View Full Version : Misguided Japanophiles?
lostrune
03-11-2005, 01:18 AM
Japan Today's quotable quote (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=quote&id=1340):
"Many Americans are attracted to Japanese pop culture because we look at Japan as a place where it's OK to like comic books and cartoons past the socially approved expiration date."
-- Patrick Macias, a writer for the San Francisco-based trade magazine Animerica. Macias, who is also the author of "Cruising the Anime City: An Otaku Guide to Neo-Tokyo," on why American teenagers love Japanese pop culture. (AFP-Jiji)
One response:
Another popular misconception...
SkatMart (Mar 11 2005 - 05:40)
...actually, most people in Japan will still think you are a dork if you like manga and anime after the age of 18.
Its like, in the US, if you are over 18 you can like, "The Simpsons" and nobody would think you were weird, but if you like "Superman: The Animated Series" after the age of 18... people will think you are a dork.
Likewise, it is socially acceptable in Japan to watch "Meitantei Conan" or "Sasae San" but not cool to watch "Gundam" after the age of 12.
VIZ (makers of Animerica) is a brilliant company, insofar as they have sold the American anime community on the idea that Japan is a mecca of social acceptance for social behavior not regularly accepted by Americans. They have made statement to the effect that the Japanese have a more liberal attitude toward homosexuality and sexual experimentation (which is true in essentially the same context that it is in the US), that all Japanese people love anime, that people that do cosplay are considered normal, or that Gangoro is massively popular even outside of Shinjuku.
Suncoast, VIZ, and the other anime companies in the US are selling "anime" as a brand name to the Western market. Complete with revisionist historical hype. Telling you that anime that barely made a blip in the Japanese market are among the most popular.
In short, Patrick's myth is designed to sell anime to Americans willing to watch scifi and read comic books, but unwilling to commit to the idea of purchasing material that will put them in the full-fledged dork categories (gamers, Trekers, etc.)
Disclaimer: I am not against anime, scifi, Star Trek, or gaming... I just realize that the marketing campaigns of VIZ, Tokyopop, and Suncoast have done a much better job of making anime seem more mainstream than Star Trek, Star Wars, and the rest.
What do you guys think? Agree or disagree? With the original quote or with the responses? :confused:
Sprocket
03-11-2005, 01:23 AM
Exactly. It's the same with all the Jump mangas and their anime adaptations. You can claim they're "mature" and more "mainstream" than Western Science Fiction 'til you're blue in the face, but you're holding the minority view in society. Even the companies that make the shows and comics in Japan don't see their products as "mature". Not to say that there isn't manga aimed at adults, but I'd say it holds a similar stigma that "adult" comics hold here, namely that they're not as "adult" as they claim to be.
And yes, I am a dork. But I've come to terms with that, I suppose.
Bunai
03-11-2005, 04:19 AM
i like the response.
Japan does hold censorship, and do get calls when something is show that parents or a view in general doesn't approve of.
there are a lot of people in Japan who don't even like manga or anime, and some think its embarassing to watch or have as a hobby- regardless of its contain level.
Japan is treated as the mecca of things. people mostly look at it for "fashion,comics,animation,or candy". even Japanese want people to know that its not all about that. there are places besides Tokyo.
even Japanese want people to know that its not all about that. there are places besides Tokyo.
KANSAI IN THE HIZZOUSE! Where my Kansai homies at?!
Gokou Ruri
03-11-2005, 04:33 AM
At least this will hopefully open more people's eyes on their shows and comics. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's worse in Japan than it is in America. I've notice it's a lot more acceptable for a 20 year old getting the newest Gotham Knights comic as opposed to a 20 year old getting the latest One Piece or Bobobobo. But mainly because the Japanese find reading comics and cartoons are childish no matter what it is, while as long as it's not Archie or something, it's pretty indifferent in America. (Everyone loves Batman, afterall.)
Chris Wood
03-11-2005, 05:11 AM
KANSAI IN THE HIZZOUSE! Where my Kansai homies at?!
Yo! What up G?
I don't particularly agree with that response. Manga is undeniably more mainstream in Japan than it is here, for children and adults. Japan is a more liberal society in some areas, but very restrictive in others.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's worse in Japan than it is in America. I've notice it's a lot more acceptable for a 20 year old getting the newest Gotham Knights comic as opposed to a 20 year old getting the latest One Piece or Bobobobo.
You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yet.
Where the skeptics are correct is anime. Anime in Japan is waaay more niche than manga. Everyone reads manga, but watching lots of anime makes you a nerd.
Likewise, it is socially acceptable in Japan to watch "Meitantei Conan" after the age of 12....and all is well with the world.
Dudley
03-11-2005, 07:12 AM
I've seen a lot of older people read manga. And I read that those people aren't considered dorks.
It's the kind of anime you watch that will decide that.
rubberchicken
03-11-2005, 09:34 AM
I will continue reading Sandman, Hellblazer, and Sin City regardless of what people say about me.
Kenshin5000
03-11-2005, 10:02 AM
Despite its niche in Japan, there is no reason as to why anime could be become at least partially mainstream in America anyway. Our market doesn't have to follow the Japanese model. And I'm already sure that most anime fans in America are a bit more socially adept than those in Japan.
Case in point: Love Pillows. :ack:
Chris Wood
03-11-2005, 12:47 PM
You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yet.
Where the skeptics are correct is anime. Anime in Japan is waaay more niche than manga. Everyone reads manga, but watching lots of anime makes you a nerd.
That sounds pretty accurate. When manga coffee shops start popping up in the U.S., then we'll know the race is drawing close.
MonkeyFunk
03-11-2005, 01:16 PM
I've been saying this for some time at other boards, and no-one ever listens to me. They always come back with "what about (insert adult anime here), eh, eh? That's not for kids, is it, eh, eh?"
:shrug:
Artimus Gigan
03-11-2005, 01:25 PM
And people just realsied this now? I've known this for years, YEAAARRSS!!!
And still I've got assloads of Books and graphic novels....Heck even harcover 1000+ page science fiction books that I bring to read in case a class is canceled, I still get weird looks.....and I get weird looks for playing a Gameboy/DS as well...
Though to really counteract the point many cellphones have those cell-phone games which are pretty much junk when compared to the actual games released for handheld systems.....so "normal" people spend their cash on a sub-par product...
There is no Nerdcore Utopia....Iceland is nothing like it was in that one movie
Gokou Ruri
03-11-2005, 02:55 PM
You're right be suspicious of the claim that Japan is comic-topia, but that's going a bit too far. Yes, anyone older than high school/college-age would get weird looks for buying One Piece and anyone over 14 would probably get weird looks for buying Bo^7. But adults don't get weird looks for buying comics for their age group, like salaryman dramas or historical fiction. The American equivelants of those comic genres, on the other hand, are still the exclusive province of niche geekdom. When American 7-Elevens start stocking large numbers of weekly comic anthologies then the US will be on a par with Japan in terms of comic industry penetration. As it is we have a ways to go yetWell I was mainly comparing the mainstream US comics (Marvel and DC) to mainstream Japanese comics (Shonen Jump and the like) But yeah, manga is more acceptable than anime in Japan.
Supernovametalstar
03-11-2005, 03:07 PM
I've seen a lot of older people read manga. And I read that those people aren't considered dorks.
It's the kind of anime you watch that will decide that.
In the past week I've seen a man on the bus reading a trade paperback of Superman (I think) and three guys wearing business suits (at least on of them was in his late to mid 40's and the other were in their 20's to 30's) on the street talking about Doomsday appearance on the latest JLU episode. And in a Borders, I saw another older guy browsing the manga section.
Of course, these people could just be anomolies
:anime:
MonkeyFunk
03-11-2005, 03:28 PM
The other people at my animation course were 50+ and were big on Disney, Miyazaki et al; it goes without sayign that people at an aniamtion class will be big on cartoons, but the point is that they didn't fit the "dork" stereotype at all.
Artimus Gigan
03-11-2005, 03:30 PM
The other people at my animation course were 50+ and were big on Disney, Miyazaki et al; it goes without sayign that people at an aniamtion class will be big on cartoons, but the point is that they didn't fit the "dork" stereotype at all.The "dork" sterotype looking people are actualy the minority....they converge at conventions so when people see conventions they see alotta them because they are all concentraited in one area...
that and the costumes really stick out alot....
"Geek" would be a more accurate term than "Dork"... they're very diffrent.
Besides, I think that most people don't veiw Japan as a "utopia" so much as a "place where the stuff is readily avalible".
Artimus Gigan
03-11-2005, 06:43 PM
"Geek" would be a more accurate term than "Dork"... they're very diffrent.
Besides, I think that most people don't veiw Japan as a "utopia" so much as a "place where the stuff is readily avalible".Yeah but with the internet now everything is readily available, all it comes down to is proper pricing....IIRC the yen still outweighs the dollar currently, so to actualy get the edge on deals you really gotta act when the dollar outweighs the yen(which is pretty much short term because it tends to fluxuate quickly)...
not to mention you have to figure in traveling costs, living expenses, etc.
Neo-Era
03-11-2005, 07:30 PM
In short, Patrick's myth is designed to sell anime to Americans willing to watch scifi and read comic books, but unwilling to commit to the idea of purchasing material that will put them in the full-fledged dork categories (gamers, Trekers, etc.)
But Patrick Macias didn't say that it was socially acceptable for Japanese people to do these things, just that Americans look at it that way. The guy is more than smart enough to know the difference.
Me, I think it's silly that people are paranoid about looking childish for liking these things when many millions of grown-ups pay $8-10 a pop to see movies based on comic books, laugh at fart jokes on South Park, and spend hours playing video games. Worse is the implication that you're going to be seeing all this great stuff when you ditch the juvenile material and watch whatever it is "real adults" do. But look at the things general audiences tune into in droves: daytime talk shows, sitcoms with canned laughter, reality TV, American Idol. If you think watching talking heads on the TV news moaning about Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt breaking up makes you more of a grown-up, in your own way, you're as out of touch as the Trekkies.
Pepperidge
03-11-2005, 08:25 PM
You know, whenever I talk to people who have been to or lived in Japan about what kinds of age groups certain anime are "acceptable" for, I always get completely different answers. I think it's safe to assume that everyone has their own individual opinion on this and that you can't rely on generalizations of what the entire population of Japan thinks.
Artimus Gigan
03-11-2005, 09:12 PM
Though one thing tends to make me wonder
What about all those people in Japan who like Ameri-comics, what do they think our society is comprised of? What weird dillusions do they have?
Though one thing tends to make me wonder
What about all those people in Japan who like Ameri-comics, what do they think our society is comprised of? What weird dillusions do they have?From what I've gathered, it's very similar to the American veiw of Japan. Except they supposedly hate us deep down. :yawn:
Master Moron
03-11-2005, 11:09 PM
Okay, next question, how does Japanese society feel about videogames. I mean, in American society, I think videogaming for adults is just now becoming popular(probably because this generation of adults grew up with them while the previous generation didn't.) So, what do the Japanese think of video games?
Pepperidge
03-11-2005, 11:36 PM
Though one thing tends to make me wonder
What about all those people in Japan who like Ameri-comics, what do they think our society is comprised of? What weird dillusions do they have?I don't think American comics are popular at all in Japan.
Artimus Gigan
03-12-2005, 12:28 AM
From what I've gathered, it's very similar to the American veiw of Japan. Except they supposedly hate us deep down. :yawn:Why do they hate us deep down?
Chad Bonin
03-12-2005, 12:29 AM
I don't think American comics are popular at all in Japan.Because, ya know, it's not like the Superman "S" is the most iconic image throughout the world.
Oh. Wait.
Sprocket
03-12-2005, 12:32 AM
Never mind the fact that the creators of Yu-Gi-Oh and Shaman King are big, BIG-TIME Hellboy fanboys. That's a comic that's garnered quite a following in Japan. But most of American comics are niche, and you'd have to be a fanboy, or fangirl, to really be into them, I would think.
Because, ya know, it's not like the Superman "S" is the most iconic image throughout the world.
Oh. Wait.
Japan =! The rest of the world.
Every country has its share of extreme fans. It just seems that the ratio of normal to extreme fans is higher in Japan.
Artimus Gigan
03-12-2005, 12:37 AM
Japan =! The rest of the world.
Every country has its share of extreme fans. It just seems that the ratio of normal to extreme fans is higher in Japan.concentraition may be higher, hwoever the US greatly outnumbers Japan but it's more dilluted
Hordesman
03-12-2005, 12:56 AM
There's a Japanese term for US comics. Americomi or something...
Certainly YGO referred to US comics in one of its first volumes and that was fun to read. Anzu commented on how the US superheroes were all overmuscled and such.
There have been characters and manga over the years based on US comics characters. Dr. Slump's Suppaman, Wizard press mentioned a Batman-inspired series whose name escapes me since it was some years back, Big O... and of course there's always doujinshi: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1345&item=5962039002&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Also, I gor this manga magazine at Kinokuniya (Luffy was on the cover with a photo b/g) with a page showing a Fantastic 4 cover.
Eh, manga and anime aren't half bad as gateways. Still watch a ton but I have widened horizons in live action movies and even this soap called Sakura- it's awesome!
Chris Wood
03-12-2005, 01:02 AM
Though one thing tends to make me wonder
What about all those people in Japan who like Ameri-comics, what do they think our society is comprised of? What weird dillusions do they have?
All those people? I don't know recent sales figures. but I bet they're still very low. When I was in Japan a few years back you had to look high and low to find American comics for sale, and they ain't cheap.
Gokou Ruri
03-12-2005, 02:33 AM
Never mind the fact that the creators of Yu-Gi-Oh and Shaman King are big, BIG-TIME Hellboy fanboys
If you mean that Zombire thing in YGO I'm sure it was suppose to be Spawn, not Hellboy. The logo even looks like Spawn's :p
If you mean that Zombire thing in YGO I'm sure it was suppose to be Spawn, not Hellboy. The logo even looks like Spawn's :p
The Yu-Gi-Oh creator admitted he loved Hellboy an interview. He even drew a picture of Hellboy for Mike Mignola, Hellboy's creator. (Mignola later replied with a pic depecting Hellboy wearing a Yu-Gi-Oh T-shirt)
Pic's right there.
http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/Muryoken/Fanart/yugihellboy.jpg
Gokou Ruri
03-12-2005, 03:43 AM
Oh, I guess I shouldn't have let my SJ subscription lapse after all :shrug:
And I take it none of you have ever read "Kinnikuman". The first few volumes were constantly making fun of American Superheros. In fact, in the first chapter the world needed to be saved, but the Ultra Brothers were the the hot spings, so they decided to turn to the American Superheros. "PP-man" had to wait for his cape to come back from the cleaners, "Suupider-man" was in the ICU because he fell off a building, and the rest (who were ovious mock-ups of Wonder Woman, Batman, the Fantactic 4, and Captain America) were off spending quality time with their families.
Kinnikuman got pretty popular, so I'm guessing there are quite a few Comic Book geeks in Japan.
Artimus Gigan
03-12-2005, 11:01 AM
All those people? I don't know recent sales figures. but I bet they're still very low. When I was in Japan a few years back you had to look high and low to find American comics for sale, and they ain't cheap.Gee sounds just like trying to aquire manga before it was widespread
Hordesman
03-12-2005, 11:39 AM
All those people? I don't know recent sales figures. but I bet they're still very low. When I was in Japan a few years back you had to look high and low to find American comics for sale, and they ain't cheap.
It's not just Japan. When I was in England over a year ago, between the dollar exchange rate and import fees added on... an issue of a comic released a few short weeks prior in the US was close to $10 if memory serves. Yep, I got myself into the bookstore 'round the corner and got another YGO manga which went by the Canada price. The fact is that $3.50 for 32 pages is absurd, color or not, when manga's selling volumes between 8 and 10 bucks before I even pull out my B&N card.
Oh, and there's still Project A-Ko for US comics influence.
Gokou Ruri
03-12-2005, 02:01 PM
You have to realise that American comics are collectors items and made with higher detail than Japanese comics (Which aren't colored, are mass-produced, and the more mainstream ones don't have much detail)
So the comic you got for 3.50 can be sold for 70.00 later on and then you can just shell out another 3.50 for a 'third run' version of the same comic. You just made over 60 bucks ;)
You have to realise that American comics are collectors items and made with higher detail than Japanese comics (Which aren't colored, are mass-produced, and the more mainstream ones don't have much detail)
So the comic you got for 3.50 can be sold for 70.00 later on and then you can just shell out another 3.50 for a 'third run' version of the same comic. You just made over 60 bucks ;)
And that's the mentality that killed the American comic industry. I mean, look at eBay-- everyone thinks they can resell their comics for more and they end up getting usually nothing more than a buck or two, and that's if they sell at all.
Hordesman
03-12-2005, 02:27 PM
You have to realise that American comics are collectors items and made with higher detail than Japanese comics (Which aren't colored, are mass-produced, and the more mainstream ones don't have much detail)
So the comic you got for 3.50 can be sold for 70.00 later on and then you can just shell out another 3.50 for a 'third run' version of the same comic. You just made over 60 bucks ;)
If most of the fans are collecting, just how do you get it sold for $70.00?
rubberchicken
03-12-2005, 02:52 PM
There's always someone.
That is a huge difference in attitude between the US and Japan in terms of comics readership. An American fan shells out an exorbitant sum to be an old issue of Superman, then puts it into a plastic envelope and locks it in a chest in his attic for the next billion years hoping that it'll appreciate. A Japanese reader picks up a book of manga for $5, if that, then reads through it on the train home from work or school and finishes just in time to toss it into the garbage can or recycling bin as he gets off.
Gokou Ruri
03-12-2005, 03:45 PM
The fact is that $3.50 for 32 pages is absurd, color or not, when manga's selling volumes between 8 and 10 bucks before I even pull out my B&N card.
Actually if you do the math, it's about the same. Japanese comics are 13.6 pages for the dollar and American comics are 12 pages for the dollar. You sacrifice a page or two for higher quality and color.
lostrune
03-12-2005, 08:51 PM
Where the skeptics are correct is anime. Anime in Japan is waaay more niche than manga. Everyone reads manga, but watching lots of anime makes you a nerd.
Some years ago, a Japanese friend let me know that everybody reads manga, but when "anime-ized," the age range is lowered during the manga to anime transition because anime is geared towards the younger sets.
InfinityBlade
03-12-2005, 09:30 PM
Some years ago, a Japanese friend let me know that everybody reads manga, but when "anime-ized," the age range is lowered during the manga to anime transition because anime is geared towards the younger sets.
*looks at Bleach manga*
*looks at Bleach ANIME*
...
I could believe that. x_x;
Chris Wood
03-13-2005, 01:45 AM
[Blood Majin]You have to realise that American comics are collectors items and made with higher detail than Japanese comics (Which aren't colored, are mass-produced, and the more mainstream ones don't have much detail)
All the major comics are mass produced.
So the comic you got for 3.50 can be sold for 70.00 later on and then you can just shell out another 3.50 for a 'third run' version of the same comic. You just made over 60 bucks ;)
Yeah, if the stars just happen to align for you. Most of the time you'll be lucky to get back the original purchase price.
Actually if you do the math, it's about the same. Japanese comics are 13.6 pages for the dollar and American comics are 12 pages for the dollar. You sacrifice a page or two for higher quality and color.
??? You can get manga volumes of around 200 pages for about $5, or 40 pages for the dollar. And although you do get color with American comics, you don't necessarily get higher quality. While manga characters may be a little simplified, things like machinery and backgrounds are often photorealistic.
Gokou Ruri
03-13-2005, 03:18 AM
??? You can get manga volumes of around 200 pages for about $5, or 40 pages for the dollar.I did the math like this:
A typical manga chapter is 17 pages usually
There's about 8 chapters per volume
Volumes sell between 7.99 to 14.99 depending on what series/publisher it is (One Piece and Trigun respectivly); so I averaged it to 9.99 dollars.
So now for the American side
A typical issue ranges from 30 - 50ish pages based on which series it is. I'll use a 36 for an average.
Each issue costs about 2.99
Math time. 17 pages times 8 chapters is 136 pages of content a book. Divide that by 9.99 dollars which gives you 13.6 pages per dollar. Likewise, 36 pages divided by 2.99 is 12 pages for a dollar.
:D *Pushes glasses back up onto bridge of his nose*
While manga characters may be a little simplified, things like machinery and backgrounds are often photorealistic.Really? I always thought manga has a lot of...white... when it came to backgrounds.
http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews/3892/3892_3.jpg
and
http://img148.exs.cx/img148/6310/178mx.jpg
Green Lantern Rebirth #4 and One Piece #358
I did the math like this:
A typical manga chapter is 17 pages usually
There's about 8 chapters per volume
Volumes sell between 7.99 to 14.99 depending on what series/publisher it is (One Piece and Trigun respectivly); so I averaged it to 9.99 dollars.
You're using the American prices (and your manga page count (136) is a bit low, but we'll get to that). In Japan manga is much cheaper. Even if you go with gns, which are inherently uneconomical, you're paying 400-500 yen for (usually) 160-200 pages. Using the last exchange rate I can remember off the top of my head, that's $3.70-$4.63, or 34-54 pages per dollar, usually closer to the higher end of that spectrum. And keep in mind a phone book anthology will get you an even better value than that.
Gokou Ruri
03-13-2005, 01:34 PM
Well, I used the America princes because most of us live in America. It also gets a better cover, sometimes hardback, and higher quality paper.
Trades are pretty much what a manga volume is: 8.99 for 155ish pages; or 17.2 pages a dollar. So I guess we cold use trades; but I hate trades, personally.
Even in American prices, though, comics are about 9 pages to the dollar (32/3.5) and manga is 18-29 pages to the dollar (assuming $7-$9 per volume, that's 160/9=18 & 200/7=29).
Gokou Ruri
03-13-2005, 01:53 PM
Where do you get 3.5 from? All the comics I have are a 2.9 cover price.
Artimus Gigan
03-13-2005, 01:53 PM
Even in American prices, though, comics are about 9 pages to the dollar (32/3.5) and manga is 18-29 pages to the dollar (assuming $7-$9 per volume, that's 160/9=18 & 200/7=29).However, how many cells are there on average per page?
If one page has as many cells as two pages that could be a factor...
Where do you get 3.5 from? All the comics I have are a 2.9 cover price.
I don't buy American comics regularly so don't look at me. You're the one who used the $3.50 price when you were making that argument about collectibility. But even if it's $2.90 that only brings us up to 11 pages to the dollar.
[I'm looking at some of the $2.25 comics I have and they're only 24 pages. Are you sure the cheaper ones don't have a lower page count?]
However, how many cells are there on average per page?
If one page has as many cells as two pages that could be a factor...
I'm looking at my manga and my comics and I'm not seeing a big difference. After all, manga is originally published at a size similar to that of American comics, so it makes sense that it'll have similar cell counts. But like I said, I don't read that many American comics so I suppose I could be wrong.
Gokou Ruri
03-13-2005, 02:22 PM
I used 2.99 in my equasion and an average of 35 pages (Issues can have up to over 50 pages) W.I.T.C.H has about 66 pages an issue :eek:
Artimus Gigan
03-13-2005, 04:34 PM
I'm looking at my manga and my comics and I'm not seeing a big difference. After all, manga is originally published at a size similar to that of American comics, so it makes sense that it'll have similar cell counts. But like I said, I don't read that many American comics so I suppose I could be wrong.I usualy buy comcis in TPB form, essentialy the manga volumes are thicker for about 10 bucks a volume, the American Comics usualy cost around 15-17 bucks a volume(and usualy contain 6 months worth of material) and are usualy thinner but they are taller than the manga volumes.
However the manga that usualy costs around 15 bucks are usualy the ones released by DarkHorse(Appleseed, GITS, Domination) and those are usualy as thick as two manga volumes...and contain more color
More or less I think the pricing could be due to demand. It's sorta similar to why the DVDs are more expensive when compared to other series. 10 bucks for a manga volume doesn't seem alot, however considering the production values of the books, they could lower the price, but because the demand isn't high enough they wouldn't make a profit.
Chris Wood
03-13-2005, 08:23 PM
Green Lantern Rebirth #4 and One Piece #358
Well, One Piece is hardly an example of great artwork. Try a more sophisticated title.
In Japan manga is much cheaper. Even if you go with gns, which are inherently uneconomical, you're paying 400-500 yen for (usually) 160-200 pages. Using the last exchange rate I can remember off the top of my head, that's $3.70-$4.63, or 34-54 pages per dollar, usually closer to the higher end of that spectrum. And keep in mind a phone book anthology will get you an even better value than that.
Plus if you go to a used manga shop you can get that stuff half price or cheaper.
I used 2.99 in my equasion and an average of 35 pages (Issues can have up to over 50 pages) W.I.T.C.H has about 66 pages an issue :eek:
Yes, but are there any actual comics where you can get 35 pages for $2.99? I don't think a mean average of all American comic formats is very statistically useful here.
Plus if you go to a used manga shop you can get that stuff half price or cheaper.
Indeed. Three cheers for Book Off!
Gokou Ruri
03-13-2005, 10:16 PM
Well, One Piece is hardly an example of great artwork. Try a more sophisticated title.
One Piece was the only thing I could find, really. Death Note is probably the only weekly shonen jump title I'd say comes close.
Yes, but are there any actual comics where you can get 35 pages for $2.99? I don't think a mean average of all American comic formats is very statistically useful here.It varies. Some titles offer 32 pages for 2.50 cover price, others for more pages at 2.99. It's different for each series so I just used a mean to balence it all out.
KuwabaraTheMan
03-13-2005, 11:03 PM
The average pages of story is 22(with 10 pages of ads to make 32 total) at somewhere between 2.25 and 2.99. Going with 2.50 as the middle price, which seems to be the main ground of prices, you get 8.8 pages for a dollar.
Bunai
03-14-2005, 10:56 AM
you have to notice that a full manga takes months to create. its done in pieces just like an american/england/canadian etc-comic would be, then its gathered up and sold as a whole GN. IE Transmetropolitan
i have CCS and Love Hina in a 32-45 page comic. unless that was TPs decision i doubt it. but manga runs in just pages when put in mags like...Jump, Ribbon, Zippy...etc. it can take up to a year just to finish the first book.
and the extra 5 bucks comes from getting the rights, translator, translation, cover art, colored pages, promotion, shipping, etc. the company has to make back a profit so of course its cheaper in its country of origin.
you'd think they'd knock of a dollar or two since a lot of companies are leaving manga unfliped, sound effects still the same, and artwork.
wouldn't it be easier to just email/write someone that makes comics to get a good answer?
Chris Wood
03-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Since we're talking about manga I'd like to note for those who haven't noticed already that on Yahoo Japan you can read a variety of new manga online.
Hordesman
03-16-2005, 02:52 PM
There's always someone.
That is a huge difference in attitude between the US and Japan in terms of comics readership. An American fan shells out an exorbitant sum to be an old issue of Superman, then puts it into a plastic envelope and locks it in a chest in his attic for the next billion years hoping that it'll appreciate. A Japanese reader picks up a book of manga for $5, if that, then reads through it on the train home from work or school and finishes just in time to toss it into the garbage can or recycling bin as he gets off.
And if said Japanese reader likes a series in SJ, they'll buy the GN later on. You've have to have noticed US comics have picked up on the manga GN a bit but they'd get wider audiences going the full manga route... Cheaper paper for first-run stories, more durable paper for the reprint and a lower price point since the material's been released before.
Misguided and Japanophile used in the same sentence? How can that be?? :p I don't have much else to add to the conversation, other than the people who'd believe that anime is a highly respected art form in Japan also believe things like this:
Otaku1023: "Everything in America SUX everything Japan does is BETTER I'm going to move to Japan because everyone is so much nicer and more accepting (especially to us gaijin! we're treated like gods, not blamed for crime increasing or anything! teehee) and teach Englsih!!!!11"
I thought that online myth about all anime is considered mature and adult in Japan went away at least two-three years ago...
Monkey12
03-17-2005, 09:00 AM
Misguided and Japanophile used in the same sentence? How can that be?? :p I don't have much else to add to the conversation, other than the people who'd believe that anime is a highly respected art form in Japan also believe things like this:
Otaku1023: "Everything in America SUX everything Japan does is BETTER I'm going to move to Japan because everyone is so much nicer and more accepting (especially to us gaijin! we're treated like gods, not blamed for crime increasing or anything! teehee) and teach Englsih!!!!11"
I thought that online myth about all anime is considered mature and adult in Japan went away at least two-three years ago...Don't forget the " Anime isn't a cartoon" otakus.
Bunai
03-17-2005, 10:04 AM
lol Misguided and Japanophile.
it does sound funny. :)
is there ever a misguided or misunderstood Phile?
Hatter
03-17-2005, 10:16 AM
On the topic of American superheroes in Japan, there's a pretty informative thread right here (http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159814) which deals with that topic.
Artimus Gigan
03-17-2005, 12:06 PM
Yeah this is more and more sounding like the reverse negative of when anime was commonly refered to as "japamation" in america...back before the time of Pokemon...before the mighty DVD, and before HD(cookie to ever gets the introduction I'm spoofing)
nobody knew what the hell I was asking for...ever
I used both names and everyone was like WTF....
this is why I own practicly no anime on VHS....
Hordesman
03-17-2005, 12:33 PM
Otaku1023: "Everything in America SUX everything Japan does is BETTER I'm going to move to Japan because everyone is so much nicer and more accepting (especially to us gaijin! we're treated like gods, not blamed for crime increasing or anything! teehee) and teach Englsih!!!!11"
Well, you've gotta give props to a country where you can sell comics of the Fellowship of the Ring (with excellent likenesses) in Playboy Bunny suits and not get sued.
But gaijins do have leeway, if only because of percieved ignorance. I went to a doujinshi panel at a con last summer and one thing she said struck me in particular: The panelist was reading her doujinshi on the train back from a doujinishi con in Japan and even though the train was full of Japanese ppl who'd been there as well, none of them opened the books they'd gotten. It's not something you would read in public unless you're a gaijin. And then the panelist's guide started reading her doujinshi and got stares.
Mynd Hed
03-17-2005, 08:04 PM
Don't forget the " Anime isn't a cartoon" otakus.
No kidding-- check out a certain addition to the Anime Forum rules if you want to know just how annoying that particular issue got to the moderation staff here once upon a time. (-:
Sailor Chibi Otaku
03-18-2005, 06:36 PM
even Japanese want people to know that its not all about that. there are places besides Tokyo.
As a fan of everything Japanese, I've always been aware of other cities besides Tokyo. ;) My Japanese friend used to live in the Chiba prefecture. Now he lives in Ichikawa. He sends me info to help me expand my love and affection for Japan. He was actually quite happy to know that I know so much (espcially the names and what many of them mean and that I love Takeshi Kaneshiro) and was happy to help me learn Japanese. It's almost a year and we're still in contact with each other. :)
I get my manga in French and I only watch a handful of anime in English, so I guess I see more than the English versions? I don't know. I can't tell you for sure as I only have two graphic novels in English (volume one of Banana Fish and volume one of Wedding Peach).
I'll read up on them to see. :)
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