I"s manga censored

[Pepperidge]

It's been more or less confirmed in this (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=928901&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=) thread at the AoD boards that Viz's upcoming release of the I"s graphic novel will be censored. I think jarhead said it best:


Thank you Viz for keeping the T+ demographic safe from the horrors of nipples.

[FlyByNite77]

LAME! If you're going to put readers through such a long drawn-out manga with such an indecisive male lead you gotta leave the nipples man!

That's the only thing that got me through it... :evil:

[Yash]

Isn't that in the Shonen Jump Advanced line?

So, aim for an older audience but still censor crap anyway? *sigh*

[livingfruitvirus]

First CMX, now this.

[Beat]

Well, you know what to do.

Not buy them, and tell anyone interested not to either. Shame.

[MrBananagrabber]

I don't know anything about this series other than a plot synopsis, but it's an odd choice. They leave nipples alone in the Dragonball manga (or so I've heard), Ranma, etc for years now, but this title edits them? I don't see the point of doing edits like that.

[Sandoz]

Hmmm. Viz left Masakazu Katsura's Video Girl Ai untouched as far as the nudity went, and that wasn't even part of an "advanced" line. This trend is starting to get depressing.

[Karl Olson]

How on earth can companies be so utterly deaf to their audience? Seriously, the people who buy manga want it uncut. Noone will pay for an edited product, especially in a niche market. It's sad that Del-Rey learned their lesson much faster than companies that have worked with comics for years.

[silverwings]

That's...odd. they are left in tact in all the other Viz works I've gotten (Hot Gimmick and Alice 19th come to mind).

It's just seems ironic. Or something..

[Karl Olson]

That's...odd. they are left in tact in all the other Viz works I've gotten (Hot Gimmick and Alice 19th come to mind).

It's just seems ironic. Or something..

Ah but, Hot Gimmick and Alice 19th are shoujo titles and are therefore likely handled by a different side of Viz.

[silverwings]

Ah but, Hot Gimmick and Alice 19th are shoujo titles and are therefore likely handled by a different side of Viz.
Oh, I's isn't Shoujo? Sure seemed like it from the description I read..

[Fresh V]

Ah but, Hot Gimmick and Alice 19th are shoujo titles and are therefore likely handled by a different side of Viz.
Ah, but Dragon Ball is shonen, isn't it?

[Kouji Tamino]

Viz really confuses me. On one hand, they have great translations like Kenshin and a lot their titles remain unedited like Sensual Phrase. On the other hand, they change a lot of technique names like in Naruto and pull stuff like this. I guess it all depends on who handles it, I guess.

[Karl Olson]

Viz really confuses me. On one hand, they have great translations like Kenshin and a lot their titles remain unedited like Sensual Phrase. On the other hand, they change a lot of technique names like in Naruto and pull stuff like this. I guess it all depends on who handles it, I guess.

Yeah, I think it's down to the given division and the licencing contract associated with that given manga.


Ah, but Dragon Ball is shonen, isn't it?

As is Midori's Days, which from what I've heard is gonna be intact. I think it's an issue of certain titles going threw shonen jump division. None of the other division seem to be affected, and even the shonen jump stuff isn't regularly wrecked up, which suggests different licencing rules on certain of those titles. Now that I think about it, there might also be some issue of certain translators/typesetters buckling under pressures and others not. However, this is clearly a problem limited to Viz's Shonen Jump line. Everything else has been left alone, and they are willing to wrap and sticker if need be to get a title on the shelf (Saikano.) It's very idiosyncratic.

[silvanoir]

It amazes me people get worked up over a little nudity being censored. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, since from what it sounds like it's only a tiny bit of editing, not like the whole panel is erased. Unless the manga (this one I know nothing about) dealing with mature issues is pivotal to the plot ... then I can see maybe being upset. But I don't see why you'd boycott the title if it's something you were planning to read over something so small.

Things like flipping the pages, changing names, and bad translations are more what I'd be concerned about. Spelling errors as well ... though it seems to be more rare these days, I remember a few things I picked up years ago that had missing letters and misspelled words, and that's just sad coming from a publishing company.

[MrBananagrabber]

It amazes me people get worked up over a little nudity being censored. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, since from what it sounds like it's only a tiny bit of editing, not like the whole panel is erased. Unless the manga (this one I know nothing about) dealing with mature issues is pivotal to the plot ... then I can see maybe being upset. But I don't see why you'd boycott the title if it's something you were planning to read over something so small.

Things like flipping the pages, changing names, and bad translations are more what I'd be concerned about. Spelling errors as well ... though it seems to be more rare these days, I remember a few things I picked up years ago that had missing letters and misspelled words, and that's just sad coming from a publishing company.
That argument depends on the defintion of things that are considered important. For you, that might not be the nipples, but it could be for other people. Even if that wasn't the case, I don't believe in any sort of censorship, even if it's something small. It sets a bad precedent. Even though I have no interest in this title and probably wouldn't buy it if it were unedited, if nobody makes it clear that editing is wrong, a title that I like might be edited. In a less selfish manner, it's not fair to the people who want to read and see it as it originally was.

[Fresh V]

As is Midori's Days, which from what I've heard is gonna be intact. I think it's an issue of certain titles going threw shonen jump division. None of the other division seem to be affected, and even the shonen jump isn't regularly wrecked up, which suggests different licencing rules on certain of those titles. Now that I think about it, there might also be some issue of certain translators/typesetters buckling under pressures and others not. However, this is clearly a problem limited to Viz's Shonen Jump line. Everything else has been left alone, and they are willing to wrap and sticker if need be to get a title on the shelf (Saikano.) It's very idiosyncratic. But Dragonball is a Shonen Jump manga, too, but it's not in the magazine. That's the same with I"s. So why is I"s edited and not Dragon Ball?

[Senbei Norimaki]

The Dragonball manga is censored. Look at Popo's missing lips.

[Fresh V]

The Dragonball manga is censored. Look at Popo's missing lips.
No, that is Dragonball Z(which is edited). I'm talking about Dragonball(if you still don't get it, the stuff before Raditz arrives).

[Senbei Norimaki]

His lips are missing in the Piccolo saga too. I fliped thru pages of a DB manga at Borders to check. They also censor characters flipping the bird.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Dragonball is older. Somewhere along the lines Viz decided to censor the Shonen Jump manga's but they did it after most of Dragonball was done.

[G1Ravage]

Dragonball is older. Somewhere along the lines Viz decided to censor the Shonen Jump manga's but they did it after most of Dragonball was done.
WTF??

I mean, the Dragon Ball mangas I have feature Bulma naked and Lunch flipping people off. Why the hell would they start censoring things, AFTER the inititial controversy of their originally editing the manga, and the fan backlash that prompted the large "13+" ratings on the covers?

[Karl Olson]

But Dragonball is a Shonen Jump manga, too, but it's not in the magazine. That's the same with I"s. So why is I"s edited and not Dragon Ball?


even the shonen jump stuff isn't regularly wrecked up, which suggests different licencing rules on certain of those titles. Now that I think about it, there might also be some issue of certain translators/typesetters buckling under pressures and others not. However, this is clearly a problem limited to Viz's Shonen Jump line. Everything else has been left alone, and they are willing to wrap and sticker if need be to get a title on the shelf (Saikano.) It's very idiosyncratic.

Like I said previously, between different licences and different translators, there isn't much rhyme and reason. The only commonality is that Shonen Jump is the only division with this problem at all, possibly suggesting certain licencing and translation issues within that division only. It's the easiest explanation of a lack consistantcy limited to one imprint, not the whole company.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Some SJ titles turn out well while others don't... Clearly the staff for each title has a different goal in mind for the mangas.

I think DB got uncut because it was never BIG like DBZ was. Somehow Kenshin has got off scott free as well.

Why something like I''s would be censored is beyond me. There's no franchise for it to latch to in the US. Just an OVA I believe. So why censor it of all things?

It's almost a guarentee that they'll retool the language in Eye Shield.

However as for SJ being the only manga line with this problem... Lets see if Zatch Bell isn't edited more than it's title.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

It amazes me people get worked up over a little nudity being censored. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, since from what it sounds like it's only a tiny bit of editing, not like the whole panel is erased. Unless the manga (this one I know nothing about) dealing with mature issues is pivotal to the plot ... then I can see maybe being upset. But I don't see why you'd boycott the title if it's something you were planning to read over something so small.

Things like flipping the pages, changing names, and bad translations are more what I'd be concerned about. Spelling errors as well ... though it seems to be more rare these days, I remember a few things I picked up years ago that had missing letters and misspelled words, and that's just sad coming from a publishing company.
Lets quote Ol Dirty Bastard here guys.

How does ODB like it?

He likes it....

[PowerZord]

Nipples? I thought it was something bigger. Flipping the bird? They edited on the anime the flipping part on the cell games. when the reporter Flips the bird to cell. lol.

[Umino]

VIZ sucks. Simple as that. :sad:

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

O_o

I flipped through the French translation of "I's" and it's uncensored. The French translation othe DB manga is also uncensored. You can see Bulma clearly flip the bird and you can clearly see her chest. You can also see Sangoku's privates.

Nephrite says "s***", which is "merde" in French (could also mean "damn").

The French translation of Battle Royale has some volumes covered in plastic.

[AstroNerdBoy]

In today's tighter manga (and anime) market, I'm sure Viz is looking to be more mainstream and thus increase their sales. Since U.S. culture has a majority who would not want their kids seeing nudity in comic form, it is best to edit those images (unlike Japanese culture where this isn't seen in a negative light).

Personally, I could do without the nudity in anime and manga. However, I'm totally opposed to any kind of editing like this. It is wrong IMO.

I'm sure Viz is hoping that the negative outcry from their actions don't carry over to the teen audience they want to target. But today's teens are more savy and can easily discover what is going on via the web. Personally, I think Viz's strategy will fail but I don't expect them to change their ways.

[Pepperidge]

Like I said previously, between different licences and different translators, there isn't much rhyme and reason. The only commonality is that Shonen Jump is the only division with this problem at all, possibly suggesting certain licencing and translation issues within that division only. It's the easiest explanation of a lack consistantcy limited to one imprint, not the whole company.
According to this thread (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=932147&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1), Descendants of Darkness volume 4, under the shoujo line, was also censored.

[Karl Olson]

According to this thread (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=932147&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1), Descendants of Darkness volume 4, under the shoujo line, was also censored.

Crap, it's leaking into their other divisions. I've got a bad feeling this is therefore do to pressure on the part of the biggest buyers: massive chain bookstores. I can see B&N or Border's/Walden pressuring companies to tone it down in a very misguided effort to move more volumes, not realizing that people buy it because it's raw. Just as no pays for an abridged novel, noone will pay for an abridged manga.

I'd like to be all "I ain't gonna support VIZ!" but at the moment they've not greviously messed up any of the titles I'm reading from them. Ok, they nixed the smoking in Hikaru no Go, but it's an inexpensive title, so I can live with that, and they've immaculately handled Saikano from what I can tell (I suppose more VIZ titles could use with the shelter of being an Editor's Choice.)

[Pepperidge]

Of course, there was the whole DVD player issue in Maison Ikkoku, which was Editor's Choice. Only time I've ever resorted to using white out in a comic.

[Bunai]

never heard of this manga. so i can't say much for it
but VIZ is getting a little...noticable with their edits.
to be honest, i am surprised. i thought they were a mature
company that knows how to seperate content. now they are
relying on 'mainstream' efforts...even if it means slapping fans
in the face.
people are responsible for what they buy.

TokyoPop has a clear line of T(teen) and M(mature) and there is nudity
-mostly just breast...i mean i have those. and sexual situations.
is VIZ really gonna let TPop pass them? wow.

you'd think TPop would have gotten DoD (Yami no Matsuei) since it would appeal to their shounen-ai 'n yaoi fanbase. even some of the staff on Pop
like it.

VIZ is really really not making themselves look good.
hopefully they will not do this with Junko Mizunos works...
maybe she can someone else to publish her works.
colorful takes on nudity and violence is pretty much her tradmark.

i have "flowers n Bees"
which is just hilarious. and as far as i can tell, everything
is untouched. even the dio gets a little ranchy.


and Mature doesn't mean "Adult". its basically, if you can take
a contents of the book without making a big deal out of it.
i read a comic by Jim Balent "Tarot". and he says his comic gets
called mostly on the WitchCraft as a Religion in the comic...
not the nudity...:confused: in a sense its amusing.

even his side project "3Kittens" was aimed at Teens and Kids!
though the outfits are tight the breast are large and there
is a little flesh tossed in here n there...its actually pretty tasteful
and funny. really :D

hmm
i'm not one to do this, unless i really like the book (almost got all the
originals of Chobits, just for the heck that i like the series. got all TPop
translation too :heart:) I may have to hope for a Bilingual DoD manga...
i hope they still do that kind of thing.
never even really got to know about the series. but i did see one ep
of the anime.

[Karl Olson]

Of course, there was the whole DVD player issue in Maison Ikkoku, which was Editor's Choice. Only time I've ever resorted to using white out in a comic.

That sounds like dumb translation rather than blantant pasteurization of content. OTOH, maybe VIZ is just taking it from all sides - poor translation, bookstore content pressure, poor market research - in which case, they've got a hell of an uphill battle because the other manga distributors don't seem interested in letting up, especially Del Rey which has been very fan responsive so far. Tokyopop isn't far behind when it comes to rolling with the punches and learning from their screw ups either, so VIZ just can't rest on laurels here. They'll eaten alive if they do.

[Pepperidge]

But keep in mind that the Editor's Choice version was a 2nd Edition. They had to actually go back and make that change. What makes it even more frustrating was that they would do something like that, but keep the old translation of "Ronin" as "Mr. Flunkout".

[Karl Olson]

But keep in mind that the Editor's Choice version was a 2nd Edition. They had to actually go back and make that change. What makes it even more frustrating was that they would do something like that, but keep the old translation of "Ronin" as "Mr. Flunkout".

They need to fire some of their editors/localizers/translators then. They then have to have the remaining good editors/localizers/translators screen and train a bunch of new hires.

[Nobody You Know]

Eh. I've long since given up on Viz. Not that I think they "suck", but they really leave something to be desired. Like a consistent policy- on editing, on translation, on ANYTHING.

This has been the case for OVER TEN YEARS, the only thing that's changed is that they're now editing nudity (more than they were, anyway- Ranma 1/2 had nudity comming out of its ears, so much that If anything was edited, I doubt I noticed at the time), in addition to making bewildering name changes and questionable translation choices.

There are solutions (wrapping the books would solve most of their problems on the questionable content end, DEEP-SIXING most of their translation staff would probably fix the rest of it...), but they would likely cost Viz those precious chain bookstore sales. I know that all the Border's in this area have huge manga sections. In my mind, wouldn't hurt anything, but it might seem like too much of a risk to Viz.

I'd like to be able to say that I can't blame them, but I can...

[Zechs]

I'm thinking that Viz is trying to cover their butts. Form what I've seen of I's it can getfairly racy.Being that they also carry manga for a younger audience censoring may well be a good idea. All we need is some parent picking up the wrong manga next you know they'll be trying to paint all manga the same and get it banned. Besides if you don't like do what other manga fans do don't buy it and only buy uncut Japense manga.


There are solutions (wrapping the books would solve most of their problems on the questionable content end, DEEP-SIXING most of their translation staff would probably fix the rest of it...), but they would likely cost Viz those precious chain bookstore sales. I know that all the Border's in this area have huge manga sections. In my mind, wouldn't hurt anything, but it might seem like too much of a risk to Viz.I work at a book store and some mature manga do come wrapped up and with warnings about the content, but the kids just take off the warpper and read. So if Viz is really worried about what parents and others think then it's best to take out or cover up what ever might offend them. Sure it sucks but it's better than nothing.

[Karl Olson]

I work at a book store and some mature manga do come wrapped up and with warnings about the content, but the kids just take off the warpper and read. So if Viz is really worried about what parents and others think then it's best to take out or cover up what ever might offend them. Sure it sucks but it's better than nothing.

Or you could put it behind the counter. I doubt kids are taking the wrappers off any adult magazines your bookstore sells end up getting torn up and read by children. It also keep parents from picking up the wrong manga. Plenty of stores with manga sections already split by shoujo/shonen, so why not split by age rating instead. That way, all the older teen and mature stuff can be marked and separated from the all ages/teen stuff.

Meanwhile, if wrapping and stickering were a such a hassle for VIZ, they wouldn't have wrapped and stickered Saikano, and Saikano has been in every last B&N, Borders and Waldenbooks I've set foot in since it's release. It's also moved volumes as well. Clearly, even if wrapping isn't truly effective, it's enough to get your foot in the door, and beyond that it is up to people to buy it. Yes, it means there is an additional per unit cost rather than editing which is spread over the cost of all future printings, but I don't think anyone would flinch at an extra buck a volume (and it does not cost that to shrinkwrap the manga,) if it means it's uncut and unedited. Besides, if they edit stuff, a lot of the current manga fanbase is savy enough to find a script online and then buy the Japanese volumes either online, at Kinokuniya or even at their local Borders these days; they lose sales with out fail.

Personally, I don't think it's better than nothing because when it's seriously edited and still full list price, I don't buy it, so it's effectively nothing to me anyway, and that goes for a lot of manga readers.

[Sandoz]

I'm thinking that Viz is trying to cover their butts. Form what I've seen of I's it can getfairly racy.Being that they also carry manga for a younger audience censoring may well be a good idea. All we need is some parent picking up the wrong manga next you know they'll be trying to paint all manga the same and get it banned. Besides if you don't like do what other manga fans do don't buy it and only buy uncut Japense manga. Then why did Viz even buy the rights to I's? It would be one thing if a more or less all-ages title suddenly had a nude scene that didn't really fit its rating, but from what I've heard the racy content is integral to the plot. Viz had to have known what it was getting into.

And it isn't practical to say to fans, "Just buy the uncut Japanese manga". I, for one, don't know Japanese, don't care to learn Japanese, and don't particularly want to flip through printed translations while fumbling with a book at the same time.


I work at a book store and some mature manga do come wrapped up and with warnings about the content, but the kids just take off the warpper and read. So if Viz is really worried about what parents and others think then it's best to take out or cover up what ever might offend them. Sure it sucks but it's better than nothing. Then there needs to be a stricter policy regarding adult, shrink-wrapped manga in bookstores. My local Walden Books keeps the adult manga and anime in its own section by the cash register, near the adult magazines. That does a pretty good job of keeping the kids away.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Who cares if you don't get see naked comic characters, there not real.

[Artimus Gigan]

Who cares if you don't get see naked comic characters, there not real.Neither are the boobs on the models in the porn magazines, but that doesn't stop people from looking.

As long as they are shaped relatively normal people will look...

[Evil Dr. Reef]

Who cares if you don't get see naked comic characters, there not real. When Masakazu Katsura drew it, he drew in breasts. If he didn't want them in his book, he wouldn't have drawn them in the first place. It's as simple as that.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Who cares if you don't get see naked comic characters, there not real.
What? Are you afraid of them?

[PowerZord]

Who cares if you don't get see naked comic characters, there not real.

Good point:p

[Catlover]

ICv2 News (http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/6656.html)has posted a reply from a Viz spokesperson:


"Any (very minimal) edits done to any manga title are to fit the criteria of audiences in the U.S., and we follow and respect the wishes of the creator to the letter, as we did in this instance. There are never, at any time, any edits done without the creator's full knowledge and approval."

The spokesperson also noted that in volume 3 of the Japanese version of the series, the creator used stars over the woman's breasts.
I was planing on buying this one, but I refuse to buy edited manga. No matter how much I don't care about the edit.

Ah well, just one less manga to juggle into my budget.

[Yash]

Good point:p Like someone already said, same with porn mags. They're not real, so if they started censoring nudity, then who cares? It's not real.

Countered with your own logic. How does that make you feel?

[William C. Maune]

ICv2 News (http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/6656.html)has posted a reply from a Viz spokesperson:

That article also notes:

"The spokesperson also noted that in volume 3 of the Japanese version of the series, the creator used stars over the woman's breasts."

[Catlover]

That article also notes:

"The spokesperson also noted that in volume 3 of the Japanese version of the series, the creator used stars over the woman's breasts."
I had put that and a little more commentary in my post, but somehow it was erased. I will edit my post. Sorry.

[lostrune]

Eh, I''s is just a poor man's copy of Video Girl Ai. :evil:

[Dr Crocodile]

That article also notes:

"The spokesperson also noted that in volume 3 of the Japanese version of the series, the creator used stars over the woman's breasts."

That incident was an injoke in the Manga itself. Anyway I don't care about this manga but Viz really has no justification for this. The stars look obnoxious, it's not like Viz could be sued for nipples, plenty of other Viz titles have nipples and the removal of nipples doesn't make the manga any less sexual charged or suitable for younger people (who aren't even the target of this manga). There's plenty of younger teen and tween manga. Liscence that if you've got a problem with nipples Viz (which you don't considereing past work).

[Jon Hanson]

If anyone here is really so starved for nipples a simple google search could solve your problem.

[Kouji Tamino]

If anyone here is really so starved for nipples a simple google search could solve your problem.
It's the principle of it, though. What if someone censored your work? How would you feel, then? The fact that they're censoring anything is what's getting people worked up. It's not the nipples, it's wanting to preserve the art in it's original form.

[Waylaid]

Care to digress a bit and tell us why bare nipples have to be censored for the bigger audience in every visual media in America, be it in comics, movies, TV & so on? I know, certain measures are taken to reap more profits from the people buying them, but why why bare nipples at all?

Meanwhile, I've went thru the original versions of I''s and I doubt there are nipples in them. Heck, I doubt every Masakazu Katsura post-Video Girl Ai has nipples at all. I'll check again. I can declare however that his latest manga Zetman has nipples (to go along with other dark stuff like rape, brains blown off & so on), but they're quite few, and a reader needs to squint his/er eyes a bit if they find even one.

[Jon Hanson]

It's the principle of it, though. What if someone censored your work? How would you feel, then? The fact that they're censoring anything is what's getting people worked up. It's not the nipples, it's wanting to preserve the art in it's original form. If it was just a minor visual edit like the removal of a few nipples I'd be fine as long as the story is untouched so it could reach a larger audience. I'd be more embarresed by the fact that my fans would refuse to buy my work over a minor cut back in the T and A department. I'm just saying everybody's nipple crazy one way or another, last year it was the appearance of a single nipple and now it's the dissapearance of a few nipples. When did they get to be this important?

[Dr Crocodile]

If it was just a minor visual edit like the removal of a few nipples I'd be fine as long as the story is untouched so it could reach a larger audience. I'd be more embarresed by the fact that my fans would refuse to buy my work over a minor cut back in the T and A department. I'm just saying everybody's nipple crazy one way or another, last year it was the appearance of a single nipple and now it's the dissapearance of a few nipples. When did they get to be this important?

You obviously have no familiarity with the manga in question. Even with nipples gone it isn't something you'd want a kid to read. Plus this "reach a larger audience" thing doesn't work because you're trying to shoe it in to an audience the book wasn't made for while pissing off the audience it was made for. Would you sell censored Playboy to kids/tweens? No, the magazine was made for adults/late teens. It's not like removing blood from a kids anime to it can show on TV for kids (like YuYu which STILL has uncensored DVDs easily avaliable). This is taking a manga for teens + above and trying to sell it to tweens. Nobody is really arguing about the nipples, rather the stupidity of this whole thing.

[Ryoutarou]

This manga really wasn't even made for teens either, was it? O_o From what I know it was aimed at college aged kids around 18-21, wasn't it? Something like that really shouldn't being going to a "wider audience" but to the correct audience should it not? The thought of paying for edited manga is just plain stupid, I don't really feel like giving my money for something like this...Where in a manga such as I''s this type of thing does occur quite a bit.

[Pepperidge]

Nope, the series is aimed at teens. Unlike with TenTen, where it was being targeted at the wrong audience, the argument with I"s is that nipples don't need to be censored for a T+ audience. It's kind of insulting.

[Senbei Norimaki]

How about the censorship in the City Hunter manga? In that case it was the original artist censoring his own work for American audiences.:shrug: