McKimson unit question

[Jack]

chuckamuck's comment about "The Hole Idea" in another thread reminded me of a question I wanted to ask. I heard somewhere that in "Hollywood Cartoons" (BTW, is that a good book, or a waste of money?) it is mentioned that McKimson's unit was closed down before the 3-D shutdown, and not because of it. Is this true? If it is, what made WB change its mind and reopen McKimson's unit when the whole studio reopened? The temporary idea of his unit being abandoned sort of explains why Freleng and Jones raided his unit.

McKimson's unit being abandoned is really one of those big "what ifs," isn't it? The post 1948 package of cartoons would have been quite a bit smaller without him, and more people would probably praise his overall work. More older cartoons would have been reissued, as well.

I think McKimson would have become an animator again, and the various cast offs that filled his unit later on would have been farmed out to the Freleng and Jones units, or they would have been let go. I think I'd miss his later cartoons, though. I always liked them.



Jack :confused:

[Matthew Hunter]

A lot of people don't like McKimson much, and I don't know why. Come on, the guy who was practically
THE Bugs Bunny director of the early 1950's? I guess they don't like him for his work on the post-1964 cartoons, but I actually think his are the best of those shorts, and what could he do about the budget cuts? "The Hole Idea" isn't a bad cartoon, it's not his best, but it's pretty funny. In fact, McKimson's only real turkies were from the 1963-1964 years, stuff like "Dr. Devil and Mr. Hare" and "Strangled Eggs". I hadn't heard about a closing of his unit, but if you check the credits there may be proof, like a shuffling of key animators to different directors.
-Matthew

[PorkyandDaffy]

I don't know why McKimson gets a lot of flack, either. McKimson ruled - before his unit went to pieces. In the late 40's and early 50's, he was churning out one classic after another and he made the best Porky & Daffy team-up cartoons since Clampett. A pity what happened to his unit after 1954.

[Brandon Pierce]

I thought Mckimson's cartoons were pretty good. I didn't realy like his early Bugs cartoons. Only 'cause Bugs acts like my dad (check out Easter Yeggs, or The Grey-Hounded Hare, and you're all looking at my dad!).

[J Lee]

McKimson had his ups and downs during the 1950s, with the downs coming usually after he and Pierce had worked too long together without a break. Sid Marcus' return to the McKimson unit in 1952 pumped some life into it, and his unit also seemed to benefit from the 3-D break, since his cartoons for about 2-3 years after the re-opening (and while working with all three WB story men) were pretty lively, but he and Tedd did fall back into a rut at the end of the decade.

On the other had, in the final two years of the studio, the level of McKimson's cartoons declined less than Jones' or Frelengs, so that by the time things closed up in 1963, all three units were pretty much on the same level, coming up with a few gems and a lot of uninspired work (sharing John Dunn and Dave Detiege as storymen for all three unit also probably played a big role there).

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by Jack
chuckamuck's comment about "The Hole Idea" in another thread reminded me of a question I wanted to ask. I heard somewhere that in "Hollywood Cartoons" (BTW, is that a good book, or a waste of money?) it is mentioned that McKimson's unit was closed down before the 3-D shutdown, and not because of it. Is this true? If it is, what made WB change its mind and reopen McKimson's unit when the whole studio reopened? The temporary idea of his unit being abandoned sort of explains why Freleng and Jones raided his unit.

McKimson's unit being abandoned is really one of those big "what ifs," isn't it? ....

I think McKimson would have become an animator again, and the various cast offs that filled his unit later on would have been farmed out to the Freleng and Jones units, or they would have been let go. I think I'd miss his later cartoons, though. I always liked them.

Jack :confused:

At the risk of being royally pummeled and consigned to the kitty-litter box I hereby add my two cents worth... In all of my years of cartoon research (don't you dare ask how many ;)) I NEVER found evidence of Bob McKimson's unit being singled out for destruction by Jack L. Warner... McKimson and Jones and all their storymen (Maltese, Pierce, Sid Marcus) and animators were let out on the street simultaneously and could be found flooding other animation houses. Bob McKimson (and brother Charles) both went into commercial work, Chuck went to the Mouse-House (yuckkkkkk), Maltese to Lantz, Pierce to UPA etc. Nobody raided the McKimson unit...

Annnnnd Bob McKimson already had quite an enviable track record, so much so that he never had to contemplate returning to the rigors of being an animator once again. (Okay except on those couple of Warner cartoons!)

[chuckamuck43]

Not that anyone has suggested it, but let me take this opportunity to say that I've no bias against McKimson's work!

I will say THIS - when it comes to the WB directors, I rate them this way :

1. Chuck Jones
2. Bob Clampett
3. Friz Freleng
4. Robert McKimson

That's just my personal preference. Heck, I'd rather watch a good Foghorn Leghorn toon than a Pepe LePew anytime (and that doesn't mean I dislike Pepe, either - I just love, Ah say, LOOOVE Foghorn, son!)

[lislebartman]

In attempting to avoid reiterating what all of you in this thread have said, I must say that Robert McKimson did make some very funny cartoons. I wish that WB had made a tribute tape for him when they originally issued the "Golden Age of Looney Tunes" videos back in the 1980s. I feel as though his memory and his legacy have been slighted...

[Thad Komorowski]

I really like McKimson's character designs, they're really the best of all of those special edition cels, paintings, limited editions, etc.

I actually have one of his sericels, it's of Bugs Bunny in a baseball outfit with a bat. According to the book Warner Bros. Animation Art, it's worth $190.


-Thad

[DR. BELCH]

--be considered a "lesser" director by some because he seemed to have trouble finding himself. He had the most one-shots of any director at Warners and fewest "signature" characters, as I've noted before. Then again, with Foghorn, quality beats quantity any day. :)

[Jack]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43
Not that anyone has suggested it, but let me take this opportunity to say that I've no bias against McKimson's work!
And I just wanted to say that I by no means made this thread in response to what you said about "The Hole Idea." It's not really a favorite of mine, either. I find it enjoyable, though. It's just that it's one of the few cartoons McKimson did almost singlehandedly after the studio reopened, and you mentioning it just reminded me of a question I had already been meaning to ask.

Looking at the credits of LTs and MMs from around 1954-56, I'd have to agree with Sogturtle that nobody raided McKimson's unit. It seems more like a case of bad luck. McKimson's animators found greener pastures and didn't want to return to WB.

Jack :D

[J Lee]

The point could be made that most of Jones' and Freleng's crews did evetually return to the studio, while McKimson's crew stayed away, which could reflect either on how they felt within the unit, or the fact that as the No. 3 unit at Warners, some people there may not have been on the same pay level as Chuck and Friz' groups.

For what it's worth, Barrier's book did say McKimson was very precise in what he wanted out of his animators when he took over from Tashlin in the 1940s, and didn't want them (or Scribner, when he moved over to the unit) to vary too far from Bob's character designs and layouts.

A lack of freedom may have been a factor in them not returning, though there's no question that Friz could be just as demanding about what he wanted in his cartoons, but the differences in staff pre- and post-3D are far less drastic there.

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by J Lee
The point could be made that most of Jones' and Freleng's crews did evetually return to the studio, while McKimson's crew stayed away, which could reflect either on how they felt within the unit, or the fact that as the No. 3 unit at Warners, some people there may not have been on the same pay level as Chuck and Friz' groups.

For what it's worth, Barrier's book did say McKimson was very precise in what he wanted out of his animators when he took over from Tashlin in the 1940s, and didn't want them (or Scribner, when he moved over to the unit) to vary too far from Bob's character designs and layouts.

A lack of freedom may have been a factor in them not returning, though there's no question that Friz could be just as demanding about what he wanted in his cartoons, but the differences in staff pre- and post-3D are far less drastic there.

Something that SHOULD give the McKimson unit more respect... It was actually the continuation of the ORIGINAL Bob Clampett unit!! Don't believe me?!?!? Think about it... Clampett handed it over to Norm McCabe, McCabe gave it up to Tashlin. Annnnnd Tashlin left it to McKimson! The animators had dwindled and swapped, but storyman Warren Foster, and background artist Richard H. Thomas remained in place. (Yeah, I know, Foster was swapped for Pierce).

As far as McKimson's departed (and non-returned) crew. Herman Cohen was highly regarded and could get work anywhere. Phil DeLara went into lucrative comic book work (like Tom McKimson). And as I said earlier Charles McKimson became a director for another outfit (he would never have been allowed to direct at Warners). None had any great reasons to return.

On the issue of McKimson's animators not being paid the same as those of Friz and Chuck... Were Clampett's animators or Tashlin's or McCabe's animators discriminated against??? According to one former Warner animator, when he sought re-employment at Warners he was offered the position of effects animator. He was informed that it paid EXACTLY the same as that of a regular animator. With these things in mind we can be sure that there was no pay discrimination against McKimson's animators.

And just my humble little opinion... Bob McKimson at his best was absolutely superb!!! At his worst he still beat the bejeebers out of any non-WB/MGM director.

[J Lee]

Tim --

There's a lot of McKimson's work I enjoy, and his work in the final days of the original studio never took on the cloying nature of Jones' non-Road Runner stuff, or the just-going-through-the-motions feeling that some of Friz' work had (Speedy especially). But Bob was treated like the Shemp Howard of the Warner Bros. studio in terms of respect -- his overall body of work may not have matched the other dirctors, but he's certainly a long ways from being down in the Paul J. Smith territory.

As for his animators, it may just have been bigger paychecks or their own desire to do something else that kept them away from the studio after 1953. But for whatever reason, McKimson just didn't win the same type of loyalty to his unit that the animators showed Jones and Freleng, and certainly they also could have easily found work elsewhere, either in theatricals or in commercial studio work. (Of course, since "The Hole Idea" was animated solely by Bob and much of "Dime to Retire" and "Too Hop to Handle" were also his animation work, his ex-staff may have felt slighted that they were not called back to the studio at the same time as Chuck and Friz' groups. They may also have worried that if times got tough or if J.L. suddenly decided that something like Smellavision was the wave of the theatrical future they would be the first to be axed).

[angilbas]

The 1954 turnover of McKimson's unit at least gave him Robert Gribbroek for layouts and backgrounds. Gribbroek's work was well-crafted yet unpretentious. Much of his best work appeared in the 1960s ("The Million-Hare," "Aqua Duck," "Dr. Devil and Mr. Hare).

Ted Bonnickson was McKimson's most highly regarded animator until Warren Batchelder became a crew member around 1959--making McKimson the only Warner's director (if not the only director anywhere) to see improvement in his animation at the end of the 1950s (when limited animation was rapidly taking over).

-Tony

[Jack]

Originally posted by angilbas
The 1954 turnover of McKimson's unit at least gave him Robert Gribbroek for layouts and backgrounds. Gribbroek's work was well-crafted yet unpretentious. Much of his best work appeared in the 1960s ("The Million-Hare," "Aqua Duck," "Dr. Devil and Mr. Hare).
I think he's really underrated, I love everything he did for Jones and a lot of his late 50s-60s work almost has an early 50s look to it. I don't much care for some of his earliest McKimson work, though (mostly the stuff he did right after returning from never-never land, just where did he disappear to between 1952 and 1955?). I think he was missused on those few Jones Tom and Jerry cartoons where he was a background painter.

Actually, I've also heard that McKimson was usually treated with less respect than Jones and Freleng despite his huge contributions to the success of Warner Brothers cartoons. He designed a lot of the "definitive" versions of the Looney Tune characters, after all. And I'll agree with everyone else that he made a lot of hilarious cartoons. Some of the later ones may not quite match up to the Jones or Freleng shorts being made, but compared to Hollywood animation of the later 50s/60s in general, McKimson did an excellent job.

And even though they aren't my absolute favorites, I like his less heavy handed approach to the meaner Daffy. "Ducking The Devil" is very successful, and how many 1960s Daffy Duck cartoons could show him in drag singing "The Latin Quarter?"

I also love the Hippety Hopper shorts, they aren't nearly as repetative as people say they are. He always put in new characters to sort of freshen it up. Two of the highlights of the series are the "Of Mice and Men" Hippety cartoons he did.


Jack :D

[chuckamuck43]

And I, for one, love Sylvester Junior!

...Oh, Father, I'm so ashamed!...