Bah! I can't BUH-LEEVE I was so naive!

[Gygax]

I've like japanese animation for a while now, but I never actually bought anything, so last week my brother and I went to this store that opened recently. It seemed like a pretty good store, they sold lots of games, comic books, and also japanese things like DVDs, wallscrolls, and CDs. It never occured to me the prices were actually low and why they were selling so many subtitled anime. However, I did know about the regions and when I asked the guy if the subs would run on an english DVD player he said something akin to, "Duhhh, they should." So I just shrugged it off and I ended up buying the Read or Die OVA while my brother bought the Nadia movie and a CD, later he bought the subtitled One Piece movie and another CD.
All the products were fine except for Read or Die which had some video problems. Then I started to notice things that didn't seem right like how One Piece had terrible subs plus the DVD cases were of poor quality and had funny similarities, so I looked on the internet. After reading about buying japanese products it turned out that the things we bought were bootleg!
Anyway, earlier this week we took back everything we bought. fortunately they gave us our money back, but not before giving me this bull about how the prices can be so low and somehow what they're doing is "legal" and able to sell things like that here. Needless to say, we promptly went to another store and purchased things from people who were more deserving of our money.

[The Wolverine]

It's technically not legal for stores to sell bootleg anime. However, most of the Japanese companies either don't care, or are not willing to file any lawsuits.

[Riza Hawkeye]

They probably gave you your money back because they didn't want you reporting them, you know.

[Gygax]

Beau99: It wasn't just the subs, they were selling bootlegged English versions of Nadia and Read or Die among other licensed anime.

Riza: I'm not sure if they'd really care if I told on them or not. Unless she was lying, the woman I talked to got really defensive and seemed so conviced that was they were doing was legal. She even said that it would illegal for them to sell outside of the country, so I think they might be taking advantage of some legal loophole.

[Ben]

Either that or she's aggressively stupid. Which a lot of pirates are.

[Riza Hawkeye]

Either that or she's aggressively stupid. Which a lot of pirates are.
I'd say she's ignorant to the point of stupidity. Selling bootlegs, inside or outside of the country, is illegal.

[Weatherman]

Bootlegs are illegal, period. Doesn't matter where you are, if you bought or in some way obtained at copywrighted product without paying the copywright holder for it, it's an illegal bootleg. I say send all the anime companies an email, and definately the MPAA and the major studios if you see any hollywood stuff in there. I'm sure Disney would to have a go a tthem.

[Gygax]

You guys are probably right about them just being stupid. But are people really that stupid that they would openly sell bootlegged merchandise, with their only excuse being, "It's legal for us"? Or maybe they thought that they'd never be caught since they're far away from the main population.

Bootlegs are illegal, period. Doesn't matter where you are, if you bought or in some way obtained at copywrighted product without paying the copywright holder for it, it's an illegal bootleg. I say send all the anime companies an email, and definately the MPAA and the major studios if you see any hollywood stuff in there. I'm sure Disney would to have a go a tthem. I was originally going to report them anyway, but I wasn't sure who I should report them to. Thanks for the advice.

[Spastic Minnow]

Everything's bootlegged? Are some just the cheap region free import versions? I have a couple of those. The kind with decent packaging and like 26 episodes or so on 3 discs. The discs are more cheaply made (the two I have both have a couple subtitle problems) but I don't think there's anything illegal about them. If you buy a complete collection of a series from an Amazon.com marketplace seller and the price seems rediculously cheap than that's what they're probably selling.

...or I'm wrong and these "imports" really are bootlegs and I don't know it.

Or they're selling fansubs. A place I know rents fansubs... actually they'll give a free rental of a fansub with a rental of a regular title. Nice place.

[rubberchicken]

You guys are probably right about them just being stupid. But are people really that stupid that they would openly sell bootlegged merchandise, with their only excuse being, "It's legal for us"? Or maybe they thought that they'd never be caught since they're far away from the main population.

Believe me, there is no bottom to the depths that pirates will troll in order to justify their actions. These range from the simple "wouldn't you rather have it for free?" to "They're overpriced and I'll never afford it, so it's OK" to "they're overpriced, so obviously (company) DESERVES it" to "It's not that good, so obviously they deserve it" to "They didn't try hard enough to prevent copying, so they deserve it" to "I'm really doing the companies a favor!" to "Piracy is my God-given democratic right to express my displeasure with a company's policies" and on and on and on...

And these are from people who tell everyone they know about their piratical madness - people who brag about it, in fact. So yeah, I'd say people can be that stupid.

[Gygax]

Everything's bootlegged? Are some just the cheap region free import versions? I have a couple of those. The kind with decent packaging and like 26 episodes or so on 3 discs. The discs are more cheaply made (the two I have both have a couple subtitle problems) but I don't think there's anything illegal about them. If you buy a complete collection of a series from an Amazon.com marketplace seller and the price seems rediculously cheap than that's what they're probably selling.

...or I'm wrong and these "imports" really are bootlegs and I don't know it.

Or they're selling fansubs. A place I know rents fansubs... actually they'll give a free rental of a fansub with a rental of a regular title. Nice place. Actually, not everything is bootleg. They do sell American things and I'm sure some of the anime is legit. At first glance one might think the subs are imports but when we bought the DVDs (one sub, two dub) it turned out they were released by Manga International and Anime Cartoon which according to this site, http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html are notorious bootleggers.

Believe me, there is no bottom to the depths that pirates will troll in order to justify their actions. These range from the simple "wouldn't you rather have it for free?" to "They're overpriced and I'll never afford it, so it's OK" to "they're overpriced, so obviously (company) DESERVES it" to "It's not that good, so obviously they deserve it" to "They didn't try hard enough to prevent copying, so they deserve it" to "I'm really doing the companies a favor!" to "Piracy is my God-given democratic right to express my displeasure with a company's policies" and on and on and on...

And these are from people who tell everyone they know about their piratical madness - people who brag about it, in fact. So yeah, I'd say people can be that stupid hehe, after I wouldn't believe her about it being legal, she said the exact same thing again and even tried some of those on me. :sweat:

[Weatherman]

Everything's bootlegged? Are some just the cheap region free import versions? I have a couple of those. The kind with decent packaging and like 26 episodes or so on 3 discs. The discs are more cheaply made (the two I have both have a couple subtitle problems) but I don't think there's anything illegal about them. If you buy a complete collection of a series from an Amazon.com marketplace seller and the price seems rediculously cheap than that's what they're probably selling.

...or I'm wrong and these "imports" really are bootlegs and I don't know it.

Or they're selling fansubs. A place I know rents fansubs... actually they'll give a free rental of a fansub with a rental of a regular title. Nice place.
No, those are bootlegs too. No stadrad release would normally have that many eps on a disc. They're probably Hong Kongs.

[guinaevere]

No, those are bootlegs too. No stadrad release would normally have that many eps on a disc. They're probably Hong Kongs. Definately they are.

The impact that illegal bootlegs/IPR violations has on our economy (and in imported product such as anime, countries such as Japan as well) is unprecedented. Estimates from 2000 show a loss of $45 billion to our economy (this isn't government losses, it's OURs... the workers). A loss of 109,000 jobs in 1999 in just the software business alone.

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to contact someone at say, Geneon Legal (re: ROD) about the shop, including their location.

Bootlegs are a big problem. Those of y'all who like to save a couple bucks by buying HKs or other cheapies are only hurting your own economic circumstances indirectly.

Couple of (http://www.techlawjournal.com/crime/20001228exc.asp) quick sources (http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/060203sb.html) if ya want to check my facts for yourself.

[rrznn]

whats a bootleg? (don't know, yes im a idiot)

[beren]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=define%3A+bootleg&btnG=Search

It is a term from the 30's you should learn about it in your US History class.

[Scythemantis]

whats a bootleg? (don't know, yes im a idiot)

It's an unauthorized copy of something. Anything, really. Movies, videogames, software, toys, books. If it exists without permission from the copyright holders, it's a bootleg, which technically includes even the stuff you record off TV with a VCR.

[Weatherman]

Definately they are.

The impact that illegal bootlegs/IPR violations has on our economy (and in imported product such as anime, countries such as Japan as well) is unprecedented. Estimates from 2000 show a loss of $45 billion to our economy (this isn't government losses, it's OURs... the workers). A loss of 109,000 jobs in 1999 in just the software business alone.

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to contact someone at say, Geneon Legal (re: ROD) about the shop, including their location.

Bootlegs are a big problem. Those of y'all who like to save a couple bucks by buying HKs or other cheapies are only hurting your own economic circumstances indirectly.

Couple of (http://www.techlawjournal.com/crime/20001228exc.asp) quick sources (http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/060203sb.html) if ya want to check my facts for yourself.
Personally, I have my own issues with the "official" numbers of stuff like this, but it's still a problem none the less. Never buy bootlegs or Hing Kongs of stuff you can buy officially over here, no matter how much it might cost. It's just not cool to rip off the people who make the product you're enjoying like that.

[rrznn]

that's what i thought. i thought that it had a different definiton here.

[AstroNerdBoy]

It's an unauthorized copy of something. Anything, really. Movies, videogames, software, toys, books. If it exists without permission from the copyright holders, it's a bootleg, which technically includes even the stuff you record off TV with a VCR.
Except that the Supreme Court ruled that recording stuff off TV was legal and that just because the VCR could be used to make illegal copies didn't make the technology evil. Of course Big Entertainment has never gotten over that ruling despite the additional billions it made them.

[Draven]

Except that the Supreme Court ruled that recording stuff off TV was legal and that just because the VCR could be used to make illegal copies didn't make the technology evil. Of course Big Entertainment has never gotten over that ruling despite the additional billions it made them.Actually, recording of ANYTHING, including TV, movies, music, conversations, is completly legal. As long as you enjoy the recording for yourself. You can let your friends borrow them. Your friends can let their parents borrow them. You can mail the recording to your friend in Alaska. You can exchange recordings with complete strangers. You can let the Director of FLCL watch your recording of his show off Cartoon Network just for the hell of it. It's all legal. You can even tape movies off pay-per-view, or movies you rented, and not feel a shred of guilt.

Once you start SELLING recordings for profit do you step into unlawful territory. THAT is a bootleg. Hell, South Park got it's whole start when people made copies of "The Spirit Of Christmas" and sent them to friends. Since no exchange of money was involved it was all cool.

[Artimus Gigan]

Definately they are.

The impact that illegal bootlegs/IPR violations has on our economy (and in imported product such as anime, countries such as Japan as well) is unprecedented. Estimates from 2000 show a loss of $45 billion to our economy (this isn't government losses, it's OURs... the workers). A loss of 109,000 jobs in 1999 in just the software business alone.

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to contact someone at say, Geneon Legal (re: ROD) about the shop, including their location.

Bootlegs are a big problem. Those of y'all who like to save a couple bucks by buying HKs or other cheapies are only hurting your own economic circumstances indirectly.

Couple of (http://www.techlawjournal.com/crime/20001228exc.asp) quick sources (http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/060203sb.html) if ya want to check my facts for yourself.
If you go down to NYC any given day of the week there are street vendors with tables upon tables of bootleg movies, music, games, etc.

Heck they had Star Wars Episode III on bootleg DVD BEFORE it was even out in theatres...

[AstroNerdBoy]

Actually, recording of ANYTHING, including TV, movies, music, conversations, is completly legal. As long as you enjoy the recording for yourself. You can let your friends borrow them. Your friends can let their parents borrow them. You can mail the recording to your friend in Alaska. You can exchange recordings with complete strangers. You can let the Director of FLCL watch your recording of his show off Cartoon Network just for the hell of it. It's all legal. You can even tape movies off pay-per-view, or movies you rented, and not feel a shred of guilt.
But you can't make a copy of what you recorded legally.

Anyway, Big Entertainment has been desperately trying to prevent us from using VCR's or DVR's to record stuff in HDTV (as you may or may not know, in a few years we Americans will be forced to convert to HDTV or not be able to watch). They bought some senators and one told the FCC that they didn't need congress to make a rule forcing makers of HDTV receivers to have a chip to set a broadcast flag. So Big Entertainment could prevent you from recording a show or movie if they so chose. They threatened to not produce stuff for HDTV (which we'd still be able to see on HDTV sets, but it wouldn't be in that awesome High Definition quallity, which those of you who've seen true HDTV conent know is awesome).

Fortunately a Federal Appeals Court ruled against Big Entertainment (http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/HDTV/).

Once you start SELLING recordings for profit do you step into unlawful territory. THAT is a bootleg. Hell, South Park got it's whole start when people made copies of "The Spirit Of Christmas" and sent them to friends. Since no exchange of money was involved it was all cool.
I remember this and find it ironic. It was Hollywood-types (who scream about people trading movies, videos, and TV series online) who were making illegal copies and trading them.