YTV To Air JLU "The Balance" (Aired, SPOILERS)

[bobspoland]

i was on the ytv site today and its confirmed the balance will be shown on friday the 22nd at 9pm. the plot line is "Wonder Woman and Hawk Girl battle Felix Faust in the depths of Tartarus"

[Knight]

Im not particularly hyped up for this ep like I was the last episode but it should be entertaining.

[Hero Supreme]

mmm... tartar sauce

[James Harvey]

Here's the official desciption of the episode from our Justice League Unlimited subsite (http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/):

Episode #18 - The Balance

Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl must put aside their feud and go to the depths of Tartarus when the evil sorcerer Felix Faust establishes dominion over Hades.

[JLfan4life]

i can't wait...i've been looking forward to this episode too!! time for some unresolved differences to be resolved... :anime:

[Simpler Simon]

On a personal note, the good news is that by the time this episode airs, I'll have written both of my university exams and be ready to properly start summer break.

The bad news is that I have to write 2 exams before this episode airs.

Still, here's hoping this episode rocks. IMDB has confirmed that Robert Englund and John Rhys Davies will reprise their roles as Faust and Hades respectively, so there's a treat right there. I don't think the fight scenes will match 'Task Force X' or 'Cat and Canary' - they seem to be more all-out brawls like 'Ties That Bind'. But the animation for those fire demons does look promising though. Plus our two female leads will hopefully settle their differences - if not, we'll have to wait till next season when JLU gives us a jello-wrestling episode.

[DisneyBoy]

Sure, the fire demons look decent, but neither Diana nor Shayera do from the previews (Seperate thought: who designed HG's tracksuit? It's hideous!). My expectations are both high and low for this episode. Glad I don't have to wait long to see it....

[Knight]

I loved it when it was annoucnced that Shayera would be maskless but the new outfit isnt that great, Im sure they will get to changing it at some point though

[bobspoland]

I loved it when it was annoucnced that Shayera would be maskless but the new outfit isnt that great, Im sure they will get to changing it at some point though
i argee the outfit isnt that good. wonder if she will become Hawkwoman at some point. but as b.t said, shes too pretty too give her a mask again. bigfan of HG looking forward too this one :D

[Style]

I really, really hope J'onn prefaces his mission briefing by telling Wonderwoman and Shayera to "Go to Hell!" ;)

[Devils_Advocate]

I loved it when it was annoucnced that Shayera would be maskless but the new outfit isnt that great, Im sure they will get to changing it at some point though
i argee the outfit isnt that good. wonder if she will become Hawkwoman at some point. but as b.t said, shes too pretty too give her a mask again. bigfan of HG looking forward too this one :DI must be poster that likes Hawkgirl's costume. For one, it is the only practical outfit in the league. What can be more practical than a work out suit? It is flexible, made to be durable and its breaths. All things necessary for one exerting oneself. Further, it does not stand out in a crowd which is good so maybe the enemy may not see you coming from 600 feet away and thereby have less time to prepare for the attack.

D_A

[Shark]

I must be poster that likes Hawkgirl's costume. For one, it is the only practical outfit in the league. What can be more practical than a work out suit? It is flexible, made to be durable and its breaths. All things necessary for one exerting oneself. Further, it does not stand out in a crowd which is good so maybe the enemy may not see you coming from 600 feet away and thereby have less time to prepare for the attack.
True, it may allow others to blend in with a crowd, but in Shayera's case, those massive wings would probably give her away rather quickly.

[Revelator]

I must be poster that likes Hawkgirl's costume. For one, it is the only practical outfit in the league....Further, it does not stand out in a crowd
A superhero costume that's practical and doesn't stand out in the crowd? Madness!! Isn't there some unwritten law that states all superhero costumes must be garishly unpractical and look like an imploded crayon box? I'm fine with HG's new duds (IIRC Timm designed them) but wish there was a touch or two of the gaudiness one's come to expect in classic superhero outfits.
Anyway, Felix Faust and Hades are among the least interesting JL villains (and except for the Superman/Diana fight the dullest aspects of "Paradise Lost") but I'm pretty sure this episode will be pretty good regardless, even (or especially) if it was a 22 minute catfight. I wouldn't mind long scenes of Diana and Shayera snarling at each other, though a mud wrestling bout is probably out of the question.

[JWangSDC]

The real question is....is YTV going to continue to air new episodes after "The Balance"

[John Cage]

This should be a good one (aren't they all?). The tension between Shayera and Wonder Woman should be interesting to watch play out, and I'm pretty glad they aren't bringing back Faust in a traditional sense, meaning he really did die in "Paradise Lost". I mean come on -- Faust was, like, the first DCAU character to have a major onscreen death! Not that I'm obcessed with death or anything.

*cough*

Have a good day then.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

[Pepperidge]

The real question is....is YTV going to continue to air new episodes after "The Balance"
Double Date is scheduled for the following week. I think it's pretty clear that they have no intention of voluntarily stopping, and chances are good that they will have the final two episodes in their hands by the time they're completed.

[John Cage]

...And chances are good that they will have the final two episodes in their hands by the time they're completed.
Which would be great! If you live in Canada, that is.

But hey, we didn't get JLU until, like, two months after you guys, so it balances out, right?

Have a good day then.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

[DisneyBoy]

Mr Pepperidge, I have to ask...can we hold you to that statement? Are you "in the know" or a fan logically deducing...?

[Pepperidge]

Oh, I'm just logically deducing based on the production schedule that b.t. has expressed so far. YTV has confirmed that new episodes will be running until "early summer", though.

[Ms. Kitty]

This calls for my happy dance icon!!http://img186.echo.cx/img186/2112/447yh.gif

[J-Ranger]

I spoke with a YTV representative a month ago and she told me that YTV plans on airing brand new episodes every friday night until June 30th 2005. Now YTV has been known to change its mind from time to time but she assured me that this schedule won't change. I just hope that she is right because I love Justice League

[Requiem]

I really, really hope J'onn prefaces his mission briefing by telling Wonderwoman and Shayera to "Go to Hell!" ;) ...I demand that line be inserted if it's not already!:D

And joy for new episodes!

[DisneyBoy]

I'm nervous, slightly upset/worried...I'm feeling all sorts of things. As a Wonder Woman fan, tonight's episode could mean a lot in terms of cementing who she is in the DCAU, and I hope I like what I see. Of course, there's a huge possibility the whole episode may just be nothing more than another pleasant romp with Hades and Faust, rather than a character-defining homecoming for the Princess of the Amazons.


Anyone else been thinking a lot about this episode, or am I the only one?

[JWangSDC]

thinkin it won't be worth much. Can't wait for double date and then Question Authority-> the rest


I'm nervous, slightly upset/worried...I'm feeling all sorts of things. As a Wonder Woman fan, tonight's episode could mean a lot in terms of cementing who she is in the DCAU, and I hope I like what I see. Of course, there's a huge possibility the whole episode may just be nothing more than another pleasant romp with Hades and Faust, rather than a character-defining homecoming for the Princess of the Amazons.


Anyone else been thinking a lot about this episode, or am I the only one?

[bobspoland]

I'm going to make one prediction before this episode airs...

The clips of the Annihilator and Tala seen at the end of "The Doomsday Sanction" and "Task Force X" are from "The Balance."
nah. that would mean cadmus is involed!!!

[Yojimbo]

nah. that would mean cadmus is involed!!!
I believe Tala has her own agenda and was merely using Cadmus to her own means. Hopefully most of Tala's character was translated into JLU, then she is actually a heavy hitter in the mystic villain category. She may have some purpose for the Annihlator that factors into possibly Faust's ascension in Hell.

[V.L.]

Interesting, I didn't expect Felix Faust's soul to be in the Annihilator. Either Cadmus is directly involved or there's a rogue faction within the organisation itself. Either way, it looks like one heck of a diversion (if that is indeed what setting Faust loose on Tarterus is supposed to be).

edit: Caught the midnight airing (missed the sequence before the opening theme) so that certainly explains it. I don't think Cadmus saw that one coming

[J-Ranger]

This episode was alright, really nothing special, but good nonetheless. I mostly enjoy the closing sequences with........

Batman, Superman, & Metemorpho fighting Parasite and someone else (I forget who). And all the Capt Marvel clips (yay)

[bobspoland]

any clips with some certian winged people in the previews??

[V.L.]

Also, unless I'm mistaken, this episode features the first appearance of the lasso of truth (used to compel someone to speak the truth anyway and not just as a lasso)

After watching the clips at the end, I really want to watch The Clash. Ah well, I can wait.

[DisneyBoy]

Oh dear....


...well there I have it. Everything I've been complaining about for months. Is Hades Diana's father? Did she steal the armor? Is the hunk of rope a lasso of truth? Will her banishment ever be lifted? All questions answered...

...and yup, I'm disappointed. Royally. If the animation hadn't been total crud, it may have made this episode slightly enjoyable. Instead, I felt like a kid on his birthday, being given everything he asked for by scornful parents who then demand, "Happy now?"

Why did this episode have to be funny at all? Why couldn't Hermes have been a serious character? Why did the JLU's magical members have to be affected? Why couldn't Hermes have just shown up tout suite and laid down the situation? Why would Diana STEAL the mace? Why IS she, guys? A KLEPTO or something?

I moan and weep and roll my eyes. This wasn't what I wanted. This was just an "Are you happy now that we did it" run of the mill mess.

When this Justice League series was first announced, I'd hoped to finally see Wonder Woman, the biggest female superhero icon, to finally get some awesome animated treatment by the Dini/Timm group who had done such justice to Batman and Superman. Who had shown they cared.

Maybe this was supposed to show they cared about Wonder Woman, but that's not the impression I'm walking away with. She's been dealt a low blow to be featured on a series that aspires to offer the best depictions of these iconic characters. A low blow indeed.

I honestly see no point to me even talking about Wonder Woman anymore, which I'm sure will be a blessing to those of you who have tired of it. As far as I'm concerned, she's not even on this show. Throw her in the back seat with Batman. Have her go shopping at the Gap with Vixen. It just doesn't matter anymore.

*walks away*

[AllisterH]

It does seem like Diana gets stuck with the lower-end scripts when she is the focus.

After watching the Balance, I kind of see where people have complained about Diana's treatment. A really ho-hum episode.

[Simpler Simon]

Hmmm...I thought the episode was solid. Nothing overly mind-blowing like last week's Task Force X, but a great way to spend 30 minutes. Above-average animation, pretty much on par with last week's episode. Really, my only gripe is that the Annihilator subplot seems to have finished here, in an incident completely unrelated to Cadmus. One can only wonder what they'd planned to do with the suit now....

4 stars.

[J-Ranger]

Really, my only gripe is that the Annihilator subplot seems to have finished here, in an incident completely unrelated to Cadmus. One can only wonder what they'd planned to do with the suit now....
That's what I was wondering too, it really seemed like a waste. I just hope they don't pull a "we build our own Annihilator" or "Hephestas created more then one Annihilator".

[DisneyBoy]

No Thanagarians.

[Yojimbo]

Who else appeared besides whose been already revealed (WW, Shayera, Faust, Hades, J'onn, Etrigan, Flash, Hermes)?

[JThree]

Guys:

Since someone was kind enough last week to email me spoilers on "Task Force X" could someone be so kind enough to do the same for "Balance."

Sincerely,

JThree
carolyn@dia.net

[V.L.]

Who else appeared besides whose been already revealed (WW, Shayera, Faust, Hades, J'onn, Etrigan, Flash, Hermes)? For cameos that had no dialogue, I noticed: The Atom, Dr. Light, Ice, Fire, Dr. Fate, and Zatanna (just off the top of my head). I can pay more attention when I catch it again at midnight. Not a big suprise but Hippolyta is in the episode as well (since it was known the episode involved a trip to Tarterus, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that there'd be a visit to Themiscyra).

edit: Add Huntress, Aztek, Vigilante, Shining Knight, Booster Gold, and Gypsy to the list of cameos.

The clips at the end also showed clips from what I assume to be Double Date and at least one other episode (aside from The Clash). I noticed Batman throwing a batarang at Parasite, Superman and Batman each fighting off a foe (no idea who as one of them was off screen and I didn't pay attention to who Supes was fighting).

[WrenchNinja]

Hmm...who was that fat guy that Superman and Batman were fighting off along with Parasite? Metamorpho was fighting them too?

And some more Captain Marvel clips and some from Double Date...can't wait till it airs.

Anyways, the episode was okay. But I didn't like what they did with the Annihilator. It seems like a waste. All that trouble during "Task Force X" just to recover it...and this is what they show for. And is Tala still stuck in the mirror?

[Wizard]

I am not as dissapointed as Disney Boy over this episode, but I can understand his anger. It had three plots: the Cadmus Conspiracy, the lingering Shayera-related tensions from Starcrossed, and Wonder Woman's backstory. Any one would have made for a great story, and they could have combined any two for an also great story, but the split didn't really do the episode much good. The Cadmus bit was good- it seemed like it was there because they needed a way to make Faust a credible threat, but the way that it was presented made perfect sense (and frankly, after last week it felt good to see something go horribly wrong for the other side). The Shayera-Diana tension was also well presented, although I myself would have preferred to see non Big 7 heroes have to deal with working with Hawkgirl (Capt. Atom would work especially well for this). There wasn't a massive catfight, because the two are far too professional for that (and I am glad!), but the best part is that instead of becoming friends again, they reach a state of detente instead. Kudos for that.

The bit with the armour and lasso was trickier. It felt like it was too quickly glossed over, when more might have been made of it. A demon could have been captured from the initial assault, and Hippolyta could have used the lasso to get Faust's location from it, and then revealed that because the armour was stolen Diana can't use its full powers (granted, that scenario would have likely denied us the awesome cameo made later).

As for the revelation that Hades is Diana's father (insomuch as she has one), I'm of two minds. On one hand, it would have been more dramatic if Diana struggled with it, but on the other there is a certain je ne sais quois about Diana simply not caring.

Flash was at his best tonight. We even got a bit of his horny side, albeit for a good cause. Rosenbaum's delivery of his last speech in the commissary was brilliant. Speaking of brilliant- mad props to the genius that managed to work the Demons Three into this episode (Yes, I am a fanboy, thank you for asking). The only possible downside to their cameo is that it makes it that much harder to actually work them into a story now, because of the apparent de-powering.

Can anybody tell me what Zatanna was saying in the infirmary? M'i ton oot doog htiw eht sdrawkcab ognil!

[Trevor Balena]

As is often the case, I don't get where all the negativity for this episode is coming from. For me, there was only one problem with the episode: the fight scenes were somewhat visually uninteresting, due to the direction/storyboarding/animation/whatever.


Still, this didn't really bother me, because this episode wasn't about action, it was about character -- or characters. Both Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl had a lot of sharp, entertaining dialogue, especially when they were interacting with each other. To me, this was an excellent portrayal of Diana (who I agree has been handled somewhat schizophrenically in the past); here, she was confident, intelligent, resourceful, and powerful. She put her beef with Shayera aside for the mission, and even came to forgive her somewhat by the end. Plus, anyone who finds out that their "father" is an evil bastard and is comfortable enough with themself to basically say that they don't care gets points in my book.

Hawkgirl was similarly well-handled. She's apologized already, and now she has a job to do -- she's not going to get hung up on whether everyone likes her or not.

Even Flash got a great scene, which emphasized just how much his playboy demeanour is largely an act that serves to hide just how much he cares about these two women.

There were other things to enjoy about this episode, as well. It was great seeing some characters that we haven't seen in a while, such as Etrigan, Hippolyta, and even Faust and Hades. They all sounded like they had their original voice actors, but the credits went by too quickly for me to make sure (did anyone get a better look?). Heck, even Zatanna got a line in (even if I don't know what the hell she said), and that goes a long way.

Finally, we actually learned things about the characters here. Faust was Tala's teacher, Hades is Diana's "father", and Diana's lasso is the Lasso of Truth after all? Yikes.

Finally, a question: I wonder if we now know the weakness in Diana's armor that was referred to in "Hawk and Dove". Is it simply that it needed Hippolyta's intervention to achieve its full power? Because that's really more of a secret than a weakness, per se. Maybe it's yet to be revealed.

[Knight]

This was a good ep. I like it when we learn more of the characters.

Mild Review

It seems Tala is a student/former lover of Felix Faust and that she trapped his essence in a mirror after his "death" at the hands of Hades. We also see that Tala is using him to help her remove The Annihilators vulnerability. Unfortunately for Tala, Faust does a double cross and uses her to gain possession of The Annihilator for his own personal disembodied use while at the same time making her take up residence inside the mirror.

I liked the way Flash sets up a little face to face for Diana and Shayera by scheduling a dinner date with both of them for the same time. This of course doesn't work and the two end up getting up from the table and walking away.

While Diana is walking down one of The Watchtowers corridors she sees J'onn Struggling with The Demon who is in pain and agony along with Dr. Fate and Zatanna. J'onn deduces that something is having a affect on the magically powered members of The League and tells Diana when he learns more he will update her.

Diana continues on her way and reaches her room to which she see a shadowy figure laid out in her room who she thinks is The Flash. It however turns out to be the Olympian god of speed Hermes in his first animated appearance. He has a message for Diana from Zeus ordering her to set right what has been disturbed in tarturus by Faust. Hermes is actually pretty funny and witty. He also tells her that it is this disturbance that is affecting her friends in the infirmary.

Diana decides to go but she determines she needs something extra to combat the magical forces so she breaks into Shayeras room to borrow her mace because of its ability to disrupt magical forces. Shayera catches her and she decides that she is going to go with her.

Once there they witness the amazons trying to hold back the forces of Tarturs. Diana encounter her mother and tells her of her executive order to go into Tarturus to fix things. It is then that Hippolyta tells her that since she stole the armor that she was unaware of its full potential and presses the star on the tiara to fully activate it (this I have to say is a new take on WW's abilities).

After some fighting .They interrogate one of the inhabitants of Tarturs and it turns out that the lasso "IS" the lasso of truth and has been all this time (I guess she could never use this ability because her weaponry and armor weren't activated). The demon tells her everything she wants to know.

They locate Faust who banishes them to another part of Tarturus. Where they find a free Hades. Then together they all go back go back and beat the crap out of Faust. The Annihilator which Faust used as a body is destroyed by Diana (goodbye to Amanda Wallers weapon). In the after math of the fight Hades tells Diana that he is her father. Shayera tell her to use the lasso on him to see for sure but she refuses saying it doesn't matter and they leave.

The amazons rejoice and decide to have a dinner to celebrate and Hypolyta tells her daughter to say basically saying screw the rules violation she had made in the past.

As far as Diana and Shaera their differences are now settled and they are cool. The grudge between the two now is over.


My Thoughts

Diana is a demi god like Hercules I suppose. Since her "father" is a god.

I'm glad the lasso has its truth abilities. I wonder how Waller will counter this as she has J'onns mind reading power.

Wonder Woman's animated origin is so different from the comics that it may piss off hardcore fans. I like the animated Diana so I don't have a problem with it but I'm sure others might (I haven't read any of the talk back as of writing this). The eps about a 3.5 for me.

The previews looked great. More of Captain Marvel and him fighting in combat. Metamorpho fighting The Parasite. Scenes with Superman fighting against a mildly familiar villain who was the member of a team the League fought in the 80's issues of JL of A. But I cant place his name.

[Karkull]

Okay, this really screws up my take on Wonder Woman. If Hades is her father, is she still made out of clay, as it was alluded to in Maid of Honor? Oy...I have no idea how I'm going to update her character profile.

I'm also a little disappointed that Tala isn't the "Queen of Evil" that she is in the books. So she's just a mortal sorceress? Meh.

Still, I guess I shouldn't say anything until I see the episode. Fairness and all that...

[Indefatigable]

Honestly, thanks for the negative reviews, I was expecting much but I actually enjoyed the episode a lot, probably thanks in part to it exceeding my lowered expectations!

The lasso and father thing did go too fast, maybe we'll hear more in the future.

EDIT: Also, Hawkgirl's outfit's not bad now that I've actually seen in action.

And I can't wait for Double Date and The Clash. I'm glad they redesigned Huntress.

[Knight]

Okay, this really screws up my take on Wonder Woman. If Hades is her father, is she still made out of clay, as it was alluded to in Maid of Honor? Oy...I have no idea how I'm going to update her character profile.

It doesnt really contradict anything a whole lot. She is still made of clay but it was Hypolyta and Hades together who molded her . She was later brought to life while Hades was condemed without his knowledge which is why he was shocked that Hypolyta had a kid in Paradise Lost.

It also makes Hermes " Your practically a member of the faimily" line make for since.

[John Cage]

Okay, this really screws up my take on Wonder Woman. If Hades is her father, is she still made out of clay, as it was alluded to in Maid of Honor? Oy...I have no idea how I'm going to update her character profile.Diana's made of clay -- she was just sculpted by both Hippolyta AND Hades, making him, her father... sort of.


Hmm...who was that fat guy that Superman and Batman were fighting off along with Parasite? I'm pretty sure it's Black Mass, another of the obscure villains getting his animated due.

Anyway...

Hi there.

“The Balance” worked on a whole lot of levels -- adding to Wonder Woman mythos on the show, developing the characters and their ongoing story arcs, and for being a part of the greater Cadmus storyline running through the show, and that little touch of tying into previous, and I assume, future episodes, really adds to the episode more than if it were just a stand-alone episode. As a long-time viewer it’s great to see set up and the pay off over the span of the show, and it’s neat that style has carried over to the DCAU.

But enough about that, let’s talk about Wonder Woman, who really seems to shine under Dwayne McDuffie. She finally gets her magic lasso -- it turns out her armor wasn’t working at full power (was this the flaw alluded to in “Hawk and Dove”? If so, another example of extremely smart writing at work) and she gets powered up by her mother who also lets her back into Themyscera.
Diana also reveals her origin onscreen -- she was sculpted from clay, and yeah, I know we’re supposed to know this, but it’s nice to see it confirmed -- while her relationship with the Gods is cleared up a little bit, something that I never really understood on the show. She also learns who her dad might be, which is a nice bit of character drama and something I’m glad they went back to after so many years.

And hey! I almost forgot the best part! Jason Bateman, star of “Arrested Development”, the second best show on television, guests in this episode. It’s too bad he doesn’t play a JLer (meaning he’d have a shot at popping up again), but it’s really cool anyway.

Normally I find these “quiet” episodes kind of boring, but JLU has really amped everything up and this was a fantastic episode. Too bad it looks like I'm in the minority on that, huh.

Next week: “Double Date”.

Have a good day then.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

[paulie]

The good: we get a wee bit of explanation about where Flash was in S1...his "everyman" voice is really needed in this show. We get some great dialogue and character moments from everybody. It's basically a sequel to "Paradise Lost", and I'm glad that Hippolyta decreed that Diana could stay on the island for now. Shayera's uber-practical/slightly annoyed attitude was entertaining as ever (my favorite part of the episode was "I'm an angel!" heh).

The bad: after 4 episodes where the pacing finally felt comfortable, "The Balance" was rushed...just too much stuff going on, what with trying to juggle Cadmus, HG/WW tension, and WW origin.

[Karkull]

Okay, so Hades' claim to Diana's parentage was that he helped Hippolyta form her clay body? If that's the case it doesn't necessarily negate my profile. Yay!

I still like the other, more twisted theory that Vandal Savage is Diana's father (her father in the comics was an unnamed caveman, Savage was a caveman).

[bobspoland]

well this was ok. i say ok cause it made me laugh but that was it. Flash was funny, trying to get HG and WW too talk again. i also noticed that WW now referes too her as Shayera. Shayera and WW comments to each other made me laugh aswell. I liked the angel part aswell! I did enjoy the storyline aswell.

There was good charater development of wonder woman, finding out how she became, and Hades help her mother sculpted her. and now her amour is at full power. Wonder who would win in a smackdown with her and superman hehe

Well where too start what i didnt like about it. I didnt like the fact that Faust took the Annihilator amour. I expected Faust too destory the mirror Tala was in, only too adjust it!! (classic :p)although the good work that was done in the last epsiode was for nothing. the amour is now destoryed, Tala is stuck in the mirror. so i ask what was the point of the last epsiode!!!

did anyone else notice shayera voice changing once they got too tarturs. she sounded like a boy, i didnt like it and its not the first time its happened on JLU. "The ties that bind" Jonn voice was different when they tricked Granny Goodness. i get the feeling that the voice overs where rush. or maybe Maria Canals wasnt avaiable at that point too finish it off?? i dont know, but i would rather see completed epsiodes, with the characters having the same voice all the way throught!!!

Also i was disappointed there was no referance too between GL and Shayera.

i give this one a 2 star, it would have been less if it wasnt for Shayera being in this epsiode.

Now too the previews. looking forward too seeing Metamorpho back and the superman capt marvel fight!

[JWangSDC]

this was a great episode. I think Diana's weakness is being tied up....they kinda hint it when faust puts her in all that bondage.


I think JLU is absolutely hilarious....has such a different feel from JL. Def more geared towards adults. "That's right...Im' an angel..." Uhm are there angels in greek mythology? Zeus is god, not god right? Still it was hilarious. A lot of the jokes are pretty dirty too, either that or my mind is just dirty and i see them that way =)



And yes, thanks for all the bad reviews...made the episode all the more enjoyable, I was expecting it to suck, but it was great. I didn't even have any gripes with plotholes..I felt it was a great episode.


How was Hades not strong enough to defeat faust? Hades should be able to stomp on Ares.

[krazymed]

I don't think the DCAU has had one intelligent female on any of the shows.

[JWangSDC]

That's ok, because they're all hot.


Also, another thing i forogt to mention. Everyoen who's upset about this being what happens to the annihlator... Why? It's perfect. That fat lady....AManda Waller formed cadmus to help the people right? To prevent the JLU from getting out of control right? Well look what's happened. Dr Milo unleashed a monster and now Talia got them to steal a super powerful suit of armor...and what happened? She was trying to use it for her own purposes. Cadmus is failure.

PS: When Diana said "FLASH!?" and you see the helmet, and he goes "no no, it's the original speedster" I was going to faint. I thought it was Barry...



I don't think the DCAU has had one intelligent female on any of the shows.

[Spider-Man]

When Diana said "FLASH!?" and you see the helmet, and he goes "no no, it's the original speedster" I was going to faint. I thought it was Barry... Who voiced the Mercury (is that his name)? It sounded like it was Jason Bateman or the guy who does Flash's voice.

I thought the episode was pretty good. I really don't like Wonder Woman and an episode focused on her didn't appeal to me but the people on the show did a good job. There was enough humor and action to keep me interested. The animation was as great as last week's episode but it wasn't distracting. It kept me interested enough to make me want to watch next week.

[JLfan4life]

Who voiced the Mercury (is that his name)? It sounded like it was Jason Bateman or the guy who does Flash's voice.it was jason bateman that voiced hermes but dude sounded an awful lot like the flash..

man...i loved this episode..but i guess i would since i'm a WW and Shayera fan. i LOVED the dialogue in this one...and flash was hilarious!!! i have no idea what Zatanna said either (kudos to whoever eventually figures it out). i loved shayera's oil and vinegar line. i'm glad the events from paradise lost were finally resolved and we finally know where flash was during JLU season 1 :anime: ...and finally WW's armor is at full potential...(me thinks she'll need full power come the season finale). good job with this episode...and the previews look awesome...can't wait for double date and the clash!! :D

[Knight]

That's ok, because they're all hot.


Also, another thing i forogt to mention. Everyoen who's upset about this being what happens to the annihlator... Why? It's perfect. That fat lady....AManda Waller formed cadmus to help the people right? To prevent the JLU from getting out of control right? Well look what's happened. Dr Milo unleashed a monster and now Talia got them to steal a super powerful suit of armor...and what happened? She was trying to use it for her own purposes. Cadmus is failure. Was she trying to get it for her own purposes? Im pretty sure that was never stated. She was simply tring to make it better by removing its weakness.


PS: When Diana said "FLASH!?" and you see the helmet, and he goes "no no, it's the original speedster" I was going to faint. I thought it was Barry...The original speedster would be Jay Garrick not Barry.They were going for the Jay affect I think if anything. He's the one who also wore the helmet similar to the one Hermes wears.

I wonder when Hippolyta wore the Wonder Woman armor. Could she have came to mans world and been perhaps the original WW at some point? In the comics Hippolyta was the golden age WW and served with the JSA and even had a relationship with Wildcat.

I didnt catch this the first time around but they showed The Demons Three in this episode. They were the ones fighting over the bone and the one Diana interorgated was Abnegazar. The other two were Rath and Ghast. They are classic JLA enemies.

[JLfan4life]

i just remembered something...for all those that wanted that "go to hell" line in the episode...well...Diana almost said it but Hermes cut her off!! :mad: :anime:

[jadzia2000]

Well, at least the it explains why Wondy never used the lasso to get the truth in the first place. I like how the writers pull themselves out of trouble where the fans are concerned.

However, not only did the lasso glow, but her tiara, belt and her bracelets glowed too.

Does this mean there are other abilities besides the magic lasso that we don't know about in her armor? Doesn't her tiara have telepathic abilities? But what other abilities do her bracelet and belt do? The only thing I can think of about the bracelet is that it's a deflector of bullets and other firing mechanisms. But if this is the only capability, then how was she able to deflect bullets if stealing them pervented her from using her full powers? Other than using her natural strength, of course.

Did you also notice that Shayera kept noticing that Wondy never sweats or gets cold? Is this a new part of her armor?

[Knight]

What all her armor does still wasnt greatly detailed. We know the lasso's truth abilities have been unlocked but not much else. Does it amplify her strength and speed? We have seen her fly without it so it doesnt have a affect on that ability I dont assume. Maybe we will learn more later.

[JWangSDC]

Yea I meant Jay garrick, my fault. That helmet of his...I was really going tohave a heart attack.

And no they never stated that she was trying to get it for her own purposes...but whether she was or wasn't trying to use it for her own purposes, the point stillr remains, Cadmus is quickly illustrating that it is causing the problem it's supposedly there to prevent.



Was she trying to get it for her own purposes? Im pretty sure that was never stated. She was simply tring to make it better by removing its weakness.

The original speedster would be Jay Garrick not Barry.They were going for the Jay affect I think if anything. He's the one who also wore the helmet similar to the one Hermes wears.

I wonder when Hippolyta wore the Wonder Woman armor. Could she have came to mans world and been perhaps the original WW at some point? In the comics Hippolyta was the golden age WW and served with the JSA and even had a relationship with Wildcat.

I didnt catch this the first time around but they showed The Demons Three in this episode. They were the ones fighting over the bone and the one Diana interorgated was Abnegazar. The other two were Rath and Ghast. They are classic JLA enemies.

[Doomsday]

Best part of the episode, Flash being in it. He is a stud. The episode was ok but nothing great. It answer a lot of questions. The episode was no "Task Force X" but still good. Wonderwomen getting new powers is a surpise, wonder if we see her use the lasso again this season. The worst thing about the episode is how I feel they wasted the Annihilator, but now its gone it just should stay destroyed. Well Hawkgirl and Wonderwomen hanging out was odd but very enjoyable. They should spend more time with each other, make a good pare, nothing like GL and Flash were back in JL but still good. I wish GL and Flash get a talking scene together in JLU, haven't had one yet and thats to bad because they work so well together. Well the worst thing of the episode had to be the animation, seemed almost as bad as "The Ties That Bind"... Well the next two episodes look like they could be amazing with great animation and stories.

[Supremus]

Boring episode. I always find the magic-based, action episodes a bit tedious, and this was no exception. Wondy and Shayera bash their way through some magical realm, have a few giggles, talk about sweat and (almost) womenly issues, and Grundy dies at the end. Or maybe that was in another episode? They all blend together.

The conflict between Shayera and Wondy wasn't particularly interesting, and I kind of wish it hadn't been resolved. It was just too cookie-cutter predictable that they would patch things up in the end, and it would have been far more interesting if something along the way had driven them ever further apart.


The Oprah moment at the end with Wondy and Hades was so far out of left field, I had to rewind a bit to see if I missed a lead-in to it. It was kind of written like Wondy had been tormented about her origins and finally made her peace with it, but as far as I can remember, these issues have never been mentioned before. It seemed like another one of those classic JLU fill-in-your-own-emotional-blanks moments. Maybe they just do it to see if we're paying attention at all?

So is the Annihilator out of action now? It seems a waste considering what a great set-up last week's heist episode was. Team Cadmus getting their hands on a potential Doomsday replacement is far more interesting than having as pointless and inconsequential a villain-of-the-week as Faust take it for a joy-ride and wreck it in the end.

I liked it better when Flash was on hiatus. We have established he is a complete moron, we don't need to be hit over the head with it again and again.

Final verdict: Meh.

[bobspoland]

So is the Annihilator out of action now? It seems a waste considering what a great set-up last week's heist episode was. Team Cadmus getting their hands on a potential Doomsday replacement is far more interesting than having as pointless and inconsequential a villain-of-the-week as Faust take it for a joy-ride and wreck it in the end.

finally someone who argees with me!!! what a waste

[Krypton_Knight]

Better than the "Ties That Bind", but not as good as any of the other episodes this season. This may be the most compressed story in either JLU season - imagine what Gendy Tartovsky would have done with the amazons at the gate - and suffers for not being given the space of a two-parter to breathe and focus on the characters and their relationships.

It's not bad, but it is disappointing.

KK

[Knight]

And no they never stated that she was trying to get it for her own purposes...but whether she was or wasn't trying to use it for her own purposes, the point stillr remains, Cadmus is quickly illustrating that it is causing the problem it's supposedly there to prevent.Yeah Tala screwed up big time dealing with Faust and now Cadmus lost the Annihilator and possibly the use of her abilities and resources as well now that she is trapped in a mirror.


I wish GL and Flash get a talking scene together in JLU, haven't had one yet and thats to bad because they work so well together. We havent seen the two talk since JLU started. Hopefully we get some communication between the two before the season is over.


Team Cadmus getting their hands on a potential Doomsday replacement is far more interesting than having as pointless and inconsequential a villain-of-the-week as Faust take it for a joy-ride and wreck it in the end. Thats pretty funny I guess because its so true. One week through carefully and stratigic planning Cadmus aquires a juggernaught of power. The very next week it gets destroyed. All that work for nothing. I have to wonder if these eps were meant to air back to back.

[John Cage]

finally someone who argees with me!!! what a waste
The armor didn't look destroyed to me. The only part that I can recall that got totally wrecked was the face plate. And who says Shayera and Wonder Woman didn't take it back with them?

Have a good day then.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

[Style]

My main complaint is the same as most others: It brings down an excellent episode to merely a good one. Ugh. The Darkside of continuity. And I feel I have more fodder for my "Cadmus, not all it was cracked up to be" thread.

Maybe they should go back to mini movies.

Anyway, mildly funny, but some of it was painful. I swear, I was worried Shayera was going to ask Diana how she stays so "fresh." :o :sad:

As egotististical as it sounds, I gotta say I prefer my version (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1663696&postcount=395)of "The Balance" over the actual episode.

[Hero Supreme]

what happened to all of the other thangarian weapons from starcrossed? too bad the league didnt keep a few of those axes around in case of a magical emergency.

[Knight]

what happened to all of the other thangarian weapons from starcrossed? too bad the league didnt keep a few of those axes around in case of a magical emergency.
That would have been the smart thing to do.

[Hero Supreme]

it will be good to see metamorpho back in action.

[JWangSDC]

If thisis wat was going to happen the the armor, i don't see why the episodes wouldn't have been aired back to back. The planning went down the drain fora reason, it's not like the JLU writers made this big thing and then messed up...No they made this big thing then had a character in the show mess up big. I dont' see it as being a waste, it was very significant and was a good story




Thats pretty funny I guess because its so true. One week through carefully and stratigic planning Cadmus aquires a juggernaught of power. The very next week it gets destroyed. All that work for nothing. I have to wonder if these eps were meant to air back to back.[/size][/size][/font]

[Yojimbo]

I'm pretty sure it's Black Mass, another of the obscure villains getting his animated due.

If he is African American, ginormous, in a black/purple suit, and yellow wristbands then thats Black Mass. Seems like another villain associated with the Cadre is getting animated (the first being Tracer).

[Revelator]

The next two episodes look amazing, though. "Clash" has the potential to be the best episode yet. I'm not sure about that. If it's going to be another throwdown episode it'll have to be pretty inventive to stay more interesting than a superpowered cock-fight. How many times can we watch Superman (or anyone else) get knocked through a building before yawning? That said, I'm still excited to have Captain Marvel enter into the JLU, and after having finished a marathon read-through of the Giffen/DeMatteis 80s JL comics, I'm looking forward to seeing another DeMatteis scripted episode. At the very least it should have some of his customary wit.

As for this episode...after having read the logline and glancing at The Disneyboy Agonistes ("Diana is dead to me!") I expected it to be far worse than it really was (though I don't agree that it deserved two parter status). In other words, I enjoyed it. I have to agree with everyone who's already pointed out the disappointing fate of the Annihilator, which comes as a definite anticlimax to "Task Force X." I'd expected Cadmus to do something startling with it, but unless Tala escapes from the mirror and goes to hell, forget that. I get uncomfortable whenever the Gods show up, since I prefer the JLU living in an spooky agnostic universe rather than a campily polytheistic one, but I got a mysteriously familiar thrill out of Hermes and his voice, and realized why after learning I'd been listening to Jason Bateman, star of the very best comedy on network TV. (And what's wrong with Hermes not being a fully serious character? It's not like he was anything more in this episode than a messenger anyway.)

I'm a sucker for cameos, so seeing the magical JLU members in agony worked for me, as did Flash's reconciliation attempts (and Rosenbaum's delivery of the line "I'm a stud"). Felix Faust and Hades were as one note as ever, and the teaser with Faust and Tala felt too long, though it was redeemed by that surprise mirror adjustment. No, the animation wasn't top-notch, but after watching several season one JL episodes last night, it was hardly "crud" either. The catty Diana/Shayera relationship was satisfactorily worked out and in character, and thankfully didn't end with them becoming buddies. (To address the klepto charge: Diana was in a hurry to alleviate her teammates' agony and felt she didn't have time to go make her peace with Shayera and then beg for her mace, so she simply decided to borrow it.) I expected requisite angst to kick in for Diana when she learned Hades was her "father," but when it didn't I was relieved. Diabna's shrugging off the news was well in character.

I've gotten to the point where I wish Shayera had instead worn a much more somber, redesigned Hawgirl outfit rather than donning that super-tracksuit and now being called Shayera (much to the confusion of fair-weather fans, who'll probably wonder who on earth Shayera is). And while I like the character, and the writers obviously like her a lot, I'm not too excited about another episode starring her (unless "Hunter's Moon" might feature the Thanagarians) and think she's already her share of the spotlight. By now the Cadmus arc has gathered enough momentum that episodes like 'The Balance' seem like interruptions. And I'd prefer to see any non conspiracy episodes devoted to fleshing out the less developed JLU members--perhaps because, as Wonder Woman's case shows, they staff is better off turning B-list leaguers into A-listers rather than struggling with problematic icons. I wouldn't call Diana's characterization terrible, but I doubt that she's anyone's favorite leaguer (on the strength of her animated characterization). Even recently introduced members like The Question probably have a bigger fanbase. On the other hand, now that the staff apparently feel comfortable enough with Diana to power her up, perhaps her character will continue to improve.

[John Cage]

If he is African American, ginormous, in a black/purple suit, and yellow wristbands then thats Black Mass. Seems like another villain associated with the Cadre is getting animated (the first being Tracer).
Yup. Black Mass. Let's see -- Black Mass, Parasite, Heatwave... plus Grodd down the line. Another Secret Society?

Have a good day.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)

[Yojimbo]

Yup. Black Mass. Let's see -- Black Mass, Parasite, Heatwave... plus Grodd down the line. Another Secret Society?

Have a good day.
John Cage
(Mystery Man)
After reading the synopsis for "divided we fall", perhaps a Legion of Doom? It'd be interesting to say the least.

[Simpler Simon]

I just checked the credits to "The Balance", and Hades is not voiced by John Rhys-Davies anymore? It lists a guy named Bob Joles, though his imdb page doesn't credit this performance (and actually gives Rhys-Davies the credit).

Additionally, Wayne Knight was Abnegazar, and Michael T. Weiss returned for his 3 or 4 lines of dialogue as Jason Blood/Etrigan. Thats pretty cool.

[Trevor Balena]

I don't have access to the credits... do they list anyone for Zatanna?

[Revelator]

The armor didn't look destroyed to me. The only part that I can recall that got totally wrecked was the face plate. And who says Shayera and Wonder Woman didn't take it back with them? I recommend another viewing Mystery Man, though I'm sure you'll get to one anyway. Watching it the second time around I was pretty sure that the armor blew up. Pieces of it littered the floor. And when Diana and Shayera fly away at the end, they're definitely not lugging any metal chunks with them.

[bobspoland]

I don't have access to the credits... do they list anyone for Zatanna?
no, so i dont know who did zatanna voice. am sure it will be the person who did her in "this little piggy" cause she sounded the same

[Knight]

If he is African American, ginormous, in a black/purple suit, and yellow wristbands then thats Black Mass. Seems like another villain associated with the Cadre is getting animated (the first being Tracer).
Black Mass was his name and The Cadre was the comic team he was associated with but Tracer was a member of The Extremist.

[Simpler Simon]

no, so i dont know who did zatanna voice. am sure it will be the person who did her in "this little piggy" cause she sounded the same

Unlikely, since she only spoke one line (and backwards too, making it even harder to discern). More likely Juliet Landau (Tala) played her.

[DLM]

Hmmm. Not a bad episode, but it suffers by comparison after stellar episodes like Doomsday Sanction and Task Force X. The Balance was better than Cat and the Canary, but overall, not up to the standard set so far by this season. Although I notice some people feel let down by the way the magic lasso finally made its debut, I actually liked it. The idea WW's gear needed to be "blessed" to unlock its full potential becauce Diana had stolen it is certainly a different take on things, but it fits in nicely with the animated continuity so far.

I do, however, share the sentiment that he Anihilator story was a bit of an anticlimax. All that effort put forth in Task Force X to get the thing and in the end nothing really comes of it. Poor Plastique.

The real disappointment though was the dialouge. It just seemed "off" too me. There was one good line where Shayera asks Diana "Did I ever ASK your forgiveness?" But other than that the dialouge just didn't feel right for the characters.
I'd also say that most of the attempts at humor fell flat. This episode would have been better played straight, with fewer forced quips, and more of an effort to emphasise the serious threat. Even the Flash, usually a sure-fire guarantee for a smile, didn't really deliver. His bravado to the lunchroom after Diana and Shayera walked out was too over the top even for him.

The whole episode felt like an effort to patch the problems with the animated WW character. Unfortunately, while it patched the power level holes, the episode failed to patch the characterization problems. And given the way the episode ended, it was clearly supposed to be a big moment where we finally start to connect with Diana. Didn't happen, at least for me.

Still, not a bad episode. Some good action, and a long overdue "powerup" for WW. Good idea, only average to slightly above average execution.

[Requiem]

::trying not to repeat everything said:: There was something lacking in this episode, whether it was the dialogue or characterization. The only part that really stood out for me was Flash in the beginning. Overall, not too horrible and not too good, just...average. As others have mentioned, it's disappointing we won't get to see the Annihilator's potential in use for Cadmus...or will we?

And Faust sending WW and Shayera to where Hades is? Was he that into his books to think straight? "Crap, we only have 5 min left! Wrap up the story NOW!"

[Bic]

::trying not to repeat everything said:: There was something lacking in this episode, whether it was the dialogue or characterization.
I agree with that, tho I felt it was more due to lackluster direction/animation than dialogue or characterization (which could have been better as well). All the other points have been mentioned, Task Force X, the quick makup between WW and HG, etc. And would it have killed the writers to make Flash a little less of a clown!! Instead of the 'stud' line and placing his hand in some food, he could have just stated that 'at least he tried' and gained uber points with all the girls in the cafeteria. *sigh*


And Faust sending WW and Shayera to where Hades is? Was he that into his books to think straight? "Crap, we only have 5 min left! Wrap up the story NOW!"
Maybe it's a mysterious power of WW's new armor? :D

Also this episode teases me again, they show my favorite JLU'er but again no speaking lines. When, oh when is Dr. Light going to get her spotlight episode? Probably as soon as they do a Supergirl/Batgirl romance plot that I so desire. :o

[Merlin Missy]

*thwaps GMahler because someone should*

I wanted to like this episode more than I did. Diana and Shayera, finally resolving everything that's been simmering since "Starcrossed?" Written by Dwayne McDuffie? Dude. Disney Boy had his dream, I had mine. And yet.

Things I liked about this episode:
- *does the dance of being so very right on the "Mom's ex-bf looks a lot like Daughter Dearest ... " snarks from way back* Interesting take on that to get past the S&P no-nos.

- related: Fantastic thought process involved with how Diana would react to this. In a patriarchal society "Who's your daddy?" is a big deal because it decides property rights, status, identity, and all the other important things in life. Shayera comes from a patriarchal society (if her ex is a typical member) and her first thought is that this is important and should be disproven. Diana otoh, is an Amazon, and was very much not raised with a patriarchal mindset. Ergo her response is: "So what?" V. cool.

- I liked seeing the gals' living quarters. They both decorate with weaponry. I approve. :D

- LMAO at Hermes. Just did.

- I liked getting more of a glimpse into the long-standing differences between them, with Shayera's "You never sweat" bit, which for me ties back into their "Secret Society" mirrors, and Killa Frost's comment "Don't be such a girl!" Diana is the prom queen and tends to be a little too perfect (at least to any other female in the room). Shayera resents that. More on their disagreement later.

- I liked that Diana's thoughts re: the mace were basically "Take it now, ask forgiveness later." When Themyscira was in danger, she went straight into action. Now her new friends are in danger and to hell with the consequences. *ahem*

- The "vinegar and oil" metaphor was interesting and apropos, but I'm not entirely sure it should have been said by an alien.

- Wayne Knight amuses me. Shut up.

- Faust took over a library. This is the kind of Evil Overlord I would end up being.

- Even Zeus should tremble to mess with the mama.

- "Magic Lasso. Who knew?" "Fine. If you don't want to tell me ... " Bwahahahahaha! And yay more powers!

- Nice follow-up on how Diana got the armor. We saw her stealing it, but I've seen that fanwanked (possibly here --- I don't remember) that Athena actually left those things there for her specifically. And now we know that no, Diana was just naughty. Bad Amazon, no biscuit.

- Nice bit where Diana is concerned about Shayera after the blast but doesn't want to admit it. 'Cause they're them. :)

- I'm actually glad the HG/GL thing wasn't brought up. This wasn't the place for it. That plotline can wait until later.

- Did anyone else get an "Evil Dead" vibe from the library book?

Things to which I was neutral:
- Tala? Is as dumb as a wooden chicken. Honey, when the guy you have trapped in the mirror tells you a spell, make sure he's telling you the right thing to say. Because otherwise you look like an idiot.

- Hi Etrigan. You were cuter as a baby. Kbye.

- Did they actually play the tape backwards for Zatanna this time? It didn't sound like normal backwards-speak.

- I could care less about the Annihilator armor. Really. It's been a plot device in its three appearances. Plot devices have their place. It took its place. It's done now.

Things that made me wish I hadn't gone into this episode expecting more:
- I liked Peacemaker Wally. But Trying to Recover By Being Stud Wally? Was so first season as to hurt.

- Speaking of which season is this again, I'm back on the Diana/Shayera feud. Thing is, the last time Diana spoke to Shayera on-screen, she was cold and a touch snippy, and the time before that, Diana told Shayera "I should leave you to burn." I was expecting more followup to this than a casual "I forgave you a long time ago." Um. No. This is a relationship that was rocky to begin with and was heavily damaged in "Starcrossed." I can deal with there not being much snark between the two (as someone else said, they're professionals) but there was no resolution. We never saw Diana get over her anger at being betrayed, and while one could argue that despite her protests this was Shayera's attempt at apology, we didn't see it. I am disappointed, because it seems that it's not just something that's going to happen off-camera, and this was our one chance at really seeing them clearing the air and they didn't. And I am sad, because Shayera almost got Diana and the rest killed and Diana was ready to kill her and that ought to be addressed. So I'll be over here pouting that it wasn't.

- I liked that Diana's powers were upped, but like DB, I'm kind of disappointed as to how. Hippolyta presses the star on Diana's forehead and poof, the lasso works? I'd have preferred a better visual, and/or put it off until the end of the episode as a reward.

- The "all magic workers are afflected" thing was a bit cheesy. It worked as character motivation for Diana, but I think she could have been given plenty of other motivations (other than the word from Zeus *snerk*).

- The "overnight delivery" joke died a horrifying death and its bones are being gnawed even now by demons.

- The mix of mythologies is giving me a headache. I can deal with the Greek pantheon, but mixing in angels and implied Big Beard In The Sky What Ain't Zeus messes with my suspenders of disbelief. (Although it's way past time that someone brought up the "angel" thing on-screen, so yay for that.)


So. Overall, this was enjoyable. We got some character interactions I've been waiting for, although I'm not entirely pleased with how those interactions played out. I keep feeling chunks were missing, and since the rest of the season looks jam-packed with plot, I'm almost surely not going to get to see them down the road. I enjoyed some of the funny, winced at some of the funny, and got to see Diana's and Shayera's decorating habits. Not a bad romp, just not quite what I was expecting or hoping.

MM:)

[Style]

You know, I was thinking today...

How does Shayera, an alien who is a self-acknowledged atheist, who went so far as to kill her own people's god, know enough about Earth religous systems to make a reference to angels? I know she's been on earth like, 6 or 7 years now, but I don't see this alien atheist reading up on Earth religious systems, or even watching enough television to absorb pop culture angel references.

[Yojimbo]

Dr. Fate had an extensive collection of pop culture tv series he taped on vhs and beta, and stored them only to be rediscovered when Shayera wondered in on it while looking for his spellbook to cure continuity and character development.:evil:

[Style]

Dr. Fate had an extensive collection of pop culture tv series he taped on vhs and beta, and stored them only to be rediscovered when Shayera wondered in on it while looking for his cool helmet.:evil: Oh yes, along with his "Angel, Buffy, Bond, and Star Trek" DVD collections (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?p=1578241). How could I have forgotten. ;) After spending a year with Dr. Fate, Hawkgirl must be a bigger fan girl than all of us combined!:D

[Bird Boy]

Heck, even Zatanna got a line in (even if I don't know what the hell she said), and that goes a long way.

Just that, actually.

I was just emailed a soundclip and a reversal from this episode. Zatanna's reversed talk translates to:

"All is lost, Faust sits on the throne of hell."

Background moans translate to "Help us...pleeease."

Yeah. They got "hell" past the censors. How sweet is that. :D

-BB

[Revelator]

I know she's been on earth like, 6 or 7 years now, but I don't see this alien atheist reading up on Earth religious systems, or even watching enough television to absorb pop culture angel references.
I think it'd hard to live on earth 6 to 7 years and not see or read an angel reference, unless you live in a cave. And just because someone's an atheist doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in religion. At the very least she might be interested in making sure earth religions can be as easily dimissed as her own. Lastly, Hawkgirl came as a spy to this planet: it seems natural that she'd be debriefed in great detail about Earth's culture, and that as a spy she'd try finding out as much as she can about Earthling's primary thought/belief systems. Angels are an integral part of one of the planet's primary religions. And I bet lots of earhlings have probably told her she looks like an angel.

[Style]

I think it'd hard to live on earth 6 to 7 years and not see or read an angel reference, unless you live in a cave. And just because someone's an atheist doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested in religion. At the very least she might be interested in making sure earth religions can be as easily dimissed as her own. Lastly, Hawkgirl came as a spy to this planet: it seems natural that she'd be debriefed in great detail about Earth's culture, and that as a spy she'd try finding out as much as she can about Earthling's primary thought/belief systems. Angels are an integral part of one of the planet's primary religions. And I bet lots of earhlings have probably told her she looks like an angel.
True. actually, kenshi528's point, while framed as a joke, (as was my response,) did get me thinking. She just might have read up and studied religion and magic under Dr. Fate's tutalige. Especially if she thought she might get comfort from a "higher power."

Oops, now I'm speculating that her "post-Starcrossed" experience might have been enough to tempt her to reverse her atheist opinion, even just a little. That might be going too far.

[Knight]

Just that, actually.

I was just emailed a soundclip and a reversal from this episode. Zatanna's reversed talk translates to:

"All is lost, Faust sits on the throne of hell."

Background moans translate to "Help us...pleeease."

Yeah. They got "hell" past the censors. How sweet is that. :D

-BB
Thats pretty interesting. The power of creativity at its finest.

[Ms.J.Justice]

You know, I was thinking today...

How does Shayera, an alien who is a self-acknowledged atheist, who went so far as to kill her own people's god, know enough about Earth religous systems to make a reference to angels? I know she's been on earth like, 6 or 7 years now, but I don't see this alien atheist reading up on Earth religious systems, or even watching enough television to absorb pop culture angel references.

Well shayera, was a Spy and a spy has to look and examine every inch of evidence...sometimes religion can be a downfall...
Maybe she just didnt get her views on angles from the bibles of this world... there's always discovery chanel :D

[Hatter]

This felt like an original JL episode with some nice character touches.
The animation was pretty dicey in close-ups, but the action scenes were sweet. You can tell they tried to spruce it up a lot in post with special effects, though.

Flash was hilarious near the beginning, as usual... man, it's nice to have him back. And at least they've acknowledged that he was gone last season. The whole episode had some nice quips, actually, especially between Shayera and Diana.

Hmm, I didn't even know that the abilities of Wonder Woman's golden lariat hadn't been introduced yet.
I loved how the magical JLU-ers were freaking out, especially Etrigan. No one does bizarre ranting like him.
Hades' library was suitably creepy, what with the flaming corpse-lamps and the books of human flesh. How'd they get that by S&P?
I was yet again dissapointed by the Annihilator, though. Why'd they even bother to bring it back at all? The Suicide Squad could've stolen something much cooler.

[Arsenal]

I think this episode set up in interesting duality between Shayera and Wonder Woman. There relationship is very much like Batman and Superman's. The "you don't even sweat" dialogue brings that to the forefront.

Batman could easily say to Superman the equivalent. "You don't sweat. You don't have to dodge bullets. It's not even work for you. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't--"

Shayera, save her wings, is closer to human than Superman or WW in abilities. And how powerful is flight? Pretty much everyone on the watchtower can fly except for baseline humans. (I'm exaggerating, I know.) Shayera is certainly more vulnerable to attacks than most of the supercharged powerhouses on the watchtower. So at the end of the episode, WW and Shayera reach an impasse that is very similar to Batman and Superman's at the end of the World's Finest. They respect each other, but they also realize they are too different [in abilities, in approach, in lifestyle] to "mix."

[JLfan4life]

i noticed alot of people asking why did they even bother bringing back the annihilator suit in the first place if they were only gonna destroy it in the next episode....but i'm looking at it this way...obviously Cadmus wanted the suit..they sent in task force x to retrieve it from the watchtower. but tala messed up..and eventually the suit ended up getting destroyed. i'm interested in seeing how Cadmus reacts to the annihilator suit being destroyed. i'm sure they'll be pissed :D

[JLfan4life]

For some reason, I think that we might see the Annihilator again. It's been confirmed that Tala will be making more appearances, so it's plausible that she could cast a spell to retrieve its remnants from Tartarus.good point. i just really want to see how Tala gets out of that mirror...unless Hades frees her or something.

[Revelator]

For some reason, I think that we might see the Annihilator again. It's been confirmed that Tala will be making more appearances, so it's plausible that she could cast a spell to retrieve its remnants from Tartarus.
At this point though the suit is in pieces and basically scrap metal. They'd have to get Hephaestus himself to rebuild the damn thing. Once Tala gets out of that mirror Waller's going to rip her a new one.

[JLfan4life]

Once Tala gets out of that mirror Waller's going to rip her a new one.and i can't wait to see that!!! :D :anime:

[Knight]

For some reason, I think that we might see the Annihilator again. It's been confirmed that Tala will be making more appearances,Where was it confirmed that we would see Tala again this season?

so it's plausible that she could cast a spell to retrieve its remnants from Tartarus.Dont you think that if she could do that she would have pulled it right off the Satilite in Task Force X?


good point. i just really want to see how Tala gets out of that mirror...unless Hades frees her or something.Hades is trapped on Tarturus. He doesnt have any control on the outside world so even if he knew Tala was trapped in a mirror (which is unlikely) he really doesnt have a reason or the mean to free her I would think.


At this point though the suit is in pieces and basically scrap metal. They'd have to get Hephaestus himself to rebuild the damn thing. Once Tala gets out of that mirror Waller's going to rip her a new one.

Very true. The Annihilator is gone unless the god who built it rebuilds ,it which he doesnt have a reason to. Cadmus getting a new Annihilator would be pure luck.

As far as Tala getting out of the mirror I dont see that happening anytime soon unless another magic users comes along and decided thay want to take her place in the mirror.

[Knight]

In a thread on Dwayne McDuffie's board pertaining to "Task Force X" he said that people will enjoy her upcoming appearances. "The Balance" was a single appearance.
Oh, ok cool. I need to check out Mcduffies site more often.:)

[DLM]

It is a very nice site. I check it almost daily myself.Ive never seen McDuffie's site. Care to give a link?

[Merlin Missy]

Shayera: *arrives on Earth*
(ten minutes later)
Random Earthperson: Are you an angel?
S: A what now?
RE: *explains*
S: *laughs herself silly for twenty minutes straight*
RE: *glares*
S: I'm sorry, you were saying?

Pretty sure someone brought it up to her.

RE: DM's site, I think the blog was finally abandoned in favor of the message board.

MM:)

[Dwayne McDuffie]

Shayera: *arrives on Earth*
(ten minutes later)
Random Earthperson: Are you an angel?
S: A what now?
RE: *explains*
S: *laughs herself silly for twenty minutes straight*
RE: *glares*
S: I'm sorry, you were saying?

Pretty sure someone brought it up to her.

RE: DM's site, I think the blog was finally abandoned in favor of the message board.

MM:)

My ears were burning, hi. Remember that Shayera was a spy, deeply conversant in Earth culture. She knows a lot more (at least broadly) about our various cultures than the average human does. Her mission and possibly life depended on this knowledge. FYI, there was a joke in that sequence, cut for time or lameness, where Wonder Woman asks her how she knows about angels. Shayera shrugged, explaining that she'd "read the book."

Also, my news blog is finally back on-line. I'll be sprucing it up over the next few weeks but new entries started going up yesterday. If you still can't read the page, let me know and I'll try to fix it. No one is worse at CSS than I am.

[Style]

^ Okay okay okay. I get it. She's a spy. Although JL never gave me the impression she was that familiar with earth culture, (She seemed confused when John referenced a snow angel and it's wings in "comfort and joy,") but if ya'll insist, we'll say she was playing dumb.

[Trevor Balena]

Just because she knows what an angel is, doesn't mean she'd automatically know what a snow angel is. ('Cause, y'know, it doesn't look that much like an actual angel.)

Since she didn't actually grow up here, I don't think she'd know the first thing about snow angels. I don't think "shapes children make in the snow and then get hypothermia" would show up in typical spy information gathering.

But I digress... why are we talking about this again? ;)

[Knight]

^ Okay okay okay. I get it. She's a spy. Although JL never gave me the impression she was that familiar with earth culture, (She seemed confused when John referenced a snow angel and it's wings in "comfort and joy,") but if ya'll insist, we'll say she was playing dumb.No one ever said she knew everything. A guy laying in snow moving his arms and making a pattern might not scream snow angel to some.

Anyway she seemed to be familiar with Theymescira in the first JL ep so she was well read in a lot of Earth lore and history. So I would say she is not totally ignorant of Earth culture. I would say Shayera is more likely to have read about regular angels than snow ones.

[Merlin Missy]

FYI, there was a joke in that sequence, cut for time or lameness, where Wonder Woman asks her how she knows about angels. Shayera shrugged, explaining that she'd "read the book." *ponders new information*

In a way, I'm just as glad the joke was dropped. On the main talkback thread, there would have been five pages dedicated to a spirited debate over whether she'd read it upon her arrival to Earth or read it while she was hanging around Fate's tower (possibly representing a newfound interest in human religions). Then some wiseacre would have piped up that in the Bible, angels weren't mentioned to have wings, that it was a later addition by artists, and someone else would have brought up cherubim and seraphim having like six wings each, and it would have devolved quickly from there. Style would have started a parody thread, which Bird Boy would have shut down an hour later but not before pie was somehow mentioned.

Fortunately, we have instead the word from the writer that this is another "she was a spy, hello" moment, which works as adequate explanation and averts the flame war right from the beginning. And also the blog is back, so that's two pieces of good news in one post. Yay!

Note to self: stop posting when you're on cold meds.

MM:)

[Style]

*ponders new information*

In a way, I'm just as glad the joke was dropped. On the main talkback thread, there would have been five pages dedicated to a spirited debate over whether she'd read it upon her arrival to Earth or read it while she was hanging around Fate's tower (possibly representing a newfound interest in human religions). Then some wiseacre would have piped up that in the Bible, angels weren't mentioned to have wings, that it was a later addition by artists, and someone else would have brought up cherubim and seraphim having like six wings each, and it would have devolved quickly from there. Style would have started a parody thread, which Bird Boy would have shut down an hour later but not before pie was somehow mentioned.

MM:) That's not true! I wouldn't have started a parody thread based on the Angel Flamewar... I would have posted a parody in the talkback thread only. And you would have laughed. Oh yes. You would have laughed.

[JWangSDC]

Except batman isn't a [wuss] and he would never say that. He'd grunt

Edit by Bird Boy: Watch the language.


I think this episode set up in interesting duality between Shayera and Wonder Woman. There relationship is very much like Batman and Superman's. The "you don't even sweat" dialogue brings that to the forefront.

Batman could easily say to Superman the equivalent. "You don't sweat. You don't have to dodge bullets. It's not even work for you. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't--"

Shayera, save her wings, is closer to human than Superman or WW in abilities. And how powerful is flight? Pretty much everyone on the watchtower can fly except for baseline humans. (I'm exaggerating, I know.) Shayera is certainly more vulnerable to attacks than most of the supercharged powerhouses on the watchtower. So at the end of the episode, WW and Shayera reach an impasse that is very similar to Batman and Superman's at the end of the World's Finest. They respect each other, but they also realize they are too different [in abilities, in approach, in lifestyle] to "mix."

[Juu-kuchi]

Finally saw this. Not as totally awesome f'ing wicked as Task Force X, but it worked. It's always good to see the Flash, even though his role is minimal here. At least things seemed to work out, although I am surprised as how the Annihilator was easily removed from Cadmus' use from now on.

The previews for "Double Date" and "Clash" are making me impatient.

[lepris]

Hi!

An above average episode, not at all up to par with last week's "Task Force X" though. Episodes like these make me wish that CN did not stop the hour long format to the show. The episode seemed extremely rushed to me. It was like they tried to wrap up this particular storyline quickly.

And the way I interpret the Annihilator was a simple plot device. I think it was introduced as a weapon, "Hawk and Dove." Then they thought the Annihilator would be on the only thing to serve the beat down on Hades. And what better way to get the Annilator? "Task Force X." And honestly, would it have really mattered what Task Force X stolen? It just so happen that the thing they stole serves as a plot device for Diana. Now, thanks to the Annihilator, we got an awesome government group and Wonder Woman's storyline has been wrap up nicely (if not rushed).

So, in conclusion. Annihilator = Plot Device.

Oh, and it's my first post. Nice to meet everyone.

-Ty

[Ms. Kitty]

http://img194.echo.cx/img194/6757/chirolpbey28cr.gifWELCOME!!!!!!!! :D

[Krypton_Knight]

Hi!

An above average episode, not at all up to par with last week's "Task Force X" though. Episodes like these make me wish that CN did not stop the hour long format to the show. The episode seemed extremely rushed to me. It was like they tried to wrap up this particular storyline quickly.

...

Oh, and it's my first post. Nice to meet everyone.

-Ty
Nice to meet you, and welcome.

I largely agree with your assessment of the episode.

KK

[lepris]

Thanks everyone for the welcome, I appreciate it.

-Ty

[Revelator]

I'd say nice to meet you, but we've already met.;)



And honestly, would it have really mattered what Task Force X stolen? Actually, when I'd first read the logline for TFX I thought their mission would be to sabotage that enormous laser-cannon aboard the Watchtower. If they're taking orders from a government department, wouldn't Waller be more worried about that freakin' big WMD than that piddling suit? If the Squad was sent to destroy or steal a component from the laser cannon, that would have meant substantially revising "The Balance," but that might have been for the better. The point of that episode was to bring Diana and Shayera together by requiring Diana to need an anti-magic weapon, which required a magical threat. But there are other magical threats besides the Annihilator...

[Kolbar]

In case anyone's interested, here are some screencaps (http://www.jlcentral.net/modules.php?name=Episodes&file=balance).

[lepris]

I'd say nice to meet you, but we've already met.;)

Yes, we have. Thanks. ;)

Actually, when I'd first read the logline for TFX I thought their mission would be to sabotage that enormous laser-cannon aboard the Watchtower. If they're taking orders from a government department, wouldn't Waller be more worried about that freakin' big WMD than that piddling suit? If the Squad was sent to destroy or steal a component from the laser cannon, that would have meant substantially revising "The Balance," but that might have been for the better. The point of that episode was to bring Diana and Shayera together by requiring Diana to need an anti-magic weapon, which required a magical threat. But there are other magical threats besides the Annihilator...
Ya know, that was the first impression I had as well. I would think that Waller and Eding, even Flagg, would argue to sabotage the laser cannon. If the Annihilator didn't serve as a simply plot device for Diana, I would imagine that the laser-cannon idea would've worked fine, if not better. But then if that were true, they might've not needed the Annihilator and we would've not had "Task Force X."

Oh, and what other magical threats did you have in min? I cannot think of any.

-Ty

[Revelator]

If the Annihilator didn't serve as a simply plot device for Diana, I would imagine that the laser-cannon idea would've worked fine, if not better. But then if that were true, they might've not needed the Annihilator and we would've not had "Task Force X."
Oh, we'd have had it, but it would have been slightly different, with laser cannon sabotage instead of Annihilator theft. The Task Force might have detonated a smal bomb in the cannon or something similar. Then Jonn would have had cause to be really pissed off. It's not every day that the government has the chance to send agents into the watchtower, and you'd think if hey had the chance their main priority would be getting that WMD permanently out of commission.


Oh, and what other magical threats did you have in min? I cannot think of any.
Perhaps Tala and Mordru could have ganged up for some mischief. And I'm sure the comics rogues gallery of Dr. Fate or the Demon might have supplied a previously unused villain or two. Or maybe Ares decided to force Hepheastus into crafting an entire series of armored warriors that made the Annihilator look like a tin soldier. Or perhaps Ares and Hades strike a deal. There are quite a few possibilities when one starts brainstorming. In any case, almost anyone would have bettered Felix Faust.

[Knight]

Oh, we'd have had it, but it would have been slightly different, with laser cannon sabotage instead of Annihilator theft. The Task Force might have detonated a smal bomb in the cannon or something similar. Then Jonn would have had cause to be really pissed off. It's not every day that the government has the chance to send agents into the watchtower, and you'd think if hey had the chance their main priority would be getting that WMD permanently out of commission.

In my opinion a mission to disable the cannon would have been pointless. Here is what happens - Task Force X destroys cannon, League fixes cannon the next day. So what was the point for destroying it in the first place?

I don't see a way of permanently disabling the cannon without getting rid of The Watchtower. So if they plant a bomb to nuke the whole thing then that would make sense ,anything else is a temporary annoyance.

[Revelator]

In my opinion a mission to disable the cannon would have been pointless. Here is what happens - Task Force X destroys cannon, League fixes cannon the next day. So what was the point for destroying it in the first place?
A weapon like that would take more than a day to fix, especially if it was totalled. Wrecking it buys time: if Cadmus plans to move against the league, it's better off moving while the cannon is out of commission. And we don't really know anything about the cannon aside from the fact that it's a large laser cannon--who knows if it requires hard to find components that would delay repair, or if the Squad might have boobytrapped the wreckage too. The league might eventually repair the cannon, but by the time they finished Cadmus might have struck. I still say that the cannon was better worth infiltrating the watchtower for than that suit of armor.

[Supremus]

It's not every day that the government has the chance to send agents into the watchtower, and you'd think if hey had the chance their main priority would be getting that WMD permanently out of commission. Maybe they plan to exhaust all diplomatic options first? :)

Their real concern is not the big-ass laser in the sky, that's just an excuse to justify and put their paranoid actions into place. That's why they didn't disable the Anihalator, they needed it for their own purposes. They are looking for a fight, and they know the JLU aren't going to point the big-ass laser at them, as it would risk civilian casualties.

[Revelator]

That's why they didn't disable the Anihalator, they needed it for their own purposes.
That's the other thing I was curious about--had Cadmus or Tala any specific plans in mind for the Annihilator before it got wrecked? I know Tala was trying to get rid of the armor's weakness, but afterwards how would it have been used--as brute force in a direct confrontation with the league perhaps? Since the League knows cadmus was probably behind the Annihilator theft, I suppose they consider government as having made a sort of premptive strike.

[Knight]

A weapon like that would take more than a day to fix, especially if it was totalled. Wrecking it buys time: if Cadmus plans to move against the league, it's better off moving while the cannon is out of commission. And we don't really know anything about the cannon aside from the fact that it's a large laser cannon--who knows if it requires hard to find components that would delay repair, or if the Squad might have boobytrapped the wreckage too. The league might eventually repair the cannon, but by the time they finished Cadmus might have struck. I still say that the cannon was better worth infiltrating the watchtower for than that suit of armor.

How often does The League look to use that cannon? Almost never. The 50+ heroes in the Watchtower are a more of a threat than that silly cannon. Why blow up the cannon and then make a strike against them? If Cadmus wants to destroy the cannon they may as well blow up the whole Watchtower. That would take care of any pressumed problem that they think they have with The League. If Cadmus wants to make a move against the League its best if they move while there is no Watchtower at all.

But thats not what Cadmus is trying to do. They arent looking for a war. They are just arming themselves just in case. That is why getting The Annihilator makes sense instead of trying to start trouble by blowing up a cannon.

[Supremus]

That's the other thing I was curious about--had Cadmus or Tala any specific plans in mind for the Annihilator before it got wrecked? I know Tala was trying to get rid of the armor's weakness, but afterwards how would it have been used--as brute force in a direct confrontation with the league perhaps? Since the League knows cadmus was probably behind the Annihilator theft, I suppose they consider government as having made a sort of premptive strike.Presumably, the Annihilator was meant to be a replacement for Doomsday, so Tala won't make "employee of the month" for letting Faust wreck it.

Cadmus want first strike capability, and I suspect they will want to use it at some point too. The fact that they are happy to work with as unpredictable an element as known super villians, suggests that they won't settle for a deterrent, they will be looking to strike at some point soon... Say, some time around the 4-part season finale? :)

Waller's part in this could get very interesting. I don't think she is itching for a strike quite as much as some of her colleagues are.

[Revelator]

[QUOTE]How often does The League look to use that cannon? Almost never. The 50+ heroes in the Watchtower are a more of a threat than that silly cannon.
But none of those 50+ heroes packs as much concentrated firepower, and even in "Dark Heart," where most of the league was in action, the cannon was brought out anyway. It doesn't matter if the league would rarely use the cannon--how often are nukes expected to be used?--the point is that they posess it and can use it, and the government doesn't think they're entitled to have that kind of weaponry, especially if they go rogue.


If Cadmus wants to make a move against the League its best if they move while there is no Watchtower at all.
And who knows--perhaps future episodes will prove precisely that.


But thats not what Cadmus is trying to do. They arent looking for a war. They are just arming themselves just in case. That is why getting The Annihilator makes sense instead of trying to start trouble by blowing up a cannon.
Part of arming one's self can include disabling the other side's most potent weapons. And in stealing the suit they caused trouble anyway. And sabotaging the cannon doesn't neccesarily mean nuking the netire watchtower--they could have done what Batman did to the Waynetech drill Talia stole (insert an undetectable device that would cause the machine to destroy itself the next time it was used). If I was Waller I'd rather have ordered that than a suit run.

[lepris]

Oh, we'd have had it, but it would have been slightly different, with laser cannon sabotage instead of Annihilator theft. The Task Force might have detonated a smal bomb in the cannon or something similar. Then Jonn would have had cause to be really pissed off. It's not every day that the government has the chance to send agents into the watchtower, and you'd think if hey had the chance their main priority wouldbe getting that WMD permanently out of commission.
That or disabling the Watchtower all together. I think if they were able to completely wipe the computer core, I think the Watchtower would be out comission. I think Cadmus would've opted for a disabling the tower rather than destroying it.

Quote:
But thats not what Cadmus is trying to do. They arent looking for a war. They are just arming themselves just in case. That is why getting The Annihilator makes sense instead of trying to start trouble by blowing up a cannon.

Are they? It seems to me that Cadmus is planning something, like Supremus, they've resorted to working with villans and in the realm of dark magick. Also, they've infiltrated the Watchtower to steal a device. If they were looking to "arm themselves" they would've done something else. Risking lives of people, even supervillians, is something big. I'm surprised the Justice League hasn't retaliated or let the Nations know what happen.

Also, Cadmus engineered Doomsday who was specifically design to kill Superman. Superman's more or less the leader of the League and in war fare, taking out the leader is generally how a war is won.

-Ty

[Knight]

Also, Cadmus engineered Doomsday who was specifically design to kill Superman. Superman's more or less the leader of the League and in war fare, taking out the leader is generally how a war is won.

-TyCadmus engineered Doomsday to kill Superman in the event that he went "bad" again like in Legacy. Not just for the sake of killing him outright. Doomsday was meant as a countermeasure. Unfortunately for Cadmus he proved to be too uncontrollable for that.

As I have said before I don't think Cadmus wants to destroy the JLU just to do it. They want to be prepared for when and if they step over the line. If Cadmus wanted to do something drastic to the League they would have by now. Waller knows Batman's secret id , she could expose him and crush his life at anytime but she hasn't. Why? Because she hasn't had a reason to. Not yet anyway.

[dpm07]

Cadmus engineered Doomsday to kill Superman in the event that he went "bad" again like in Legacy. Not just for the sake of killing him outright. Doomsday was meant as a countermeasure. Unfortunately for Cadmus he proved to be too uncontrollable for that.

As I have said before I don't think Cadmus wants to destroy the JLU just to do it. They want to be prepared for when and if they step over the line. If Cadmus wanted to do something drastic to the League they would have by now. Waller knows Batman's secret id , she could expose him and crush his life at anytime but she hasn't. Why? Because she hasn't had a reason to. Not yet anyway.
As always, very good points, Knight.

[warmachine04]

Surprisingly fun episode. Its breezy but still quite enjoyable. There is some good chemistry between Wonder Woman and Shayera. The ending felt weak but opens some nice secrets in Wonder Woman's life. :)

[LadyM]

You know, I was thinking today...

How does Shayera, an alien who is a self-acknowledged atheist, who went so far as to kill her own people's god, know enough about Earth religous systems to make a reference to angels? I know she's been on earth like, 6 or 7 years now, but I don't see this alien atheist reading up on Earth religious systems, or even watching enough television to absorb pop culture angel references.
Isn't Zauriel in the JLU too? I was really surprised he wasn't in this episode, actually . . .

~LM~

[Trevor Balena]

Isn't Zauriel in the JLU too?

Nope. Be cool if he was, though.

[LadyM]

Oh, too bad! I guess I'm thinking of the JLU comic. He was helping fight Darkseid in one of them.

~LM~

[Alba Aulbath]

Oh, too bad! I guess I'm thinking of the JLU comic. He was helping fight Darkseid in one of them.

~LM~
Figure it might be another one of those animation rights? Blue Beetle's got that problem, but he was in the JLU comics... gosh dernnit.