DCAU Clayface vs. "The" Clayface (BIG SPOILERS!)

[Style]

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/batman/episodes/FeatOfClay/part02/22.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/thebatman/episodes/19meltdown/27.jpg

If everyone feels compelled to keep doing these "vs" threads, let's do one right. Comparing and contrasting the two Clayfaces is far more interesting than the other comparisons to date.

In one corner, we have Matt Hagen, big time star-turned petty criminal-turned malevolent mudball. In retrospect, not a deep character. He's bitter and lashes out even at people who try to help him. Probably the deepest character work with him was in "growing pains." And even then, it wasn't really Clayface per se. On the other hand, he does have that masterful theme, a great fight sequance in "Feat of Clay," and "Mudslide" (a personal favorite) to his credit.

In the other corner, we have Ethan Bennet. Gotham PD, and man of conscience, brought low through Chief Rojas' rediculous scramble for good PR instead of helping people. Unlike Hagan, Bennet does sincerely try for help, but is thwarted by Rojas' childish "No Tolerance for freaks" policy. Betrayed by the people he worked with, the people he protected, and the person he stuck up for, (Batman,) Bennet is virtually given no choice but to lash out. This causes him to take Joker's lesson to heart, that one rotten day is all that's neccisary for the world to turn it's back on you. Two Great epiosodes, and a season of build up character work all to Ethan's credit.

Oh, I'm just talking about character. If you're talking about power, the case can easily be made in Ethan's favor.

[Simpler Simon]

Thats a tough call...I think it was one of Maxie's essays that first made me realize Hagen isn't all that sympathetic when you really look at him....but damnit, he's got Shirley Walker, TMS, and Ron Perlman backing him! What kind of fair fight is that?

Ethan though, had the element of surprise. If I was ten years old and watching The Batman, I never would've guessed they'd take such a static and repetitive character and transform him into Clayface. With Harvey Dent you had the comic book fans who knew where things were heading, but Ethan's twist came outta nowhere. Plus, he's got Greg Weisman as his personal caretaker.

Hmm...limme get back to u on this....

[Harley_Quinn]

Very close in my opinion but I would go with DCAU Clayface

[Bird Boy]

Now this is just about the only worthy "vs" thread I've seen here in a loong time and one that certainly tears me in both directions. They're both dramatic transformations--one bent on keeping his face in repair so he can still do what he loves to do and the other just got the wrong end of the stick.

As weird as it is to say it, I honestly think The Batman Clayface wins out. It's just such a dramatic character and a transformation you didn't expect, made all the more saddening that you built his character up over the course of the series. Matt Hagen is great, but even with Ron Perlman doing the voice...on the emotional level, it doesn't touch what Weisman did with Bennett.

-BB

[Zero-V]

I'll have to go with "The Batman" Clayface, the way it happened was shocking and unexpected, and it seemed more appropriate given his development and bond with Bruce and Ynn over the season.

[Killtacular]

Now this is just about the only worthy "vs" thread I've seen here in a loong time and one that certainly tears me in both directions.
What? Surely you don't think those other threads were veiled attempts to mock The Batman do you? That's CRAZY TALK! I'd never expect that!


As weird as it is to say it, I honestly think The Batman Clayface wins out. It's just such a dramatic character and a transformation you didn't expect, made all the more saddening that you built his character up over the course of the series. Matt Hagen is great, but even with Ron Perlman doing the voice...on the emotional level, it doesn't touch what Weisman did with Bennett.
It'd be nice if Cartoon Network had 26 episodes of the show to run through over the summer. I don't know if they do or not. They got all 39 episodes of Mucha Lucha when they bought that from Kids WB, before Kids WB even finished airing them. Don't know what stipulations are in place. But it'd be nice if we could see them earlier. I want to be able to compare the Clayfaces but I don't feel like hunting down some lame bittorrent somewhere on the internet.

I do know that Ron Perlman is tough to beat in the voice acting department. Also I'm still probably the only person that likes the episode with Robin protecting Annie; whenever I mention that episode amongst other people (not here) they tell me how sick they were of that episode constantly airing. Oh well.

[Br'er Lappin]

The DCAU Clayface is much better. The fact that he was an actor makes his impersonations more believable than the The Batman's version.

[Bird Boy]

The DCAU Clayface is much better. The fact that he was an actor makes his impersonations more believable than the The Batman's version.

As far as I know, he never impersonated anyone other than people he'd previously seen. Yin, Bennett and an Arkham guard is the extent of it I think. At least from the screens of it I've seen anyway...

-BB

[Krypton_Knight]

I like the DCAU Clayface more - especially in "Feat of Clay II" - but "The Batman" one is quite good.

KK

[Revelator]

Also I'm still probably the only person that likes the episode with Robin protecting Annie
Outside this board I can't say, but I've yet to meet anyone on this board who disliked the episode. I liked it but couldn't buy Clayface being able to practically spawn a "daughter" from himself. As for the debate, I think The Batman's Clayface is a far more interesting character (though whether he'll remain so after "Meltdown" is up for debate) but nowhere as physically imposing as BTAS' Clayface, who is basically an unscrupulous big thug. Hagen is so much more of a sleazebag that he's got the unethical edge, and he's so much bigger that he's got a physical one too. I bet my money on Hagen.

[Simpler Simon]

The DCAU Clayface is much better. The fact that he was an actor makes his impersonations more believable than the The Batman's version. Outside of Bruce Wayne and Rupert Thorne (from the Sega CD game), I'm trying to think of situations where the DCAU Clayface has had to impersonate someone. By impersonate, I mean actually taking the form of a familiar celebrity or character, and not just some joe-blow security guard or doctor that anyone could imitate. I can only recall the rich English guy from the beginning of Mudslide, which was botched when Clayface forgot the accent.

EDIT: There was also Flash from Secret Society, but Batman saw through that impersonation easily. Some actor :p

[TimTwoFace]

Even now, I haven't gotten over the idea of multiple Clayfaces that have been used in the comics - there have been six thus far. For me, I've always liked the Matt Hagen version the best - it just seemed the most fleshed out.

I must say, though, THE BATMAN'S version of Clayface holds a lot of potential - not because of what powers he has (which are different from Hagen's) but because of who he is, and his relationship with the other protagonists. It's definitely a noble effort and an interesting idea - it's kind of like THE BATMAN'S version of the Batman/Two-Face dynamic - and thus far, while it still doesn't match the best DCAU shows, it's definitely an entertaining and intriguing expose with a lot of potential.

As for hand-to-hand combat, I would say that Ethan Bennett's Clayface would win; he's a lot angrier, doesn't care about his agression anymore, doesn't even WANT to be cured, and is lightning quick - whereas Hagen's powers were more of the slow, menacing type. Both are great, but in a brawl, I'd pick Ethan to win.

I wonder where Inque factors into this mess.

-Tim

[Alba Aulbath]

Haven't see the TB version of Clayface, but suffice to say, I'm not a huge Clayface fan.

Still, I think I'll roll with the TB version of Clayface in a not-very-big secret. The concept is very, very interesting; Ethan was established well before his transformation, which makes his role as Clayface very tragic indeed. I already liked him better than his partner by just one viewing of TB. Matt Hagen never quite struck me as other villains have; I'll go with Ethan Bennet on this one.

[Anthonynotes]

I haven't seen TB Clayface, but I voted for the DCAU version anyway (out of personal principle/taste re: both shows... :-) ).

[Teo]

Now this is just about the only worthy "vs" thread I've seen here in a loong time and one that certainly tears me in both directions. They're both dramatic transformations--one bent on keeping his face in repair so he can still do what he loves to do and the other just got the wrong end of the stick.

As weird as it is to say it, I honestly think The Batman Clayface wins out. It's just such a dramatic character and a transformation you didn't expect, made all the more saddening that you built his character up over the course of the series. Matt Hagen is great, but even with Ron Perlman doing the voice...on the emotional level, it doesn't touch what Weisman did with Bennett.

-BBOuch. As tongue-in-cheek as it may have been, my Alfred poll wasn't in anyway an attempt to bash TB and it had genuine interesting possibilities for character study. :) (In a side note, I have absolutely no animosity towards The Batman, its creators, or their families).

In this case, however, I have a hard time choosing my Clayface. They really both are well done, tragic stories. Maybe it's just that CF lends himself to emotional, dramatic stories but in both series his episodes represent some of the best each has to offer. I'm gonna have to call it a statistical dead-heat, partly because I don't like ranking things, but primarily because each one excels in its world wonderfully. Why dimminsh one for the other when they have different strengths and weaknesses.

[Azrael24]

i chose clayface from the batman, i haven't seen the clayface episodes but from what i've heard he sounds like a really good and well-developed character. so is the other one but you feel more sympathy for ethan than you do for hagen

[Doomsday]

The BTAS Clayface is great like most BTAS villians. Growing Pains is one of my favorite episodes. BTAS Clayface is great but The Batman's Clayface is alittle bit better. They used a character we already knew and pulled a Twoface/Joker Robin twist. To bad that none of the other TB villians are as well done as Clayface.