WHY do 4kids replace the music?

[Cheesecake]

a simple question, after hearing yu gi oh subtitled with its excellent and atmospheric music why do they replaceit all with inferior music?....WHY?

[InfinityBlade]

Apparently it's cheaper to create in-house music than pay for the original soundtrack.

[Yash]

Cultural benefits.

Don't know what the hell that means, most likely just a half-assed reason.

It was also said (by Lance I believe) at a con that 4Kids couldn't release Uncut YGO (they'd started releasing Battle City on DVD at that time with edited only releases) because "music was too expensive". Coming from the distributors of Pokemon, haha, good one. Later disproved (uncut releases).

BTW, the original music DOES cost less than making a new soundtrack. 4Kids has been able to use the original music for the last four Pokemon movies, all of which came out at a bearable pace.

[Lord Dalek]

It's all about money. They don't want to spend it.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

But it costs more to produce their own music doesn't it? Maybe not more than paying for the artist sung OPs and EDs though.

I don't really mind some shows not keeping their music. But 4kids' music ruins the mood and they should be hung for removing the music from One Piece and Shaman King (especially One Piece).

But I believe the main reason was so they wouldn't have to time the original music to the edited animation.

That and they want to sell their own soundtracks.

[Yash]

But it costs more to produce their own music doesn't it? Maybe not more than paying for the artist sung OPs and EDs though.

I don't really mind some shows not keeping their music. But 4kids' music ruins the mood and they should be hung for removing the music from One Piece and Shaman King (especially One Piece).

But I believe the main reason was so they wouldn't have to time the original music to the edited animation.

That and they want to sell their own soundtracks.
The only shows that get soundtracks are YGO and Pokemon.

Not that their other shows actually have different soundtracks or anything (Shaman King, Sonic X, and One Piece share some tracks).

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Given that they've produced uncut dubs with the original soundtrack, that means they have bought the rights to them, which means making their own music is more expensive.:shrug:

[Yash]

Given that they've produced uncut dubs with the original soundtrack, that means they have bought the rights to them, which means making their own music is more expensive.:shrug: I second Dogasu's suggestion in a recent Pokemon comparison - we should give them a Gamecube or something.

[Keiichi]

Are'nt the more recent pokemon movie's done by Miramax films? That may be the reason they have the orginal soundtracks.

[G1Ravage]

=But I believe the main reason was so they wouldn't have to time the original music to the edited animation.

That and they want to sell their own soundtracks.
Precisely!

[Yash]

Are'nt the more recent pokemon movie's done by Miramax films? That may be the reason they have the orginal soundtracks.
Miramax distributes, 4Kids dubs.

[JohnCrichton]

I've said it before.... with some, like DBZ I can see why, although I don't approve of it.

But for a show like One Piece whose soundtrack is universal and phenomenal.. there's hardly a need for it. Infact, there is no need for it.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Precisely!
They could sync up the music and the images if they really wanted to. FUNi does it with YYH all the time. But they simply choose not to. Which wouldn't all that bad if the music was good and WASN'T constant. I can't stand constant dramatic music it's way too cheesy.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I've said it before.... with some, like DBZ I can see why, although I don't approve of it.

But for a show like One Piece whose soundtrack is universal and phenomenal.. there's hardly a need for it. Infact, there is no need for it.Oh yeah... I don't care what the bulk of otaku's say. Dragonball Z's music doesn't fit the show at all. FUNi's isn't as well made but it suits the show better when it's looked at as an action show.

But One Piece's music is downright epic. And gives it a cinematic feel. And none of it would bother American listeners. Infact the crappy circus music is what bothers most American viewers.

[Lord Dalek]

Now that I think of it, the other reason for soundtrack changes is for smooth transitions between edits.

[Yash]

Now that I think of it, the other reason for soundtrack changes is for smooth transitions between edits.
That may have worked for One Piece, but I can't think of any other 4Kids show with the abundance of timecuts it has.

Oh, and random fact: Under a 22-minute time constraint with a minute-long OP (15 second Gold Roger, 45 second We Are would do nicely, their rap OP without Gold Roger is only a minute long too), One Piece could run with only about 20 seconds being cut off.

U_U

[Chris Wood]

Anime shows have often had their soundtracks replaced over the years, although the practice is less common these days. The most notorious example is probably G-Force, the second attempt to adapt Gatchaman for the US. That show had one of the cheapest, crappiest soundtracks imaginable, consisting of the same 2 or 3 notes pounded out in relentless repetition on a $30 keyboard.

Sometimes however it makes sense to replace the soundtrack. Crappy music exists in Japan as well, and some of the original music is better left forgotten.

[Go-chin]

Anime shows have often had their soundtracks replaced over the years, although the practice is less common these days. The most notorious example is probably G-Force, the second attempt to adapt Gatchaman for the US. That show had one of the cheapest, crappiest soundtracks imaginable, consisting of the same 2 or 3 notes pounded out in relentless repetition on a $30 keyboard. But that makes the show even more cheesier and awesome.


Sometimes however it makes sense to replace the soundtrack. Crappy music exists in Japan as well, and some of the original music is better left forgotten. Most of the shows they bring over have pretty damn good OSTs.

[Chad Bonin]

I'm sure price is a factor, along with preference.

Gotta agree with Hyper Lou, Dragonball Z's dub soundtrack just worked better.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Price would only be a factor if they didn't own the rights to the original soundtracks, but they do, as evidenced by Uncut DVD's.

DBZ's original score was nothing great, and neither was the dubs.

But One Piece's original score is perfection amongst men.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

That and they want to sell their own soundtracks.

but but theres more of a market for anime osts then 4kids osts just see bandai/adv/geneon cd releases :confused:

[Dark Fact]

the music is replaced for the following reasons:


if original music is used and a scene is edited, the music would "jerk" or "skip". Replacing the music helps conceal the edit .
Money. It costs quite a good amount of cash to purchase episodes but also costs a good amount of cash to get the music and effects for those episodes.
the original tracks have certain periods of silence to them. American TV broadcast lore dictates that children aren't patient enough for silent periods so music must be added to give a sense of mood and maintain interest.

[Pepperidge]

I believe royalties also have something to do with it.

[Chris Wood]

There's also the question of stylistic differences. Anime tends to use a wide variety of music, but in the U.S. I think there is a more narrow definition of what music is appropriate for cartoons.

When Star Blazers and Lupin the 3rd were brought over the shows' scores were kept, but the slow and downbeat songs from the closing credits were removed. If Cowboy Bebop had aired on a network I'm sure the closing song would have been replaced by snappy theme music.

[Conan-san]

Ok then, if that is the instnace, point out seveal things for me

1) Dragonball and Dragonball GT's Blue Watter Dubs had 100% orgional audio
2) Zoids ether has some brilliant dub audio or they also had orgional audio
3) selling soundtracks, how many, besides Yugioh have had OST for thier shows (Not stuppid littl' immage songs that bare no resemblence to the character in question but full fledged soundtracks So "To be a master" and "Totaly" for the Pokemon range does not count)

If these can't be answered simply then 4-kids are retarded...

but hey, we didn't need to go through that just to know that, didn't we?

[Gokou Ruri]

Indeed, the music would cost a lot to edit for every single episode based on the edits. They couldn't use the same tracks because each scene can be a different length due to edits or lack of. It's just cheaper to



That may have worked for One Piece, but I can't think of any other 4Kids show with the abundance of timecuts it has.

According to a very popular OP site edit list, the dub hardly has any time edits at all. The only problems is digital paint for guns and whatnot, so I doubt that's the case.

Plus they take out like 5 minutes of YGO every episode and splice episodes together and sometimes turn them into 'music videos' :D

[Meson]

I believe royalties also have something to do with it.Royalties are the #1 reason.

With the Japanese music, only the Japanese companies can get claim royalties for the music. The licenses that the US distributors have are meaningless. When I play anime music from Japan on Toon Radio, I ony deal with the Japanese.

If the US companies make their own music, they own that music completely, and can get royalties for it without having to give some to Japan.

[Hordesman]

If the US companies make their own music, they own that music completely, and can get royalties for it without having to give some to Japan.
And getting any from me. :p

[Jave]

If the US companies make their own music, they own that music completely, and can get royalties for it without having to give some to Japan.As insulting and unfair that sounds, it's sadly true.

[Yash]

According to a very popular OP site edit list, the dub hardly has any time edits at all. The only problems is digital paint for guns and whatnot, so I doubt that's the case. Yeah, I know, I run it :shrug:

Episodes have usually about a minute or two cut (the first one had 2 minutes and 26 seconds snipped), I don't list them if they're 2-second ones like "Luffy talks longer", "Larger shot of the ocean" (I used to though).


Plus they take out like 5 minutes of YGO every episode and splice episodes together and sometimes turn them into 'music videos' :D That only happened to four episodes, the rest of the show they have no excuse for.

Besides, those episodes were run without music video splicing internationally, so it was probably a WB-ordered edit.

IIRC, the original music is packaged with the license.

My opinion on DBZ (since it's been brought up) - the original music was a bit too peppy for the show, but it's definitely better than Faulconer's music, it doesn't really seem like he put much into it.

Now Shuki Levy, that guy knew how to work some magic.

[JetMaster5]

The whole DBZ music thing can't really be judged fairly, since it depends on which kind of music viewers were exposed to at first. I mean, if a person watches Japanese DBZ episodes, then when they watch Funi's DBZ, they're going to be disgusted with Faulconer since it's so different. Vice versa. So, it's really a first impression deal.

[Master Moron]

Sometimes however it makes sense to replace the soundtrack. Crappy music exists in Japan as well, and some of the original music is better left forgotten.

Yes, but who are they to judge what music is crappy? Personally, I find the music in Trigun and Witch Hunter Robin to be especially crappy, but some people like them. Why should one person's enjoyment of the original soundtrack be taken away for someone else's pleasure? I say just keep all the original soundtracks that way there won't be any stupid debates about which soundtrack is better.

[Gokou Ruri]

That only happened to four episodes, the rest of the show they have no excuse for.

Besides, those episodes were run without music video splicing internationally, so it was probably a WB-ordered edit.

IIRC, the original music is packaged with the license.
Oh :sad: I kind of liked those videos because of how hilarious they were.

[Chris Wood]

Yes, but who are they to judge what music is crappy?

They're the people investing their money, so it's their decision to make.


Now Shuki Levy, that guy knew how to work some magic.

Hell yeah!!! That guy rules! Wonder what happened to him?

[Ben]

Sometimes however it makes sense to replace the soundtrack. Crappy music exists in Japan as well, and some of the original music is better left forgotten.

coughcoughmsgundamcough

[Chris Wood]

coughcoughmsgundamcough

Was the MSGundam soundtrack really bad? I can't remember it offhand. I know the original Gatchaman score is this awful disco thing, wisely replaced by an excellent score in BOTP.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Perhaps they only want to pay for the home video royalties to use the original OST and not the television royalties. If royalties is the reason (which is very likely the case). But they also do it for other reasons like syncing up the audio and video and just because they most likely don't want the show to sound at all Japanese still or to have any silent spots in the background music.

[Yash]

The whole DBZ music thing can't really be judged fairly, since it depends on which kind of music viewers were exposed to at first. I mean, if a person watches Japanese DBZ episodes, then when they watch Funi's DBZ, they're going to be disgusted with Faulconer since it's so different. Vice versa. So, it's really a first impression deal. I heard Faulconer first, way back in 2000 when the Frieza Saga was fresh.

I remember when Buu was new I was watching an ep, distracted somewhat by the music, and thinking "...does this stuff ever end?"

[InfinityBlade]

Was the MSGundam soundtrack really bad? I can't remember it offhand. I know the original Gatchaman score is this awful disco thing, wisely replaced by an excellent score in BOTP.
"Tobe, Gundam!", the theme song is... special. But kinda charming in a campy sort of way.

I LIKE the background music. It's very 70s, but dammit, I LIKE IT. :|

[Master Moron]

They're the people investing their money, so it's their decision to make.


Well, yeah, but we as fans have a right to ***** about the decisions they make. I'm just saying that to me, it doesn't matter whether the music is good or not, I want the orginal music. If I wanted to watch a series with a 4 Kids score, I'd watch Ninja Turtles, if I want to watch an anime, I want to hear the original music. As much as I can't stand the music in Witch Hunter Robin, I'm glad that the music was kept in there, just so I am able to form an opinion on the show.

I mean, imagine if the music was changed? Then I'd have to wonder if the show really sucks or if it's just because they changed the music. I mean, watching Yu-Gi-Oh! I'm left wondering if the show is really supposed to be that bad, or if 4Kid's screwed it up. At least if the dub wasn't changed very much from the original than one can make a judgement on it's quality.

Oh, and as far as the Dragonball Z score goes, if I wanted synthesized music in a fighting show, I'd watch Yu Yu Hakusho, if I want to watch Dragonball Z, I want the original music. I can't stand watching dubbed Dragonball Z just because during every scene I'm wondering how the scene is supposed to be played out. If they play silly music in the dub I'm left wondering if there was silly music in the original. It's just a big distraction to me and I can't stand it.

[Chris Wood]

[Master Moron]Well, yeah, but we as fans have a right to ***** about the decisions they make. I'm just saying that to me, it doesn't matter whether the music is good or not, I want the orginal music. If I wanted to watch a series with a 4 Kids score, I'd watch Ninja Turtles, if I want to watch an anime, I want to hear the original music.

I'm sure that if the majority of the viewing public shares your views then 4Kids will do as you desire.


I mean, watching Yu-Gi-Oh! I'm left wondering if the show is really supposed to be that bad, or if 4Kid's screwed it up.

Rest assured, YuGiOh really IS that bad.

[Gokou Ruri]

Does TMNT really share music with 4-Kids other dubs? :shrug: I never really noticed

[Fresh V]

I really hate that big evil sounding booming thing they always show before the breaks of Shaman King and Sonic X.

[Cheesecake]

I'm sure that if the majority of the viewing public shares your views then 4Kids will do as you desire.



Rest assured, YuGiOh really IS that bad.
I wouldnt say that, i mean after watching an epsidoe of yu gi oh subbed from the duelist kingdom saga i was fdning it diffuclt to beleive it was the same series, the music REALLY helped because in the jap version after yu gi and the gang escaped a collpasing buliding in ahelicopter there was a really atmospheric piano solo being played and it was like soemthing out a big budget movie, when 4kids dub the episode it will have this bland generic "action" music blasting away in the background non-stop. The music in the 4kid sversion has no depth or variety whatsoever which really detratcs from the drama of the show.

[Cheesecake]

The Japnese version started to lose it after the Pegasus arc i felt..the 4kids version got it wrong from the start. Use the heart of the card indeed!

I wouldnt say that, i mean after watching an epsidoe of yu gi oh subbed from the duelist kingdom saga i was fdning it diffuclt to beleive it was the same series, the music REALLY helped because in the jap version after yu gi and the gang escaped a collpasing buliding in ahelicopter there was a really atmospheric piano solo being played and it was like soemthing out a big budget movie, when 4kids dub the episode it will have this bland generic "action" music blasting away in the background non-stop. The music in the 4kid sversion has no depth or variety whatsoever which really detratcs from the drama of the show.

Generally my biggest gripe wit the 4kids version is its CONSTANT!

[Dark Fact]

Believe in the heart of the cards. Children, don't believe in God to guide you through your duels, believe in plastic.

The messages that dubbed anime sends to kids these days....jeez!

[Gokou Ruri]

I think the best thing about original YGO is the music. A lot of it is just simply... amazing and breathtaking.

[Yash]

I think the best thing about original YGO is the music. A lot of it is just simply... amazing and breathtaking.

My favorite theme is that one that plays whenever Yugi or someone wins a match (it was also played when Pegasus stole Sugoroku's soul).

And that one little Kaiba theme they have.

[Gokou Ruri]

I like Psychological Warfare myself.

[Fresh V]

The Japnese version started to lose it after the Pegasus arc i felt..the 4kids version got it wrong from the start. Use the heart of the card indeed!

I wouldnt say that, i mean after watching an epsidoe of yu gi oh subbed from the duelist kingdom saga i was fdning it diffuclt to beleive it was the same series, the music REALLY helped because in the jap version after yu gi and the gang escaped a collpasing buliding in ahelicopter there was a really atmospheric piano solo being played and it was like soemthing out a big budget movie, when 4kids dub the episode it will have this bland generic "action" music blasting away in the background non-stop. The music in the 4kid sversion has no depth or variety whatsoever which really detratcs from the drama of the show.

Generally my biggest gripe wit the 4kids version is its CONSTANT!
Yeah, 4Kids always put in these untolerable ongoing annoying music. That one I mentioned earlier..... it's like a bunch of stuff just uselessly tossed together.

[JDNobodi]

Royalties are the #1 reason.

With the Japanese music, only the Japanese companies can get claim royalties for the music. The licenses that the US distributors have are meaningless. When I play anime music from Japan on Toon Radio, I ony deal with the Japanese.

If the US companies make their own music, they own that music completely, and can get royalties for it without having to give some to Japan.
If they wanted to sell their music, wouldn't they invest into better music that people would buy instead of that cRAP?

[Tash]

My favorite theme is that one that plays whenever Yugi or someone wins a match (it was also played when Pegasus stole Sugoroku's soul).

And that one little Kaiba theme they have.And that one spooky piano song that plays all the time...

Anyhow, I was watching Marik vs. Mai subbed while babysitting. One of the kids comes over to look at it. I said, "I thought you didn't like Yu-gi-oh". Then he said something about liking the "cool egyptian music" that was playing in the background.

Go figure.

[Meson]

If they wanted to sell their music, wouldn't they invest into better music that people would buy instead of that cRAP?

Kids don't care how the music sounds to us. THey just care how it sounds to them.