Batman: Gotham Adventures #44 Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

BATMAN: GOTHAM ADVENTURES #44

http://comics.toonzone.net/bga/covers/t-44.jpg (http://comics.toonzone.net/bga/covers/44.jpg)

Written by Scott Peterson and Tim Levins; art by Levins and Terry Beatty; cover by Bob Smith and Beatty

In stores November 28. Two-Face is loose, Nightwing's down, and at the critical moment, Batman's gone! With one decision, the Dark Knight becomes a total stranger to his team in "Choices!"

Comments?

[Joker85]

I was SERIOUSLY dissappointed with this latest issue!! The return of Two-Face should have been an event, but it was not so. The artwork was OK, bu the story sucked!!! :mad: It was rushed and left sort of an empty feeling in me when I finished reading it. Two-face was barely in it and the panels he was in, he was practically a one dimensioned character. THis issue has proven that B:GA is probably on a completely downhill spiral and it has definitley lost one reader!

[James Harvey]

Well...the cover was nice...:)

Yeah - this issue was a severe let down. I was just really, really dissapointed with this issue. We haven't seen Two-Face since issue #12 or #11 and his return is...less than welcome.

[Trent Lane]

WHEN WILL THIS BOOK GET A NEW, BETTER WRITER?!?!?!? I'm getting tired of weak issues, get Peterson out!!!! Anbody else would do, just get him out so we can still have this book!!!!

[Bobby Boy 101]

AND they need a new penciller!!!!!!!!!!


god! :mad:

[Clayface]

Actually, I kind of liked this issue. Granted, it wasn't fantastic, but I don't think it was bad as you're making it out to be either. Seems like you all had big expectations for Two-Face's return - I didn't going into it, and it didn't really bother me that it wasn't a big deal in this issue. I thought it was kinda cool that Nightwing died, and I liked that Bat's just left Robin to handle it, knowing that Robin could handle it. I just didn't care for the ending - Batman doubting the decision he made seemed to go against the rest of the issue. Would have been better if he had been confident that he did the right thing.

[Trent Lane]

Honestly, I haven't read it yet, but the mostly negative feedback isn't making me run out the door to get it right away, either. I was just stating the obvious. It's not just this issue, it's been several out of the last half a year and more. I say start from scratch if they go beyond issue 50, a whole new creative team...

[Bird Boy]

I was going to buy it..but based on your reviews...maybe I won't..

was Robin in it at all? or was he just on the cover? Only reason I ask is, is he usually brings humor to the comics (which I don't see very often)...

-BB

[James Harvey]

That's weird. I never thought I'd 'expect too much' from Gotham Adventures. The animated Batman title would always deliver dead on for me...but now...I realize I may be expecting too much...asking too much of the title. Man, I never thought that would happen...

[Salvor]

My god what a poor issue... indeed Two-Face was barely in it and when was, he sounded like one of those lame villains from the Adam West show. "You've got two choices", "you've got twenty-two seconds"... ok, we got it, it's Two-Face, "two", haha great one Scott.

And Nightwing's neverending speech made me wanna kill someone! ;)
It was so long... and sounded so cheesy...

This issue makes it plain Peterson is one of the lousiest writers who've ever worked on the animated titles... if not he lousiest one!

[Trent Lane]

Not one of those issues I'm going to go out of my way to read again any time soon. Very sad, really. I saw the cover and had very high hopes for this one, but was again slightly let down. And have you noticed Robin's been giving CPR like every other issue now? What's that all about? Anywho, I guess we can expect much of the same from next month's issue. The cover looks awesome, so the story has to suck...

[Joker85]

Well, this was the issue that was supposed to bring me back into liking the animated titles, but it has driven me farther away. I will not buy this comic again unless I hear som excellent reviews from people here who I know have the same taste in comics as me.

[Batgirl]

I thought it was kinda bland but had several good points. I liked it that one of the team actually went down. That was pretty impressive. However, had we been left until the next issue to find out Dick's fate (which we know he'd live any way but...) that would have made it better. Had the Two Face storyline been a little stronger... ok, a lot stronger, then it could've been pulled off. Although, Dick's speech at the end wasn't cheesy. It was most definately better then anything from B&R. :shudder: In my humble opinion it opened the door for future conflicts between Bruce and Dick. I mean, yea Tim was perfectly capible of handling the sitaution, but Bruce bearly glanced down at his dead son. That had to hurt. And did any one else notice how some one who had just been revived took out about a dozen or so thugs? The more I read it, the more it seemed that Dick understood Bruce's decision and respected it- however, he was just slightly angry. If you look at the expressions as he's taking out the thugs he seems mad. I think he was hurt- even though he doesn't tell that to Robin- that Bruce didn't stay. And in a way Bruce feels guilty that he didn't stay. He knows that he did what he had to do but at the same time he didn't improve the relationship between himself and his first son. That's what the last scene was for. He knows what he did was both right and wrong. More people couldn't die, but he shouldn't have left his son. In a way, that shed a little light on his character in that he really does care for Dick and the rest of his family, he's just got a lousy way of showing it. I think the best scene was the shot were Batman was running and it showed Robin next to the fallen Nightwing, then went to Tim next to Dick. To me, that displayed that it effected Bruce a whole lot more then he was willing to show. I think it would have been interesting if Batman had gone after Two Face to 'avange' the death of his 'little protegee'Tell me, am I reading into this too much? I mean, that's just how I took it. But yea, why Two Face was running around suddenly just wanting to kill people is weird. I think it was supposed to focus more the heroes then on Two Face. Kinda like a greatly watered down version of OTE, except it's Dick and he actually dies... but turns out ok... Over all it was an ok story. Like I said, had it gone with a better Two Face plot and left us hanging with Dick it would have been better (and had it been a two parter, no pun intended). Who knows, maybe the events will ripple into other stories with Dick resenting that Bruce just left him and how Bruce tries to make up for his guilt.

[Samhaine]

I remember a time when the animated titles were better than the mainstream DCU titles.

This is no longer the case.

I had to stop myself from shredding the issue after I was finished reading it. I couldn't take Nightwing's speech, Robin's whining to Batman just made me want to reach into the comic and smack him, and Two-Face was played as just another villain. And don't get me started on the last page....

It's a really sad time when I'm only buying the animated titles out of habit, and to make the Batman/Superman animated collections complete. I miss the old Ty the Guy days.....

[DisneyBoy]

When you guys read my upcoming new thread on how far I went to get this issue, you will indeed pity me. But right now, I pity Gotham Adventures.

Issue number 44 felt like Peterson was trying to give fans what they wanted, while making sure he didn't entirely. He tried to re-integrate the strained Bruce/Dick relationship after having spent the last few months abollishing it.

Wow...that's the only good thing I can say about this one, story-wise!

On the negative side:

-ENOUGH WITH THE BABIES AND CHILDREN!!!
-ENOUGH WITH THE CAMPY VILLAIN [explentive deleted]!!!
-ENOUGH WITH THE STUPID SPEECHES!!!
-ENOUGH WITH THE [explentive deleted] MORALS!!!
-ENOUGH WITH THE ROBIN DOING C.P.R. BIT!!!

Man, am I ticked off! I love this series and he's driving it into the ground! This plot of this issue was so disappointing, it made Levin's art look good! Oh, that was cheap! Ok, I don't hate his art, and I actually enjoyed some of it. Though Two-Face looked rather uneven, and that colorist kept messing things up, I enjoyed page 11, with Batman remembering leaving his two boys behind as well as how Levins subtly managed to show us that Nightwing was upset with Batman for abandonning him. But the Peterson just killed the title of this issue:

"We have no choice!"
"It's time to choose!"
"He made the right choice!"

AAAAARGGGGG!!! Good GRIEF Charley Brown !!! Total frustration!

[Trent Lane]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
-ENOUGH WITH THE ROBIN DOING C.P.R. BIT!!!

Thank you!!!! I'm glad someone else is tired of seeing this.... I'd hate to actually see him taking up fighting crime...

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by flhero311


Thank you!!!! I'm glad someone else is tired of seeing this.... I'd hate to actually see him taking up fighting crime...

Maybe Peterson is trying to convince readers the importance of CPR...

I think issue #48 may be the last chance for me to enjoy the series. It's a flashback about Dick Grayson.

[Trent Lane]

Okay, I'm guessing you're being serious, and I'll agree, there is a need to know CPR. But does that have to be included in every other story? By the same character? If he paid that much attention to writing a good story, I'd black out in surprise. They've GOT to make some major changes, one of them being, oh I don't know, GET A NEW WRITER!!! Repeating the same thing over and over, I know, but maybe if it's said more action will be taken....

[Joker85]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson

I think issue #48 may be the last chance for me to enjoy the series. It's a flashback about Dick Grayson.

Well, this was my last chance. I realy had high hopes that they could tell a decent Two-Face story to bring GA out of it's rut, but this was worse than I could have possibly imagined!JL Adventures will be the only animated title I get anymore, unless it doesn't improve over issue # 1. It really is sad because Batman adventures was stunning and sooo much better than mainstream. But now one writer has taken that proud comic and really crapped it up!

[Samhaine]

Joker85 - I really suggest you at least pick up the last 2 issues of Superman Adventures. It's a 2-parter written by Evan Dorkin, who has written some pretty good issues (he co-wrote the two Supergirl issues and co-wrote a few eps of the series, including the Supergirl intro 2-parter). So, at least that series is going out with a bang.

Anyone remember reading these books when we had Millar on SA on Templeton on B&RA/GA? Those were the days.

[James Harvey]

Man, those were good days? I remember when McCloud/Burchett were on SA and they made the title the Superman title to read. Bar none. It's amazing how things change, eh? I'm really hoping for a couple more fill-in issues in B:GA's future. Another Brubaker story would be cool. Or Rucka? THAT would be nice!!

[DisneyBoy]

Listen guys,

I'm not trying to tell you how to or how not to spend your money, but giving up on Gotham Adventures will only ensure the cancellation of this title. I realize I've done little besides bash this series, as well as it's current artist and writer, but the one thing I won't do is give up on it.

When an old friend is going through a rough time, we wouldn't dream of just giving up on him/her. Or a senior relative for that matter. Now, I know this is just a comic, and not nearly as important as a human life, or any life for that matter, but you know what, The Batman Adventures matters to me! It has been the only title I've followed, and after it's gone, I don't think I'll be following anything else. The people making this series need to know that changes should be made, rather than an execution. The best way to keep this series alive is for us, the true and loyal fans, to keep buying it, all the while trying to let them know how to improve it. Think of the casual comic buyers out there: If they won't support this series, we should! We can't just wave a white flag and disrespect all of the wonderful talented people who've given us the many outstanding incarnations of this series by just turning our back on it in it's time of greatest need. They worked hard to make this title worth our money, and one of the best pieces of work out there. We owe them no less than to help make this book what it once was and what it still can be.

So please, folks, I know how hard it is to keep ourselves from saying "Goodbye, you suck" to what this book has become, but if there's even a chance that the bigwings come here and read these boards, then we need to keep our messages supportive, or they'll end Batman: Gotham Adventures. I've been struggling with keeping my disappointment under control, but I know we can do this. Batman Beyond is gone. Superman Adventures is gone. It's all up to us now. And we Love this series!

[Joker85]

Well, I would say end it now and let it go out with dignity, but we are long past that.

[James Harvey]

It's all up to the person really. If they feel they are wasting their money on Gotham Adventures, then they can drop it if they want. I'm gonna stay on the title for a little while longer, but this is the first real time I've considered dropping the title since it's inception. I'm really hoping things level out here.

[Trent Lane]

Disneyboy's right, tho. I know I'm severely guilty of slamming the books sometimes. Peterson's really only had a few good stories in the past handful of issues, for example #38 was good, #42 was good, and #43 was fair. Notice issues #38 and 42 don't deal with Batman's main villains. Makes you wonder.... course, the worse issue by far of the run (issue #41) didn't deal with a main villain, so I guess that theory goes right out the window. #39 was not satisfying, I've never known a villain just giving up, especially Clayface. #40 was just bad, Mr. Freeze in love?! #44 tops it all off with a mediorce, at best, story. The art has gotten a lot better. Some panels of Two Face reminded me of Burchett's (?) Two Face art in issue #2. I don't know, I'll keep buying the book, I'm more of a visual person anyway, it'd just be nice if there was a good story to go along with the art, you know? Okay, sorry for the rant, continue on with your lives...

[James Harvey]

Yeah - I'm guilty of slamming it, too. My last few reviews haven't really been all that nice towards it, but that is just how I feel about it. I plan to stay on until (at least) issue #50. If I stil think it's worthy of being pulled, then I'll continue to do so!

[Batgirl]

Hey DG, what was that you were saying about 48 being about Dick? Got any little spoilers/ clues you wanna tell? I'd love to hear them... That is, if you can do that thing... I know spoilers are a little touchy with this group...

[DisneyBoy]

...just a little! :D

[James Harvey]

Well, here's what I can say:

It is a flashback tale harkening back to Dick's first days at Wayne Manor. I believe Burchett will do the flashback, another artist will handle another part of the story, and Levins doing the current TAS timer.

That should do it. :)

[Figaro]

Am I the only one who thinks that Peterson and Levins are a great unsung team? I personally enjoy their work on this title quite a bit (granted, some issues are way better than others). I thought issue #44 was great, and issue #41 moved me so much that I used it in my talk when I spoke at a local prison ministry some of my church members do.

But, to each their own, I suppose.

By thy side,

Figaro

[DisneyBoy]

I think we all support the morals and values shown in the book, as well as the clean artwork and lack of gratuitous violence. However, there are other elements to a good Batman title, than still incorporate these ideas, but tell actual stories. Sure, issue 44 raised a lot of interesting points. Batman trusted Nightwing, but Nightwing still feels rejected by his former master. But come on...Two-Face showing up in ally's trying to electrocute babies, hang people over dogs, tie people up on giant scales and group a bunch of crooks together to beat up Batman??? It's just waaaay to campy and uncharacteristic. Peterson may know how to write a children's moral book, but he is clueless about how to handle Batman the way he was in the animated series. Levins is making the style he draws too much his own and too little of the animated look for us to call him an unsung hero. If we hope to see this book on the shelves in a year or two, either they need some serious Animated Batman Boot-Camp, or they need to take the walk of shame. "You are the Weakest Link...Goodbye!"

[virtual_alfred]

I thought issue 44 was great.

Batman made some tough decisions. The art on page 11 makes it plain that he didn't like having to leave Nightwing behind. Batman responds to this the way we expect him to -- he redoubles his efforts. All nicely summarized on one page, no dialog. I think this is some pretty good story telling.

Of course, this causes some understandable friction in the bat-family.

To tell this story, the villain was de-emphasized.

Now why is it interesting and okay for DC have to have a Shadow of the Bat title focused exclusively on Batman's mental state? And okay for Batman Gotham Knights looks at his relationship with the bat-family? When BGA takes an issue or two look at stuff like this and do something besides have a villain take center-stage people threaten to cancel their subscriptions.

Why is Two-face's pyschosis so more interesting than Batman's?

It doubly kills me to see people tear down this comic while heaping praise on the Justice League eye-candy. Justice League isn't creating new plots and yet they manage to pick the most predictable and flat stories out of DC's 50+ year history.

[DisneyBoy]

True, Justice League isn't exactly starting from scratch with never before seen characters and plot twists, but everyone is enjoying it so much because they've never seen it animated before. That, and the creators are trying to make this the best JL incarnation ever.

As for issue 44, the whole Two-Face thing was rediculous! I am all for a story that shows Batman's psychosis, but does it have to reduce the villain to such an impossibly campy wierdo? T-F wasn't even acting like himself. Come on, I understand Batman is about fantasy, but all the stunts T-F were pulling looked more like a scene from a David Copperfield special than a something Harvey's fractured mind would think up. The last time he appeared in Gotham Adventures, he attempted suicide! Shouldn't that at least be addressed, no matter who is writing the book??? I think Peterson is afraid to pick up where Ty left off because he doubts he can follow. It's one thing to change the direction of the book and it's another entirely to reduce the characters to one-dimensional fools month after month.

I'm not saying I hate everything he's done...rather, that I wish he'd stop doing what doesn't work. I guess we just don't agree...

[Joker85]

ummm, I didn't really notice that it showed Batman's psychosis in # 44. He and Two-Face were 1-dimensional characters in this one. And talk about wearing the title to death!

[DisneyBoy]

...no joke!

[Blight]

Well, I just picked up this issue, and I am totally disgusted! What kind of crap is this?! After issue #43's good story, I thought things might start to get better, but noooooooooooo! Peterson just had to come up with another childish story! Ugh. Everything about this issue was just so lame (except for the art). Granted, this issue was nowhere near as bad as issue #41, (which was a fine example of Peterson's lack of knoledge of not just the Bat world, but of how to write!) but it still made me want to weep in frusturation! Leave it to Peterson to find a way to mess up what could have been another amazing Two-Face story! I really hope DC rescues this title from falling into the grasp of hell, because that's where it's going if Peterson isn't fired, and I, like many others, do not want to see this comic flushed down the toilet!

See ya!
Blight

[James Harvey]

What I don't understand is that Peterson edited the book during the BATMAN ADVENTURES - BATMAN & ROBIN ADVENTURES days. It blows my mind how he couldn't pick up ANYTHING from that. Those were the high days for BATMAN ADVENTURES and he was largely responsible for it. Now he's scrapping the bottom of the barrel for some truly bad stories.Templeton did some great things with the Two - Face character, and Peterson just ruined anything that was developed. I was thoroughly dissapointed. Expect quite the negative review on my site next week.