Mobile Suit Gundam SEED "Spiral of Encounters" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Duke

03-04-2005, 10:50 AM

http://fridays.toonzone.net/talkbacks/premiere.gifhttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/seed.jpg

In the distant future, bishonen are the most powerful people in the world. Hmm, I guess the future's not that far off now, is it?

Last week on Mobile Suit Gundam SEED:

"The Eternal joins up with the Archangel and the Kusanagi as they try to decide what to do next. However, before anything can be done, a new ship that looks exactly like the Archangel ('cept with black paint) arrives! This new ship, called the Dominion, has the druggies aboard, ready to rumble. But the big shocker comes from the fact that the Dominion is helmed by none other than Natarle! And Azreal, head of Blue Cosmos, is on board as well! With the Eternal not battle-ready yet, the Archangel and Kusanagi head off to fight, and promptly get pwned by Natarle! As if that wasn't enough, the Kusanagi is trapped by wire, Rau & Yzak join the fight, and Kira is facing a barrage of missiles!"

This week on Mobile Suit Gundam SEED:

"Kira has only one shot left to escape certain death. He must go Super Saiya...err...SEED Mode! Athrun decides that he doesn't want Kira to get all the glory, so he joins in the SEED fun too! Meanwhile, Yzak finds out Dearka's alive! With his partner alive, the two decide to frolic happily together in the random wasteland! Shiho doesn't like this and tries to end this union, but Miri fanboys arrive to save the day and keep Dearka away! Oh yea, and Rau leads Mu and Kira into a laboratory where a startling truth will be revealed..."

Spoilers: THIS is why people hate genetic engineering...

Rurouni Kenshin

03-04-2005, 04:25 PM

I'm confused, I missed the episode after the one where they leave earth, the next thing I know Andy is back, could someone tell me what happened that episode?

NickWhiz1

03-04-2005, 05:30 PM

I'm confused, I missed the episode after the one where they leave earth, the next thing I know Andy is back, could someone tell me what happened that episode? Phase-41 (three weeks ago) http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/seed/gsep41.htm
Phase-42 (two weeks ago) http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/seed/gsep42.htm (http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/seed/gsep42.htm)

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 12:39 AM

Meanwhile, Yzak finds out Dearka's alive!

I've found it amusing that Zaft seems to completely ignore the fact that Buster has been on the Archangel's side for quite awhile now. It may not be as powerful as Freedom, Justice, or the druggies but as one of the now second tier Gundams, it's still on par with Yzak's suit and can still kick the crap out of most everything else on the battlefield.

Looking forward to tonight's episode.

FlyByNite77

03-05-2005, 01:19 AM

Mwu really is the man he gets a wicked piece of shrapnel and through edits it now doesn't bleed ;)

EnAll

03-05-2005, 01:22 AM

Mwu really is the man he gets a wicked piece of shrapnel and through edits it now doesn't bleed ;)
And it's a disco party!

MattThomasM2B

03-05-2005, 01:25 AM

*Glitter ball comes down from the ceiling*

Disco gun inferno!! Disco gun inferno!!!

Lol, when is a full DVD boxset coming out?

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 01:28 AM

Edit List:

Clotho's "We're going to be in deep ****" changed to "We're going to be in big trouble."

Yzak's "BASTARD! How dare you use Dearka's machine." changed to "YOU SCUM! How dare you use Dearka's machine."

Shani's "Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!" changed to "Take this! Take this! Take this!"

Yzak's "What the hell is going on here?" changed to "What exactly is going on here?"

Mu's blood digitally edited(you know, despite showing it in the preview)

All guns are now FUNKIFIED.

Mu getting shot in the shoulder edited.

I'm going off of memory since I loaned the DVD to my friend, so I might have missed something, but I think that's it.

And I'd like to say that Mark Oliver and Trevor Devall did kick ass jobs as Rau and Mu.

Next week, everything hits the fan.

FlyByNite77

03-05-2005, 01:30 AM

Mwu must be an android, how can he get pierced through the side and shot in the shoulder and not bleed? lmao...so stupid.

EnAll

03-05-2005, 01:31 AM

For some comments:

Rau's voice has just become my favorite
And these episiodes truly define Gundam in all it's greatness

NickWhiz1

03-05-2005, 01:31 AM

Boo at edits.

Yay at episode. This episode has probably the best set of BGMs in the entire series. Also, it's very important, as the last few minutes set the stage for next week...

Next Time: Phase 45 - The Opening Door

In a word: backstories.

Juu-kuchi

03-05-2005, 01:33 AM

I've begun to accept these edits as is, and although they don't change anything, it still is ridiculous.

Next episode, controversy. Not only because of violence but because of allusions to current scientific research and stuff.

EnAll

03-05-2005, 01:34 AM

This episode has probably the best set of BGMs in the entire series. .espicillay the one when we were going from scene to scene near the episiode

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 01:35 AM

espicillay the one when we were going from scene to scene near the episiode
Indeed, that was some really good music.

I can't wait till 2 weeks from now when I'll finally being seeing stuff that's new to me again.

Demonic Raven

03-05-2005, 01:36 AM

...All I must say is wow....I mean wow. Have we ever had a more disco gun'd episode? I'm getting these weird urges...to get FUNKAY!

*disco ball drops, "Stayin alive" starts playing, DISCOS*

Aaaaaanyway...pretty good episode. The first half was all about the Gundam fighting, which is always a treat. The second half was more about revelations and character interactions.

9/10

All joking aside, the disco gun edits REALLY ruin the mood. It's way too intrusive, especially in an episode like this where it was virtually everywhere!

PaQ

03-05-2005, 01:39 AM

Another great episode of SEED. I think I have a feeling what Rau is trying to get it, and that would certainly add a twist to the whole Mu/Rau situation and bring in some more SW similarity. I find it oddly too coincidental that they end up there.

Also I hope Dearka can calm Yzak down, as much as I dislike Yzak, I've grown to like Dearka and I hope that he lives. Things certainly have gotten intense, and I wonder what Flay is planning to do. Oh, and I really like that music SEED has gone to recently to end the episode right before the preview of the next episode.

EnAll

03-05-2005, 01:41 AM

Oh, and I really like that music SEED has gone to recently to end the episode right before the preview of the next episode.
That would be the current ending(in Japan) Find the Way. IMO, not as good as River or Anni Ni, but still fits

NickWhiz1

03-05-2005, 01:45 AM

Once again, for your viewing pleasure, the hierarcy of SEED/Destiny endings:

Anna ni = Reason > Find the Way = Life Goes On >>>> River

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 02:06 AM

Here's a run down of the edits for this episode.

I won't post all the scenes where blood was removed, but here's a few. 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap066.jpg) 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap070.jpg) 3 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap071.jpg) 4 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap074.jpg) 5 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap075.jpg)

I won't post all the times the guns were edited, but here's Yzak's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap069.jpg), Kira's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap068.jpg), Mwu's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap077.jpg), and Rau's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap067.jpg).

Gun shot sounds changed to sound more like a laser.

The flashback scene with Dearka was sped up and these (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap072.jpg) two (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap073.jpg) scenes were darkened, but the blood remained here unlike when the episode actually aired.

Azreal's reason for not leaving was different in the original. It didn't have to with Freedom and Justice; it had to do his fear that ZAFT would shoot them down if they left (which is likely what would have happened).

The withdrawal of the druggies remained, unlike previous episodes. I think this was more of a necessity then anything because of the conversation going on.

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 02:13 AM

Gun shot sounds changed to sound more like a laser.

While I'm not saying they weren't changed, I tried to pay closer attention to the gun shot sounds this time and they didn't sound bad to me. I can't say I've heard a lot of real gunshots, but to me at least the noise the gun made in this episode sounded like it could be a real gun shot. It at least doesn't sound nearly as laser-like as some other folks were making it out to be in previous Talkbacks.

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 02:19 AM

While I'm not saying they weren't changed, I tried to pay closer attention to the gun shot sounds this time and they didn't sound bad to me. I can't say I've heard a lot of real gunshots, but to me at least the noise the gun made in this episode sounded like it could be a real gun shot. It at least doesn't sound nearly as laser-like as some other folks were making it out to be in previous Talkbacks. They weren't as bad this time around but they were still edited. If I knew how to make a sound file from the original I would, but I don't. Believe me you would hear the difference.

And I forgot about a edit in the preview for the next episode. This is a very very bloody scene (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap076.jpg) and I don't blame them for removing it.

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 02:21 AM

And I forgot about a edit in the preview for the next episode. This is a very very bloody scene (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap076.jpg) and I don't blame them for removing it.

Oh my! Yeah, I think that'd be edited whether the episode was Y7 or PG.

lostrune

03-05-2005, 02:32 AM

1. As I mentioned last week, finally somebody went SEED on the druggies' asses. :)

1b. Wow, surprisingly even, SEED = druggies. :eek:

2. Heheh, everybody dance disco guns. :D

3. Wrong, Yzak. Technically, Dearka hasn't joined the enemy since ZAFT hasn't declared war on Orb. :p

4. Dammit Dearka! Just tell Yzak the truth that you only changed sides because you had a burning feeling in your loins. That's something any soldier assigned in a tight ship could understand! :sweat:

5. I surmise they're inside the colony with oxygen atmosphere? Why does it seem that any old colony has a viable atmosphere. There has got to be a leak somewhere in that big old thing. :shrug:

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 02:33 AM

Oh my! Yeah, I think that'd be edited whether the episode was Y7 or PG. Yeah, the only way a scene like that would remain would be on TV14 or higher. That kind of violence is rarely shown on American TV.

MeggieMay

03-05-2005, 02:44 AM

4. I surmise they're inside the colony with oxygen atmosphere? Why does it seem that any old colony has a viable atmosphere. There has got to be a leak somewhere in that big old thing. :shrug:Probably is leaking. However, remember a few episodes back Athrun mentioned that the PLANTS and ZAFT have had some problems with "weird" people living in Mendal Colony since it was abandoned (I wonder if that'll come up again in GSD? :confused: ).

So whoever has been hanging out (more like squatting) over at Mendal has probably been maintaining the atmosphere.

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 02:44 AM

Well, I completely forgot about that bit in the preview. My edit list fails.:crying:

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 03:02 AM

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 03:06 AM

Yeah, I just didn't notice that scene being gone since I was going through and noticing what was missing each time(or dialogue that had been changed since I basically knew what would have to be redubbed).

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 03:16 AM

In regards to "disco" guns, with this being such a gun heavy episode, I wonder how it would have been handled if they had kept doing the editing the way it was done in the initial episodes. Back then the appearance of the guns was unaltered, but instead scenes were snipped/shortened. Thus the trade-off, no missing scenes but with disco guns, or some missing scenes but without altered guns.

Andrew T. Hingson

03-05-2005, 03:27 AM

I watched the uncut versions of the first episodes and I didn't notice scenes that were removed due ot gun usage. So what are you speaking of?

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 03:29 AM

I watched the uncut versions of the first episodes and I didn't notice scenes that were removed due ot gun usage. So what are you speaking of?

I don't feel like looking it up at the moment as I need to be heading to bed, but if you dig up the old Talkback threads it is there in the edit list. There weren't many cuts, but unlike this episode, there wasn't that much gun use either.

Sampo

03-05-2005, 03:30 AM

Well, I completely forgot about that bit in the preview. My edit list fails.:crying:You didn't do a bad job, if you only did yours by memory. When I do an edit list, I watch the dub and then watch the original to take screen caps of what was edited as I watch. So, I have a better shot at catching edits. *I'M JUST KIDDING MODE ON!*
BAH! That is no way to talk to KuwabaraTheMan!

KuwabaraTheMan! You disappoint me! Do a better job next time. As punishment, go outside and do a hundred laps!

*Just Kidding mode off*

Hmm, disco night at the Seed night club eh? This should be interesting... just 30 mins or so from now here. :sweat:

I watched the uncut versions of the first episodes and I didn't notice scenes that were removed due ot gun usage. So what are you speaking of? I did the edit lists way back for the first couple of episodes...

During the first episode, there is an image of Murrue firing her gun "sniper style", it looked real bad ass... It got replaced with her shooting from a different position (I think taken from another shot).

During the second episode with Murrue, there are some pans of her pointing the gun at Kira and Co. But instead they replaced it with a pan of the Strike Unit.

There are some more edits, I already forgot about em... They should still be in those old talkback threads. Heck, I still have the DVRs of those episodes. Kinda wished I kept backups of the other episodes and use them to make an AMV of the whole edit thing... Dang it.

*walks over to the wall and bangs his head repeatedly*

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 03:50 AM

*I'M JUST KIDDING MODE ON!*
BAH! That is no way to talk to KuwabaraTheMan!

KuwabaraTheMan! You disappoint me! Do a better job next time. As punishment, go outside and do a hundred laps!

*Just Kidding mode off*

100 LAPS! If I can't do it, I'll have to do 5,000 pushups.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/kazumakuwabara/lee.jpg

That's my way of the ninja.

As I recall, they edited the guns pointing towards the screen and changed the sound effect of the firing to the Laser sound, right?

Sampo

03-05-2005, 04:01 AM

...
As I recall, they edited the guns pointing towards the screen and changed the sound effect of the firing to the Laser sound, right? Yup, that gun shot sounded like a hydrolic door opening/closing.

I still CAN'T BELIEVE they edited out those two shots of a Ginn (? I think) leveling it's massive gun at the camera.

*shrug* Ah well.

100 LAPS! If I can't do it, I'll have to do 5,000 pushups.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/kazumakuwabara/lee.jpg

That's my way of the ninja.
...
Right on KuwabaraTheMan! (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/gai.jpg)

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 04:05 AM

100 LAPS! If I can't do it, I'll have to do 5,000 pushups.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/kazumakuwabara/lee.jpg

That's my way of the ninja.
Aww, I thought you would up the challenge by doing the 100 laps on your hands :sad: :p

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 04:10 AM

That's if I can't do those pushups. But then it would be 10,000 laps on my hands. That's my way of the ninja.

rmarti3926

03-05-2005, 04:48 AM

Sampo

03-05-2005, 05:32 AM

Here are my contribution to what was edited. Note the scenes below were removed instead of Disco'd or altered.

Shot of Yzak leveling his gun at Dearka. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/edits/yzak.jpg)

Shot of Mu looking at his bloodied hand right before he spots Kira running into the complex. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/edits/bloodiedhand.jpg)

Prior to that song picks up toward the end, there was suppose to be a shot of Kira and Rau before the camera focus on that photo that was on the floor. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/edits/kiraNrau.jpg)

Ok enough of that, time to disco everyone! Disco Party! (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/edits/discoparty.jpg)

I like Yzak's disco gun. They went through the trouble and highlighted the back side of the laser gun. Looks funky eh?

Here is a shot I wished they edited (Don't worry. Don't shoot me with that Disco gun yet :D ) It was that shot of the description of the lab they were in. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/edits/engrish.jpg) It would have been nice if they fixed the sign. "BL4+ Humangene Ma Nipulation Lab"

Stuff about the episode. I give lots of credit to the VA's who did Rau and Mu, really great job there. Also Yzak VA did an alright job when he confronted Dearka.

Yup interesting stuff should be rolling out next episode!

MeggieMay

03-05-2005, 09:11 AM

Hey Sampo, could you put up a cap of the picture of Mu and his dad? I'd love to have a closer look at that :)

Duke

03-05-2005, 09:15 AM

Y'know, you gotta give whoever's editing this SOME credit. They actually tried to work the laser sound effect in so that it blended within the show and not make it too obtrusive. *Glares at Zeta.*

Hyper Shadow X

03-05-2005, 10:38 AM

I liked the battle between the Freedom and Justice vs the druggy pilots in the first part of this one.

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 11:22 AM

Hey Sampo, could you put up a cap of the picture of Mu and his dad? I'd love to have a closer look at that :) Well, as I've said before I'm not Sampo, but here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap078.jpg) you go anyway.

Rurouni Kenshin

03-05-2005, 12:06 PM

I missed this one because my tape broke, should I even bother watching the rest of the show?

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 12:19 PM

I missed this one because my tape broke, should I even bother watching the rest of the show?
I'd say don't miss the next one or you'll be really lost about what's happening. You probably already are though :shrug:

Cheesecake

03-05-2005, 01:45 PM

Wow, i havent seen that much neon since the death of disco.

Cheesecake

03-05-2005, 01:52 PM

While I'm not saying they weren't changed, I tried to pay closer attention to the gun shot sounds this time and they didn't sound bad to me. I can't say I've heard a lot of real gunshots, but to me at least the noise the gun made in this episode sounded like it could be a real gun shot. It at least doesn't sound nearly as laser-like as some other folks were making it out to be in previous Talkbacks.
yes shame it was shot from something that looked like a toy a 7 year old would feel was too gawdy.

It make sme crack up to think of anyone taking those disco guns seriously.

ZAFT WEAPONS Designer: " Now we need a new gun for modern warfare, most designers went for metallic and earth like colours for camoflauge and stealth but i think we should go for bright primary neon colours "

ZAFT WEAPONS Officer " Nah sounds too much work, how about we deisgn them just like regular pistols only glue some neon green glows rods to each side of the gun and stuff a tiny red lightbulb in the barrel?"

Fresh V

03-05-2005, 02:16 PM

It make sme crack up to think of anyone taking those disco guns seriously.
Are you calling me weird!?

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 02:39 PM

It make sme crack up to think of anyone taking those disco guns seriously.

However, without even any editing, the show still expects us to take things like bouncing pink Haros seriously.

Iridium128

03-05-2005, 02:48 PM

However, without even any editing, the show still expects us to take things like bouncing pink Haros seriously. Er... no it doesn't. The Haros are intentionally ridiculous to show Lacus' change from someone who appears to be a ditzy, air-headed pop idol surrounded by cutesy pink bouncy orbs, to a political figure head.

Freedom Fighter

03-05-2005, 04:09 PM

- I'm really digging the musical pieces in this episode. That's saying something, 'cause an instrumental piece has to really get my attention for me to notice it. Three very good pieces in this episode alone!
- Rau called Mu his child? After seeing those pictures at the end... well... maybe?
- Okay, looks like we get one light-action episode, but at least it's expository. It's the final piece of the set-up puzzle, and it definitely will be not-miss worthy!

8 out of 10 for "Spiral of Encounters," if only 'cause I dug the music.

Rurouni Kenshin

03-05-2005, 04:42 PM

Could someone give me a summary and pictures of this episode, sorry to bother you guys but it sounded like this was quite a cool episode.

NickWhiz1

03-05-2005, 05:12 PM

avatar
Whitney = fail

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 05:59 PM

Er... no it doesn't. The Haros are intentionally ridiculous to show Lacus' change from someone who appears to be a ditzy, air-headed pop idol surrounded by cutesy pink bouncy orbs, to a political figure head.

Even in her political figure role, including now on her new ship, the Haro is still floating around.

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 06:15 PM

Even in her political figure role, including now on her new ship, the Haro is still floating around. At least she only has Pink-chan now ;) What is Gundam without a few Haros floating around? And let's not forget about merchandising, this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap082.jpg) was shown during the next episode preview after this episode in Japan, in fact.

KuwabaraTheMan

03-05-2005, 06:20 PM

Wasn't there a black Haro shown in last week's episode, or am I delusional again?

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 06:30 PM

Wasn't there a black Haro shown in last week's episode, or am I delusional again? *Rewatches last episode* Dang, I stand corrected she still has a blue one, a orange one, and Pink-chan. You're likely remembering the blue one, when you say black.

Cheesecake

03-05-2005, 06:33 PM

However, without even any editing, the show still expects us to take things like bouncing pink Haros seriously.
I dont remember any characters holding each other at "haro-point" but toonamis version constantly has people attemtping to look threatening holdng people at "neon disco-point".

I mean if Kira took out a disco gun in one scene and joked with other crewmembers at how stupid it looks i wouldnt mind, but to atcually see the characters pretend to use them as real weapons is frankly embarassing. They just look absolutely ridicolous and ruin any suspension of disbelief i oculd have had.

William C. Maune

03-05-2005, 06:58 PM

They just look absolutely ridicolous and ruin any suspension of disbelief i oculd have had.

As I've said before, those edits do stand out. However, I don't see how they ruin any suspension of disbelief considering the show already forces the viewers to accept Haros, giant battling sometimes rather oddly-shaped/colored mobile suits (not to mention Freedom's rainbow cannon), pop singer diplomats, etc., etc. Brightly colored laser guns may not be realistic, but neither is a space robot that rights with a giant spiked ball and chain. People in the show may not joke about the guns, but I don't see people in the show joking about how stupid the druggies' mobile suits look either. (At least I personnally find them a little odd).

JohnCrichton

03-05-2005, 10:42 PM

Man, Mwu and Rau ferkin' hate each other.... I love it! :anime:

I cheered out loud when Rau was all cool about meeting Mwu again, then just suddenly snapped and shouted into the camera, "Mwu La Flaga!"

A second cheer burst from me when Mwu in turn shouted out Rau's name.

More cheering when the SEED boys when into Berserk Mode and the mecha fight choreography was just so fantastic.

I grin and smile everytime I hear, "Godfrieds... FIRE!!!"

I'm sorry to hear there are only three episodes left..

Riza Hawkeye

03-05-2005, 10:51 PM

I'm sorry to hear there are only three episodes left.. No, there are six episodes left. We're only on Phase-44, the last episode is Phase-50

JohnCrichton

03-06-2005, 12:25 AM

Good to hear! :D

I'm looking forward to this revelation that Rau's been hinting at... and what all this "parent" talk is about.

After this, then I guess I start my road to Destiny.

shadowstrain

03-06-2005, 07:07 AM

You've got to love the way the disco-action lights up the scenery. So fitting...:rolleyes:. Arrgghhh! How dare they touch my favorite episode of the series!!!:mad:

Cheesecake

03-06-2005, 10:01 AM

As I've said before, those edits do stand out. However, I don't see how they ruin any suspension of disbelief considering the show already forces the viewers to accept Haros, giant battling sometimes rather oddly-shaped/colored mobile suits (not to mention Freedom's rainbow cannon), pop singer diplomats, etc., etc. Brightly colored laser guns may not be realistic, but neither is a space robot that rights with a giant spiked ball and chain. People in the show may not joke about the guns, but I don't see people in the show joking about how stupid the druggies' mobile suits look either. (At least I personnally find them a little odd).
Yeah but there cosnistent with the ideas and plans of the director and animation team anf fit in with the whole scheme of things. Those disco guns are hastily photoshopped add ons by a third party that shouldnt be messing with them. There highly intrusive since you can obviously tell they dont fit in with the music, drama, characters and animation at all and just turn the once dramatic scenes into laughing stocks.

Duke

03-06-2005, 10:17 AM

Tell ya what? Since nobody is budging on the issue of disco guns, why don't we just DROP IT and talk about the episode itself?

Cheesecake

03-06-2005, 01:10 PM

Tell ya what? Since nobody is budging on the issue of disco guns, why don't we just DROP IT and talk about the episode itself?
the disco guns were in the episode

GWOtaku

03-06-2005, 02:20 PM

posted by William C. Maune:

However, without even any editing, the show still expects us to take things like bouncing pink Haros seriously. The edit debate aside, this really isn't true. Be it Gundam Seed or the classic Gundam, its always struck me as clearly obvious that the Haros exist for comic relief. There's nothing about them that isn't comical. Haros have never been used for any serious purpose whatsoever; they're either there in a light scene or to relieve tension (i.e. Captain Bright yelling at somebody in a hallway). I don't know what part of this or any other series could have possibly given you the impression that you were supposed to not find it silly.

_____________________

As for the episode, I'm surprised nobody's flipped out over Rau getting shot down. Somehow, the scene of Freedom coming out of nowhere to demolish Rau's MS always struck me as the most awesome moment of this episode and the next. True Rau was caught off guard and his machine is no match for Kira's, but Kira really made him look like a chump in this episode.

Freedom Fighter

03-06-2005, 04:18 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the Haros will always be considered by me as being a comedic aspect of the show. That is, unless they start biting people, have the ability to hack into mobile suits, or shoot laser beams from their yappy mouths.

oranthal

03-06-2005, 04:39 PM

Wait a second. Rau was able to Spider-sense Mwu but then as Kira entered the scene, Rau sensed him as well. Is there also a connection between him and Kira?

EnAll

03-06-2005, 04:46 PM

Wait a second. Rau was able to Spider-sense Mwu but then as Kira entered the scene, Rau sensed him as well. Is there also a connection between him and Kira? It'll be explained next episiode

rubberchicken

03-06-2005, 07:13 PM

Wait a second. Rau was able to Spider-sense Mwu but then as Kira entered the scene, Rau sensed him as well. Is there also a connection between him and Kira?

No, it's one of those dangling plot threads/holes that's never adequately explained.

Unless Destiny clears things up, but I'm betting this is one of those things that they're hoping we'll forget about.

Wounded_Dragon

03-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Wait a second. Rau was able to Spider-sense Mwu but then as Kira entered the scene, Rau sensed him as well. Is there also a connection between him and Kira?
I thought it was just because Kira was crappy at being stealthy.

rubberchicken

03-06-2005, 08:14 PM

Ah-ha!

KIRA WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO HIS LIGHT GEM!

ClockStomper

03-06-2005, 09:37 PM

Duke

03-06-2005, 11:06 PM

William C. Maune

03-06-2005, 11:19 PM

I wonder why the double standard exists...this show can't have real guns, but other Toonami shows can. Sure, you can't put lazers into Rurouni Kenshin continuity wise, but having multiple gun related deaths in one show and then a "no real guns allowed" policy in another is unfair.

I think it mainly has to do with context, and not so much the deaths (i.e. in SEED the laser guns are still allowed to hit people). The guns in Kenshin are from over 100 years ago and thus don't look very realistic. They aren't the kind of gun any kid today could find in the closet and play with. With Gundam SEED however, even though it takes place in the future, the handguns still look pretty similar to the handguns of today.

When it comes to S&Ps priorities, realisitic guns are probably one of the highest things on their list. Much more so than language, etc. If some kid hears some bad words on a show there may be an angry letter or two, but in the long run it is no big deal. However, if some dumb kid (i.e. like the ones that practice wrestling moves on their younger siblings) finds daddy's gun somewhere and decides to play with it because it looks just like the gun in their favorite cartoon, and ends up shooting someone, CN has a PR nightmare on their hands. There is less of a worry with something like Kenshin though since a kid isn't going to find, say, a gattling gun in the closet.

G1Ravage

03-06-2005, 11:49 PM

There is less of a worry with something like Kenshin though since a kid isn't going to find, say, a gattling gun in the closet.
And LOL if they did!

G1Ravage

03-06-2005, 11:51 PM

I lump it in with Bandai/Sunrise's overediting policies. This isn't the first Bandai/Sunrise series to be over-edited.
Bandai's editing policies? Why not WS's?

Duke

03-06-2005, 11:58 PM

Bandai's editing policies? Why not WS's?
Somehow I seriously doubt WS would paint neon-colored lights on the guns unless it's some sort of intentional joke.

KuwabaraTheMan

03-07-2005, 12:19 AM

Problem with your theory Maune. Zoids CC had realistic looking guns pointed at, fired, and held by children and they weren't edited.

Duke

03-07-2005, 12:31 AM

Problem with your theory Maune. Zoids CC had realistic looking guns pointed at, fired, and held by children and they weren't edited.
Van only held a gun as a kid (and even then, he was 17 in the dub) and wasn't really all that detailed. It didn't look fantastical, but not as realistic as Irvine's handgun (which he uses all of, what, twice? Every other time he has to throw it on the floor)

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 12:36 AM

Problem with your theory Maune. Zoids CC had realistic looking guns pointed at, fired, and held by children and they weren't edited.

Granted, I must say its been a little while since I watched Zoids: CC, but I don't remember much gun use. They might let things slide if the use is minimal.

Probably the bigger reason though is due to whatever company did the editing (it wasn't Cartoon Network and definitely not Bandai). Plus, Zoids: CC is an oddity as they allowed quite a few "hells" as well (which I don't mind mentioning since CN's rights have expired).

KuwabaraTheMan

03-07-2005, 12:36 AM

Van only held a gun as a kid (and even then, he was 17 in the dub) and wasn't really all that detailed. It didn't look fantastical, but not as realistic as Irvine's handgun (which he uses all of, what, twice? Every other time he has to throw it on the floor)
If 7 year old Raven can hold a gun, then I don't see how any arguement about bad examples for kids can be brought in, though.

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 12:38 AM

If 7 year old Raven can hold a gun, then I don't see how any arguement about bad examples for kids can be brought in, though.

What did the gun look like though? Was the gun ever fired? Context matters a lot. There are going to be a lot more bad examples for kids in a series with a lot of gun use and gun firings as opposed to a series with very little gun use in brief scenes.

Duke

03-07-2005, 12:38 AM

Plus, Zoids: CC is an oddity as they allowed quite a few "hells" as well (which I don't mind mentioning since CN's rights have expired).I think most of them were from the Hellcat Zoid. I forget if they were kept for Zero or not.

What did the gun look like though? Was the gun ever fired? Context matters a lot. There are going to be a lot more bad examples for kids in a series with a lot of gun use and gun firings as opposed to a series with very little gun use in brief scenes.
Do you have Zoids: CC Volume 6? It was the episode where the Blade Liger first appeared. Van shot the gun for about 5 seconds or so, they bounced off the Saber, then Van was flung into the Whirlwind of Light.

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 12:45 AM

I think most of them were from the Hellcat Zoid. I forget if they were kept for Zero or not.

There were some more "hell"'s in Guardian Force. Not many, but there were a few in the non-zoid context.

Do you have Zoids: CC Volume 6? It was the episode where the Blade Liger first appeared. Van shot the gun for about 5 seconds or so, they bounced off the Saber, then Van was flung into the Whirlwind of Light.

I only have the first four volumes so far, but I've been meaning to pick up 5 and 6. It sounds like the gun use there is a really quick scene, whereas in Gundam SEED the guns seem to be most edited in episodes with significant gun use.

Edit: Also, context would be important in another way here since Van was firing at a Zoid and not people.

KuwabaraTheMan

03-07-2005, 12:51 AM

But that's the point. Back in '02, gun usage and the word hell was perfectly fine on Toonami, and was left in on multiple runs of the show. Now, we can't even get a gun being pointed without it getting rediculous painting applied.

And given that guns did get fired at other people just as often as they have been in Gundam SEED(seriously, until this past episode, there hadn't been that many gun scenes and most of them were fairly brief except for Andy pointing the gun at Kira and Cagalli). Yet it got to stay back then.

Editing is getting worse, and this doesn't bode well for the future.

Plus, most scenes pre this episode were pointed but not fired(except for Murrue in ep 2 but she fired it in the air, which is no different than what the guys in Rosso's gang do in episode 8 for example).

Duke

03-07-2005, 12:54 AM

But that's the point. Back in '02, gun usage and the word hell was perfectly fine on Toonami, and was left in on multiple runs of the show. Now, we can't even get a gun being pointed without it getting rediculous painting applied.
Maune said Zoids: CC was an oddity because that's what it was: an oddity. No other Toonami show could say the word (I think 08th MS Team did once, but that was originally edited for midnight). Even "Oh My God!" was censored from pretty much every Toonami show sans the Batman/Superman shows.

Editing is getting worse, and this doesn't bode well for the future.
You're way to negative about all this. :shrug:

KuwabaraTheMan

03-07-2005, 12:57 AM

But WS could have painted the guns in CC if they wanted, yet they didn't. Now in SEED, they do. Why the change, unless standards are regressing?

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 12:58 AM

Editing is not getting worse. "Hell" was not perfectly fine on Toonami, it was just one show that some how got away with it here and there. It was still edited on every other show, and there were 5 other shows on the block at the time. Gun usage wasn't perfectly fine either. It was only allowed in certain contexts and was often edited down by cutting scenes (whereas in SEED they paint the guns instead of cutting scenes). I don't remember any amount of realistic gun use being close to the amount in SEED. There has been gun use, standoffs, pointing at other kids, gun battles, firings, etc., etc. in many episodes. I can't think of any other recent Toonami series that had realistic gun use that even approached that extent.

Duke

03-07-2005, 01:02 AM

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 01:03 AM

But WS could have painted the guns in CC if they wanted, yet they didn't. Now in SEED, they do. Why the change, unless standards are regressing?

The change is due to context and companies, not change in standards. Zoids: CC had a little gun use, but it never approached the realism and level of Gundam SEED. Different show, different context. Additionally, while Zoids:CC was an oddity in what it could get away with, Gundam SEED also seems to be an oddity on the other end of the spectrum. Language and etc. is edited out of SEED that is perfectly fine in a current show such as Yu Yu Hakusho.

Ultra8

03-07-2005, 01:36 AM

An interesting episode. The fight was intense and the connection between Rau and Mu has gotten even stranger, add in the fact that Kira's connected in some way just make things even more intriguing.

A+

Nextweek: Secrets and revelations look the name of the game next Fri, Plus it looks like Zaft, Natarle and the Stoner3 are gonna cause more trouble.

rubberchicken

03-07-2005, 01:57 AM

The closest I can think of is Gundam Wing, but that was back when nobody knew how to edit a show like that.

GW, by its very nature, was pretty minimal in the violence-towards-people department, though. Heero gets shot early on, and that one was shown in all its glory, minus the tiny bit of blood that was shown. One could argue that that was to demonstrate Heero's Invincibility Powers, though... and in any case, it was just a flesh wound and Heero was up and at 'em about five seconds later. Well, maybe ten.

There's a couple of "base raid" sequences where the boys and some OZ grunts fire at each other with machine guns - but nobody gets hit, so there wasn't much to worry about there, either.

Lady Une gets shot through the chest, although she too survives (grumble.) If I recall correctly, the actual shot was only heard, not seen - and then we see her fall down. Again, maybe the fact that she survived had to do with it...

But then there's General Septiem, shot through the head after being tossed from a jet. Sounds like overkill if you ask me, but... as I recall, this one was also shown uncut - but it was just shown as a long shot in which a streak of light went through the falling Septiem's head. I THINK that one made it through in one piece, although I'm not sure.

Wing had a couple of other oddities that set it apart from SEED: one being that the show aired uncut at night at the same time that it was being shown with its (relatively insignificant) cuts during the day. And again, there's the double-standard when you consider that it aired alongside DBZ, which even in the afternoon had its fair share of blood and people burning up in explosions - the majority of what was cut in Wing.

Cheesecake

03-07-2005, 05:28 AM

In WIng they had countless times were guns were shot by kids and were unedited. That bit where zechs kills that alliance officer was kept in and without any stupid disco lights added. That was the best way to edit if at all, just remove the blood, but ediitng concerning guns has got much worse on toonami and appears to be getting worse

Cheesecake

03-07-2005, 05:30 AM

The change is due to context and companies, not change in standards. Zoids: CC had a little gun use, but it never approached the realism and level of Gundam SEED. Different show, different context.
Thats just another way of saying " Toonami doesnt have any standards and practises they just dont know whatt he hell there doing and decide to eidt when they feel like it and dont actually follow any proper guidelines".

solarflere

03-07-2005, 07:36 AM

The closest I can think of is Gundam Wing, but that was back when nobody knew how to edit a show like that.
Toonami edited Gundam wing blood parts but not the gun parts. Heero pointing a gun on Relena was just as Zala pointing a gun on his son.

Lady Une gets shot through the chest, although she too survives (grumble.) If I recall correctly, the actual shot was only heard, not seen - and then we see her fall down. Again, maybe the fact that she survived had to do with it...

Both were uneditied, I have the Unreted box set of Wing.

Oh and SEED is not on Toonami anymore.

Duke

03-07-2005, 08:51 AM

Thats just another way of saying " Toonami doesnt have any standards and practises they just dont know whatt he hell there doing and decide to eidt when they feel like it and dont actually follow any proper guidelines".
Until you provide proof that Williams Street is the one doing the editing, I will continue to say Bandai is doing the editing.

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 12:50 PM

Thats just another way of saying " Toonami doesnt have any standards and practises they just dont know whatt he hell there doing and decide to eidt when they feel like it and dont actually follow any proper guidelines".

Not it isn't. Context is the key. To use a broader example, it's why comedic shows (i.e. the old Looney Tunes shorts, etc.) can get away with a lot more violence than action shows. The context in the two situations is completely different. The question regarding whether or not to edit a gun (or anything else) doesn't solely depend on the gun's existence. There are a whole range of other questions that need to be asked regarding the context of the situation, characters, show, etc., etc.

JohnCrichton

03-07-2005, 01:00 PM

Tell ya what? Since nobody is budging on the issue of disco guns, why don't we just DROP IT and talk about the episode itself?
I like this idea a lot.

I thought the episode was incredible, as is the series. I was previously unaware that a Gundam or giant robot anime could be this good. :anime:

GWOtaku

03-07-2005, 01:17 PM

posted by William C. Maune:

No it isn't. Context is the key. To use a broader example, it's why comedic shows (i.e. the old Looney Tunes shorts, etc.) can get away with a lot more violence than action shows. The context in the two situations is completely different. The question regarding whether or not to edit a gun (or anything else) doesn't solely depend on the gun's existence. There are a whole range of other questions that need to be asked regarding the context of the situation, characters, show, etc., etc. I agree, but its worth questioning whether contexts now compared to then are really all that different. For example in Gundam Wing Duo Maxwell could point an unedited gun at Heero Yuy and fire it (episode 2, toward the end, if you want to know), and on top of that the viewer is seeing the bullet travel right for Heero in slow motion. Conversly, in Gundam Seed you have Athrun and Cagalli--both similar ages to the aforementioned Gundam Wing characters--firing guns at each other, except that this time they've painted the guns with colors and lasers are added in. When I look at it from that standpoint, it is very difficult indeed for me to conclude that things haven't taken a backward step. It seems to me that there are indeed different standards for the same context, here.

Cheesecake

03-07-2005, 04:32 PM

Until you provide proof that Williams Street is the one doing the editing, I will continue to say Bandai is doing the editing.
But WS is repsonsible for telling them what to edit.

Duke

03-07-2005, 05:27 PM

But WS is repsonsible for telling them what to edit.CN is the one with the BS&P department, not WS. They get their limits from them and they have to approve the edits. And somehow I doubt CN funded the creation of the edited dub.

HellCat

03-07-2005, 05:42 PM

Until you provide proof that Williams Street is the one doing the editing, I will continue to say Bandai is doing the editing.
Not to support Cheesecake's constant soapbox rants, but it has been officially said that Bandai basically just produce a 'safer' version of the dialogue and CN do the rest. So CN/WS are responsible for the gun edits, both visual and audio.

William C. Maune

03-07-2005, 07:37 PM

I agree, but its worth questioning whether contexts now compared to then are really all that different.

While I definitely agree with this, as for whether standards are changing now I think other shows make a better comparison than Gundam Wing due to its unique position. Gundam Wing was the first of its kind to air on CN and thus at the time standards had not yet been set to deal with that kind of content, they just weren't necessary in the past. It was an experimental show, and none of the shows since Gundam Wing have really had the type of content allowed in Wing. Thus, those changes in standards likely took place 4-5 years ago in between the time when they got through editing Gundam Wing and when the standards were set for the next batch of shows.

MeggieMay

03-07-2005, 11:58 PM

Well, as I've said before I'm not Sampo, but here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/RizaHawkeye/bscap078.jpg) you go anyway.
Thanks Riza!

G1Ravage

03-08-2005, 12:42 AM

Not to support Cheesecake's constant soapbox rants, but it has been officially said that Bandai basically just produce a 'safer' version of the dialogue and CN do the rest. So CN/WS are responsible for the gun edits, both visual and audio.
"Safer" dialogue would be removing the swearing. But this sudden fear of all words pertaining to death and killing is really strange to me, unless that was just Bandai doing a "through" job when making the "safer" dialogue.

Of course, if the rumors of Saffron Henderson and Paul Dobson taking over the roles of Natarle and Rau just for the redubbed lines are true, then that would more than likely mean that the naughty lines were redubbed at a later time, and the original actors couldn't be brought in. If it was Bandai's intention all along to make a "safer" dub, you'd think they'd do it at the same time as the regular recording.

G1Ravage

03-08-2005, 12:46 AM

Lady Une gets shot through the chest, although she too survives (grumble.) If I recall correctly, the actual shot was only heard, not seen - and then we see her fall down. Again, maybe the fact that she survived had to do with it...

But then there's General Septiem, shot through the head after being tossed from a jet. Sounds like overkill if you ask me, but... as I recall, this one was also shown uncut - but it was just shown as a long shot in which a streak of light went through the falling Septiem's head. I THINK that one made it through in one piece, although I'm not sure.
In the Lady Une scene, we see her get shot, with the sound effect and everything, but the yellow "streak" that the bullet makes as it travels from the gun to her body was removed.

And with the General Septum scene, it was not only shown uncut, but it was in the Toonami PROMO as well! In fact, that 2-minute long promo for Wing is full of "forbidden" material. Everyone should download it from TDA if they haven't seen it yet.