Timm -- Abin Sur's the problem

[Mr. Obsession]

Well after reading the Bruce Timm interview (http://wf.toonzone.net/jl/btimminterview.htm) I found it interesting that he said:


One more note about continuity, while we're on the subject: we're not specifically saying the Kyle Rayner episode of "Superman" never happened, we just haven't figured out yet how it COULD have. See, Kyle's not the
problem...ABIN SUR'S the problem!

Consider: if Abin was GL of our sector during "In Brightest Day", how could John Stewart have been our GL for the past10-15 years? Maybe the Kyle episode happens AFTER John becomes Parallax and murders half the galaxy...oh wait, I'm getting my continuities screwed-up...where's my tylenol? Any theories from the fan zone will be duly considered...

So Kyle could still be out there... somewhere.

I've got an idea, they could say that Abin was the Lantern for this sector of the galaxy, when the Guardians offered Stewart the ring. Since Abin was already working in this sector they sent Stewart off to another sector to train (or something). Then with Abin's death and Kyle inheriting his ring the Guardians decided to "transfer" Stewart to this sector and had Kyle go off into deep space to train (or something).


Any other theories?

[Toddman]

I agree with you, Mr. Obsession. That idea has been mentioned before as a possible solution to the John Stewart/Kyle Rayner dilemma, and it would be a very adequite problem solving storyline.

(Stewart could have been Sur's back-up, until he was offered the ring full time and sent off to deep space to patrol his own space sector. That woud explain why nobody in John's old neighborhood had seen him in awhile. It might also set up an interesting origin story for John.)

And wouldn't it be fun to see Kyle come back to Earth AFTER all of his "training" is completed. There would certainly be some conflict in the two GLs' personalities, John the straight-laced military guy opposite Kyle's laid-back artist.

Toddman

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Toddman
I agree with you, Mr. Obsession. That idea has been mentioned before as a possible solution to the John Stewart/Kyle Rayner dilemma, and it would be a very adequite problem solving storyline.

(Stewart could have been Sur's back-up, until he was offered the ring full time and sent off to deep space to patrol his own space sector. That woud explain why nobody in John's old neighborhood had seen him in awhile. It might also set up an interesting origin story for John.)

And wouldn't it be fun to see Kyle come back to Earth AFTER all of his "training" is completed. There would certainly be some conflict in the two GLs' personalities, John the straight-laced military guy opposite Kyle's laid-back artist.

Toddman

Heck Yeah! I posted a simeler type idea, which someone else expanded on in another thread...(we really ought to get them all together or something..*sigh*) anyways

If we had Kyle back...THEN MAYBE WE COULD SEE THE GL DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN BUBBLE/WALL/BEAM!!!

</Rant>

Sorry.

Got carried away...but....GL is very boring in his use of his powers.

[Karkull]

I think that it's pretty simple. Now, the Green Lantern's are an intergalactic police force, right? In order to be a Green Lantern I think that you would need some kind of experience with alien life--so, whenever someone becomes a Green Lantern, they are dileberately given a sector of space to patrol that is not their own so that they can experience working with alien life (think of it as "immersion training").

Flash back to 10-15 years ago: John Stewart is chosen to be a Green Lantern, but he's given a sector of space to patrol that does not include Earth within its borders. He needs to learn about intergalactic life without Earth as a distraction (the bios say that he's been Green Lantern for 10-15 years, but they're not specific about where he served). Besides, Abin Sur is patroling the sector that contains Earth.

Flash forward to the events of In Brightest Day. Abin Sur dies, but not before choosing Kyle Rayner as his successor Green Lantern. Meanwhile, John Stewart has been serving his particular sector of space for 10-15 years--he's learned enough about alien life and has completed his "immersion training" (remember his quote for Secret Origins: "I've seen stranger.") so he's given Abin Sur's old sector of space--the one that contains Earth. As for Kyle--who's just beginning his "immersion training"--he gets a different sector of space to patrol.

Here's hoping that Timm likes our suggestions (could I put it on my resume?).

[Failure]

Very intriguing theory Karkull, I can see how that would work.

[MattL.]

I'll take a shot at it.

John Stewart *was * Green Lantern for all those years, but there was a point where he had a falling out with the Guardians and a loss of faith in general. He thought he'd had enough and gave it up.

John found a worthy successor in Abin Sur. Abin Sur became the Green Lantern of sector 2814 until his battle with Sinestro that landed him on Earth for the events of "In Brighest Day".

Kyle Rayner becomes the new GL (The ring not seeking him out because either it knows John will refuse *or* it did try John and he refused and we simply do not see that moment in the episode.)

Kyle however, being young, impulsive and lacking experience runs into a situation where he wants to play God (basically a disaster along the lines of what happened to Hal only not an Earth city. This could be worked out easily as the home of a love intrest or just playing up the magnitude of the situation in general.)

The Guardians refuse to let Kyle resurect the city and he turns on them when his anguish and rage build to a boiling point. Yes. Kyle Rayner becomes Paralax.

While Kyle may be a lone rouge GL, his level of natural skill and power with the ring is unqiely strong. Many experienced GLs have trouble standing against him.

John Stewart is summoned and told about this. He finally realizes that he cannot walk away from his destiny.

John Stewart must become a Green Lantern once more and sadly, for the fate of the universe he must battle a young and once heroic GL who has been corrupted by a thirst for revenge and power.

[Knight]

Please lets not turn Kyle into Parallax.

[MattL.]

Uh, why not?

I prefer to think of it as Paralax without the BS.

He's not causing Zero Hour or anything like that. He's just an extremely powerful GL who's gone rouge and has to be stopped.

He doesn't even have to die in the story.

[Karkull]

I agree with the Knight--I really don't want to see Kyle become Parallax. First off, the whole thrust of the Parallax story was that Hal Jordan--a Green Lantern who had been one since the Silver Age--went rogue. Kyle was introduced in one episode and hasn't been in one since. No shock value.

Second, it would involve the destruction of the Green Lantern Corps. I think that Timm and company want them there--why else include them? They didn't have to (the current comics don't have them).

And third, I just don't see Kyle as Parallax. He was too...fresh-faced and innocent. He's also way too young to become so grim and disillusioned about his post; a guy like him would have too much damn fun being a Green Lantern to be like that.

You'd have a more interesting story turning John Stewart into Parallax...but that wouldn't work either. The Parallax story is Hal Jordan's alone, but since he's not going to be on the series it should just be ignored.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Karkull
The Paralax story is Hal Jordan's alone, but since he's not going to be on the series it should just be ignored.

exactly.

[The Guard]

Also...the reason Jordan went off and became Parallax was that Coast City was destroyed. His friends and family were gone. They couldn't really show that on JL. Although they did do the thing with Adjuris so...

[MattL.]

Considering how much of a beerslam of Kyle and Hal the TAS Kyle was then I think you're really splitting hairs.

I still dont see whats so drastically non-valid about my idea.

But, whatever.

[The Guard]

I came in late. What was it? Was it to have Kyle do the Parallax thing? Other than the fact that many consider it HAL'S LEGACY or some other tripe, it would be okay. Except he'd have to murder worlds...

[The Guard]

Ok this is dumb...but hear me out. Say Kyle does pull a Parallax. What then? Parallax killed or injured all the GL's for their rings.

Does John Stewart become the only GL? Or the main one?

I like the idea of Kyle training somewhere. Maybe with Kilowog. I personally don't like the Parallax idea. JL is four times a month, so we don't need TONS of events.

Also, do we actually know that the animated Abin Sur is the lantern for sector 2814?

[MattL.]

See, I wouldnt even have him killing Lanterns or destroying worlds.

Simply beause a rouge GL imposing his own will would be more than dramatic enough.

I'd simply have him commiting the atrocity of resurecting that city and then basically weilding a ring under his own personal law.

Basically the intergalactic equivalent to a total vigilante with nothing to keep him in check and no one to answer to for what he does.

While he may think what he's doing is right, he basically ends up becoming an abomination to everything the Corps and what the heroes in the League stand for.

Think of it as he becomes the Punisher with a power ring.

and you can still make Kyle sympathetic in this regard because that would be the entire tragedy of it. He's not an evil person, he just thinks he's doing exactly whats right and what needs to be done not realizing how wrong he is.

The way I would play it, the story would be so much about how Kyle went evil, as much as it would be the redemption of a very young man who once bore the name Green Lantern.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by Mr. Obsession
Well after reading the Bruce Timm interview (http://wf.toonzone.net/jl/btimminterview.htm) I found it interesting that he said:



So Kyle could still be out there... somewhere.

I've got an idea, they could say that Abin was the Lantern for this sector of the galaxy, when the Guardians offered Stewart the ring. Since Abin was already working in this sector they sent Stewart off to another sector to train (or something). Then with Abin's death and Kyle inheriting his ring the Guardians decided to "transfer" Stewart to this sector and had Kyle go off into deep space to train (or something).


Any other theories?

I like your idea, Mr. Obsession...it really explains why Kyle isn't in the JLA.

[The Guard]

Ok...everyone start tossing out ideas. We have to write this thing...or we'll never see Kyle again...

[Karkull]

Originally posted by The Guard
Ok...everyone start tossing out ideas. We have to write this thing...or we'll never see Kyle again...

I'm working on it.

Does the creative team even accept scripts from someone on the "outside" (not from their creative team)? And if they do, what's their mailing address?

[The Green Hornet]

Hmm-- fans know that the Guardians have a very bureaucratic system-- what if the GL sectors are like congressional districts

If John was originally the GL for what was then our sector perhaps redistricting moved him more out into space away from earth and moved abin into a new sector as well-- one including earth

when kyle took over the guardians decided that it would be best to send him off to training or perhaps every certain number of years the Guardians re-draw districts up and he got sent off to a different sector right after becoming a GL-- the same thing could have happened to Stewart-- when he became a GL it was right around redistricting time and so his district got moved to a less hostile area of space perhaps (basically where Kyle is now)

just my thoughts

[MattL.]

I *did* toss out an idea and it was quickly dismissed without even consideration because I offended H.E.A.T members or something

[MrGiantRobot]

I think they should throw Hal in there, as well. Have him hanging out somewhere way out there in space, and just have a brief glimpse of him, just to make the fanboys have a heart attack and scream about continuity. We can't ever expect animation, comics, and movies to follow each other. The whole point of making something new is not to copy what's already been dictated, but to provide some alternative ideas and something fresh. I personally don't care if Parallax ever comes about. He was a crappy character designed along with the Batman getting his back broken and Superman dying drama that was designed to get people interested in comics again. So, I say, throw Hal in there and Kyle and all of em, and do whatever you want with them. Have Hal be hanging out with Adam Strange off on some distant planet. Have Kyle be jamming it out with Mr. Miracle. I'd like to see something fresh.

[Samhaine]

When I hear "Rogue GL", I think, oh, I dunno, Sinestro??? They've already done something with a GL that went rogue.

Also, Parallax was just a bad idea. Making Hal Jordan a bad guy was probably worse than Lex Luthor NOT be the one to kill Superman (cuz hey, if anyone's gonna do it, it's gonna be his worst enemy, not some yutz that just likes to hit things). That's why they finally killed him off, then brought him back as The Spectre (another brilliant idea, but at least he's around and not a bad guy).


On a lighter note, I really liked Karkull's idea. In fact, that's what I had assumed (as did alot of people here, when Jon was first announced). The distance training, with the way the Corps has been presented so far, seems to be a logical explanation. I mean, we can have more than one GL on the planet without one of them being a bad guy. Back in the early 90s, we had what, 3 ongoing GL monthlies, plus another GL or two in the Justice League. (For the record, those members were Hal, Guy Gardener, and Jon Stewart with the monthlies, Kilowag and G'Nort (along with Guy and Hal) were in the League).

[MattL.]

Sinestro is a straight up villan.

I clearly stated in my post that Kyle would not be a villan, but a dangerous unchecked vigilante type. Teetering on the brink not realizing that so very little no seperates him from a guy like Sinestro.

Jeez, sorry I ever suggested anything.

[Maxie Zeus]

Okay, everyone calm down. We're just shooting out ideas here, not trying to cure cancer.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by MattL.
I clearly stated in my post that Kyle would not be a villan, but a dangerous unchecked vigilante type. Teetering on the brink not realizing that so very little no seperates him from a guy like Sinestro.

Jeez, sorry I ever suggested anything.

Please don't take it so hard. I just can't see Kyle's character turning into that kind of character. You can, however, because the background for the episode you're proposing is different from mine. None of it is really wrong, it's just differing opinion.

[Light Speed]

I guess all of us have the same Idea. I'm thinking that the story to bring Kyle back goes like this. It is a three part episode called "Beware my Power, Green Lantern's Light" Part starts off with an Epilogue where Sinestro is broken out of some high security prison by Fatality. Both want to destroy a Green Lantern from Earth but they don't realize that it is two different Green Lanterns. This then goes to the title sequence where we come back to the show and it is 20 years earlier. Sinestro, Abin Sur, and newly apointed John Stewart are training on OA. This episode deals with Sinestro going evil. Part two takes place 18 years later and this is Sinestro setting John up by sending a distress call to a planet on the far end of Sector 2814 where he is needed. John, the ever observent GL goes and is caught up in a planet wide civil war. He tries to stop the war and this causes the planet, where Fatality happens to be born on and on her way back to help her family escape, blow up. Mean while Abin, who's ring is almost drained from a large battle with Sinestro, borrows a ship and is on an escape route towards Earth where his ship is struck down and lands near Metroplis. Now we show the ring finding Kyle at the Daily Planet and end Part two. Part three picks up in our present time, two years after Kyle stopped Sinestor. Kyle is recaping to John on the Watchtower about his run-in with Sinestro and he and Superman stopped him. The reason he is there is because the Gaurdians called on him after learning that his and John's life may be in danger. The ending is the two of them stopping Sinestro and Fatality with a big Ring battle and Kyle creats a lot more then the standard dull bubble and wall that John makes. He also proves to John that he is a good choice for Green Lantern and that Abin's last wish was not waisted. This also sets up Kyle's return to the show and alows us that liked the Kyle episode of Superman to be real happy.

Let me know what everyone thinks and Mr. Timm if you like the story idea, all I want is an autograph on offical Letter head.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by The Guard


Also, do we actually know that the animated Abin Sur is the lantern for sector 2814?

I know that the Guardians referred to his sector as 2814 in "In Brightest Day." I'm not sure if it was identified again in "In Blackest Night."

Toddman

[BeastBoyWonder]

That seems like a good story, but at the end we want to keep John Stewart as the Green Lantern, he just learns the power of imagination.