Josie and the Pussycats get Manga-fied

[Funkatron]

yet another Archie title going the Manga route: http://www.archiecomics.com/josies_house/manga/manga.jpg

Pics of the actual pages(so much better): http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28765

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I wish they wouldn't.

[Fatneck]

That's not official art, it can't be. It looks like they just grabbed someone's terrible fan art off the internet.

[Lord Dalek]

One wonders when Sonic the Hedgehog is promoted from "pseudo-manga" to "Manga in name only".

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

That's not official art, it can't be. It looks like they just grabbed someone's terrible fan art off the internet.
Uhhh, have you seen their Sabrina manga? :eek: :ack:

[Fatneck]

Uhhh, have you seen their Sabrina manga? :eek: :ack: No, and judging from your post I hope I never will.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

http://www.archiecomics.com/sabrina_manga/current/current.htm

Tadaa

[Duke]

Those heads look way too big for their bodies.

[Funkatron]

and this is different from manga how?? :p

I do agree they went crazy with the "Anime/manga=big heads" thing

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

With all the money Archie probably has, they could easily have went to Japan and hired some decent doujinshi artists for cheap.

[Fatneck]

http://www.archiecomics.com/sabrina_manga/current/current.htm

Tadaa Actually, that's not that bad. At least this artist has a sense of anatomy and proportion. I mean as stylized as manga styles can get the artists still have a sense of proportion/structure/anatomy. That Josie pic looked like it was done by somebody who just got their "How to Draw Manga" book.

[Funkatron]

Actually, that's not that bad. At least this artist has a sense of anatomy and proportion. I mean as stylized as manga styles can get the artists still have a sense of proportion/structure/anatomy. That Josie pic looked like it was done by somebody who just got their "How to Draw Manga" book. You know, you could be right...

[Sandoz]

Actually, that's not that bad. At least this artist has a sense of anatomy and proportion. I mean as stylized as manga styles can get the artists still have a sense of proportion/structure/anatomy. That Josie pic looked like it was done by somebody who just got their "How to Draw Manga" book. I agree. The Sabrina Amerimanga art isn't fantastic, but it's competently drawn and the artist clearly has some skill with the manga "style". That Josie and the Pussycats promo pic, however, is terrible. Not worthy of being published. I would not believe that was official art if I hadn't seen the banner on the linked Sabrina page.

[PeppeRaskell1]

yet another Archie title going the Manga route: http://www.archiecomics.com/josies_house/manga/manga.jpg

Ick.

[Funkatron]

Ok, I half take back the bad things I murmured: Newsarama has some pages up: not bad, actually: http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28765

Anorexic looking, but not as bad as the first pic I posted

[Duke]

Ok, I half take back the bad things I murmured: Newsarama has some pages up: not bad, actually: http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28765
Eh, it's not that bad, but still looks amaeturish. The eyes, especially.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Actually, that's not that bad. At least this artist has a sense of anatomy and proportion. I mean as stylized as manga styles can get the artists still have a sense of proportion/structure/anatomy. That Josie pic looked like it was done by somebody who just got their "How to Draw Manga" book.True. But as you can see, the wannabe manga styles are really out of control in these publications. That's the point...they really don't look like "manga" at all. Or in the case of Josie...:ack:

That said, there's still a sense of manga-fan-art in all of the Archie manga line. don't you agree?

[Beat]

The only American that should be allowed to draw manga is Adam Warren.

This proves it.

[Fatneck]

True. But as you can see, the wannabe manga styles are really out of control in these publications. That's the point...they really don't look like "manga" at all. Or in the case of Josie...:ack:

That said, there's still a sense of manga-fan-art in all of the Archie manga line. don't you agree? Oh yeah definetly. The Sabrina artist looks to have some influence, but going in their own direction. Which is good, emulating someone else's style perfectly is no fun. But the other wannabes' problems could be attributed to the fact they just focus on style as opposed to understanding the basics. Focus on style over structure tends to produce some really terrible art.

[Sandoz]

Ok, I half take back the bad things I murmured: Newsarama has some pages up: not bad, actually: http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28765

Anorexic looking, but not as bad as the first pic I posted
It looks like a different artist is doing the interior art, which is a good thing. There are still some issues with proportion and faces (the girls don't look "happy" so much as "whacked out on drugs"), but it's a step up.


The only American that should be allowed to draw manga is Adam Warren.

This proves it.
I have to disagree. Chyna Clugston-Major, Dean Hsieh, and Jill Thompson have done "American manga" quite well.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Oh yeah definetly. The Sabrina artist looks to have some influence, but going in their own direction. Which is good, emulating someone else's style perfectly is no fun. But the other wannabes' problems could be attributed to the fact they just focus on style as opposed to understanding the basics. Focus on style over structure tends to produce some really terrible art.
You sound like you like the Sabrina art. :p

See, the problem with all of these books, as you noted, is that not only do they not have a strong grasp on the technical side of art, they don't emulate the manga "style" well either. My problem with Sabrina is that it is marketed under their "manga style" banner (it even says on the cover) yet it looks like a sort of strange diluted manga style, and while it is technically superior to Josie, that isn't saying much. I suppose I'm biased because Archie has had so many great artists in the past, so we're not going to get Dan Decarlo-calibre expertise here. But then you would expect that Archie would make an effort to get people who CAN do this properly, if this is what they want to do.

I don't mind someone not being as technically inclined as an "accomplised" artist, as long as he/she has a voice, and the problem with the Archie manga line in general is that it makes these artists draw a certain way they obviously are not used to (or are just not qualified to). That's the problem with both Sabrina and Josie.

[Umino]

Uhhh, have you seen their Sabrina manga? :eek: :ack:
OH MY GOD.

I read that crap at Borders once. I can't believe how bad it was, it really tried too hard. There was even a guy name Shinji in the comic, just to make it more 'Japanese'.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

It looks like a different artist is doing the interior art, which is a good thing. There are still some issues with proportion and faces (the girls don't look "happy" so much as "whacked out on drugs"), but it's a step up.


I have to disagree. Chyna Clugston-Major, Dean Hsieh, and Jill Thompson have done "American manga" quite well.
Paul Pope actually worked for a manga publisher in Japan, so I'd list him as well.

But you know, this "American manga" stuff is getting out of hand. People should just draw how they want to. If you really like to draw in the "manga style", fine, but don't draw in that style because it's "trendy" (like I suspect most artists do). If you want to draw crude and raw, fine, because if it's truly your voice, people will be drawn to that too.

I suppose my qualm though is with these publishers making their artists draw a certain way they're not used to, not with the artists themselves.

[Fatneck]

You sound like you like the Sabrina art. :p Eh, not really. I guess I'm easy on it because when I compare it to the Josie pinup it doesn't seem THAT bad.


See, the problem with all of these books, as you noted, is that not only do they not have a strong grasp on the technical side of art, they don't emulate the manga "style" well either. My problem with Sabrina is that it is marketed under their "manga style" banner (it even says on the cover) yet it looks like a sort of strange diluted manga style, and while it is technically superior to Josie, that isn't saying much. I noticed when I started drawing that there are little subtleties in the art style that creates its look. These people tend to just go by vague generalizations of the style.

I suppose I'm biased because Archie has had so many great artists in the past, so we're not going to get Dan Decarlo-calibre expertise here. But then you would expect that Archie would make an effort to get people who CAN do this properly, if this is what they want to do. True, but I prefer it if they just stayed with their old style. I think the general attitude with these publishers is that if it looks like kinda like manga kids'll buy it.

I don't mind someone not being as technically inclined as an "accomplised" artist, as long as he/she has a voice, and the problem with the Archie manga line in general is that it makes these artists draw a certain way they obviously are not used to (or are just not qualified to). That's the problem with both Sabrina and Josie. Yeah, it's pretty messed up. When these artist try to copy the style like this instead of drawing how they want they'll churn out some soulless and flat art. Because you can just tell by looking at it they don't want to do this.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

.
Yeah, it's pretty messed up. When these artist try to copy the style like this instead of drawing how they want they'll churn out some soulless and flat art. Because you can just tell by looking at it they don't want to do this.
LOL, yeah. Still, there are ways to find your own "voice" even within forced guidelines like they're given here. God knows so many manga in Japan are full of the same generic style, but some artists there have still managed to carve out their own voice even while working in a market-friendly art style.

But, I don't blame them at all if they don't want to do this. Gotta pay the rent somehow, I guess.

[Peter Paltridge]

Oh NO......

They can do it to Sabrina, but PLEASE not to Josie! This is just peeing on Dan DeCarlo's grave...not that Archie Co. didn't do some urination in advance while he was still alive.

[Karl Olson]

LOL, yeah. Still, there are ways to find your own "voice" even within forced guidelines like they're given here. God knows so many manga in Japan are full of the same generic style, but some artists there have still managed to carve out their own voice even while working in a market-friendly art style.

Shoot, some of the most popular manga-ka in Japan are the ones that don't really look anything like the stock styles, or at the very least, very much make them there own to the point of recognizability (Koge Donbo, Kiyohiko Azuma and of course, Akira Toriyama, to name a few.)

That said, the interior Josie art looks ok. Still definitely with some American overtones and panel layout, but alright. They should consider pulling some of the best stills out of the interior and then carefully coloring them. All things considered though, I think Archie probably would have the best luck with just hiring some one out of the doujinshi scene in Japan or even a published but lesser known manga for these title repurposings, if not some original titles. For example, Haruka Fukushima (author of the cute and kid friendly Instant Teen (http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=INT&categorycode=BMG)) would probably provide an interesting take on some of the Archie-verse stuff, and it'd have a look no anime/manga fan could pick apart while probably appealing to current Archie-verse fans. Even better would just be giving her a new series to work with. If you can't beat 'em, employ 'em. ;)

[Chad Bonin]

Note that this is not the first manga-styled appearance of Josie and the Pussycats.

An ashcan comic from late last year featured The Archies and Sabrina's band (hence why the manga style) in a contest judged by Josie and the Pussycats... or something.

... so yes, I have Manga Jughead in a box under my bed.

... dear Lord, not THAT box.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Shoot, some of the most popular manga-ka in Japan are the ones that don't really look anything like the stock styles, or at the very least, very much make them there own to the point of recognizability (Koge Donbo, Kiyohiko Azuma and of course, Akira Toriyama, to name a few.)

;)That's true. But I'm sure they've got a bunch of editors for this specific Archie manga line telling the artists to "draw manga style. You know, big eyes, small noses."

The ironic thing about all of this is that Dan DeCarlo's Archie "house" style is actually pretty manga-like anyway. Betty and Veronica's pin-style noses and innocent-looking eyes aren't far off. In fact, if you just took his style and tweaked it every so slightly, it's pretty much "manga style" right there.

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/78/comicsjournal239.jpg


Is this that much different from "real" manga?

http://www.guiadelcomic.com/comics/pix/kare_kano/act47.jpg

EDIT: Wow, you know, looking at this, I'm beginning to think that DeCarlo must have had some influence on shoujo manga. I mean, they sell Archie comics in Japan. So I'm sure some artists there must have been influenced by it.

[Karl Olson]

Note that this is not the first manga-styled appearance of Josie and the Pussycats.

An ashcan comic from late last year featured The Archies and Sabrina's band (hence why the manga style) in a contest judged by Josie and the Pussycats... or something.

... so yes, I have Manga Jughead in a box under my bed.

... dear Lord, not THAT box.

Good Save.... ;) I'd like to see Manga Jughead if possible.


That's true. But I'm sure they've got a bunch of editors for this specific Archie manga line telling the artists to "draw manga style. You know, big eyes, small noses."

The ironic thing about all of this is that Dan DeCarlo's Archie "house" style is actually pretty manga-like anyway. Betty and Veronica's pin-style noses and innocent-looking eyes aren't far off. In fact, if you just took his style and tweaked it every so slightly, it's pretty much "manga style" right there.

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/78/comicsjournal239.jpg


Is this that much different from "real" manga?

http://www.guiadelcomic.com/comics/pix/kare_kano/act47.jpg

EDIT: Wow, you know, looking at this, I'm beginning to think that DeCarlo must have had some influence on shoujo manga. I mean, they sell Archie comics in Japan. So I'm sure some artists there must have been influenced by it.

From that thumbnail, I'd have to disagree. Even looking at older shoujo manga (rather anime, as Mahoutsukai Sally, an anime, was really one of the first pieces of shoujo media,) it's much closer to the stuff that Tezuka initially worked out (which admittedly still has it's roots in an American influence, just a different one.) Even then, as shoujo manga began to find it's own voice, it ended up taking a break towards being very screen-tone/watercolor heavy with a lot of very "open" panel layouts, especially in the modern works. DeCarlo might have been a nominal influence, but as early as the 1950's there was probably more copying of Tezuka in Japan than any American influences, and the by the time you get the 1970's with works like Swan (http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/2419_x.pdf), shoujo really begun to feedback in on itself and started to create a separate base style given the hyper-detailed elements and very elogated, semi-androgenous character design. By the time you get to works like Kare Kano, Kodocha, Fruits Basket and Tokyo Mew Mew, the only thing take might considered a De Carlo element is the some basic nature of the facial stucture (basically the nose, kind of, as DeCarlo's mouths were bigger and his eyes were radically less detailed and exaggerated.) The handling is so radically different that I'd be loath to try an assume an influence unless an author admitted to it. Add to that just how radically different everything else is, from the backgrounds to the paneling to the shading to the proportions and figure of the bodies, even in older works like Swan, and I just can't buy it with out an admission of influence. If anything, there was probably more influence out of Mort Drucker from Mad Magazine on manga (as Monkey Punch's success with Lupin which Punch openly admits was inspired by Mort's style resulted in a new wave of copycatting in Japan that's a bit easier to connect to modern work than DeCarlo.) Heck, Swan really does seem like a marriage of Monkey Punch's and Tezuka's styling when I think about. It's got Tezuka's round-edges and large eyes mediated with Punch's more elongated character design and eye-style (with some arguably european flourishes as well, but it is a manga about ballet after all.) Swan is one of the seminal works of shoujo manga, so it'd only follow it's the seed point for a lot of the modern work.

I just think there are some radically different tacks take on this, and that even if you had some one on Archie's staff today who could match DeCarlo's style line for line, that won't give them the modern manga style. If they want that current style, they should just get someone like Fukushima (IE: talented, but not uber-popular and therefore expensive) or find a darn good unknown. Telling their existing staff to go through the motions isn't going to yield the right results, and it'll look amateurish with out fail. They'd be better off staying with the stock style if they don't plan to do manga design well.

[Chad Bonin]

Good Save.... ;) I'd like to see Manga Jughead if possible.That means I need to connect my scanner... and find the comic.

Give me all day tomorrow.

[Karl Olson]

That means I need to connect my scanner... and find the comic.

Give me all day tomorrow.

Sweet. Maybe I'll return the favor by scanning a panel or two out of my Batman Beyond doujinshi... :)

[Bunai]

Oh NO......

They can do it to Sabrina, but PLEASE not to Josie! This is just peeing on Dan DeCarlo's grave...not that Archie Co. didn't do some urination in advance while he was still alive.
i went comic shoppin just Sunday, and was thinking (no lie) as i looked at the shelf.
"i hope no one tries to do anything with Josie and the Pussycats"

well...my bubble is shattered.:crying:
I HOPE TO FREAKIN MANGA influced Gawds. that they don't make Sabastin look like the new Salem. UGH! he looks like a plushy that got in a fight with a bee hive and lost! Salem is suppose to be slender and black (been like that for years)...hance the witch part.
and i think adding the Shinji character was just...cheesy. i understand if you want a tween romance angst problems. but just to add a character for the heck of it is just...bleh. its like...put him here because Japanese characters are trendy.

what i'm not liking about this is. these two girls have a style, but all the characters look alike. same body same face same (kind of like MegaTokyo). (not to keen on Sabrinas new nose. the upturned nose made her look cute)

and the comment about the characters looking drugged up...i'll agree. they look like they are in a constant state of "WOW! Whats that?!"


despite the MegaTokyo style. that story is a self creation all on its own.
but these are previous works with radical changes.
its not that i'm against changing Dan DeCarlo's look or updating, but get some pro help for these girls.
i'd just draw them how they were, but more cartoonish (and that would mean making the eyes more visible and the bodies more unrealistic). but...it seems this is more like fanart.
her drawings are good for her own sake, but they are not constant...it goes from one head shape to another, the bodys go from good to whack, and the poses are stiff.

yeah and that cover is scary...i've seen Japanese draw like that.

[MonkeyFunk]

The only American that should be allowed to draw manga is Adam Warren.

This proves it.
I'm British, can I draw manga?

[Artimus Gigan]

I think it more or less has to do with how the artisits handle it. I saw sabrina manga as well and I was like "Meh I've seen better", I don't like that they Japanize for the sake of Japanizing, I wouldn't mind series taking on the look, however I don't like that they go further and make every single thing Japanese. It really screws with the story, and if you look at series like Battle Angel Alita or Appleseed they don't Japanize the settings even though they were drawn in Japan...however the art direction is handled quite well.

And to say that certain people should only draw anime is stupid. It's an art style anyone can learn it, so it's like Barouqe or Rococo. Heck the current top artist of Da vinci's art style is actualy a Korean guy...

I think the allure is that the associated stories and characters(giant robots, barely clothed women, all out violence) are associated with it because they were drawn in that style. Heck american animators could animate a well written mature story like GITS or whatever. I'd love to see Pixar do somthing else besides the family friendly movies and move towards hards science fictionor fantasy...

[Chad Bonin]

http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29M682KHU0W1P0C5HHUB9TMU73

The Cover, and Pages 1-5.

I might scan the rest later.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Good Save.... ;) I'd like to see Manga Jughead if possible.



From that thumbnail, I'd have to disagree. Even looking at older shoujo manga (rather anime, as Mahoutsukai Sally, an anime, was really one of the first pieces of shoujo media,) it's much closer to the stuff that Tezuka initially worked out (which admittedly still has it's roots in an American influence, just a different one.) Even then, as shoujo manga began to find it's own voice, it ended up taking a break towards being very screen-tone/watercolor heavy with a lot of v.....
.
Sometimes, you can be a real show-off, you know that? :p

[Bunai]

I'm British, can I draw manga?
:mad: No! No you can't! Now go to your room with the chair and think about what I just said :evil:

[MonkeyFunk]

Fine then, I'll go back to imitating Belgian comics.

[Ryoutarou]

I'm British, can I draw manga?We all know that has nothing to do with it...most of us anyways, it's just people trying to emulate the "generic anime style". Big eyes, little nose, etc. It's annoying to no end to me. But there are some people who can draw different style of manga, and actually make it look like Japanese drawn manga. I've got no problem with that.


I just missed an ungodly obvious joke, didn't I? XD

[Karl Olson]

Sometimes, you can be a real show-off, you know that? :p

Sorry, it's a force of habit. Sad thing is, I never really set out to learn it, it's simply been a side effect of being an anime fan since 2000. :anime:


http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29M682KHU0W1P0C5HHUB9TMU73

The Cover, and Pages 1-5.

I might scan the rest later.

You know, that's a surprisingly good medium between the classic style and anime style. And manga Jughead is pretty darn hilarious, in as much as he gets the shoujo bubbles in the background when he thinks of eating. That's comedy. I'll try and get up a bit of the Batman Beyond doujin then. It doesn't really break away from the DCAU style though.

[Conan-san]

We all know that has nothing to do with it...most of us anyways, it's just people trying to emulate the "generic anime style". Big eyes, little nose, etc. It's annoying to no end to me. But there are some people who can draw different style of manga, and actually make it look like Japanese drawn manga. I've got no problem with that.


I just missed an ungodly obvious joke, didn't I? XD Probably. Maybe some long horrid joke involving how we (the bittish) get it right up the- in terms of manga disribution.

[Wanted]

I wonder if DiC would be willing to animate this. It wouldn't be a half bad series (unless the animation, writing, voices, and/or musical performances weren't horrid).

(getting ready to endure commentary)

[Conan-san]

I wonder if DiC would be willing to animate this. It wouldn't be a half bad series (unless the animation, writing, voices, and/or musical performances weren't horrid).

(getting ready to endure commentary)No, just no. They can't do normal anime for crap, don't let them near Psudo anime.

And "Musical Prefromances" and "DIC" in the same sentance usaly involve "Sonic Underground".

Ugh, I'll pass thank you.

[lostrune]

Erg. I already had too much discussion this week of this. People familiar with Archie Comics already noted they already went down this road before with Sabrina (http://www.archiecomics.com/temp.html). Even Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17003) from NBM got the treatment.




Haruka Fukushima (author of the cute and kid friendly Instant Teen (http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=INT&categorycode=BMG))
*cough* Fancy Lala (http://www.ex.org/3.6/17-anime_fancylala.html) *cough*

[Karl Olson]

*cough* Fancy Lala (http://www.ex.org/3.6/17-anime_fancylala.html) *cough*

Wouldn't mind that manga-ka having a shot at it. Outside of the superstars like CLAMP and Natsumi Takuya and other big name shoujo manga-ka, there are a lot of talent artists with great assistant teams that could certainly use some work, and given the nature of Archie serials, they probably wouldn't mind such a steady, long term paycheck. :anime:

[lostrune]

Wouldn't mind that manga-ka having a shot at it. Outside of the superstars like CLAMP and Natsumi Takuya and other big name shoujo manga-ka, there are a lot of talent artists with great assistant teams that could certainly use some work, and given the nature of Archie serials, they probably wouldn't mind such a steady, long term paycheck. :anime:
I meant, her theme was already popularized before.... :sweat:

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I meant, her theme was already popularized before.... :sweat:
Hell, take it a step further and you have 13 Going on 30...:p

[Karl Olson]

I meant, her theme was already popularized before.... :sweat:

Ah, yeah, that. Good point. :sweat: Age-advance oriented shoujo's has been played with by more than a few people (shoot, Full Moon wo Sagashite falls under that umbrella too.) It's really the different modes of handling it that count.

[Zechs]

I wonder if DiC would be willing to animate this. It wouldn't be a half bad series (unless the animation, writing, voices, and/or musical performances weren't horrid).

(getting ready to endure commentary)
The art's not that that bad it all looks like it was done by a noob who's only watched magical girl (or big eyed) anime shows. As for animating it I think it would be a bad idea unless they got someone else to draw it. (Now this makes me fell better about my own crappy art.)

[Bunai]

lol forgot what we were talkin bout...now i remember.

i would not be surprised if this was reanimated, and by DIC of all companies.
it just seems like something they would do. but like i said before.
i am not digging the girls art style...its nice she has one of her own, but apply it to a US icon and say "Its Manga TIME Weeee!" :sad: just makes me sad.

i know i can't stop it from happening...i just don't have to buy it lol
but i just wish she'd work on body, face, and keeping the drawings constant.

do the girls ever blink?! man. get them off the drug look its just not working.
even if it was reanimated, i doubt the original Pussycat VA's would like it. they certainly didn't like how the 'live' movie was handled.