C&C - Ghost in the Shell - "Equinox" [4/16]

[The Landstander]

Say Equinox 10 times fast, I dare you.

[ClockStomper]

Last week I was hopping up down hoping they'd explain the Laughinman thing. If Kunasagi dosen't spill the beans this week, every GITS DVD in existance is going into a bonfire.

[blue_blood]

Say Equinox 10 times fast, I dare you.



equinox equinox equinox equinox equinox equinox equinox equinox eqa equo dammit

[Hakuhatsu]

JMSDF... Japan Maratine Self Defense Force. A refference to last weeks ep. with Aramaki and the former Prime Minister, where the PM mentioned Nimi (or maybe one of Nimi's network buddies) connections to the Navy.

[Ben]

It was the Major all along?!

DUUUUUDE!

Dude.

[Juu-kuchi]

Wow. Well that was a clever ruse that revealed quite a number of things.

[NickWhiz1]

:eek::eek::eek: @ ending

Didn't see that coming.

[Jack Frenzy]

Man, what a twist ending.

I thought something was out of character when the Laughing Man made a point of identifying the make of his gun.

[Gatomon41]

So everything makes sense now. Well, most things at least. The Laughing Man, Micromachines, even the coffee house was connected. Cool twist at the end, and many answered questions. a 4 out of 5.

Who names a coffee house Starchild? Sounds like a 2001 reference to me.

[Youko Recca]

Obviously the high point of this episiode was that ending. Dang was that sweet. Actually listening to all this info wasn't boring. Probally cause it's always new and comes with purpose. Funny still though.

[Anime411]

THAT WAS AWESOME!! That was a SUPERB twist, and I kept thinking Aoi looked like the Major, how funny is that?? :D :D It was kinda dull with the speaking yes, but the beginning with Batou and the ending with Major made it worthwhile :D

[Funkatron]

The Major using the LM's memories to pose as the Lm was slick and sweet.

The DVD's can't come soon enough. You really got to watch these eps multiple times to get all the facts straight.

At least we know what really happened during the LM's first and only TV appearence. I also think its slick how they used the LM as a cover for the blackmails

[Triplet Trouble]

The DVD's can't come soon enough. You really got to watch these eps multiple times to get all the facts straight.
Volume 6 isn't due out on DVD until May 17th - AAAAAAARRRGGGGGHHHHH! That seems like a year from now. :)

[PickHut]

It was nice to get some more info about the Laughing Man and his incidents, but it was hard to really get into the episode sometimes. It felt like the pacing was too slow at times, there were moments where I drifted off for a few seconds. The twist at the ending was real good, though; when I saw Batou confront "him" in the alley, it just came to me, and then the Major just came busting out of that outfit.

I give Equinox a B-.

[Hakuhatsu]

Funkatron,

Tell me about it. And I have a pending job oppertunity overseas that may cause me to miss the Vol. 7 release in July. :mad: I'm deffinately going to stay up and watch the repeat... again, it was too much info. to absorb at once. I did like the explanation on how LM was able to hack into peoples' eyes and video systems, however, was unable to fool the interceptors.


PickHut,

"and then the Major just came busting out of that outfit."

Mmmmmm, yes. :nurse: The suprise twist was a nice touch as well.

[Paul_Cousins]

This was a great episode 5 out of 5 stars, even if it was a recap episode, I loved the twist at the end of the episode. :cool:

I love a series where BOTH the heroes and villians can pull off wickedly convincing minds towards the viewing audience, let alone other characters in the series. :zim:

And dare I ask how much the Major's cyber-hacking skills have been increased after her LM 'up-grade' from the previous episode... ;)

I guess we now know that cyborgs in GitS:SAC can change the voice patterns on the fly. :cool:

[Hakuhatsu]

Hey,

Anyone else notice that there was a Jameson-type crossing the street during the begining of the scene with the LM/Kusanagi and Serano when LM/Kusanagi comments on how much the scene has changed since their last chat?

Sampo, gonna need visual confirmation on that.

(Also, a pic of the Major leaning against the desk, arms folded, would be much appreciated as well.)

Onigaishimasu.

Also, just noticed during the flashback in the plaza; the LM's hand wasn't shaking while wielding the pistol, unlike the original footage shown in previous episodes.

[Lightwave]

Hey...

Anybody happen to have a screen capture of the scene where The 'Laughing Man' and co are heading down the road, and it zooms out, showing the city and freeways and such? If so, I'd really like to get it.

On to the episode...

Hella nice, in my opinion. I've loved the series so far, and I thought the twist at the end of the episode was well pulled off, what with the Major pulling off the impersonation using the Laughing Man's memories. Pure brilliance.

[Anime 51]

Also, just noticed during the flashback in the plaza; the LM's hand wasn't shaking while wielding the pistol, unlike the original footage shown in previous episodes.Maybe the "shaking hand" was just a side effect of witnesses' cyber-brains being hacked.

[ClockStomper]

Maybe the "shaking hand" was just a side effect of witnesses' cyber-brains being hacked.
I agree it was a hack, as it co-oberates the kidnapping story the police believed. But the question is, did LM make that particular alteration or the ones who wanted to paint him as a terrorist?

[Sampo]

Hi there caller number one, what is your request for tonight?



Hey...

Anybody happen to have a screen capture of the scene where The 'Laughing Man' and co are heading down the road, and it zooms out, showing the city and freeways and such? If so, I'd really like to get it.
...
Here you go! Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/cityscape.jpg) I hope that is good enough?

So on to caller number two! What's your name and what's your request?


Hey,

Anyone else notice that there was a Jameson-type crossing the street during the begining of the scene with the LM/Kusanagi and Serano when LM/Kusanagi comments on how much the scene has changed since their last chat?

Sampo, gonna need visual confirmation on that.
...
Sure here you go!

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/jamerson.jpg

Anything else you need?



...

(Also, a pic of the Major leaning against the desk, arms folded, would be much appreciated as well.)

Onigaishimasu.
...
I wonder if I got the request right this time? Anyway, there you go!

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/major.jpg



...
Also, just noticed during the flashback in the plaza; the LM's hand wasn't shaking while wielding the pistol, unlike the original footage shown in previous episodes. Dang nice catch there! I didn't pay attention to that little detail till you pointed it out.

Thank you for calling in! On to the next request!


:eek::eek::eek: @ ending

Didn't see that coming. Hey get off the line! That's not a request... Ah whatever, the ending caught me off guard as well.


http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/majorclip.jpg

The fake laughing man revealing herself.



As PickHut stated, the Major came Busting out of that outfit :anime: Great line there BTW!



...
And dare I ask how much the Major's cyber-hacking skills have been increased after her LM 'up-grade' from the previous episode... ;)

I guess we now know that cyborgs in GitS:SAC can change the voice patterns on the fly. :cool:
Aye she is good. I wonder if that ability to change her voice is one of the illegal mods her new body has that her female companion mentioned in that episode?

Oh well. Here are some other pics that were not requested. But you are stuck reading this thread and most likely too lazy to change the dial to tune into another thread. So now I will force you to look at these pics against your will!

If Starbucks ever use this Logo, I would gladly pay $3.50 for a "short" cup of coffee. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/gitsimage10.jpg)

Here is the original image I was going to post for that clip. I went with the other one... cuz... *scratches head and ponders abit* I have no clue why. :sweat: Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/gitsimage8.jpg)

Serano = OWNED by those guys. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/gitsimage9.jpg)

Thank you for reading DJ Sampo's request line, now I'll turn you over to our next host with some silly made up name that you haven't heard of before. Night all.

[Lightwave]

Yeah, I think I can use that one. Thanks bunches.

[Paul_Cousins]

Aye she is good. I wonder if that ability to change her voice is one of the illegal mods her new body has that her female companion mentioned in that episode?That's a good question... :cool:

And those images you posted/link to are great. ;)

[Funkatron]

Wait...the resteraunt logo...could he have made that logo right then and there on the fly when he decided to do that television thing?

[jmcc]

Boy, I sure do like this show. A few thoughts:

-I don't doubt the Major and section 9's hacking skills, but I can't help but think the real LM wouldn't have been spotted on the interceptors.

-Up until now I had this idea of Serano in my head that he was just a archetypical evil CEO. Seeing him chatting it up with LM on the philosophy of corporate and governmental corruption (albeit through a brain hack) was cool. Either that or he caught a quick case of Stockholm.

-Nice coincidence that the Major and LM are roughly the same height and hairstyle, but wouldn't her purple hair have stood out to Serano?

-I wonder how the Sec9 members are gearing up for the upcoming skirmish. Surely they know that when they decide to take it to that Senator (or whatever he was) he's going to use his pull with the military to fight them tooth and nail. Their last battle with military hardware was not in their favor, and that was just one armored suit. I've got a feeling this guy can bring a lot more to a fight if he wants.

[Funkatron]

Boy, I sure do like this show. A few thoughts:

-I don't doubt the Major and section 9's hacking skills, but I can't help but think the real LM wouldn't have been spotted on the interceptors.

-Up until now I had this idea of Serano in my head that he was just a archetypical evil CEO. Seeing him chatting it up with LM on the philosophy of corporate and governmental corruption (albeit through a brain hack) was cool. Either that or he caught a quick case of Stockholm.

-Nice coincidence that the Major and LM are roughly the same height and hairstyle, but wouldn't her purple hair have stood out to Serano?

-I wonder how the Sec9 members are gearing up for the upcoming skirmish. Surely they know that when they decide to take it to that Senator (or whatever he was) he's going to use his pull with the military to fight them tooth and nail. Their last battle with military hardware was not in their favor, and that was just one armored suit. I've got a feeling this guy can bring a lot more to a fight if he wants. 1. Not unless she didn't hack the intecepters on purpose..duh duh duuuuh! It probably was a set up not just for Serano but for the higher ups who put the intercepters in in the first place. To make them think the LM was doing the kidnapping when it was Kusanagi all along. Or am I reading into it.
2. Now that you mention it, I agree. I thought he'd be one of those cutthroat types as well
3. She was hacking everybody's eyes, probably including Serano. She probably hacked him so she'd look a bit closer to the LM. Notice that the LM has dark grey/black eyes and the majors is...red??? I forgot her eye color. Can someone verify?
4. Right when they need Tachekomas the most. Hope that means the blue bots will make a comeback!

Gah, damn you DVD's!!!! I need to do a Complex Episode marathon

[Swordfish_II]

3. She was hacking everybody's eyes, probably including Serano. She probably hacked him so she'd look a bit closer to the LM. Notice that the LM has dark grey/black eyes and the majors is...red??? I forgot her eye color. Can someone verify?
Burnt seinna (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1608110&postcount=1).

[Funkatron]

Burnt seinna (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1608110&postcount=1).
lets just call it burnt red ;P

but yeah, Serano was probably hacked so he wouldn't tell the difference.

[Lord Dalek]

To be fair I did see Laughing Man turn out to be Kusanagi at least 15 minutes in.

That said Mary McGlynn does a great Steve Blum impersonation. :p

[Hakuhatsu]

Sampo,

Yes, those are the two I was talking about, much appreciated. Especially that shot of the Jamison crossing the street, just one of those things that adds depth and interest ("ambience?") to the show. BTW, being a radio DJ, I quite enjoyed the "call in request line" bit, very nice.


As for the points Funkatron and jmcc have been discussing...

On the point of the LM/Major and the Interceptors, I'll concour with Funkatron. Maybe s/he allowed him/herself to be spotted to reiterate how "infected" the police forces are with Interceptors, and possibly trying to puncutate the more covert and malevolent activities of Serano Genomics Corp.

That Serano sat and debated the pros and cons of micromachines with a student for two days is interesting to note, as many CEOs would have granted LM two minutes, let alone any form of an audience for his anti-micromachine/pro Murai Virus stance.

The Major vs. Laughing Man's physical attributes are similar although maybe not identical. Maybe the Major's hacking skills allowed her hair and eyes to be perceived as darker colors (or maybe some of the "mods" on her new body allowed her to physically change her hair and eye color)?

Tachikomas' return? Maybe not. But whatever's about to happen, it's going to be a heck of a fight.

[LiquidXIR]

They made the Laughing Man way to Holden Caulfield like.

[Anime411]

You guys have nearly everthing down XD Umm...let's see, Liquid, thats the whole point. It's all about Salinger lately, with Catcher in the Rye and all XD Also, the Jameson types are in the Tachikoma shorts, gotta love 'em. I bet Major hacked their eyes, as she did in the beginning. Aoi would not show up on the interceptors before, so that was the biggest clue to saying Major was the LM the whole time. Smooth episode, I just can't wait for Togusa to come back next episode :D Not that I know or anything, it's just there are only 3 episodes left XD

[PickHut]

"and then the Major just came busting out of that outfit."

Mmmmmm, yes. :nurse:

As PickHut stated, the Major came Busting out of that outfit :anime: Great line there BTW!Baha, believe it or not, I didn't mean it like that when I typed it up. But I did thought about it after I posted it:sweat: .

[lostrune]

A complex Equinox....

1. So it got them by hacking their Medusa interceptors in the eyes? :eek:

2. So, that's what happened 6 years ago. Laughing Man was mind-diving Serano for some old-fashioned debate. :shrug:

3. So, did the Cafe use the LM logo for its own, or did the LM originally used the Cafe's LM logo for his own when he unexpectedly had to cover his face in front of the TV camera 6 years ago? :sweat:
(Starchild = Starbucks, though there is a Japanese production company called Starchild in many anime.)

4. So, the "other" LM copycat incidents was actually done by the government conspiracy? :ack:

5. So, the Major used her given LM memory to pull the deception of. I guess she does look like the LM from the top. :)

[Gatomon41]

4. So, the "other" LM copycat incidents was actually done by the government conspiracy? :ack: Maybe from the begining it was a government conspiracy. But for some reason, the Laughing Man began to develop into a meme and a cultural phenominon.

I wonder what does the interceptors, the assiantion attempts on that police chief, and that guy trying to pretend to be laughing man (in those early complex episodes) have to connect with everything else?

Oh, points to the LM for improvising a hostage sitiuation like that. The voice, the LM face, and even the gun, all brillant. I say the LM is one of the shows' great antiheros.

[Hades]

A complex Equinox....

3. So, did the Cafe use the LM logo for its own, or did the LM originally used the Cafe's LM logo for his own when he unexpectedly had to cover his face in front of the TV camera 6 years ago? :sweat:
(Starchild = Starbucks, though there is a Japanese production company called Starchild in many anime.)

Starchild is also the name of a company in Japan that releases dvds. They released the first 12 Yugioh dvds before MMV took over.

[Ultra8]

A brilliantly done deception. And how the LM incident really happened is finally revealed. Looks like Sec.9 is in war mode now.

10/10

[Fresh V]

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/rq/jamerson.jpg

You know, the first time I saw that, I thought it was a real picture from real life. Wow.

[LiquidXIR]

Liquid, thats the whole point

It's not actually, the LM was never the one who wanted to be called that, and his original dialogue never made him out to be half as angry as he came out to be. Yes, obviously Salinger plays a big part and will be referenced even more as the series finishes, but making him a clone of Caulfield couldnt have been the intention

[Regus]

I liked this episode a lot...until the ending that is. I guess this has a lot to do with my distaste for the Major, but having her pop up like that really cheapened the episode for me. Her involvement takes away a lot of the cool factor for me.

Aside from that though, very cool episode.

[Hakuhatsu]

Law enforcement agencies frequently have members of their ranks who infiltrate and impersonate members of criminal orgainizations to obtain information, such as Vice Squad, Narcotics, etc. To have had the Major impersonate the LM is nothing out of the ordinary in police practices, section 9 included. I had assumed (and I assume many others on this board may have as well) that after last week's episode where the LM told the Major that he wanted to be able to act on his own without interference, that it was indeed the LM meeting with Serano. However, it's not beyond reality that it was a section 9 sting from the get-go, but I can only speculate at this point.

[Paul_Cousins]

Law enforcement agencies frequently have members of their ranks who infiltrate and impersonate members of criminal orgainizations to obtain information, such as Vice Squad, Narcotics, etc. To have had the Major impersonate the LM is nothing out of the ordinary in police practices, section 9 included. I had assumed (and I assume many others on this board may have as well) that after last week's episode where the LM told the Major that he wanted to be able to act on his own without interference, that it was indeed the LM meeting with Serano. However, it's not beyond reality that it was a section 9 sting from the get-go, but I can only speculate at this point.Actually, in modern day Japan, it is illegal for the police there to go undercover, they consider it a form of entrapment, which I agree with their logic.

[Funkatron]

I bet American cop shows are really popular, then :p

[Hakuhatsu]

Paul,

I was unaware of that fact, I was going on my knowledge of American law enforcement tactics (I was a Criminal Justice major for a few years in college, have many friends and a couple of relatives who are cops) and was speculating on the Major's motives to impersonate the LM.


Funkatron,

Not sure how popular "cop shows" are, there were a couple anime on TV during my time there (1998-2000) and Fuji Television (the good folks who brought us Ryori no Tetsujin ("Iron Chef")) was re-running an old cop show from the 70s - 80s called "Seibu Keisatsu" (Western Police). Deffinately NOT reflective of Japanese police practices of the time, lots of action (I don't know how many Nissan police cars were wrecked during the production of the show), more of a Japanese take on "Hollywood" cop action/dramas. The show is still fairly popular over there, according to some Japanese friends of mine at the time. I'm sure there have been some American cop shows that have been popular over there too (not sure what shows have been exported at the moment). I remember the X-Files was pretty popular while I was there.

[Funkatron]

From what I've seen of police based anime, the Japanese sure do love over the top action sequences and gun toting female cops who can do 10 types of karate.

I sure hope they don't see us as being like that :p

[Timmay]

I remember a video of a japanese police force going after a guy in a car for running from the cops, he crashed and got out of the car with a bat and the police got back in their cars and drove off after he chased them to their cars.

[Hakuhatsu]

There was an incident (in Tokyo, I believe) where a mentally disturbed individual held Japanese police at bay with a baseball bat. They apprehended him when he tried to drive off with one of their squad cars. The incident made the national news in Japan and the Police received a severe reprimand from PM Koizumi along with reviews of how new recruits are trained.

You can be sure that neither the Major nor Batou wouldn't let an incident like that go as far as it did.

[Hakuhatsu]

Anyway, along the lines of government conspiracy and covert police actions, Gatomon41 had a question...


"Maybe from the begining it was a government conspiracy. But for some reason, the Laughing Man began to develop into a meme and a cultural phenominon.

I wonder what does the interceptors, the assiantion attempts on that police chief, and that guy trying to pretend to be laughing man (in those early complex episodes) have to connect with everything else?"


Well, I just popped in my DVDs and rewatched those first few LM eps and this is what I can figure...

The police had a new law put into effect concerning sensory recording devices and began implementing the use of Interceptors, which allowed the police to covertly monitor suspects activities and arrest them based on the recorded evidence. The company that won the contract to supply the Interceptors to the police was Serano Genomics. Nanao A. was the programmer/technition that developed the actual technology behind the Interceptors, and it was speculated that he was the one who was behind the reimergence of the Laughing Man.

So why assasonate the Superintendent General? Based on the evidence of the Superintendent General's plans to retire to the Netherlands and the fact that Serano Genomics' headquarters is located in Amsterdam, and Serano Genomics is the one that supplied the Interceptors, one can assume, then, that the Superintendent General was taking kickbacks from Serano. Also one of his former associates from his radical days pointed out, Nanao was a real fanatic and loose cannon and one of the guys in the chatroom (Baby Ruth, I think) Nanao had a server full of blackmail plans and whatnot, and yet went off on his own tangent with the assasination plot.

Now, whether or not Nanao developed that server full of plots or if the LM supplied him with the ideas and used him as a scapegoat to exact revenge on Serano Genomics is debateable (the LM is quite an accomplished hacker, but Kusanagi also made the comment about a "phenomenon created by copycats without an original"). Personally, I'm inclinded to think it was LM who supplied Nanao (who already had an existing grudge against Serano) with the tools to carry out the acts, but Nanao wanted to take it a step further to carry out the assasination.

So what does any of this have to do with what's going on now? Serano was one of the major players in the micromachine vs. Murai Virus debate in the treatment of Cyberbrain Scroliosis. And it was Serano and a few other micromachine manufacturers (like Japan Micro Industries, Sagawa Electronics and Satsuma Medtech) that were blackmailed and ininudated with viruses by LM (which led to their stocks crashing) six years prior to the series. It was the whole Interceptor fiasco and the actions of Nanao A. that forced the LM to re-emerge and expose exploitative corporations and their dirty deeds.

So, that's the connection between the events of the begining of the series and the events that are unfolding right now.

[Vallen Valiant]

Anyway, along the lines of government conspiracy and covert police actions, Gatomon41 had a question...


"Maybe from the begining it was a government conspiracy. But for some reason, the Laughing Man began to develop into a meme and a cultural phenominon.

I wonder what does the interceptors, the assiantion attempts on that police chief, and that guy trying to pretend to be laughing man (in those early complex episodes) have to connect with everything else?"


Well, I just popped in my DVDs and rewatched those first few LM eps and this is what I can figure...

The police had a new law put into effect concerning sensory recording devices and began implementing the use of Interceptors, which allowed the police to covertly monitor suspects activities and arrest them based on the recorded evidence. The company that won the contract to supply the Interceptors to the police was Serano Genomics. Nanao A. was the programmer/technition that developed the actual technology behind the Interceptors, and it was speculated that he was the one who was behind the reimergence of the Laughing Man.

So why assasonate the Superintendent General? Based on the evidence of the Superintendent General's plans to retire to the Netherlands and the fact that Serano Genomics' headquarters is located in Amsterdam, and Serano Genomics is the one that supplied the Interceptors, one can assume, then, that the Superintendent General was taking kickbacks from Serano. Also one of his former associates from his radical days pointed out, Nanao was a real fanatic and loose cannon and one of the guys in the chatroom (Baby Ruth, I think) Nanao had a server full of blackmail plans and whatnot, and yet went off on his own tangent with the assasination plot.

Now, whether or not Nanao developed that server full of plots or if the LM supplied him with the ideas and used him as a scapegoat to exact revenge on Serano Genomics is debateable (the LM is quite an accomplished hacker, but Kusanagi also made the comment about a "phenomenon created by copycats without an original"). Personally, I'm inclinded to think it was LM who supplied Nanao (who already had an existing grudge against Serano) with the tools to carry out the acts, but Nanao wanted to take it a step further to carry out the assasination.

So what does any of this have to do with what's going on now? Serano was one of the major players in the micromachine vs. Murai Virus debate in the treatment of Cyberbrain Scroliosis. And it was Serano and a few other micromachine manufacturers (like Japan Micro Industries, Sagawa Electronics and Satsuma Medtech) that were blackmailed and ininudated with viruses by LM (which led to their stocks crashing) six years prior to the series. It was the whole Interceptor fiasco and the actions of Nanao A. that forced the LM to re-emerge and expose exploitative corporations and their dirty deeds.

So, that's the connection between the events of the begining of the series and the events that are unfolding right now.Interesting theory...

Except for one fact that you've missed.
With the exception of the mental institution he took over briefly, LM works alone.

[Hakuhatsu]

Something else I neglected to mention was the covert use of Interceptors within the police department itself, particularly among those who were on the LM case. Serano could monitor the investigation as it unfolded, unhindered (as the detectives/investigators were unaware that they had been "bugged") and then deal with LM as they saw fit. It was, after all, the guy with the birthmark on his left cheek who worked for Serano (former police detective) who shot Nanao in his hotel room. So that aspect of police involvement was probably one that precipitated Nanao's assassination plot and also brought the LM out of hiding as well.

[Fresh V]

Eh, this episode was okay. The conversation was too long and confusing for me to understand most of it. But at least I understood some of it. The best part of the show was definately the end when the Major revealed that she disguised herself. That was awesome.

So, an okay episode. I give GitS: SAC - "Equinox" a B.