WITCH's disaster ratings, Winx Club still going strong!

[mg_winxclub]

W.I.T.C.H. continues to be a disaster in the ratings in the USA, which is the first country where the cartoon series has started. They (Disney) had been announcing thoughout the industry so much that W.I.T.C.H. would beat Winx Club flat out, yet it's the other way around with Winx Club on top beating W.I.T.C.H. out in all categories and demographics!

Here's just one example from a source available to everyone: just look at the ratings numbers from CYNTHIA TURNER'S Cynopsis: Kids! for 3/11/05: Winx Club rated 1.7 and W.I.T.C.H. rated 0.4. So where's this "ratings blow-out" Disney was claiming would happen?

[MahouShoujo13]

Well...there goes my chances of seeing W*I*T*C*H.

But then again, who else would bring about these news? Obviously the one posting is a WinX Club fan. Besides, this could be old.

[Lonestarr]

As a devoted fan of "W.I.T.C.H.", this is beyond unfair. Don't let this news dissuade you; the show is excellent.

[Monkey12]

Maybe, it's because W.I.T.C.H is on an awkard time.

[Dark Fact]

This is beyond sad. :( W.I.T.C.H. is the one show on ABC Kids I really like.

ABC may end up cancelling the series before it gets to the halfway point in the first season. :(

Again, I am very saddened by the news.

[Freedom Fighter]

First off, I'm a fan of both shows, so I'm not bias either way.

Second... if Winx is being compared to ABC Kids' airing, that's completely unfair then, because a good number of ABC affiliates (including many in major markets, including mine) do not air the non-E/I hour period... no one-week delay or anything. And yes, you can make a case that some Fox affiliates don't carry 4KidsTV, but that's not fair either, 'cause as far as I know, all those that do carry the entire block. (Plus, with 'Winx' as an E/I show, it has to be aired.)

If it's being compared to WITCH's ABC Family time slot, though, then I'm worried. And shocked. The first few weeks of the show scored really well by ABC Family's standards... it was the channel's #1 rated show in Kids' 6-11 (which I'm guessing is the demographic you're using in your comparison). Unless it was an off-week (and a seriously hiccupped off-week), it's no cause for concern about the show's well-being. At least not yet.

Thirdly... Winx airs on a broadcast network. WITCH (if we're referring to ABCFam) airs on a cable network. 4KidsTV averages 2-3 times better ratings than ABC Family. Between the 9 networks (broadcast and cable) that air Saturday morning kids' programming competitively, 4KidsTV usually finishes anywhere between 4th and 7th. ABC Family has finished dead last in every known ratings report posted here at TZ this season. More people watch 4KidsTV than ABC Family, so proportionately, more people should be watching Winx than WITCH. If there weren't, Winx would've been gone a long time ago.

Fourth... it should be worthy to note that both shows have succeeded in bringing not only girls to their respective networks, but also total kid viewers as a whole. Both shows have exceeded what was expected of them, and both now sit at or near the top of their respective blocks. (By my guesstimation, Winx would be 4KidsTV's 3rd-highest rated show this season, WITCH is tops on ABC Family.)

Fifth and finally... both shows have their merits. For me, Winx draws me in with their character designs and how evil the villains are. WITCH has better writing and a slightly more interesting secondary cast. They amuse me in different ways, they grab my attention in different ways. When it's all said and done, the only determining factor in whether you watch a show or not is if the show can hold your attention for half an hour every week.

Besides, how many kids in the target demographic actually get to see their favorite show's ratings, much less know what ratings are? Their only measure of how popular a show is by how much merchandise of a show they see, how often they see other kids conversing about it. And even then, many kids (and people in general) will still watch a show, even if they don't know anyone personally who does, as long as it keeps them entertained.

Oh, and one more thing (yeah, I know I'm ranting, but bare with me). I'm the one who ran the 'Winx Club' talkbacks here back when they premiered last year. I kept diligent track of the 6-11 demo ratings... Winx averaged about a 0.8 over the summer (Episodes 1-13), and for at least the first month (Ep 14-17), it slowly edged up to a 1.0 average. It wasn't until the final third of the season (starting around Ep 18) that Winx's ratings started to go up significantly. If you roughly count about the last five months alone, that average has jumped to about 1.3 or 1.4, by my estimation, and during that span, the show's high (about a month ago or so, in repeats no less) is a 1.9.

The reason I bring that up is... look how long it took Winx to get from middle-of-the-pack to top-of-the-heap! Plus, like mentioned above, with WITCH already on top at ABC Family (and a 2nd season already in production), the show should be given time to grow. So WITCH fans need not worry... yes, the show may be gone from ABC's broadcast network, but the show in general is still alive and well on ABC Family, and there are no signs that the show is on the chopping block.

[Dark Fact]

The reason I bring that up is... look how long it took Winx to get from middle-of-the-pack to top-of-the-heap! Plus, like mentioned above, with WITCH already on top at ABC Family (and a 2nd season already in production), the show should be given time to grow. So WITCH fans need not worry... yes, the show may be gone from ABC's broadcast network, but the show in general is still alive and well on ABC Family, and there are no signs that the show is on the chopping block.

You have nothing to worry about since you have ABC family, I don't. If W.I.T.C.H. disappears from ABC Kids, I'll be saddened. :(

[creativerealms]

Thats what happens when two shows are alike and one is released second, even if that second show did exist first. I like both but WITCH is the superior show. This is sad.

[Czar Gato]

WITCH just started a month or two ago, right? Give it time; few shows are successful right off the bat.

[Gokou Ruri]

If the ratings were really horrible, I don't see why they would already confirm and develop a second season. Obviously they feel W.I.T.C.H will still be popular enough to warrent a second season, as the case is usually a show being put on hiatus until they can figure it all out.:shrug: But I guess since I have ABC Family, I don't have to worry much.

[Fan of Sponge]

W.I.T.C.H. is somewhat a little darker than Winx in my opinion. Not only that but the characters on Winx is better, the animation, and the enjoyment have more of an understanding for children than W.I.T.C.H. which attracted towards children ages 7-13. Winx has already been out for almost a couple of months now and is going through its second go-around on 4Kids TV. Meanwhile W.I.T.C.H. started in Janurary and the ratings haven't really picked up on ABC Kids. Well at least it gets better ratings than Dave which probably won't get a second season. Plus the show is on 3 networks and this only accounts for ABC Kids. I mean where's the other ratings for the airings on ABC Family and Toon Disney?

[Freedom Fighter]

You have nothing to worry about since you have ABC family, I don't. If W.I.T.C.H. disappears from ABC Kids, I'll be saddened. :(As I mentioned, and has been several times by numerous people including myself at the Disney Forum, W.I.T.C.H. was really given a short leash on ABC Kids, and coupled with the fact it's not an E/I show hurt it even worse.

It's a shame, really, but with ABC being one of the Big Three who only has Saturday AM kids' programming because of the FCC's 3-hour E/I requirement, and many affiliates unwilling to air anything kid-related that doesn't meet that requirement... W.I.T.C.H. gets an unfair shaft. As someone mentioned, it's in a bad time slot to boot... are there still people watching at 12 Noon?

W.I.T.C.H. is one of the best written animated series on the air right now. It's too bad it seems ABC Kids is pulling it... but coupled between ABC's affiliate programming practices, and the fact that kids either already keep up with the show on ABC Family or just plain don't watch it at all... there's not much we can really do, is there?

It's always sad when a great show in execution doesn't find an audience. It's even sadder when terrible, generic shows do... but that's another debate.

[Kagetsu]

As a somewhat impartial observer since neither show is a favorite of mine but I've watched both. I prefer both the animation and the character design and personalities of W*I*T*C*H. But I'm outside the target audience for either.

[ktoriyama]

What is this E/I I hear about.

And to be honest, I have been listening to this WITCH and WINX things going on, and I will say this, WITCH will work very hard to be WINX.

I don't know who was the original, and who copied who, but regardless WINX was out first, established itself, and even has a toy line. Loyal demographic, afairly succesful toylijne, and for a girl's show decently written, no JLU but way better than Totally Spies and Atomic Betty comibned. It's a pretty decent show though I will never admit to watching it.

WITCH on the other hand has to fight tooth and nail against a well established contender just to get a limited demographic. It would have to be written by a team of Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Craig McCrakken, and Gennedy the Clone Wars Guy, just to get an edge on WINX. Because to the 95% of the target demographic who doesn't know the complex backstory, WITCH is the copy cat. Though I will admit I have never seen an episode of this from a combination of the fact that I don't wake uo that early on Saturdays anyomore, 3 pm is the usual time, and I don't think that it is worth the hardrive spave to tape it.

[Vale]

Maybe, it's because W.I.T.C.H is on an awkard time.
Couldn't agree more. I've tried for three weeks now to watch it, but I'm always out somewhere come 12:00 Saturday. Maybe if they had more faith in the show to put it on at a decent time, things like this wouldn't happen.

[Freedom Fighter]

What is this E/I I hear about.E/I refers to shows specifically designated to be educational and informational. How they came up with giving Winx that designation befuddles me. All of the broadcast networks are required to air 3 hours of E/I programming per week. Winx has an inherent advantage in staying on the air longer because it has that designation, and that 'shield' will stay until 4Kids decides to acquire/create a new E/I show.


And to be honest, I have been listening to this WITCH and WINX things going on, and I will say this, WITCH will work very hard to be WINX.

I don't know who was the original, and who copied who, but regardless WINX was out first, established itself, and even has a toy line.The ideas behind WITCH and the first pieces of merchandise (comics/novels) came out first... but Winx was the first to come out as a TV series.

I agree with you though... two similarly-aimed shows, a half-year advantage... WITCH has the issue of trying to get out of Winx's shadow. It certainly has the writing staff behind it to do so... they've just got to convince kids to notice them.

[ktoriyama]

E/I refers to shows specifically designated to be educational and informational. How they came up with giving Winx that designation befuddles me. All of the broadcast networks are required to air 3 hours of E/I programming per week. Winx has an inherent advantage in staying on the air longer because it has that designation, and that 'shield' will stay until 4Kids decides to acquire/create a new E/I show.
If memory serves me correctly didn;t WINX have a lesson of the day sorta similar to Sailor Moon's? Is that why WINX is designated as an E/I show?

[Gokou Ruri]

I agree with you though... two similarly-aimed shows, a half-year advantage... WITCH has the issue of trying to get out of Winx's shadow. It certainly has the writing staff behind it to do so... they've just got to convince kids to notice them.
With the mastermind behind Gargoyles as the lead for season 2, it can't go anything but uphill.

[Kagetsu]

With the mastermind behind Gargoyles as the lead for season 2, it can't go anything but uphill. Uphill? Meaning it can only get better? Or "uphill battle" saddled with bad writing? I can't imagine anything connected with Gargoyles to be a good thing :p

[Burgundy Ranger]

This is beyond sad. :( W.I.T.C.H. is the one show on ABC Kids I really like.

ABC may end up cancelling the series before it gets to the halfway point in the first season. :(

Again, I am very saddened by the news.
On its press site, ABC has already returned Kim Possible to the noon slot for the entire month of April. But the entire noon-1 hour is a joke. ABC affiliates serving about 45 PERCENT of this country's TV homes don't show those shows in those time slots (because of pre-emption or tape-delaying), making for a low total viewer count and, in turn, low ratings.

For example, when WITCH and Power Rangers are supposed to be on at noon and 12:30 in the Eastern time zone, the affiliates in the following major cities aren't showing them:

Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Hartford, Cincinnati, Columbus, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Dayton.

Then, you throw in other big cites like Dallas and Seattle, and you see how there's no chance of generating any kind of big numbers.

[Peter Paltridge]

W.I.T.C.H. gets an unfair shaft. As someone mentioned, it's in a bad time slot to boot... are there still people watching at 12 Noon?If you live in the Northwest, W.I.T.C.H comes on at 5 in the morning. Competing with the Farm Report has to be hard.

[sag_2002]

Also, for those who do get to see W.i.t.c.h. on ABC, in almost all cases, the episode has already aired on ABC Family by that time. Many don't really wanna be bothered to see an episode that's already aired, unless they happen to have missed that episode at its original timeslot.

[Gokou Ruri]

I can't imagine anything connected with Gargoyles to be a good thing :p*Horrified gasp* Take it back!

[Rover_Wow]

E/I refers to shows specifically designated to be educational and informational. How they came up with giving Winx that designation befuddles me. All of the broadcast networks are required to air 3 hours of E/I programming per week. Winx has an inherent advantage in staying on the air longer because it has that designation, and that 'shield' will stay until 4Kids decides to acquire/create a new E/I show.

Not really on topic, but I hear that Stargate Infinity got E/I too. Watched a few eps, and the eps really do get preachy later on, b/c Gus (the bald guy) always teaches the people he visited a lesson relating to what they've been through. Like "You don't always have to fear strangers" etc.

[Fone Bone]

I didn't even know Witch had started airing. What are both Witch and The Winx Club about?

[Burgundy Ranger]

Also, for those who do get to see W.i.t.c.h. on ABC, in almost all cases, the episode has already aired on ABC Family by that time. Many don't really wanna be bothered to see an episode that's already aired, unless they happen to have missed that episode at its original timeslot.
Which is why ABC isn't really all that upset about the 'throwaway' approach toward that hour. An episode of either WITCH and PR will have been on at least twice somewhere else before its first scheduled showing on ABC Kids.

To be quite honest, I'm somewhat stunned ABC is still even bothering with the non-E/I hour. CBS and NBC stopped long ago.

[Wanted]

So, no one else has ratings?

Well, I'm beginning to watch Winx, so I can't speak for it. I can speak for the other show, but am not going to. I probably won't even get to see the second season...

So, might as well get acquainted with Winx, right?

[Master Moron]

So, what days are these shows on?

[Dark Fact]

Saturday, last I checked. :shrug:

[mg_winxclub]

Everyone has their opinions and favorite shows, and I totally respect that. The point I was trying to make when creating this thread is that Disney was the one who came out swinging, telling the industry that W.I.T.C.H was so much better and was going to beat out Winx Club in the ratings, when it's really not.

If Disney was so confident in W.I.T.C.H., then why not simply promote the show on it's own merits? Why did Disney feel they HAD to compare it to and talk down about another show, claiming it would be SO much better in the ratings? It's like Disney dug it's own hole before W.I.T.C.H. ever got off the ground. Whether you like or dislike Winx Club and W.I.T.C.H., the bottom line is there's no excuse for Disney to talk down about it's competition to the industry (then not have the ratings to back it up). That's unprofessional.

New ratings reports are out for March 19, 2005, and the numbers don't lie. Winx Club scored it's highest ratings ever for Girls ages 6-11! Here's the breakdown of shows and ratings for Girls ages 6-11:


Winx Club, 4Kids.tv (8:30 AM) = 2.3
Winx Club, 4Kids.tv (9:00 AM) = 2.2



8:30 AM:
Mucha Lucha, WB = 1.4
Static Shock, TOON = 1.0
Power Rangers SPD, FAM = 0.7



9:00 AM:
Teen Titans, WB = 1.1
Code Name: KND, TOON = 1.8
Super Robot MTHPG, FAM = 0.5



Other Girls ages 6-11 Demographics Competition:

Sonic X, WB, 9:30 AM = 1.3
W.I.T.C.H., FAM, 9:30 AM = 1.0
Code Name: KND, TOON, 9:30 AM = 2.3



Pokemon, WB, 10:00 AM = 1.2
Digimon, FAM, 10:00 AM = 0.4
Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, TOON, 10:00 AM = 2.1



W.I.T.C.H., ABC, 12:00 PM = 1.1

[Meson]

Note; WITCH airs at 7 AM Saturdays on ABC Kids. (in Buffalo). THat's not a very good time splot to have. So, I can see why the low ratings. Still sad though. I like it better than Winx.

[LordTerminal]

New ratings reports are out for March 19, 2005, and the numbers don't lie. Winx Club scored it's highest ratings ever for Girls ages 6-11! Here's the breakdown of shows and ratings for Girls ages 6-11:


Winx Club, 4Kids.tv (8:30 AM) = 2.3
Winx Club, 4Kids.tv (9:00 AM) = 2.2


8:30 AM:
Mucha Lucha, WB = 1.4
Static Shock, TOON = 1.0
Power Rangers SPD, FAM = 0.7


9:00 AM:
Teen Titans, WB = 1.1
Code Name: KND, TOON = 1.8
Super Robot MTHPG, FAM = 0.5


Other Girls ages 6-11 Demographics Competition:

Sonic X, WB, 9:30 AM = 1.3
W.I.T.C.H., FAM, 9:30 AM = 1.0
Code Name: KND, TOON, 9:30 AM = 2.3


Pokemon, WB, 10:00 AM = 1.2
Digimon, FAM, 10:00 AM = 0.4
Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, TOON, 10:00 AM = 2.1




W.I.T.C.H., ABC, 12:00 PM = 1.1
How is this possible? How can anyone stand to watch that show that much? At least with WITCH I was able to sit through one or two episodes just fine but here with Winx, I barely even get through the commercials without cringing.

[tucsoncoyote]

On its press site, ABC has already returned Kim Possible to the noon slot for the entire month of April. But the entire noon-1 hour is a joke. ABC affiliates serving about 45 PERCENT of this country's TV homes don't show those shows in those time slots (because of pre-emption or tape-delaying), making for a low total viewer count and, in turn, low ratings.

For example, when WITCH and Power Rangers are supposed to be on at noon and 12:30 in the Eastern time zone, the affiliates in the following major cities aren't showing them:

Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Hartford, Cincinnati, Columbus, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Dayton.

Then, you throw in other big cites like Dallas and Seattle, and you see how there's no chance of generating any kind of big numbers. I agree here SteveR, and I also Agreee with Freedom Fighter as well. You want to kill a show fast? put it in a Non-E/I Time Slot or don't give it an E/I Rating.

In fact I was just noting the numbers here and in fact W.i.t.c.h. (which is Non-E/I) has Lower ratings then even Kim Possible (which is Also Non-E/I) did a year previous!

That's sad when you have a show , and you have to backpeddle and replace a show with an older show. (Add to that those darn 'episode caps' that Diseny puts on it's shows), and you get a disaster that is Ripe in the making).

Now the only thing that could possibly save W.i.t.c.h. from being Obliterated by Winx Club (which I am just being an Outside observer here) is the fact of it's writing, and Character Dynamics. W.i.t.c.h. is a little better thought out but is Darker, Winx Club Is Brighter but has Less Character interaction, but better Dialogue. so if the Creator of Gargoyles comes along and puts his creative touch to it, well he could turn this show around in a hurry.(After all Greg Weisman is the guy who penned a lot of Seasons 1 and 2 of Gargoyles), and I have a feeling he could take W.i.t.c.h. out of the Doldrums.

but It comes back to this issue of "Programming Death slots" for ABC Kids. That''s a Key Issue they aren't listening for at the House of Mouse. add to that the pre-emption for sports and you have a definite Disaster Waitiing to come crashing down on the Programmer's head. After all if Disney was as Flexible as Fox is, they could have a better programming Schedules but sadly they've become too Blinded by the fact that they aren't paying attention to what folks want to see at particular times.. if this is the case, well let's just say that Disney is Ripe for losing even more viewers without becoming more flexible to it's schedules. and in fact when you factor it all in. it's gonna be a matter of time before W.i.t.c.h. ends up on Just ABC Family/Jetix.

As for Winx Club, They have a bright future ahead I feel. All they need to do for their show is improve the interactions between Characters (The Dynamics as it were) and they would have a great show on their hands.

But the moment they move Winx Club to a later time, well it's going to prove what I said all along.. Put a Program in the 'Death Slots' or Make it Non-E/I and you are out of luck and the magic Goes away. It's as Simple as that.

:coyote:

[Burgundy Ranger]

Note; WITCH airs at 7 AM Saturdays on ABC Kids. (in Buffalo). THat's not a very good time splot to have. So, I can see why the low ratings. Still sad though. I like it better than Winx.And, in the places where people are forced (by the local station) to watch at such an early hour, those viewers are not even counted for the weekly rating (i.e., the 0.9 WITCH got this past week).

Also, WITCH and Power Rangers are barely -- if at all -- promoted as being part of the ABC Kids lineup. But then again, I probably wouldn't know, since I live in a market (Wash DC) where the local station has never shown a single episode from the non-E/I parts of the ABC Kids lineup.

[Wanted]

Well, that's what Disney gets for switching the demographic for a channel. The tables flip on them, to where even FOX gets better ratings then they do.

And, is a 1.1 the highest W.I.T.C.H. can get? I weep.

Jetix is failing, and if this keeps up, Disney's going to have to cut it. But, maybe Toon Disney is keeping the franchise on its legs.

It's pretty sad when a block's highest rating isn't even as high as another block's lowest.

[Conan-san]

And, is a 1.1 the highest W.I.T.C.H. can get? I weep. This, incidetly, is what proves my theroy abuot how decent cartoons with runing storylines are thrown asunder by those designed for the capitilistic gain of companies.

Ergo,

This is not the best period of Animation by any length.

[Freedom Fighter]

If memory serves me correctly didn;t WINX have a lesson of the day sorta similar to Sailor Moon's? Is that why WINX is designated as an E/I show?No, but it came to me this morning that the Winx girls spend a good amount of time in school... as evidenced from last week's repeat of "Pushing the Envelope," an episode which centered around an envelope with the 'answers' to an upcoming pop quiz and whether or not to open it to pass it and the class. So I'm guessing if the characters spend a certain amount of time in school/class, then a network can give the show an E/I designation.

For comparison purposes, fellow 4Kids' gal show 'Mew Mew Power,' our aforementioned 'W.I.T.C.H.,' and it's Disney partner, 'Kim Possible,' all probably do not warrant enough in-school time to earn that designation.


But the entire noon-1 hour is a joke. ABC affiliates serving about 45 PERCENT of this country's TV homes don't show those shows in those time slots (because of pre-emption or tape-delaying), making for a low total viewer count and, in turn, low ratings.

For example, when WITCH and Power Rangers are supposed to be on at noon and 12:30 in the Eastern time zone, the affiliates in the following major cities aren't showing them:

Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Hartford, Cincinnati, Columbus, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Dayton.

Then, you throw in other big cites like Dallas and Seattle, and you see how there's no chance of generating any kind of big numbers.Just barely half the country actually sees that hour, and in its correct time slot? How can ABC Kids interrupt that many major markets and still be a solid 2nd this season in most of the major demographics among the broadcast networks? Would they be more of a challenge for Nick, CN, and Kids' WB if all of the blocks ran as intended?

Here's a weird coincidence... maybe it's educational bias? After all, almost all of the Ivy League colleges are on the East Coast... maybe the owners of the affiliates here think they need to keep that tradition alive, so they'll refuse to show any show you can't learn from. It's a strange theory, but it does seem plausible, even if it's plain silly and moronic.


So, what days are these shows on?(All Times Eastern):
- Winx Club: Saturdays at 8:30 & 9 am, 4KidsTV (Normally on a Fox affiliate).
- W.I.T.C.H.: Saturdays (and sometimes Sundays) at 9:30 am and Wednesdays at 7 am, ABC Family; Mondays and Fridays at 9 pm, Toon Disney.

Winx is currently airing Season 1 repeats. W.I.T.C.H. is currently premiering Season 1 (this week, though, will be the show's first repeat) on Saturdays... the Sunday AM airing (when it's actually on, given ABC Family's penchant for doing marathons instead of their old 'Saturday mirror' line-up most of the time) and both Toon Disney airings are encores.

Winx Season 2 has just premiered in some parts of Europe, and despite no formal announcement, it is expected to premiere here in the U.S. this summer. W.I.T.C.H. Season 2 is in production now... no premiere date has been set.


Everyone has their opinions and favorite shows, and I totally respect that. The point I was trying to make when creating this thread is that Disney was the one who came out swinging, telling the industry that W.I.T.C.H was so much better and was going to beat out Winx Club in the ratings, when it's really not.

If Disney was so confident in W.I.T.C.H., then why not simply promote the show on it's own merits? Why did Disney feel they HAD to compare it to and talk down about another show, claiming it would be SO much better in the ratings? It's like Disney dug it's own hole before W.I.T.C.H. ever got off the ground. Whether you like or dislike Winx Club and W.I.T.C.H., the bottom line is there's no excuse for Disney to talk down about it's competition to the industry (then not have the ratings to back it up). That's unprofessional.Point taken. I'm not known for jumping on people, but yeah, this is one of the few things I do get uppity about... so sorry if I offended you.

As for Disney's marketing ploy... well, it's not completely their fault. It was mostly the creators of W.I.T.C.H., firing back at the creators of Winx for not only 'copying' their premise, but also putting their own spin on it, and putting it out before they could finish theirs. Still, the saying goes... 'Two wrongs do not make a right.' If Disney and W.I.T.C.H.'s crew want their show to be the better program, let the show's merits speak for themself.

Unfortunately, we live in a mostly-capitalistic world, where ratings and merchandise are worth much more to a show's value, as opposed to great writing and animation. That also means being competitive as other similarly-themed shows, which usually means 'evil advertising' over 'good advertising.' So the fact that Disney took the approach they did was pretty much the norm. Thing is, so far that strategy hasn't worked out as well as they probably hoped.

Like I said, though, there's still plenty of air left in W.I.T.C.H.'s sail... a #1 rated show on a network is still by large a big success for them, even if the network itself is in last place among the 9 that air kids' programming on Saturdays. Having already been renewed for a 2nd season means Disney has confidence in the franchise... which is weird, considering Disney's own policy of pretty much waiting until the 11th hour to renew their own 'toon series.

W.I.T.C.H. still needs time to grow. If the company has confidence in the show... then maybe it's time kids did, too.

[Wanted]

Here's a weird coincidence... maybe it's educational bias? After all, almost all of the Ivy League colleges are on the East Coast... maybe the owners of the affiliates here think they need to keep that tradition alive, so they'll refuse to show any show you can't learn from. It's a strange theory, but it does seem plausible, even if it's plain silly and moronic.It's not plausible. It would be if WABC New York did not show ABC Kids in its entirety. But, they do.

[Burgundy Ranger]

Just barely half the country actually sees that hour, and in its correct time slot? How can ABC Kids interrupt that many major markets and still be a solid 2nd this season in most of the major demographics among the broadcast networks?
ABC Kids doesn't do it -- the stations do. But with ABC's approval and blessing.


Would they be more of a challenge for Nick, CN, and Kids' WB if all of the blocks ran as intended?

Here's a weird coincidence... maybe it's educational bias? After all, almost all of the Ivy League colleges are on the East Coast... maybe the owners of the affiliates here think they need to keep that tradition alive, so they'll refuse to show any show you can't learn from. It's a strange theory, but it does seem plausible, even if it's plain silly and moronic.No, it's not THAT sinister. In reality, ABC Kids does not does not go after, care about or covet high ratings. It exists solely so that the local stations can fulfill their three-hour E/I FCC requirement.

The reason all these stations move shows to ultra early slots or don't show them at all is to clear out time for mega-money making local newscasts and infomercials. The money line is so much more important than the Nielsen line. It all trails back to ABC's contract with the NFL.

ABC paid megabucks to get the Monday Night games and then asked the affiliates to help pay the bill. The stations said, 'OK, but how do you propose we raise this extra cash?' In return, ABC gave them a couple of extra local commercial spots in the prime time schedule and allowed them to slice-n-dice Saturday mornings to generate this extra revenue.

The affiliates run this show, not the network.

[Burgundy Ranger]

It's not plausible. It would be if WABC New York did not show ABC Kids in its entirety. But, they do.WABC is owned and operated by ABC. All the stations that are owned by ABC (NY, LA, Chicago, San Fran, Philly and a few more) run ABC Kids in its entirety.

[ktoriyama]

I didn't even know Witch had started airing. What are both Witch and The Winx Club about? Teen(tween) or something like that girls face the many problems of girlhood, ie. boys, schoolwork, dark satanic witches trying to kill everyone, which they solve through the powers of friendship and love, and all that is good. Think TS with magic powers and better writing.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Can any of you guys post a link to where you usually get these Sat AM ratings? Tommy Lawson only posts ratings periodically here.

[Burgundy Ranger]

I get mine from the Kids! report at www.cynopsis.com. The Saturday ratings are usually posted every Friday (sometimes Monday). The ratings they use are in the Kids 6-11 demographic. I'm curious as to where these Girls 6-11 ratings are coming from. Maybe there's more to be found (like all the pertinent demos) there.

[Tommy Lawson]

Let's be fair here. How many times does Winx Club air outside of the 4Kids TV block? Zero. How many times does W.I.T.C.H. air outside of its Jetix on ABC Family airing on Saturday morning? There is the ABC Kids airing on Saturday (although there's debate as to whether Kim Possible will be on next Saturday 4/2 and through April, but it seems possible with the TV movie), there's usually a Sunday repeat on ABC Family, a Wednesday morning re-airing on ABC Family, and Monday and Friday airings on Toon Disney. That's a lot of times to catch one episode of W.I.T.C.H., compared to the "catch it or miss it entirely" scheduling of Winx Club, due largely to the fact there currently is no cable outlet for it. W.I.T.C.H. ratings may very well be diluted between the ABC Family and Toon Disney premiere airings. I will tell you that W.I.T.C.H. is doing quite well for the Jetix block, and moreover, the two ratings releases I posted from Disney for the premiere episodes, showed very significant ratings increases for Toon Disney, especially when you consider it's usually a digital cable network and available in far fewer homes than ABC Family is right now:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=129550

http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=859

Also, in the interest of having a fair debate, I've decided to mirror this thread in the Disney Animation forum. After all, I created a mirrored thread allowing for comparisons between the two shows back when W.I.T.C.H. first premiered.

Update: Here are the relevant ratings from the Universal Ratings Report for Saturday 3/19 I posted on the news page at http://news.toonzone.net .


Kids 6-11 Ratings for Saturday, March 19, 2005
Notes: All Times Eastern
An (S) denotes Special Presentation

ABC Kids (http://www.abckids.com) (8 am - 12:30 pm):
(1.4/6 Average)
9:00 am - Lilo & Stitch (1.1/5)
9:30 am - The Proud Family (1.8/7)
10:00 am - Even Stevens (1.5/6)
10:30 am - That's So Raven (2.0/8)
11:00 am - Phil of the Future (1.6/7)
11:30 am - Lizzie McGuire (1.6/7)
12:00 pm - W.I.T.C.H. (0.9/4)
12:30 pm - Power Rangers: S.P.D. (0.7/3)

FOX (4Kids TV) (http://www.4kids.tv) (8 am -12 pm):
(1.2/5 Average)
8:00 am - Mew Mew Power (1.4/7)
8:30 am - Winx Club (1.6/7)
9:00 am - Winx Club (1.7/7)
9:30 am - Sonic X (1.3/5)
10:00 am - Sonic X (1.1/5)
10:30 am - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (0.7/3)
11:00 am - One Piece (0.8/4)
11:30 am - Shaman King (0.9/4)

Jetix (http://www.jetix.tv) on ABC Family (8am -12pm)
(0.5/3 Average)
8:00 am - Beyblade G Revolution (0.4/2)
8:30 am - Power Rangers: S.P.D. (1.1/5)
9:00 am - Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go! (0.7/3)
9:30 am - W.I.T.C.H. (0.8/3)
10:00 am - Digimon (0.4/2)
10:30 am - Dragon Booster (0.4/2)
11:00 am - Spider-man (0.5/2)
11:30 am - X-Men (0.4/2)

[Source: Cynthia Turner's Cynopsis: Kids!]

[Dark Fact]

Ninja Turtles got the lowest ratings last week for 4KidsTV? I'm in shock! :eek:

And W.I.T.C.H. doesn't look hot either... :sad:

[Tash]

Well, I'd never seen WITCH before, so I decided to look at it tonight with no bias. To be honest, I can see why people wouldn't want to watch this show. How do I put this?... Someone watching the show for the first time might get annoyed by the voices and turn it off. I hate to admit it, but I almost did. :shrug:

[Bunai]

i must be the only one who can enjoy both:sad:
i hope it stays on.
its just starting and you can't just cut something off as soon
as it started.

WINX has more veiwers because its in its second repeat airing.

WITCH is on at 930 here so its a good time for me
except when i'm switching back and forth between SLShowdown

[ShadowBrat]

WITCH!? A ratings disaster!? Hardly...

As it was pointed out the show plays several times on several different channels, the ratings may look low but that's because they are fragmented from being spread so thin. But, if you add the various ratings together one would realise that the show does indeed pull in substantial viewers.

[RayChuang]

Personally, I think it's very hard to judge the ratings for W.i.t.c.h. for these reasons:

1. The showing on ABC's ABC Kids Saturday morning programming block is at a time that a large fraction of the country doesn't see the program because many affiliates don't show the fourth hour.

2. The program is shown several times on ABC Family and Toon Disney channels, both of which have less ratings in terms of total viewers than over-air stations.

3. Winx Club has benefited from being shown on an over-air network seen in most of the USA.

I think we will see a second season of W.i.t.c.h., given the fact W.i.t.c.h. is the highest-rated show on ABC Family's Jetix block on Saturday mornings. :)

(Which does remind me: have they started showing the second season of Winx Club on RAI Due and France 3 in Europe yet?)

[Terrence Briggs]

Washington D.C. is a Top 5 TV Market. Our ABC affiliate does not air WITCH.

The Baltimore ABC affiliate airs WITCH at 5 AM.

And so on.

Thanks to Tommy Lawson for his fair assessment of WITCH's ratings "issues".

[Wanted]

WABC is owned and operated by ABC. All the stations that are owned by ABC (NY, LA, Chicago, San Fran, Philly and a few more) run ABC Kids in its entirety.Well, I was going to contradict myself in my earlier post, but, then I'd be contradicting myself. And, you never want to contradict yourself. It makes you look foolish.

[tucsoncoyote]

As I mentioned, and has been several times by numerous people including myself at the Disney Forum, W.I.T.C.H. was really given a short leash on ABC Kids, and coupled with the fact it's not an E/I show hurt it even worse.

It's a shame, really, but with ABC being one of the Big Three who only has Saturday AM kids' programming because of the FCC's 3-hour E/I requirement, and many affiliates unwilling to air anything kid-related that doesn't meet that requirement... W.I.T.C.H. gets an unfair shaft. As someone mentioned, it's in a bad time slot to boot... are there still people watching at 12 Noon?

W.I.T.C.H. is one of the best written animated series on the air right now. It's too bad it seems ABC Kids is pulling it... but coupled between ABC's affiliate programming practices, and the fact that kids either already keep up with the show on ABC Family or just plain don't watch it at all... there's not much we can really do, is there?

It's always sad when a great show in execution doesn't find an audience. It's even sadder when terrible, generic shows do... but that's another debate. That's Very True there Freedom Fighter, and in fact I believe I said that Comment about the Noon Time slot for Witch (After all There are times on Some Channels (Even before there was E/I ) where shows didn't fit the bill

I like to call these items, "Death slots."

Now before TV was turned into what I like to call "An Electronic Wasteland" of mindless shows that have to have Educational or Informational Ramifications, there were times of the day when certain shows just would not be good to air. Usually for Saturday Morning shows the best time to show a Program is between 8 am an 10 am in the Morning. These are what are known as "Prime Slots" and in fact with today's E/I Rules in place the "Prime slots" go to Shows that are E/I in nature.

But then outside these two time zones the 8 am to 10 am slots, are what we call "The Death Slots." Now if a Show comes on before 8 am in hte morning, usually most shows that are put on for this were for kids under the age of 7. (The shows were usually Cute and in fact aimed towards the younger audiences.) But Past 10 Am in the morning, Most Affiliates, (and Some Non-Affiliates) used to pre-empt shows for other things, like sporting events, (like football, basketball or whatever) and usually the shows that were "pre-empted" Usually ran later in the day (Just before the 5PM news)

Nowadays however, because of what I like to call "Incessant Crowding" of Shows" most of these Children's shows are never shown. and hence this is where the Term "Death slots" comes up.

You put a Show say in one of these "death slots", and there is a 95 % chance of Probability that the ratings will be so low it's never going to survive. and usually Programming managers used to Program shows that had been around for a couple years into these "Death slots" .

But the Bottom line is this.. shows that are put on either before 8 / 7 central or after 10 AM/9am Central usually don't survive beyond 2 seasons. and there is of course that 95% chance of lack of survival..

(after all I've been Tracking show trends for over 30 years), and I have learned the patterns quite well by now. If you ever watch a show that is on at particular time, and they suddenly shift to one of these time slots outside the regular ones then it was on it's way out.

but with today's E/I Rules, Shows that are E/I in nature usually survive, and are never put into a death slot. But shows that are Non/EI in nature get the shaft and end up in that after 10 am/9 Central Slot and it's Death then. So folks Look at the shows after 10 AM (Eastern/Pacific ) or before 8 AM Eastern/ Pacific and you can easilty figure out that these shows will be on the way out.. (After all a lot of the ratings are based on a "Bell Curve" theory and the highest Ratings some shows get are righ around the 9 am to 10 AM slots.. while the lowest are usually on the early AM and Late AM hours.

after all this isn't a Some Haphazard guessing game, but is a common trend that has been around since Demographich has been born.. and in fact that's really all it is.. Statistics and Probability, but when you factor in the E/I Rulies, Well Witch has a pretty tough road to Hoe. and that is smething That might need to change. if fans want better television.

:coyote:

[Conan-san]

So captiltisum wins again :yawn: I hope your happy america.

[Burgundy Ranger]

W.I.T.C.H. would get the same pre-emption treatment from the affiliates no matter when you scheduled it. It gets lopped off much more for being non-E/I than being on at 12:00 -- that it's both makes it that much worse.

Your 'bell curve' holds true for adults as well as kids -- and it's the reason why the affiliates want 8-10 for local news and infomercials. That's when the most people watch so that's when they can charge the highest ad rates.

That's why ABC Kids doesn't schedule 8-9 anymore. That's why Nick on CBS doesn't schedule 9-11. That's why NBC's Discovery Kids lineup doesn't start until 10.

For many years, 10:00 has been the 'Clash of the Titans' slot in kids programming. For quite a while it was Digimon (Fox Kids) vs. Pokemon (WB) vs. Lizzie (ABC, in quite the counterprogramming move). When 4Kids took over, TMNT was at 10:00 until just very recently.

But WB seems to have extended that prime window because they still get big numbers for Yu-Gi-Oh at 11:00.

[DarT]

I actually thought that WITCH would be popular, especially with the young female audience.

[Terrence Briggs]

but with today's E/I Rules, Shows that are E/I in nature usually survive, and are never put into a death slot. But shows that are Non/EI in nature get the shaft and end up in that after 10 am/9 Central Slot and it's Death then... Statistics and Probability, but when you factor in the E/I Rulies, Well Witch has a pretty tough road to Hoe.
:coyote:
Hang on, folks:

WITCH *is* E/I-complaint. I've seen the stamp on the last three episodes that aired in Baltimore. Dpn't know exactly how it qualifies, but whatever works.

The modified E/I rules were created precisely because affiliates kept airing E/I shows in dead slots (5 AM, etc.) outside of the prime time slots. Last year, FoxBox would air E/I -compliant shows in near-dead slots (8 AM). That's why Stargate: Infinity and Back to the Future aired when they did.

[Wanted]

... and probably why The Cramp Twins did, also.

[Artimus Gigan]

So captiltisum wins again :yawn: I hope your happy america.Capitalism is pretty much the governing factor for all businesses

[Mighty_Bojingo]

I'm not doing a very good job of supporting Witch Saturday mornings it seems. I dont get it here Sat/Sun mornings like i used to. (Parents switched to Satellite, so i dont get ANY WinxClub episodes -sux to be me-). And ABC stopped airing Jetix Sat/Sun mornings, so i'm forced to watch my Witch and DragonBooster eps Monday night. I'm just glad they re-air it on Friday nights incase i miss it on mondays.

Thousands of channels on satellite, and i dont get the channel the KidsTV airs on. I REALLY hope Cartoonnetwork gets Winx Club now.

[Vale]

Hey, I figured out part of the reason why WITCH's ratings suck. Yesterday, I was really pumped about watching it, since I'd been trying to catch it for weeks now. The commercials said "WITCH...coming up next!" And then, guess what I got to see? That's right, frickin' LILO & STITCH! My local station totally whored itself to the almighty E/I, dammit!

[Mog]

I checked TVguide.com a while ago to see what time WITCH is on in the morning in KC, Missouri. Did you guys know there's a 4AM now? I'm shattered. Why didn't anyone tell me?

Yeah, it's partitioned by the morning news and Good Morning America. That's why I watch it on Mondays Jetix.

[Hordesman]

i must be the only one who can enjoy both:sad:
Nope. I enjoy 'em both too.
Um, so why is it that WINX toys were in US stores by August '04 and even have new characters being released throughout '05? WITCH has various dolls out in Europe. If these or US-only sculpts don't come out soon, Disney will end up with their own Totally Spies- a girls' action show with toys in Europe but not the US.

[Burgundy Ranger]

I checked TVguide.com a while ago to see what time WITCH is on in the morning in KC, Missouri. Did you guys know there's a 4AM now? I'm shattered. Why didn't anyone tell me?Be careful. It might still be 5 a.m. When a time change Sunday is approaching, the times shown for days AFTER the time change are off by one hour until we get to the actual time change.
I'm not doing a very good job of supporting Witch Saturday mornings it seems. I dont get it here Sat/Sun mornings like i used to. (Parents switched to Satellite, so i dont get ANY WinxClub episodes -sux to be me-). And ABC stopped airing Jetix Sat/Sun mornings, so i'm forced to watch my Witch and DragonBooster eps Monday night.If you got satellite YOU GOT ABC FAMILY -- which is nowhere close to stopping showing Jetix. On DirecTV, it's channel 311. On Dish Network, it's channel 180. ABC (the network) has never shown Jetix.

Just one thing to watch -- depending on where you live. Those two dish services carry only the East Coast feed of ABC Family. So WITCH is on at 8:30 Central, 7:30 Mountain and 6:30 Pacific.

[Martin]

Well, reading about all your airing time and pre-empting troubles about Witch I'll suggest you all emigrate to Western Europe. You have the same time for the largest part of it, and on some channels there is no chance of pre-emption. The Dutch Jetix channel will air Witch in June, so you have time to consider about it.

[Wanted]

Well, let me learn Dutch and pack my bags.

[Crash]

So captiltisum wins again :yawn: I hope your happy america.Captiltisum? Is that some uber-villain from the comics that hasn't been introduced in the show yet?

But if you're refering to 'capitalism,' then well... We've already heard from Greg Weisman that he's been tapped to help write the second season of the show. So I would consider that a victory for capitalism, and I am happy. :)

[Gokou Ruri]

Yes, Captiltisum and his four henchment each making up four emotions... Hate, Greed, Anger, and Jealousy. Oh wait, that's someone else :shrug:

[LightShadow1890]

What is this E/I I hear about.

And to be honest, I have been listening to this WITCH and WINX things going on, and I will say this, WITCH will work very hard to be WINX.

I don't know who was the original, and who copied who, but regardless WINX was out first, established itself, and even has a toy line. Loyal demographic, afairly succesful toylijne, and for a girl's show decently written, no JLU but way better than Totally Spies and Atomic Betty comibned. It's a pretty decent show though I will never admit to watching it.

WITCH on the other hand has to fight tooth and nail against a well established contender just to get a limited demographic. It would have to be written by a team of Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Craig McCrakken, and Gennedy the Clone Wars Guy, just to get an edge on WINX. Because to the 95% of the target demographic who doesn't know the complex backstory, WITCH is the copy cat. Though I will admit I have never seen an episode of this from a combination of the fact that I don't wake uo that early on Saturdays anyomore, 3 pm is the usual time, and I don't think that it is worth the hardrive spave to tape it.
You have your facts wrong. W.I.T.C.H was first to appear.

I haven't seen both, but I think WinX seems corny right off the bat. But that's just a first impression.

[Hurricane V1]

I saw Winx; it didn't really interest me at all, the animation gave me a headache.

I do love kid's crazes and I thought WITCH would be one of them, but I bought five books and can't really stand to buy any more. They just drag on too much. I watched the show, it was decent but nothing I'd break my daily schedule to watch. When I first heard about the WITCH franchise, I thought it would contain a story and world that would be really captivating, I do love a good fantasy tale. But it just came off as too generic and uninspired. I've seen the gimmick of elemental powers distributed among a team too many times. Metamoor just isn't that fantastic of a world, it just looks an older European civilization. There's like no mysterys in WITCH worth sticking around for, I know Eylron is working against the girls, I really don't even care what her motive is by this point. The characters probably aren't going to develop any further than the stereotypical types they remain.

Not to sound negative, I'm not insulting anyone who does like the series. I'm just disappointed.

[Gokou Ruri]

Read the fumetti (comics), the show doesn't do the series justice compared to them :D

[Martin]

Remember W.I.T.C.H. is created in Europe. So that's where the inspiration comes from, though there are details referring to the USA. But you only can see that in the comics. The chapter books don't suffice to have a good idea of things entirely.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/MartinJoustra/witch_intro_anim.gif (http://home.zonnet.nl/m.th.joustra/index.html)

[Hordesman]

The one thing that gets on my nerves about the chapter books are the recaps.

[ktoriyama]

You have your facts wrong. W.I.T.C.H was first to appear.

I haven't seen both, but I think WinX seems corny right off the bat. But that's just a first impression.Whilst WITCH was the first to appear, WINX was the first to appear on television (I think). But I know it was the first to appear in the States on TV. As my point went, its been here for 6 months, has a toyline, established itself, made a name of itself, so the public will percieve WITCH as the imatation regardless of the truth.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I'm pretty sure Winx aired in Europe before the US as well so which one aired in Europe first?

But yes reguardless of the truth the general public will assume Witch is clone of Winx. Them's the breaks.

[Martin]

The one thing that gets on my nerves about the chapter books are the recaps.I suggest you to read these recaps (http://home.zonnet.nl/m.th.joustra/index%20Witch/overzicht.htm) of the comics.

[tucsoncoyote]

I've been moitoring this thread and in fact I have to say this.. Ratings don't lie.. and if they do then they have to be manipulated..

but ratings really show how popular a show is.. and in fact i just finished compiling a list of Ratings for Witch and it's predecessor Kim Possible and it shows one thing... if Witch is Popular.. then the numbers don't show it..

I mean I looked back a year previous when Kim Possible was on ABC Kids and the numbers for Kim were pretty impressive.. 1.0-2.8 ratings..while Witch so far has been well below 1.0 on a vast majority of the shows..(only twice has W.i.t.c.h. been above 1.0, maxing out at 1.4 on ABC kids.

Now as for Winx Club, I have been looking at it.. and it's pretty Comparable to the afforementioned Kim Possible.. 1.0-2.8 with a rough averatge comperable to Kim's, 1.6.

The Bottom Line.. if these numbers show anythhing.. Winx Club Has the Staying power, while W.i.t.c.h. does not.. (After all why is it that ABC Kids is running Kim Possible for the entire month of April? Easy.. To shore up it's ratings.. After all in just 2 months, W.i.t.c.h has proven that if you are going to be second into the US, expect to lose fans and expect that without some sort of Merchandising Ploy, you're not going to survive long.

But that's just one thought on this.

Your Comments?

:coyote:

[ktoriyama]

Was Kim Possible on only on ABC Kids or a wide variety of stations?
Did Kim Possible have a unified time, ie at 11 almost everywhere?
Was Kim Possible, in what I believe you termed a "death slot"?

People seem to mention that WITCH is on at a whole variety of times, furthermore is subject to frequent preemptions and oddball slots, ie 4 am. No "kid" should be up that late, or early depending how you look at it. Also wasn't WITCH suppose to be for a more mature audience with the darker storylines. You might have to add the ratings of the 9-11 demo and whatever is after.

[Wanted]

But, Kim Possible has proven its success, while W.I.T.C.H. has not.

Curse my position...

[tucsoncoyote]

Was Kim Possible on only on ABC Kids or a wide variety of stations?
Did Kim Possible have a unified time, ie at 11 almost everywhere?
Was Kim Possible, in what I believe you termed a "death slot"?

People seem to mention that WITCH is on at a whole variety of times, furthermore is subject to frequent preemptions and oddball slots, ie 4 am. No "kid" should be up that late, or early depending how you look at it. Also wasn't WITCH suppose to be for a more mature audience with the darker storylines. You might have to add the ratings of the 9-11 demo and whatever is after. That's the Interesting thing here, ktoriyama, and in fact I'm in Tucson Arizona, and in fact when Kim Possible Came on, it wasn't 10 AM originally in 2002 or 2003 , but rather 6:30 AM ( Yes 6:30!) of course 6:30 AM is one of those Deathslots, yet I got up and still watched. of course you are right but elsewhere Kim was indeed in a Deathslot all the time, (remember Before 7AM or after 10AM (Mountain Time) , that was the "Death Slots" (For the East Coast it was Before 9 AM or After Noon, and for the West Coast again. 7AM and 10 AM respectively.

but the point is this.. you look at Kim, and the worst SHe ever got was 0.8 and that was druing August of 2004. She also had a 0.9 on March 22, 2003, but remember that there was "Operation Iraqi Freedom" Was going on at the time (in fact Cynopsis Kids! that day saw a dramatic Drop in ratings that day due to the war). so Kim's Ratings would have been in the 1.2-1.5 range for March 22nd, 2003. but even as late as November 2004, Kim was moved to the 10 AM Death Slot here in Tucson, and she still pulled in comperable ratings.. still in the 1.0-1.5 range. so I think anywhere you put Kim, she'll get that number of at least 1.0 to 1.5 (unless you run new episodes then the ratings will be higher. (in the 2.0 to 2.5 range.).


But Kim Possible has proven it's success, while W.I.T.C.H. has not. That's very true Toonmaster, Kim HAS proven her ratings success, and in fact that's a given.. and that is also why in April Kim Possible is coming back to ABC kids just for that month, Like I said, to shore up ABC Kids' Sagging ratings.

If it weren't for Kim Possible being a hit and an alternate, a lot of ABC Kids' shows would be switched out or be getting so low ratings that it's not funny, and in fact that would force ABC to witch out the newer shows for older ABC shows that have worked with better successes, Including Even Stevens (after all in the last 60 days Ratings at ABCKids /Jetix have been in a slump, and it's really pushed Fox Box further ahead. so ABC kids needs a boost, a Shot in the arm as it were, and Kim Possible is it. Sheg's the perfect Anchor Person in that next to Last slot. pure and simple.

:coyote:

[William C. Maune]

W.I.T.C.H. which premieres its episodes as part of the ABC Family Jetix block, doesn't seem to be doing that bad compared to the rest of the block.

[Wanted]

It does always seem to pull the highest ratings. But, even then, looking at it that way, that's sort of sad when a 0.9 is the highest rating.

[William C. Maune]

It does always seem to pull the highest ratings. But, even then, looking at it that way, that's sort of sad when a 0.9 is the highest rating.

.9 may not seem high, but it has to be looked at in context. If it is doing well compared to the rest of the block then it is doing fine. Power Rangers doesn't do much better than that on ABC Family Jetix, yet it gets renewed every year.

[tucsoncoyote]

.9 may not seem high, but it has to be looked at in context. If it is doing well compared to the rest of the block then it is doing fine. Power Rangers doesn't do much better than that on ABC Family Jetix, yet it gets renewed every year. So then Will, a Question right back at you .. Why is it then that Disney Channel doesn't renew some of their Original Programs and Keep thenm on ABC kids /Jetix? (Like That's So Raven, Kim Possible, and even Lilo and Stitch.. These even get higher ratings then Power Rangers and W.i.t.c.h as well. and even though Power Rangers has 29 Seasons and variations, how hard ecomnomically is it to say Have Disney Extend one of these other Higher Rated Shows Just 1 or even 2 seasons.. (That I feel is a very Viable question To Ask Disney. ) after all if Even Kim Possible gets on Average 1.0 to 1.5, and Power Rangers and Witch get lower Ratings then that.., shouldn't Kim Possible, or Lilo and Stitch, (in locigal Terms), be given yet a 3rd, 4th or even a 5th season (Considering that there are plenty of ideas left in these shows)? I mean how much impact economically would it be to do that?

:coyote:

[BigKPFan76]

Since Kim is so popular.....and indeed she is.......then to me it only makes sense to renew. After all, if a show is popular, does it not get a second, third or even a fourth season?

[William C. Maune]

So then Will, a Question right back at you .. Why is it then that Disney Channel doesn't renew some of their Original Programs and Keep thenm on ABC kids /Jetix? (Like That's So Raven, Kim Possible, and even Lilo and Stitch.. These even get higher ratings then Power Rangers and W.i.t.c.h as well. and even though Power Rangers has 29 Seasons and variations, how hard ecomnomically is it to say Have Disney Extend one of these other Higher Rated Shows Just 1 or even 2 seasons.. (That I feel is a very Viable question To Ask Disney. ) after all if Even Kim Possible gets on Average 1.0 to 1.5, and Power Rangers and Witch get lower Ratings then that.., shouldn't Kim Possible, or Lilo and Stitch, (in locigal Terms), be given yet a 3rd, 4th or even a 5th season (Considering that there are plenty of ideas left in these shows)? I mean how much impact economically would it be to do that?

Jetix is an action-oriented block and thus most of those shows wouldn't fit, although Kim Possible might. Also, if they renewed those other shows then there wouldn't be money to fund new shows, like W.I.T.C.H. As for Power Rangers, while it does get renewed each year, each season is a separate show with different characters, different storyline, different etc.

[MahouShoujo13]

Was Kim Possible on only on ABC Kids or a wide variety of stations?

Kim Possible is also on the Disney Channel. I think it started out there...and went into the ABC Kids Sat. Morning line-up.


People seem to mention that WITCH is on at a whole variety of times, furthermore is subject to frequent preemptions and oddball slots, ie 4 am. No "kid" should be up that late, or early depending how you look at it. Also wasn't WITCH suppose to be for a more mature audience with the darker storylines. You might have to add the ratings of the 9-11 demo and whatever is after.
I think you're right. NO KID actually wakes up at 4 in the morning just to watch WITCH.

Well, yes, WITCH is darker compared to the show. Some fans of the comic may be disappointed. And I've never seen a small child than likes dark stuff.

Hmm....maybe I should watch the show...considering the fact it...is darker.

[tucsoncoyote]

Jetix is an action-oriented block and thus most of those shows wouldn't fit, although Kim Possible might. Also, if they renewed those other shows then there wouldn't be money to fund new shows, like W.I.T.C.H. As for Power Rangers, while it does get renewed each year, each season is a separate show with different characters, different storyline, different etc. Right but since Jetix and ABC Kids are seperate entities, then why should they have W.i.t.c.h on both Jetix and ABC Kids? still , shows that fit into one Category (Like Lilo and Stitch) could remain on ABC Kids, but shows Like Kim Possible , could end up on either Jetix or ABC Kids. That I agree upon. after all Kim Possible is Action/Adventure/Comedy, much Like Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go! so instead of Moving a Disney ChannelOriginal that has the "Action " Element in it to Toon Disney, why Not move it to Jetix? or ABC Family? (Here again is that issue of Lower Ratings on ABC Family. )

But as for the issue of spending that cash on the original (Higher rated) shows instead of Newer untried shows (which are getting Lower Ratings) sometimes doesn't fit the bill (After all Look how much money they spent (eg wasted) on Witch.. and Winx Club is cleaning the floor with them iin terms of viewership, merchandising, and who knows what!

In short Will, The logic on this second isse really is a major sticking point for me.. If it's Popular and s good and enterraining (and it generates even merchandising) Don't Broadcast Companies keep their Best Rated shws, rather then their Worst? That's very Illogical in the case of Disney.. Ditch the Good, Keep the Bad? Sorry, I don't buy it. and if it's bad, I wouldn't watch it.

:coyote:

[William C. Maune]

(After all Look how much money they spent (eg wasted) on Witch.. and Winx Club is cleaning the floor with them iin terms of viewership, merchandising, and who knows what!

Because they aren't wasting money on W.I.T.C.H. it was produced primarily for the ABC Family Jetix block and it is doing fine on there. It is doing well enough in fact that a second season has been ordered (to be produced by Greg Weisman!). As for Winx Club, I don't see any reason why both shows can't be successes. This isn't like the Highlander where there can be only one.

[Burgundy Ranger]

ABC Kids' running of KP in April has much more to do with a chance to cross-promote the movie and the addition to the Toon Disney lineup than with ratings.

Frankly, ABC Kids barely gives an ounce of care about the ratings they get. They're, frankly, not out to 'win' a doggone thing. If they wanted to use KP for a temporary ratings boost, they'd have done it in May -- sweeps month.

The application of 'normal programming tactics' -- keep the shows that get critical acclaim and high ratings -- is a flat-out no-no when it comes to Disney, where 'newer' is preferrable to 'better.'

And on the argument that a show shouldn't be on Jetix AND ABC Kids: Well, every show in the ABC Kids lineup is a show that's on somewhere else (Disney Channel or ABC Family) AND ABC Kids. It's on those 'somewhere else' channels where each show gets better time slots, better ratings and first airings.

ABC Kids has mop-up duty to keep the affiliates legal. Nothing more.

[RayChuang]

...Really depends on how well the show does on European television (it should appear on European TV channels within the next few months).

If the show is a success on European TV channels than we will likely see a second season of W.i.t.c.h. in the USA; I believe that Winx Club did very well on RAI Due and France 3 during its first run in Europe in the first half of 2004 and they may be already showing the second season of Winx Club in Europe now.

[kaine23]

Funny, WITCH is on mid-morning on ABC Family in my area...

[Dee]

the only reel witches r at hogwarts. witch and winx are just wannabes.:anime: :anime:

[Wanted]

Funny, WITCH is on mid-morning on ABC Family in my area...Isn't it all over the east coast? After all, that is a national cable TV network...

[Martin]

But as for the issue of spending that cash on the original (Higher rated) shows instead of Newer untried shows (which are getting Lower Ratings) sometimes doesn't fit the bill (After all Look how much money they spent (eg wasted) on Witch.. and Winx Club is cleaning the floor with them iin terms of viewership, merchandising, and who knows what!Disney has let go of merchandising Witch and now other companies take advantage of it. Sites like Witch World (http://www.ideahobby.it/collezioni/witch/index.html) sell Witch stuff, but there is more, such as school diaries, dolls, bags, purses, towels, bedspreads... I have a Witch penholder on my desk. There is even an Eau de Toilette line.
...Really depends on how well the show does on European television (it should appear on European TV channels within the next few months).For sure! Even when you realise the comics are introduced first in Europe, while those are not available in the States yet. The differences between the comics and the show are very large, which can cause confusement. In Europe no one expects characters like Blunk and the Tracker. But I'm optimistic about Blunk and Caleb. Both will be very amusing.

[Dee]

http://i.timeinc.net/TFK/media/specials/graphics/011022_potter/quiz/snape.jpg


HEHEHEHEHEHE LOLOZZZZZZZZZ

[Conan-san]

Inane retardation. Look, I'll pm you my credit card details,now just go away and never come back to this form.

[Burgundy Ranger]

Isn't it all over the east coast? After all, that is a national cable TV network...Yes, it is -- 9:30 Eastern/Pacific, 8:30 Central, 7:30 Mountain.

The only difference is the people in the Pacific time zone who have mini-dish systems. DirectTV & Dish only carry the Eastern feed of ABCFam, so WITCH is on at 6:30 for them.

[tucsoncoyote]

Yes, it is -- 9:30 Eastern/Pacific, 8:30 Central, 7:30 Mountain.

The only difference is the people in the Pacific time zone who have mini-dish systems. DirectTV & Dish only carry the Eastern feed of ABCFam, so WITCH is on at 6:30 for them.BTW SteveR, did you look at the Week ending March 26th? The Ratings for Witch were 0.6/3 and the Ratings for Winx (Both ) episodes of Winx Club, were 1.4/7 and 1.8/7.. which means that if W.i.t.c.h is trying to be Winx.. It's failing Miserably.. I think here Disney needs To Really start to move away from this and start developing more creative ideas that sitll would pertain to the original W.i.t.c.h. Concept and stop trying to make W.i.t.c.h better then Winx Club by means of Emulation..

(In short i have seen Both Shows as well and I have to agree here with a few of the folks.. W.i.t.c.h and Winx should be completely different ideas , just like Kim Possible and Totally Spies and Kim Possible are the Same Genre (Spy Girl) , but different shows altogeher(After all I see Totally Spies as being more like The Girl from Uncle, and KP being a Melody Blaze style background).

I think once that Happens the ratings on Witch will come up and be comperable to Winx Club.. after all W.i.t.c.h. needs to develop it's own style to the genre..

:coyote:

[William C. Maune]

BTW SteveR, did you look at the Week ending March 26th? The Ratings for Witch were 0.6/3 and the Ratings for Winx (Both ) episodes of Winx Club, were 1.4/7 and 1.8/7.. which means that if W.i.t.c.h is trying to be Winx.. It's failing Miserably.. I think here Disney needs To Really start to move away from this and start developing more creative ideas that sitll would pertain to the original W.i.t.c.h. Concept and stop trying to make W.i.t.c.h better then Winx Club by means of Emulation..

There doesn't have to be a winner between W.I.T.C.H. and Winx Club. Just because one has higher ratings does not mean the other is failing. Fox Box in general just gets higher ratings than ABC Family Jetix. What is important for W.I.T.C.H. is how it is doing compared to the rest of the shows on its own block.

[tucsoncoyote]

There doesn't have to be a winner between W.I.T.C.H. and Winx Club. Just because one has higher ratings does not mean the other is failing. Fox Box in general just gets higher ratings than ABC Family Jetix. What is important for W.I.T.C.H. is how it is doing compared to the rest of the shows on its own block.
That's true Will, but when you state it that way (on its Own block) , are you just refering to ABC/Jetix In general or are you refering ABC Jetix vs other Cable nad Broadcast companies.. see that's the important question to ask here.. what is it that we have to base W.i.t.c.h. on.. Just Jetix or everything else.. if you state the former it's still okay with a 0.9 Rating on Jetix, but if you compare it to everything else.. it's hurting.. so in short that question is relative to how you are referring it to..

:coyote:

[William C. Maune]

That's true Will, but when you state it that way (on its Own block) , are you just refering to ABC/Jetix In general or are you refering ABC Jetix vs other Cable nad Broadcast companies.. see that's the important question to ask here.. what is it that we have to base W.i.t.c.h. on.. Just Jetix or everything else.. if you state the former it's still okay with a 0.9 Rating on Jetix, but if you compare it to everything else.. it's hurting.. so in short that question is relative to how you are referring it to..

It's just based on Jetix. If it was based on everything else then all of Jetix would be considered failing, yet that isn't the case. W.I.T.C.H. just has to do well enough compared to the rest of the Jetix block.

[tucsoncoyote]

It's just based on Jetix. If it was based on everything else then all of Jetix would be considered failing, yet that isn't the case. W.I.T.C.H. just has to do well enough compared to the rest of the Jetix block.*blinks at Will 's Avitar..* (Uh are you sure you didn't ingest some Duck Soup Will?)

anywho.. I would then have to agree with you here.. and yes compared to "Other Broadcasting Channels" All of the shows Mentioned in Jetix would be failing (if you compare them to the Other channels. but as you mentioned this makes perfect sense..(of course I've always noted "Rating Discrepencies when it comes to Putting Witch agianst ABC Kids..(or using ABC Kids as the basis.. Compared to that then it's one of the lowest Rated shows vs other ABC Kids shows..) but since we're talking Jetix.. then yeah it makes perfect sense.. thanks for Clearing that up Will..

(and my word of advice "Don't eat the Duck soup" next time.. Okay?:D )

:coyote:

[William C. Maune]

Speaking of ABC Kids, while the Power Rangers SPD ratings on Jetix were lower than usual this past week, there is often a similar discrepancy between the ratings for Power Rangers on Jetix and ABC Kids as what we are seeing with W.I.T.C.H. One of the main reasons for this is that in many markets the final hour of ABC Kids is preempted. Thus, the shows in the final hour, W.I.T.C.H. and Power Rangers, automatically get lower ratings by the shear fact that they aren't seen on as many stations.

[tucsoncoyote]

Speaking of ABC Kids, while the Power Rangers SPD ratings on Jetix were lower than usual this past week, there is often a similar discrepancy between the ratings for Power Rangers on Jetix and ABC Kids as what we are seeing with W.I.T.C.H. One of the main reasons for this is that in many markets the final hour of ABC Kids is preempted. Thus, the shows in the final hour, W.I.T.C.H. and Power Rangers, automatically get lower ratings by the shear fact that they aren't seen on as many stations. That's true Will, and in fact it's funny cause like today on ABC Kids, Since they are promoting Kim Possible and the upcoming So the Drama Movie, plus the fact that the episode (Hidden Talent) was pre-empted by 5 minutes ) for the fact that the pope was on his last legs.. it makes me wonder if they should just keep W.i.t.c.h on Jetix/ABC Family and not try to push the issue with ABC kids..(after all this is someting I noted while Compiling ratings.. and this is in regards to Kim Possible (after all Kim in some cases has finished 2 or 3rd in 2003 and 2004, behing Lizzie and Raven, (Both Live Action Shows) but in late 2004, Raven and Lizzie had lackluster sets of Numbers equal to or less then KP's rating..

but this starts to make me wonder.. if maybe this is a test to see what works and what doesn't on ABC kids..(also I still think if we look at W.i.t.c.h. in general.. Jetix is a good place to be..(but also Like was stated earlier I think if KP was on Jetix.. It might shore up the ratings..after all I think Kim is far from over when it comes to Rating Grabs..(she still has potential. A good replacement for That half an hour might be American Dragon Jake Long, and if he did well we could easily turn a negative situation into a positive one. by

1. Moving Kim Possible to Jetix, it would shore up the block's Ratings and they could remove possible a Marvel block (as there are issues dealing with Marvel and Disney at this point)

and

2. By Moving Jake to even the noon Slot (or moving it to the slot before 12 PM it could in theory qualify as an E/I or if not, and had to be placed in the 12PM Slot and get good ratings..(after all I highly think that The could bring Dave the Barbarian in as a replacement..(after all on the 26th, Dave got a solid 1.6 on Disney Channel..) and therefore Disney now has some options..at least.. but it's just a thought..

(*Blinks again..* Okay, So if I say the Secret Word do I win 100 Bucks?)

:coytoe:

[William C. Maune]

(*Blinks again..* Okay, So if I say the Secret Word do I win 100 Bucks?)

Only if you can resurrect Groucho!

[Chad Bonin]

So then Will, a Question right back at you .. Why is it then that Disney Channel doesn't renew some of their Original Programs and Keep thenm on ABC kids /Jetix? (Like That's So Raven, Kim Possible, and even Lilo and Stitch.. These even get higher ratings then Power Rangers and W.i.t.c.h as well. and even though Power Rangers has 29 Seasons and variations, how hard ecomnomically is it to say Have Disney Extend one of these other Higher Rated Shows Just 1 or even 2 seasons.. (That I feel is a very Viable question To Ask Disney. ) after all if Even Kim Possible gets on Average 1.0 to 1.5, and Power Rangers and Witch get lower Ratings then that.., shouldn't Kim Possible, or Lilo and Stitch, (in locigal Terms), be given yet a 3rd, 4th or even a 5th season (Considering that there are plenty of ideas left in these shows)? I mean how much impact economically would it be to do that? Power Rangers is potentially Disney's most renewable, safest bet, series currently on the air.

Production was moved to New Zealand. That saves a lot of money.
There is actually a set minimum percentage of amount of unoriginal footage they need to use per season. Therefore, no more than XX% of a series can be original footage.
Major rumors spread that we'll be seeing the even greater sharing of sources from Super Sentai and Power Rangers. The credits for "Mahou Sentai Magiranger" (next year's "Power Rangers Mystic Force") list some Power Ranger staff as special thanks, and much location filming of Magiranger was done in New Zealand, not Japan.
Trimming episode count per season. We've got from 60-something to a grand total of 32 next year.
Rerun viability. Thanks to the variety and sheer amount (540+ episodes), Disney's been able to get away with getting ratings for half-decade old episodes. Look how far Power Rangers Generations has expanded.
Power Rangers is the larget franchise for boys throughout the world. Given that Disney owns Super Sentai in every country but Japan, that's a pretty sweet deal.

[tucsoncoyote]

Only if you can resurrect Groucho!(No but I can ressurect Harpo!) LOL!

But getting back to the issue at hand.. I think really we can view either W.i.t.c.h and Winx Club on a side by side basis.. the reason being is that both cartoons are first on different Channels which have Different Demographics.. Second.. we have to remember which Channel really has been around longer when we look at ABC Family (Formerly Fox Family) and Fox.. (Now called 4 Kids Fox Box..)and Three, The Fact that One Company has been Managed better then the other..(yes Fox has actually done better managing of their shows then Disney ABC Family has.. so in a nutshell it boils down to trying to compare Apples to Pineapples..or Watermelon..or Oranges..

Frankly sure both are in the Same Style genre, and both are good shows for their Respective Blocks.. but you can't really place one above the other, but if you look at this.. well it comes down to "Which Show Really Has the Better Dynamics when it comes to Character interaction..and Winx Club for some reason has those better Dynamicx then W.i.t.c.h. (I mean the characters are not horribly drawn, mind you but the intereactions between Each of the show's Characters on W.i.t.c.h. seem a bit more "Forced " then Winx Club's Characters (who in a way are a bit more dynamic)

but again this is "just an Issue" of observation" as I have seen both shows and how the characters interact.


(*BTW Will, Where's Chico Marx when you really need him?)


Power Rangers is potentially Disney's most renewable, safest bet, series currently on the air.

Production was moved to New Zealand. That saves a lot of money.
There is actually a set minimum percentage of amount of unoriginal footage they need to use per season. Therefore, no more than XX% of a series can be original footage.
Major rumors spread that we'll be seeing the even greater sharing of sources from Super Sentai and Power Rangers. The credits for "Mahou Sentai Magiranger" (next year's "Power Rangers Mystic Force") list some Power Ranger staff as special thanks, and much location filming of Magiranger was done in New Zealand, not Japan.
Trimming episode count per season. We've got from 60-something to a grand total of 32 next year.
Rerun viability. Thanks to the variety and sheer amount (540+ episodes), Disney's been able to get away with getting ratings for half-decade old episodes. Look how far Power Rangers Generations has expanded.
Power Rangers is the larget franchise for boys throughout the world. Given that Disney owns Super Sentai in every country but Japan, that's a pretty sweet deal.
That's true Knux, but when you play it safe far too long (Like Disney has) it soon becomes apparent that shows Like Power Rangers are a good bet, not a safe one..(A safe one would be Limiting a Cap on all shows which is really foolish as we've proven already.. already Disney is considering of "Releasing the Safeties" on shows like Kim Possible." But then you have to remembe that Even though Power Rangers has been on for 13 or 14 years now, and that there are 15 years left.. a Lot of shows that Disney does produce are in fact "Fan Driven" now (According to that One Article in The Hollywood Reporter) and in fact even though on ABC Kids ratings are low for Power Rangers, at least we know that for Each Series (which is now Brining the total Count of the PR Series to almost 550, it makes you wonder what could have happened if say Disney does the same thing for some of it's shows that are currently one..(and do spin offs of those..(After all this goes back to the Kim Possible issue. I mean we could find out what Happened after So the Drama, and go all the way into College.. Spin offs are (*Ahem*) Possible with Lilo and Stitch.. (after all we are talking that Disney needs to take a few more risks (and I have to agree Power Rangers is a very well thought out calculated Risk, but I think with W.it.c.h., this particular Demographic is the Only "Female" oriented show that exists on Jetix.. and hence I feel if Disney wants to improve it's Posturing on attracting more action adventure shows like W.i.t.c.h. they need something that's proven.. Kim Possible is that answer.. and I think fans will prove that this isn't a fluke either.. it's a known fact.. sure fire support from the fans prove that..(after all PR Fans Love PR so why not move Kim to Jetix, Give the fans more episodes to answer the questions that will be left after SO the Drama, and give the fans a Satisying run for their money..
again, another observation..


:coyote:

[Terrence Briggs]

How do ratings compare between WITCH and Winx in New York, LA, and other cities where the two compete in the normal time slots. The fact is, if WITCH airs in half the cities that Winx does, then it'll get half of the numbers if all else is equal.

Exactly who is not watching W.I.T.C.H. because it's perceived to be a Winx clone? Digimon got great ratings in its first three seasons, even though it was perceived to be a Pokemon clone. Kids would switch back and forth between the two shows, apparently, so why wouldn't 6-17-year-olds switch between Winx and WITCH?

WITCH's ratings never dropped off, because THEY WERE NEVER STRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WITCH is an E/I show. I doubt it's being preempted by affiliates to make room for E/I programming.

I'll address TucsonCoyote's points later, since he's breaking it down rather well.

[Martin]

W.I.T.C.H. continues to be a disaster in the ratings in the USA, which is the first country where the cartoon series has started. They (Disney) had been announcing thoughout the industry so much that W.I.T.C.H. would beat Winx Club flat out, yet it's the other way around with Winx Club on top beating W.I.T.C.H. out in all categories and demographics!

Here's just one example from a source available to everyone: just look at the ratings numbers from CYNTHIA TURNER'S Cynopsis: Kids! for 3/11/05: Winx Club rated 1.7 and W.I.T.C.H. rated 0.4. So where's this "ratings blow-out" Disney was claiming would happen?I believe Disney should have to keep quiet. They must have been careless to say so. And why taking ratings so serious? In Europe almost no one cares about it, just the broadcasting companies themselves. The Witch fans are satisfied enough watching the show and ignore the ratings.

[Jon Hanson]

I believe Disney should have to keep quiet. They must have been careless to say so. And why taking ratings so serious? In Europe almost no one cares about it, just the broadcasting companies themselves. The Witch fans are satisfied enough watching the show and ignore the ratings. It's hard to ignore the ratings when they all point to your show being cancelled.

[William C. Maune]

It's hard to ignore the ratings when they all point to your show being cancelled.

I don't see anything pointing towards cancellation considering it was the highest rated show on ABC Family Jetix last week.

[Burgundy Ranger]

Just to update ABC Kids' scheduling, the press site has been updated and the noon slot now shows Kim Possible all the way through September.

But it really doesn't matter what you put in this slot. As long as the affiliates do what they do to the schedule, even Pokemon would get junk ratings.

[Pathfinder1011]

I've never liked this program from the very beginning. Failing rating means a hopeful pulling of this bomb.:lepew: Most of the Jetix shows reek also. PU.

[tucsoncoyote]

I don't see anything pointing towards cancellation considering it was the highest rated show on ABC Family Jetix last week. I tend to agree here Will after all Considering that ABC Family /Jetix is perhaps the weakest designed Schedule between the four channels Disney Owns (Which Includes ABC Kids', Disney Channel, Toon Disney/Jetix and fo course ABC Family Jetix) what Disney needs to do is in someways ditch the lower Rated shows for something better (I hear Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go! and Dragon Booster and Power Rangers are perhaps the highest rated shows that are out there in the ABC Fam/Jetix block. and this proves that they need to revamp this a bit further, after all these four shows really make up a good chunk of the ratings ABC Fam/Jetix gets..

as for SteveR's Comment


Just to update ABC Kids' scheduling, the press site has been updated and the noon slot now shows Kim Possible all the way through September.

But it really doesn't matter what you put in this slot. As long as the affiliates do what they do to the schedule, even Pokemon would get junk ratings. I have to agree. but what if ABC Kids were to move that E/I Block or split it to drop a Non-EI Program say in the middle of the 4 hours of Showtime..I bet if they did that.. it would shore up the ratings for the ABC kids' section and would force the affiliates to push one show off their List (For example if you did Drop Kim Possible in at say 10:am Rather then Noon (Eastern) and you split up the E/I Block this would cause most affiliates to drop one of those Informercial or other shows from their Line up.. After all Infomercials don't get that much in terms of ratings now do they?

here's an example of what i am saying
and all times are eastern..

09:00 AM EI Program
09:30 AM EI Program
10:00 AM EI Program
10:30 AM Non EI Program
11:00 AM EI Program
11:30 AM EI Program
12:00 PM EI Program
12:30 PM Non EI Program

I mean wouldn't it make better sense? The Affiliates would only lose 30 minuts but still get the same effect.

just a thought..



:coyote:

[BigKPFan76]

Just to update ABC Kids' scheduling, the press site has been updated and the noon slot now shows Kim Possible all the way through September.

But it really doesn't matter what you put in this slot. As long as the affiliates do what they do to the schedule, even Pokemon would get junk ratings.
Good news about Kim!! :cool:

But like you said Steve, if the affiliates pre-empt, it wont do much good. My local ABC station ALWAYS pre-empts its morning schedule. :(

[Burgundy Ranger]

I have to agree. but what if ABC Kids were to move that E/I Block or split it to drop a Non-EI Program say in the middle of the 4 hours of Showtime..I bet if they did that.. it would shore up the ratings for the ABC kids' section and would force the affiliates to push one show off their List (For example if you did Drop Kim Possible in at say 10:am Rather then Noon (Eastern) and you split up the E/I Block this would cause most affiliates to drop one of those Informercial or other shows from their Line up.. After all Infomercials don't get that much in terms of ratings now do they?

here's an example of what i am saying
and all times are eastern..

09:00 AM EI Program
09:30 AM EI Program
10:00 AM EI Program
10:30 AM Non EI Program
11:00 AM EI Program
11:30 AM EI Program
12:00 PM EI Program
12:30 PM Non EI Program

I mean wouldn't it make better sense? The Affiliates would only lose 30 minuts but still get the same effect.

just a thought..
A good thought in theory, but we know how far theory gets you.

But in reality, it just doesn't matter. The affiliates will bump the non-E/I shows from the schedule at whatever time they're shown. They'll just move that 12:00 E/I show into the 10:30 slot. Voila! The 12-1 hour is open again.

Power Rangers, because of its February-to-November season is, I believe, the main reason why they haven't gone ahead and put the non-E/I hour out of its misery. Once you start it in February, it wouldn't seem right to end it in September before it gets to the end.

But we've all seen shows yanked before they got to the end.

[Sugah]

Maybe Disney Channel should air it instead. Those fools.

[MahouShoujo13]

Maybe Disney Channel should air it instead. Those fools.
I think I agree with you. It might do better there. Like what SteveR and BigKPFan76 said, even if it the affiliates on ABC pre-empt, it'll be no good. So, W.I.T.C.H is in a bad place already by being on ABC Kids in the first place.

[Sugah]

All it takes is one primetime airing and we'll see results.

[Freedom Fighter]

Technically, it already has two. It airs Monday and Friday nights at 8:30 p.m. EST on Toon Disney. Then again, how many people actually have Toon Disney, eh?

[William C. Maune]

ToonDisney is available in 46 million homes.

[Freedom Fighter]

That doesn't mean everyone who could have it actually is paying their cable company to see it. Case in point... it's not part of my basic cable package, so I don't get the channel.

[RayChuang]

That doesn't mean everyone who could have it actually is paying their cable company to see it. Case in point... it's not part of my basic cable package, so I don't get the channel.While the Toon Disney channel is not available on Extended Basic cable packages, ABC Family Channel usually is available on most Extended Basic cable packages. As a result, we can see W.i.t.c.h. at least twice per week.

[Sugah]

Technically, it already has two. It airs Monday and Friday nights at 8:30 p.m. EST on Toon Disney. Then again, how many people actually have Toon Disney, eh?
Good point. I have toon disney, but its not something i generally watch (ofcourse its just me speaking here). :shrug: I hope they dont completely get rid of it, i would like to see it shine first,.

[ChIbI_MaDdIcHaN]

As I've seen both WITCH and Winx, I would definately be saddened if they pulled WITCH off the air.

I just get that "I'm too old for this" feeling when I try watching Winx Club. I mean...no offense, but all the characters are 'sterotypical': Bloom's the 'overglorfied perfect one' that can seemingly do no wrong. Stella's that 'sterotypical shallow blond'. Musa, is I guess suppose to be uh, the hip one? Though I think they tried *too* hard. Flora is that 'so sweet you can't stand to hate or see anything happen to her' one. And Technica is the brain. (Or is portrayed as one, as Musa in this one episode seemed to have the highest grades.) And I mean, they're all named after their 'power'. (Except for Bloom.) And I swear, nearly all of them are princesses and of COURSE Bloom falls for a Prince. And they're all nice...which is kinda annoying as it seems they press the 'these are the good guys' feel by making them all *nice*, while the Witches are all super mean to drive in 'and these are the bad guys'.

And I have no clue which episode it was, but I about died laughing when they danced with the brooms. I think it was Stella, Bloom, and the two prince dudes. (Brandon and Sky.) That had to be one of the corniest moments I've ever seen.

I like Witch better (minus Blunk) because it does seem darker than Winx and the characters actually have different personalities that fit. Even Cornelia pulls the blond shallow steriotype better than Stella. (She reminds me a lot of Corenlia from Buffy...) Irma's the careless, comedic one (and acts like it). Hay Lin is the *sweet* one though she, like every normal person, can and will get angry when something gets on her nerves. Will is the calm, strong leader. And Taranee is the quiet mousey type, intellegent but not exactly a nerd.

Personally, both in differnt elements, remind me of Sailor Moon. Not that Winx is actually a bad show, it's just not for me, I suppose. But since I have ABCFamily, I can still catch Witch.:zim:

[Mighty_Bojingo]

I've seen just about every episode of Witch that they aired in the US (sans Will's B-day episode), and something still bugs me. Does Will ACTUALLY have a power of her own to fight with? Or is transforming the other 4 girls the only thing she's good for? I never did see her do anything else but bark orders yet. Except that one time she impaled one of the orc's face with a pan or something, but that doesnt count. I think it was the episode where Cornelia made the table dance (which was actually cool).

Dont get me wrong, I still like Will, she and Hay Lin are my favorite characters, but I would still like to see my favorite characters be usefull for something.

[darksteel19890]

Newbie here.

Anyway, according to the comics Will controls energy. This allows her to talk to appliances and make them work without a power source. She can turn invisible and shoot your standard pink energy beams.

I think that's about it.

[ChIbI_MaDdIcHaN]

I've seen just about every episode of Witch that they aired in the US (sans Will's B-day episode), and something still bugs me. Does Will ACTUALLY have a power of her own to fight with? Or is transforming the other 4 girls the only thing she's good for? I never did see her do anything else but bark orders yet. Except that one time she impaled one of the orc's face with a pan or something, but that doesnt count. I think it was the episode where Cornelia made the table dance (which was actually cool).

Dont get me wrong, I still like Will, she and Hay Lin are my favorite characters, but I would still like to see my favorite characters be usefull for something.
I'll agree with you there: that is something I also noticed. Now in the book: only Hay Lin could fly, which made her stand out a little bit more with the air powers.
In the show, Will just kinda transforms everyone...and that seems to be it, other than flying (And the occasional hitting the bad guy--or getting caught/attacked by the bad guy and getting saved.) In the book, she seemed to have more powers. She still transformed the girls but the Heart of Card. seemed to have more powers (it saved them a lot) and she used it for different things.

[Martin]

I've seen just about every episode of Witch that they aired in the US (sans Will's B-day episode), and something still bugs me. Does Will ACTUALLY have a power of her own to fight with? Or is transforming the other 4 girls the only thing she's good for? I never did see her do anything else but bark orders yet. Except that one time she impaled one of the orc's face with a pan or something, but that doesnt count. I think it was the episode where Cornelia made the table dance (which was actually cool).

Dont get me wrong, I still like Will, she and Hay Lin are my favorite characters, but I would still like to see my favorite characters be usefull for something.
Anyway, according to the comics Will controls energy. This allows her to talk to appliances and make them work without a power source. She can turn invisible and shoot your standard pink energy beams.All of them can produce powerful beams with their own characteristics. Other than the tv show Hay Lin never uses her breath in the books and comics. In some cases they use their powers in a subtle way, which sometimes can be hilarious.
Not just Will but all of them can make themselves invisible. Further on they can teleport themselves to any desired spot, comparable with the Star Trek transporters or transwarp conduits. The last one is very likely when they set off to Candracar to meet the Oracle and the Congregation. Other special powers are: Hay Lin can feel/read information by holding objects. Taranee reads minds, Cornelia understands plants and trees. Irma has an immense kind of intuition or clair-reconaissance and Will can not just communicate with appliances but with animals too! And last but not least: they can establish telepathic contact with each other if they think they need to.

[darksteel19890]

All of them can produce powerful beams with their own characteristics. Other than the tv show Hay Lin never uses her breath in the books and comics. In some cases they use their powers in a subtle way, which sometimes can be hilarious.
Not just Will but all of them can make themselves invisible. Further on they can teleport themselves to any desired spot, comparable with the Star Trek transporters or transwarp conduits. The last one is very likely when they set off to Candracar to meet the Oracle and the Congregation. Other special powers are: Hay Lin can feel/read information by holding objects. Taranee reads minds, Cornelia understands plants and trees. Irma has an immense kind of intuition or clair-reconaissance and Will can not just communicate with appliances but with animals too! And last but not least: they can establish telepathic contact with each other if they think they need to.

Yep, forgot about all those. You read the comics? Cool! And a fellow ST fan! Yey!

[lilshowtout91]

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. In the show Will doesn't seem to use any other power except giving the guardians their powers by using the Heart of Candracar. She also just seems to like kicking butt without her powers(if she has any on the show) and also keeps getting captured, 3 times I think it's been. The show doesn't show any of her real powers.(which is the power of absolute energy and a lot of others.)Even if they haven't shown her with powers yet, we all do see her busting out of a cage of bricks with pink magic(the color of her magic) all around her during the theme song.Maybe they'll show her true powers soon.

I also liked the fact that only Hay Lin could fly instead of all of them. I guess though that in the show, the cetain circumstances require all of them to go a lot faster than walking.

They also used up about 9 episodes before they actually got to the events in the first book.It's a great show though.