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Toon Capone
04-25-2005, 02:17 PM
I found this article on tolerance.org and thought it was interesting and wanted your thoughts on it.

Male Bashing on TV
http://www.tolerance.org/images/1x1.gif
By Michael Abernathy


Feb. 6 , 2003 -- Warning for our male readers: The following article contains big words and complex sentences. It might be a good idea to have a woman nearby to explain it to you.

It has been a hard day. Your assistant at work is out with the flu and there is another deadline fast approaching. Your wife is at a business conference, so you have to pick up your son at daycare, make dinner, clean the kitchen, do a load of laundry and get Junior to bed before you can settle down on the sofa with those reports you still need to go over.

Perhaps a little comedy will make the work more bearable, you think, so you turn on CBS's Monday night comedies: "King of Queens," "Yes, Dear," "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "Still Standing."

Over the next two hours, you see four male lead characters who are nothing like you. These men are selfish and lazy, inconsiderate husbands and poor parents.

And the commercials in between aren't any better. Among them:

A feminine hygiene ad: Two women are traveling down a lovely country road, laughing and having a great time. But wait. One of them needs to check the freshness of her mini-pad, and, apparently, the next rest area is six states away. A woman's voice-over interjects, "It's obvious that the interstate system was designed by men."

A digital camera ad: A young husband walks through a grocery store, trying to match photos in his hand with items on the shelves. Cut to his wife in the kitchen, snapping digital pictures of all the items in the pantry so that hubby won't screw up the shopping.

A family game ad: A dorky guy and beautiful woman are playing Trivial Pursuit. He asks her, "How much does the average man's brain weigh?" Her answer: "Not much."

A wine ad: A group of women are sitting around the patio of a beach house, drinking a blush wine. Their boyfriends approach but are denied refreshment until they have "earned" it by building a sand statue of David.


Welcome to the new comic image of men on TV: incompetence at its worst.

Where television used to feature wise and wonderful fathers and husbands, today's comedies and ads often feature bumbling husbands and inept, uninvolved fathers.

On "Still Standing," Bill (Mark Addy) embarrasses his wife Judy (Jamie Gertz) so badly in front of her reading group that she is dropped from the group.

On "Everybody Loves Raymond," Raymond (Ray Romano) must choose between bathing the twin boys or helping his daughter with her homework. He begrudgingly agrees to assist his daughter, for whom he is no help whatsoever.


CBS is not the only guilty party. ABC's "My Wife and Kids" and "According to Jim," Fox's "The Bernie Mac Show," "The Simpsons," "Malcolm in the Middle" and (the recently cancelled) "Titus," and the WB's "Reba" also feature women who are better organized and possess better relational skills than their male counterparts.

While most television dramas tend to avoid gender stereotypes, as these undermine "realism," comic portrayals of men have become increasingly negative. The trend is so noticeable that it has been criticized by men's rights groups and some television critics.

It has also been studied by academicians Katherine Young and Paul Nathanson in their book, "Spreading Misandry: The Teaching of Contempt for Men in Popular Culture."

Young and Nathanson argue that in addition to being portrayed as generally unintelligent, men are ridiculed, rejected and physically abused in the media. Such behavior, they suggest, "would never be acceptable if directed at women."

Evidence of this pattern is found in a 2001 survey of 1,000 adults conducted by the Advertising Standards Association in Great Britain, which found that two-thirds of respondents thought that women featured in advertisements were "intelligent, assertive and caring," while the men were "pathetic and silly." The number of respondents who thought men were depicted as "intelligent" was a paltry 14%. (While these figures apply to the U.K., comparable advertisements air in the U.S.)

Some feminists might argue that, for decades, women on TV looked mindless, and that turnabout is fair play. True, many women characters through the years have had little more to do than look after their families.

From the prim housewife whose only means of control over her children was, "Wait till your father gets home!" to the dutiful housewife whose husband declares, "My wife: I think I'll keep her," women in the '50s and '60s were often subservient. (This generalization leaves out the unusual someone like Donna Reed, who produced her own show, on which she was not subservient.)

Then, during the "sexual revolution," TV began to feature independent women who could take care of themselves (Mary and Rhoda on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," Julia, Alice and Flo on "Alice," Louise and Florence on "The Jeffersons"). So now, 30 years later, you'd think that maybe we'd have come to some parity. Not even.

Men still dominate
Granted, men still dominate television, from the newsroom to primetime. And men do plenty on their own to perpetuate the image of the immature male, from Comedy Central's "The Man Show" to the hordes of drunken college boys who show up every year on "MTV's Spring Break." What's the problem with a few jokes about how dumb men can be? C'mon, can't we take a few jokes?

If only it was just a few. The jokes have become standard fare. Looking at a handful of sitcoms makes the situation seem relatively insignificant, but when those sitcoms are combined with dozens of negative ads that repeat frequently, then a poor image of men is created in the minds of viewers.

According to "Gender Issues in Advertising Language," television portrayals that help create or reinforce negative stereotypes can lead to problems with self-image, self-concept and personal aspirations. Young men learn that they are expected to screw up, that women will have the brains to their brawn and that childcare is over their heads.

And it isn't just men who suffer from this constant parade of dumb men on TV. Children Now reports a new study that found that two-thirds of children they surveyed describe men on TV as angry and only one-third report ever seeing a man on television performing domestic chores, such as cooking or cleaning. There are far too few positive role models for young boys on television.

Moreover, stereotypical male-bashing portrayals undermine the core belief of the feminist movement: equality. Just think. What if the butt of all the jokes took on another identity? Consider the following fictional exchanges:

"It is so hard to get decent employees."
"That's because you keep hiring blacks."

"I just don't understand this project at all."
"Well, a woman explained it to you, so what did you expect?"

"I can't believe he is going out again tonight."
"Oh please, all Hispanics care about is sex."

All of these statements are offensive, and would rightfully be objected to by advocates of fair representation in the media. However, put the word "man" or "men" in place of "blacks," "woman" and "Hispanics" in the above sentences, and they're deemed humorous.

Are men who ask to be treated civilly overly sensitive, or are we as justified in our objections as members of NOW, the NAACP, GLAAD and other groups that protest demeaning television portrayals, whether those portrayals are on sitcoms, dramas, advertisements, or moronic TV like "The Man Show?"

Too sensitive, or ahead of his time?
Most of the shows I'm talking about are popular. Maybe that means I am being too sensitive.

Yet, many viewers didn't have a problem with "Amos and Andy" or "I Dream of Jeannie," both famous for their offensive stereotypes. These shows enjoyed good ratings, but neither concept is likely to be revived anytime soon, as "society" has realized their inappropriateness.

All this is not to say buffoonery — male or female — isn't a comic staple. Barney on "The Andy Griffith Show," Ted on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" and Kramer on "Seinfeld" were all vital characters, but the shows also featured intelligent males.

And these clowns were amusing because they were eccentric personalities, not because they were men. The same could be said of many female characters on TV, like "Alice's" Flo, "Friends'" Phoebe, or Karen on "Will & Grace." Good comedy stems from creative writing and imaginative characterizations, not from degrading stereotypes.

Fortunately, some people are working to change the way television portrays men.

J. C. Penney recently ran an ad for a One Day sale, with a father at the breakfast table, with his infant crying and throwing things. The father asks the child when his mother will be home.

Lana Whited of The Roanoke Times, syndicated columnist Dirk Lammers, and the National Men's Resource Center were just a few who objected to this image of an apparently incompetent and uncaring father, one who would let his child cry without making any attempt to calm him. Penney's got the message; their recent holiday ad features a father, mother and son all happily shopping together.

Few men I know want a return to the "good ole days." Those generalizations were as unrealistic as the idea that all men are big slobbering goofballs.

Hope lies beyond such simplistic oppositions, in shows like "The Cosby Show" or "Mad About You," which placed their protagonists on level playing fields. Paul Reiser and Cosby did, on occasion, do moronic things, but so did Helen Hunt and Phylicia Rashad. People — because they are people, not just gendered people — are prone to fall on their faces occasionally.

Undoubtedly, there are men out there who are clones of Ward Cleaver, just as there are men who resemble Al Bundy. But the majority is somewhere in between.

We're trying to deal the best we can with the kids, the spouse, the job, the bills, the household chores, and the countless crises that pop up unexpectedly. After all that, when we do get the chance to sit down and relax, it would be nice to turn on the TV and not see ourselves reflected as idiots.

Supremus
04-25-2005, 02:32 PM
We're trying to deal the best we can with the kids, the spouse, the job, the bills, the household chores, and the countless crises that pop up unexpectedly. After all that, when we do get the chance to sit down and relax, it would be nice to turn on the TV and not see ourselves reflected as idiots.I find those kind of articles ridicilous, not so much for the point they're making, but the real thoughts behind it. For decades, us males, specifically white males, have lived under the delusional fantasy that we're just great. We have stepped on women, gays, and minorities of all kinds to get our way, and now it's starting to slip a little. Turns out we have been complacent. We are no longer the strongest, the smartest, or the fastest, and they've figured us out. We're idiots, and they're coming to get us. Watch out fellow males, we're in deep trouble... but it's our own fault.

Relax, it's only TV.

Toon Capone
04-25-2005, 02:35 PM
^
That part you quoted was part of the article that's not my opinion.

Chad Bonin
04-25-2005, 03:05 PM
Yeah, uh, men get hated on on TV.

Ain't gonna change.

Spongebrain2.0
04-25-2005, 03:06 PM
I kinda do agree. Why on every TV show does the father have to be a brain-dead retard. It's funny but if there was an idiotic women on TV, then all those feminist groups would be up in arms:p

Supremus
04-25-2005, 04:50 PM
^
That part you quoted was part of the article that's not my opinion.I know. I just quoted what I think it all boils down to, and I did specifically harsh on the article, not you.


... but if there was an idiotic women on TV, then all those feminist groups would be up in arms:pNonsense. There have been plenty of idiotic women on TV from Lucile Ball to Ellen, to the girls on Friends, Will & Grace, Hope & Faith, etc, etc, but shows with a female lead, idiotic or not, are prone to early cancellation, because they don't do well with the main demographic... men.

The point here is that comedy tends to play on stupidity, and since the lead in most comedies on TV are men, they get to be the stupid ones. There isn't an awful lot of comedy mileage in an intellectual man living with a retarded woman, and before us poor men start feeling too sorry for ourselves, let's not forget how women are mostly still sex objects on TV, and even though we tend to look stupid in comedies, we make up for it by being the gun-wielding, mystery-solving, straight-talking men of action in such shows as 24, CSI, and just about any other action/drama show on TV.

Bottom line, anybody who feels men are hard done by is either absurdly misinformed, disingenuous, or just downright stupid, which would seem to go hand in hand with the portrayal in question. :p

Peter Paltridge
04-25-2005, 05:01 PM
I still find dumb husbands funny. It has gone kind of too far though...Anyone seen the fast food ads where a man just stands there staring at a grocery store shelf, totally bewildered at what to do with anything there? "Carl's Jr. Without us, some guys would starve," the ads always end with.

Dogbert
04-25-2005, 05:16 PM
"It is so hard to get decent employees."
"That's because you keep hiring blacks."

"I just don't understand this project at all."
"Well, a woman explained it to you, so what did you expect?"

"I can't believe he is going out again tonight."
"Oh please, all Hispanics care about is sex."

All of these statements are offensive, and would rightfully be objected to by advocates of fair representation in the media. However, put the word "man" or "men" in place of "blacks," "woman" and "Hispanics" in the above sentences, and they're deemed humorous.I totally argree with that point. I don't mind a few dumb men here and there, but the constant dumb men in ads have become too much. Just as an example, look at pizza ads (either Dominos or Pizza Hut, I'm not sure which). I've seen two in a row with men being dumb as the joke.

Supremus
04-25-2005, 05:33 PM
I totally argree with that point. I don't mind a few dumb men here and there, but the constant dumb men in ads have become too much. Just as an example, look at pizza ads (either Dominos or Pizza Hut, I'm not sure which). I've seen two in a row with men being dumb as the joke.How many ads have you seen in a row where women were sex objects?

Dogbert
04-25-2005, 05:58 PM
How many ads have you seen in a row where women were sex objects?Just because I have voiced a complaint against "men are dumb" ads doesn't mean I think ads are 100% pro-women. However, most of the ads you are talking about that I've seen also make the men look like idiots. Maybe I'm not watching the same programing you are, but I think it's more "men are dumb" than "women are hot."

Additionally, as the article this topic is about takes note, the ads you are talking about already have groups targeting them.


Bottom line, anybody who feels men are hard done by is either absurdly misinformed, disingenuous, or just downright stupid [Bold added], which would seem to go hand in hand with the portrayal in question.I find that statement insulting. You're not going to sway my opinion by saying I'm "downright stupid."


I find those kind of articles ridicilous, not so much for the point they're making, but the real thoughts behind it. For decades, us males, specifically white males, have lived under the delusional fantasy that we're just great. We have stepped on women, gays, and minorities of all kinds to get our way, and now it's starting to slip a little. Turns out we have been complacent. We are no longer the strongest, the smartest, or the fastest, and they've figured us out. We're idiots, and they're coming to get us. Watch out fellow males, we're in deep trouble... but it's our own fault.So then you're using the "eye for an eye" philosophy? Maybe we should let every slave decendant have his/her own slave; that would show us white men. Just because white men abused power in the past does not mean it's okay to do everything back to a new generation that has done nothing. I have never done anything to women or minorities, yet I have suffered many insults based on white male stereotypes. And I don't just mean through ads or uneducated idiots. I'm talking about fellow college students and gender bias by college professors.

And just what do you mean by this statement? "We are no longer the strongest, the smartest, or the fastest, and they've figured us out. We're idiots..." I understand that there's likely a bit of sarcasm there, but I still fail to understand your point.

Classic Speedy
04-25-2005, 06:48 PM
This article reminds me of that Nick DiPaolo joke (paraphrased):
"You seen these new ads for AOL? "So easy, even my DAD can use it!" Hey, how about some courtesy- he bought you the f***ing computer!"

Bowles
04-25-2005, 06:55 PM
I don't care as long as the show's funny. For future reference, see Friends and ask no more questions. :p

Supremus
04-25-2005, 07:24 PM
I find that statement insulting. You're not going to sway my opinion by saying I'm "downright stupid."Then you're being too sensitive. I'm not saying you are stupid, but I know a lot of people with these views who are. Just covering the whole spectrum. Sorry if I struck a nerve :)


So then you're using the "eye for an eye" philosophy? Maybe we should let every slave decendant have his/her own slave; that would show us white men.No, I am not in favor of insane PC either, just a bit of common sense. We are not talking about an unfair persecution of white men, just a generel levelling of the playing field.


Just because white men abused power in the past does not mean it's okay to do everything back to a new generation that has done nothing. I have never done anything to women or minorities, yet I have suffered many insults based on white male stereotypes. And I don't just mean through ads or uneducated idiots. I'm talking about fellow college students and gender bias by college professors.If there's a bit of balancing out in terms of who is on the receiving end of having to deal with stereotypes, that's just fine with me. Ideally nobody should be judged by a stereotype, but that's never going to happen in the real world, and if you think pizza ads and sitcoms are responsible for people thinking you are dumb, then you're... well, you know. :)


And just what do you mean by this statement? "We are no longer the strongest, the smartest, or the fastest, and they've figured us out. We're idiots..." I understand that there's likely a bit of sarcasm there, but I still fail to understand your point.The fact of the matter is that us white males are simply not keeping up. We now tend to do less well in school than girls, and it's starting to become an issue in the job market as competition from women and minorities is becoming stronger, and they are proving themselves to be just as able as we are. It's the result of us having had it too easy for too long, and now women and minorities are catching up. The white male used to rule the world. Now we have to share as well as pull our own weight. It's so unfair, isn't it?

EinBebop
04-25-2005, 07:35 PM
What's the problem with a few jokes about how dumb men can be? C'mon, can't we take a few jokes?That's just it. The white male is the only one who still can. ;)

[EDIT]For clarity's sake, I mean 'whites' and 'males', as they're the only two groups you can still insult without having to worry about backlash. :D

Elven Moon
04-25-2005, 08:19 PM
If I may, I could find it insulting that they portray women as smart ONLY in comparison to the "stupid" males :gir:

Dogbert
04-25-2005, 08:43 PM
No, I am not in favor of insane PC either, just a bit of common sense. We are not talking about an unfair persecution of white men, just a generel levelling of the playing field.

If there's a bit of balancing out in terms of who is on the receiving end of having to deal with stereotypes, that's just fine with me. Ideally nobody should be judged by a stereotype, but that's never going to happen in the real world, and if you think pizza ads and sitcoms are responsible for people thinking you are dumb, then you're... well, you know.I actually don't have a problem with ads and sitcoms making fun of dumb white males (I'm tired of ads with extremely dumb people, but that's another topic). What I have a problem with is it being okay to make fun of white males, but no one else. I hate things being "P.C." If I don't want to watch "The Man Show," then I won't (and I don't). I believe it's fine to have stereotypes, they are natural and harmless in most cases. I just don't like it that my demograph has become the butt of most jokes because it would be wrong to make fun of any other group.

By the way, I haven't said anything about sitcoms because I don't see this as a problem in sitcoms anywhere near as much as I do with ads. First, the level of dumbness the males in the sitcoms isn't anywhere near what it is in ads. Second, if I don't want to watch these sitcoms, then I don't have to. I often watch Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond. I haven't seen any gender bias on Friends; Ross (the Ph.D.) and Chandler are considered the smartest friends by many. As for Everybody Loves Raymond, I agree that Ray can come off as a pethetic idiot sometimes, but I find Debra to be just mean. I think that's equal.

I didn't mean to imply that sitcoms and ads have brought about jokes at males' expense in my experience. I was simply trying to point out that it's unfair to punish the innocent because my demograph did wrong in the past. Also, I don't think it's fair that women and minorities can make anti-white male jokes in public, but not the other way around. Instead, I could be arrested for "ethnic intimidation."


The fact of the matter is that us white males are simply not keeping up. We now tend to do less well in school than girls, and it's starting to become an issue in the job market as competition from women and minorities is becoming stronger, and they are proving themselves to be just as able as we are. It's the result of us having had it too easy for too long, and now women and minorities are catching up. The white male used to rule the world. Now we have to share as well as pull our own weight. It's so unfair, isn't it?Do you have anything to back that up (other than your own experiences). I know college enrollment is something like 56% female, but that's not a huge difference. I know minorities aren't that strong in college; my last school was 95% non-Hispanic white.

Supremus
04-25-2005, 09:08 PM
I hate things being "P.C." If I don't want to watch "The Man Show," then I won't (and I don't). I believe it's fine to have stereotypes, they are natural and harmless in most cases. I just don't like it that my demograph has become the butt of most jokes because it would be wrong to make fun of any other group.That I would agree with. Still, I would argue that black people seem perfectly happy to play up to their stereotypes in ads and on TV in general, but there still seems to be resistance to white people making fun of blacks. Understandable, I guess, and I think it's something that will correct itself over time.


Also, I don't think it's fair that women and minorities can make anti-white male jokes in public, but not the other way around. Instead, I could be arrested for "ethnic intimidation."Women are still clawing their way up the equality ladder, and I guess it's fair enough that they take a few cheapshots along the way. The bottom line is, it only hurts if it's true, and in many cases it is. As for the minorities, you've got the Patriot Act to get back at anybody who might get out of line or don't appreciate your sense of humor. :)


Do you have anything to back that up (other than your own experiences). I know college enrollment is something like 56% female, but that's not a huge difference. I know minorities aren't that strong in college; my last school was 95% non-Hispanic white.I don't have the statistics on hand, but it's generally well known that there has been a mini-surge in girls outperforming boys, particularly pre-college, where boys used to dominate 10-15 years ago. I don't know what the stats are on minorities, but I have heard many Men's Rights groups harp on about how they are doing so well because of unfair PC treatment. Be that as it may, if even those knuckleheads say minorities are doing better, it's probably true.


Heh, Arnie sure isn't pulling any PC punches: :)

Arnold Schwarzenegger offended female radio listeners when he joked about pre-menstrual stress yesterday.

The California Governor informed DJ Howard Stern that he felt the moon should be removed in order to prevent women's monthly mood swings.

Listeners were told: "If we get rid of the moon, women, whose menstrual cycles are governed by the moon, will not get PMS. They will stop *****ing and whining."

One disgusted listener said: "He is appealing to the lowest common denominator."

AnimatedSnow47
04-26-2005, 10:08 AM
Finally! I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Of course, many women are intelligent and statistically more women attend college--and quite a few men I know are inept. However, there are smart, intelligent, well-mannered men out there--what happened to the Ward Cleaver's and Spock's of TV.

All of the sitcoms have feature dumb males it seems--sexually obssessed, inept, uncreative, ill-mannered, and often mean-natured.

I'm not asking for dumb women on TV, but a positive comedic role model would be good. (An action-comedy series I write stars a male character who is inteligent, creative, and gentlemanly, only the evil men are dumb, of course--to show that evil is dumb, not men)

Commercials are the same way. How about some men advertisting the latest Swiffer or Lysol? That would work. Because, contrary to popular belief, some of us can and do clean. (And, anyone that says that their spouse/parent/etc. does nothing while you're at work is wrong)