The Goofy/Pluto Scenario: When Species Collide

[Anthonynotes]

As we all know, Goofy is an anthropomorized dog who walks on his hind legs, talks, and is (vaguely) intelligent.

As we *also* know, Goofy's friend Mickey has a pet dog named Pluto, who walks on all fours, merely barks, and has canine-level intelligence.

Question is: how many cartoons have shown both anthropomorized and *non-anthropomorized* versions of the same animal together?

My list:
- Huckleberry Hound in one episode was a mailman, and spent the story dealing with (relatively ordinary) barking dogs trying to thwart his mail delivery efforts.

- Quickdraw McGraw would often be shown riding a (relatively ordinary) horse---and was driving a stagecoach pulled by said type of horses in the title scene of his own show. The 80's TV-movie "The Good, The Bad, and Huckleberry" (sp?) played this up further---Quickdraw's horse was IIRC dispensing advice to him (esp. when Quickdraw himself got reduced to being ridden on by some kids at one point in the film).

- "Arthur": The various animals also have pet dogs, cats, etc. One character (a dog teacher) even had as a hobby grooming *dogs* for competition!

[Jave]

In a Donald Duck comic (dunno the name), Donald is seen hunting real ducks.

In a Mickey comic (again, don't know the name) Minnie sees a real mouse and gets scared.

In a Tiny Toons episode, Babs get turned by a witch into a real rabbit.

This one perhaps doesn't count, but in an episode of Duckman, Cornfred is seen eating a hotdog, implying that there are real pigs in the Duckman universe.

[straw_hat]

Dragon Ball- Back when the manga/anime was filled with anthromorphic characters. One example is a dinner scene where Oolong the pig is sitting at the table while a roasted pig is laying amongst the food.

[TimTwoFace]

"GOOF TROOP" did a very similar thing; Pete's dog was a normal dog, but Goofy was more "humanoid". Conversely, Goofy's cat was a normal cat but Pete himself is, apparently, a cat.

-Tim

[Anthonynotes]

Others I could think of:

A Mickey Mouse theatrical cartoon where he's shown working in a lab and experimenting on a "real" mouse.

The Tiny Toons episode where Plucky goes south for the winter with "real" ducks.

Pokemon: Apparently (from what I'd seen) Meowth acts like an actual person instead of some dumb little creature like the other Poke-crittters...

Family Guy: (Long as I'm dredging up shows I don't like) Brian the dog is anthropomorized, while the other dogs mostly aren't.


My only explanation for all of this phenomena (besides the ever-popular "just a cartoon d00d" excuse):

Eons ago, certain animals (in worlds like "Arthur" or whatever) branched off and began to evolve from being four-legged creatures into two-legged creatures with the ability to walk, talk, watch TV, wage war, etc., and other stuff only highly-evolved sentient beings could do; the creatures that *didn't* evolve remained as, well, four-legged non-sentient creatures (all similar to humans and apes sharing a common ancestor/humans evolving away from being apes). Hence, Goofy's dog lineage became sentient beings, while Pluto's remained eating kibble from a bowl.

As for beings like the dog-teacher in "Arthur" as a dog groomer, I'm sure it's akin to humans keeping chimpanzees.

Well, it's *my* theory, anyway. ;-)

[Sharklady]

^ That's as good a theory as any.

They made a visual joke about this dualism in 'Fantasia 2000'. In the 'Pomp and Circumstance' segment, Donald Duck is Noah's assistant, helping to load animals onto the Ark. He does a double-take after directing a pair of mallards aboard.

[Jave]

Pokemon: Apparently (from what I'd seen) Meowth acts like an actual person instead of some dumb little creature like the other Poke-crittters...Well, there's a whole episode that explains how come Meowth does speak and acts more human, unlike every other pokemon.

[Lehteb]

There was one Goofy cartoon, called "Man's Best Friend" (1952), where the dog learns how to take care of ... a dog!

I've always wondered why Goofy never took care of Pluto. :confused:

[Waylaid]

Is this scenario closer to Man/Ape?

[Bunai]

My answer.
i think what you are suppose to see is Goofy's character and apperance is that of a dog, but hes not really a K9 (dog).
think of it as a skin.
Mickey Mouse is only a mouse by looks and by last name, but the way he acts is certainly not mouse like at all, he's quite humanoid...a bit childish too.

looking for similar topics :anime: i found this



Doo Wop
It's a freakin' cartoon not Wildlife on One.
But to answer the question - Goofy and Pluto are both dogs. Goofy is a human type of character whereas Pluto is an animal type character. It's as simple as that. The End.

http://www.gadzillionthings.net/Think72.html (http://www.gadzillionthings.net/Think72.html)

Why does Donald Duck never wear pants but wears a towel in the shower? (Contributed by Don F.) :anime:


Pluto compared to other dogs in animation shorts, is also more anthro then the ones he meets, his crush is a little brown Daschund, his rival is usually a big gray Bulldog. Pluto is often seen carrying flowers and chocolates (even though its poison to dogs) in his paws, which are morphed -for scenes- into fingers. his legs certainly are not that of an average dog. he has floppy ears to give that more 'Fido' goodboy look, but he is of no particular breed. you can assume hes a GreatDane or Afghan hound since he is so big.

the answers to this vary because different artist have their own way of creating their characters, and if they want the character to look like one thing but act different from what it is without explanation they can.

Astro/Atom boy is a robot, but has the apperance of a male human child, but he's not what someone would call human, since being human varies on different points.

i've seen toons and read comics where the species of the character is usually how they would act but still have a humanoid quality about them. Captin Simon for example.


for more Pop artist this is an on running joke, but really its just something you're not suppose to think about. they are just characters.

[candy17]

I've always wondered why Goofy never took care of Pluto. :confused:
'Cuz Goofy's an idiot. :shrug:

Anyway, I don't have any examples of cartoons that show both anthropomorized and *non-anthropomorized* versions of the same animal either in the same episode or in different episodes, but I remember in this Porky/Daffy cartoon called "Fool Coverage", there was one part where Daffy is next to a can of lard. Considering that lard is pig fat (which is what Porky is: a fat pig), wouldn't anyone find this odd?



Why does Donald Duck never wear pants but wears a towel in the shower? (Contributed by Don F.)

I've been wondering about that for most (if not all) of the Looney Tunes characters that are animals (Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Sylvester the Cat, Pepe Le Pew, Porky Pig, etc), especially with Porky Pig, since he almost never wears pants.

But what really confuses me with Looney Tunes is that if the animal character is in a place with a lot of people, why do the people treat the animal as if it's a person?

[Bunai]

'Cuz Goofy's an idiot. :shrug:
But what really confuses me with Looney Tunes is that if the animal character is in a place with a lot of people, why do the people treat the animal as if it's a person?
its a character
it really shouldn't be confusing at all.

and for a lot of animators pants/shirt less characters are usually a gag or done so the character looks semi dressed since they are upright it gives some kind of incline to nudity. or just done because some people like clothes on animals. there are just too many reasons to this...

but i really think it just comes down to a characters personality that would make them who they are. Porky can easily be drawn as a Puppy, or a Mouse

[Anthonynotes]

>> Waylaid Is this scenario closer to Man/Ape?

What my theory basically says, yes. (Though I'd imagine the creationists wouldn't be too thrilled about my theory... ;-) ).

>>But what really confuses me with Looney Tunes is that if the animal character is in a place with a lot of people, why do the people treat the animal as if it's a person?


Because they're obviously sentient beings, and thus treated like humans, I'd presume.

("Sentient" is a word usually meaning "having human-level self-awareness and qualities," and thus a word often found in science-fiction to describe nonhuman lifeforms that're like us---i.e. able to think, communicate, etc. like humans. In this case, I figure Goofy has human-level intelligence/sentience, while Pluto, though a smart dog, is pretty much (cartoonish) canine-level intelligence/sentience...).

-B.

[Hordesman]

My only explanation for all of this phenomena (besides the ever-popular "just a cartoon d00d" excuse):

Eons ago, certain animals (in worlds like "Arthur" or whatever) branched off and began to evolve from being four-legged creatures into two-legged creatures with the ability to walk, talk, watch TV, wage war, etc., and other stuff only highly-evolved sentient beings could do; the creatures that *didn't* evolve remained as, well, four-legged non-sentient creatures (all similar to humans and apes sharing a common ancestor/humans evolving away from being apes). Hence, Goofy's dog lineage became sentient beings, while Pluto's remained eating kibble from a bowl. There's also the possiblity suggested in "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" volume 2. Dr. Moreau is in hiding, surrounded by his latest creations. They include a number of anthromorphic characters from turn-of-the-century children's books, such as Rupert Bear and characters from Beatrix Potter and "Wind in the Willows". The LoXG universe basically encompasses all fictional worlds with characters appearing around their date-of-publication or through ancestors/descendants. So Bugs Bunny would appear in the 1940s as either a descendant of one of Moreau's creations, or (more likely imo) a mutant created from extensions made from Moreau's initial research. As it pertains to Mickey, it means that mutanimals by the second or third decade of the twentieth century were human-like enough to have regular pets of their own.

[Anthonynotes]

There's also the possiblity suggested in "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" volume 2. Dr. Moreau is in hiding, surrounded by his latest creations. They include a number of anthromorphic characters from turn-of-the-century children's books, such as Rupert Bear and characters from Beatrix Potter and "Wind in the Willows". The LoXG universe basically encompasses all fictional worlds with characters appearing around their date-of-publication or through ancestors/descendants. So Bugs Bunny would appear in the 1940s as either a descendant of one of Moreau's creations, or (more likely imo) a mutant created from extensions made from Moreau's initial research. As it pertains to Mickey, it means that mutanimals by the second or third decade of the twentieth century were human-like enough to have regular pets of their own.

Interesting, though it doesn't explain, say, seeing ancient ancestors of the "Arthur" gang (i.e., Copernicus in the "Arthur" animated series' universe was a human-like rat resembling Mr. Ratburn, etc. [though the original books did show actual humans, and the "Postcards From Buster" spinoff series seems to imply humans do coexist in their world *somewhere*]).

An amusing take on my "they evolved from lower lifeforms" (and not in the Pokemon sense!) theory was shown in the first story in the 80's comic "Capt. Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew". There, the anthropomorized animals' world were dealing with Starro attempting to de-evolve the denizens back into their "primitive" ancient ancestors---i.e., making them act like "normal" animals, etc. (various panels showing stuff like fully-clothed cats being chased by equally-clothed dogs, etc.). Eventually, of course, Starro's scheme is stopped.

A later comic showed that on their world, humans were considered mythical creatures (though the Crew had met Superman in said adventure above), with one of DC's old funny-animal characters (a wolf) being turned into a "Wuz-wolf"---i.e., a human with wolf-like sideburns. As a "wuz-wolf", he set out to try to get back at his old foe, Pig-Iron (formerly known as Peter Porkchops, another old DC funny-animal character) by eating him (which in their world was considered as being a "throwback" to said "primitive ancestors" described above).

But back to the topic at hand:

- In Laff-a-lympics, Wally Gator once lead a stream of (regular) gators across a river.

-B.

[Hordesman]

Interesting, though it doesn't explain, say, seeing ancient ancestors of the "Arthur" gang (i.e., Copernicus in the "Arthur" animated series' universe was a human-like rat resembling Mr. Ratburn, etc.
There, you'd have to go with some of the Greek gods and Shakespeare's Puck, changing into animals or others into animals resepctively- with generations descending from them.

[Anthonynotes]

There, you'd have to go with some of the Greek gods and Shakespeare's Puck, changing into animals or others into animals resepctively- with generations descending from them.

Maybe, though seems kind of convoluted to me (much as I like the Greco-Roman deities ;-) ) ---I'll stick with my simpler-sounding (and not involving divine intervention) evolution theory... :-)

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Another example would be in "Scooby-Doo and the alien invaders" were scooby, who has almost human itellgance and can stand on his own two feet when he wants fancys that other dog, who cant stnad on 2 legs or talk properlly

[MonkeyFunk]

Raccoons had a really weird variation on all this. One aarvark, Cyril Sneer, acted like a human, but he had a pet aardvark that acted like... a dog.

[Hordesman]

Maybe, though seems kind of convoluted to me (much as I like the Greco-Roman deities ;-) ) ---I'll stick with my simpler-sounding (and not involving divine intervention) evolution theory... :-)
There's also human-human devil fruit that shows up later on One Piece- basically it enables any animal that eats it to become humanlike/

[Scythemantis]

Pokemon: Apparently (from what I'd seen) Meowth acts like an actual person instead of some dumb little creature like the other Poke-crittters...

Actually, most of the "poke-critters" are portrayed as having humanlike intelligence, they just don't speak. Meowth taught himself to act human through rigorous training to impress a female of his kind, but she only found him "freakish", and so did most other humans and pokemon. Basically, plenty of other pokemon (perhaps all of them) are capable of the same thing, they just don't have incentive and it's not "acceptable". There have been a couple others who can talk, though.


With Brian, it's just intentionally confusing and nonsensical, but has been acknowledged plenty of times, most amusingly when Peter in one episode just suddenly and randomly shouts "Oh my god!..............YOU CAN TALK!"

[mammy2shoesfan]

I remeber the ep of Alvin and the Chipmonks were they meet their mother most most of the animals in the forest acted like regluer animals while the chipmonks and their mother spoke and did human like things sorry I don't remeber the ep that good because its been like 10 years since I last saw that. Also a special a few years ago (when USA) still showed cartoons they had a Chimpmonks speical some hoilday speical and the chipmonk's relatives visted (not their mother) but they all acted like little forest animals not like the chipmonks.

With Scooby Doo the genrel rule is that and his family members (Scooby-Dum, Dee, Mom and Pop, Scrappy, and Dynomutt) can talk and do human like things but no other animals can.

[Anthonynotes]

I remeber the ep of Alvin and the Chipmonks were they meet their mother most most of the animals in the forest acted like regluer animals while the chipmonks and their mother spoke and did human like things sorry I don't remeber the ep that good because its been like 10 years since I last saw that. Also a special a few years ago (when USA) still showed cartoons they had a Chimpmonks speical some hoilday speical and the chipmonk's relatives visted (not their mother) but they all acted like little forest animals not like the chipmonks.

With Scooby Doo the genrel rule is that and his family members (Scooby-Dum, Dee, Mom and Pop, Scrappy, and Dynomutt) can talk and do human like things but no other animals can.

1. Dynomutt's not a "Doo" family member, just a friend.

2. Dynomutt's an android...hence, talking wouldn't be a problem for him at all.

There's more Doo family members than those listed, of course...

[Cartman]

At the beginning of an older WB cartoon called Porky's Pooch, there is a Scottish terrier looking in the window of a cafe at an anthropomorphic dog making pancakes.

[Mynd Hed]

I always wondered if there are ever any problems with race relations between the duck people (Scrooge, Donald, Daisy, etc.) and the dog people (Goofy, Max, etc.), which seem to be the two most numerous anthropomorphisms in the Disneyverse. Y'know, a Klu Dux Klan that hates dogs, or a Malcom Rex who militantly opposes feathered oppression, that sort of thing.

...But that's just my strange brain at work.

[mammy2shoesfan]

1. Dynomutt's not a "Doo" family member, just a friend.

2. Dynomutt's an android...hence, talking wouldn't be a problem for him at all.

There's more Doo family members than those listed, of course...
Oh yeah I know they are more Doos just don't remember all the names. But thats a big suprise I never knew that Dynomutt wasn't a member of the Doo clan I always he was like Inspecter Gadget or like a Cyborg dog. But hey I also always thought that Shaggy was related to Alexander and Alexandra I still trying to find where I got that from. lol

[Anthonynotes]

Oh yeah I know they are more Doos just don't remember all the names. But thats a big suprise I never knew that Dynomutt wasn't a member of the Doo clan I always he was like Inspecter Gadget or like a Cyborg dog. But hey I also always thought that Shaggy was related to Alexander and Alexandra I still trying to find where I got that from. lol

Probably from that Scooby Doo-meets-Josie and the Pussycats episode of "The New Scooby-Doo Movies", and that Casey Kasem did both Alexander and Shaggy's voices...

[mammy2shoesfan]

Probably from that Scooby Doo-meets-Josie and the Pussycats episode of "The New Scooby-Doo Movies", and that Casey Kasem did both Alexander and Shaggy's voices...
I know that episode but I could have sworn there was a reference to them being family. Then again when I first saw those 20 plus years ago so I just might have imaged it like I did when I thought that there was punching in Superfriends until they started playing them again a few years ago. Heck I'm also one of those crazy people that swore there were eps of Transformers after Rebirth lol.

[rodineisilveira]

As we all know, Goofy is an anthropomorized dog who walks on his hind legs, talks, and is (vaguely) intelligent.

As we *also* know, Goofy's friend Mickey has a pet dog named Pluto, who walks on all fours, merely barks, and has canine-level intelligence.

Question is: how many cartoons have shown both anthropomorized and *non-anthropomorized* versions of the same animal together?

My list:
- Huckleberry Hound in one episode was a mailman, and spent the story dealing with (relatively ordinary) barking dogs trying to thwart his mail delivery efforts.

- Quickdraw McGraw would often be shown riding a (relatively ordinary) horse---and was driving a stagecoach pulled by said type of horses in the title scene of his own show. The 80's TV-movie "The Good, The Bad, and Huckleberry" (sp?) played this up further---Quickdraw's horse was IIRC dispensing advice to him (esp. when Quickdraw himself got reduced to being ridden on by some kids at one point in the film).

- "Arthur": The various animals also have pet dogs, cats, etc. One character (a dog teacher) even had as a hobby grooming *dogs* for competition!São Paulo - SP, Brazil, October 17, 2005 (We're now on the Brazilian saving time!)

Hello, Brainatra and HB-fanatics from the whole world!

Talking about Huckleberry Hound, there are five episodes from The Huckleberry Hound Show (1958-62), where Huck had problems with a full-tricked dog (who laughs like Muttley [courtesy of Don Messick]), who gave many work for him (Huck).
This tricky dog appeared in various episodes from Huckleberry Hound. And here are they:

- Fireman Huck

- Barbecue Hound
http://www.melaman2.com/cartoons/singles/stills/H/huck5.jpg

- Postman Panic
http://services.windowsmedia.com/video/cov120/drv000/v090/v09075bpfaw.jpg Here's a cover of a Huckleberry Hound VHS tape, which brings a scene from this episode.

- A Bully Dog (or Postman Panic II)
http://www.tv-nostalgie.de/Sound/Hucky6.jpg

- Nutts Over Mutts
http://www.toonarific.com/pics_root/00001706/huckleberry8.gif

This will serve to refresh your minds.
Well, that's it!
Ciao!

Cheers from this faithful friend who always writes 4 U,

Rodinei Campos da Silveira (from São Paulo, Brazil)
Meet me on my e-mails: mailto:rodinei@starmedia.com (rodinei@starmedia.com), mailto:rodineic@excite.com (rodineic@excite.com), mailto:rodineisilveira@bol.com.br (rodineisilveira@bol.com.br) or mailto:rcsbrasil@mort.zzn.com (rcsbrasil@mort.zzn.com). You're always wellcome!

http://www.retrotv.com.br/noticias/imagens/HuckleberryHound_V1.jpg "Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling Clementine..."

HANNA-BARBERA - FLINTSTONES - 45 YEARS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Huck.jpeg
http://www.skool-days.co.uk/images/huckle.jpg

Attention, HB-fans! The Hanna-Barbera building is saved from demolition! Let's continue to preserve this wonderful building!

LONG LIFE FOR WILLIAM HANNA & JOSEPH BARBERA!

:cool:

[Pugs Malone]

I always wondered if there are ever any problems with race relations between the duck people (Scrooge, Donald, Daisy, etc.) and the dog people (Goofy, Max, etc.), which seem to be the two most numerous anthropomorphisms in the Disneyverse. Y'know, a Klu Dux Klan that hates dogs, or a Malcom Rex who militantly opposes feathered oppression, that sort of thing.

...But that's just my strange brain at work.
You might enjoy this.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3194

[Sharklady]

> Talking about Huckleberry Hound, there are five episodes from The Huckleberry Hound Show (1958-62), where Huck had problems with a full-tricked dog (who laughs like Muttley [courtesy of Don Messick]), who gave many work for him (Huck). <

IIRC, that dog was named Mr. Muggins (this was mentioned when Huck encountered the owner at the end of the 'Postman' ep.)

[Atoon]

In the Cow and Chicken episode "Cow Instinct... Don't it?" Cow is with non-anthropomorphic cows, and Cow gets frustrated because she can't interact with them.

[judyindisguise]

As we all know, Goofy is an anthropomorized dog who walks on his hind legs, talks, and is (vaguely) intelligent.

As we *also* know, Goofy's friend Mickey has a pet dog named Pluto, who walks on all fours, merely barks, and has canine-level intelligence.

Question is: how many cartoons have shown both anthropomorized and *non-anthropomorized* versions of the same animal together?

My list:
- Huckleberry Hound in one episode was a mailman, and spent the story dealing with (relatively ordinary) barking dogs trying to thwart his mail delivery efforts.

- Quickdraw McGraw would often be shown riding a (relatively ordinary) horse---and was driving a stagecoach pulled by said type of horses in the title scene of his own show. The 80's TV-movie "The Good, The Bad, and Huckleberry" (sp?) played this up further---Quickdraw's horse was IIRC dispensing advice to him (esp. when Quickdraw himself got reduced to being ridden on by some kids at one point in the film).

- "Arthur": The various animals also have pet dogs, cats, etc. One character (a dog teacher) even had as a hobby grooming *dogs* for competition!I have always, always hated the mix of sentient/non-sentient animals in cartoons. It's jarring and just plain weird. One of the reasons why, although I love Mickey Mouse, I don't much care for the world he lives in. Why I prefer the Looney Tunes world. In that world, although Bugs is essentially human, he lives in a hole in the ground instead of in the suburbs. He's still a RABBIT.

Getting back to Mickey, I did notice in the "Three Musketeers" that Mickey's specie - as well as Donald's - was actually commented on. That's something rare in Disney toons I believe. And it's one of the things about "Musketeers" I liked.

I will say that recently Disney came up with a sort-of-clever explanation for the Goofy/Pluto dichotomy: USA Today "interviewed" Goofy and asked him about it, and he said, "Well, I guess I'm the missing link between dog and man!" Not bad...

[judyindisguise]

C.S. Lewis dealt with the talking/non-talking animal problem in his Narnia series this way: Aslan, the god-lion, chose one pair of each type of animal to be Talking Beasts, while the rest of the animals not chosen were typical non-sentient animals who could be hunted etc. So you could see a Talking Stag in Narnia yet hunt a non-talking stag. It sort of worked. Sort of...