I just realized how much they hate Scrappy Doo [Archive]

ktoriyama

03-20-2005, 11:29 PM

You JUST figured this out? Scrappy has always been one of the most hated characters in animation history. He embodied everything bad about sidekicks: he was added only to boost ratings, he was overused, he had an ugly character design and he was not funny at all. Scooby and Shaggy were the show's Comic Relief "sidekicks"...why did they need a sidekick of their own? First of all I always knew that they hated Scrappy, I was suprised at how much they hated Scrappy. They made a movie, he was the bad guy. And I finally realize that the Scrappy gets no respect clip, was no coincidence that Scrappy was used and not many of the animation icons of the classic era. And Scooby and Shaggy were the stars of the show, not Comic Relief "sidekicks", otherwise why would they be in every Scooby Doo ever made. Besides I always saw Scrappy as an addition to the gang not a sidekick.

03-20-2005, 11:32 PM

The character came at a time when the orignal Scooby Doo series jumped the shark to become nothing but over-the-top camp. Sure, a talking dog was already teetering into the realm of weirdness, but Scrappy was ably to walk and talk clearly. He brought in the element of cartoony characters and a more comedic sensibility to the show. No longer were the houses really spooky, they were just kind of creepy. The richly developed backgrounds from "Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?" were gone and the villians were always something silly. I don't think he's that bad, but if there has to be a scapegoat, why not him?

Merilee

03-21-2005, 12:54 AM

I hated the movie cause I think they got almost all the charatcers (with the notible exception of Shaggy and Scooby of course) 100% wrong! An he Scrappy cameo at the end was just adding injury to insult.
But I always loved Scrappy (hey, I baby-sit and he acts EXACTLY like a hyperactive 4 year old WOULD act! No joke, no exaggeration). I alwasy found him cute, just wide eyed innocence and a idolization of his wonderful uncle (Hey, who can blame the little guy?)
Also, once he was added, you notice THAT'S whe the gang started to get nicer? fred started to loosen up, Daphne wasn't getting into traps anymore..it's like Scrappy gave them what they were sorely lacking- PERSONALITIES!
For that alone, I love the little guy.
(hreal Scrappy, NOT that movie insult! Thank you.)
Merilee
:cool:

Yash

03-21-2005, 01:13 AM

Also, once he was added, you notice THAT'S whe the gang started to get nicer? fred started to loosen up, Daphne wasn't getting into traps anymore..it's like Scrappy gave them what they were sorely lacking- PERSONALITIES! Naw, he only made them seem better in comparison.

*is one of the many Scrappy Haters - crappy with an S*

AdamYJ

03-21-2005, 02:45 PM

I actually like Scrappy. Maybe it helps that I never was a fan of "Scooby-Doo, Where are You?". Going back to watch that show, it seemed like nothing more than formulas and stereotypes. All the kids were teenage stereotypes of different sorts that have survived even into the modern day (brawny leader, brainy plain jane, goofy slacker, etc). Every show was the usual story of a crook dressed in a fakey ghost suit trying to scare away the locals. Then there were Shaggy and Scooby themselves, whose overblown fear at the fakey ghosts made them less than appealing characters. Now Scrappy was a breathe of fresh air at that point. That was a little dog who actually had some cajones. He wasn't afraid of those fake ghosts and would actually step up and take them on. I mean, they were always dorks in masks and they never carried guns or anything. The only problem I could see with him was that he'd always try to drag in his wuss of an uncle. Just let the big coward run away, Scrappy. As time went on, the character of Scrappy actually went on to be a bit more tempered as the different shows progressed, to the point where he actually seemed to be a vital part of the group in "13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo".

Now mind you, just because I'm not a fan of "Scooby Doo, Where are You" doesn't mean I dislike Scooby Doo totally. There are a whole bunch of different variations of the concept that I do like. I just tend to lean toward the stuff that utilizes real ghosts and monsters or the stuff that steps away from the traditional "Scooby Gang" configuration. I'm quite fond of "13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo", "Scooby Doo on Zombie Island" and "Scooby Doo and the Witch's Ghost". Those movies seemed to give the gang some more personality and "13 Ghosts" gave us a different version of the gang, considering the lack of Fred and Velma and the inclusion of Flim-Flam. Also, when there are real monsters, Scooby and Shaggy's scaredy cat routine seems understandable.

Saotome2U

03-21-2005, 03:14 PM

Well, growing up and having Scooby-Doo as my [then] favorite cartoon at the time (and to this day still one of my all-time favs) I can verify my hatred of Scrappy-Doo as well. For a while, he had kinda grown on me (his 2nd voice being the best), but he was really just annoying. Yeah, Shaggy and Scooby were essentially the stars of the show, and that is why it was great to see their reactions and wildtakes from the supposed monsters chasing them. Mixing Scrappy in just made things more complicated because they tended to get in more trouble all because of him; even "life threatening" trouble. He essentially became a troublemaker about as much as the villains for the show. Each time, as a kid I kept wishing that they would sit back and just let him try to fight the bad guy as he had wanted, and getting the crap kicked outta him to teach him a lesson. I haven't seen either of the live-action movies yet, but I definitely want to and will, but despite my hatred of Scrappy, I don't agree in making him the true bad guy for the movie. That goes well against the storyline of the show. I wouldn't have minded Scrappy making a cameo appearance, but as for being THE bad guy is a bit much -- he's Scooby's nephew for goodness sake.

The concept behind 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo was good, but I can't say the actual turnout of the show was good. I despised Flim Flam, too. I could get more into detail about the animation and the obligatory comedy skits that gave off the "show within a show" stuff, but no need.

Most true Scooby-Doo fans will agree in saying that Scrappy was the worst thing to hit the series, although there are few fans who actually do like him. The fact that CN and Boomerang hardly ever show[ed] the Scrappy years for Scooby-Doo is an indication of how he isn't really welcomed, not to mention the bumps that have had him in it. My favorite still being the Blair Witch parody they did a few years ago:

(Daphne running in the woods, avoiding trees, screaming and yelling with the camera chasing her, in black & white)
Daphne: AAHHH!!! *gasping for air*
Cameraman: Daphne!!
Daphne: No...stay away!
Cameraman: Wait, Daphne wait....it's just Scrappy.
Daphne: *gasp, pant* I know.... (still running away as the camera follows)

Prism

03-21-2005, 04:27 PM

I guess it depends on what type of Scooby Doo people like. Personally I hated the bland mysteries and countless gueststars in the 60's/70's version and enjoyed the 80's Scooby better. Reason is because the monsters were real and it was no longer the same generic,bland,recycled stories. Scrappy was never a bad character,just a scapegoat who doesn't deserve the bashing. Then again, I'm one of those people who prefer the 'Scooby clones' to Scooby Doo itself so I know I'm an oddball.

Eric B

03-21-2005, 08:28 PM

He embodied everything bad about sidekicks: No, I think in many ways, be was the least bad of the sidekicks. He came at a time when all the major shows were getting sidekicks, such as Gleek, Godzookey, Baby Plas and Fang Puss. Those shows could have done much better with tough them; and they were still new when the character was added. Some like Gleek were far more troublesome. Scrappy got all of the negative attention later on (but not initially) because Scooby obviously was the leading show, and therefore Scrappy remained much longer than those other sidekicks., and then we got into this nostalgic kick where we valued the pre-Scrappy series.

Scooby and Shaggy were the show's Comic Relief "sidekicks"...why did they need a sidekick of their own? If one really wants to be a purist; originally; they weren't "comedy relief sidkicks; but did become this in the Scooby Doo Show era immediately preceding Scrappy. That is why I don't like that period that much; and wonder why in two features now (one animated and one live action) that is the period they seem to draw on the most). As cookieS said: this was when
the orignal Scooby Doo series jumped the shark to become nothing but over-the-top camp.Where before, the gang was more united in solving the cases; and we had a more even slit of Fred and Daphne, and Shaggy, Velma and Scooby; now; Fred and both the girls stayed together (Velma and Dapnhe generally could have been played by one character!), and did almost all the solving; which Shaggy and Scooby became --just as was said-- comedy relief sidekicks. They were only good to be the bait for the monsters; and it was all about them and their cowarly tricks to get away. (there was always an element of this in the show; but now it completely dominated the characters).
So it made sense to give them a new sidekick, (who filled the role Fred and Velma earlier filled by keeping them from running away and making them face the villains) and eventually get rid of Fred and the girls, and the mystery, and have a comedy chase show. But of course; it did gradually circle back around to the mystery and original gang.

Also, once he was added, you notice THAT'S whe the gang started to get nicer? fred started to loosen up, Daphne wasn't getting into traps anymore That occurred because when it was just Daphne, Shaggy, and the dogs; whe had to take on Velma's role as the intelligent female. When Fred and Velma would visit; they were guests, though they did resume their roles as the leaders.

Every show was the usual story of a crook dressed in a fakey ghost suit trying to scare away the locals. Then there were Shaggy and Scooby themselves, whose overblown fear at the fakey ghosts made them less than appealing characters. Now Scrappy was a breathe of fresh air at that point. That was a little dog who actually had some cajones. He wasn't afraid of those fake ghosts and would actually step up and take them on. I mean, they were always dorks in masks and they never carried guns or anything. True. It gave the series some variety.

As time went on, the character of Scrappy actually went on to be a bit more tempered as the different shows progressed And this is what no one seems to realize. By the time Daphne came back; he would even back down if the monster growled loud enough. But the haters all seem to be stuck on the first season; where I'll admit he was more bratty and naive.

The fact that CN and Boomerang hardly ever show[ed] the Scrappy years for Scooby-Doo is an indication of how he isn't really welcomed They have always shown the Scrappy years in their rotation. Generally; it is the first two seasons they really concentrate on; understandably. Then, we see the movies a lot. The least shown seem to be the Scooby Doo Show (thankfully, IMO), and then; the 13 Ghosts.

ktoriyama

03-21-2005, 11:13 PM

Woah, someone else who likes the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo. I catch that every Friday at 5:00, and I tape it. Interesting hearing your comments, because I never watch Scooby Doo when it originally came on, in fact I just watched sometime after CN had just started, but before they had their own shows, and were showing golden oldies. So of all the Scooby Doo I saw I liked 13 Ghosts the best because stopping the ghosts actually meant something. Some crooks wasn't going to get richer, the world was going to end. I just wish they would end it, properly.

Merilee

03-22-2005, 12:51 AM

Ah, someone else who doesn't like 'Scooby Doo Show'. Yeah, I hated tat show, mostly for the reasons you said, Fred took BOTH girls, who basically were there as sidekick to HIM! Notice he never really gave them a CHOICE who to go with, just said, 'I'll take THE GIRLS.' So genetic, THE GIRLS, like he forgot their names! And said GIRLS were just following him like a couple of puppies.
Also, you notice Velma got a bit snottier in this series? So much so that sometimes ya just wanted to slap her silly!
Yeah, Shaggy and Scooby were picked on even more by the other three and seemed only looked upon as the bait, nothing more. At least Scrappy showed them respect and love.
Scrappy may have been annoying at first, but hey, in a way most four-year olds can be. But over the years he DID mature, and the love he had for Shag and Scoob never died, which you gotta admit, was touching, hate him or not.
That's why I like Scrap and hate Scooby Doo Show.
Merilee
:cool:

Eric B

03-22-2005, 01:15 PM

That was Pat Steven's version of Velma. Yeah; she really did change the character, and it just wasn't the same anymore. This also greatly helped to ruin the show, since Velma and her dialogue were always a big part of it. Towards the end of the first Scrappy season; a new voice; Maria Frumkin, took over, and she was a little better, but still not the same. The BJ Ward Velma also did nothing for me. Mindy Cohn now is somewhat better (but till sounds a little like Stevens); but when the original voice returned in Vampire Rock and the Moster of Mexico; that was the return of the true Velma.

Scythemantis

03-22-2005, 03:25 PM

Also, when there are real monsters, Scooby and Shaggy's scaredy cat routine seems understandable.

Yeah, since I love monsters more than anything I always used to be disappointed by them all being fake. I kinda wondered where such a concept even originated...did they just make all the monsters phony so younger viewers wouldn't be scared?

Eric B

03-22-2005, 06:47 PM

Perhaps so.
That makes me wonder; given that the original "Mysteries Five" concept was rejected as "too scary"; perhaps it had real monsters.
If the monsters in Scooby were real; that would change the whole premise from that of crime solving. Since we had just come out of the "detectives vs. spies" era; a new crime solving format, but with violence toned down; was the next logical step. "ghostbusters" sucking up real ghosts with vacuspooks just wasn't thought of at that time; or if that's what Mysteries Five was, it was seen as too scary. By Thirteen Ghosts; public consciosness had changed. Meanwhile,the Scary Scooby Funnies (the short episides with real monsters and no gang) was basically a return to the older cartoon format of HB in the 50's and 60's; and to some extent; even the golden age of theatrical shorts.

AdamYJ

03-22-2005, 11:03 PM

If the monsters in Scooby were real; that would change the whole premise from that of crime solving. Since we had just come out of the "detectives vs. spies" era; a new crime solving format, but with violence toned down; was the next logical step.
You see, I never really saw it as a crime-solving show. As a crime solving show, the idea of a crook pretending to be a ghost or monster would make an interesting premise for one episode. Otherwise, they should just be tackling regular crimes and mysteries. To me, it was a monster show that had the gall of reminding us at the end of each episode that monsters weren't real (while turning a blind eye to the idea of talking dogs). They could have still have had shadowy figures and complex capers to foil without the whole "Oh no, it's the Electric Phantom!" thing thrown in.

John Pannozzi

03-23-2005, 03:43 PM

My opinions on Scrappy-Doo: I like Scrappy, but I also like Scrappy being made fun of. In several episodes of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law (a show I've only seen 2 episodes of so far but I really enjoy and I will pick the DVD set when I have enough and no higher priorities) they have Scrappy's body, seemingly dead, as a running gag. That's a bit too distasteful IMHO, but I like the shots taken at Scrappy in the first l-a S-D film. In the director's commentary they specifically stated that Scrappy's wrongdoings in the film were the cause of him being possessed by the Daemon Raitis (sic?). I don't think they mangled the gang too bad in the movie. I really liked Velma (maybe it's because I really like lesbians and I've met some lesbians on the internet and they're really nice. I'm a straight guy, BTW), Daphne's character development made sense (If I got kipnapped very often, I'd try to learn to defend myself) and while they did make Fred into a bit of an egotistic jerk, Fred didn't really much of a personality in the old cartoons.

Eric B

03-23-2005, 04:54 PM

I didn't know Harvey Birdman took other shots at Scrappy beside the Scooby episode where they had Avenger snatch him away.

In the original series; Fred was like a "perfect" specimen of "manhood"; so in today's cynical society; that has to be picked apart as unreal; so hence makeing him a jerk. (Beginning with the totally ironic "look what he had grown from" premise of A Pup Named Scooby).

They had thought of writing Velma as a lesbian in the movie; but didn't actually go through with it.

To me, it was a monster show that had the gall of reminding us at the end of each episode that monsters weren't real (while turning a blind eye to the idea of talking dogs). They always did leave some unexplained "supernatural" occurreces in there; like the haunted floating bone; or (yesterday's showing) all of Phylis Diller's ghostly husbands. The Jeannie episode was unique in that it featured an acutal "real" supernatural villain. So there was always some variety.

ktoriyama

03-23-2005, 05:19 PM

I really liked Velma (maybe it's because I really like lesbians and I've met some lesbians on the internet and they're really nice.
What does that have to do with anything? And what is this Mysteries Five I hear about, a pilot or something for Scooby Doo.

Eric B

03-23-2005, 06:05 PM

That was the original concept. It featured five kids and a different dog; but was eventually changed to Scooby Doo, Where Are You?

Merilee

03-24-2005, 12:57 AM

I really liked Velma (maybe it's because I really like lesbians and I've met some lesbians on the internet and they're really nice. I'm a straight guy, BTW),
Yes, lesbians are nice, my half-neice is a lesbian, so I mean no disrespect to any and all lesbians when I say this...but come ON, people, Velma is NOT a lesbian! There was no proof of it, and in 'What's New, Scooby Doo' they've been trying and TRYING to prove time and time again she's not gay.
Lok, it's not right to assume someone is gay just by th way that they dress or that she's not seen with boys.
Hey, there's no proof and I do think the writers of 'What's New' are trying to prove she's not gay.
Merilee
:cool:

Mister Intensity

03-24-2005, 07:42 AM

Interesting that many of the Scrappy haters are rewriting history to justify their hatred for Scrappy. I don't mind if people do not like Scrappy but please get the facts about the show straight when talking about the character. The short funnies didn't come about upon the introduction to Scrappy, it came about because the mystery solving format was stale. Scrappy was a last ditch effort to save Scooby-Doo because the show was getting stale. The last year or two of episodes before Scrappy's introduction were boring, due to some of the reasons mentioned in this thread (I do think that the earlier episodes of The Scooby-Doo Show or the Scooby-Doo and Dynomutt episodes had some of the strongest episodes of the series but I do concur that the Scooby All-Stars episodes were terrible).

Scrappy did save the show and ratings went up. Personally, I'm not crazy about the first two or three Scrappy years, mostly due the characters being annoying and little variation in the situations but once the writers found a balance and went beyond one-note characterizations -- like Scrappy having more common sense and Shaggy and Scooby displaying more intelligence -- the shows became stronger. When talking about the Scooby and Scrappy, talk about the show as it aired not the show that you think it is.

Scrappy didn't destroy Scooby-Doo, in fact, he made it last longer. Hate Scrappy all you want but get your facts about the show straight.

Mister Intensity

Scythemantis

03-24-2005, 02:21 PM

Well, the "shark demon" was real too. That is, there was a frozen specimen of a real one that the villain hid when he pretended to be the demon come to life.

This is off-topic, but I rarely post here, and I might as well bring this up before I forget all about it - a magazine ("Toons", a special publication from wizard) once claimed in its "101 cartoon facts" feature that a japanese studio once tried to prove that it could do "american style animation" by sending HB a pilot where the Scooby gang fights robots in a futuristic city, which was immediately rejected.

Eric B

03-24-2005, 02:35 PM

That was basically a copy of "The Frozen Fright" caveman from the second season. In those cases; the dead specimen may be real; but the "live" version is phony. (the mummy, as well)
In later mysteries such as "the Ghosts of the Ancient Astronauts", and some others; they began to throw in real "live" versions of the phony characters as closing gags; as well as some whole episodes involving "real" monsters (Halloween Hassle in Dracula's Castle, Wizards & Warlocks, Scoobygeist, Who's Minding the Monster, Scooby's Peep Hole Pandemonium, etc). Cute, and a good way of adding some variety. (and back when the animation, voices and music style were still classic HB/Scooby) And this was all in the Scrappy era; which is why it shouldn't be trashed.

ktoriyama

03-24-2005, 02:57 PM

...a japanese studio once tried to prove that it could do "american style animation" by sending HB a pilot where the Scooby gang fights robots in a futuristic city, which was immediately rejected.That there was of course an automatic disqualification. There was so much wrong. What Scooby had magic power of speed, and Fred had his flashing white teeth.

And to stay on topic, you think there is any chance that WB will ever release the Scrappy years. So far they have been going steady, Scooby Doo where are you, first and second season, then they just realeased Sccoby Doo Movies, even advertising it. You think they will stop before they go that far?

Saotome2U

03-24-2005, 03:10 PM

That would be interesting, Ktoriyama if WB brought in Scrappy for the "new" era. However, it wouldn't be a successful thing to do. While yes, it is true that the introduction of Scrappy prolonged Scooby-Doo on through the mid-80s. But if you think about it, considering the backlash in the hatred of Scrappy, I highly doubt it happens. Yeah yeah, I know, some people do like Scrappy...but MOST Scooby-Doo fans do not like him. If they did bring him on, it would probably be for one of these reasons:

1. a brief cameo, one episode/movie thing
2. completely change his personality as they have with Fred

With each new Scooby production that has been since Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island back in '98, here 7 yrs. later we haven't seen Scrappy anywhere except as the villain in the movie, and as the butt of jokes by CN.

Eric B

03-24-2005, 04:05 PM

I think he was talking about releasing the Scrappy years on DVD; not making new episodes with him.
The fact that they do play them so much would make it seem that that would not be that far out. And they do have a few of the shorts tacked on to the older Scooby DVD/video's (I know "Alaskan King Coward" was on one of the "Winter/Christmas" themed video's. Plus Nutcracker Scoob was one of the earlier videos).
Thankfully, as we see in this thread, the tide seems to be turning, and there are more who defend Scrappy; other than just me and Mr. Intensity.:)

Mister Intensity

03-24-2005, 04:15 PM

Why not bring Scrappy to the What's New era? Those who hate Scrappy tend to be twenty or thirty-somethings who either grew up with the show or heard about the Scrappy hate secondhand and I doubt they are the ones who watch the current incarnation of the show or buy the DTVs. It's the kids who watch the show and buy all of the merchandise and I doubt that they have the same feelings about Scrappy as our contemporaries. I noticed there are several episodes of What's New where Scooby plays the "Uncle" role without referring to Scrappy. If they are going to do such episodes, why not just put in Scrappy since it makes more sense. They flirted with it so why not go all the way.

Mister Intensity

Saotome2U

03-24-2005, 05:16 PM

Hm, well I will admit, you do make a very interesting and valid point. Being one of the 20-something year olds who grew up with Scooby (and later Scrappy) I must admit, just from my love of Scooby-Doo in general, I'm curious to see how they would bring Scrappy into the fold, and what the outcome would be of it.

My thing is, given the creators, producers, etc. of What's New ..., I'm sure they are well aware of the backlash against Scrappy, as well as some may like/hate him. I wouldn't doubt they are toying with the idea. But, again -- despite the fact that the current viewers of What's New ... aren't necessarily the viewers of old, doesn't mean that bringing Scrappy around will make it a success. As a kid growing up with Scooby-Doo, I didn't like Scrappy then, so it may be a coin toss for the kids' reception of Scrappy now...

...but nonetheless, I'm curious...even if he were just there for one season, which I could tolerate.............maybe.:shrug:

Prism

03-24-2005, 05:44 PM

Scrappy didn't ruin Scooby Doo. And this is coming from someone who grew up watching Scooby Doo. Before Scrappy there was Scooby Dum,Scooby Dee and others from the Scooby clan. But as I've stated before, I prefer the later versions to the earlier ones regarding Scooby.

Eric B

03-24-2005, 07:57 PM

I would say wait until the hatred blows completely over before adding him to any new cartoons. (For a moment; we did think he was coming back when seeing the name of the episode "Uncle Scooby and Antarctica"--which was like a rehash of the Scoooby and Scrappy episode "South Pole Vault" anyway).
What I hope they will do in the meantime is use this third live action movie to clean up that mess from the first and reconcile Scrappy to the gang. I have even drawn up the concept here: http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/rex.png
(Someone mentioned something about some "demon". (If that was in there; I missed it; --was in a state of shock!). If they use that idea to redeem him; fine). I would say the rest of you who would like to see this should write the studio if it is not too late already.

As I have pointed out on my site; It seems many of the haters are younger fans born around the time Scrappy appeared or later, who were not alive or were too young to remember the series when new and the changes leading up to Scrappy. So they see a 1978 episode as being as good as or even apart of the original "Where Are You?", (they all played side by side in syndication, and all would be equally "original" to them) and of course, Scrappy (then dominating the network shows) would be seen as ruining it all. This age difference would also explain why hatred of Scrappy is so rampant now, yet not reflected in the original ratings when it first aired. I grew up through the whole thing, watching from the very beginning, and Scrappy was nothing more than a later cartoon fad. I consider myself a "Scooby purist", favoring the first four seasons like everyone else, but later on, when I saw all the older episodes side by side in syndication, the inferiority of later ones stood out, and it became clear that Scrappy actually helped breathe new life into the show.

and2

04-17-2005, 02:08 PM

I liked 13 ghost and the scooby, scrappy, shaggy swhow (the one more inclined to comedy) the original was always boring to me and therefor i thnk that scrappy was really good for the series. Two questins:

was scooby doo show the one where they had gests all the time like the globetroters and Batman and robin.

they are showing The 13 Ghosts? When?

Zero-V

04-17-2005, 02:35 PM

was scooby doo show the one where they had gests all the time like the globetroters and Batman and robin.?

The All New Scooby-Doo Movies was the second series of the franchise, it was stretched to an hour (a rarity) and featured crossovers from numerous movie, telivision, and comic stars, the only flaw about that was Laurel and Hardy were long dead by the time they appeared.

But on topic, Scrappy sucked, he ruined the original concept, if you like non-senseical slapstic crap which once featured Scoobys' sister giving birth to Scrappy in a maternity ward, then go ahead.

and2

04-17-2005, 03:40 PM

Thanks I thought It was scooby doo movies but i wasnt 100% sure

HannaBarberaFan

04-17-2005, 03:50 PM

Love him or hate him.....I take the FIFTH on MY sentiments here....the pup is nonetheless an INDELIBLE component of SCOOBY-DOO mythos & legacy..

Anthonynotes

04-17-2005, 03:57 PM

As a kid, Scrappy never bothered me... I thought he was amusing.

As an adult, I'm indifferent toward Scrappy (though think the "Shaggy Scooby and Scrappy running from real monsters for six minutes straight" shorts were the low point in the "Scooby" franchise), though prefer just seeing the "traditional" gang.

As for his ratings: Scrappy in the 80's (after those six-minute chase shorts) became, along with Daphne, one of the two main "mystery-solvers" in the then-"gang" (while Shaggy and Scooby did what they do best...)---guess one reason he stuck around (though wonder why they didn't bring Fred back besides "Nutcracker Scoob"/the episode with Scooby's birthday party), along with the Silver Age Superman-esque trend in the 70's and 80's of seeing various Doo-family relatives showing up...

Merilee

04-17-2005, 04:33 PM

they are showing The 13 Ghosts? When?
It's being shown late Fridays/ early Saturdays at 5:30 AM.
Merilee
:cool:

Eric B

04-17-2005, 04:58 PM

The Scary Scooby funnies episodes were boring to me when they first came out. It was four years later when they were rebroadcast (with that new title) after the new show where Fred and Velma occasionally came back; that I took notice of Scrappy's antics (which I had never paid attention to before); and it was funny. That's when I got into Scrappy. What it seems happened, is that people, like me watched the first season (with the whole gang), the stories were weak, and Scrappy was naive and bratty, the voice was bad, and he really couln't take care of himself; so they developed this bias against him. But I saw that he had been improved, and really could fight the bad guys and save the others, so it was funny.

Also, since the question mentioned "the Scooby Doo Show"; that was basically the syndicated package for the "Scooby Doo/Dynomutt Show" Scooby episodes (and uses a modified version of the opening from that show), plus the two "Laffalympics/Allstars" show Scooby episodes.

Zero-V

04-17-2005, 09:23 PM

Browsing through the Scrappy websites, there are a great deal of inaccurate reasons as to why people hate him, the ratings were naturally solid during his tenure, but the stories insulted the general expectations of Scoobys' format rather than his character, his character was fine, so was Shaggys, but they were only a part of what made the original seasons work overall.

I blame the networks for threatning to cancel the series a billion times unless they reformated it, I blame them for Scrappy, the devil must always have his advocate, I actually don't rely on psuedo-facts to know what I beleive is true, that he WAS annoying

And of course he could very well have become who he was in the movie, he never thought rationally in his intial apperances, Scooby had to always bail him out, he was always barly taught a lesson, he always thought they were bailing him out because they were concerned, not because he was neccersarily wrong, he saw them as the cowards, and clearly showed that in the movie.

Eric B

04-18-2005, 02:03 PM

But he always loved his uncle Scooby, and wanted to be just like him. Not the coward part; but then remember; the original premise of Scooby was his overall bravery despite his great fears. This was somethign Scrappy obviously saw in him, (for Scooby to have lasted so long and continue solving so many cases over the years) though by the time he came around, both Scooby and Shaggy had become true yellow-bellied cowards (which is one thing I didn't like about the Scooby Doo Show era).
I would say the bratty first season Scrappy, who was much more self-centered, could have become the movie caricature (even down to the peeing!) But the second and third season Scrappy was less bratty, not really craving attention as much, but more devoted to Scooby, and if Scooby was too chicken, he could then take care of the monster himself (ever see Soth Seas Scare).
Of course, the fourth season and on, as was said; he became the new Freddy, and the focus was back on Shaggy and Scooby as the comedic cowards. But of course; the movie made Freddy into a totally unrespectable person, and then when you take into account the implied drug references of Shaggy and Scooby, they were obviously altering the characters into very negative personalities; and that is just from the cynicism of the day; I believe.

Zero-V

04-18-2005, 02:46 PM

I would say the bratty first season Scrappy, who was much more self-centered, could have become the movie caricature (even down to the peeing!) But the second and third season Scrappy was less bratty, not really craving attention as much, but more devoted to Scooby, and if Scooby was too chicken, he could then take care of the monster himself (ever see Soth Seas Scare).
Of course, the fourth season and on, as was said; he became the new Freddy, and the focus was back on Shaggy and Scooby as the comedic cowards. But of course; the movie made Freddy into a totally unrespectable person
Actually, "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" made Fed an obnoxious character to begin with, if you watch the movies a considerable deal, you can tell the writer, James Gunn, is a huge fan of "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo", as the town of Coolsville and Fred's arrogrant character traits came from that series.

Again, with Scrappy becoming the Fred like character, that further implies he was developing a superiority complex above all the others and wanted to not just emulate Scooby, but be better than Mystery Inc, as he probably thought his uncle was the backbone of the group, but never got his due. His anger at Scooby in the movie was probably because Scooby backed the gang up in throwing him out, making him look more cowardly in another sense, that he never "stood up and demanded credit" for some of his own accomplishments.

Eric B

04-19-2005, 01:57 PM

I was going to mention againt hat A Pup Named Scooby was the start of the revision of Fred, as well as the other characters. (Daphne in the movies retains some of her snottiness from Pup; but with the "dangerprone damsel in distress" characteristics mixed in.)
The character of Scrappy in the movie simply projects what the haters see him as, and magnified his attention-grabbing brattiness from the first season. "He took over the Scooby world, so now he logically wants to take over the whole world". My wife, who is basically critical of him too, tried to explain it this way. He looked up to his uncle in the beginning; but he eventually realized how chicken he truly was, then he lost respect, and then tried to take over. On the first episode of 13 ghosts, when Flim Flam says "only someone not in his right mind would open the chest", Daphne then thinks of Shaggy and Scooby, and then Scrappy says "uh, oh"; agreeing with Daphne's implication that Shaggy and Scooby were not in their right mind. This I did not like; because once again; Shaggy and Scooby were the fools again --just like before Scrappy, or really, even worse! (and of course, they were opening the chest right as they spoke). But she commented "see; his view of Scooby has changed".
Of course; that was not because Scrappy had changed for the worse; but because they had truly made Shaggy and Scooby into idiots.
The original Scooby was truly the ultimately though inwardly brave hero that Scrappy looked up to.

I wonder if this James Gunn was one of these young adult Scrappy haters who tinks that A Pup Named Scooby resured the show just because it was the first new thing with out Scrappy. does he have all the creative control over things like this? I not too long ago wrote to someone out there about the next movie, asking them to undue this mess from the first (Don't remember if it was him).

Mister Intensity

04-19-2005, 03:14 PM

I never did like how the Demon Chest was opened in Thirteen Ghosts. It was one of those out of charcter moments that was only there to serve the plot. Even at their most moronic and cowardly (I never liked the "Shaggy and Scooby are stupid" charcterization) they would have never opened the chest because it looked spooky and they want to stay away from spooky things. I always personally rationalized it by saying they were under a spell and that they had to open the Demon Chest because if it wasn't the mystical energies periodically builds up to the point where it would have destroyed the world, however, the demons themselves are a threat so they had to be put back in. It made the coincidences of the first episode easier to follow and fix the main flaw on what otherwise was a good series (interestingly it was originally cancelled after the first run of episodes, so while it became popular afterward, it tanked originally). The Scooby is a nervous wreck characterization actually did work for me since he pretty much been chased by monsters, real and fake, almost nonstop for many, many years.

Back to Scrappy, the smartest thing the producers did was soften the character after that first season. While I do believe Scrappy was pretty annoying during his second season -- personally his monster splating in South Seas Monster was crinch inducing because it made him effective and made Shaggy and Scooby's concern to be unfounded -- the third season on, the producers and writers found the right balance of brattiness and common sense. Scrappy haters should look at how the character evolved and not think about him in terms of his first and second seasons. Don't confuse your opinion on the change in the show's direction and blame it on Scrappy.

Mister Intensity

Zero-V

04-19-2005, 03:38 PM

Scrappy haters should look at how the character evolved and not think about him in terms of his first and second seasons. Don't confuse your opinion on the change in the show's direction and blame it on Scrappy.

Mister Intensity
I acknowledge Scrappy evovled with the series, but I still hate him, what's wrong with thrashing him despite knowing that? I found him genually irritating. Big deal. Get over it, you Scrappy lovers take the bashing way too seriously

A.Magik

04-19-2005, 06:45 PM

My wife, who is basically critical of him too, tried to explain it this way. He looked up to his uncle in the beginning; but he eventually realized how chicken he truly was, then he lost respect, and then tried to take over. On the first episode of 13 ghosts, when Flim Flam says "only someone not in his right mind would open the chest", Daphne then thinks of Shaggy and Scooby, and then Scrappy says "uh, oh"; agreeing with Daphne's implication that Shaggy and Scooby were not in their right mind. This I did not like; because once again; Shaggy and Scooby were the fools again --just like before Scrappy, or really, even worse! (and of course, they were opening the chest right as they spoke). But she commented "see; his view of Scooby has changed".
Of course; that was not because Scrappy had changed for the worse; but because they had truly made Shaggy and Scooby into idiots.
The original Scooby was truly the ultimately though inwardly brave hero that Scrappy looked up to.
That didn't mean Scrappy lost respect in his Uncle. Scrappy still retains his affections for Scooby in the 13 Ghosts. In one episode (the "Days of Future Past" one), Scrappy is still praising his uncle, and Scooby proves it by saving the team twice in the episode. Also, one has to consider that Scooby, for all of his cowardice, is a responsible father-figure to his nephew. Whenever Scrappy gets in trouble, Scooby always comes to the rescue. Scrappy knowing his Uncle isn't a genius doesn't affect that respect.

Y'know, the only thing I liked about Scrappy was the parent-child relationship he had with Scooby. When I was younger, I wished they did an episode or two with just the two of them and no Shaggy (Let thee without sin cast the first stone...). Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

A.Magik

Eric B

04-20-2005, 04:51 PM

The first Scary Scooby Funnies episode was the closest you get to that. That is when the alien kidnaps Shaggy, and Scooby and Scrappy have to get him back.
I; still being tired of the "Scooby and Shaggy as the clowns" phenomena from the late 70's though the new pairups in the '83 and '84 seasons should have been more Scooby/Scrappy and Shaggy/Daphne (especially since I identified with Shaggy and wanted to see him with Dapnhe more, but that's another discusion). After all; it was still "the [New] Scooby and Scrappy"; not the New Scooby and Shaggy! But they actually did this in a few of them. The Mark of Scooby episode was one; where Daphne and Shaggy were captured; and it was El Scoobo and Scrappito that had to work together to rescue them.
(this BTW was a story with no phony ghosts, but a real villain; retaining the crimesolving premise, and was thus true to the format. This gave Scooby more variety,and that is why this period should not be trashed just because of Scrappy; who was as was said, not much more than a new Fred anyway).

PS. It is the Scrappy haters who take him too seriously. Just go to jumptheshark.com and see how he made people stop watching TV, and ruined their whole childhood, and stuff.:eek:

A.Magik

04-21-2005, 04:38 PM

The first Scary Scooby Funnies episode was the closest you get to that. That is when the alien kidnaps Shaggy, and Scooby and Scrappy have to get him back. Don't forget the final Scooby-Shaggy-Scrappy series before Daphne returned (the one with the Uncle Yabba episodes, where TPTB thought Scrappy could carry the show by himself without his other Uncle), which also gave some emphasis of Scooby and Scrappy togetherness, like the one where Shaggy thought he was 'Super Teen.' (those also attempted to tweak the "Clowns" characterization in having the gang actually return to detective work).

I; still being tired of the "Scooby and Shaggy as the clowns" phenomena from the late 70's though the new pairups in the '83 and '84 seasons should have been more Scooby/Scrappy and Shaggy/Daphne (especially since I identified with Shaggy and wanted to see him with Dapnhe more, but that's another discusion). After all; it was still "the [New] Scooby and Scrappy"; not the New Scooby and Shaggy! But they actually did this in a few of them. The Mark of Scooby episode was one; where Daphne and Shaggy were captured; and it was El Scoobo and Scrappito that had to work together to rescue them.
(this BTW was a story with no phony ghosts, but a real villain; retaining the crimesolving premise, and was thus true to the format. This gave Scooby more variety,and that is why this period should not be trashed just because of Scrappy; who was as was said, not much more than a new Fred anyway).
Wasn't there another one, concerning a car show monster, where said creature makes a getaway with Shaggy and Daphne as hostages, forcing the dogs to use some crazy vehicle to rescue them?

A.Magik

Mister Intensity

04-21-2005, 07:25 PM

Don't forget the final Scooby-Shaggy-Scrappy series before Daphne returned (the one with the Uncle Yabba episodes, where TPTB thought Scrappy could carry the show by himself without his other Uncle), which also gave some emphasis of Scooby and Scrappy togetherness, like the one where Shaggy thought he was 'Super Teen.' (those also attempted to tweak the "Clowns" characterization in having the gang actually return to detective work).

Wasn't there another one, concerning a car show monster, where said creature makes a getaway with Shaggy and Daphne as hostages, forcing the dogs to use some crazy vehicle to rescue them?

A.Magik
The Scooby, Scrappy, and Yabba series is my favorite from the post-Scrappy era because Shaggy and Scooby weren't portrayed as idiots and there was more variety in the stories besides the "chase format" thus we saw different sides of the characters. It would have been nice to see Scooby and Shaggy appeared with Yabba but at least the Yabba stories were a change of pace.

That car show monster episode was one of my favorites from the New Scooby Doo and Scrappy Doo Show. One scene that's often edited from the syndicated version had Scooby, while driving the clean-up truck, scrub a few "Little Rascal" types clean. Scooby and Scrappy driving the truck the rescue was one of the moments where you could see why Scrappy idolized his Unca Scooby.

Mister Intensity

Eric B

04-21-2005, 11:22 PM

I had had the car show episode in mind too.
scooby and scrappy drove some hyped up garbage truck that was actually in the show. In the background, you can see references to Pacman on the store windows.

The show with Yabba (the fourth season of Scrappy) was very interesting. In fact; it was this series that got me interested in new Scooby episodes. (I was uninterested in all the earlier Scrappy shows before that, and just lived on the newly syndicated older shows). It was a gradual circling back around to the mystery format; as half of the Scooby episodes were the Uncle Fearless detective agency, which naturally shifted things back to crimesolving. Out of those, a few even restored the crook in phony disguise routine, but most were "real indentity" villains, or even supervillain types where the true identity was irrelevant (Cat Lady, etc). The other half were like a continuation of the previous Scary Scooby Funnies; but with a definite "teen situation" theme (dating, outings, the teen center, sports, etc). Scrappy had begun to be toned down a lot by this time. He really needed to stand up and splat some of those bullies, like the one who threatened Shaggy (as a fortuneteller) to impress his girl; or the guy and dog who threatened to tie both Shaggy and Scooby into knots. He was a letdown by then. But it was no longer about him anymore. In the Cat Lady, and one of the Yabba episodes, you can hear him scream "help" for the first time ever. In Runaway Scrappy, he is a self-pitying crybaby. He was clearly becoming soft, and was no longer funny, to me.

Gary L Thompson

05-03-2005, 04:21 PM

My own take on Scrappy has been generally that he was basically a good character whose main failing was his choice of agent, he never had a chance to appear on a "Scooby Doo" show that was genuinely good. It's a pity that the Scooby movies couldn't have concentrated on distilling and enhancing all the good that was in the entirety of "Scooby Doo", instead of taking the crass road that is all-too-typical of Hollywood these days.

As per the argument that Scrappy was responsible for saving Scooby and keeping it on longer, I suppose a good counterargument would be that it would have been better to have allowed the show to RIP, and left the fond memories of the original show unsullied. On the other hand, afterlife in syndicated reruns was rare for SatAM shows, so Scrappy probably can be largely held responsible for the added episode count that gave "Scooby Doo" rerun potential. Without him, it's very possible those classics from the CBS years might have vanished outside of nostalgic memories....

Yeah, since I love monsters more than anything I always used to be disappointed by them all being fake. I kinda wondered where such a concept even originated...did they just make all the monsters phony so younger viewers wouldn't be scared?Interestingly, DC Comics took a similar approach in the early issues of their horror comics like "House of Mystery" (the ghost-breaking character of Dr. Thirteen was the epitome of this trend, at least until he met his Waterloo in the Phantom Stranger).

For the time, it was actually a well-conceived compromise between the traditional slapstick of Looney Tunes and early Hanna Barbara and the action cartoons of the 1960s. Sure, the ghosts and monsters may have been fakes, but before their eventual exposure, our gang were facing the real thing for all they knew. And Hanna Barbara kept the ominous atmosphere of its 1960s cartoons--sure, nothing really serious ever happened, but you always were left with a feeling that eventually something might.... After the ACT gutted the action cartoons of the 1960s, "Scooby Doo" basically chose the best means of entertaining which was available to it at the time. (And frankly, I think the crusaders against those action cartoons had a point, the late 1960s shows were little more than violence, looking at them now--with an occasional exception like "Jonny Quest" or "The Fantastic Four"--you see none of the depth of storytelling that you see today on a WB adaptation of DC Comics characters, or anime. Even the action shows on Disney and Nickleodian make the 1960s cartoon actioners look sick by comparison.) Of course, many of the virtues of the first "Scooby Doo" shows like the ominous atmosphere and character nuances were lost when the formula was reproduced over and over and over, both in subsequent Scooby seasons and in copycat shows that popped up all over the SatAM schedule.

Zechs

05-03-2005, 09:13 PM

I myself hated Scarppy I saw him as a bully trying to force Scooby to do things he wouldn't do, not to mention it seemed IMO that he was trying to piont out just how much of a coward Scooby was ( when we already knew that) As for the show I think the scrappy eps were the start of the fall of Scooby. IMO what killed the series is when they start to add and subtract charcters. Especially when they go rid of eveyone excpt for Shaggy, Scobby and scrappy.

Merilee

05-03-2005, 11:31 PM

Skeeter

05-06-2005, 11:25 PM

Back to Scrappy, the smartest thing the producers did was soften the character after that first season. While I do believe Scrappy was pretty annoying during his second season -- personally his monster splating in South Seas Monster was crinch inducing because it made him effective and made Shaggy and Scooby's concern to be unfounded -- the third season on, the producers and writers found the right balance of brattiness and common sense.
The change in Scrappy's voice was also a big factor in that change, IMHO. I've always preferred Don Messick's Scrappy to Lennie Weinreb's; Messick actually made Scrappy sound more like a kid, which technically he still was.

I acknowledge Scrappy evovled with the series, but I still hate him, what's wrong with thrashing him despite knowing that?

It's things like this that make me despise character bashers. It's the lowest form of bullying. Tell me, what's the point of insulting a fictional character, of doing things like devising painful ways for that character die? What does tormenting a character that's not real get you? Do you have such a low opinion of yourself, such low self-esteem that you have to tear apart someone that only exists in 2-D and celluloid to make yourself feel better?

-Kim

Eric B

05-07-2005, 03:55 PM

Please go post that on jumptheshark.com!

Zero-V

05-07-2005, 07:55 PM

It's the lowest form of bullying
No. Beating a child is the lowest common demeanour of bullying, bashing a poorly written piece of paper is not.

I doubt anyone barring you Scrappy lovers remotley care.

Do you have such a low opinion of yourself, such low self-esteem that you have to tear apart someone that only exists in 2-D and celluloid to make yourself feel better?

-KimBashing Scrappy, Rubix the Amazing Cube, or any other character despised has NOTHING to do with having a low opinion on yourself, it's about having an opinion

If you think I'm shallow and insecure just for having a strong opinion on a character I despise, sorry toots, but you don't know me at all. I'm MARRIED, I have a child on the way, so I fail to see why I should be insecure about that.

No matter how Scrappy fans like to paint it, opinions on Scrappy's negative traits (which FAR outweight his positive attributes) will be expressed in any fashion I, or others, deem appopriate and proper, you want to think that's callous and sad? Guess what? I think the fact you're taking a strong stand against MY OPINION and calling me "insecure" is "sad", not to mention pathetic.

I'M a living example of why you hate Scrappy haters? YOU are a living example of why some Scrappy fans are stuck-up, whiny, and ignorant.

We hate Scrappy's ass, and you can kiss mine. It's my opinion, call me anything you want, I know it probably makes YOU feel better:sad:

Skeeter

05-07-2005, 10:54 PM

Oh, I'm so sorry; a THOUSAND apologies! How long would you like me to grovel and beg for your forgiveness for even THINKING of offending you? [/sarcasm]

You can dislike Scrappy all you want. I'm not out to change your mind about how you feel about him. All I'm asking for is for people who don't like him not to be so vehement about it.

-Kim

Mister Intensity

05-08-2005, 11:05 AM

You can dislike Scrappy all you want. I'm not out to change your mind about how you feel about him. All I'm asking for is for people who don't like him not to be so vehement about it.

-Kim
Or at least make rational arguments -- i.e. not making facts up from thin air -- about your dislike.

Mister Intensity

Zero-V

05-08-2005, 02:04 PM

I've given some reasons earlier in the thread, I actually respect Scrappy fans when they give good, constructive reasons, but when they start attacking Scrappy haters and accusing them of being "shallow and self-loathing"....give me a flipping break

Umi

05-12-2005, 09:33 PM

Well I don't like Scrappy Doo... I mean, I don't like him at all. But in fact I know it's not "his" fault that SD and the 13 gosts or the series coming next where so... bad. I really like the original series (Scooby Doo where are you? - I'm mexican so I don't know the original name :P), but probably those weren't very good either... yet I like them *LOL*.

Anyway... I thought it was nice that Scrappy was the bad guy in the movie. Pretty cool *LOL* :general:

Umi

05-12-2005, 09:41 PM

Still; it was out of character; a projection of people's own feelings onto him; and the young kids who didn't have this bias could not understand it.Well, yeah but... c'mon, it's scooby doo, you don't need to be a genious to understand scooby doo. but yeah, there was A LOT of fan service, and it was a bad movie, but I had fun watching it :P it was nice. :zim:

Zero-V

05-12-2005, 10:03 PM

Well I don't like Scrappy Doo... I mean, I don't like him at all. But in fact I know it's not "his" fault that SD and the 13 gosts or the series coming next where so... bad.After "Thirteen Ghosts", Scooby vanished for a few years before returning with "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo", which thankfully gave the series it's mystery format and original characters back and disposed of Scrappy. Most fans credit that show for introducing the obnoxious character traits Fred displayed in the movies

And you represent the kind of Scooby-fan that, honestly, everyone really should act like, someone who does'nt give a toss about the "deapth" of the characters behind Scooby Doo, good or bad, it's an entertaining mystery show with classic comedic chase sequences, ruined by the decision to fix something that was'nt broken.

Umi

05-12-2005, 11:36 PM

And you represent the kind of Scooby-fan that, honestly, everyone really should act like, someone who does'nt give a toss about the "deapth" of the characters behind Scooby Doo, good or bad, it's an entertaining mystery show with classic comedic chase sequences, ruined by the decision to fix something that was'nt broken.Thank you, that's very kind! Well, I really don't think there's anything deep or complex about Scooby Doo. I mean, I do like it, but it's a veeeeeery simple comedy, there's nothing so spectacular about it :P, it's nice, it's funny and I like watching it. But it DID build the foundations of my love for the mistery, gosts and so-called creepy stories :P, because I could watch it when I was very young without getting scared. And seriously, I get scared very easily when I watch terror movies/series/whatever, it's a miracle that I didn't get scared when I watched 'The Ring 2' :p .