DC Comics publishing history question...

[wonderfly]

A couple months back, I managed to come across a buttload of old DC comics which I scooped up at a low price. Knowing not NEARLY as much about DC as I do about Marvel, I have a few questions:

I got some Batman issues from the late 70's or early 80's. They don't have issue numbers on the front covers?!? Is this something that DC did for a while? Because it seems like I recall other DC comics from this period have issue numbers on the front covers...

Also, I got a HUGE selection of Legion of Superheroes comics, and this title, (which I'm just now getting into with the Mark Waid relaunch) apparently has a convoluted publishing history. It started off as "Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes" I think. Then it became just "Legion of Superheroes". Then it became just "Legion" or something, and there was a "Legionaires" spin off...I have a lot of different issues which I'm still combing through, but is it just me, or were they publishing two Legion comics at the same time in the mid 80's? One was in the 300's by that point, and the other was started with a new issue #1 back around 1982 or 83...right? I'm puzzled by this as I didn't think anything besides the Superman, Batman, Spiderman and the Xmen got multiple titles...yet apparently there were multiple Legion titles running at the same time...right?

[Matthew Williams]

I've been learning about the DC history, but I can help with Legion...

around 1984/1985, DC spun Legion and New Teen Titans into new titles with new #1s. however, they kept the original titles going, but with modified titles (Legion became "Tales of the Legion", New Teen Titans v1 became "Tales of the Teen Titans"). For a year, both titles had all-new stories by the same creative team, then the "Tales" titles began to reprint the titles in the v2 titles on about a year delay. So yeah, for a year, there were two legion titles, but just for a year.

[EarthX]

I got some Batman issues from the late 70's or early 80's. They don't have issue numbers on the front covers?!? Is this something that DC did for a while? Because it seems like I recall other DC comics from this period have issue numbers on the front covers.
1. I have some of those "no number" issues.
At the time, comics were all sold in drugstores and were all returnable when the issues got "old".
To prevent having to give refunds, some publishers came up with some tricks to try to keep the issues on the shelves.
A. Use a month 4 months ahead of the one it actually comes out (Changed to 1 month in the Direct Market Age)
B. Don't put the month on the cover. If the owner doesn't open the issue to read the indicia, he won't know how old it is.
C. Don't put the number on the cover. If the owner doesn't open the issue to read the indicia, he won't know which Batman is the old one.
Maybe he'll keep all of them forever...

[EarthX]

Also, I got a HUGE selection of Legion of Superheroes comics, and this title, (which I'm just now getting into with the Mark Waid relaunch) apparently has a convoluted publishing history. It started off as "Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes" I think. Then it became just "Legion of Superheroes". Then it became just "Legion" or something, and there was a "Legionaires" spin off...I have a lot of different issues which I'm still combing through, but is it just me, or were they publishing two Legion comics at the same time in the mid 80's? One was in the 300's by that point, and the other was started with a new issue #1 back around 1982 or 83...right? I'm puzzled by this as I didn't think anything besides the Superman, Batman, Spiderman and the Xmen got multiple titles...yet apparently there were multiple Legion titles running at the same time...right?
LOSH history (dates and issues estimated)

Mid 60s: guest stars in Superman family of titles
Late 60s: ongoing run in "Adventure comics" (#360s and 370s)
Early 70s: Swaps with Supergirl to backups in "Action Comics" (370s)
Mid 70s: become ongoing guest stars in "Superboy" (190s to 210s)
Late 70s: Title changes to "Superboy and the LOSH" (220s to 260s)
Early 80s Superboy bumped to new "Superboy" title.
Old title changes to "LOSH" (270s to 310s)
Mid 80s: DC creates new Direct-only "LOSH" title (65 issues)
Old title changes to "Tales of LOSH" (320s to 350s)
"Tales" has one year of new stuff then reprints 1-year old "LOSH"
Late 80s: "Tales" ends. "LOSH" continues
Early 90s: "LOSH" restarted
Mid 90s: Spin-off title "Legionnaies" started for the Clone Legionnaires
Late 90s: Zero hour reboot has the two titles act like one bi-weekly title
Now: Both titles end, we get "Legion Lost" then "Legion" then a new "LOSH" in succession

[Jack Frenzy]

A couple months back, I managed to come across a buttload of old DC comics which I scooped up at a low price. Excellent!


Also, I got a HUGE selection of Legion of Superheroes comics, and this title, (which I'm just now getting into with the Mark Waid relaunch) apparently has a convoluted publishing history. It started off as "Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes" I think. Then it became just "Legion of Superheroes". Then it became just "Legion" or something, and there was a "Legionaires" spin off...I have a lot of different issues which I'm still combing through, but is it just me, or were they publishing two Legion comics at the same time in the mid 80's? One was in the 300's by that point, and the other was started with a new issue #1 back around 1982 or 83...right? Going back a little further than may be necessary, Superboy had two simultaneous series in the 1950's, "Superboy," and a run in the anthology book, "Adventure Comics."

The Legion debuted in the Superboy story in Adventure 247, and proved such an unexpected hit that within a few years, they had taken over his Adventure slot. However, his Superboy comic continued on.

Later, as their popularity waned, they left Adventure for a short-lived run as a backup feature in Action Comics.

Then, in one of the first great comic-fan campaigns in the early seventies, Legion fans pushed for a new ongoing Legion book.

DC tested the waters with a series of Legion backup stories in Superboy and a four issue "Legion of Super-Heroes" series made up of reprints from Adventure.

The fans continued to push. As a result:

With issue 197, "Superboy" became "Superboy, starring the Legion of Super-Heroes."

With 231, it became "Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes."

With 259, it was just "Legion of Super-Heroes," and Superboy was given his own new short-lived "Superboy" comic.

Soon after, with the coming of Levitz and Giffen, Legion popularity soared in the 80's. Next to Teen Titans, they were probably the number one DC book.

Now, this part gets tricky, but will help answer your questions.

In the mid-80's, DC tried an odd marketing experiment with several of their top lines, including Legion.

Basically, they split the series up into two comics.

The existing comic was renamed "Tales of the Legion of Super-Heroes" with issue 309 and sold in comic shops, newsstands and 7-11's.

A second comic "Legion of Super-Heroes" was restarted at 1, printed on high quality paper and sold only in comic shops.

As part of the plan, "Tales" only presented original stories for one year, after which it reprinted its sister comic. The original stories were essentially side-stories to what was going on in "Legion."

(This is in contrast to "The New Titans" and "Tales of the Teen Titans" or "The Outsiders" and "Adventures of the Outsiders," in which the comic store book's tales were set a year ahead, after the projected original runs of the newsstand books.)

Like the other reprint books, "Tales" eventually died out once the original stories ceased. Everyone was going to comic stores! Who wanted the newsstand reprints?

Legion of Super-Heroes continued on through 63, when Levitz left the book. In honor of his run (or for a new first issue), DC decided to restart the numbering with the new incoming writing team.

Then began the infamous "Five Year Gap." Basically, Giffen was coming back to the book as artist and writer, along with Legion fans Tom and Mary Bierbaum. They wanted to shake things up, so they decided to set their Legion five years later than Levitz' last issue.

To give them time to plan (and as a publicity stunt), they put the book on hiatus for 5 months. When it came back, continuity had jumped five years ahead!

So, we had another "Legion of Super-Heroes" #1! (Third, if you count the four-issue reprint series.)

Their take on the Legion was a radical departure from before, very dark and loaded with ideas (today, we would call them fanfic ideas) culled from the old "Legion Outpost" fanzine that the Bierbaums had participated in. The formerly young-adult legionnaires had all grown into middle-age. The series was very controversial with fans, who either loved or hated it, at least until the end, when everyone hated it.

Along the way, as an attempt to restore popularity by re-introducing a teen Legion, using clones, the sister comic 'Legionnaires" was created to fill the need.

The "Legion"/"Legionnaires" continuity collapsed in popularity, and the Legion was rebooted in the Zero Hour event. The whole Legion series was literally restarted from scratch. The two comics continued on in the new continuity, which was fairly popular for several years, until it wasn't.

Then both series were killed (Final Issues: Legion 125, Legionnaires 81) and the Legion Lost and Legion Worlds minis came and went. Then things got started again with "The Legion" which lasted 38 issues. In the follow-up Titans/Legion mini-series, the Legion got stuck in a time warp and are alive but inaccessible.

Since then, we are on issue four of "The Legion of Super-Heroes," sent in a new alternate (not rebooted) continuity. It's pretty good. In this version, the Legion is more a youth movement revitalizing the galaxy than a super-team.

I hope that answers the Legion portion of your question.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

All of the above discussion about the Legion of Superheroes is one of the reasons why I've never been able to jump into the title. It's not so much a case of "continuity makes it too hard to jump into a new comic" as much as Legion history gives me a totally irrational and deep-seated fear for no reason at all.

The other possibility for the "no numbering" Batman issues are that they're one-shots, but then they'd have odd titles on the cover (like the Batman Special that introduced "the Wrath," (http://members.surfbest.net/argentium@surfbest.net/batmanspec.html) but even that has a number on the DC bullet). I suspect a publication date and a number will be in the tiny print on the inside cover or (usually) in the lower section of the first page. If nothing else, DC would make sure that they had copyright information in the issue somewhere, which would at least give you a year. The tiny print there usually also contains a publication date and an issue number.

-- Ed/Ace

[wonderfly]

My thanks to all of you for your detailed analysis. This is exactly what I needed to sort through this mess! :)


Then began the infamous "Five Year Gap." Basically, Giffen was coming back to the book as artist and writer, along with Legion fans Tom and Mary Bierbaum. They wanted to shake things up, so they decided to set their Legion five years later than Levitz' last issue.

To give them time to plan (and as a publicity stunt), they put the book on hiatus for 5 months. When it came back, continuity had jumped five years ahead!

So, we had another "Legion of Super-Heroes" #1! (Third, if you count the four-issue reprint series.)

Their take on the Legion was a radical departure from before, very dark and loaded with ideas (today, we would call them fanfic ideas) culled from the old "Legion Outpost" fanzine that the Bierbaums had participated in. The formerly young-adult legionnaires had all grown into middle-age. The series was very controversial with fans, who either loved or hated it, at least until the end, when everyone hated it.
Strangely enough, I noticed that the Legion issues I got as part of this collection end with the Issue #1 that you mention above. I guess the person whom I bought this collection off of decided this was his "breaking point" and he didn't want to buy any more Legion after that. What a neat insight into this stranger's comic collection!


All of the above discussion about the Legion of Superheroes is one of the reasons why I've never been able to jump into the title. It's not so much a case of "continuity makes it too hard to jump into a new comic" as much as Legion history gives me a totally irrational and deep-seated fear for no reason at all.Yeah, it's a big mess, but I still recommend picking up the new Legion of Superheroes series by Mark Waid. It does away with the continuity, and just tries to tell a good story!


Since then, we are on issue four of "The Legion of Super-Heroes," sent in a new alternate (not rebooted) continuity. It's pretty good. In this version, the Legion is more a youth movement revitalizing the galaxy than a super-team.Any reason why this new Mark Waid version couldn't just replace the prior version? If the "Legion" series that came out after Zero Hour replaced what had come before, then isn't the new series by Mark Waid doing the same thing? Maybe it'll become official continuity when (and if) "Infinite Crisis" reboots DC history...


I suspect a publication date and a number will be in the tiny print on the inside cover or (usually) in the lower section of the first page. If nothing else, DC would make sure that they had copyright information in the issue somewhere, which would at least give you a year. The tiny print there usually also contains a publication date and an issue number.
Oh yes, they do indeed have issue numbers and publication dates in the small print on the first page. I was just wondering what made DC stop putting the issue number on the cover! That just seems like a natural thing to do! I was worried I had some sort of fluke misprint issues...but going by what you guys are saying here, they're the real deal. They're issues numbers from the early 300's.

[Jack Frenzy]

Any reason why this new Mark Waid version couldn't just replace the prior version? If the "Legion" series that came out after Zero Hour replaced what had come before, then isn't the new series by Mark Waid doing the same thing? Maybe it'll become official continuity when (and if) "Infinite Crisis" reboots DC history... The reason is that DC wanted to be able to bring back the Post-Zero-Hour Legion in case the new series tanked. That's why they make it clear at the end of Titans/Legion that both realities exist.

As for Infinite Crisis effects on Legion: I don't think there will be any, except for connections to Titans/Legion. I believe Barry Kitson stated that the DC editors have agreed not to involve the new Legion in IC. They've just had a major relaunch of the Legion, and are only now getting up to speed. They don't need another reboot in their first year. (They've learned from the Five Year Gap, in which a confusing new continuity was complicated by two back-to-back history-rewriting mini-Crises in the 3rd and 4th issues!)

Also, one of the significant features of the new Legion is its lack of strong ties to 21st century continuity. Although it's cool to tie the Legion to the present-day DCU, this only really worked in the Silver Age when a lot of future history (like Superman marrying Lois Lane) was considered set in stone. Nowadays, when a single crossover can change the entire future or even past (Superboy never existed) of the DCU, it's hard to maintain those ties without a lot of retcons.