Are all the women in the DCAU starting to look the same?

[CyberCubed]

After Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League, is anyone else starting to think that all the women are starting to look too similar?

It seems every woman has the same facial structure (which isn't a problem, as most shows do this) but with the increasing number of female superheroes appearing on Justice League a lot of them are looking far too similar.

It appears as though the only difference design wise of many are the shape of their bodies (height, size, etc.) and their hair style.

Now this also is somewhat apparent with the male superheroes with an example being Flash and the Atom in their costume look exactly the same from the mask down, the difference being the color of the costume and some other design differences. But since most of the male superheroes have different types of masks, this isn't that much of a problem.

Anyone else agree that the women are starting to look way to similar? Such as Barda looking like Wonder Woman with the exception of the height, hair style, and clothes? There are other examples I could use, but you can get the point I'm trying to make. Am I crazy or is anyone else having a problem with the lack of creativity with the facial features?

[Batman Fan]

Originally posted by CyberCubed
Are all the women in the DCAU starting to look the same?

After Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League, is anyone else starting to think that all the women are starting to look too similar?

It seems every woman has the same facial structure (which isn't a problem, as most shows do this) but with the increasing number of female superheroes appearing on Justice League a lot of them are looking far too similar.

It appears as though the only difference design wise of many are the shape of their bodies (height, size, etc.) and their hair style.

Now this also is somewhat apparent with the male superheroes with an example being Flash and the Atom in their costume look exactly the same from the mask down, the difference being the color of the costume and some other design differences. But since most of the male superheroes have different types of masks, this isn't that much of a problem.

Anyone else agree that the women are starting to look way to similar? Such as Barda looking like Wonder Woman with the exception of the height, hair style, and clothes? There are other examples I could use, but you can get the point I'm trying to make. Am I crazy or is anyone else having a problem with the lack of creativity with the facial features?

I agree, after having so many DCAU shows, some of the characters do look recycled or reused from other characters! Tonight being no exception, Barda and WW, very similar. My brother and I were watching the JLU episode tonight and he asked me if that was WW. Others I've noticed, not to much alike but you get the idea: Selina Kyle and Black Canary, Lois Lane and Zatanna, and Andrea Beaumont and Shayera. Not exactly alike but there are some resemblances.

[Phantasm]

no.Shayera and Andrea look nothing similar.Even their shade of red hair is different if I remember correctly.

And BC looks way prettier than the BTAS Selina.

[shoujoaifan]

Barda MIGHT be an exception, since her 1st DCAU appearance was on BB as a substitute for WW since they couldn't get WW due to legal issues, so they might've made them similair on purpose. GRANTED they could've tweaked her some for JLU. BB is awhile off and Barda might still be young then, but she could've aged a bit.

But yeah, alot of the designs are similiar. At first, I thought she looked like Lois Lane :p before thinking she looked like WW. They could be long lost triplets, born in different time and places ;)

Granted B.T. has his own unique style for men and women characters, so some overlap would happen, but they could afford to tweak some things here and there, like Barda's face, different hair styles, etc.

[Spectre]

I don't know... admittedly, all of b.t.'s female characters (at least, all the sexy ones) are united by that gorgeous hourglass figure that he draws so well. In fact, as I've grown more appreciative of such things, one of the reasons I love the DCAU shows so much is that they've always been the best at giving an animated woman a decent pair of hips, as opposed to the scrawny, top-heavy figurines you see in some other shows.

That being said, though, there are differences between them if you bother to look. Diana, for example, has a relatively long torso compared to some of b.t.'s other women, which helps accentuate her height. Shayera (and, come to think of it, Barbara) is a tad more bottom heavy; her hips seem wider than her shoulders, which isn't something that can be said for Diana.

Newer characters also tend to deviate more from the 'standard mold'. Vixen, for example, seems leaner, more muscular than the typical curvacious Timm girl. And Black Canary's gazongas are clearly more pronounced than the usual DCAU fare.

[PeterFries]

Well, if by "starting" you mean, "showing a similar design sensibility since Gotham Knights", then I guess so, but no more so than you could say all the women in the 70s Hanna Barbera cartoons or every female ever to appear in Japanese anime look the same.

The early B:TAS women all had the Lynne Naylor look to them, then the Shane Glines/Glen Murakami design aesthetic started creeping into the character models around the time of Gotham Knights and Superman. Justice League sort of refined the prototype male heroes and female heroes a bit, but if they look the same, it's just because they all conform to a similar design approach that the show takes toward the (super)human female form.

On the other hand, Murakami went in a totally different direction in design for Teen Titans -- are you classifying that as DCAU, or are you asking if all the women on Justice League blend together? I guess I just think that's probably true of any cartoon series that has an intern consistency of design...

[Style]

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/fearfulsymmetry/06.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/fearfulsymmetry/Pan13.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/hawkdove/15.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/wakethedead/Pan05.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/wakethedead/06.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/catcanary/Pan02.jpg

I don't think they look similar.

[Spectre]

I think Bruce Timm's ladies are the first females in an American cartoon that are actually as appealing as anime girls. In fact, I personally like them more than the women in some anime.

I mean, sure, someone like, say, Eclair has good assets. But Diana, Shayera, Vixen, Black Canary, and even the younger ones like Barbara or Karen all have that essential quality of va-va-voom that's so lacking in eastern animation.

There is, after all, a fine line between merely being 'hot', and dripping with sexiness.

[CyberCubed]

^ Heh, got me there.

It's something with the women of the same hair style/color. Such as Zatana looking like Lois Lane and Wonder Woman somewhat (in her casual clothes). With the exception of Vixen, all the others seem to only be distinguishable by their different hair styles/clothes and some slight facial features.

Supergirl's face is more "puffy" that say Wonder Woman's or Hawkgirl's. But otherwise it really is the same model being used for each character, just with the height changes and hair designs alterations.

[Spectre]

It's the same basic shape- the same hourglass concept- but hardly the same model for each one. How can you look at those pictures and say they're all the same model?

You may see cut-and-paste jobs, but I see variations on a theme.

[Sue]

Just to veer off-topic a little: the DCAU men don't look the same build-wise. For example, Green Lantern has a different build from Flash, who in turn has a different build from the Atom. I wouldn't say they're all interchangable.

[Funkatron]

-snip various DCAU hotties-
I don't think they look similar.
*nosebleeds*

Call a doctor!!

I definately see similarities and differences. More differences than similarities. And all very, very lovely. Another reason to watch the DCAU.

hmmm..Makes me wonder if bt is just another horny fanboy at heart:p

[DLM]

Nope. Not to sound belittling to anyone but I bet the ONLY reason someone might ask this question is because Barda and WW do look fairly similar and Barda was in this week's episode, but that is one pair of female characters amongst many. As Phantasm pointed out just look at the 4 redheaded major characters in the DCAU: Phantasm, Barb Gordon, Ivy, and Shayera. They are all pretty distinctive looking if you ask me... at least about as distinct as characters animated under a consistant style can.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I agree to some extent. When I saw Fire, it seemed like she was the silhouette of a typical DCAU female design that was green and had flames.

Hey, let's shave their heads and put them all in skintight costumes from head-to-toe and see if we can guess who's who. No points for figuring out which one Amanda Waller is.

[Kazuya]

I loved WW in the first season and a half or jla she was huge like an amazon should be,, I noticed in jlu she is a bit smaller any of you notice this?

[Anon190]

Definitely not. Besides all being in fantastic shape (saving the world all the time, you'd be too), the DCAU ladies all look different, not just body-wise.

Vixen: Longer and pointed face
Shayera: Heart-shaped face
Black Canary: Cheeks are rounded and more pronounced. Also, she's obviously bottom-heavier, which creates a stunning figure.
Diana: Her face is different in the fact that instead of curving to the edges of her eyes, her face curves at her mouth.
Zatanna: Zatanna's face doesn't meet the edges of her eyes (like Diana's), but instead curves between her nose and her mouth.

Wow. A mini-dissertation. If only I could get a job analyzing these sorts of things.

[DLM]

It would be cool to have a DCAU beauty pageant thread, except it would degenerate very quickly. For either women or men for that matter.

[Style]

*nosebleeds*

Call a doctor!!

I definately see similarities and differences. More differences than similarities. And all very, very lovely. Another reason to watch the DCAU.

hmmm..Makes me wonder if bt is just another horny fanboy at heart:p
I guess you haven't been to Bruce Timm's online art gallery, or as I call it, "bt's gift to the horny fanboy. :cool: "

[Arsenal]

I think we are hinting at a topic that may be deeper than we want. I think the arguable similarities of the female characters are endemic of the standard of beauty. Let me restate that with less jargon: these women look alike because almost all females in mass media look alike.

I am not accusing the DCAU of sexism, or at least not any more sexism than the rest of television. Women are ludicrously attractive --equipped with the hourglass figures, long legs, the "gazongas" etc. That having been said, I think Timm and company compensate by giving the female characters differentiated personalities.

Some DCAU female characters have been wonderfully empowered: Lois Lane, Poison Ivy, Andrea Beaumont, Wonder Woman (and no, her crush on Batman does not diminish her), Shayera, and Circe were all well done. Some are more problematic: Dana Tan existed to be taken hostage, and Supergirl is still jailbait (it doesn't help that CN keeps airing that gratuitious chest shot after commercial breaks). Galatea simultaneously skewed and embraced Power Girl's overendowment. The jury is still out on Vixen and Black Canary. Both have potential, and I don't want to be quick to condemn.

Even with my quibbles, the DCAU is still a leap ahead of the comics world. This summer we saw a woman disassemble the Avengers because she wanted children. We saw a woman commit a murder because she wanted her ex back. I guess my problem with the female designs is we will never be able to have a superheroine who isn't gorgeous, but that isn't the designers fault. Those are the restrictions of the patriarchy.

I'm going to get off of this soapbox now.

[Phantasm]

I guess my problem with the female designs is we will never be able to have a superheroine who isn't gorgeous, but that isn't the designers fault. Those are the restrictions of the patriarchy.

This is just plain unfair! And this super-beautiful heroines exist not only in the DCAU. Look up ANY of the Disney females and you'll be met by Beauty pagent contestants too. Now I realise that people in cartoons and action films, for the most part, are supposed to serve the part of eye candy.Naturally, the human eye is designed to be more kind towards something more attractive rather than something which is not.And media exploits it to its advantage.

At a personal level I can say that it causes problems. As a 6 year old Ariel fan, I remember constantly bugging my mom about how my hair wasn't all 'floaty' and red like Ariels! Or how I didn't have outrageously large blue eyes like her!:sweat: :o Unintentionally, probably, but these characters are prone to taking up the status of some kid's role model. And for an obsessed 1st grader, it is crushing to know that no matter how smart or kind and brave you are, you can never be as 'pretty' as they are. Sure yoy can be a princess by wearing Cinderella's dress but can u nessesarily be a 'beautiful' one?

Now DCAU people aren't that high on the ridiculously goody goody list, but their 'beauty' sometimes surpasses that of other animated characters.It certainly won't kill anyone if BC wasn't drawn so appealing.Just ground them a bit more into reality, visually atleast.:shrug:

[adoptedBatpuppy]

To me only, Tea and Kara look alike, probably, because Tea is the older version of Kara. Does it mean Kara would look like that when she is older? :cool:

[shoujoaifan]

When Hawkgirl first took off her mask, I was thinking:

"OMGWTF, this is SOOO cool, and dramatic, and it looks like they were lazy and used Poison Ivy's face by changing the hair color, and trying to make the hair look cool and unique but comes off forced when doing those fake looking bangs, dude this is SOOO cool...."

Granted some overlap is bound to happen, and I like HG's personality and characterization.

Look on the bright side: It COULD be worse. Some artists ONLY change the hair color/style and eye color. And has anyone seen Gundam SEED Destiny? All the teen boys share ONE face structure and the girls the same, and characters are literally created by new hair color/styles + eye color. I swear one blonde girl looks only different from another blonde girl due to style!

[lostrune]

This is just plain unfair! And this super-beautiful heroines exist not only in the DCAU. Look up ANY of the Disney females and you'll be met by Beauty pagent contestants too. Now I realise that people in cartoons and action films, for the most part, are supposed to serve the part of eye candy.Naturally, the human eye is designed to be more kind towards something more attractive rather than something which is not.And media exploits it to its advantage.
Yep. People would rather look at things beautiful than not, i.e. flowers over shrubs. Also, those productions are mostly led and drawn by men, so they'd rather draw things they like to see. Not that a woman lead would guarantee a change; just look at Sailor Moon (Takeuchi admits she likes her girls beautiful).

[shoujoaifan]

Yep. People would rather look at things beautiful than not, i.e. flowers over shrubs. Also, those productions are mostly led and drawn by men, so they'd rather draw things they like to see. Not that a woman lead would guarantee a change; just look at Sailor Moon (Takeuchi admits she likes her girls beautiful).Indeed, aesthics is powerful. Granted, some women may design their characters idealized over realistic due to marketing comments/requirements, or they do it themselves because they want to attract more people, and some men would also prefer a realistic form over an idealized one, and at the same time there's both men and women who like idealized for the sake of it. Nothing wrong with that:D

(BTW, am I using the word "idealized" right? I was using it to refer to a body that's physically possible, but is normally a 1-100,000,000 supermodel body they normally have to modify anyway, but I'm assuming it could be used for the GG-cup sized comic and anime/manga women with impossibly small waists as well, right? :sweat: )

Another example of a women artist with idealized, although technically possible, forms would be the person who does Inuyasha and did Ranma, etc. I don't know her reasons, but hey, it takes all kinds in this world, right? BESIDES, they're more or less realistic. Kagome is well developed for a middle-schooler, especially in the hot springs, but beyond that.......

[lostrune]

Another example of a women artist with idealized, although technically possible, forms would be the person who does Inuyasha and did Ranma, etc. I don't know her reasons, but hey, it takes all kinds in this world, right? BESIDES, they're more or less realistic. Kagome is well developed for a middle-schooler, especially in the hot springs, but beyond that.......
I'm not sure about the Inuyasha anime, but the Ranma 1/2 anime was due to character designer "Knocker-jima" (Nakajima). You could see how she "enhanced" manga artist's Rumiko Takahashi's original design from the first season on.

[shoujoaifan]

I'm not sure about the Inuyasha anime, but the Ranma 1/2 anime was due to character designer "Knocker-jima" (Nakajima). You could see how she "enhanced" manga artist's Rumiko Takahashi's original design from the first season on.Aah. ( I've only seen 2 episodes of the show :sweat: )

Another DCAU similarity is Black Canary and 10. They've more or less the same design with different clothes, with 10 being a teen and BC of course being adult with a fullgrown body.

[Crow]

I'll say what everybody else posting is afraid to say:

POST MORE PICTURES OF VARIOUS CHARACTERS SO WE CAN SCRUTINISE THE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES.

There, the sky hasn't fallen now has it?

[staticblue]

this is gonna sound silly, but Vixen aside, I always thought Black Canary had the body of the typical black woman. Big lips, Rounded cheeks, kinda short, thick thighs and huge butt. Thats not to say all black women look like that, cause..you know...Vixen doesnt. but I just thought Id say something

[Harley_Quinn]

I personally think they all have their own design within the b.t. style, I think they are all distintive, just my .02cents

[Killtacular]

I would even group men in there too. I started feeling this way when those little character photo images started popping up and they were so.. templated. Maybe Timm didn't make those but by the time JL was getting popular I still couldn't shake the feeling. But let's be fair. That's simply the problem of tightening up designs too much and then also simply having a LOT of shows in your resume. It kind of can't be helped. Especially because Bruce Timm does not ever seem to go off on a tangent when he designs characters.. he probably does in his spare time or his portfolio (does he even NEED one anymore? he could just walk into the interview room and say "I MADE BATMAN" and get a job) but not on TV. I think Timm should consider doing a non-DC or just a non-superhero TV show after JLU to sort of expand his versatility and create something fresh, but that's just me.

To be fair, the women designs in Duck Dodgers are far more generic (I believe they're all done by the awful Kirk Tingblad of "New Johnny Bravo" infamy).

[adoptedBatpuppy]

I personally think they all have their own design within the b.t. style, I think they are all distintive, just my .02cents
Well, nobody would watch the show if characters drawn, were abstract for example. :yawn: