulled off an excellent performance. Plastique was also handled really well, although it is kind of irksome that these days most prominent female characters in the DCAU and comics are objectified or portrayed as sex symbols. Seeing Temple Fugate was good and it was cool to see what could have been a reference to Bobby Vance in <i>Batman Beyond</i> in one of the character models.

Finally, telling the story from the perspective of the purported "villains" and allowing us to sympathize with them brings to light one of the most important aspects of this new JLU that I actually think is one of its strongest points, something that kind of harkens back to those old BTAS villains but to a grand scale. By putting the story in the perspective of the villains, the episode helps to reveal just how scary the JLU seems.

Politically speaking, the JLU comes very close to satisfying the conditions of being its own soveirgn nation. Furthermore, the show has demonstrated that they act autonomously with many clear violations of the soveirgnty of other nations. The vigilantism / clean-up work in shows like Batman and Superman is a radical departure from the course of action that this new JLU takes. Structurally, the JLU is almost like a monarchy invoking the principles of divine right. They pass judgment and dole out punishments without respect for due process, like in the case of Doomsday where he was basically damned to eternal torment without a fair hearing, or in the case where J'onn was inclined to wipe Vance's mind without a good reason. Generally, in order to join the JLU you have to have superpowers, something that is usually a predefined trait rather than something that the characters are in control of. There's no test to pass or democratic system for joining the JLU, you either can or you can't.

So basically, the Justice League's "authority" comes from predetermined charactaristics that nobody has any control over or say in, very much like rationalizations for the principles of divine right. This episode brings to light that with that authority alone, they're infringing on national soviergnty and determining punishments to dole out to individuals. That is part of why Batman finds it so important to include individuals like Green Arrow in the group, and that is why the government is scared senseless by the JLU. While the manner in which Project Cadmus is attempting to achieve their goals (consorting with criminals, etc.) is self-destructive, their intentions are just as sympathetic as that of the JLU's. At least at this point. Overall, not a very substantiative episode that was executed very well and raises some interesting questions.Great points all. I personally think a league split is inevitable this season with the way things are going, although I wouldn't be surprised either way. IF there IS I suspect most of the heroes WITHOUT superpowers would be on one side.

I think the Lord-League would have: Superman, Wonder Woman, Jo'nn J'onnz, Flash (Batman would INSIST Flash stay with Superman to make sure he doesn't go off the deep end), Captain Atom, and Vixen.

The anti-league should be Batman, Green Arrow, Huntress, Black Canary, Shayera, Green Lantern (I say him because of his reaction to J'onn last night), the Question, and Supergirl.

Aquaman, Dr. Fate, and Etrigan would remain neutral.

Just a silly theory and I don't expect it to happen but it COULD.

One complaint I had about last night's episode was that the animation for Captain Atom holding the door up was so bad it looked like it belonged on Saturday Night Live's TV Funhouse. And I'm not exaggerating. I seriously thought that when I first saw it.

I liked the idea of Boomerang being a penny pincher too. Having seventy five cents almost jeopardize the mission was very funny.

And yeah, on second viewing, the key code looked more like an homage to Joaquim Del Santos than Joss Whedon.

[bigddan11]

You don't have Hawkgirl on that list, and in my opinion, if the League split Hawkgirl and Green Lantern would defintley stay together.

[Fone Bone]

You don't have Hawkgirl on that list, and in my opinion, if the League split Hawkgirl and Green Lantern would defintley stay together.I DO have Hawkgirl on that list but she goes by Shayera now.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Mmmmm...Justice League Unlimited. I thought "Task Force X" was a pretty cool episode. Not mindblowing like "Doomsday Sanction", but I like how we got a look at the villains (first time Captain Boomerang was ever animated, right? Looked freakin' sweet!). Plastique I had never heard of, but this whole thing was cool, like Ocean's Eleven, and we sorta got to root for the bad guys (I was up until the Atom Smasher, Vigilante, Shining Knight part).


Anyone happen to know when Joachim Dos Santos was born? :anime:
I wrote it down...thought it was 8-22-77 JDS365, but I could be wrong. I couldn't find his birthday anywhere, but 365 would mean a year. Would he be that young? That's my sister's age, I dunno. At first I thought it was the year the first Suicide Comic came out or something, I'm not sure.

I liked how we saw the three lesser heroes, that was fun. I think Shining Knight is just the coolest.


Good to see Captain Atom again but I thought Vigilante was supposed to be voiced by Nathan Fillion. At least we got Adam Baldwin as Flagg and Juliet Landau as Tala and Plastique.
Was that Nathan? No one was credited as Vigilante, and it did kind of sound like him, but I admit the only time I've heard him talk in the last year was on reruns of Two Guys and A Girl.

J'onn's fight was awesome and scarey. It's understandable that he'd be so angry considering he came from such a civilized society, and being a superhero tends to make you see the worst in humanity (just because you're fighting so many villains and making hard choices).

[Freedom Fighter]

The thing that intrigued me the most about the episode was the ending... after all, the Task Force did complete their objective, and GL and MM's worries about whether there are other spies in the Justice Tower.

(I haven't seen JLU all that much, so I was surprised when there were regular people working around the Tower with the heroes. In my sense, since I missed the episode where this was established, it was a little confusing, but still, this 'bit' was needed for the plan to seem plausible.)

Love the 'Ocean's Eleven'-type feel, love that it left me intrigued as to what the result of this theft will lead to in future episodes (even if in DC show fashion there are a few odd episodes/adventures before said resumption of plot).

7.5 out of 10. Good characters, good storyline, good action, and a hook to make me come back to see what this leads to later on in the season. That's all I ask for in a show to watch every week. Good job, JLU team.

[Spectre]

You don't have Hawkgirl on that list, and in my opinion, if the League split Hawkgirl and Green Lantern would defintley stay together.

I agree, and not even due to their past relationship- Shayera has definitely learned some hard lessons about 'assuming authority' and passing judgment without the right to do so. I can most definitely see her siding with the anti-Leaguers. Or should we call them the Outsiders? ;)

And would Karen really side against Clark? I know she's terrified of what Cadmus has done with her DNA, but if "Initiation" is any indication, she has no problem forcing her will on others. Then again, she did stop Superman from killing Darkseid in "Legacy"... so she clearly has reservations about superheroes being the final authority. And if they did split as you predict, would Superman really fight Supergirl?

And finally, I like to think Dr. Fate, though remaining neutral, would lend tacit support to Batman and his forces, by virtue of his desire to help mankind help themselves, rather than lording over them.

[Fone Bone]

Was that Nathan? No one was credited as Vigilante, and it did kind of sound like him, but I admit the only time I've heard him talk in the last year was on reruns of Two Guys and A Girl.
I KNOW it wasn't Nathan after seeing it again. It sounded to me to be Micheal Rosenbaum.

Still can't figure out who voice Shining Knight.

[thanos28542]

WOW! What an awesome episode! Finally, we got to see Vigilante, Shining Knight & Atom Smasher in action as well as getting some lines. Shining Knight wasn't messing around w/that sword, he was trying to slice some heads off there! Is he super strong cuz he took some hard hits from Flagg & then he put 2 big dents in that door with his fists. Flagg is a brutal fighter as well. He put a beat down on Vigilante & finished him off by smashing his face into the wall & then slamming him hard into the wall. I loved J'onn kicking Squad butt & how resilient he is, even to being torn apart! If him an Supes ever went at it, I wouldn't be too surprised to see J'onn come out on top. JLU just seems to get better & better w/each episode they air. Can't wait for the "Clash"!

[Fone Bone]

I agree, and not even due to their past relationship- Shayera has definitely learned some hard lessons about 'assuming authority' and passing judgment without the right to do so. I can most definitely see her siding with the anti-Leaguers. Or should we call them the Outsiders? ;) Hey! I ALREADY put them together on the list. Her name is Shayera now. Did NO-ONE see Wake the Dead?


And would Karen really side against Clark? I know she's terrified of what Cadmus has done with her DNA, but if "Initiation" is any indication, she has no problem forcing her will on others. Then again, she did stop Superman from killing Darkseid in "Legacy"... so she clearly has reservations about superheroes being the final authority. And if they did split as you predict, would Superman really fight Supergirl?I definately see Kara questioning what is happening to the league. And I also think that if the League is split it will be more complicated than the two factions fighting each other. Not a simple "Good guys and bad guys" type deal so I don't think it would matter if Superman would fight Kara or not.


And finally, I like to think Dr. Fate, though remaining neutral, would lend tacit support to Batman and his forces, by virtue of his desire to help mankind help themselves, rather than lording over them.I get this feeling as well.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

One of the big problems I'm sure writers must face when they're doing a show like Justice League is how to create suspense. They get the double-whammy, because they have people with power-levels like Superman, in addition to the business constraints that characters like him bring along (never, in a million years, is Batman going to be killed or even grieviously wounded in an episode of JLU).

"Task Force X" manages to create that suspense in two ways: by using a team of villains led by a guy with questionable motives, and then by using a classic suspense-builder "heist" scheme driving the whole thing. Nothing can create suspense quite like a ticking clock, after all.

As a heist story, it works pretty well. I liked the nod to older continuity that made Ares' Eradicator the goal of their heist. The banter between the TFX members was fun, with the Plastique/Deadshot repartee balancing nicely between being sexy and overtly sexual. And, of course, by using mostly villains for the team and largely unknown ones at that, it remains distinctly possible that any one of them isn't going to come back from this mission. It's surprising, and surely a credit to the writers, that I was as surprised and disappointed (because she's not coming back) as I was over Plastique's death near the end of the episode.

Joaquam Dos Santos (one of these days, I'm going to pay more attention so I can spell his name right :shrug: ) is ever-dependable for action sequences that are over-the-top, but always easy to follow. I also thought it was really clever to show the difference between first- and second-string Leaguers through fight scenes with TFX. While there are a few close-calls between TFX and Atom Smasher, Vigilante, and the Shining Knight, TFX really didn't have much trouble with those guys. Then someone like J'onn walks in and beats the tar out of all of them without even looking like he's trying that hard. I was surprised at the level of violence that was permitted, like ripping J'onn in half and making it pretty clear that Plastique had bought it by the end, but it never felt excessive or gratuitous.

I noted that the story was by Dwayne McDuffie, but the teleplay was by Darwyn Cooke. For those who don't recognize Cooke's name, he was the guy who did the intro sequence to Batman Beyond, and is an excellent comic book creator in his own right. However, he also has some pretty strong opinions about the dark and ugly trends in superhero comics of today (shown in comics format in this one-page story (http://www.comicon.com/pulse/images_05/1solod7.jpg) from one of this year's Free Comic Book Day offerings). Given his opinions, I'm pretty positive that Cooke hated Identity Crisis, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if J'onn's "I'd like to mind wipe him" comment, followed by GL's shock and surprise is an in-joke/dig at IC.

All in all, I thought this was a far better "bridge" episode than "Doomsday Sanction," since it managed to tell a coherent stand-alone story worth watching while also setting up a few more dominoes to fall as the season wears on.

-- Ed/Ace

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

I realise I'm incredibly late here, but when the episode first aired I couldn't get toonzone to work. Anyway, this episode was just great. Although "Hawk & Dove" was in my opinion a mediocre episode, I thought it was cool that the Suicide Squad stole the Annihilater. I really thought that the whole plot was excelent. Also the Atom Smasher, Vigilante and Shining Knight vs. The Suicide Squad and Annihilater was pretty awesome. It's also great that Vigilante and Shining Knight finaly get some dialogue. Was that Micheal Rosenbaum who talked for Vigilante? Anyway, I gotta go to work now, see you all later!

[Harley_Quinn]

What a great episode! Jonn's anger really surprised me mainly because he usually so even keeled. I really get the sense that the heros are getting an us against them kind of thought pattern. I gonna watch it again later but it was a great episode.

[Lef T]

Since I moved and decided to save money (which means no cable) I haven't been able to catch too much of this season. From this season I've only seen TCATC episode but I'll eventually catch up. Fortunately, I was at a friend's house on Saturday and I made him turn to CN at 9:00.

I was impressed with how much this show has grown. The stakes are higher and sometimes the bad guys win. I can't wait to see the follow up. My buddy who is like, 34 years of age, and one jaded individual actually said "Pretty good" at the end. Maybe I can him persuade him to allow me to view the next new episode.

Fav Moment: GL unwittingly allowing their mission to be successful by being distracted by his memories of Shayera.

[Vixen]

Yay!! This is the first time that I didn't read any spoilers beforehand! *pats self on back*


Anywho, this was a pretty solid episode. The artwork was definitely an improvement over DS. The storyline was tight, & it proved how vulnerable the League can be. Why in the world did they let regular civilians on their Watchtower? Couldn't they have trained some of the lesser used heroes how to use the equipment? And another thing, if J'onn couldn't read that dude's mind, why in the world did they let that guy even in the Watchtower? Now, J'onn is getting all angry , & wanting to wipe out the guy's entire memory from the last 3 years. Shouldn't he have sensed that something was wrong in the first place? Is this really the real J'onn J'onzz?

Task Force X was an interesting bunch of individuals, except the only one that I recognized was the Clock King (thanks to B:TAS). Even though the other four I've never seen before, I gleaned enough of what they showed to kinda figure out what they were about. My only questions are: who is Colonel Flagg? Who is his father that Amanda Waller said would be "so proud of him"? What is Flagg's role in the Cadmus conspiracy?

Other than that, solid episode. 4/5.

[Harley_Quinn]

Yay!! This is the first time that I didn't read any spoilers beforehand! *pats self on back*
Me too, I love watching a show like that!


Why in the world did they let regular civilians on their Watchtower? Couldn't they have trained some of the lesser used heroes how to use the equipment? And another thing, if J'onn couldn't read that dude's mind, why in the world did they let that guy even in the Watchtower? Now, J'onn is getting all angry , & wanting to wipe out the guy's entire memory from the last 3 years. Shouldn't he have sensed that something was wrong in the first place? Is this really the real J'onn J'onzz?
I would assume the reason they allow civilians to work there is purely a logistical deal, the Watchtower is simply too big to be run by the heros anymore. I would assume that we they employ someone at the watchtower they don't scan their minds. It was probably just something that they didn't think about and it came back and bit them.

J'onn did seem really tempermental but I think it has to do with all the tension that has been building up with the Cadmus conspiracy.

[Vixen]

Me too, I love watching a show like that!It helps not to know what's gonna happen. Why didn't I ever do that before?:D


I would assume the reason they allow civilians to work there is purely a logistical deal, the Watchtower is simply too big to be run by the heros anymore. I would assume that we they employ someone at the watchtower they don't scan their minds. It was probably just something that they didn't think about and it came back and bit them.I understand what you're saying, but that's just really a very, very dumb move. After what happened in Starcrossed, where one of their own was a traitor, why in the world would they even think about letting civilians on board? They should have taken in to consideration that maybe one of their archenemies could have planted a mole to take then down at any time, not just Cadmus.


J'onn did seem really tempermental but I think it has to do with all the tension that has been building up with the Cadmus conspiracy.I think so too, but his actions seem a litle Lord-ish to me.

[Knight]

Task Force X was an interesting bunch of individuals, except the only one that I recognized was the Clock King (thanks to B:TAS). Even though the other four I've never seen before, I gleaned enough of what they showed to kinda figure out what they were about. My only questions are: who is Colonel Flagg? A military man following in his fathers footsteps of serving his country. Thats about it really nothing earths shattering about him. He's a regular guy.
Who is his father that Amanda Waller said would be "so proud of him"? Rick Flagg Jr's father was a member of the original Suicide Squad along with his mother Karin Grace
What is Flagg's role in the Cadmus conspiracy? Simply to do what he is told and lead Task Force X when called upon.

[Vixen]

A military man following in his fathers footsteps of serving his country. Thats about it really nothing earths shattering about him. He's a regular guy.Rick Flagg Jr's father was a member of the original Suicide Squad along with his mother Karin Grace . Simply to do what he is told and lead Task Force X when called upon.Thanks for the answers. Now I'm up to speed:D .

[Fone Bone]

It helps not to know what's gonna happen. Why didn't I ever do that before?:D No spoilers rocks. Period.


I understand what you're saying, but that's just really a very, very dumb move. After what happened in Starcrossed, where one of their own was a traitor, why in the world would they even think about letting civilians on board? They should have taken in to consideration that maybe one of their archenemies could have planted a mole to take then down at any time, not just Cadmus.I'm pretty sure all employees of the Watchtower having to go through a mind-sweep to work there would be considered a HUGE violation of civil rights. A lot of people don't even like to be drug tested. How would they feel if someone could learn that they were a lousy parent or that they were cheating on their spouse?


I think so too, but his actions seem a litle Lord-ish to me.I think that was the point.

[superpants]

No spoilers rocks. Period.I'm pretty sure all employees of the Watchtower having to go through a mind-sweep to work there would be considered a HUGE violation of civil rights. A lot of people don't even like to be drug tested. How would they feel if someone could learn that they were a lousy parent or that they were cheating on their spouse?I think that was the point. howdy. this is my first post, but i've nosed around on this site for a while.

employers have all kinds of rights in relation to their employees, including the right to demand drug tests and medical examinations for insurance coverage. a j'onn-style mental exam seems extraordinarily invasive, but the justice league, which seems to be a private organization without any direct obligations to any particular country or its laws, can probably do whatever it wants to do about screening its employees. and in the hyperreality of the dcau, a mind scan (which j'onn did in the first episode with amazo and which does seem like a violation of civil rights since the people involved were unwitting citizens who receive constitutional protections) from a martian seems like small potatoes anyway.

nonetheless, such invasive screening would seem to undermine one of the primary benefits, if not the primary benefit, of hiring "normal" people in the first place: a show of transparency, trust, and goodwill towards the unpowered masses.

this discussion really rests on that relationship between the jlu and the rest of the world, and i saw on page 3 of this thread one fairly lengthy post by steel that addressed some aspects of this relationship and the very nature of the league and that i found very interesting, so, if i have time later and if anyone is interested, i'd enjoy picking up that topic in more detail.

[Anarky]

bad azz
finally...j'onn gets to throwdown

The Annihilator under Cadmus's control. I foresee much pain in the League's near future.

glad to have new eps of JLU...now if they'd onbly keep up w/ the dvds!!!

After much talk, we have ourselves the DCAU Suicide Squad
glad to see Clock King back in action. And Deadshot sans mask. For obvious reasons, they'll probably continue to be named Task Force X. Gen. Flagg is one serious bastitch.

[SteveMiamiFL]

Unfortunately, my cable was out and I was unable to tape Task Force X on 5/21/05 on Cartoon Network. If anyone happens to have a recorded copy of this episode then I would be more then happy to purchase it from you. Please e-mail me.

Thank you

[Temple Fugate]

(Not to push a giant red Alarm button here, SteveMiamiFL, but the mods have strict rules against discussion of bootlegs on this forum. Regardless, welcome to Toon Zone. :) )

This episode proves you can do a JLU episode focused on villains with no superpowers and totally get away with it. I'm almost convinced these writers could make an episode focused entirely on a ball of string and make it entertaining. The episode had an Oceans Eleven vibe to it, right down to the killer music score. And Clock King...CLOCK KING. I'm happy.

They made Cap Boomerang an awesome fellow. They gave Atom Smasher his fifteen minutes of JLU fame. They established more Cadmus wrongdoings and goings-on. And they left us with a very serious question: "Who is on our side?" Very nice pull back through the corridor with nameless technicians walking around. A tad unsettling, I must say.

Justice League Unlimited 2x04: "Task Force X" - ****1/2

[Zergrinch]

You know, I thought that Plastique was merely injuired at the end of Task Force X, and not killed. Rick's statement only meant that Cadmus has lost the use of one of its operatives - not that said operative is pushing up daisies. After all, J'onn did say "tend to her". Would you say that if the person were dead? :evil:

[Yojimbo]

WOW! What an awesome episode! Finally, we got to see Vigilante, Shining Knight & Atom Smasher in action as well as getting some lines. Shining Knight wasn't messing around w/that sword, he was trying to slice some heads off there! Is he super strong cuz he took some hard hits from Flagg & then he put 2 big dents in that door with his fists. Flagg is a brutal fighter as well. He put a beat down on Vigilante & finished him off by smashing his face into the wall & then slamming him hard into the wall. I loved J'onn kicking Squad butt & how resilient he is, even to being torn apart! If him an Supes ever went at it, I wouldn't be too surprised to see J'onn come out on top. JLU just seems to get better & better w/each episode they air. Can't wait for the "Clash"!
Well, Shining Knight got his armor and sword magically empowered by Merlin in the comics so it makes him a contender. His armor is supposedly bullet proof as well.

[b.t.]

I noted that the story was by Dwayne McDuffie, but the teleplay was by Darwyn Cooke. For those who don't recognize Cooke's name, he was the guy who did the intro sequence to Batman Beyond, and is an excellent comic book creator in his own right. However, he also has some pretty strong opinions about the dark and ugly trends in superhero comics of today (shown in comics format in this one-page story (http://www.comicon.com/pulse/images_05/1solod7.jpg) from one of this year's Free Comic Book Day offerings). Given his opinions, I'm pretty positive that Cooke hated Identity Crisis, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if J'onn's "I'd like to mind wipe him" comment, followed by GL's shock and surprise is an in-joke/dig at IC.

"task force x" was written well over a year ago, LONG before any of us knew anything about the mind-wiping shenanigans in IDENTITY CRISIS....yet another example of more than one creative team pulling raw story material out of the zeitgest at roughly the same time (it happens more often than you would think)...also, j'onn's "wishful thinking" bit originated at the story-break session between dwayne, stan, james and myself, NOT in darwyn's script, whatever his opinions on IDENTITY CRISIS may (or may not) be....fwiw....

[Paul_Cousins]

I definately see Kara questioning what is happening to the league. And I also think that if the League is split it will be more complicated than the two factions fighting each other. Not a simple "Good guys and bad guys" type deal so I don't think it would matter if Superman would fight Kara or not.If the Justice League split, Kara/Supergirl would probably be a 'fence sitter', she's still a immature teenager, not sure what she should do. To be exact, Kara would probably be back at the Kent's farm, where she still lives (as shown at the beginning of the JLU episode "Fearful Symmetry"), talking to Ma and Pa Kent on advice as to what she should do next dealing with the JL split. :cool:

[Spectre]

If the Justice League split, Kara/Supergirl would probably be a 'fence sitter', she's still a immature teenager, not sure what she should do. To be exact, Kara would probably be back at the Kent's farm, where she still lives (as shown at the beginning of the JLU episode "Fearful Symmetry"), talking to Ma and Pa Kent on advice as to what she should do next dealing with the JL split. :cool:

But you realize Clark wouldn't be far behind. If he was worried about Karen, both as a troubled younger cousin and as a potential 'security issue', he would find her and follow her quickly, especially if he was inclined to Lord Superman's train of thought. Plus, he would check up on John and Martha regardless, especially if there's been fallout.

I actually wonder how Supergirl's apparent connection to Green Arrow might affect her judgment in this whole 'Conspiracy' arc. It's plain that Oliver would detest Lord-ism in any form, and if the split were along those lines he would quit the League (though not necessarily to join Batman). Having been on two outings with him now, I think that Karen trusts Ollie quite a bit... she might be more inclined to listen to his line of reasoning.

[raynos]

Well, whether Plastique is dead or alive, she's definitely out of Task Force X for the moment. So, who do you think would be a good replacement for her that would fit into the current team dynamic?

[Harley_Quinn]

A military man following in his fathers footsteps of serving his country. Thats about it really nothing earths shattering about him. He's a regular guy.Rick Flagg Jr's father was a member of the original Suicide Squad along with his mother Karin Grace Simply to do what he is told and lead Task Force X when called upon.Thanks for the info Knight! You always seem to answer a lot of my questions, whether I ask them or not:)

So if he's just a regular guy why did Cap. Boomerang make that comment "this one doesn't need weapons..."

[Trevor Balena]

So if he's just a regular guy why did Cap. Boomerang make that comment "this one doesn't need weapons..."
Because he's one of the most dangerous hand-to-hand combatants in the world. I'm not sure that fully came across in this episode (even though he did take down Vigilante pretty handily)... maybe in a return appearance?

[Knight]

Thanks for the info Knight! You always seem to answer a lot of my questions, whether I ask them or not:) Thanks I have a lot of comicbook knowledge to fall back on I read a lot of DC as a kid.


So if he's just a regular guy why did Cap. Boomerang make that comment "this one doesn't need weapons..."He's a pretty good fighter. I remember in a JLA/Suicide Squad crossover Flagg once fought Batman and held his own fairly good. The fight ended with the JL and Suicide Squad members having to pull the two apart. Batman walked away with a broken ear ( on his cowl of course).

[Kid Eternity]

Well, whether Plastique is dead or alive, she's definitely out of Task Force X for the moment. So, who do you think would be a good replacement for her that would fit into the current team dynamic?
Here are my candidates

Cheetah
Harley Quinn (is she part of the embargo?)
Tsurkuri
Enchantress

[Harley_Quinn]

Thanks I have a lot of comicbook knowledge to fall back on I read a lot of DC as a kid.

He's a pretty good fighter. I remember in a JLA/Suicide Squad crossover Flagg once fought Batman and held his own fairly good. The fight ended with the JL and Suicide Squad members having to pull the two apart. Batman walked away with a broken ear ( on his cowl of course).Lucky for me, the DCAU is mostly my only exposure to DC characters but I love to find out about their comic book origins.

Gotcha, I just thought the comment was referring to some superpower.

[Fone Bone]

But you realize Clark wouldn't be far behind. If he was worried about Karen, both as a troubled younger cousin and as a potential 'security issue', he would find her and follow her quickly, especially if he was inclined to Lord Superman's train of thought. Plus, he would check up on John and Martha regardless, especially if there's been fallout.

I actually wonder how Supergirl's apparent connection to Green Arrow might affect her judgment in this whole 'Conspiracy' arc. It's plain that Oliver would detest Lord-ism in any form, and if the split were along those lines he would quit the League (though not necessarily to join Batman). Having been on two outings with him now, I think that Karen trusts Ollie quite a bit... she might be more inclined to listen to his line of reasoning.Yeah, that's one of the reasons I put her on the anti-league list. The other as already noted was her reaction to Superman wanting to kill Darkseid in Legacy.

Flash is the tricky one to pin down. I DO think that he would DEFINATELY want to join in with the anti-leaguers but I imagine Batman would have him stay put to keep Superman in check (someone else in another thread pointed this out). He's the conscience of the group and if Batman was TRULY worried the league was turning into the Justice Lords he'd want to make sure that Flash was still on it.

Now on a similar topic I'm going to rate the Lord's we saw evilness from what I picked up in A Better World from truly evil to sympathetic.

1. Superman. I got the impression from the episode that it wasn't just Flash's death that pushed him over the edge (was Flash dead by the time he murdered Luthor?). The idea that he was capable of lobotomizing ANYBODY AND be capable of killing our league's Flash showed me how treacherous he had become.

2. J'onn J'onnz. I have no idea why I felt the Lords version of him was so evil. Probably because if there WAS someone to keep Superman in check it would have been him. He also obviously had a high place in Lord hierarchy and MUST have been complicit in many of the Lord's dirty dealings.

3. Wonder Woman. I rank her third even though we didn't see much of her due to the volatile nature of OUR Diana. She almost murdered Toyman in Hereafter and I don't see it a stretch as her having our Diana's temper.

4. Green Lantern. Higher than Hawkgirl only because he was surprised that she was thinking about when the people actually appreciated them.

5. Hawkgirl. True, she cold-cocked OUR GL when he flinched. But her longing for a time when the Lords weren't feared is very illuminating especially considering SHE was probably working undercover for the Thanagarians too.

6. Batman. Only Lorder to renounce his ways and helped the league defeat the others.

Why am I bringing this up in this particular thread? I think the evilness of the Lorders MAY have an indirect influence of which Leaguer goes where if the Outsiders ARE formed. I think the top three will be in the first camp and the bottom three in the second.

[bat313]

Awsome episode!!!! And seeing the Clock King again was a welcome suprise, i love how they go back and get the old voice actors. Even more amazing is how they find such terrific vocie actors to fit the part. Great episode from all aspects and i can't wait to see what continues to happen with Cadmus.

[A.J]

Is CN re running the new episodes sometime??

[Harley_Quinn]

Is CN re running the new episodes sometime??
I don't think so, they used to show them on Sunday afternoon but they haven't done that in a long time, best bet is to record them if you can.

[Willowhugger]

I wonder why Batman is the morality.

[Alex Weitzman]

Okay, despite my college graduation on Saturday, I managed to catch this episode on tape on Sunday. Sorry it's taken so long. :)

There's a lot - a LOT - to like about Task Force X, and I'm not saying that at the forefront as some sort of preemptive apology for later badmouthing. I don't have really any badmouthing to give. As I've said elsewhere, D.R. Movie has easily become the Tokyo Movie Shinsa of Justice League, with absolutely beautiful character animation moments and explosions/clouds of smoke that are, for lack of a less repetitive comparison, TMS-like. The script shifts with ease between the hard-hitting fights and the wonderfully clever dialogue scenes; talky scripts haven't fared as well in the DCAU as action pieces have, but when good wordplay stories like Force show up, they're always a real highlight. Andrea Romano's cast is praised so often that it's practically redundant to even mention it, but compliments must be given to this episode. Alan Rachins returns to a decade-old character without a single stumble; Juliet Landau's practically unrecognizable as Plastique for those who only know her as Drusilla; Carl Lumbly really mines the darker territory of J'onn; and Michael Rosenbaum proves that his Kevin Spacey impression is much, much more than a one-joke character choice. And, as seems to be the case the further we go, the Cadmus conspiracy seems to be getting more illuminated and yet more labyrinthian at the same time.

The reason I've placed all my quickie compliments at the forefront instead of the end, where I usually save such "oh, yeah" mentions, is that I'd like to focus on the element of Task Force X that really gave me the most pause. The phrase "cinematic language" gets thrown around a lot by film folk, but it's not something focused on by most viewers. Despite that, whether you know it or not, it's cinematic language that most often directly correlates to the perception you have about any cinematic work. It's not just a matter of camera angles, or editing, or any one thing like that. It's a whole-package deal. It's cinematic language that makes Teen Titans fun yet oft-times overwhelming, or (to use a non-DCAU example) Schindler's List a stark, documentary-like view of the Holocaust. In the DCAU, Batman: The Animated Series has the distinct advantage of visible versatility in cinematic language over the rest. Pick up Volume 3 and see how The Demon's Quest evokes David Lean's epicness while Avatar evokes Steven Spielberg's thrill rides, despite involving the same kinds of characters and locales.

After B:TAS, everything from Superman to JLU has existed at the same kind of sci-fi/action/comic book sensibility that gives the whole DCAU a more recognizable flair across the board, but also dulls the potential range of the episodes that B:TAS shows much more handily. I am not, however, condemning the rest of the DCAU for having no sense of cinematic language. Just that it's usually a lot more subtle these days, since the other shows can't shift genres like B:TAS could. Still, cinematic language remains TimmCo's most intriguing tool, and when used as insightfully as Task Force X uses it, makes for brain candy that goes above and beyond the confines of just the one episode itself. It is fairly obvious that we are intended by Task Force X to follow the titular group as if they were the goodguys. The idea of reversing the ol' good/evil dichotomy is as old as the hills, but when it's done as honestly as Task Force X does it, it's always welcome.

Have you asked yourself how this episode managed to put you in the place of the Task Force? Consider the pace of the first few scenes, giving you a sense of the charming-rogue persona that Deadshot would come to embody, but mostly a little cold due to Flagg's militaristic approach to the briefing. But they've already subtly started working on you, throwing in quips here and there from the other team members that actually do amuse and, ergo, help you sympathize. These sections of character interaction continue to grow as the episode moves on, giving these villains the same leisure time for interplay we would see if the situation were reversed - if this episode were about goodguys sneaking into a badguy's lair.

And on that topic, consider the structure of the episode, with such classic sneaking-episode scenes as "Oh, no! Main badguy! Will he spot us in close quarters?", "I'm watching out for these random henchmen while you do what we came here to do," and "Damn! While we're escaping, we ran into the big baddie!" There's a silent form of parody at work here. How often have we seen this plot executed in the old-fashioned good-is-good-and-evil-is-evil way? Task Force X seems to be using the standard form of cinematic language for those episodes as a way of mocking it for being so dead obvious. The episode seems to sneer, this plot is so set-in-stone that we could switch the sides and have you rooting for the badguys just as easily.

But then, Task Force X throws you for a loop at the end. Perhaps not everyone felt it - a testament, maybe, to how effective that old formula of the sneaking-in episode is. The sense of cinematic language in the climactic scene with J'onn is at its hugest, framing the Martian as if he were Magneto or something. J'onn's ferocity in the fight with the Force startles, but we've seen him that ferocious before. It's the context that makes it look scary. But then, the Annihilator tears him in two. At that moment precisely, the cinematic language reversed. With that act of extreme violence, this viewer was shaken out of his previous position in the episode and went right back to seeing J'onn as a goodguy again, and I don't think it was a mistake. The cinematic language of the rest of the episode after that plays it the exact opposite way; didn't you feel a sense of hurrah when J'onn took down that Annihilator? Next, Plastique's doing exactly what you know she's not supposed to be doing - coldly threatening Atom Smasher's life. Deadshot just as coldly shoots the bomb. Flagg's last moment in the episode strikes a creepy note, even if it's supposed heroism that he's saying. And the last scene ends with disquiet and uncertainty, as if nothing has been achieved for our sympathies.

In this, Task Force X is the perfect counterpart to The Doomsday Sanction, and the questions of viewer loyalty that it raised. Doomsday made Cadmus more surprisingly relatable than anyone would have guessed, and few walked away from watching it still all that faithful in the League. Here, Task Force X forces that exact same level of odd sympathy with the supposed villains of this show, and aims to see where the viewers end up when it's all over. I think what Task Force X would like us to realize is that it's dangerous to root too much for the villains just because the heroes' PR sucks these days. When it came down to it, the Task Force does not act like a group of heroes in the same situation, and the League is not viewable as wholly evil just by virtue of your point-of-view. It is absolutely frightening when a Leaguer like J'onn J'onzz, seemingly the wisest and most level-headed of the League, wants to do something as drastic as wipe the memory of the traitor within the League's workforce. But before you go losing all hope in J'onn and the League, ask yourself - would Task Force X have hesitated to do it in the same situation?

[thanos28542]

You know, I thought that Plastique was merely injuired at the end of Task Force X, and not killed. Rick's statement only meant that Cadmus has lost the use of one of its operatives - not that said operative is pushing up daisies. After all, J'onn did say "tend to her". Would you say that if the person were dead? :evil:

Merely! As a former Marine (96-04) with combat tours in both Iraq & Afghanistan I know a "little" about what explosives & IED'S can do to a human body & seeing how close Plastique was to the explosion & regardless that CA tried his best to shield her from the blast, I'm more than sure she still suffered some shrapnel wounds, not to mention the blunt trauma from the concussion of the blast. We "tended" to Marines wounded from mine, grenade & IED's blasts & regardless if they were KIA or WIA we "tended" to them. Plastique sounded pretty "F#$@ed up & just cause J'onn said "tend to her" didn't mean she was gonna make it. If we never see her again, then we'll have to assume she is kicking up daisies. They aren't called the "Suicide Squad" for nothing!

[RAINMAN]

If we do she her again she won`t look pretty. She might even try to get back at them for living her for dead. If you ask me deadshot did on purpose just to get back at her for not giving him the digits. I mean,did he really needed to do that in the first place?

[Yojimbo]

If we do she her again she won`t look pretty. She might even try to get back at them for living her for dead. If you ask me deadshot did on purpose just to get back at her for not giving him the digits. I mean,did he really needed to do that in the first place?
Yes, they were about to be captured. J'onn and Captain Atom would have been enough to catch them and GL would have arrived soon after. All they needed was the Annihilator, she was a sacrifice.

[Fone Bone]

Okay, despite my college graduation on Saturday, I managed to catch this episode on tape on Sunday. Sorry it's taken so long. :)

There's a lot - a LOT - to like about Task Force X, and I'm not saying that at the forefront as some sort of preemptive apology for later badmouthing. I don't have really any badmouthing to give. As I've said elsewhere, D.R. Movie has easily become the Tokyo Movie Shinsa of Justice League, with absolutely beautiful character animation moments and explosions/clouds of smoke that are, for lack of a less repetitive comparison, TMS-like. The script shifts with ease between the hard-hitting fights and the wonderfully clever dialogue scenes; talky scripts haven't fared as well in the DCAU as action pieces have, but when good wordplay stories like Force show up, they're always a real highlight. Andrea Romano's cast is praised so often that it's practically redundant to even mention it, but compliments must be given to this episode. Alan Rachins returns to a decade-old character without a single stumble; Juliet Landau's practically unrecognizable as Plastique for those who only know her as Drusilla; Carl Lumbly really mines the darker territory of J'onn; and Michael Rosenbaum proves that his Kevin Spacey impression is much, much more than a one-joke character choice. And, as seems to be the case the further we go, the Cadmus conspiracy seems to be getting more illuminated and yet more labyrinthian at the same time.

The reason I've placed all my quickie compliments at the forefront instead of the end, where I usually save such "oh, yeah" mentions, is that I'd like to focus on the element of Task Force X that really gave me the most pause. The phrase "cinematic language" gets thrown around a lot by film folk, but it's not something focused on by most viewers. Despite that, whether you know it or not, it's cinematic language that most often directly correlates to the perception you have about any cinematic work. It's not just a matter of camera angles, or editing, or any one thing like that. It's a whole-package deal. It's cinematic language that makes Teen Titans fun yet oft-times overwhelming, or (to use a non-DCAU example) Schindler's List a stark, documentary-like view of the Holocaust. In the DCAU, Batman: The Animated Series has the distinct advantage of visible versatility in cinematic language over the rest. Pick up Volume 3 and see how The Demon's Quest evokes David Lean's epicness while Avatar evokes Steven Spielberg's thrill rides, despite involving the same kinds of characters and locales.

After B:TAS, everything from Superman to JLU has existed at the same kind of sci-fi/action/comic book sensibility that gives the whole DCAU a more recognizable flair across the board, but also dulls the potential range of the episodes that B:TAS shows much more handily. I am not, however, condemning the rest of the DCAU for having no sense of cinematic language. Just that it's usually a lot more subtle these days, since the other shows can't shift genres like B:TAS could. Still, cinematic language remains TimmCo's most intriguing tool, and when used as insightfully as Task Force X uses it, makes for brain candy that goes above and beyond the confines of just the one episode itself. It is fairly obvious that we are intended by Task Force X to follow the titular group as if they were the goodguys. The idea of reversing the ol' good/evil dichotomy is as old as the hills, but when it's done as honestly as Task Force X does it, it's always welcome.

Have you asked yourself how this episode managed to put you in the place of the Task Force? Consider the pace of the first few scenes, giving you a sense of the charming-rogue persona that Deadshot would come to embody, but mostly a little cold due to Flagg's militaristic approach to the briefing. But they've already subtly started working on you, throwing in quips here and there from the other team members that actually do amuse and, ergo, help you sympathize. These sections of character interaction continue to grow as the episode moves on, giving these villains the same leisure time for interplay we would see if the situation were reversed - if this episode were about goodguys sneaking into a badguy's lair.

And on that topic, consider the structure of the episode, with such classic sneaking-episode scenes as "Oh, no! Main badguy! Will he spot us in close quarters?", "I'm watching out for these random henchmen while you do what we came here to do," and "Damn! While we're escaping, we ran into the big baddie!" There's a silent form of parody at work here. How often have we seen this plot executed in the old-fashioned good-is-good-and-evil-is-evil way? Task Force X seems to be using the standard form of cinematic language for those episodes as a way of mocking it for being so dead obvious. The episode seems to sneer, this plot is so set-in-stone that we could switch the sides and have you rooting for the badguys just as easily.

But then, Task Force X throws you for a loop at the end. Perhaps not everyone felt it - a testament, maybe, to how effective that old formula of the sneaking-in episode is. The sense of cinematic language in the climactic scene with J'onn is at its hugest, framing the Martian as if he were Magneto or something. J'onn's ferocity in the fight with the Force startles, but we've seen him that ferocious before. It's the context that makes it look scary. But then, the Annihilator tears him in two. At that moment precisely, the cinematic language reversed. With that act of extreme violence, this viewer was shaken out of his previous position in the episode and went right back to seeing J'onn as a goodguy again, and I don't think it was a mistake. The cinematic language of the rest of the episode after that plays it the exact opposite way; didn't you feel a sense of hurrah when J'onn took down that Annihilator? Next, Plastique's doing exactly what you know she's not supposed to be doing - coldly threatening Atom Smasher's life. Deadshot just as coldly shoots the bomb. Flagg's last moment in the episode strikes a creepy note, even if it's supposed heroism that he's saying. And the last scene ends with disquiet and uncertainty, as if nothing has been achieved for our sympathies.

In this, Task Force X is the perfect counterpart to The Doomsday Sanction, and the questions of viewer loyalty that it raised. Doomsday made Cadmus more surprisingly relatable than anyone would have guessed, and few walked away from watching it still all that faithful in the League. Here, Task Force X forces that exact same level of odd sympathy with the supposed villains of this show, and aims to see where the viewers end up when it's all over. I think what Task Force X would like us to realize is that it's dangerous to root too much for the villains just because the heroes' PR sucks these days. When it came down to it, the Task Force does not act like a group of heroes in the same situation, and the League is not viewable as wholly evil just by virtue of your point-of-view. It is absolutely frightening when a Leaguer like J'onn J'onzz, seemingly the wisest and most level-headed of the League, wants to do something as drastic as wipe the memory of the traitor within the League's workforce. But before you go losing all hope in J'onn and the League, ask yourself - would Task Force X have hesitated to do it in the same situation?Wow, awesome analysis even if it shoots to hell my league splitting theory. Yeah, as soon as J'onn was torn in two I didn't know who to root for. As highly praised as BTAS was for some reason even the most sympathetic villians didn't actually have you questioning whether Batman was in the right or not. JLU has had a LOT of episodes where you don't know where ANYONE stands be it obvious as in The Doomsday Sanction where Superman tries to lobotomize Doomsday and later sends him to the Phantom Zone or more subtly like in The Cat and the Canary where anti-metahuman feelings are rampant in society or The Ties That Bind where J'onn is actually shifting the balance of power on Apokalips for the League's best interest and not nessecarily the world's. No easy answers and it makes me want to tune into see what happens more than previous DCAU series' standalone format.

Man, Alex, you are one smart cookie and I'm relieved you saw the episode if only so I would be treated to your excellent analysis.

[Pyro]

I was so happy to see a new episode of JL. It had been so long!
I usually watch the show without knowing what's going to happen, and I'm glad I did because I really enjoyed it. I thought the action was quite enthralling. It was fast-paced and you could feel the impact of a lot of the blows. J'onn seemed extremely powerful when he was punching the Annihilator. I love JL. I'm looking forward to the rest of this season.

I'm aching for a DVD set of the series!

[superpants]

Have you asked yourself how this episode managed to put you in the place of the Task Force? Consider the pace of the first few scenes, giving you a sense of the charming-rogue persona that Deadshot would come to embody, but mostly a little cold due to Flagg's militaristic approach to the briefing. But they've already subtly started working on you, throwing in quips here and there from the other team members that actually do amuse and, ergo, help you sympathize. These sections of character interaction continue to grow as the episode moves on, giving these villains the same leisure time for interplay we would see if the situation were reversed - if this episode were about goodguys sneaking into a badguy's lair.

And on that topic, consider the structure of the episode, with such classic sneaking-episode scenes as "Oh, no! Main badguy! Will he spot us in close quarters?", "I'm watching out for these random henchmen while you do what we came here to do," and "Damn! While we're escaping, we ran into the big baddie!" There's a silent form of parody at work here. How often have we seen this plot executed in the old-fashioned good-is-good-and-evil-is-evil way? Task Force X seems to be using the standard form of cinematic language for those episodes as a way of mocking it for being so dead obvious. The episode seems to sneer, this plot is so set-in-stone that we could switch the sides and have you rooting for the badguys just as easily.

But then, Task Force X throws you for a loop at the end. Perhaps not everyone felt it - a testament, maybe, to how effective that old formula of the sneaking-in episode is. The sense of cinematic language in the climactic scene with J'onn is at its hugest, framing the Martian as if he were Magneto or something. J'onn's ferocity in the fight with the Force startles, but we've seen him that ferocious before. It's the context that makes it look scary. But then, the Annihilator tears him in two. At that moment precisely, the cinematic language reversed. With that act of extreme violence, this viewer was shaken out of his previous position in the episode and went right back to seeing J'onn as a goodguy again, and I don't think it was a mistake. The cinematic language of the rest of the episode after that plays it the exact opposite way; didn't you feel a sense of hurrah when J'onn took down that Annihilator? Next, Plastique's doing exactly what you know she's not supposed to be doing - coldly threatening Atom Smasher's life. Deadshot just as coldly shoots the bomb. Flagg's last moment in the episode strikes a creepy note, even if it's supposed heroism that he's saying. And the last scene ends with disquiet and uncertainty, as if nothing has been achieved for our sympathies.

In this, Task Force X is the perfect counterpart to The Doomsday Sanction, and the questions of viewer loyalty that it raised. Doomsday made Cadmus more surprisingly relatable than anyone would have guessed, and few walked away from watching it still all that faithful in the League. Here, Task Force X forces that exact same level of odd sympathy with the supposed villains of this show, and aims to see where the viewers end up when it's all over. I think what Task Force X would like us to realize is that it's dangerous to root too much for the villains just because the heroes' PR sucks these days. When it came down to it, the Task Force does not act like a group of heroes in the same situation, and the League is not viewable as wholly evil just by virtue of your point-of-view. It is absolutely frightening when a Leaguer like J'onn J'onzz, seemingly the wisest and most level-headed of the League, wants to do something as drastic as wipe the memory of the traitor within the League's workforce. But before you go losing all hope in J'onn and the League, ask yourself - would Task Force X have hesitated to do it in the same situation? i like a lot of this post, especially the part about cinematic presentation of j'onn's bissection, and, while i think that the episode purposely positions the audience with one group of characters, the tradition to which it seems to react isn't the heroic rescue mission/infiltration but the heist. the task force is the usual suspects, from the semi-roguish deadshot to the sternly miliaristic flagg to captain boomerang as a maverick who ultimately submits to an imposing authority to the ruthless demolitions expert, although, given her sexualized interactions with deadshot, plastique is thankfully more attractive than kevin pollack (and probably a better stand-up comedian). the manipulation of genre here, i think, is that this heist is hardly the relatively innocuous property crime common to many heist films (quick change, bottle rocket, ocean's eleven, etc.) or even the more brutal version with plenty of human collateral damage (sexy beast, dog day afternoon, or the genre-bending reservoir dogs). these are really bad dudes and one bad dudette who don't really conjure the same sympathies loaded onto even really violent criminals such as bonnie and clyde or any number of romanticized gangsters or a reluctant appreciation for the youthful cleverness and rebellion and disaffectedness of alex de laarge. this task force is a group of self-serving mercenaries illegally coerced into service by a blindly patriotic fascist, who, in turn, is the puppet of an amoral power monger, who may or may not answer to someone even more nefarious. these people aren't three-musketeers-style charming underdogs trimming a few scraps from bloated wealth but the agents of covert government violence against people (in a broad sense) who have committed no act of aggression toward any government. the u.s. federal government has been the aggressor at every turn in this conspiracry (several illegally made clones, murders, attempted murders, theft, breaking and entering, rejecting everything that i know is in the constitution, etc.), and task force x is one vehicle for further instantiating the exisiting pervasive power structure, not undermining it. flagg et. al. are decidedly nixon and company, not woodward and bernstein, at every turn, except that the task force's success further advances the government's power, reminding us that the league is hardly invincible and that the government may not be as threatened as it purports.

the two instances of the league's misue of power to which people are pointing (banishing doomsday and j'onn's desire to sweep someone's mind) occur only after direct acts of agression by the very government to which the league could theoretically make some legal appeal of the matter. i know that part of the fun of this conspiracy arc is the ambiguity of right and wrong, good and bad, etc. and how the league fits, but, so far, the government has antagonized the league, as powerful as it is, because of just a potential threat. despite its structure, this episode throughout, not just at the end, reinforces the jlu's status as the "good guys," particularly through j'onn's behavior since he doesn't use lethal, or even seriously crippling, force (even in his imposing "monster" form), force to which a normal citizen facing intruders would be entitled (at least in texas). remember, too, that the other leaguers in this episode, especially vigilante, have opportunities to use the same lethal force in which the task force indulges without flinching and on which waller and company depend. and, while the structure of this episode reveals more thoroughly the position and motivations of the "bad guys" (i.e., the anti-league forces), the anxieties of the four conscripted members don't represent a "normal" citizen and don't seem political at all. they simply fear the power, or superpower, (note how they are intimidated by mere mention of j'onn or superman) that impedes their antisocial exploits. presumably, these supercriminals brashly and blithely ignore civilian power since they seem to evade it at will, but their fear of the league in this venture seems comparable to the fear of a kid teasing a rottweiler. the difference is that the league, so far, hasn't lashed out. flagg's motivations (unresolved oedipal issues, rationalized obedience, smug self-satisfaction, unrelfective and self-righteous aggression) make him seem even more unsympathetic than do his methods. oddly enough, this episode maybe suggests that our feelings are most manipulated with respect to waller, who is plenty loathsome in her behavior but who is also fat, ugly, and, since i have to watch my language here, unflatteringly grating and assertive. nonetheless, her motivations seem to be the most complex and, hence, potentially the most sympathetic even though her presentation seems to stack the deck against her in the perception of the audience.

[Paul_Cousins]

the two instances of the league's misue of power to which people are pointing (banishing doomsday and j'onn's desire to sweep someone's mind) occur only after direct acts of agression by the very government to which the league could theoretically make some legal appeal of the matter.Actually, there is also the Justice Lords from the other reality, the beam cannon in the watch tower pointing down to Earth in "Dark Heart" and Hawkgirl's betrayal which almost got the Eartrh destroyed in "Starcrossed" and the JL accepting her back into the League without question (as far as the public knows) all has the DCAU fans questioning the League's eithics (and maybe sanity).

J'onn's desire to mindwipe the traitor and the banishment of Doomsday was just the icing on the cake.

The one thing I think we can all agree with is that there are no angels on either side of this conflict between JLU and Cadmus.


oddly enough, this episode maybe suggests that our feelings are most manipulated with respect to waller, who is plenty loathsome in her behavior but who is also fat, ugly, and, since i have to watch my language here, unflatteringly grating and assertive. nonetheless, her motivations seem to be the most complex and, hence, potentially the most sympathetic even though her presentation seems to stack the deck against her in the perception of the audience.But having the talented CCH Pounder voice Waller really works well for the character, I like her acting in both JLU and The Shield.

Compliments to whoever casted Ms. Pounder as Waller in JLU. :cool:

[Knight]

Actually, there is also the Justice Lords from the other reality, the beam cannon in the watch tower pointing down to Earth in "Dark Heart" and Hawkgirl's betrayal which almost got the Eartrh destroyed in "Starcrossed" and the JL accepting her back into the League without question (as far as the public knows) all has the DCAU fans questioning the League's eithics (and maybe sanity).

Devils Advocate time.Doesnt having a weapon like this make some sense.

Whats wrong with having a beam cannon?

It was very effectivly used in Dark Heart to buy time. Also perhaps if the JLU had already had something like this during Starcrossed Batman wouldnt have had to go on a suicide mission to take out the city size hyperspace bypass. It certainly has its positive uses.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

It was great to see how many normal humans Justice League Unlimited really need to run the place. I wonder if they get payed for it, anyways I can't beleive that just three people from Task Force X had the ability to infatrate the watchtower, where was other superheroes? There was no surprise that Cadmus was involved in some ways, I figured that out from the begining. Nice story plot, and art was good too. :anime:

[Paul_Cousins]

Devils Advocate time.Doesnt having a weapon like this make some sense.

Whats wrong with having a beam cannon?

It was very effectivly used in Dark Heart to buy time. Also perhaps if the JLU had already had something like this during Starcrossed Batman wouldnt have had to go on a suicide mission to take out the city size hyperspace bypass. It certainly has its positive uses.Here are two very good reasons why the JLU have a beam cannon equal the power of a small nuke.

1. In "Dark Heart" there is no chain of command in using the beam cannon. If Jonn want to use it, he uses it by pulling a lever. This is unlike the U.S. and Russia chain of command where there is a 5 person set-up in using a nuke, and each of them has to agree, if one doesn't the nuke does not launch.

If you have seen the movie "Crimson Tide", seen a program on the History Channel about this or have served in the U.S. Navy then you know what I am talking.

Even Cadmus had a 5 person chain of command in chain of command; Waller, the General and the three other people on the sub that launched the nuke in
"Doomsday Sanction".

2. Go watch the Bubblegum Crisis (Anime) OVA episode "Red Eyes", a person could do a LOT of damage to Earth with a weapon like that.

[Devils_Advocate]

Devils Advocate time.
You called?

[Temple Fugate]

1. In "Dark Heart" there is no chain of command in using the beam cannon. If Jonn want to use it, he uses it by pulling a lever. This is unlike the U.S. and Russia chain of command where there is a 5 person set-up in using a nuke, and each of them has to agree, if one doesn't the nuke does not launch.Not to mention Task Force X, had they wanted to, could have possibly gained access to this lever and used it without entering security codes or anything. The government's paranoia about the canon is probably helped by the fact that Vandal Savage recently tried to use a similar space-based projectile weapon to assert his dominance over the planet.

Face it; If you, having never actually met or been saved by any hero, heard that these "super"humans could destroy your entire neighborhood if they so desired with no way of being stopped, wouldn't you be a little frightened? This harkens back to the days of the cold war, where instead of communists, it's superheroes who have who-knows-what kind of technology and superpowers at their disposal, and the government has no idea if it will be able to stop them if they decided to one day attack. We're humans capable of fear and paranoia over things we can't comprehend. Even the argument "Well, most humans should realize the JL have saved Earth countless times. They must be good." doesn't hold up. Maybe, as the government fears, the League was saving Earth because it wants Earth all to itself.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I KNOW it wasn't Nathan after seeing it again. It sounded to me to be Micheal Rosenbaum.

Still can't figure out who voice Shining Knight.

It's also great that Vigilante and Shining Knight finaly get some dialogue. Was that Micheal Rosenbaum who talked for Vigilante?
So Michael Rosenbaum was probably Vigilante? And no ideas on Shining Knight? Maybe b.t. can shed some light on the uncredited cast.


Well, whether Plastique is dead or alive, she's definitely out of Task Force X for the moment. So, who do you think would be a good replacement for her that would fit into the current team dynamic?
I hope Plastique is there in the next episode with Task Force X. If not, is there any chance to have Poison Ivy, call her "Dr. Isley", change her design a bit (I dunno, make her hair a bunch of leaves or something) and not give her any dialogue (I'm mostly kidding)?

[Archangel2385]

Actually, there is also the Justice Lords from the other reality, the beam cannon in the watch tower pointing down to Earth in "Dark Heart" and Hawkgirl's betrayal which almost got the Eartrh destroyed in "Starcrossed" and the JL accepting her back into the League without question (as far as the public knows) all has the DCAU fans questioning the League's eithics (and maybe sanity).

J'onn's desire to mindwipe the traitor and the banishment of Doomsday was just the icing on the cake.



1. What the heck is the big deal with that beam cannon? I just don’t get it. Other countries possess weapons of FAR greater destruction, INCLUDING the US, yet let the superheroes have a weapon like, oh no, it can’t be allowed. Sorry, but that thinking seems ridiculous to me.

2. True, Hawkgirl did betray the Earth and the JL in “Starcrossed.” However, let’s consider some things. One, she is not a citizen of Earth; she is a citizen of Thangar, meaning treason is out of the question. Two, there hasn’t been ANY indication in JLU that any of the world’s nations are looking for and/or want her to stand trial for her crime; it’s like they forgot about her. As such, I say letting the JL rule on the matter was fine.

3. Given the above point, it is the JL’s prerogative as to whether or not they accept her back into the League or not. What’s more, the JLU is an independent entity, so they do not have to listen to the world’s nations if they so choose to (not saying that’s a good thing, just saying that’s the way things are).


Here are two very good reasons why the JLU have a beam cannon equal the power of a small nuke.

1. In "Dark Heart" there is no chain of command in using the beam cannon. If Jonn want to use it, he uses it by pulling a lever. This is unlike the U.S. and Russia chain of command where there is a 5 person set-up in using a nuke, and each of them has to agree, if one doesn't the nuke does not launch.

If you have seen the movie "Crimson Tide", seen a program on the History Channel about this or have served in the U.S. Navy then you know what I am talking.

Even Cadmus had a 5 person chain of command in chain of command; Waller, the General and the three other people on the sub that launched the nuke in

"Doomsday Sanction".

2. Go watch the Bubblegum Crisis (Anime) OVA episode "Red Eyes", a person could a LOT of damage to Earth with a weapon like that.

1. I seriously doubt J’onn just arbitrarily fired the beam cannon without consulting Batman, Superman, or Wonderwoman. You would think that if he just up and fired the beam cannon that many people in the JLU would have been shocked at such action, but no one was. Even Batman didn’t argue with the decision. Appears to me like they supported his decision. Chain of command, possibly not, but popular approval for drastic action (at least among founding members), I’d think so.

2. Your examples of the real-life authorization of the use of nuclear weapons are valid; however, this is not real-life. What’s more, you do realize that, as shown in “Doomsday Sanction,” the U.S. chain of command is pretty much worthless. Cadmus has already bypassed not one, but TWO, branches of the U.S. government. Batman said they bypassed Congress, and then later in the same episode, that general fired a nuclear weapon without any HINT of presidential approval. Not much of a chain of command there.

3. What’s more, even in Cadmus, the chain of command seems worthless as well. That general acted independently of Waller; he fired that nuke on his own, without her prior knowledge. Once again, not much of a chain of command here, and if it is, not a very effective design, wouldn’t you agree?

4. Largo is the man, so naturally he can do whatever the heck he wants to. Yes, he was just THAT DANG COOL :D .




Face it; If you, having never actually met or been saved by any hero, heard that these "super"humans could destroy your entire neighborhood if they so desired with no way of being stopped, wouldn't you be a little frightened? This harkens back to the days of the cold war, where instead of communists, it's superheroes who have who-knows-what kind of technology and superpowers at their disposal, and the government has no idea if it will be able to stop them if they decided to one day attack. We're humans capable of fear and paranoia over things we can't comprehend. Even the argument "Well, most humans should realize the JL have saved Earth countless times. They must be good." doesn't hold up. Maybe, as the government fears, the League was saving Earth because it wants Earth all to itself.

True, we are human beings that fear what we do not understand. It’s just the incredible biasness I have a problem with. Many other nations in the world possess several times the firepower of that beam cannon, especially the U.S., yet Cadmus has a problem with the League wielding such a weapon?! Heck, what guarantee does the world have the U.S. won’t attack some defenseless country with nuclear weapons? None. So why is the JLU treated differently.

The whole thing is pitiful, IMHO. Apparently, negotiation is dead in the JLU universe. The only nation that has problems with the JLU as far as we know is the U.S. If the JLU is such a major potential threat, why not bring this to the UN, talk about it with other world leaders and then go to the JLU & ask them to disband? If they don’t, THEN respond with force. Instead, Cadmus has opted to participate in a great deal of shady and unconstitutional activities in the name of national security, wielding possibly more power than the U.S. government! Self-righteous, hypocritical, biased . . . all of these could be used to describe Cadmus’ attitude towards the JLU.

And Waller says that they wouldn’t stand a chance against the JLU if they tried to take over the world. NEWSFLASH: if Russia decided to launch a full nuclear attack on the U.S. (an attack that we could not hope to stop), we wouldn’t stand a chance either. Sure, we might retaliate in time, but the destruction brought upon us would still be FAR greater than anything the JLU could do. Does that mean we fear Russia, no, so why the JLU? Fortunately, I’ll let all this slide for the sake of a good story.

[PeterFries]

I think this was mentioned in the original talkback, but it was kind of cool to have Captain Atom rush to Plastique after she was (presumably mortally) wounded by the blast, since they were married in the comics.

[DLM]

I've already said most of what I have to say about this episode in other threads. Its a 4.5 star episode to me. I'm just going to post to make 2 points

A. Martian Manhunter is the coolest, always has been always will be, and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, b.t.et.al. for giving him a truly ass-kickin' moment to shine this season, after he was so sedate last season.

B. The thing that really moved this episode up several notches for me, and deserves to be heavily congratulated, is how they really broke out of the standard storytelling mode for this series and did something different. Something a bit wild, a bit experimental. And they did it damn well. It says alot about the quality of the creative minds behind this show that they are willing to go outside the box and do something a bit experimental, and that they pulled it off so well. Now, a story told from the "villians" point of view is not completely original, but it was done perfectly for this series, and is fairly innovative for animated series. It was the perfect off-kilter spin for an episode to follow the more traditionally satisfying and perfectly executed "Doomsday Sanction". These two episodes are really amazing, and the highlight of what may be the best season of pure entertainment produced by b.t.et.al. (short of the 4 part season finale, which is still up and coming, and just might exceed everything imaginable). So congrats to the team for this episode. I've read that they wanted to stretch a bit this season, and if this episode is what they were talking about, the experimentation was a success.

[Batman_Beyonder]

Great episode overall, Especially the fight scene when jonz got split in to two by the crusher...I never thought I would like a jlu episode focusing on bad guys, but this was great...Oh and its also good to see Clock king, I haven't seen him since BTAS and he still looks and talks the same...

[J-Ranger]

Was this episode in widescreen?

[Paul_Cousins]

Was this episode in widescreen?Yes, the episode was shown in widescreen when CN aired it last Saturday night.

[Fone Bone]

i like a lot of this post, especially the part about cinematic presentation of j'onn's bissection, and, while i think that the episode purposely positions the audience with one group of characters, the tradition to which it seems to react isn't the heroic rescue mission/infiltration but the heist. the task force is the usual suspects, from the semi-roguish deadshot to the sternly miliaristic flagg to captain boomerang as a maverick who ultimately submits to an imposing authority to the ruthless demolitions expert, although, given her sexualized interactions with deadshot, plastique is thankfully more attractive than kevin pollack (and probably a better stand-up comedian). the manipulation of genre here, i think, is that this heist is hardly the relatively innocuous property crime common to many heist films (quick change, bottle rocket, ocean's eleven, etc.) or even the more brutal version with plenty of human collateral damage (sexy beast, dog day afternoon, or the genre-bending reservoir dogs). these are really bad dudes and one bad dudette who don't really conjure the same sympathies loaded onto even really violent criminals such as bonnie and clyde or any number of romanticized gangsters or a reluctant appreciation for the youthful cleverness and rebellion and disaffectedness of alex de laarge. this task force is a group of self-serving mercenaries illegally coerced into service by a blindly patriotic fascist, who, in turn, is the puppet of an amoral power monger, who may or may not answer to someone even more nefarious. these people aren't three-musketeers-style charming underdogs trimming a few scraps from bloated wealth but the agents of covert government violence against people (in a broad sense) who have committed no act of aggression toward any government. the u.s. federal government has been the aggressor at every turn in this conspiracry (several illegally made clones, murders, attempted murders, theft, breaking and entering, rejecting everything that i know is in the constitution, etc.), and task force x is one vehicle for further instantiating the exisiting pervasive power structure, not undermining it. flagg et. al. are decidedly nixon and company, not woodward and bernstein, at every turn, except that the task force's success further advances the government's power, reminding us that the league is hardly invincible and that the government may not be as threatened as it purports.

the two instances of the league's misue of power to which people are pointing (banishing doomsday and j'onn's desire to sweep someone's mind) occur only after direct acts of agression by the very government to which the league could theoretically make some legal appeal of the matter. i know that part of the fun of this conspiracy arc is the ambiguity of right and wrong, good and bad, etc. and how the league fits, but, so far, the government has antagonized the league, as powerful as it is, because of just a potential threat. despite its structure, this episode throughout, not just at the end, reinforces the jlu's status as the "good guys," particularly through j'onn's behavior since he doesn't use lethal, or even seriously crippling, force (even in his imposing "monster" form), force to which a normal citizen facing intruders would be entitled (at least in texas). remember, too, that the other leaguers in this episode, especially vigilante, have opportunities to use the same lethal force in which the task force indulges without flinching and on which waller and company depend. and, while the structure of this episode reveals more thoroughly the position and motivations of the "bad guys" (i.e., the anti-league forces), the anxieties of the four conscripted members don't represent a "normal" citizen and don't seem political at all. they simply fear the power, or superpower, (note how they are intimidated by mere mention of j'onn or superman) that impedes their antisocial exploits. presumably, these supercriminals brashly and blithely ignore civilian power since they seem to evade it at will, but their fear of the league in this venture seems comparable to the fear of a kid teasing a rottweiler. the difference is that the league, so far, hasn't lashed out. flagg's motivations (unresolved oedipal issues, rationalized obedience, smug self-satisfaction, unrelfective and self-righteous aggression) make him seem even more unsympathetic than do his methods. oddly enough, this episode maybe suggests that our feelings are most manipulated with respect to waller, who is plenty loathsome in her behavior but who is also fat, ugly, and, since i have to watch my language here, unflatteringly grating and assertive. nonetheless, her motivations seem to be the most complex and, hence, potentially the most sympathetic even though her presentation seems to stack the deck against her in the perception of the audience.Yeah, but as others have noted the League DOES have a few marks against them in the trustworthyness department. I like that Batman is the Leaguer we identify most with as he slowly worries what is happening to them. It's makes sense because he's the character in the DCAU we've spent the most time with and the only one at this point we can basically trust without reservation. Well, maybe Flash too.


So Michael Rosenbaum was probably Vigilante? And no ideas on Shining Knight? Maybe b.t. can shed some light on the uncredited cast. I'm almost postive it was Micheal. I'm guessing Shining Knight was a second voice for one of the guest cast as I didn't recognize it.







You called? I love you Devil's Advocate!





1. I seriously doubt J’onn just arbitrarily fired the beam cannon without consulting Batman, Superman, or Wonderwoman. You would think that if he just up and fired the beam cannon that many people in the JLU would have been shocked at such action, but no one was. Even Batman didn’t argue with the decision. Appears to me like they supported his decision. Chain of command, possibly not, but popular approval for drastic action (at least among founding members), I’d think so.

2. Your examples of the real-life authorization of the use of nuclear weapons are valid; however, this is not real-life. What’s more, you do realize that, as shown in “Doomsday Sanction,” the U.S. chain of command is pretty much worthless. Cadmus has already bypassed not one, but TWO, branches of the U.S. government. Batman said they bypassed Congress, and then later in the same episode, that general fired a nuclear weapon without any HINT of presidential approval. Not much of a chain of command there.

3. What’s more, even in Cadmus, the chain of command seems worthless as well. That general acted independently of Waller; he fired that nuke on his own, without her prior knowledge. Once again, not much of a chain of command here, and if it is, not a very effective design, wouldn’t you agree?

4. Largo is the man, so naturally he can do whatever the heck he wants to. Yes, he was just THAT DANG COOL :D .


Good point.

[superpants]

I think that the other "strikes against the league's trustworthiness" (the big laser cannon, the behavior of the justice lords, the hawkgirl fiasco) don't really count as misuses of power (my original phrase). true, all those issues may make the league seem less trustworthy, but no incredibly powerful body should be trusted implicitly anyway. furthermore, those three issues above are really the misapprehensions of the public than substantial violations of trust. the league is obviously very powerful and had the potential to usurp control of the world before anyone knew that another dimension's league was doing just that, but the argument that another dimension's analogue of the league did something despotic means that the league that we know will do anything like that doesn't hold up. additionally, the big cannon isn't really any more powerful than lots of weapons that governments and even private citizens own or more powerful than the league itself, or just some individual members of the league, and constitutes only a potential threat, not an actual "misuse of power" (unless one wanted to argue that building it in the first place is a misuse of power, which may be a valid argument, especially if one wanted to argue that constructing a league and consolidating so much power is a misuse of power in the first place). and, while hawkgirl may have joined the league under false pretenses, she ultimately betrayed her own homeworld, not earth, since she was as duped about thanagar's actual plans as the league was about her. plus, she couldn't have come to earth foreseeing the creation of a superpowered league, so her motivation to join very possibly grew in part from a genuine altruistic impulse. she, in fact, gave up more to remain on earth and to defend it than anyone else, so that ought to count for something. so, if those things really discredit the league in the public's opinion, it needs a pr agent fast.

by the way, the only actual action of dubious merit (zapping doomsday) might be very popular with a majority of the public since he is actually a big violent monster conditioned to kill. he's made good on whatever implied threat rests with the superpowerful.

of course, i have seen only up through "task force x" and try to avoid spoileers, so maybe something is coming around the bend that will change this argument, but i still think that the league hasn't done anything to seem hostile to the public.

[Vixen]

I'm pretty sure all employees of the Watchtower having to go through a mind-sweep to work there would be considered a HUGE violation of civil rights. A lot of people don't even like to be drug tested. How would they feel if someone could learn that they were a lousy parent or that they were cheating on their spouse?I'm sure that such information, should it be acquired, wouldn't be made public knowledge. (After all, this is a cartoon, so we don't need to make real comparisons:) )The whole point of the mind-scan is to find out if any of the League's secrets (their plans, their weapons, heck, even their secret identities) could be infiltrated & used against them. As I stated earlier, this guy Vance was the only one on the Tower that J'onn couldn't mind read. Isn't that the least bit suspicious? Why was he hired in the first place? To me, it seems as if this is a good (albeit, convenient) excuse for J'onn (or any of them, for that matter) to turn Lord-ish.

[Jordo]

This was a great episode. Everythings been said already, but yeah...

I love the cadmus story. It's really blowing me away. And even when its not blowing me away, it still blows me away, cause its so cool for this show to do this kind of thing.

This was a cool episode to get to know the watchtower, and how it works and how the personnel there do their jobs etc. I like how each episode reveals a bit more of the whole "system" they have going.

Errr which other episode was Deadshot in? I can't remember...I normally only get to watch these episodes once and thats it, so its hard to remember all these people..

"Rick - you're a good soldier, you're father would be proud" -- is there a story behind that?

Anyway this was a great episode...one part of the giant story thats happening. Needless to say I can't comprehend how excited I am about the season (series?!?) finale...



-Jordan

[Fone Bone]

This was a great episode. Everythings been said already, but yeah...

I love the cadmus story. It's really blowing me away. And even when its not blowing me away, it still blows me away, cause its so cool for this show to do this kind of thing.

This was a cool episode to get to know the watchtower, and how it works and how the personnel there do their jobs etc. I like how each episode reveals a bit more of the whole "system" they have going.

Errr which other episode was Deadshot in? I can't remember...I normally only get to watch these episodes once and thats it, so its hard to remember all these people..

"Rick - you're a good soldier, you're father would be proud" -- is there a story behind that?

Anyway this was a great episode...one part of the giant story thats happening. Needless to say I can't comprehend how excited I am about the season (series?!?) finale...



-JordanDeadshot was the masked assasin who tried to kill Aquaman in The Enemy below. He also appeared in costume in Hereafter. This is the first time we've seen him unmasked.

[Knight]

"Rick - you're a good soldier, you're father would be proud" -- is there a story behind that?


Rick's dad was a member of the original Suicide Squad/ Task Force X in the comics as well as The Forgotten Heroes. I assume this to be atleast partially true in the animated series as well.

[Yojimbo]

Deadshot was the masked assasin who tried to kill Aquaman in The Enemy below. He also appeared in costume in Hereafter. This is the first time we've seen him unmasked.
Don't forget the cameos on "only a dream" and "a better world" as well :D

[Thorn]

Redundant though it may be, I'll sing more praises of "the Martian Manhunter's" fighting skills. So nice to see him really strut his stuff after so long. Likewise it's heartening to see the Clock King again. I hope we get a followup on Plastique's status at some point, as well as a glimpse of who fills the vacancy she left behind.

[Paul_Cousins]

I forgot to add, in this episode, on the Lupin (III) scale I would give this heist 9.9 given the characters used in the Task Force X team and the difficulty of the thieft; they basically broke into the main JLU Watch Tower, got what they were looking for and got away. :cool:

I would have given it a solid 10 if all of the members of Task Force X successfully escaped the Watch Tower. :sweat:

[Fone Bone]

Don't forget the cameos on "only a dream" and "a better world" as well :DWhere did he appear in those episodes?

[JSmith]

For anyone who has loved these last couple of episodes with Cadmus and Amanda "the Wall" Waller I suggest checking out John Ostrander's Suicide Squad comic series from back in the 1988's. The run on that book was great! JLU is riffing hard on what was done back then and it's been great so far.

[Harley_Quinn]

For anyone who has loved these last couple of episodes with Cadmus and Amanda "the Wall" Waller I suggest checking out John Ostrander's Suicide Squad comic series from back in the 1988's. The run on that book was great! JLU is riffing hard on what was done back then and it's been great so far.Do you know if they have a trade of that series?

[Legend1203]

Hello all

This was a really good episode. Im in love with Michael Rosenbaum voice and i love him as Deadshot. Im glad to see that even though he's not there as the Flash, he's still there :D

The jons are boardering on creepy, no wait let me correct that .... Jonn Jonz is boadering on creepy. Erasing someones mind... drastic. But what can you so when you have the weight of the world on your shoulders (a world thats not even your own).

Hmm well see what happens with that
:cool:

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Do you know if they have a trade of that series?
Unfortunately, no trades of the Ostrander Suicide Squad comics, but they're not hard to find in quarter bins at your Friendly Neighborhood Comic Book Shop. My personal favorite is "The Phoenix Gambit (http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=47793)" 4-issue story arc, which begins in Suicide Squad #40 and co-stars Batman.

It was rather topical at the time, though, so some of the references to current events may make it seem rather dated today.

-- Ed/Ace

[Yojimbo]

Where did he appear in those episodes?
On "only a dream", he appears in John's fantasy in the beginning but it is only for a second and since I have it on full screen, I only realized it after the ump-tenth time I watched the episode. As for "a better world", its the Arkham scene, but to some its is debatable if that is him appearing but the 'stache is his trademark. Then again I'm still 80/20 sure its him, usually he gets jailed at places like Stryker's or Belle Reve traditionally. Go figure.

[RAINMAN]

I thougth it was funny how deadshot thougth he was homefree and flag beat the crap out of him and told him he belongs to them for 5 years. He deserve it anyway.:mad:

[Ian]

The big problem with having a SOL-01 in the Watchtower is that it's a much more practical weapon than a nuke will ever be. Unlike a nuke, it's precise, fast, far-reaching, well protected and impossible to stop, making it the perfect assasination weapon.

[paulie]

This is the first JLU episode I gave *****. Everything was spot-on in this episode: the tone, the pacing, the dialogue, the facial expressions, the music!...it all just fit together perfectly and was a total blast to watch.

I posted in the YTV talkback that I didn't completely buy J'onn's mindwiping outburst. Well, I understand it now, but I don't like it. At all. To be honest, I'm not totally rooting against Cadmus anymore. I think I'm hoping for a peaceful resolution (oops) to this whole thing, because neither side is very likeable right now, and whatever happens is going to be a complete tragedy and train wreck to watch.

[Wizard]

What happened to Plastique? The way I see it one of three things could have happened: She survived the blast, she died from her injuries sometime later, or the blast killed her outright. It probably isn't the last one, because J'onn told Atom to "tend to her." In the scene with Waller and Flagg, Waller said that she was sorry Flagg lost Plastique. That can be taken one of two ways: she was captured, or she died. Could some kind soul on the creative team provide some clarification on the issue? Thanks!

[theplasticone]

What happened to Plastique? The way I see it one of three things could have happened: She survived the blast, she died from her injuries sometime later, or the blast killed her outright. It probably isn't the last one, because J'onn told Atom to "tend to her." In the scene with Waller and Flagg, Waller said that she was sorry Flagg lost Plastique. That can be taken one of two ways: she was captured, or she died. Could some kind soul on the creative team provide some clarification on the issue? Thanks!

Likely she was just badly wounded by shrapnel (note how her legs are torn up, but the rest of her is okay). Probably won't be walking for a while, and she'll have some scars to brag about. Worse that could happen is amputation. I mean, if the League can afford all those Javelins (not to mention the upkeep on the Watchtower itself, and all the staff), they probably had a crack team of medics somewhere. Just have John bring them back in with his ring. I doubt she bled to death right there on the bridge (the staff would really freak out...)

[RAINMAN]

I dought her leags are the only things that are mess up. Did you see the look on Capt.A face when he looked at her?:(

[Legend1203]

Likely she was just badly wounded by shrapnel (note how her legs are torn up, but the rest of her is okay). Probably won't be walking for a while, and she'll have some scars to brag about. Worse that could happen is amputation. I mean, if the League can afford all those Javelins (not to mention the upkeep on the Watchtower itself, and all the staff), they probably had a crack team of medics somewhere. Just have John bring them back in with his ring. I doubt she bled to death right there on the bridge (the staff would really freak out...)

but you must admit she was seriously hurt. And who's to say that with all the wepons and secrete things in the JLU, that a death will be kept a secrete too. Plus we've seen how dratic Jonn can be..... not to say that it happened, but anything is a possibility.

[RAINMAN]

You cnat really blame jonzz for his anger. The Watch tower was infortrated,it was a inside job, damage was done to the watch tower, 4 memeber were injury, they should dangerious weapon and got away whit it. Plus, jonzz see the WT as a home. How would you fell if someone broke into your home? Atleast John was abile to talk him out of the mind sweaping. What done is done and hes right about one thing....they can`t trusth nobody now.:(

[randomguy]

I totally loved this episode, especially since it managed to reproduce the charm of Ostrander's Suicide Squad so effecitvely. I'll spare everybody the long-winded review, though, because I think pretty much everything has already been said. However...

Anybody else notice we finally got the much-requested Justice League trophy room (http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/taskforcex/Pan04.jpg) in this one? I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a storage facility or a trophy room, but there's definitely a few mementos from previous JL adventures in that room. The ones I recognize are Luthor's power suit from "Injustice For All" and the power disruptor from "A Better World", but I'm sure there are others.

[Nestlé]

Sorry guys, I tried to read through the previous pages to see if someone had already answered it, but I couldn't find it:


Who is Flagg? Does he have some significance in the comics?

[Trevor Balena]

Sorry guys, I tried to read through the previous pages to see if someone had already answered it, but I couldn't find it:


Who is Flagg? Does he have some significance in the comics?
He's pretty much no more than the episode showed him to be. He's a career soldier, assigned to head the Suicide Squad / Task Force X. His father held much the same position in the original Squad decades ago.

[Nestlé]

Thanks TB!!!:D

[Grimlock]

As someone else pointed out, Flagg says Deadshot belonged to the government for 5 years.

So why didn't Cadmus try to use Task Force X in "Divided We Fall"???

I totally expected them to, and i'm disappointed they didn't.

[Knight]

I'm sure Brainthor would have been amused by their effort.Yeah the Task Force is good for certain missions but that was a true suicide one. They lacked the power to be on that playing field.

[Yojimbo]

Yeah the Task Force is good for certain missions but that was a true suicide one. They lacked the power to be on that playing field.
The one difference between the situation laid out in "task force x" and in "divided we fall" is that Clock King (and Cadmus) was collecting intel on the JLU for probably two years (a guess based on how long Vance was there and whatever dates were given).

Given the Brainthor situation was a true suicide mission, I think if Waller hadn't been so convinced by Batman that the founding seven were enough (seeing that she freed the incarcerated six) she would have gone with the Task Force and utterly failed. Then she would have probably learned her lesson and bargained with releasing the core.

[Grimlock]

I'm sure Brainthor would have been amused by their effort.
I meant as another way to attack the league, not lexiac.

[JSmith]

As fantastic as I feel the second season of JLU has been, this is hands down my favorite episode of the season. Darwyn Cooke is a genius! I'm a big fan of Ostrander's Suicide Squad and Cooke just took what was done in that book and ran with it. Always liked villains more than the heroes and it's great to see a bunch of baddies spank the JL for a change. Without great villains you wouldn't have any great heroes. Would Batman be as popular if he didn't have his outstanding Rougue's Gallery? Villains are where all the fun is. Can't say enough good things about this episode. If you haven't already, check out Cooke's comic book work. Truly inspiring stuff. Way better than what's on tv or at the theater these days.

[Grimlock]

Even though by that point Waller was working with the League...?
By what point? I never specified a time in my posts.

In the 4-parter, Waller she sent in the ultimen and galatea to take on the league, so why not task force x? Or at least have them create a sabotage or something.

I am sure they could have served SOME purpose, since they obviously couldn't go manhandle a hundred superheroes.

[Yojimbo]

I am sure they could have served SOME purpose, since they obviously couldn't go manhandle a hundred superheroes.
Well, I think in the situation of the Task Force, their missions are strictly covert. Only when the mission changes does the Force get free reign. Attacking the Watchtower and Luthor/ Brainiac is a more direct plan that someone like Galatea (and to an extent if he weren't a single minded killing machine) Doomsday. In the future I think another covert capacity they can serve potentially is as moles. Next season speculation Since Clock King is supposedly in the Legion of Doom next season, either he already served his five years or he is acting as a mole in order to collect intel in a later effort by the government to suppress the LOD if the JLU fail

[Grimlock]

You specified "Divided We Fall," the fourth part of the finale. Right here... By that time, Waller and the League were working together. Watch the episode again.Apparently i mispoke. I meant the 4-part season finale.



Ok, now I'm sure you're thinking of "Panic in the Sky," the third part of the finale. And the TFX would have been useless in that episode. Yes well, the third part would be included in the 4-part finale, now wouldn't it?

And i don't think they would have been useless at all. The JLU writers are creative, they could have thought up a way to use them appropriately.



Galatea did that.
Um, but i think task force x could have done that. I'm pretty sure i've made that abundantly clear in my posts. Maybe Galatea could have led a different operation, or struck at the league from elsewhere.

And i wouldn't call what Galatea did a sabotage, hers was more of a direct attack.

Hence me saying task force x could have done a sabotage, implying something undercover.



Well, they didn't. And the episodes were written almost a year ago, so it's not worth complaining over.Uh...i'm allowed to my opinion, thanks.

And funny, the talkbacks all over this board are from episodes written many years ago, yet people still complain.

Maybe you should go harp on them instead.

[Grimlock]

Yeah, well "Task Force X" is one of my favorite episodes and I like it more than most people on this board. In fact, I hyped it as being better than "Doomsday Sanction" before it aired, and almost no one agreed with me. And you don't see me complaining about their absence.
Just because you didn't feel a need to complain, why should that prevent me from doing it?

I think animal cruely is wrong, but i'm not joining PETA. Other people can do that.



Never said you weren't. It's just that the episode isn't going to change now and so many other people have talked about how they wished Task Force X had appeared in the episode. Essentially, they would have taken away from the main focus of the episode. The episode is about 21 minutes and packed to the brim with characters and events. It just wouldn't be feasible to add tem in.
Um, i didn't see "so many other people" complaining about hte lack of task force x, hence why i brought it up in the first place.



Oh well. It's fine to voice a complaint, but I don't see a reason for yours.

So because you don't see a reason for it, i'm not allowed to complain?

Gosh, i didn't think that mattered. I'll be sure to consult you next time i make a post so that you can look for the point in it.




I'm really interested in a plot point you might have come up with that involved the TFX and could be organically placed into "Panic in the Sky." And I'm not being sarcastic either.
Okay, how about, since waller knows who batman is, she sends them to infiltrate the batcave?

How about they use the clock king's connection to go find that guy who invented the time-stopping device and use that to take out the league?

How about Waller had already distrusted luthor so she sent them to break into Luthor's lab to see what he was up to?

There was plenty they could have done, use your imagination.

[ROBOTRON]

Top notch episode....it was nice to see Temple Fuget again...that guy rules. JLU cartoon has turned out some winners and this is one of them. The entire Cadmus series, Ultimatum, Epilogue and this one.

[fantastic 7]

"Task Force X" is my absolute favorite episode of JLU. The plot and fight scenes were all awsome. My favorite part though: Jonn kicked ass. That line when task force x came into the monitor room was bad ass:D (it was something like: Are you sure being here with me is what you REALY want) Then he just wipped the humans and put up a good fight against the armor...it was just awsome.:D

[James]

Mr Grim and Mr GMahler: Getting the feeling that differences in opinion are giving off a bad thread vibe. Grimlock mate, you need to cool down a bit. Perhaps best if you both took the dialogue to PMs as I think it's getting a little uncomfortable for others. Appreciate it.

[sdp]

Pretty good episode. The Cadmus plot gets more and more interesting. I'll tell ya what: seeing the Clock King was like: ALRIGHT FINALLY A BAT-CHARACTER THAT HASN'T BEEN TAKEN BY THE BAT-EMBARGO. But...

God, I miss the rest.... *breaks down and cries*:crying:
the clock king is not an actual batman villian, i'm pretty sure he is a green arrow villian, so that is why he was able to escape the embargo.

[Doomsday]

the clock king is not an actual batman villian, i'm pretty sure he is a green arrow villian, so that is why he was able to escape the embargo. Well JLU can use Batman villians, as long as they are not being used by another show or movie. So the Sewer King and a few others can still be used for JLU, but dang as long as we can see the Sewer King again I'll be happy.:D

[Fone Bone]

Well JLU can use Batman villians, as long as they are not being used by another show or movie. So the Sewer King and a few others can still be used for JLU, but dang as long as we can see the Sewer King again I'll be happy.:DI'm personally waiting for Boss Biggis. Now THERE'S a credible threat for the entire league.:D

[Yojimbo]

I'm personally waiting for Boss Biggis. Now THERE'S a credible threat for the entire league.:D
I know how you feel, personally I thought Nivens so should have been on Task Force X instead of Clock King. :anime:

[Fone Bone]

I know how you feel, personally I thought Nivens so should have been on Task Force X instead of Clock King. :anime:"I had to do it! The Flash is such a boorish slob!":D

[James Harvey]

Included on the Justice League: The New Fronter - Two-Disc Special Edition DVD (feature talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=206337), DVD talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=206338)), there's no better time to discuss this episode!


http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/taskforcex/11.jpg

Episode #17 - Task Force X
Original Airdate - May 21st, 2005


Five incarcerated super villains are offered suspended sentences if they can survive an impossible mission: steal a deadly weapon from the Justice League’s satellite headquarters.

Comments?

[Bobbywoodhogan]

This is a superb episode, I love the fact that the villains take centre stage in this and it did not disapoint 4.5 out of 5