"You know what Bruce...you're not always right."

[FunTurtle]

"You know what Bruce...you're not always right."
-Superman (Twilight Pt. 2)

...He's not? I saw Twilight recently while watching my tapes of Season 2, and when he said that, it got me thinking. He has always been right, as far as I can remember. When has he been wrong. Yeah, sometimes his mind gets manipulated, like in "Perchance to Dream", or "Chemistry", but that wasn't his fault. When Batman is fully alert and in control of himself, has he ever been wrong? Has Batman ever been in a place where he screwed up and made the wrong choices, and Robin or Nightwing or Batgirl had to bail him out? If Darkseid ever returns, that'll be the first time he was wrong, since Batman said that Darkseid couldn't have survived. So far, he's got a pretty good record, and if he's never wrong, then this whole "conspiracy" outcome is pretty clear. Whatever side Batman ends up on is the right one. If you can state a time that Batman has been wrong, please refresh our memories. (It doesn't count if Batman has to be saved, like when Hawkgirl saved him from the burning building in "Injustice For All". He has to be WRONG about something...he's got to believe something, follow through, and be wrong.)

(Since I brought up Darkseid and his "goneness", I'd like to bash the JLU comic if I may. Yeah...so the recent issue had Darkseid as its villian. Seriously...do they WATCH the show??? They did the same thing with Aresia. She's in Fury...she dies...and she's in the comic a few months later. I've got nothing wrong with a comic using an A-List villain, even that pile, but they shouldn't use villians that are assumued dead or M.I.A. in the show.)

[Casey Mack]

[clears throat]

IN the batman Beyond episode "The Call" Bruce gave Terry[Batman] the last piece of Kryptonite on Earth to kill superman. He beleived supes had become purely evil. Bruce did not even bother to find a reason why Supes would become evil [Plot hole].Bruce was wrong Supes was being controlled by Starro.
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[Anthonynotes]

While I can't think of examples, I'm sure Bruce has been wrong before---since, like anyone else, he's still only human (save it, "enough time to prepare" crowd ;-) )... and we've all made mistakes/been wrong about something or other at some time or other.

-B.

[GregX]

Um, he was wrong to trust Talia in "Avatar", she was too loyal to her father to allow Batman to deliver him to the authorities.

[Fone Bone]

Everything Batman said and did during Trial was wrong.

[Supremus]

He was wrong when he ordered his cowls a few sizes too big when he joined the League.

[FunTurtle]

This might spark some controversey but...

Was Batman wrong in the later years of being Dick Graysons partner?
i.e. pissing him off, knowing who Barbara was and not telling...
or did Dick Grayson take things the wrong way?
Oh yeah...I thought of a time he was wrong.
Revealing his identity to Static??? It took him a few weeks/months to tell Dick Grayson, and he tells Static after working with him for all of 2 hours.

[EJill34]

He was wrong when he decided to eliminate all the muscles from his body and remove the yellow oval from his bat insignia.

[Kieralinn]

He was wrong in thinking he could save Harvey Dent in the 1st season of B:TAS, we all know how that went, but at least he tried. Besides, he HAS to be right most of the time. He's freakin' BATMAN!:cool:
Oops, I almost forgot. What about Booster Gold? He bawled him out for leaving his post in The Greatest Story Never Told, but then again he didn't know what happened.:shrug:

[Style]

He was wrong when he ordered his cowls a few sizes too big when he joined the League.Nah, he's just kickin' it old school:
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/87/400/87_4_0031.jpg

[Casey Mack]

He was wrong when he decided to eliminate all the muscles from his body and remove the yellow oval from his bat insignia.
thats more of a Bruce Timm attack then something he did wrong buddy. If you wanna attack Timm, just dun do it here please.
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[Zergrinch]

Too bad we don't have a sarcasm tag on the net :\

Batman is infallible? I don't think so.

For instance, when he was 8 years old, he insisted on going to that Zorro movie, that fateful night when his life would change forever... He messed up :D

And once again, he indirectly ruined the life of Tim Drake when he allowed Robin to go on patrol alone, on the night Harley abducted him for the Joker.

Like the legendary chess playing Cuban Capablanca, Batman rarely blunders. He does sometimes play less than optimal moves...

[Supremus]

Nah, he's just kickin' it old school:Batman was wrong when he was kickin' it old school.;)

He looked more silly than scary back then.

[Mr.LethalWeapon]

He has always been right, as far as I can remember. When has he been wrong. Yeah, sometimes his mind gets manipulated, like in "Perchance to Dream", or "Chemistry", but that wasn't his fault. When Batman is fully alert and in control of himself, has he ever been wrong?
Bullock: Why? Why'd you stick your neck out like that to help me?

Batman: Beacause I thought you were guilty too, and I was wrong.

- BTAS: Vendetta

[EJill34]

thats more of a Bruce Timm attack then something he did wrong buddy. If you wanna attack Timm, just dun do it here please.
It was a joke. In fact, the TNBA design is my favorite of the Timm renditions and one of my favorite versions of Batman ever.

[Supremus]

It was a joke. In fact, the TNBA design is my favorite of the Timm renditions and one of my favorite versions of Batman ever.I'm with you Señor Mahler. TNBA Batman looked fantastic. None of the other Batman designs made him look quite as statuesque and intimidating.

[EJill34]

I'm with you Señor Mahler. TNBA Batman looked fantastic. None of the other Batman designs made him look quite as statuesque and intimidating.
I was really disappointed when they opted for a new design back when JL started. TNBA Bats was just so perfect and so iconic, it seemed like such a shame that it was only utilized in 30 episodes or so. It really stripped Batman down to his essentials and he literally blended in with the dark, gothic world he inhabited. I can't praise that design enough.

[PuppetMaster21J]

Batman's made errors in judgement that aren't exactly public... just in the Bat-family... like when Dick Grayson first moved in with him (Robin's Reckoning) he went out looking for Zucco more than spending time with Dick, until Alfred told him that he needed a friend. That's why Alfred is around... he keeps Bruce human, from going over the edge.

He also wasn't right when he wallowed in self pity after Jim Gordon was shot (the wonderfully tragic I Am The Night), and Dick "saved" him from that by making him snap out of it. Most of Bruce Wayne/Batman's mistakes come from character flaws, hubris, and lack of sensetivity to the feelings of his close friends... but that's just him, and those who are closest to him (Dick and Alfred especially) know how to snap him out of it.

Ok, those are my two cents, although it played out more like two bucks.
;-)

[90'sCartoonMan]

Bullock: Why? Why'd you stick your neck out like that to help me?

Batman: Beacause I thought you were guilty too, and I was wrong.

- BTAS: Vendetta
Oooh, you've got a quote where he admits to being wrong. Extra points for you.

Batman is usually a good judge of character, but he was way off in "Chemistry". Too little, too late, unfortunately.

[Style]

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you fellas, GMahler and Supremus. I say Batman needs to have blue highlights. He just didn't look right to me stripped down to Black and Gray. But I still miss his yellow Oval...

You know, Old Maid had a theory that Bruce kicked Tim out of the house after the "Return of the Joker" incident. THAT would have been wrong. Although I never saw it like that personally. I always assumed that there was a point that Tim felt it was important to be Robin again, Bruce felt too guilty to allow it, so Tim just left.

On the other hand, maybe Batman was wrong to allow Tim to be Robin at all. There was certainly always that undercurrent that he was wrong to draft Jason Todd into the service, and since Animated Timm is much closer to comics Jason, well...

[Revelator]

Bruce tends to make the sort of mistakes a cold and obsessive person makes: he often expects those around him to be as stoic and self-contained as himself, which makes him a terrible "people person," and he often ends up putting the mission above everything else, so he unintentionally hurts others because of his tunnel vision.

I was resistant to his JLU redesign at first but have grown to like it a lot. It really does harken back to that 1939 look, and I've always liked a long-eared Batman (How I miss Kelley Jones...). And his slimmer, bluer JLU look does fit in much better with the colorfully attired and super-buff League than his imposing gray/black monolith design because it emphasizes the lack of superhuman muscles but accentuates the superheroic colors (and since the character is in more colorful environs, rather than his usual dark gothic world, the redesign makes sense). Bob Kane was a wretched artist next to Robinson or Sprang, let alone folks like Neal Adams, but his early Batman did look genuinely spooky and weird. Being dark but mega-stylized, it seemed more unearthly than the dark but realistic stylings of later artists.

[Casey Mack]

Bruce tends to make the sort of mistakes a cold and obsessive person makes: he often expects those around him to be as stoic and self-contained as himself, which makes him a terrible "people person," and he often ends up putting the mission above everything else, so he unintentionally hurts others because of his tunnel vision.

I was resistant to his JLU redesign at first but have grown to like it a lot. It really does harken back to that 1939 look, and I've always liked a long-eared Batman (How I miss Kelley Jones...). And his slimmer, bluer JLU look does fit in much better with the colorfully attired and super-buff League than his imposing gray/black monolith design because it emphasizes the lack of superhuman muscles but accentuates the superheroic colors (and since the character is in more colorful environs, rather than his usual dark gothic world, the redesign makes sense). Bob Kane was a wretched artist next to Robinson or Sprang, let alone folks like Neal Adams, but his early Batman did look genuinely spooky and weird. Being dark but mega-stylized, it seemed more
unearthly than the dark but realistic stylings of later artists.

I always thought the JLU Batman design is the best of all time. that old yellow emblem crap is stone age stuff.
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[Style]

I always thought the JLU Batman design is the best of all time. that old yellow emblem crap is stone age stuff. It's weird to me that you blast the yellow oval primarily on an "old" charge, when the JLU costume design is based on a Batman styling long predating the yellow oval, and you admit to liking the costume. :confused:

[Bobbywoodhogan]

Out of the Batman designs my favourite is probably the JL one but sometimes they draw his ears too big (watch Once and Future Thing). I actually like how he's drawn on the Batman:

The ears are a little too small but I don't mind, the yellow oval or the blck bat are fine by me and that cape is huge just how it should be.

http://toons.heroicimages.net/Resources/Images/Batman/batman_batman.jpg

[Casey Mack]

It's weird to me that you blast the yellow oval primarily on an "old" charge, when the JLU costume design is based on a Batman styling long predating the yellow oval, and you admit to liking the costume. :confused:
im talking about Animated wise, the yellow emblem feels old.
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[Batman Fan]

Originally posted by Style 92

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you fellas, GMahler and Supremus. I say Batman needs to have blue highlights. He just didn't look right to me stripped down to Black and Gray. But I still miss his yellow Oval...



I agree with Style 92, the B:TAS design is by far the coolest Batman design and he looks really good with the blue highlights and the yellow oval and he needs to go back to that design. The TNBA design always seemed to plain to me but I still liked it, it made Batman look really big though. And although I don't hate the JL design, it's my least favorite out of the three. Although the Batman has a similar design as the B:TAS one, the ears are to small and that chin:shrug:

[Captain Clown]

I was resistant to his JLU redesign at first but have grown to like it a lot. It really does harken back to that 1939 look, and I've always liked a long-eared Batman (How I miss Kelley Jones...). And his slimmer, bluer JLU look does fit in much better with the colorfully attired and super-buff League than his imposing gray/black monolith design because it emphasizes the lack of superhuman muscles but accentuates the superheroic colors (and since the character is in more colorful environs, rather than his usual dark gothic world, the redesign makes sense). Bob Kane was a wretched artist next to Robinson or Sprang, let alone folks like Neal Adams, but his early Batman did look genuinely spooky and weird. Being dark but mega-stylized, it seemed more unearthly than the dark but realistic stylings of later artists.
Yeah, I'll go with that. The JLU design looks more superheroey and makes sense in context.

[The Weed Of Cri]

Batman alienated Dick Grayson until Grayson quit the team. His gross insensitivity was undoubtedly wrong; he was just too proud to admit it. In Batman Beyond, we learned that Batman had an affair of sorts with Batgirl. That was probably wrong, considering what it did to their relationship. In For The Man Who Has Everything, Batman tries to tackle Mongul hand-to-hand. That wasn't just wrong; it was stupid.

[murmur]

I'm not sure how happy FunTurtle would be about the thread turning into an argument over the qualities of Batman's costume...So far, only one person (kudos, MrLethalWeapon) has found a concrete instance of a tactical error on Batman's behalf.

As far as more psychological errors are concerned...well, we all know Bruce has issues and he doesn't always act in a way that's best for himself and those around him. Basically, I think it is in Batman's character to be strategically correct about 99% of the time. When it comes to his disagreements with Superman, I'm not sure it's just a matter of strategy though. His comment about Darkseid was pretty concrete, I'll admit, but the argument over Doomsday's sentence was less clear. It would be hard to prove one way or the other whether or not he was "right," regardless of what Superman or Doomsday do as a result.

[Zergrinch]

In For The Man Who Has Everything, Batman tries to tackle Mongul hand-to-hand. That wasn't just wrong; it was stupid.
Can you refresh my memory? I don't remember seeing this scene in "For the Man Who Has Everything". It was Diana who had mano y' (wo)mano against Mongul, while Bruce tried to snap Supes out of it.

[Anthonynotes]

>>Too bad we don't have a sarcasm tag on the net :\

Batman is infallible? I don't think so.

For instance, when he was 8 years old, he insisted on going to that Zorro movie, that fateful night when his life would change forever... He messed up :D
<<

Actually, you should blame his parents for that one---who would short-cut through a dark alley at night with a kid in tow like that?! :-)

-B.

[Casey Mack]

Can you refresh my memory? I don't remember seeing this scene in "For the Man Who Has Everything". It was Diana who had mano y' (wo)mano against Mongul, while Bruce tried to snap Supes out of it.
watch it again then, cause Bruce jumps on Muguls back, but Mongul just flicks him off.
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[Sara-Monster]

Well in Mask of the Phantasm, up intil the end, he seemed to believe that it was Andrea's father acting as the Phantasm
so he was wrong on that account..

[Duckboy]

"You know what Bruce...you're not always right."
-Superman (Twilight Pt. 2)
I've always loved that line, because it works on two levels. On the surface, he's just saying, "Batman, you're a pompous jerk." But he's also saying, "If you had listened to me, none of this would have happened."

In other words, the mistake to which he refers is Batman's (and the other Leaguers') eagerness to join with Darkseid in the first place.

Superman said they should let Darkseid and Brainiac just destroy each other, but Bats just insulted and mocked him in response, forcing him to go along with the League's plan of bailing Darkseid out. There's no on-screen evidence that Bats and the others even had a Plan B in case they were double-crossed by Darkseid -- Supes had to make Bats and Wondy bring in the New Genesians.

We can debate whether or not Superman's plan really would have been better than Batman's (for example, a Brainiac armed with technology from Apokolips would have been even more dangerous). But from Superman's perspective, anyway, Batman made a huge error in judgment at the beginning of Twilight, pt. 1.

[RAINMAN]

Good point duckboy. Darkside is supes enemy so he so know darksid better then anyone. How would bats like it if the joker or Ras al ghoul ask for their help and supes froce hem to help them anyway even after turing them down? And bats whould know more then anyone that villains like darkside don`t die so easly. Just how many times has the joker died then come back whitout a bruse?:sweat:

[Duckboy]

Thanks, Rainman. :)

Y'know, I wonder why the much-maligned "Mystery of the Batwoman" hasn't come up yet in this thread.
(The spoiler tags are probably overkill, but just in case...)
I thought most people felt it took Bats an awfully long time to figure out the Batwoman's identity.

Personally, I don't hold that against him *too* much -- I think the writers were clever to have Batman flummoxed when the Batwomen break an unwritten rule of superheroing: they have more than one person be the same hero at the same time. (Yes, I know Batwoman wasn't the first to break that rule, but it's still rare.)

Still, would it have been that hard to stick a Bat-tracer on her? And why the heck did he share his Kathy Kane hunch with the cops before he had it nailed down? Those looked like mistakes to me.

[PuppetMaster21J]

Superman said they should let Darkseid and Brainiac just destroy each other, but Bats just insulted and mocked him in response, forcing him to go along with the League's plan of bailing Darkseid out. There's no on-screen evidence that Bats and the others even had a Plan B in case they were double-crossed by Darkseid -- Supes had to make Bats and Wondy bring in the New Genesians.
Batman had to step in and be a voice of reason and logic, something Superman couldn't muster under the current situation. Superman was not thinking clearly, how to defeat his enemy. He was thinking bitterly, angrily, and was letting his emotions govern him... for example, when he fought Darkseid in the watchtower, he almopst knocked it out of orbit. Bats insulted him to get him to snap back to reality and focus on the task at hand. Whenever Batman has had to fight the Joker, Ra's, or Scarecrow/Poison Ivy two villains who have messed with their minds in a similar fashion, although not to the degree that Darkseid did to Superman, he took it on as a job he had to do, didn't let his emotions get the better of him.

As for having a Plan B, Batman ALWAYS has a Plan B... to quote him after Hawkgil questions him with the kryptonite, he says, "call it insurance."

~Joe