Justice League Kids: The DCAU Show That Could Have Replaced Justice League

[Karkull]

I made an astounding discovery today related to the Justice League series' birthing process. I'll get to it in a moment, but first a brief history lesson.

As we all know, initially Bruce Timm was hesitant to go ahead with a Justice League series. He went as far in interviews to say that it would never happen. However, when Batman Beyond was winding down and he was suddenly faced with the prospect of losing his creative team, Timm started thinking about potential shows to work on next. Now, the spectre of a "young Justice League show" has been brought up several times by Kids' WB execs, who wanted to skew younger but keep their cash cow Batman handy. Here is the first known permutation of the idea -- pre-Beyond -- courtesy of Bruce Timm and Comicology Magazine:

"That was something that was pitched to us; we didn't come up with that concept. We had a meeting, like, two years ago now, with Jamie Kellner, who's head of the WB network, and there was some concern that Batman had just been around a little bit too long in its current incarnation, even with the revamped look and everything. The shows did really, reall well ratings-wise, but [the WB execs] kinda felt that we'd been riding that train for a long time, and there was also a concern that the show was skewing a little bit older than they would've liked, because the advertising is aimed at children. So they were just talking about ways of freshening the show and [...one of the potential ideas] was [a] Batman and the junior Justice League, which we didn't like.

"He'd be training Aquaman Jr. and Wonder Woman Jr. and...by the time we got to that one, our heads were spinning, and we were thinking, 'We don't want to do any of those. What do we do? We gotta come up with something quick.' And, kind of on the spur of the moment, I said, 'What if we set [a Batman series] in the future?"

Then, after Batman Beyond, it was brought up again, as recorded by Timm for the website Zap2It:

"What [the WB network] was really interested in doing was Batman training a bunch of junior superheroes."

This desire for a "Justice League Kids" show was largely due to corporate thinking, as mentioned by Paul Dini in an interview with [website name removed]:

"Everybody wants to see [a straight Justice League adaptation] and we would like to do it, but the suits at the network keep pounding it in that it's the Kids' WB! If we were to do Justice League, all they see is a bunch of adults in suits."

Fortunately Cartoon Network stepped in, bought the show that we would come to know and love, and the rest is history. Case closed? No way.

Today I recieved Retro-Vision CD Rom Magazine (http://www.retrovisionmag.com/) #1 in the mail, which features an excellent Justice League series guide, complete with details on production that I'm still poring over (buy it!!!). Anyway, in the article preceeding the guide, co-producer James Tucker once again went over the show's creation. However, this time, he dropped this telling nugget of information of what might have been rather than our beloved League series. As it turns out, not only did the junior League idea come up again, but we could have also had an anime-inspired Batman series:

"Development was done on a Batman Anime show that kind of reflects on what Teen Titans is now. And we developed a more youth-oriented version of Justice League. Thank God both of those projects never happened, although there's a tape out there of a very kiddified Justice League that included Robin and a teenage female version of Cyborg. It was our attempt to try and do something that wasn't as edgy or as dark as we would normally want to go. At the time, Kids' WB totally passed on the Batman Anime idea and we actually did test animation for the Justice League idea."

Think of the ramifications of this: not only is this an amazing bit of trivia, but there is a second, earlier piece of test animation for the Justice League show! Remember that minute of footage that was an Easter Egg on the Justice League: Paradise Lost DVD? That was the pilot for what the series would become. Imagine the notion of an earlier pilot that features a bizarro mash of Justice League and Teen Titans and features Batman, Robin, and a female Cyborg! The mind boggles.

I can only hope that this tape surfaces sometime in the future, either for a future DVD release or simply as a bootleg that we can watch, digest, and endlessly speculate over on these message boards. Wow.

[Style]

My...God. That's the worst-or greatest-idea ever. I'm almost afraid for that test footage to surface, yet morbidly curious all the same.

Actually, careful reading of the article makes me believe that the Batman anime and Justice League/Teen Titans hybrid were two separate projects, so Batman may not have been in that JL show after all.

[Karkull]

The "Batman Anime" and the "Justice League Kids" pitches were two separate shows, but Batman would have been involved in either show. The WB suits were interested in Batman training a junior League, so Batman probably would have been involved in the "League" show.

[b.t.]

god, i'd forgotten all about this...

when we first started talking about JL, the powers that be felt that it should be pitched to kids wb first...knowing their preference for younger heroes, i was hesitant to go there, but we prepared test animation of the "female cyborg" character (glen's idea, if i remember right), and impulse too, i believe, just in case...the robin footage was just just clips from TNBA, i think....

anyhow, kids wb (thankfully, in retrospect!) passed on the BATMAN ANIME pitch...it was a VERY kiddified batman concept, but still not "pokemonized" enough for them....after the pitch meeting, the powers that be realized kids wb wasn't likely to go for JL, even with a couple of young ringers in the line-up, and we were given the go-ahead to pitch it to cartoon network...we cut the "jr. jl" clips from the presentation reel, and subsequently forgot all about 'em.... i have no idea where that footage is now, and it's probably no great loss....

as it turned out, cn never even saw the JL presentation reel, but bought the series just based on a single phone call....

[Karkull]

So this "early test animation" was originally part of the presentation reel that appeared on the DVD? Interesting...so it really was going to be a League/Titans hybrid team. It would also explain why you guys recycled the Flash footage from the STAS episode -- the original pitch called for Impulse, but he was replaced with the Flash for the Cartoon Network pitch!

So, the League could have been Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, J'onn J'onzz, Hawkgirl, Robin, Impulse, and Cyborg? Wild...

[b.t.]

The "Batman Anime" and the "Justice League Kids" pitches were two separate shows, but Batman would have been involved in either show. The WB suits were interested in Batman training a junior League, so Batman probably would have been involved in the "League" show.

it does get a bit confusing:

the "batman training the jr. jl" thing was just something that was verbally batted around five minutes before we came up with the BATMAN BEYOND concept in jaimie kellner's office..."batman anime" was a completely seperate concept developed by glen, alan, adam warren and me several years later...the "jl/titans hybrid" was a gimmick that we thought might make the jl concept more palatable to kids wb...the idea being that it would be a pretty straight "jl" show, but with a group of younger heroes also on the team, learning the ropes...sounds VERY "superfriends", don't it? and yes, batman would have been on the show...

[Style]

it does get a bit confusing:

the "batman training the jr. jl" thing was just something that was verbally batted around five minutes before we came up with the BATMAN BEYOND concept in jaimie kellner's office..."batman anime" was a completely seperate concept developed by glen, alan, adam warren and me several years later...the "jl/titans hybrid" was a gimmick that we thought might make the jl concept more palatable to kids wb...the idea being that it would be a pretty straight "jl" show, but with a group of younger heroes also on the team, learning the ropes...sounds VERY "superfriends", don't it? and yes, batman would have been on the show...So... what was the impetus for Batman anime? The sense that Batman Beyond was coming to an end, and it was just a desparate effort to get Kids WB to by something from you guys?

Oops, that sounded insulting. I didn't mean it that way.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

The "jl/titans hybrid" was a gimmick that we thought might make the jl concept more palatable to kids wb...the idea being that it would be a pretty straight "jl" show, but with a group of younger heroes also on the team, learning the ropes...sounds VERY "superfriends", don't it? and yes, batman would have been on the show...

I like the sound of that. It certainly would have been an interesting show, and I'm sure a lot more "fun and light" then what we did get. It might still make a cool idea for a spin off of JLU :)


did the batman anime lead to The batman ?

[Style]

did the batman anime lead to The batman ?
Actually, if I read it right, and Murakami was the leading force behind it, Then Batman Anime actually lead to Teen Titans. The anime-isms probably suit them a lot better than they would have Batman.

As for The Batman, it's quality issues are actually of a whole different set than wanting to be "pokemon-ized..."

[Hordesman]

It's awesome hearing abotu unused concepts. You guys ever hear of this one? http://members.aol.com/sarahdyer/starriders/wwstar.htm

[FALLEN ELDOR]

Actually, if I read it right, and Murakami was the leading force behind it, Then Batman Anime actually lead to Teen Titans. The anime-isms probably suit them a lot better than they would have Batman.

As for The Batman, it's quality issues are actually of a whole different set than wanting to be "pokemon-ized..."

I was talking about purely on the basis of artisitic style over story telling. but yeah TT is waaaaaay more crapanime then The Batman :sad:

It's awesome hearing abotu unused concepts. You guys ever hear of this one? http://members.aol.com/sarahdyer/starriders/wwstar.htm

yes i have mt fellow member of The Evil Horde ;)

[Style]

I was talking about purely on the basis of artisitic style over story telling. I'm still not sure what your getting at. It might be fair to say that Batman Anime might have been similar to The Batman as style over story telling, but there's still no direct link or reason to say that the Batman Anime pitch lead to devolopment of The Batman. They are different projects undertaken by different people.



but yeah TT is waaaaaay more crapanime then The Batman :sad:

Now, that's not what I said. Or at least, not the terms I used. But still, it's probably healthier for my Toonzone membership if I just let this slide with the disclaimer that that was not my opinion.

[Kazuya]

Dont we allready have jla kids in Teen Titans?

[Style]

Dont we allready have jla kids in Teen Titans?
Have you watched Teen Titans? Because statements like "Teen Titans is a kiddie version of Justice League" tend to stop when you do.

[Kazuya]

Have you watched Teen Titans? Because statements like "Teen Titans is a kiddie version of Justice League" tend to stop when you do.Yes I love Teen Titans but I would rather have JLU and TT than JLUkids and TT.
I dont think I could handle all the teenagers if that was the case.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

stly92, I never said it did. I asked b.t. if it did because WB wanted something new and different and that's what they got with The Batman. lets not put words into each other's mouth, but we both know that TT is anime weather either of us like it or not. With that said, i'm saying it now, I don't like that anime influence one bit!

[b.t.]

So... what was the impetus for Batman anime? The sense that Batman Beyond was coming to an end, and it was just a desparate effort to get Kids WB to by something from you guys?


basically, yeah...

when BB was originally coming to a close, kids wb asked us if we had any ideas on how to do a more "kid-friendly" batman show...alan burnett and hilary bader worked up a (i kid you not) "batman on mars" pitch, which was basically just a continuation of BB...terry moves to a colony on a terraformed mars and has kid-friendly adventures there...i was really relieved when kwb showed no interest in it, as i just HATED the concept....

so glen and i were mulling it over and took it as a challenge: was there a way to give kwb EXACTLY the kind of show they wanted, but still make it something that was freaky enough to be fun in its own right? we thought, "okay, rather than doing something that's just a 'baby-step' away from our previous shows, still tied to our direct continuity, etc, what if we do something that's REALLY whacked, that takes place SO far in the future, it's barely related to what we've done before"....("plausible deniability" played a factor here too)...

"pokemon" was still super-hot at kwb, so we tried to combine elements of it and other "collect 'em all" anime shows ("cardcaptors", "digimon", etc) with traditional batman elements....we brought adam warren in to help develop it with us (he ended up doing most of the art for the pitch, too)...it took place hundreds of years from now, and revolved around the adventures of an all-new batman, robin and batgirl, all in their early teens....there was some kind of nano-disaster that re-wrote reality, re-creating the old bat-villain archetypes as nano-based monsters....the kids had a butler a.i. named "alpha-red" (that one was just so tacky, we HAD to do it) who also powered all their vehicles...kenner had been urging us for years to put a talking vehicle a la "knight rider" in one of our shows (they originally wanted us to put a "jor-el" voice chip in clark kent's sportscar in STAS, so he could converse with clark, brando-style), so the talking "alpha-red/batmobile" was a no-brainer....do i have to go on?

anyhow, kenner LOVED the whole pitch, wanted to get started on the toy-line "yesterday!", but kwb thought it was still too "traditional", it wasn't "out of the box" enough..."batman's still too re-active...does he have to fight crime?" i pointed out that he would be fighting MONSTERS, not criminals.... "what if, instead of three kids who fight monsters, what if the three kids COMPETE about who gets to BE batman?" after a long moment of stunned silence i pointed out that if batman's not protecting the weak from the bad guys, be they monsters or criminals or aliens or what-have-you, then fundamentally, it just isn't "batman" AT ALL.....they allowed that there was probably some truth to that, asked us to give the whole thing some more thought, and invited us to come back and re-pitch it then.....the next day, i called mike lazzo at cn, pitched jl, he said "hell yeah!" and that was the end of BATMANIME...

[Kazuya]

Bruce what were you guys smoking lol,,Sounds weird but cool at the same time. Whats your thoughts on the new The Batman cartoon,, I sat through a few Ep's but they are so bad I stopped watching so sad couse I love Bats so.

[Aberration]

Crazy as it sounds, I'd actually buy a "Batman Anime" one-shot if you guys would do it (a la "Marvel Mangaverse") :D

So what happened to the artwork that Adam Warren did for the pitch?

[All-Star 1.5]

I think the best pitch was the JL/TT one. I mean it sounds alot like a JLU before there was a JLU except more character based,with more teenagers, and less characters. But other then that it sounds like a cool concept very similar to X-Men Evolution and Johns' run on Teen Titans in that older heros are training younger ones. In fact the only thing I don't like is the female Cyborg I mean nothing beats the orginial.

But again i'm glad you and co. are doing JLU.

So, b.t exactly how many concepts and pitches did you guys throw at the network befor they decided on JL and TT respectivly? And where does Batman:Wired fit into all of this?

[efumf]

Bruce what were you guys smoking lol,,Sounds weird but cool at the same time. Whats your thoughts on the new The Batman cartoon,, I sat through a few Ep's but they are so bad I stopped watching so sad couse I love Bats so. Ask him again in 10 years ;)

This is the most fascinating thread I've ever read. I THANK GOD for Cartoon Network :sweat:

And the Batman and friends in the distant future idea sounds even worse than Terry on Mars... Turning Batman into a complete Pokemon rip off would be unforgivable! When you say the Mars adventures would be "kid-friendly" what do you mean exactly? I can't imagine how that concept could be any kiddier than the 3 preteens fighting monsters pitch. :eek:

It's incredible how much these guys have working against them while they're trying to put out quality entertainment. Having to fight the suits every step of the way :(

[WonderRaver]

It's awesome hearing abotu unused concepts. You guys ever hear of this one? http://members.aol.com/sarahdyer/starriders/wwstar.htm
I really wish that "WW&TSR" had come to pass, if only for some media attention for my favorite heroine and lots of merchandising! The show itself would've been horrible.

Here is another cartoon that was close to being made: http://www.titanstower.com/source/theater/nttanimated.html.

All of those Bat-spinoffs sound really cheesy and odd. I don't know if I could've handled them. :D

[Bird Boy]

anyhow, kenner LOVED the whole pitch, wanted to get started on the toy-line "yesterday!"...

I'm beginning to see where they (Kenner/Hasbro) got the idea for the completely random "Batlink" toy line, complete with light-up figures, a Robin and "Virtual Joker " with "virus-tech lasers and byte mouth." It's not exactly the same as what was pitched, but it certainly shares it's similarities...

-BB

[Style]

basically, yeah...

when BB was originally coming to a close, kids wb asked us if we had any ideas on how to do a more "kid-friendly" batman show...alan burnett and hilary bader worked up a (i kid you not) "batman on mars" pitch, which was basically just a continuation of BB...terry moves to a colony on a terraformed mars and has kid-friendly adventures there...i was really relieved when kwb showed no interest in it, as i just HATED the concept....

so glen and i were mulling it over and took it as a challenge: was there a way to give kwb EXACTLY the kind of show they wanted, but still make it something that was freaky enough to be fun in its own right? we thought, "okay, rather than doing something that's just a 'baby-step' away from our previous shows, still tied to our direct continuity, etc, what if we do something that's REALLY whacked, that takes place SO far in the future, it's barely related to what we've done before"....("plausible deniability" played a factor here too)...

"pokemon" was still super-hot at kwb, so we tried to combine elements of it and other "collect 'em all" anime shows ("cardcaptors", "digimon", etc) with traditional batman elements....we brought adam warren in to help develop it with us (he ended up doing most of the art for the pitch, too)...it took place hundreds of years from now, and revolved around the adventures of an all-new batman, robin and batgirl, all in their early teens....there was some kind of nano-disaster that re-wrote reality, re-creating the old bat-villain archetypes as nano-based monsters....the kids had a butler a.i. named "alpha-red" (that one was just so tacky, we HAD to do it) who also powered all their vehicles...kenner had been urging us for years to put a talking vehicle a la "knight rider" in one of our shows (they originally wanted us to put a "jor-el" voice chip in clark kent's sportscar in STAS, so he could converse with clark, brando-style), so the talking "alpha-red/batmobile" was a no-brainer....do i have to go on?

anyhow, kenner LOVED the whole pitch, wanted to get started on the toy-line "yesterday!", but kwb thought it was still too "traditional", it wasn't "out of the box" enough..."batman's still too re-active...does he have to fight crime?" i pointed out that he would be fighting MONSTERS, not criminals.... "what if, instead of three kids who fight monsters, what if the three kids COMPETE about who gets to BE batman?" after a long moment of stunned silence i pointed out that if batman's not protecting the weak from the bad guys, be they monsters or criminals or aliens or what-have-you, then fundamentally, it just isn't "batman" AT ALL.....they allowed that there was probably some truth to that, asked us to give the whole thing some more thought, and invited us to come back and re-pitch it then.....the next day, i called mike lazzo at cn, pitched jl, he said "hell yeah!" and that was the end of BATMANIME...
Whoa... The plot thickens!
As weird as it sounds, Terry/Batman on Mars sounds interesting for a one shot possibility. Ofcourse, if you ever do get the opportunity for another Batman Beyond DTV (as VERY unlikely as it is,) Please don't waste it on the Mars concept...Unless that's Where Dick Grayson is hanging out these days.

The one think I glean of value from Batman Anime is Nanobot Batvillain monsters, so maybe that means a new Version of Joker with the abilities of Amazo!

I don't want you to spend more time answering questions here if it's detracting from your work on JLU or your family life or something, but since Batman anime was set hundreds of years in the future, was there going to be any attempt at all to relate it to the history, and say that Batman was Batman VII or something? (under the idea that Bruce was Batman I and Terry was Batman II.) Or were you just not going to worry about it?

[b.t.]

I'm beginning to see where they (Kenner/Hasbro) got the idea for the completely random "Batlink" toy line, complete with light-up figures, a Robin and "Virtual Joker " with "virus-tech lasers and byte mouth." It's not exactly the same as what was pitched, but it certainly shares it's similarities...

actually, i seem to remember the "virtual joker" being in the "BATMAN : ASYLUM" script that boyd kirkland and randy rogel wrote.....but i could be wrong...

[Fone Bone]

Kids WB sucks. At first I thought it sounded like a Justice League Kids show from Kids Stuff and I was excited about the idea of maybe seeing Baby Etrigan every week but those concepts are just horrible.

It goes without saying that the current The Batman cartoon is exactly the kind of crappy kiddified cartoon that WB obviously wanted from b.t. in the first place only the producers didn't have the balls to actually make a good cartoon out of it like Batman Beyond.:shrug:

[Toddman]

...It goes without saying that the current The Batman cartoon is exactly the kind of crappy kiddified cartoon that WB obviously wanted from b.t. in the first place only the producers didn't have the balls to actually make a good cartoon out of it like Batman Beyond...I dunno, I was actually thinking just the opposite.

It seems to me that KidsWB has really changed their tune since Timm and Co. made their BatAnime and JrJLA pitch. Despite the more kid-friendly feel of The Batman, the adventures of a 26 year old Batman w/no teen partners, fighting adult bad guys in a very urban and gritty Gotham City is all a very far cry from a teenaged Batman and the Wonder Twins fighting monsters hundreds of years in the future on Mars or whatever.



....the next day, i called mike lazzo at cn, pitched jl, he said "hell yeah!" and that was the end of BATMANIME...I've read about Lazzo accepting the idea for JL during a single telephone conversation, but who could have guessed what was going on just BEFORE that phone call :eek: ?

....the kids had a butler a.i. named "alpha-red" (that one was just so tacky, we HAD to do it)...Despite everything else, that may be the single biggest loss to Saturday morning in animated television history.

Toddman

[Fone Bone]

I dunno, I was actually thinking just the opposite.

It seems to me that KidsWB has really changed their tune since Timm and Co. made their BatAnime and JrJLA pitch. Despite the more kid-friendly feel of The Batman, the adventures of a 26 year old Batman w/no teen partners, fighting adult bad guys in a very urban and gritty Gotham City is all a very far cry from a teenaged Batman and the Wonder Twins fighting monsters hundereds of years in the future on Mars or whatever. In concept? Maybe. In execution? Em, no.


Despite everything else, that may be the single biggest loss to Saturday morning in animated television history.

ToddmanEven I can agree with this.:)

[b.t.]

And the Batman and friends in the distant future idea sounds even worse than Terry on Mars... Turning Batman into a complete Pokemon rip off would be unforgivable! When you say the Mars adventures would be "kid-friendly" what do you mean exactly? I can't imagine how that concept could be any kiddier than the 3 preteens fighting monsters pitch. :eek::(

it wasn't the "kiddie" aspect of BM ON MARS that bugged me....it was that it seemed to me to be just a random change of locale for no very good reason (leave alone the fact that i had serious qualms about mars being completely terraformed just 50 years from now)....it was both too much of a change in the BB paradigm, and also not ENOUGH of one, if that makes any sense...

i couldn't see any appeal in it...if the mars colony architecture were still in the "frontier" stage (think ALIENS' pre-fab shack town), it just sounded drab and depressing....what kind of crime would terry fight there? rousting drunken settlers on saturday night? and if the colony were much more civilised and advanced, what makes it all that different from BBEYOND's neo-gotham? seemed kinda pontless to me...

it felt to me like a general degradation of the BB concept with "desperation" scrawled over it...i would have preferred going the BATMANANIME route, if only because it would have been a whole new fresh start, with barely a tangential connection to the other series...yes, more than likely, it wouldn't have been a very good show...and it CERTAINLY wasn't aimed at our old audience, we knew they'd pretty much reject it out of hand...but remember, we were honestly trying to do a genuinely "kid-friendly" batman show, aimed squarely at the 6-11 year old demo, we were trying (for once) to create a show that didn't skew older....(unlike BBEYOND itself, which was SUPPOSED to be more "kid-friendly", but we knew from the get-go that it wasn't...)

[Silly McGooses]

This is all very interesting...but I think it all would've gotten stale quickly. The one abandoned project that I wish DID happen was Batman: Asylum.

[Dorko]

I think that the Batmanime concept sounds cool. With the team from "B:TAS" on it, it could of have been pretty good.

[efumf]

it wasn't the "kiddie" aspect of BM ON MARS that bugged me....it was that it seemed to me to be just a random change of locale for no very good reason (leave alone the fact that i had serious qualms about mars being completely terraformed just 50 years from now)....it was both too much of a change in the BB paradigm, and also not ENOUGH of one, if that makes any sense...
it felt to me like a general degradation of the BB concept with "desperation" scrawled over it... Actually, that does make a lot of sense - Jeopardising the integrity of BBeyond (the bloody best animated show of all time) would be just as unforgivable as turning Batman into an 11 year old monster-slayer. Now that you've explained it some more, the Mars concept kinda sounds like the doomed-from-the-start Gargoyles spin-off - Terry would have never been accepted as Bruce's successor by the fandom after that. A more logical step would have been a Batman Beyond JLU, with some teen heroes like Aquagirl to bring in the kids. And maybe they could fight monsters :sad:

To be honest, I really can't understand why WB keeps insisting on making Batman skew as young as possible. IMO, it completely wrecks the integrity of the character - why would any mature individual whos only exposure to the character is "The Batman" want to see Batman Begins or read a serious Batman comic book?

If they wanted a young wisecracking "Peter Parker as Batman" show, that's what Nightwing is for. Or do Year One, and do it properly.

But I guess that's the beauty of Batman; he can appeal to so many different people over so many decades. And there are more interpretations of the Dark Knight than there are members of the JLU.

But I still would have led the lynch mob if that Pokebatman show had gone ahead :evil:

Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. Thank you for JL. :crying:

[Doomsday]

That's one messed up story. The best part is the end where CN saves the day and lets the DCAU live with another great show, JL. Kids WB aren't the smartest people, should had just let you do your thing. :D

[efumf]

Pokebats does actually sound like a decent concept for a kids show, I admit (hey, kids nowadays are into some freaky weird stuff) - But there's really no reason to use (and crap on) the Batman franchise.

If anyone was to watch the show out of love for Batman, then they'd without a doubt hate it, so if you're not trying to bring in the Bat-fans with the license, why use it? Just create an all original show that doesn't crap on beloved characters. :p

And what happens when the young fans of Pokebats grow up and want the comic book/movie Batman to be like he was in the nostalgic cartoon of their childhoods? *shudders* Or even worse, want nothing to do with the character because they remember the cartoon of their youths and forever see Batman as a "kiddie" character? The franchise would die forever :( Bruce Timm would replace Adam West and Joey Shoe in the Bat-fans hall of shame :D

*realises this whole post was pointless because this show will never get made, but posts it anyway*

[b.t.]

two things to keep in mind:

1) this was a completely different regime at kids wb than the one that's currently in place that we're talking about here....i've had no direct contact at all with this new regime, so i have no opinion one way or the other about them...

2) to be fair, kids wb is in the business of making entertainment for CHILDREN, not teenagers, young adults or grown-ups....i can't fault them at all for trying to do their job...don't anyone take this the wrong way, but all you guys and gals who post here on the internet are NOT their intended audience....the fact that shows like JLU, TITANS and yes, THE BATMAN interest and appeal to you is purely "gravy"...from BTAS onward, i've always tried to make shows that appeal to a broad age-range of viewers, but have always tried to keep in mind that the 6-11 demo is all-important, bottom-line...and i gotta tell you, it's freaking HARD to find that balance between "kid-friendly" and "appeals to all ages"....again, i can't blame kids wb for interpreting that mission their own way...

[efumf]

b.t. - your shows are probably the last remaining form of entertainment that truly appeal to all ages (and by your shows, I obviously don't mean Teen Titans or The Batman) - You can sit down with your grandad, your dad and your son and everyone can enjoy the show just as much.

So when you talk about these shows and their intended "demographic", it's pretty clear you're just trying to please the advertisers. Your shows are for the whole family, pure and simple. It takes some amazing writing and direction to do it, but you're probably the last guy in television to pull it off so well.

It's truly an amazing feat and every producer in Hollywood should be envious. Demographics be damned.

[Dorko]

I would rather have had b.t.'s batmanime idea than "The Batman". there would have been at least a chance of character repect and development there.Mr. Timm, you mentioned art from that pitch. Any chance any of that could ever be "leaked" to the internet?

[FALLEN ELDOR]

I wonder how receptive they would have been to a show about Bat-Mite? It could be a total comedy satirizing the 60's show with a kid who has magic abilities and idolizes the fictional character Batman. :) Plus the Bat-Mite character easily lends him self to an anime redesign, that super deformed stuff on TT would totally work with Bat-Mite! That's why I actually liked the Larry the Titan episode!

[efumf]

^Now there's an idea. Pay tribute to Batman without crapping on him. :cool:

But satirizing a satire? :p

[FALLEN ELDOR]

But satirizing a satire? :p

Exactly! I was totally picturing the batman musical as seen in Batman Beyond!
"a superstitious cowardly lot, they plot and plan but always get caught" :anime:

[ced1106]

Yeah, I'm sure what "the suits" came up with was FAR better than the "fans first" JLU series.

Although, a Kids WB Bat-Mite... :D


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

[Kazuya]

Yeah, I'm sure what "the suits" came up with was FAR better than the "fans first" JLU series.

Although, a Kids WB Bat-Mite... :D


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^Dude that would be the bomb Bat-Mite the series hahah i can see it now.

[efumf]

The Krypto series is basically the same idea. Whoever came up with that is a genius :anime:

[Terminatah]

This is from a post I made here over three years ago, where a thread asked to invent hoax JL episodes. I called it the Jr. Justice League:

In this very special episode, we take a trip through the space-time continuum into the future, where each member of the Justice League is doing their best to raise the offspring that will one day take over as the new Leaguers.

14-year-olds Chris Kent and Tommy Wayne are your average schoolgoing teenagers by day, but after school and before bedtime, they are the scourge vigilante lawtykes known as Superboy and Batboy. Much to the dismay of Superman and Batman, they are both constantly trying to show each other up in their efforts to impress the sexy Aquagirl.

The Flash is father to 17-year-old Skip West, who isn't very fast, but fights crime with his lightning-quick wit. Burglars carrying large expensive merchandise often injure themselves once he really launches into his act. His weakness lies in that subtle dry humor that some criminals just find amusing, but not ha-ha funny.

John Stewart has been blessed with twin boys, 15-year-olds Dexter and Sinecio. The boys spend their days fighting over who gets to wear the ring, and John has his hands full trying to figure out which twin is the evil one.

Hawkgirl has two kids. Her first born, now 18-year-old Jenara Hol, is a boy-crazy prom queen who would rather go to the mall and talk on the phone than engage in combat with evildoers and communicate with birds. It was always evident to Hawkgirl that Jenara, who prefers to be called Jen, would never be willing or fit to take the Hawk mantle, so she decided a younger sibling might be more dedicated. She gave birth to Hawkboy, a.k.a. Thraxor Hol. Thraxor, who is now 6, is a super genius who detests barbaric physical displays. Opting to fight crime with science and good manners, little Thraxor is heavily considering abandoning the power scepter and going into law.

Wonder Woman is having a tough time coming to terms with her gay son, Wonder Lad, who has taken to wearing her uniform on missions.

And lastly, after trying hard for many years to reproduce asexually, J'onn J'onzz finally succeeded and gave birth to little J'onn J'onzz J'r. They both suffer from a severe lack of personality, and just like his pop, J'onn J'r spends most of his time in the Justice League Watchtower, where he is home schooled and feels distressed that he will not receive a valentine on Valentine's Day.

-TerminatahLooking back on it, there are only three problems with it. One, it contradicts JL continuity. Two, it contradicts BB continuity. Three, it contradicts general DC Comics continuity. But I bet if they had thrown in Mr. Mxyzptlk to explain that away, and possibly had Jack Black as the voice of Jr. Flash, they woulda had one hell of an episode.

Of course, the existence of "Kids' Stuff" negates the possibility of anything like this ever taking place. As innovative as the idea may be, there's no beating the baby demon Etrigan.

-Terminatah

[EJill34]

Reading some of the things in this thread really made me appreciate JL Season 1. Even though it was pretty bland at times its about a million times better than "Terry on Mars," "Batmanime" or "Why Does Batman Like Hanging Out Little Kids?" every would have been.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

terry on mars?? oh please all be thankful that didn't happen! :crying: as much as more BB would be nice that concept would have totally be the worst

[DarqueGuy]

So, bt, I have to ask...no matter how brief "Batman on Mars" was bandied around, did you ever think of bringing J'onn J'onz into the picture?

And I LOVE things like these, the TV shows that never were. I just found out that back in the 60s they made a pilot for a TV show called "Alexander the Great" starring Adam West AND William Shatner. I've GOT to find a bootleg of this someday.

[Toddman]

I just found out that back in the 60s they made a pilot for a TV show called "Alexander the Great" starring Adam West AND William Shatner. I've GOT to find a bootleg of this someday.
Oh my. I'll bet the wardrobe department threw a fit trying to find enough corsets to go around during that shoot...

T:pddman

[efumf]

So, bt, I have to ask...no matter how brief "Batman on Mars" was bandied around, did you ever think of bringing J'onn J'onz into the picture?
Doesn't sound like he had anything to do with that pitch.