The Batman "Bird of Prey" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

This morning at 10:30 a.m. ET, the feud between the Cobblepots and the Pennyworths continues as The Penguin preys on Alfred...

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/media/gallery/talkback.jpg (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/)
The Batman #11 - Bird of Prey
Original Airdate - February 12th, 2005

When Bruce Wayne is away for an interview, The Penguin and his Kabuki Twins travel to Wayne Manor, where they hold Alfred hostage. Can Bruce get back in time to save Alfred and put down the Twins and Penguin for a second time?

Comments?

[Style]

I always liked The Batman's take on Penguin. His sheer opposite nature from TNBA Penguin really has been intriguing. His oafish nature is at odds with his grand delusions, and it's almost always fun to see him strive against his own nature to be something he's not.

It's just unfortunate that this episode was rather procedural. While the premise of having a caper set in Wayne manor with reporters present seems promising, it was rather just another episode. Still, there are some memorable moments. I really appreciate that The Batman team is being more creative with the penguin's umbrella weapons, rather than just recycling the same ones we've been seeing since the Adam West series. The origin of Batman's Pseudo-name "The Dark Knight" was cute. And it seems that like his DCAU counterpart, Alfred secretly has a small desire to be like Batman himself.

I don't know. Maybe if effort could be made to make Penguin's next adventures more distinct and memorable, he could be one of the series better villains. And considering that The Batman's take on the Joker is a mess, a strong penguin can only be a good thing.

[Simpler Simon]

I can't honestly say that this episode was worse than last week's Joker episode, because this script at least has a bit of logic to it. However, it's just boring and forgettable to watch, wereas at least the Joker episode kept me entertained with its ill logic. The only upside here is that we find out Bruce's age and the term "Dark Knight" gets coined. Oh and Alfred in the costume is worth a snicker.

[Fone Bone]

It was just as good (or bad) as last week. Nothing really of note happened here but I agree with styl92 that the Penguin has a great opportunity to become a good villian on this series. This kind of reminded me of Batman Beyond's Sneek Peek only, y'know, not that good. If the Penguin hadn't spent so much time showboating for the cameras Bruce would have been unmasked and the show would have been over. That isn't something I can easily forgive.:p **1/2.

[TimTwoFace]

I, too, have always appreciated THE BATMAN's version of the Penguin. Aside from the upcoming Clayface appearance, I feel that Penguin has the best motivation and, amazingly, the deepest character - particularly due to his close ties with not only Batman but, even moreso, Bruce Wayne.

The coining of "The Dark Knight" was nice, too. A bit on the nose, but nice.

The episode still had its faults, though. The dialogue was generally OK, but the line about "liking the four seasons" was a pathetic set-up for a shameful "ESPECIALLY FALL!!!" one-liner. If all of that was taken out of the episode - and it'd be simple to do - I'd be happy.

I've no problem with Alfred in the Batsuit - it was a nice nod to the comics and particularly those horribly cheesy appearances of Alfred in the 60's Batsuit - cheesy because they were still so convincing. Why he took off the cowl, however - especially when there was a very good chance the film crew was still nearby - was a dumb mistake.

Overall, though, I still thought this was one of the better episodes of the series, so 3.5 stars.

-Tim

[mr jinx]

considering that i think the penguin is one of the lamest big name villians of all time (along with the vulture), this episode wasnt too bad. the "unmasking scene" was a little too long, but at least the penguin seemed reasonably formidable.

[paulie]

**1/2

Pretty standard "The Batman" fare...nothing spectacular. The best part of the episode was seeing somebody with a moustache wearing a cowl, heh.

And I agree that Penguin's weapons were pretty creative. Animation was good as always. Dialogue was poor as always.

[Batman Fan]

***

Pretty good the Batman episode. As always I liked the fight scenes a lot. Penguin's umbrella weapons were really cool too. The whole unmasking Batman thing was way too long and Alfred's interference was kinda of a give away. Still hate the dialogue and the green sky, yuck. Alfred's clumsiness was nice as he knocked the video tape in the fire and him dressing like Batman negated his interference in the unmasking of Batman at the first part, way to go Alfred:D

Penguin just couldn't seem to keep his pants on in this episode, literally! The plot seem to drift between exciting to boring but all in all one of the better episodes of the series.

[creativerealms]

The Penguin's weapons were better this time then in the last episode where his Lazer whip chain would cut though everything but human flesh.

I too like the Penguin's motavation in the Batman but I feel that the "Batman returns" style Penguin is incorect for this version.

I liked this a little better then the first Penguin episode and the far better then last weaks weak episode. 3.5

[Cliff24275]

I thought this was an ok episode. The Penguin is probobly the best developed villian so far. His umbrella weapons were really cool, and made the fight scenes pretty good, wish we saw a little more action with his clawed helpers though. The episode didn't really go anywhere though, it was fairly similar to the previous penguin episode. One nitpick I have is with the inference that Penguin is insane. Last week, the Arkham psychologist guy mentioned him, and penguin ended up in a straight jacket at the end of this episode. I thought that one of Penguin's distinction was that he was one of the few sane sane Batman villains.

[CyberCubed]

This show is very campy, and this episode was amusing to watch because of how ridiculous the plot was.

Heck, the News reporter people just walked right up to Batman when those two robot samurai wolverine things were about to kill Alfred, as well as Penguin screaming "I AM A COBBLEPOT!" in Alfred's face.

Like the old Adam West Batman, this show is just amusing to laugh at the campiness.

[Loren]

This episode struck me as rehashing a lot of material from the first Penguin episode. He's using birds to burgle at the start, he decides to reclaim his good family name by being a crook, he ties up Alfred, and he has a big fight with Batman in a mansion. We get the odd Kabuki twin goons again.

And he KOed Batman with a single punch. I'm not sure whether that's more or less believable than when he jumped 20 feet into the air.

I agree that Penguin's rambling was interminable while he was unmasking Batman. He had a good buildup before the commercial break, ending with him holding Batman's head. Then it came back from commercial, and he's standing up and giving a short lecture before he finally pulls off the mask.

Along those lines, we've had eleven episodes of this series so far. How many have included "Batman's secret identity is endangered" as a plot point in one way or another?

Most of the jokes fell flat for me, and they sure were trying with the TV setup. I did laugh at the "Sylvia?", "No, this is Penguin," "Is this 555-" banter. And mustachioed Batman. But Queer Eye for the Batguy was dumb.

"We'll win the Pulitzer Prize for this." No, you won't. The Pulitzer is for printed journalism. Television and radio journalism is rewarded with the Peabody.

And then a few minutes later, the reporter has the revelation that Bruce and Batman haven't been seen together. But why should they? Bruce never gave an indication that he was headed back to his house; she presumed that and let herself in. And with the exception of Alfred, Penguin, and the cameraman, the same "you weren't in the same place" rationale applies to every man in Gotham.

In the end, though, "forgettable" sums this episode up more than anything else.

I also thought of a way to analogize the two Batman cartoons to comics. BTAS was Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is the equivalent of Marvel Age Batman.

Loren

[Loren]

The Penguin's weapons were better this time then in the last episode where his Lazer whip chain would cut though everything but human flesh.
That reminds me. Bruce had a variation on that weapon in this episode. He had some sort of laser pen that he pointed at himself to cut his metal chains, but it didn't affect his chest underneath.

Loren

[Fone Bone]

Excellent assessments as always, Loren. Please post more often.:)

[Spider-Man]

I caught this today and thought I'd give the show another try. I thought it was pretty good but I really don't like The Penguin. I think the story they gave him is a bit better but I find him incredibly annoying. This seemed more like a run-of-the-mill episode than anything.

[punkrockgirl]

I thought having Penguin in the big-nosed Hannibal Lecter mask at the end was pretty funny, as was the phone conversation with Bruce - "Sylvia?" "No. This is Penguin." LOL! For the most part I dislike "The Batman", but there are some pretty good comedic bits here and there.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

"I AM A COBBLEPOT!" I was like "more like a crack pot" :D

This show is very campy, and this episode was amusing to watch because of how ridiculous the plot was.

Heck, the News reporter people just walked right up to Batman when those two robot samurai wolverine things were about to kill Alfred, as well as Penguin screaming "I AM A COBBLEPOT!" in Alfred's face.

Like the old Adam West Batman, this show is just amusing to laugh at the campiness.

finally somebody who gets it! :)

"We'll win the Pulitzer Prize for this." No, you won't. The Pulitzer is for printed journalism. Television and radio journalism is rewarded with the Peabody.

.
.
.

I also thought of a way to analogize the two Batman cartoons to comics. BTAS was Ultimate Batman. "The Batman" is the equivalent of Marvel Age Batman.

Loren

Even though it isn't "ultimate Batman" like BTAS, that is no excuse for lazy writing. The Pulitzer thing bothered me as well. I can at least agree on that point. I think we need to remember what watching cartoons was like when where seven ;)

[90'sCartoonMan]

I liked this episode, for the most part. I think Penguin is my favorite The Batman villain because his motivation is understandable. And in his return appearance, his dialogue isn't as annoying, and his weapons are cooler. But...are we going to be seeing this Kabuki Twins with him all the time?

Annoying reporter, unfortunately. I liked the idea, but she just...annoyed me. She sure likes to jump around with her ideas. Maybe Batman is Bruce Wayne? "Dark night" becomes Dark Knight. Kinda weird.

Wait, did they say Batman is 26? And he started his career three years ago...when he was 23? As if I didn't feel bad enough...

[Cobblepot1982]

I truthfully though it was one of the best episodes to date. The Penguin, in case y'all haven't figured out, IS my favorite Batman villain, and I thought they gave the show a good plot, with a good character development for Penguin, as well as cool new umbrella gadgets for him. The reporter got on my nerves, but I thought they made good use of the humor for the episode, and was just all-around well done, overall.

[Kazuya]

Try as I did for 6 episodes this is not Batman its Spiderman pretending to be Batman, When did the Joker become jamaican?

[lostrune]

1. Doesn't the Wayne Mansion have a damn gate?! Seems anyone can just park at the front door. :rolleyes:

2. So, Bruce is 26 yrs old. :)

3. And the reporters just walked right thru the front door. No security too! :yawn:

4. Heh, why didn't Batman helped Alfred free? Just drop a sharp batarang near Alfred's hand or something. :sad:

5. So, the reporter lady is getting suspicious. Time for Bruce to put on his charms again? :sweat:

6. Wow, another reckless Batman stunt - Alfred returning the Batmobile right in front of Bruce! Where were the reporters? :eek:

[shany94a]

I actually liked this episode - better than "Topsy Turvy", anyway. This version of Penguin doesn't even try to be suave and sophisticated like his BTAS counterpart - he's a greedy, jealous, hateful little thug, and can actually handle himself physically. (Not sure about him decking Batman with one punch, though he can put a lot of weight behind his blows.) The spinning umbrella trick was neat, and so was the shot of Alfred as Batman on the roof of Wayne Manor - I liked that particular deception of Bruce-is-not-Batman better than the one that was used in the Hugo Strange episode of BTAS.

[creativerealms]

1. Doesn't the Wayne Mansion have a damn gate?! Seems anyone can just park at the front door. :rolleyes:

2. So, Bruce is 26 yrs old. :)

3. And the reporters just walked right thru the front door. No security too! :yawn:

4. Heh, why didn't Batman helped Alfred free? Just drop a sharp batarang near Alfred's hand or something. :sad:

5. So, the reporter lady is getting suspicious. Time for Bruce to put on his charms again? :sweat:

6. Wow, another reckless Batman stunt - Alfred returning the Batmobile right in front of Bruce! Where were the reporters? :eek:
Wayne mannor has never had Security besides Alfred really, mainly because Bruce would have to trust those people with his secret. I Agree with you on the gate and why did he not help Alfred points.

[Spectre]

A far superior episode to last week's, and perhaps even better than Penguin's intro ep, despite that one's ultra-cool climactic battle.

I'll agree with the general sentiment that Penguin is, as a character, far more interesting here on The Batman than he's been on BTAS. That rant of his to Alfred, culminating in his "I AM A COBBLEPOT!!" declaration make his motivation quite clear: status. This Penguin wants to be as suave, sophisticated, debonair as his TNBA counterpart; he wants to be the toast of the town, to reclaim the glorious heritage of his once-proud name. But the prestige of the Cobblepot line is gone, and instead, the Waynes (from Penguin's perspective, a family of upstarts) occupy the social position that Oswald sees as rightfully his.

Heck, he can't even be the king of the underworld- thanks to the Batman. In Penguin's eyes, it could be argued, he hates them both equally because they sit on the twin thrones of Gotham City- Bruce Wayne is at the top of the social ladder, and Batman rules the lawless night.

I'm glad they toned down Penguin's martial arts for this episode, while ramping up his umbrella weapons.

Liked seeing Bruce's day through the eyes of that camera woman, too. She sure was a cutthroat news reporter, wasn't she? Willing to go along with the Penguin's schemes and dishonor Batman by making a spectacle out of his unmasking.

Oh, and Alfred's 'clumsiness' was anything but. He purposefully knocked that tape into the fire as it bounced in his direction; you could tell by the tone of his voice when he said "Oops! Clumsy me."

Liked the birth of Batman's 'Dark Knight' pseudonym. Of course, Bruce had already toyed with the title himself, if we can believe his "Knight takes bishop" line from 'Q&A'.

Also enjoyed seeing Alfred dressed up as Batman. Do you think The Batman's writers have flipped through the BTAS Writers' Bible at least once?

A solid four stars. Now for the two-part finale with Clayface, which I'm told is excellent....

[lostrune]

Wayne mannor has never had Security besides
What I meant by "security" can be as simple as a door lock - just so simple reporters can't get in uninvited. :shrug:

[Loren]

I'll agree with the general sentiment that Penguin is, as a character, far more interesting here on The Batman than he's been on BTAS. That rant of his to Alfred, culminating in his "I AM A COBBLEPOT!!" declaration make his motivation quite clear: status. This Penguin wants to be as suave, sophisticated, debonair as his TNBA counterpart; he wants to be the toast of the town, to reclaim the glorious heritage of his once-proud name. But the prestige of the Cobblepot line is gone, and instead, the Waynes (from Penguin's perspective, a family of upstarts) occupy the social position that Oswald sees as rightfully his.
That motivation might have done more for me if it wasn't for the backstory that Alfred gave in the first Penguin episode.

IIRC, Alfred said that the Cobblepots were big-time aristocrats in Britain (and whom the Pennyworths served), until the family lost their wealth and left the country. I can't remember if he ever said how long ago that happened (i.e. whether Penguin is the first or second poor generation).

This created what I thought was something of a plot hole in the first episode: a Cobblepot Manor in Gotham City. If they were from England, and lost their fortune before coming to America, then why is there a family manor in an American city? (And why is it filthy and abandoned? If Oswald owns it, he must have *some* wealth to his name. If the family lost it, then why wasn't it sold when they went broke?)

And the consequences of Alfred's story carry over into this episode. If the Cobblepots were never established upper-crusters in America, then why does Penguin focus his hatred on an American millionaire?

This also reminds me of another little quibble I had with the episode, and the series overall. When Penguin sees the TV commercial, the voiceover refers to Bruce as a "socialite" with a "larger-than-life public persona."

I wish the show would make up its mind about Bruce's public life. We've seen him at a basketball game, and throwing a "fundraiser" (which looked suspiciously like a rave full of 20-somethings). These are apparently what the "socialite" and "public persona" references are to. But in scenes with him and Alfred, Bruce is continually refusing to do public engagements, and Alfred chews him out for never doing anything. He refuses to date. He's a little too anti-social to be a well-known, popular city socialite.

Liked seeing Bruce's day through the eyes of that camera woman, too. She sure was a cutthroat news reporter, wasn't she?
I thought her behavior at the very start of the day's interview was incredibly off-putting. She practically tells Bruce "I'm planning to embarrass you on TV." How does she continue finding willing subjects with that attitude?

Oh, and did anyone else look at the episode's credits? My reception wasn't great, but it appeared to say that Tom Kenny played "The Riddler."

Loren

[Loren]

With just two episodes left in the season, a lingering thought...

Back in the pilot, we were introduced to Chief Angel Rojas (voiced by Edward James Olmos), the Gotham City police chief who declared the Batman to be an outlaw who he wanted hunted down. I remember the character being brought up in a TV Guide interview or somesuch. Personally, I thought his introduction was pretty dull and forgettable, but thought that maybe they'd improve him.

In the 10 episodes since the pilot, has Chief Rojas ever appeared again? Even in a cameo? Or did his character and "Catch the Batman" ultimatum just get lost along the way?

Loren

[creativerealms]

He will play an important part in the next two episodes.

[sdp]

The dialogue was generally OK, but the line about "liking the four seasons" was a pathetic set-up for a shameful "ESPECIALLY FALL!!!" one-liner. If all of that was taken out of the episode - and it'd be simple to do - I'd be happy.


-Tim I'm starting to think it's just hate to the series because it's not Timms batman, sure some designs are weird, but so are some BTAS, it does focus more on the action, but enemies still get a back story that is interesting.

And some of the one liners, well, so does timms universe, in fact i recall in one episode they go "Aren't you alittle early for halloween?" "No, i'm just in time for Fall", and he drops from the building...

[Fone Bone]

I'm starting to think it's just hate to the series because it's not Timms batman, sure some designs are weird, but so are some BTAS, it does focus more on the action, but enemies still get a back story that is interesting.

And some of the one liners, well, so does timms universe, in fact i recall in one episode they go "Aren't you alittle early for halloween?" "No, i'm just in time for Fall", and he drops from the building...Yeah, but that was Terry in Rebirth so it was in character. The sheer amount of puns they give Bruce Wayne in this version is embarrassing.

[Style]

I'm starting to think it's just hate to the series because it's not Timms batman, sure some designs are weird, but so are some BTAS, it does focus more on the action, but enemies still get a back story that is interesting.

And some of the one liners, well, so does timms universe, in fact i recall in one episode they go "Aren't you alittle early for halloween?" "No, i'm just in time for Fall", and he drops from the building...
Ofcourse people hate it because it's not a b.t. Batman. Back before the series even premeired, I teased out this truth myself. A couple of people have said things along the lines that even if it were a brilliant, competent, original but faithful take on Batman, or if the series got better, that they would still root for it to fail, because people here just don't want a new Batman period. They want Timms.

This sentiment even spills into the new movie. While Batman Begins is shaping up to be head and shoulders above the previous Batman films, people still hate on it, because it's not Bruce Timm's Animated Batman. Too be fair, the new movie is doing things I don't agree with, but I can't elaborate on that with talking about spoilers.

The thing is though, The Batman has been disappointing enough to warrant a good amount of critiscism. But the "hate it just cause it's different" has caused some people to way overboard about it though. It will be interesting when this supposedly much improved season finale airs, to see if people will give it a chance or not.

[raykremer]

That's right, waste time tying up the unconscious hero before removing his mask.

This was more of a pedestrian formulaic Batman than most of the other suck-fest epsiodes of The Batman have been. Of course, the best of The Batman is worse than the worst B:TAS had to offer.

It's not even worth it for the camp. The old Adam West show is incredibly juvinile, so being like that scores The Batman no points.

"Dark night" indeed.

[Cortez2301]

Not bad despite what others say.I loved the action but it was too violent.The alfred dressup was hillarious.I assume it was borrowed from the 60s series.