Kids WB dropping weekday strip?!?

[Burgundy Ranger]

Yesterday's clarification that YuGiOh GX wasn't going to be on Kids WB was a little odd, seeing how well the original is doing. Well, this might be part of the reason why:

from Cynopsis: Kids:

Rumors that The WB has been considering shifting out of its M-F Kids' WB! programming have been circling for over a year. So what's new? Reliable sources now tell Cynopsis: Kids! that this time it may actually happen: There has been talk with key affiliate groups, and there's a potential start date of 1st qtr 2006. CynKids contacted the network via phone and email yesterday and at press time had not received a response. Reportedly the network has been taking the temperature of some of its biggest and arguably most influential affiliate station groups, including Tribune, Acme and Sinclair, about replacing the Kids’ WB! M-F (3-5p) with Warner Bros. off-net programming to compliment the stations’ M-F (5-7p) lineups. No change in The Kids' WB Saturday morning block (8a-12n), except for the possibility of expanding it by an hour or so. Our sources say that Tribune, Acme and Sinclair have agreed to the change for Jan 2006, and presumably the network is in ongoing discussions with other station groups. It goes without saying the depth of the WB library can support just about any demo according to station needs and thus provide affiliates with a steady build into their evening blocks. It also goes without saying there is an enormous upside in potential revenue for both affiliate stations and the network with WB off-net programming in lieu of kids programming in early fringe. More on this as it becomes available.

-----

Wow. Again, it's all about the Benjamins. The Fox affiliates made the same type of noice that resulted in the Fox Kids weekday block a few years ago. That was the pre-cursor of Fox getting out of Kids altogether (opting to lease the time to 4Kids), but I don't see that happening with WB. Their Saturday is just too strong.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

And there you have it folks. The death of weekday afternoon cartoons outside of cable. We've fallen so far since Disney Afternoon haven't we?

On the bright side this could mean CN could air some good programing 3-5PM because KWB wont be harking on them not to. So maybe Miguzi could move earlier and Toonami could get a bit of weekdays love. But that's about all the good that can come from this. It's a huge blow to animation in America and it inevitably means more Saturday morning shows ending up on CN. So much so that they might need another channel just to fit them all.

[Conan-san]

Now all that remins is for the sky to glow red and be filled with eyes and for your RSI to scrunch into a little ball.

and if you don't get that reff, you'll get this one.

That's it man, game over, man! Game over!

[Rabi~en~Rose]

this is real bad it really weakens the chances of any cartoon to become super huge big mega hits :( :( they need a place to re-run and not on cable :( CN better be allowed to get Pokemon back

[Fone Bone]

Wow, now where am going to catch two hours of Pokermon and Yu-Gi-Oh?:rolleyes:

[Zero-V]

this is real bad it really weakens the chances of any cartoon to become super huge big mega hits
Outside mainstream anime by 4Losers?

We need LESS of that...besides, name ONE show not named Teen Titans that is even remotley good on that block?

[Fone Bone]

Outside mainstream anime by 4Losers?

We need LESS of that...besides, name ONE show not named Teen Titans that is even remotley good on that block?I agree. This isn't exactly the death of The Disney Afternoon or Toonami.

[Jon Hanson]

this is real bad it really weakens the chances of any cartoon to become super huge big mega hits :( :( Frankly, I think the world could use less "super huge big mega hits" like Pokemon and Yugioh.

[MattThomasM2B]

Now all that remins is for the sky to glow red and be filled with eyes and for your RSI to scrunch into a little ball.
End of Matrix Online beta.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

I said cartoons....

like TMNT could have been had it been stripped on KidsWB

[vegetable]

What a surprise. Terrestrial affiliate stations have been against kids programming now since the late 90s mainly thanks to FCC mandated advertising restrictions on kids programming. Blocks like Fox Kids have ended up not playing on stations because they would rather play run-of-the-mill syndicated programs and be able to sell more advertising space. Right now, 4Kids TV doesn't air on any station where I live.

[maximumzero]

End of Matrix Online beta.

Uh, pics?

[Yash]

Good.

I mean, what a waste of time. "HEY KIDS, IT'S TIME FOR THE FIFTIETH RUN OF YU-GI-OH!"

Saddens me that Pokemon isn't going to get a complete run now (not starting from Johto or whatever - unless CN brings it back), but meh. The bad outweighs the possibility.

[Peter Paltridge]

this is real bad it really weakens the chances of any cartoon to become super huge big mega hits :( :( they need a place to re-run and not on cable :( CN better be allowed to get Pokemon backI agree. I also agree Kids WB's current weekday is a total rerun wasteland waste, but cutting it altogether is baaad. I've pointed out before that the one main thing every majorly successful kids' TV series has in common is that they found their success when they ran more often than once a week. Kids need to see the characters every day--it's the only way they can truly get involved. We saw this with Yu-Gi-Oh and Spongebob--they only truly caught on when they were seen every day. If this is abandoned, there will never be another popular TV show for kids. It's loads more important than they realize!

[Rook]

sigh...
oh well, we still have cable.

but, if i didnt know any better, id say this was a push for cable subscribing.

anyone expecting a terminator ending to our society?

[Anthonynotes]

Ah, I recall the glory days of Kids' WB... "Animaniacs"... "Pinky and the Brain"... "Heavy Duty Dubbas" (S:TAS/B:TAS/TNBSA). Nowadays, I hardly find much reason for tuning in (what Fone Bone said), but the thought of cutting the whole lineup just to air "upscale lucrative" programming like infomercials, reruns of "Seinfeld," "Texas Justice" and "Elimidate" doesn't particularly excite me.

Plus, I don't have cable---which would leave even fewer resources for cartoons than I have already (at this point, weekday morning reruns of "Garfield and Friends," whatever's on PBS, and maybe the off-chance ABC/WB runs something vaguely interesting on Saturday mornings ["Scooby Doo" and sporadically "Mucha Lucha" being about it nowadays for me...esp. since NBC yanked "Kenny the Shark"]).

[Wanted]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
And there you have it folks. The death of weekday afternoon cartoons outside of cable. We've fallen so far since Disney Afternoon haven't we?

On the bright side this could mean CN could air some good programing 3-5PM because KWB wont be harking on them not to. So maybe Miguzi could move earlier and Toonami could get a bit of weekdays love. But that's about all the good that can come from this. It's a huge blow to animation in America and it inevitably means more Saturday morning shows ending up on CN. So much so that they might need another channel just to fit them all.I do believe that this is good news for Cartoon Network, also. Miguzi could pump it up an hour (possibly for an extention [to allow more shows]) from 4 to 7. I don't see any room for Toonami in that getup, though. If Miguzi is bumped two hours (which is basically time when some kids are still at school), then ratings will go down. If Miguzi gets another hour, then there will be more of a chance for new shows and ratings garners.

But, I'm sure Cartoon Network's fine with 5-7 for Miguzi.

[RSNaco]

Outside mainstream anime by 4Losers?

We need LESS of that...besides, name ONE show not named Teen Titans that is even remotley good on that block?
Xiaolin Showdown. So many people overlook it, yet it's a great story.

[CyberCubed]

Terrible news, Pokemon Advance needs to be stripped.

The older pokemon series has been rerun to death, but it'll be a shame if kids won't be able to catch reruns of Pokemon Advance.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Ya know what... There actually isn't much to air on weekdays at this point.

Mega Man is dead for sure. As is the majority of 4kidsTV and ex-Fox Box shows.

KWB's Saturdays are a joke now and they'll be worse in Fall. None of the shows will make it except maybe Loonatics and CN will air that one for obvious reasons.

This means Pokemon will air on CN again. 4kids will make sure of that.

Still don't know whats up with Shaman King. It may never get a weekday run. A pitty... as it's 4kids best dub.

So that leaves these somewhat successful shows that CN could pick up because Viacom and Disney aren't affiliated with them

Sonic X
Mew Mew
Doremi
GI-Joe Sigma Six (though I bet it tanks like Transformers and He-Man)
Xiaolin Showdown
Loonatics
And uh... I think that's it

CN already is airing YGO, TMNT, Winx Club, The Batman and One Piece.

I wouldn't like to see CN become a haven for Saturday morning crap but it looks like that may be the case.

This doesn't affect the majority of us much but think about the poor saps who don't have cable at all. Guess they'll have to get used to watching sitcoms and talk shows.

Actually I don't think airing something like Miguzi at 3PM will hurt the ratings. Plenty of kids are home by then. It's teenagers that are home after 3PM usually.

Weekdays have gone to crap entirely I guess... But its true this is nowhere near the loss of Disney Afternoon, Toonami or even Fox Kids.

[Merilee]

Why does this not surprise me?

However the only glimmer of light I see at the end of this tunnel is the part where they say they might extend Sat mornings on KIDS WB to an extra hour! So there WILL be room for Scooby!!

That's the only happy point I see in this..
Merilee
:cool:

[Zero-V]

Xiaolin Showdown. So many people overlook it, yet it's a great story.

...Do you do stand-up?

[RonDrakenfan17]

I hope Cartoon Network picks up Pokemon Advance and reruns it from the beginning so we can catch all of the episodes so far, not that some of them are impressive lol. Also wouldn't mind it if Cartoon Network's adult swim picked Yugioh in uncut form, people can dream sigh.

[Conan-san]

...Do you do stand-up? Not as good as you do, buddy. Let's not start this again.

[RayChuang]

I think this could open the door for Cartoon Network to start up a third cable network channel besides the original CN and Boomerang! for cartoon programming.

I can foresee CN becoming mostly CN original programming, a new network running programming they buy from other sources, and Boomerang! running mostly old Hanna-Barbera, MGM and (here's hoping!) old Filmation programming! :anime:

[Zero-V]

Not as good as you do, buddy. Let's not start this again.
Relax, sense of humour is important

[Wanted]

This doesn't affect the majority of us much but think about the poor saps who don't have cable at all. Guess they'll have to get used to watching sitcoms and talk shows.Don't remind me!


Actually I don't think airing something like Miguzi at 3PM will hurt the ratings. Plenty of kids are home by then. It's teenagers that are home after 3PM usually.Yeah, but is that logical? 3p Eastern Time is 2p Central Time, and deeper still, 1p Mountain Time (if that applies).

Even if Kids' WB! Weekdays doesn't exist doesn't mean it's just automatically time to bump up Miguzi two hours. After all, doesn't 5p ET, 4p CT, and 3p MT sound a bit more logical than the formerly stated 3p, 2p, 1p combo? Plus, when we're talking about ratings, 5p, 4p, 3p is more logical for gaining ratings that is 3, 2, 1p.

[Merilee]

I can foresee CN becoming mostly CN original programming,
I thought that's what it already was.



a new network running programming they buy from other sources,
That we can finally get on basic cable instead of a dish?


and Boomerang! running mostly old Hanna-Barbera, MGM and (here's hoping!) old Filmation programming! :anime:
That everyone can get, not just the few and privilaged?
Merilee
:cool:

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Don't remind me!

Yeah, but is that logical? 3p Eastern Time is 2p Central Time, and deeper still, 1p Mountain Time (if that applies).

Even if Kids' WB! Weekdays doesn't exist doesn't mean it's just automatically time to bump up Miguzi two hours. After all, doesn't 5p ET, 4p CT, and 3p MT sound a bit more logical than the formerly stated 3p, 2p, 1p combo? Plus, when we're talking about ratings, 5p, 4p, 3p is more logical for gaining ratings that is 3, 2, 1p.
Logically perhaps... but it never hurt before.

[Mighty_Bojingo]

Don't remind me!

Yeah, but is that logical? 3p Eastern Time is 2p Central Time, and deeper still, 1p Mountain Time (if that applies).

Even if Kids' WB! Weekdays doesn't exist doesn't mean it's just automatically time to bump up Miguzi two hours. After all, doesn't 5p ET, 4p CT, and 3p MT sound a bit more logical than the formerly stated 3p, 2p, 1p combo? Plus, when we're talking about ratings, 5p, 4p, 3p is more logical for gaining ratings that is 3, 2, 1p.
Dont forget to factor in the time it takes for kids to get from 'school' to 'home'. Some kids get out of school at 2, some 2:30, and some at 3. So for those who get off at 3, it may take a good 30 min. for them to get home causing them to miss the first show. But hey, regardless what time it starts, VCR's are very important and apparantly never used much.:sad:

[Burgundy Ranger]

Logically perhaps... but it never hurt before.
3:00 worked on Kids WB and the old Fox Kids because the block was set up so that it ran at 3:00 local time in the Mountain and Pacific time zones.

I dunno if CN has a seperate West Coast feed but that still puts it at 1:00 Mountain.

[Yash]

I thought that's what it already was.Wrong. Most of their Toonami and Adult Swim shows are acquisitions, as well as some general CN (Yu-Gi-Oh, Totally Spies!, Winx Club, Atomic Betty, most of the movies)...

[Jeff Harris]

To say that I'm surprised by the rumors (and that is the key word at this time) of the end of Kids' WB's afternoon block is an overstatement. I mean, The WB ended its morning strip many years ago. The WB basically handed almost all aspects of Kids' WB from ad sales to promotions to Cartoon Network a couple of years ago, and the "big two" cable channels dominate for the kids' eye sockets, which Kids' WB never really capitalized on, though they tried *cough*Kids' WB's Toonami afternoon facelift*cough*.

With no real broadcast competition (PBS's PBS Kids block doesn't count), Kids' WB's afternoon stagnated. Competition makes the industry grow and makes each other churn out a strong block. The creation of Kids' WB was, in hindsight, the best thing to happen to Fox Kids. Of course, by buying The Family Channel, Fox Kids kind of shot itself in the foot, but that's another story. When Fox Kids left weekday afternoons, Kids' WB got really lazy, creating a lineup of nothing but reruns with the rare new episode airing real early in the block.

If the rumors are indeed true about Kids' WB ending its weekday strip, it will be a sad day in America. I won't cry for them too much because, unlike Fox's syndicated 4KidsTV block, Kids' WB will have a place to advertise for their block. Yeah, we'll see the inevitable KWB ads all over Cartoon Network. I'm almost curious if the Kids' WB name will continue, especially if Cartoon Network gets more control of the block in the future.

If one thing's certain, Cartoon Network will be a definitive victor if the rumors are true. The fact that a new Yu-Gi-Oh series is premiering exclusively on Cartoon Network means that companies like 4Kids are looking to bring original properties to cable. They have this one show coming on Nickelodeon in the fall, I believe. Also, if Kids' WB expands by an hour, they need to take the 12 PM hour, which used to be Saturday morning domain before college sports took it over in the mid-90s. Hopefully, they won't waste the hour on just Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh.

Still, 2006 does end an era of broadcast television that grew from the growth of syndication in the '80s and the end of afterschool specials to the creation of Fox Kids in 1990 to the birth of UPN Kids and Kids' WB in 1995. It was a grand era.

[Gokou Ruri]

Xiaolin Showdown. So many people overlook it, yet it's a great story.
*Points to avatar* ;) Excellent choice, XS is my favorite show Kids WB has to offer.

[Zero-V]

*Points to avatar* ;) Excellent choice, XS is my favorite show Kids WB has to offer.
It's cheesy and laughable

See, how do you like it when someone randomly attacks your show for no reason in a thread that did'nt call for bashing?

Oh yeah, it's ON now...

[Natey]

im glad this happened it helped CN i dont like just about any show on the WB except like TT. sat. mornings are trash *remembers when i wuz a kid and watched the good mornings* its also hard to believe yu gi oh is a good show *i need this one card to beat these pixels! I BELIVE IN MY DECK! YES I GOT IT! to me thats stupid (so stupid i do it at school) so its good im my point of view

[Gokou Ruri]

It's cheesy and laughable

See, how do you like it when someone randomly attacks your show for no reason in a thread that did'nt call for bashing?

Oh yeah, it's ON now... Do I know you? :confused:

[Merilee]

Wrong. Most of their Toonami and Adult Swim shows are acquisitions, as well as some general CN (Yu-Gi-Oh, Totally Spies!, Winx Club, Atomic Betty, most of the movies)...Sorry, sorry, my bad.




Also, if Kids' WB expands by an hour, they need to take the 12 PM hour, which used to be Saturday morning domain before college sports took it over in the mid-90s. Hopefully, they won't waste the hour on just Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh. I hope not. I'm sorry, really. But both Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are already airing twice. Get another cartoon in there *cough- Scooby Doo- cough*
Merilee
:cool:

[Jave]

I hope not. I'm sorry, really. But both Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are already airing twice. Get another cartoon in there *cough- Scooby Doo- cough*
Merilee
:cool:Kids WB doesn't have the rights to air Scooby Doo.

[Burgundy Ranger]

I think she means "What's New, Scooby-Doo?" to which Kids WB does have the rights -- it's just not on their schedule right now.

[Anthonynotes]

Actually, without KWB, for most cities it's the end of the era of weekday afternoon children's programming *period*---a staple of American television since the 1950's. Hmph.

Oh, well... I'm sure getting to see Maury Povich guests debate "who's baby's daddy?" or infomercials will be worth the loss... </sarcasm>

-B.

[Natey]

Actually, without KWB, for most cities it's the end of the era of weekday afternoon children's programming *period*---a staple of American television since the 1950's. Hmph.

Oh, well... I'm sure getting to see Maury Povich guests debate "who's baby's daddy?" or infomercials will be worth the loss... </sarcasm>

-B.
that kind of makes me sad. i wish like fox did that because that have atleast some desecent shows

[Jave]

I think she means "What's New, Scooby-Doo?" to which Kids WB does have the rights -- it's just not on their schedule right now.Yeah, that's true. But "What's New..." was removed because there aren't any new episodes to air. If the show gets renewed for one final season then it will be placed back on.

[Wanted]

Dont forget to factor in the time it takes for kids to get from 'school' to 'home'. Some kids get out of school at 2, some 2:30, and some at 3. So for those who get off at 3, it may take a good 30 min. for them to get home causing them to miss the first show. But hey, regardless what time it starts, VCR's are very important and apparantly never used much.:sad:Yeah, there is that factor. For the walkers, it takes from 1 minute to 12 minutes to get home, and bus riders get at least 20 minutes (takes me about 23). But, yes, I do use a VCR when it's required (I record Xiaolin Showdown on weekdays; on Mondays, I time the show and watch it when I get home).

*Points to avatar* ;) Excellent choice, XS is my favorite show Kids WB has to offer.Me, too. I wish they'd bring it to home video, since it has proven itself even more successful that What's New, Scooby-Doo?, which has about 5 volumes out (while Xiaolin has none!).

[Gary L Thompson]

To say that I'm surprised by the rumors (and that is the key word at this time) of the end of Kids' WB's afternoon block is an overstatement. I mean, The WB ended its morning strip many years ago. The WB basically handed almost all aspects of Kids' WB from ad sales to promotions to Cartoon Network a couple of years ago, and the "big two" cable channels dominate for the kids' eye sockets, which Kids' WB never really capitalized on, though they tried *cough*Kids' WB's Toonami afternoon facelift*cough*.

With no real broadcast competition (PBS's PBS Kids block doesn't count), Kids' WB's afternoon stagnated. Competition makes the industry grow and makes each other churn out a strong block. The creation of Kids' WB was, in hindsight, the best thing to happen to Fox Kids. Of course, by buying The Family Channel, Fox Kids kind of shot itself in the foot, but that's another story. When Fox Kids left weekday afternoons, Kids' WB got really lazy, creating a lineup of nothing but reruns with the rare new episode airing real early in the block.

If the rumors are indeed true about Kids' WB ending its weekday strip, it will be a sad day in America. I won't cry for them too much because, unlike Fox's syndicated 4KidsTV block, Kids' WB will have a place to advertise for their block. Yeah, we'll see the inevitable KWB ads all over Cartoon Network. I'm almost curious if the Kids' WB name will continue, especially if Cartoon Network gets more control of the block in the future.

If one thing's certain, Cartoon Network will be a definitive victor if the rumors are true. The fact that a new Yu-Gi-Oh series is premiering exclusively on Cartoon Network means that companies like 4Kids are looking to bring original properties to cable. They have this one show coming on Nickelodeon in the fall, I believe. Also, if Kids' WB expands by an hour, they need to take the 12 PM hour, which used to be Saturday morning domain before college sports took it over in the mid-90s. Hopefully, they won't waste the hour on just Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh.

Still, 2006 does end an era of broadcast television that grew from the growth of syndication in the '80s and the end of afterschool specials to the creation of Fox Kids in 1990 to the birth of UPN Kids and Kids' WB in 1995. It was a grand era.
Actually, without KWB, for most cities it's the end of the era of weekday afternoon children's programming *period*---a staple of American television since the 1950's. Hmph.

Oh, well... I'm sure getting to see Maury Povich guests debate "who's baby's daddy?" or infomercials will be worth the loss... </sarcasm>

-B.So, it looks like a return to the days of the 1970s, when weekday syndicated children's programming were made up of either leftovers from the 1960s TV animation explosion (the eternal “Looney Tunes”, King Features “Popeye”, “Mister Magoo”, "Flintstones", "The Jetsons", "The Alvin Show", "Bullwinkle Show", "Marvel Superheroes", "Kimba", "Speed Racer", "Thunderbirds", "Deputy Dawg", "Magilla Gorilla", etc.) or the rare SatAM cartoon that achieved episode count ("Underdog", cobbling together all the Filmation series on DC Comics heroes, etc.).

Well, everyone seems to forgetting the one on-air kids block that would be remaining--DIC Kids. If rumors of the KWB weekday demise would prove to be the case, the opportunity is there for DIC to beef up its lineup and make a move both mornings and afternoons weekdays. Unfortunately, DIC Kids hasn’t made an impression while going on two years now of existence, and there’s little in its history to suggest that will change in the future. Look, when CN suddenly canceled “Sailor Moon”, DIC made little effort to get it back on the air elsewhere before losing its license from Toei; it was unsuccessful in keeping “Speed Racer”/“Speed Racer X” or “Knights of the Zodiac” on the air (nor tried to air these shows on its own network); and it hasn’t tried to import shows from France, Canada or anywhere else in the world. It hasn’t produced any hits of its own. It hasn’t partnered with another animation provider like 4Kids, BKN, etc. to beef up its library of available shows (given the disaster of its marriage with Disney, maybe that’s understandable). It hasn’t even brought back the real gems in its vast library of shows from its golden days of the 1980s. Whatever the reason is, DIC hasn’t shown real signs of recovering from its days of captivity under Disney.

Ironically, I think the seeds of the decline of the 1980s weekday programming boom came about in the very formation of Fox Kids, followed by Disney Afternoon/Disney One Two, Kids WB, and the bulldog network BKN Kids. In retrospect, programmers were basically throwing everything at the wall in hopes that something would stick in the 1980s syndicated market. You had everything from serious drama to silly comedy to soft and cute, programming aimed primarily at girls before it was cool, programs targeting the older teen/young adult market to preschool, and frantic action to sitcom. Once the network heads started taking over channel lineups, this variety gave way to a stultifying sameness in efforts to target a single demographic, ending in serious interference with the scripting of the shows themselves.

However, I think it is premature to deliver the eulogy and spade the final clump of dirt on weekday kid’s blocks as of yet. There’s still one pretty major player out there yet to be reckoned with--4Kids. Right now, they’re pretty much boxed in as far as fully exploiting their Saturday network on Fox stations. They really have no place to rerun or even first-run their longer-running shows on weekdays except Kids WB and CN. If Kids WB goes, that will really crimp the chances of the next “Ultraman Tiga” or “Pirates’ Island” they air from becoming the next “Power Rangers”. Only on Kids WB does 4Kids have a realistic chance of stripping a hit SatAM live-action show into weekday reruns, it can’t do the same with shows on “4Kids TV” because Cartoon Network obviously can’t air live shows. As Rabi-en-Rose and Martianinvader pointed out, no weekday blocks weakens chances of any network coming up with megahits, dimming 4Kids TV's survival prospects long-term. If nothing else, 4Kids will be unable to program slots for any more than 16 shows at a time, even assuming that they are going to put their shows into every SatAM time slot on KidsWB and 4Kids TV (which of course we know they won’t). So I would think that the lure would be almost overwhelming for 4Kids to ramp up its weekday syndication, if not expand 4Kids TV outright over the rest of the week, should weekday Kids WB disappear. If not now, then when? Only DIC Kids and PBS Kids would be offering any over-the-air competition in the early morning and late afternoon weekday blocks. Even the competition from basic cable would not be that strong. ABC Family has pretty much abandoned the late-afternoon kids block market, networks like USA, Sci-Fi and Hallmark have aired animation in the past, but apparently have thrown in the towel for at least the immediate future. Which leaves Cartoon Network, Disney Channel and Nickelodeon on basic cable (channels like Toon Disney, Boomerang, the family of Nick channels, and STARZ/Encore's WAM are largely limited to the digital tiers). True, CN will likely now ramp up Miguzi rather than defer to KWB competition anymore, but still, the market would likely be as wide open for the next "Pokemon" megahit as its going to get.


Ah, I recall the glory days of Kids' WB... "Animaniacs"... "Pinky and the Brain"... "Heavy Duty Dubbas" (S:TAS/B:TAS/TNBSA). Nowadays, I hardly find much reason for tuning in (what Fone Bone said), but the thought of cutting the whole lineup just to air "upscale lucrative" programming like infomercials, reruns of "Seinfeld," "Texas Justice" and "Elimidate" doesn't particularly excite me.

Plus, I don't have cable---which would leave even fewer resources for cartoons than I have already (at this point, weekday morning reruns of "Garfield and Friends," whatever's on PBS, and maybe the off-chance ABC/WB runs something vaguely interesting on Saturday mornings ["Scooby Doo" and sporadically "Mucha Lucha" being about it nowadays for me...esp. since NBC yanked "Kenny the Shark"]).It was affiiliate pressure to air "upscale lucrative" programming that doomed the original weekdays Fox Kids. Unfortunately, what affiliates fail to take into account is that there are no, or at most one or two, competing stations that would be competing for the audience of a KWB or Kids Fox. Other stations are already airing "upscale lucrative" programming, so even granting that WB would have a strong library of shows to help its affiliates, they're still struggling for an audience that's already being split up a half dozen ways. Like I pointed out before, if 4Kids could come up with another "Pokemon" (the last such hit in the independent syndicated market) to anchor a weekday block, it would be picking up an audience that it would largely have pretty much to itself.



What a surprise. Terrestrial affiliate stations have been against kids programming now since the late 90s mainly thanks to FCC mandated advertising restrictions on kids programming. Blocks like Fox Kids have ended up not playing on stations because they would rather play run-of-the-mill syndicated programs and be able to sell more advertising space. Right now, 4Kids TV doesn't air on any station where I live.Might have known meddling by government regulators had something to do with it. Without accompanying regulations setting aside some portion of the 7-9 a.m. and 3-5 p.m. weekday and 8 a.m.-1 p.m. Saturday blocks strictly for kids blocks, couldn't these bozos figure out that the effect of such regulations would tend toward killing this type of programming off altogether?

[Zyzzybalubah]

Actually, without KWB, for most cities it's the end of the era of weekday afternoon children's programming *period*---a staple of American television since the 1950's. Hmph.

Oh, well... I'm sure getting to see Maury Povich guests debate "who's baby's daddy?" or infomercials will be worth the loss... </sarcasm>

-B.
That is very sad. I'm in Chicago, so my city's kids will have that problem. :P

I guess for those kids without cable they will:
A.) Grow up to be very physical. They get sick of reruns of live action shows and talk shows that they play outside and participate in activities, maybe people are forcing TV to do that. :D

B.) Grow up with more raunchy behavior. With all those Jerry Springer, Jenny Jones, and Maury viewings, as well as the foul language of sitcoms (not trying to sound like a parent but it's true), they have no real alternatives.

C.) Be very boring. They don't like outdoor activities and they don't like what's on TV. Pile on the homework for these kids. :P

Well, I'm not being too serious with those scenarios. :p But yeah, I know that I would hate things more if there was no cable and I was kid.

Bummer for those kids. As if Saturday Morning Cartoons weren't as good as they used to be, this now happens.

[Burgundy Ranger]

DIC Kids exists solely to provide E/I-compliant programming to UPN, WB and Fox affiliates that don't receive an FCC-friendly block from their network. It's a wise move on DIC's part to provide a one-stop shop to keep the feds off their back.

[Anthonynotes]

>>

So, it looks like a return to the days of the 1970s, when weekday syndicated children's programming were made up of either leftovers from the 1960s TV animation explosion (the eternal “Looney Tunes”, King Features “Popeye”, “Mister Magoo”, "Flintstones", "The Jetsons", "The Alvin Show", "Bullwinkle Show", "Marvel Superheroes", "Kimba", "Speed Racer", "Thunderbirds", "Deputy Dawg", "Magilla Gorilla", etc.) or the rare SatAM cartoon that achieved episode count ("Underdog", cobbling together all the Filmation series on DC Comics heroes, etc.).


Actually, it's worse than that----as I said before, the current situation would mean (for most cities) the complete death of children's programming on weekday afternoons entirely.

Differences in 70's broadcasters from today's:

1. Less competition from cable (which extremely few homes had in the 70's).

2. Greater access to a variety of shows to rerun, an actual existence of syndicated programming for kids, and a greater amount of freedom in deciding to do so for individual stations. Back then, there wasn't nearly the media concentration there is today, and so if, say, a station in Chicago decided to rerun "The Flintstones", they were free to do so. Now, thanks to the various corporate mergers of the 90's (Time-Warner, Disney, etc.), the only place to see Fred and Barney is on something Time-Warner owns (Cartoon Network, TNT, Boomerang, etc.)---and if Time_Warner decides it isn't worth running those shows, then thanks to not offering them in syndication, you won't get to see them again *anywhere*.

Media consolidation IMO has had a much greater effect on children's programming than anything the FCC's done (they had tighter regulation of ads in the 70's, but that didn't affect the programming available as much as complaints about violence, etc.). Though granted I'm not in favor of the "30 minute infomercial that doesn't announce itself as such" for kids ("Pokemon", etc.)...

3. Back then, there wasn't as much first-run syndicated adult programming (and no stupid trends like judge shows or dating shows, "The Dating Game" aside)---so stations would've aired children's shows to fill out airtime.

4. Related to (3), no stupid "mini-networks" like the WB or UPN to eat up the number of independent stations and its air time---the main sources of weekday afternoon children's programming in the 50's-80's.

5. Being the 70's, I suppose there weren't as many shows produced by that point as there is now to draw from (1975: 20 or so years' worth of television programming to choose from, vs. 2005 having *50* years' worth).

Thus, for the time being, it looks like kids' TV is all but dead on weekdays if KWB pulls out...

Only thing I could think of that *might* change things for broadcast TV's diversity in general (for adult programming *and* kids shows) might be HDTV: with each station allowed to have several digital "subchannels", they might need more programming to air...which *could* include children's shows (note I said *could*: more likely, stations will just use one subchannel for 24-hour news, and another 24-hour subchannel for infomercials/home shopping...).

-B.

[Merilee]

>>

Actually, it's worse than that---B.

Please, there ARE still some people here that DO like the 70's cartoons better than cartoons of today.




>>
--as I said before, the current situation would mean (for most cities) the complete death of children's programming on weekday afternoons entirely.
-B.
Not having had cable untol the 90's myself, I can sympathise. So sad...





>>
Back then, there wasn't nearly the media concentration there is today,
-B.
That's because cartoons were diferent back then, there was no ratings box, no adult innuendo, ad hardly a lot of violence. If there was there was cartoonish violence like in Bugs Bunny which every little kid knows can't happen in real life. Nothing too scary or graphic.



>>
Now, thanks to the various corporate mergers of the 90's (Time-Warner, Disney, etc.), the only place to see Fred and Barney is on something Time-Warner owns (Cartoon Network, TNT, Boomerang, etc.)---and if Time_Warner decides it isn't worth running those shows, then thanks to not offering them in syndication, you won't get to see them again *anywhere*.
-B.

Let's hear it for the corporate world of today everybody! :p


>>
Media consolidation IMO has had a much greater effect on children's programming than anything the FCC's done (they had tighter regulation of ads in the 70's, but that didn't affect the programming available as much as complaints about violence, etc.). Though granted I'm not in favor of the "30 minute infomercial that doesn't announce itself as such" for kids ("Pokemon", etc.)...
-B.

Hear, hear!!! At least in the 70's you hardly had that!


>>
3. Back then, there wasn't as much first-run syndicated adult programming (and no stupid trends like judge shows or dating shows, "The Dating Game" aside)---so stations would've aired children's shows to fill out airtime.
-B.
Definitely true. I swear, if I see another Maury show 'Are you my Baby's Daddy...' There's so many of them it scares me! THIS is why I don't do that stuff!


>>
4. Related to (3), no stupid "mini-networks" like the WB or UPN to eat up the number of independent stations and its air time---the main sources of weekday afternoon children's programming in the 50's-80's.
-B.

Well, the WB DID bring back Scooby Doo...so I can't complain too much about THEM!



>>
Only thing I could think of that *might* change things for broadcast TV's diversity in general (for adult programming *and* kids shows) might be HDTV: with each station allowed to have several digital "subchannels", they might need more programming to air...which *could* include children's shows (note I said *could*: more likely, stations will just use one subchannel for 24-hour news, and another 24-hour subchannel for infomercials/home shopping...).
-B.

And that costs HOW much...just out of curiousity...

Merilee
:cool:

[Gary L Thompson]

>>

So, it looks like a return to the days of the 1970s, when weekday syndicated children's programming were made up of either leftovers from the 1960s TV animation explosion (the eternal “Looney Tunes”, King Features “Popeye”, “Mister Magoo”, "Flintstones", "The Jetsons", "The Alvin Show", "Bullwinkle Show", "Marvel Superheroes", "Kimba", "Speed Racer", "Thunderbirds", "Deputy Dawg", "Magilla Gorilla", etc.) or the rare SatAM cartoon that achieved episode count ("Underdog", cobbling together all the Filmation series on DC Comics heroes, etc.).


Actually, it's worse than that----as I said before, the current situation would mean (for most cities) the complete death of children's programming on weekday afternoons entirely.


Differences in 70's broadcasters from today's:

1. Less competition from cable (which extremely few homes had in the 70's).

2. Greater access to a variety of shows to rerun, an actual existence of syndicated programming for kids, and a greater amount of freedom in deciding to do so for individual stations. Back then, there wasn't nearly the media concentration there is today, and so if, say, a station in Chicago decided to rerun "The Flintstones", they were free to do so. Now, thanks to the various corporate mergers of the 90's (Time-Warner, Disney, etc.), the only place to see Fred and Barney is on something Time-Warner owns (Cartoon Network, TNT, Boomerang, etc.)---and if Time_Warner decides it isn't worth running those shows, then thanks to not offering them in syndication, you won't get to see them again *anywhere*.

Media consolidation IMO has had a much greater effect on children's programming than anything the FCC's done (they had tighter regulation of ads in the 70's, but that didn't affect the programming available as much as complaints about violence, etc.). Though granted I'm not in favor of the "30 minute infomercial that doesn't announce itself as such" for kids ("Pokemon", etc.)...

3. Back then, there wasn't as much first-run syndicated adult programming (and no stupid trends like judge shows or dating shows, "The Dating Game" aside)---so stations would've aired children's shows to fill out airtime.

4. Related to (3), no stupid "mini-networks" like the WB or UPN to eat up the number of independent stations and its air time---the main sources of weekday afternoon children's programming in the 50's-80's.

5. Being the 70's, I suppose there weren't as many shows produced by that point as there is now to draw from (1975: 20 or so years' worth of television programming to choose from, vs. 2005 having *50* years' worth).

Thus, for the time being, it looks like kids' TV is all but dead on weekdays if KWB pulls out...

Only thing I could think of that *might* change things for broadcast TV's diversity in general (for adult programming *and* kids shows) might be HDTV: with each station allowed to have several digital "subchannels", they might need more programming to air...which *could* include children's shows (note I said *could*: more likely, stations will just use one subchannel for 24-hour news, and another 24-hour subchannel for infomercials/home shopping...).

-B.Actually, in the early 1970s, cable was much different from today, which I had the opportunity to experience personally. My grandparents in Pennsylvania had cable TV (where cable TV had first been invented in the late 1940s), and it was installed at college in mid-Michigan shortly after I got there around 1975-1976. In those days, the sole purpose of cable was pretty much to improve substandard reception (western Pennsylvania was mountainous, and around Jackson, Michigan, an antenna could only pick up one station in Jackson and one in Lansing, two stations with blurry reception from Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo--unfortunately on the same CBS and NBC networks as the local stations--and a faint signal from a UHF ABC station from Battle Creek). I remember reading articles in TV Guide in the 1970s about the wretched time that cable was having making progress in big cities like New York, even with the FCC removing many of its previous restraints on cable. The thing that really revolutionized cable, and made it a staple in about every municipality across the nation, occured about the middle of the decade when HBO put its signal on satellite, leading to a number of cable TV networks springing up overnight through the rest of the 1970s and 1980s.

I have to agree that the death of local ownership of broadcast stations and cable systems has had a stulifying effect on diversity of entertainment pretty much across the board. I'm afraid if measures are not taken to keep the digital subchannels out of the hands of the media megagiants, things aren't going to change much.




Please, there ARE still some people here that DO like the 70's cartoons better than cartoons of today.


I'm afraid you rather missed the point I was trying to make. In the context, we were comparing to the 1970s to today in terms of dearth of original cartoon shows. I have to ask, exactly WHAT '70s cartoons were you referring to? Like or dislike, outside of Saturday morning, they didn't exist. To my knowledge, the only new cartoons released to afternoon syndication were "Star Blazers" (which never came to my area) and "Battle of the Planets", which came out only at the end of the decade (I'm not counting minor hits like "The Mouse Factory" or "Wait Until Your Father Gets Home", because they were not intended for kids in the afternoons, but made for prime-time audiences). I didn't reel off all those examples of shows running in the 1970s for the purpose of deriding them (in fact, many happen to be favorites that I likely would enjoy watching today), but to demonstrate the point that the 1970s weekday kids programming was essentially surviving on the fumes of the 1960s animation golden age (not even "Scooby Doo" and "Super Friends" hit weekday syndication until after the decade was over). Can anybody else name even one other show that was first-run in afternoon syndication in the 1970s?



Hear, hear!!! At least in the 70's you hardly had that!Your point is undeniable--and led directly to the state of affairs I described above. It was not until toy companies started financing "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe", "Transformers", and "G.I. Joe" that we started seeing new kids shows made on the level of the 1960s and the 1990s through today.

Look, I'm not denying there's a downside to this. You can have a very popular and entertaining show, but it ends up getting canceled anyway because the merchandise sales tank. And when Charles Schulz accused these cartoons of being "cold creations", he was not totally imagining things. On the other hand, creation out of nothing is a divine act, on the human level there is only subcreation out of existing materials. If a great cartoon (and any other creative work) needs a starting point for inspiration, who cares if the inspiration just happens to be commercial in origin? It's only a problem if the maker of said item is only concerned about making a quick buck, and hires an animator that couldn't care less about the concept or the quality of the cartoon.



Definitely true. I swear, if I see another Maury show 'Are you my Baby's Daddy...' There's so many of them it scares me! THIS is why I don't do that stuff!

Merilee
:cool:
Finally, something we are 100 percent in agreement on! Incidently, in commentary on that earlier shot at court shows, I actually liked the early epsiodes of "The People's Court" with Judge Wapner, I saw the trend as a valuable corrective in teaching the public how courts really work instead of years of blantant distortion by Hollywood. Of course, that was before that was before the producers quit caring about cases centering around the preponderance of the evidence, and instead started parading the same dregs of humanity in their courtrooms that Oprah, Jerry Springer and Maury Povich had been exploiting to great profit....(sound of gnashing teeth):mad:

[Anthonynotes]

Hmm... first, responding to Gary's remarks:


Actually, in the early 1970s, cable was much different from today, which I had the opportunity to experience personally. My grandparents in Pennsylvania had cable TV (where cable TV had first been invented in the late 1940s), and it was installed at college in mid-Michigan shortly after I got there around 1975-1976. In those days, the sole purpose of cable was pretty much to improve substandard reception (western Pennsylvania was mountainous, and around Jackson, Michigan, an antenna could only pick up one station in Jackson and one in Lansing, two stations with blurry reception from Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo--unfortunately on the same CBS and NBC networks as the local stations--and a faint signal from a UHF ABC station from Battle Creek). I remember reading articles in TV Guide in the 1970s about the wretched time that cable was having making progress in big cities like New York, even with the FCC removing many of its previous restraints on cable. The thing that really revolutionized cable, and made it a staple in about every municipality across the nation, occured about the middle of the decade when HBO put its signal on satellite, leading to a number of cable TV networks springing up overnight through the rest of the 1970s and 1980s.

My first experience with cable was my parents getting it when it first came to town in the early 80's---the one time our family were early adopters of something (they still don't have a computer presently). Though granted, since we lived near Chicago, we didn't really need it for reception...

>>
I have to agree that the death of local ownership of broadcast stations and cable systems has had a stulifying effect on diversity of entertainment pretty much across the board. I'm afraid if measures are not taken to keep the digital subchannels out of the hands of the media megagiants, things aren't going to change much.
<<

Yeah, pretty much... though since each current station is allowed to piece its HDTV channel into several subchannels, it's up to the current owners of TV stations to offer more programming for these subchannels---hence my concern they'll take the lazy way out (and cheap way out by not paying independent programming producers/shows from companies they don't out-and-out own) and just use the subchannels for 24-hour local news/infomercials...

PBS stations, many of whom were early HDTV adaptors, seem to (from what I've heard) make better use of the subchannels than that, at least...

>>
Can anybody else name even one other show that was first-run in afternoon syndication in the 1970s?
<<

If it's a children's show, I can't think of anything. I'm sure there were a few game shows/miscellaneous shows first-run in syndication in the 70's, though (IIRC, the "$10,000 Pyramid" or one of its inflation-adjusted variants as one such example).

And Merilee's remarks:
>>Originally Posted by Brainatra
>>

>Actually, it's worse than that---B.


>Please, there ARE still some people here that DO like the 70's cartoons better than cartoons of today.

Was trying to remark on the lack of any children's programming altogether---the 70's, like the 50's, 60's and 80's, had weekday afternoon kids' shows of various sorts (reruns of Sat. morning stuff, theatrical cartoons, etc.).
I like 70's cartoons as much as any other Gen-X-er...

>>
>>
Back then, there wasn't nearly the media concentration there is today,
-B.

>That's because cartoons were diferent back then, there was no ratings box, no adult innuendo, ad hardly a lot of violence. If there was there was cartoonish violence like in Bugs Bunny which every little kid knows can't happen in real life. Nothing too scary or graphic.

Uh, media concentration doesn't have anything to do with the show's violence/sex content. Was stating that the effects of media concentration the way we see it today has a diversity-stifling effect on programming available, even if one of the few independent TV stations *wanted* to air weekday afternoon kids' shows (or, say, even reruns of "Josie and the Pussycats"---which they couldn't since Time-Warner insists on airing that show only on cable networks it owns lock, stock and barrel in its *HUGE* media empire).

Granted, Hanna-Barbera and Filmation dominated animation in the 70's, but they weren't part of any huge media conglomerates, and were free to sell their shows to whomever they wanted (CBS, ABC, NBC, syndicated stations).

There's other reasons for 70's cartoon's content style re: violence, etc., but that's for another topic...

>>
Media consolidation IMO has had a much greater effect on children's programming than anything the FCC's done (they had tighter regulation of ads in the 70's, but that didn't affect the programming available as much as complaints about violence, etc.). Though granted I'm not in favor of the "30 minute infomercial that doesn't announce itself as such" for kids ("Pokemon", etc.)...

>>Hear, hear!!! At least in the 70's you hardly had that!


A result of tighter rules regarding advertising in network TV children's programming that were passed in the late 60's---though technically syndicated/independent stations IIRC weren't subject to such rules, it took until the early 80's for them (and the toy manufacturers) to figure they could peddle toys/video games/etc. by making the half-hour syndicated shows... and with the Reagan administration's deregulation of network TV children shows' ad time in the early 80's, the 30-minute toy-ad became firmly entrenched.

Granted, "He-Man" did probably help contribute to the idea of first-run syndicated kids' shows being a more viable venture (leading to DuckTales, Tiny Toons, etc.), and I liked it as a kid, but doens't really change my feelings on this type of show now...


>>
Back then, there wasn't as much first-run syndicated adult programming (and no stupid trends like judge shows or dating shows, "The Dating Game" aside)---so stations would've aired children's shows to fill out airtime.
-B.

>Definitely true. I swear, if I see another Maury show 'Are you my Baby's Daddy...' There's so many of them it scares me! THIS is why I don't do that stuff!


You mean watching those shows, or, erm, some other kind of "stuff"? :-)


>>
4. Related to (3), no stupid "mini-networks" like the WB or UPN to eat up the number of independent stations and its air time---the main sources of weekday afternoon children's programming in the 50's-80's.
-B.


>Well, the WB DID bring back Scooby Doo...so I can't complain too much about THEM!


Very well then...

Re: HDTV:
And that costs HOW much...just out of curiousity...

Right now, hundreds of dollars at a *minimum*---definitely not near the range of the $100 20" Wal-Mart TV set I own. Frankly, I don't see myself paying more than $200 for something like a television set anytime soon...

-B.

[Zechs]

Frankly, I think the world could use less "super huge big mega hits" like Pokemon and Yugioh.Me too I'm hoping this means that they will translate crappy anime. Besides how many times can one watch a show before it get boring.

[Merilee]

Granted, Hanna-Barbera and Filmation dominated animation in the 70's, but they weren't part of any huge media conglomerates, and were free to sell their shows to whomever they wanted (CBS, ABC, NBC, syndicated stations).
-B.


Sigh...the good old days...


There's other reasons for 70's cartoon's content style re: violence, etc., but that's for another topic...
-B.
Yeah.


Though granted I'm not in favor of the "30 minute infomercial that doesn't announce itself as such" for kids ("Pokemon", etc.)...
-B.

That makes...oh...about three hundred of us..





You mean watching those shows, or, erm, some other kind of "stuff"? :-)
-B.

Both, actually.




Right now, hundreds of dollars at a *minimum*---definitely not near the range of the $100 20" Wal-Mart TV set I own. Frankly, I don't see myself paying more than $200 for something like a television set anytime soon...
-B.

That's what I thought.
Merilee
:cool:

[Jeff Harris]

So, it looks like a return to the days of the 1970s, when weekday syndicated children's programming were made up of either leftovers from the 1960s TV animation explosion (the eternal “Looney Tunes”, King Features “Popeye”, “Mister Magoo”, "Flintstones", "The Jetsons", "The Alvin Show", "Bullwinkle Show", "Marvel Superheroes", "Kimba", "Speed Racer", "Thunderbirds", "Deputy Dawg", "Magilla Gorilla", etc.) or the rare SatAM cartoon that achieved episode count ("Underdog", cobbling together all the Filmation series on DC Comics heroes, etc.).Well, that's just the thing. You'd think you'd be seeing more syndicated children's programming, but affiliate groups like Sinclair, Tribune, and Acme would rather put in more "judge" shows, a myriad of talk shows, and more off-net sitcom reruns. In short, the same mess my local UPN and Fox affiliates show every afternoon.


Well, everyone seems to forgetting the one on-air kids block that would be remaining--DIC Kids. If rumors of the KWB weekday demise would prove to be the case, the opportunity is there for DIC to beef up its lineup and make a move both mornings and afternoons weekdays. Unfortunately, DIC Kids hasn’t made an impression while going on two years now of existence, and there’s little in its history to suggest that will change in the future.You're right. The Incredible Worlds of DiC hasn't had the chance to show what they could really do in syndication. They could easily create two different lineups for markets who are going to lose the Kids' WB market, the FCC-friendly "edutainment" DiC Kids and something that showcases their more entertaining endeavors. They could even sell them as one complete package, a total of twenty hours on weekdays (including ten hours of edutainment) and an additional three hours on weekends.


Look, when CN suddenly canceled “Sailor Moon,” DIC made little effort to get it back on the air elsewhere before losing its license from Toei; it was unsuccessful in keeping “Speed Racer”/“Speed Racer X” or “Knights of the Zodiac” on the air (nor tried to air these shows on its own network); and it hasn’t tried to import shows from France, Canada or anywhere else in the world. It hasn’t produced any hits of its own. It hasn’t partnered with another animation provider like 4Kids, BKN, etc. to beef up its library of available shows (given the disaster of its marriage with Disney, maybe that’s understandable). It hasn’t even brought back the real gems in its vast library of shows from its golden days of the 1980s. Whatever the reason is, DIC hasn’t shown real signs of recovering from its days of captivity under Disney.DiC basically had to compete in the era of the superaffiliates where conglomerates, not distributors, rule the airwaves. DiC can't fairly compete with a Disney/ABC/ABC Cable, CBS/Nickelodeon, Kids' WB/Cartoon Network, or 4Kids/4KidsTV on FOX. You've seen newer DiC productions like Liberty's Kids, Strawberry Shortcake, and a few others on PBS Kids, Nickelodeon, and HBO in recent years.

DiC should partner up with one or two other independents in the kid-vid industry like Corus (owners of Nelvana), IDT Entertainment (owners of Mainframe, Film Roman, and Manga Entertainment), or even 4Kids Entertainment (btw, I completely agree with everything you said about 4Kids Entertainment). DiC and Nelvana are a perfect match, but DiC and 4Kids would be an even better one, though I would hate 4Kids to dominate, as they would in this case.


Ironically, I think the seeds of the decline of the 1980s weekday programming boom came about in the very formation of Fox Kids, followed by Disney Afternoon/Disney One Two, Kids WB, and the bulldog network BKN Kids.Fox Kids came in 1990, but I completely agree with your analysis.


In retrospect, programmers were basically throwing everything at the wall in hopes that something would stick in the 1980s syndicated market. You had everything from serious drama to silly comedy to soft and cute, programming aimed primarily at girls before it was cool, programs targeting the older teen/young adult market to preschool, and frantic action to sitcom. Once the network heads started taking over channel lineups, this variety gave way to a stultifying sameness in efforts to target a single demographic, ending in serious interference with the scripting of the shows themselves.Indeed. The Fox Kids model of children's programming in the mid-90s when they abandoned variety for mostly all action ruined children's programming in this country.

Honestly, where is the funny?

[RAINMAN]

4kids should try coming whit a weekday block. They have enough shows to pull it all, just as long they stop giving them away to CN for their miguze block.

[oz615]

Well ladies and gentlemen it's offical




WB 'Toons Out on Weekdays

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) The WB will give up its weekday kids' programming block next year, instead seeking a young-adult audience with more general entertainment programming.

The network says it will program an afternoon block -- 3 to 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday -- on its 200-plus affiliates with shows that appeal to The WB's young-adult audience. The afternoon block, set to launch in January, will be branded with The WB name and feature acquired series at first. The network will also look to develop original shows for the time period. In conjunction with the move, which will put an end to the Kids WB weekday lineup, the net's Saturday-morning Kids WB schedule will expand from four to five hours.


http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story/2548/Middle1/default/empty.gif/34343335303465363432396361663130) http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_nx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story@Middle1 (http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story@Middle1)"Our affiliates have explained to us their challenges in the Monday through Friday kids' business," says WB chairman Garth Ancier, who calls the changes a "win-win" situation for the network and its affiliates. "... This move will significantly increase ratings and revenue for both our station partners and the network. It will create a two-hour-a-day branded block that will provide strong lead-ins [to early-evening programming], which should in turn have a positive effect on prime-time ratings." The move away from children's programming in the afternoon is an acknowledgment that cable networks like the Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network (a Time Warner sibling of The WB) have pretty well locked up the kid audience on weekdays. The network also expects that adding another hour of Saturday-morning kids' programming will strengthen its position there. Ancier says The WB is looking at "a number of very interesting program choices" for the new afternoon block and will announce a schedule in the near future.

[Wanted]

Well, the news isn't too bad, as Saturdays get an extra hour, and a block for teens (me) is planned as the replacement. Let's hope we get some good shows...


The network says it will program an afternoon block -- 3 to 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday -- on its 200-plus affiliates with shows that appeal to The WB's young-adult audience. The afternoon block, set to launch in January, will be branded with The WB name and feature acquired series at first. The network will also look to develop original shows for the time period. In conjunction with the move, which will put an end to the Kids WB weekday lineup, the net's Saturday-morning Kids WB schedule will expand from four to five hours.


http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story/2548/Middle1/default/empty.gif/34343335303465363432396361663130)http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_nx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story@Middle1 (http://ads.zap2it.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/v3.zap2it.com/tveditorial/news/story@Middle1)"Our affiliates have explained to us their challenges in the Monday through Friday kids' business," says WB chairman Garth Ancier, who calls the changes a "win-win" situation for the network and its affiliates. "... This move will significantly increase ratings and revenue for both our station partners and the network. It will create a two-hour-a-day branded block that will provide strong lead-ins [to early-evening programming], which should in turn have a positive effect on prime-time ratings." The move away from children's programming in the afternoon is an acknowledgment that cable networks like the Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network (a Time Warner sibling of The WB) have pretty well locked up the kid audience on weekdays. The network also expects that adding another hour of Saturday-morning kids' programming will strengthen its position there. Ancier says The WB is looking at "a number of very interesting program choices" for the new afternoon block and will announce a schedule in the near future.Eh, whatever happens happens. I won't be taking it too hardly, if at all.

But, what will Kids' WB! be able to do with the extra hour on Saturdays? Is it at 7a ET, or at 12p ET? 7 is a dead hour, so I'm guessing it's 12p.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

It'll probably be 7AM and they use that hour to shovel the I/E requirement to.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I've gotta laugh at WB now... They did this after selling the syndication rights of Smallville, Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven to other networks (their competitors no less). What will they put in those 2 hours now?

Though I just had a crazy thought that could get me shot...

What if they aired some anime? Can you imagine the success of airing say... Inuyasha during those two hours. I'd say it'd be quite successful indeed. You can bet Viz would LOVE to have their top property on network television.

This could open up some interesting possibilities.

[jlaking]

I've gotta laugh at WB now... They did this after selling the syndication rights of Smallville, Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven to other networks (their competitors no less). What will they put in those 2 hours now?



The WB is not involved with syndication rights of their shows, the companies that make the shows are.

[Wanted]

Yeah, and that happens to be WB. I know, I know, it's not the channel. But, still, those shows still air in primetime, Sketch, and they did mention that they're looking for "acquired series;" acquired being the key word here.

Honestly, I don't think that they'd like to have two hours taken up by two shows. I'd rather have four shows, and then at least one of them could have a success, or at least a minor chance at it (it being success) To change focus, shows like Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven have no place on a teen block. No offense to anyone who takes a particular liking to those shows, but I just can't bring myself to watching a whole episode of either of those shows. Then again, we're talking about a major animation fan over here...

[bigddan11]

Unless Kids WB! announces something soon, then I'm thinking this fifth huor will probably include Poke'Mon and another show to be announced. My early guess would be The Batman since it has 26 episodes in season 2, and most of their new ones only have 13 episodes, but season 2 has already begun airing, so anything is possible. Xialoin Showdown is another possibility since it seems to be drawing in pretty good ratings with an hour, and this will probably be it's final season. Then again, Kids WB! does still have a right to Teen Titans, and since season 5 will probably be about to begin on Toonami at that time, they have seasons 3 and 4 to air on Kids WB!

As for what time they'll air the new hour, 7 AM would start their programming head to head with Jetix, but 12 PM puts it head to head with ABC Kids and college football. I'm going with the 12 PM slot only because I think Kids WB! will still air The Wonderful World of DiC for their educational requirements (probably on weekday mornings now), which means they'll still air one DiC program on Saturday's. The current one airs at 7:30 AM in most areas, so if they keep that showing, then 12 PM is the only place to expand to, and since it's Buffy that currently airs in that slot, it's not like they'll be hurting their ratings (since Buffy gets a lot of teen viewers it may always get one of those weekday spots. It could be a weekday showing of Buffy and Angel since they do that on weekends).

[Anthonynotes]

Hmph. A two-hour "The WB" block of shows on weekdays. Didn't see *that* one coming.

And given my avoidance of the WB's primetime fare (save for the occasional episode of "Reba," which I guess won't be one of the shows making this weekday lineup), I wonder if I'd have been better off with the "who's my baby's daddy?" syndicated slop-alternative instead... ;-)

So, guess this is the final haymaker for widespread availability of broadcast weekday children's programming in the United States, besides PBS Kids and any of the few remaining stations that still program *some* sort of cartoons on weekdays for kids (here, it's "Garfield and Friends" and the syndicated DIC shows on weekday mornings, mainly on the UPN/WB affiliates here). Let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence for the lineup that gave us "Heavy Duty Dubbas," "Pinky and the Brain", and the like...

(...)

OK, silence is over. Guess anyone without cable (*cough*me*cough*) will have to be satisfied with PBS Kids and whatever the local stations have left, if anything. *Sigh*.

As for the extra hour:
Probably expand it to 1 PM ET (noon central), instead of stretching back to 7 AM ET (which'd be 6 AM central---doubt they expect the midwestern viewers to get up *that* early). 1 PM ET was what Saturday morning traditionally ran up to (with even as late as 1:30 or 2 PM in years past). As for what'll air, probably another goofy-looking anime show I won't watch. ;-)

Meanwhile, what "young adults" will tune in at 3 PM on a weekday? Guessing it refers to teenagers/college students---this "young" adult (age 30) is working at that time. And how many teenagers are going to change off of the "who's my baby's daddy?" talk shows/MTV/whatever to watch reruns of "Smallville" (or whatever) on the WB at 3 PM anyway?


-B.

[bigddan11]

According to Toon Zone today the expansion will be 7 AM to 12 PM.

[Freedom Fighter]

So that's it for weekdays, huh? I guess it'll get the complainers about too much Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh off of WB's back. (Though with 10 slots in Jan. 2006, expect both shows to take up 2 slots apiece... or in YGO's case, 1 of YGO and 1 of YGO: GX [in Jan., note, after CN has started airing it]. And I'm still assuming 'Pokémon Chronicles' ends up on 4KidsTV until it's announced otherwise.) But it also mean that if you miss an episode, you could go months without seeing it again (or, if it's a low-rated series, never again).

Let me see... this fall, WB has Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Xiaolin Showdown, The Batman, Loonatics, and Coconut Fred. Suppose my assumption of two slots each for 4Kids' two shows is right and all of these shows are still on the block at the start of 2006 (no shows take a hiatus/are cancelled). That leaves two slots open. One could go to the next MegaMan series (I heard there's another after Axess). The other is wide open. What's New Scooby-Doo could return for a fourth season (though the ratings haven't been great). They could find a show to borrow from Cartoon Network (either bringing back Teen Titans [they've only aired the first two seasons], or they could appeal to girls by picking up Juniper Lee). Or they could come straight out of the blue with a new show that we don't know about yet. Or if they can't think of anything, they could do what they're doing now... double up a third show (odds are on Xiaolin Showdown if that happens).

The ball's in Kids WB's court now. The decision of adding a fifth hour and eliminating the weekday block could either launch a resurgence in their ratings or doom all of kids' programming to the staleness of E/I-dom for years to come.

[Peter Paltridge]

Uh-oh.

Does anybody remember when UPN tried this same thing? This was the season after Disney Afternoon expired, and UPN fed its affiliates one hour of teen drama--"Sweet Valley High" and "Breaker High." Both bit it within months, and UPN ran crying to Disney for help getting a children's block back.

I think companies need to, you know, learn from each other's mistakes....

[Burgundy Ranger]

As for what time they'll air the new hour, 7 AM would start their programming head to head with Jetix, but 12 PM puts it head to head with ABC Kids and college football. I'm going with the 12 PM slot only because I think Kids WB! will still air The Wonderful World of DiC for their educational requirements (probably on weekday mornings now), which means they'll still air one DiC program on Saturday's."Incredible World of DiC" is a syndicated package and is not on the Kids WB! on a network level.

I did a quick affiliate search on DiC's home page and found CBS, UPN and WB stations carrying the block.

Right now, the Kids WB! network does not show a single E/I-compliant program.

[Wanted]

Let me see... this fall, WB has Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Xiaolin Showdown, The Batman, Loonatics, and Coconut Fred. Suppose my assumption of two slots each for 4Kids' two shows is right and all of these shows are still on the block at the start of 2006 (no shows take a hiatus/are cancelled). That leaves two slots open. One could go to the next MegaMan series (I heard there's another after Axess). The other is wide open. What's New Scooby-Doo could return for a fourth season (though the ratings haven't been great). They could find a show to borrow from Cartoon Network (either bringing back Teen Titans [they've only aired the first two seasons], or they could appeal to girls by picking up Juniper Lee). Or they could come straight out of the blue with a new show that we don't know about yet. Or if they can't think of anything, they could do what they're doing now... double up a third show (odds are on Xiaolin Showdown if that happens).Um... Johnny Test, anyone? That means, by your assumptions, all but one of the slots are filled.

[Burgundy Ranger]

Here's WB's statement explaining why this is being done:


"The WB got into kids' programming a decade ago to develop a strong and loyal following of kids who would then become the primetime viewers of the future. The idea was to differentiate The WB stations in the marketplace and have kids think of The WB/Kids' WB as their network.  Since that time, the awareness of The WB has grown significantly. In addition, cable networks such as Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon and Disney Channel have changed the dynamics in the kids' business by programming virtually 24 hours a day, seven days a week, fulfilling, to a great extent, the demand for kids' programming in the afternoons for viewers and advertisers.  Additionally, a contributing factor in the decision was the recent Rulemaking by the Federal Communications Commission which mandates that promotional matter be counted as commercial time under the prevailing commercial cap. This Rulemaking created regulatory uncertainty concerning the wisdom of continuing with the Monday through Friday block."

That FCC promo rule is going to be a tough one. Right now, you can't run a commercial for toys of a show while THAT show is on. (No PR toy ads during a PR episode, etc.) The FCC says that then turns the entire episode into a 30-minute commercial, breaking the rules.

I don't know the start date, but the FCC is soon going to start counting promos ("Watch Pokemon, coming up this morning at 10:00 on Kids WB!") as a commercial, which further limits the amount of time that's available to be sold.

[hobbyfan]

Wow, now where am going to catch two hours of Pokermon and Yu-Gi-Oh?:rolleyes:
Actually, that may be part of the problem. WB has overexposed Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, playing them into the ground by running them 6 days a week the last couple of seasons. People might've gotten tired of seeing them. After all, everything runs in cycles. Pokemon has been here in the US for 7 seasons now, starting in syndie before WB picked it up in February 1999. Some kids might've moved on by now to the next passing fad.

[Freedom Fighter]

Um... Johnny Test, anyone? That means, by your assumptions, all but one of the slots are filled.Oopsie... must've missed that one. Sorry! :sweat:

[Anthonynotes]

Here's WB's statement explaining why this is being done:



That FCC promo rule is going to be a tough one. Right now, you can't run a commercial for toys of a show while THAT show is on. (No PR toy ads during a PR episode, etc.) The FCC says that then turns the entire episode into a 30-minute commercial, breaking the rules.

I don't know the start date, but the FCC is soon going to start counting promos ("Watch Pokemon, coming up this morning at 10:00 on Kids WB!") as a commercial, which further limits the amount of time that's available to be sold.

Hmm...

"Additionally, a contributing factor in the decision was the recent Rulemaking by the Federal Communications Commission which mandates that promotional matter be counted as commercial time under the prevailing commercial cap. This Rulemaking created regulatory uncertainty concerning the wisdom of continuing with the Monday through Friday block."

Wonder if this might be the FCC saying "no" to the half-hour toy-ad-show (since shows like Pokemon are, well, ads for the video game/toys/etc. they were spun off from). If so, it'd be a major reversal of broadcast kids' TV rules for over the last 20 years. Guess if this *is* the case, could see why WB isn't as keen on programming kids' shows on weekdays if it'd involve actually being more creative than turning the latest action figures into a show... ;-)

[Peter Paltridge]

Does this rule about promotional ads apply to prime time too? I hope so. I watched a lot of Fox this season and they really drown you in promos.

"AWN THE NEXT....HOWWWSE...A CHEERLEADER FAINTS...AND THE CURE IS SO ELUSIVE....BLAH BLAH BLAH...."

They might have to actually *gasp* extend the running time of the programs back to what they were 15 years ago!

[bklien]

Ya know what... There actually isn't much to air on weekdays at this point.

Mega Man is dead for sure. As is the majority of 4kidsTV and ex-Fox Box shows.

KWB's Saturdays are a joke now and they'll be worse in Fall. None of the shows will make it except maybe Loonatics and CN will air that one for obvious reasons.

This means Pokemon will air on CN again. 4kids will make sure of that.

Still don't know whats up with Shaman King. It may never get a weekday run. A pitty... as it's 4kids best dub.

So that leaves these somewhat successful shows that CN could pick up because Viacom and Disney aren't affiliated with them

Sonic X
Mew Mew
Doremi
GI-Joe Sigma Six (though I bet it tanks like Transformers and He-Man)
Xiaolin Showdown
Loonatics
And uh... I think that's it

CN already is airing YGO, TMNT, Winx Club, The Batman and One Piece.

I wouldn't like to see CN become a haven for Saturday morning crap but it looks like that may be the case.

This doesn't affect the majority of us much but think about the poor saps who don't have cable at all. Guess they'll have to get used to watching sitcoms and talk shows.

Actually I don't think airing something like Miguzi at 3PM will hurt the ratings. Plenty of kids are home by then. It's teenagers that are home after 3PM usually.

Weekdays have gone to crap entirely I guess... But its true this is nowhere near the loss of Disney Afternoon, Toonami or even Fox Kids. is "mew mew power" going to be on cn ever?

[loyalheart]

i think they'll focus on comedies... Reba, What I Like About You, Living With Fran... [and the other news ones coming this fall]

Those all target to family and teens.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

is "mew mew power" going to be on cn ever?
Probably. I did list it, just as Mew Mew not has Mew Mew Power.

But I can't say that for certain.

[Goku8399]

I could really careless if KidsWB leaves all they basically do is show nothing but reruns all the time especialy Yugioh with it's crappy dub I have seen the original series I even own the first three Volumes of the uncut series and I am just astonished at how bad the edited dub was if they do take off the weekday line up then I just get the anime channel & G4techtv

[Mrs._Tom_Ato]

True, Goku, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford cable/premium channels. If KWB goes through with their plan, the only animation broadcast watchers will be able to see will be Saturday morning blocks and PBS (if they even have a station). Oh those poor, broke bastards. =\

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I gotta agree that they wouldn't be missing much but at the same time I'm sad that there wont be any afternoon cartoons for kids except on cable and public television.

[Master Moron]

True, Goku, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford cable/premium channels. If KWB goes through with their plan, the only animation broadcast watchers will be able to see will be Saturday morning blocks and PBS (if they even have a station). Oh those poor, broke bastards. =\

It's better to not watch cartoons at all than watch crappy cartoons.

[Tay the Cat]

It's better to not watch cartoons at all than watch crappy cartoons.


To me, it's the opposite.

[Master Moron]

To me, it's the opposite.

Wouldn't it be better to watch a non-crappy live action show than a crappy animated show? Of course, I'm assuming that there's non-crappy live action shows on in the afternoon...oh well, you could always read a book.

[Gary L Thompson]

I've gotta laugh at WB now... They did this after selling the syndication rights of Smallville, Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven to other networks (their competitors no less). What will they put in those 2 hours now?

Though I just had a crazy thought that could get me shot...

What if they aired some anime? Can you imagine the success of airing say... Inuyasha during those two hours. I'd say it'd be quite successful indeed. You can bet Viz would LOVE to have their top property on network television.

This could open up some interesting possibilities.On the surface, that seems to be a good idea. "Inuyasha" and WB prime-time seem aimed at roughly the same type of viewership. The only problem with it is that running a cartoon could spark protest, as people could perceive it as a strategy aimed at drawing ex-KWB viewer to reruns of WB programming made for young adults.


As for what time they'll air the new hour, 7 AM would start their programming head to head with Jetix, but 12 PM puts it head to head with ABC Kids and college football. I'm going with the 12 PM slot only because I think Kids WB! will still air The Wonderful World of DiC for their educational requirements (probably on weekday mornings now), which means they'll still air one DiC program on Saturday's. The current one airs at 7:30 AM in most areas, so if they keep that showing, then 12 PM is the only place to expand to, and since it's Buffy that currently airs in that slot, it's not like they'll be hurting their ratings (since Buffy gets a lot of teen viewers it may always get one of those weekday spots. It could be a weekday showing of Buffy and Angel since they do that on weekends).I don't believe any over-the-air network has ever aired SatAM block programming in the 7 a.m. time slot, while only ABC programs for that slot now, years ago networks aired noon-1 p.m. programming more often than not. I would bet you're right.


is "mew mew power" going to be on cn ever?I would hope so. Though given "Precure" is in its second season in Japan, it would provide better episode count than "Mew Mew" at this point (on the other hand, given the way they've overexposed "Totally Spies", since when has that consideration stopped CN?).


Wouldn't it be better to watch a non-crappy live action show than a crappy animated show? Of course, I'm assuming that there's non-crappy live action shows on in the afternoon...oh well, you could always read a book.Assuming you're not a pre-teen with a yearning for froggies, but a horror for books.... (this joke intended only for the appreciation of ROD viewers).

[Master Moron]

If anyone cares(which I'm guessing they don't), Reba is the first show chosen to be on the new WB afternoon block. From tvguide.com:

ARRIBA, REBA!: The off-network rights to WB's Reba have been sold to... [cue drumroll]... WB! Reba is the first show to be picked up for the Frog's new afternoon programming block, which premieres this fall.

Hmmm...I wonder if it will be all sitcoms...

[PowerZord]

The death of kids wb is near, the same began with Fox kids. and look where it is now.