Why I feel the Simpsons have jumped the shark [Archive]

John Pannozzi

01-14-2005, 09:42 PM

A)In the first season, Flanders was just a guy who had things better than Homer. He soon became a God-fearing goody-2-two-shoes. Now he's an anti-Semetic, homophobic, anti-Hindu, anti-Buddisim, anti-every-culture-except-Christian Bible thumper.

B)In the commentray for (I think) "Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th commendanment", they said they tried to make a realisitic, sympathetic, caring person. Now he's one of those conversative Christians who burns books and think Harry Potter is evil.

C) In "All's Fair in Oven War", Apu says that in India his dream was to move to America and get married and have kids. Now that he's achived that dream his new dream is to abandon his family and go back to India. He actually moves back to India in this episode. Thos offends me especially since I recently realized what I want most in life a wife who loves me, is there for me if I feel scared of depressed, etc. Why Apu would want to his beautiful wife is beyond me.
D) At the end of Simpsons comics #100, OFF is falling off a cliff. I was told (I don't exactly remember how) that SC#101 would continue from that. It didn't, and I'll never know what happened to them after #100. Even Bongo Comics has betrayed me.

Please try to hear my concerns over what once was the greatest show ever.

livingfruitvirus

01-14-2005, 10:32 PM

I think you take The Simpsons a little too seriously. I'm surprised there's someone out there who follows the comics.

Jave

01-14-2005, 10:48 PM

Do the comics have any sort of continuity in any way?

Stewie

01-14-2005, 11:26 PM

I think you're projecting your religious/cultural views onto an animated sitcom.

If something bothers you, chalk it up to being just a joke.

Harley Quinn

01-14-2005, 11:36 PM

I kind of agree that it's jumped the shark, but not for any of the reasons above. I just...don't find it all that funny anymore. And it's really sad to acknowledge that. It just seems like The Simpsons' best days are behind them, and Homer's stupidity has FINALLY gotten tired and played-out. I didn't even realize it until Family Guy came along. Family Guy actually had me laughing out loud like I used to do while watching The Simpsons. At this point, I wouldn't be sad if The Simpsons was cancelled. In fact I WISH they could start pumping out new episodes of Futurama instead.

Wesyeed

01-15-2005, 12:24 AM

What would the world be like without the Simpsons?

This... is a tragedy. :sad:

Classic Speedy

01-15-2005, 12:31 AM

Do the comics have any sort of continuity in any way? It's best to think of the comics as a Treehouse of Horror episode. Or better yet, a Season 11 episode- done purely for laughs and nothing more. I had a comic a few years ago with Homer being shrunken to miniature size inside of Burns (by accident, IIRC) ........Hey! They're stealing ideas for new episodes from old comics! (Hello, Treehouse of Horror 15?)

With that in mind, they should do an episode focused on Bart sneaking off to the circus when he's supposed to be grounded and the family gets into all kinds of WACKY HIJINKS trying to save him!

Anyway John, you're basically stating what has been general concensus for a while now- that the characters have been stripped of any subtle qualities and are now walking parodies of their former selves, existing purely of exaggerated traits.

Tom Mewer

01-15-2005, 01:32 AM

Homer: Doesn't this car have airbags?!

Ned: No! The church opposes them for some reason!

DerekPowers

01-15-2005, 01:54 AM

Duh. the Simpsons jumped the shark long ago, about the 99-2000 season. Its almost unwatchable at this point, imo.

Why everyone praises it and still finds it funny is completely beyond me. I think people just dont want to admitt it because it was such a great show. It really is a tragedy because it went from being absolutely brilliant to being complete crap. They really need to just end it already because its just not funny anymore. When i do happen to watch a new episode (VERY rarely), i just wind up feeling embarassed for the show.

Another thing i hate is when the simpsons writers and cast and stuff are on interview shows like "inside the actors studio" or that pbs show the writers were on, and everyone is kissing their asses, and its like, hello!!! will someone please point out that the emperor isnt wearing any clothes anymore? can we stop the chrade?

It'll be interesting to see how the DVDs deal w/ the commentaries once we get into the crappy seasons. god, that should be pretty sad, them trying to praise such bad episodes.

peace.

SirLemming

01-15-2005, 01:54 AM

That's probably the oddest evidence I've ever seen, but, yeah, the show jumped the shark. Been around here lately?

I suspect it just might... umm... jump again... but backwards... ...make a recovery, in other words.

Superperson

01-15-2005, 02:17 AM

Not that I can say those are particularly greatest reasons putting against the show, but uh, it jumped the shark quite a while ago...

Peter Paltridge

01-15-2005, 02:59 AM

simpspin

01-15-2005, 04:28 AM

Duh. the Simpsons jumped the shark long ago, about the 99-2000 season. Its almost unwatchable at this point, imo.

Seasons 10-12 were like rotten, poisoned pizza. Seasons 13-present are like a rotten pizza, minus the poison--not deadly, but not even close appealing.

Anyway, I still stand by my belief the show became far less enjoyable when the writers decided to write as many jokes possible for (insert character here) and decided plot, characterizations and charm were expendable. When writers like David Mirkin, even jokingly, say that "By the time the show ends, every character will have come out of the closet," it's just proves how much the writers take the characters for granted.

Draven

01-15-2005, 05:52 AM

You know, I am getting pretty sick of hearing about how much this community hates The Simpsons. You are probably just following "popular opinion" and instantly agreeing, The Simpsons have jumped the shark. You probably go into an episode wondering "I wonder how much it will suck this week?" and you watch, and wait for something you don't like so you can write off the whole season.

Instead, try watching, with a freash attitude. ENJOY the show you watch week after week. Now, let's look at your complaints...

A)In the first season, Flanders was just a guy who had things better than Homer. He soon became a God-fearing goody-2-two-shoes. Now he's an anti-Semetic, homophobic, anti-Hindu, anti-Buddisim, anti-every-culture-except-Christian Bible thumper.

B)In the commentray for (I think) "Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th commendanment", they said they tried to make a realisitic, sympathetic, caring person. Now he's one of those conversative Christians who burns books and think Harry Potter is evil. Ned was ALWAYS meant to be a scapegoat and a disliked character. Even in season one. He had a better house, a better car, and all those neat tools Homer borrowed and "forgot" to return. But even THEN way back, all those years ago. He was ANNOYING.

"Hi didly-ho neigborino!"
"SHUT YOUR FACE FLANDERS!"
"Oakile-dokalie!"

What a jerk. And now, he's grown into a bible thumper, who shuns all religions, practices, and sugar? He does things completly silly and childish to the rest of us. Yeah, The only people he DOESN'T offend are, well, people like himself, who wonder why he is so hated. His kids are complete pansies, his wife was a loser, and Ned is so incapible of deciding things for himself he managed to make his Pastor, Rev. Lovejoy, simply not care about his work, his church, or what "crisis" Ned is facing. Don't get so hung up on Ned. Ned seems to handle what comes his way pretty decently, so relax, and enjoy it. And sometimes Ned's behavior is simply so ludacris, it makes me laugh.

Did, you notice, that God likes Homer better?

C) In "All's Fair in Oven War", Apu says that in India his dream was to move to America and get married and have kids. Now that he's achived that dream his new dream is to abandon his family and go back to India. He actually moves back to India in this episode. Thos offends me especially since I recently realized what I want most in life a wife who loves me, is there for me if I feel scared of depressed, etc. Why Apu would want to his beautiful wife is beyond me. Try doing daily double shifts, at a Quickie-Mart where you are robbed, shot at and short changed, THEN come home and have to deal with a wife, and EIGHT kids. Over the years, we see Apu go from Happy, and eager to please his customers, to being jaded, and exhausted. Hell, in one episode, he had FIVE minutes to go to a party, and then it was back to work. He hung in there, for a long time, and finnally, he got fed up and decided to pack up and hit the road. Was it a good decision? Not if those kids have to grow up without a dad, but we have yet to see what Apu will do about his decision. We know from experince he needs his job at the Quickie-Mart. So, what you want most in life is a loving wife? Good for you, man. Here's hoping you find her, just don't have to run 12 hour work days, and raise eight kids, and you should be good to go!

D) At the end of Simpsons comics #100, OFF is falling off a cliff. I was told (I don't exactly remember how) that SC#101 would continue from that. It didn't, and I'll never know what happened to them after #100. Even Bongo Comics has betrayed me.Can't help you here. But, if we all close our eyes, and think real hard. We can see Moe swooping in and saving them, as Barbra Streisand's "People Who Need People" plays in the background.

Now. Just watch and enjoy, please? The latest Tree House of Horror was a HUGE hit with this community, so, just keep an open mind.

Stewie

01-15-2005, 07:07 AM

I don't think the show is all that bad when you compare it to the other options on TV. Then, it ranges from "mediocre" to "pretty good".
It used to be the greatest show on Earth. As a whole, it still is.

Homer: Doesn't this car have airbags?!

Ned: No! The church opposes them for some reason!The show is now just a shell of it's former self. But every once in a while there are gems like that. Hilarious.

There are more reasons than just Flanders and Apu, but I agree that Flanders is a lot worse. I have never liked Flanders anyway because I always feel he's there to make fun of ME. Just because I'm a nice guy and try to live a clean life doesn't mean I lick plain-flavored popsicles or eat cucumbers topped with cottage cheese, or drive a book-burning mobile(though that was Lovejoy). Does the writing staff really see good people as unnatural freaks?You missed the point, ALL the characters are unnatural freaks. They write Ned as licking plain-flavored popsicles because it is absurd to think that a normal person would eat that. It's so extreme that it makes fun of the stereotype. Are all (or even most) cops overweight/stupid/lazy? No, but Chief Wiggum is. Are all politicians (particularly Democrats) as corrupt as Mayor Quimby? No (God I hope not).
Cops shouldn't be offended by Wiggum and clean-living religious people shouldn't be offended by Ned Flanders. Unless you really are that crazy. In which case, you deserve it.

And as other have said, the destruction of whatever characters they may have once had is not where the show jumped the shark. I'd say it was when celebrity guests started voicing themselves more often, rather than a new one-time character. Ex: Patrick Stewart voiced "Number One" in the Stonecutters episode. If he were on now, he'd be playing Patrick Stewart.

Fone Bone

01-15-2005, 10:07 AM

Seasons 10-12 were like rotten, poisoned pizza. Seasons 13-present are like a rotten pizza, minus the poison--not deadly, but not even close appealing.

Anyway, I still stand by my belief the show became far less enjoyable when the writers decided to write as many jokes possible for (insert character here) and decided plot, characterizations and charm were expendable. When writers like David Mirkin, even jokingly, say that "By the time the show ends, every character will have come out of the closet," it's just proves how much the writers take the characters for granted.The Simpsons is like pizza and sex. Even when it's bad it's still kinda good.

And guys, I don't think Flanders was always written to be this horrible character. I think he has a whole lot of positive qualities (the writers have said so in interviews too.) The idea was that Homer would basically hate this nice normal guy for no reason. The fact that the writers have made him so crazy in later seasons reflects on them, not Ned. In fact, even in the later seasons when Ned has a spotlight episode he is the most sympathetic character on the show.

As for Apu, I can't defend what the writers did to him. After he cheated on Manjula and said that horrible line "Mmmm, that's good adultery!" I stopped liking his character completely.

Killtacular

01-15-2005, 10:40 AM

The Simpsons jumped the shark in season 4. The thing is, how far could they carry this new style of the show that Oakley, Weinstein, O' Brien, Mula, and Vitti were ushering in? The answer is, they could only carry it as far as the writers' careers at FOX measured. Once Oakley and Weinstein left the show-runner position on The Simpsons in season 8 and Mike Scully took over, with his merry band of hack writers (Ian Maxtone-Graham, John Frink, Don Payne, Kevin Curran, Matt Warburton, Tim Long), the show's wings disintegrated and it sailed for the ground. They are hacks. HACKS. HACKS HACKS HACKS HACKS HACKS. That is FINAL. Trying to write in a style they were not fit to write for. They have never acclimated. That's why the show has gone so far off course. You say seasons 10-12.. it was long before that. It's just that by season 11, David X. Cohen, the last of the writers from the Oakley era, left to do Futurama. And that was a point of no return.

simpspin

01-15-2005, 11:59 AM

I don't think the show is all that bad when you compare it to the other options on TV. Then, it ranges from "mediocre" to "pretty good".
It used to be the greatest show on Earth. As a whole, it still is.
I don't watch the first eight seasons sundays from 8-8:30, much less the entire 15 seasons, so the 'whole' run of the show is irrelevent to how the new episode airing is.

The show is now just a shell of it's former self. But every once in a while there are gems like that. Hilarious.
Yeah, uh...I'll go take a test and get 1 outta every 11 answers correct and see if I can get an "A". Then, if I get an "F" I'll whine about how I used to get "A's" all the time and I should continue to be graded well based on past performance.

You missed the point, ALL the characters are unnatural freaks. They write Ned as licking plain-flavored popsicles because it is absurd to think that a normal person would eat that...
A lot of the show, at least first seven seasons, was a slight step out of reality with an occasional bit of surrealism. A critic once said: "The Simpsons used to be reality addressed through a cartoon, now it's the opposite--the show is a cartoon that adresses reality."

The Simpsons is like pizza and sex. Even when it's bad it's still kinda good.
Now that sounds REALLY desperate! :ack:

You know, I am getting pretty sick of hearing about how much this community hates The Simpsons. You are probably just following "popular opinion" and instantly agreeing,
Well, just like the people who chide: "If you don't like, don't watch it!", then "If you don't like the opinions, don't come here!". Also, if the show was doing so well, how did this bashing become 'popular'?

The Simpsons have jumped the shark. You probably go into an episode wondering "I wonder how much it will suck this week?" and you watch, and wait for something you don't like so you can write off the whole season.
For me, it took four seasons of getting my hopes up before I started to develop an apathy for any new seasons. Now I go into an episode hoping a half-hour of my life isn't wasted.

Eddy

01-15-2005, 12:07 PM

The Simpsons jumped the shark a long time ago and I've long since given up on the series. Not for the reasons you've stated exactly, but the show has become bland and un-funny.

The hackneyed writing has killed the show, which is sad because it used to be very likeable.

Fone Bone

01-15-2005, 01:15 PM

Now that sounds REALLY desperate! :ack:
Most of my opinions are.:D

Dee

01-15-2005, 01:52 PM

It's not as great as it used to be, but I frankly don't care. It's not the end of the world, and when analyzation of the show gets to this point, we've got a problem.

I'm darn lucky if I can even catch the show anymore. I can't ever find it here, and theres always sports on.

Nick

01-15-2005, 02:33 PM

The Simpsons jumped the shark in season 4. The thing is, how far could they carry this new style of the show that Oakley, Weinstein, O' Brien, Mula, and Vitti were ushering in? I agree with that. The reason why the zany, wacky humour in seasons 4-7 was funny because it was fresh to the show, but they managed to keep the qualities the show also had established in the first three seasons. In season 8 they pushed the wacky humour too far making the characters go out-of-character, and the episodes that tried to be empathetic seemed far fetched (see "My Sister My Sitter" and "The Homer They Fall"). In season 9 they was few emotional bits and the wackiness was pushed even further. By season 10 the silliness and wackiness was pushed to the extreme for "The Simpsons". The wackiness may of worked if the jokes were actually well directed, but for the most part they weren't. I think the show is slightly worse now because they are trying to force the emotion back in. It's like when you let a dog roam free in your backyard and then you try to pull it in.

Kury Wagner

01-15-2005, 02:39 PM

Seasons 10-12 were like rotten, poisoned pizza. Seasons 13-present are like a rotten pizza, minus the poison--not deadly, but not even close appealing.Agreed. I didn't even enjoy the beloved last Treehouse ep like everyone else.

Classic Speedy

01-15-2005, 04:04 PM

Once Oakley and Weinstein left the show-runner position on The Simpsons in season 8 and Mike Scully took over, with his merry band of hack writers (Ian Maxtone-Graham, John Frink, Don Payne, Kevin Curran, Matt Warburton, Tim Long), the show's wings disintegrated and it sailed for the ground. Oakley & Weinstein were still the executive producers for Season 8. Scully didn't assume that position until Season 9 (though he WAS a co-executive producer in season 8, I'll give you that). And most of the writers you listed didn't start until Season 10, at the earliest (Tim Long wrote part of Simpsons Bible Stories, for example, and Ian Maxtome-Graham started in Season 9 and only wrote a handful of episodes). Frink & Payne didn't start until Season 12; Matt Warburton in Season 13; Kevin Curran in Season 14. And generally that's the time period that fans regard as the worst.

Merilee

01-15-2005, 04:05 PM

There are more reasons than just Flanders and Apu, but I agree that Flanders is a lot worse. I have never liked Flanders anyway because I always feel he's there to make fun of ME. Just because I'm a nice guy and try to live a clean life doesn't mean I lick plain-flavored popsicles or eat cucumbers topped with cottage cheese, or drive a book-burning mobile(though that was Lovejoy). Does the writing staff really see good people as unnatural freaks? How disturbing....

I'm not looking forward to what Flanders will end up doing on the February gay marriage episode. >_<
I think they do. That's one of the reasons I stopped watching a LONG time ago, it got WAY too much for me. That ad the celebrities playing themselves just got annoying.
But believe it or not, I actually knew someone (read- KNEW- as in used to know-) who behaved EXACTLY like that! Honest, no satire, no stereotype there! I mean, I too considered Flanders an insult cause I myself am a religious, God fearing person, but that's before I met her. Picture this- a girl in a LONG (down to the floor) green or black WOOL dress, a huge sweater, and a large cross on a string around her neck. And it wasn't just for the winter. I invited her to the mall with me during a 70 degree spring day, she was still wearing the dress and SWEATER!! In the summer I thought she'd get a lighter colored dress anyway, STILL in the dress and SWEATER in 90 degrees! She said she was doing penance for her sins and also that's we should do NO legs , No arms at all, not even outr NECK cause it was innapproproate! HUH?! OK, long clevage that shows too much I can understand ,but no NECK or ARMS?!That's when I should have run, I know, but it gets worse!
Went over to her home once, now I have a few religious things on my walls, a painting of Mary, a crucifix, but I also have other things, a picture of the Monkees (Mickey! :)) a calander, some awards, etc. All she had on her walls were religous pictures..and NOTHING ELSE! Every part of her room had nothing but religious stuff! Also she never really wanted to have fun with me! I mean, I like Church as much as the next person, but I dn't want to go all the time! That's all she wanted to do with me was go to church! She said I HAD to go every day, I don't have time to do that!
When I go to the Bergen Mall in my hometown, I want to shop! But there's a chapel down in the basement of the mall, and she would only invite me down there to go to mass, and nothing else!
She didn't like to listen to music woth me. To her, if a singer is divorced, or cheated on his wife, his music isn't good! She even hated the oldies station I love and great tunes like ones from The Monkees (Yes, I'm a Monkee girl!) cause some of the singers are divorced! So the MUSIC was bad cause he SINGERS are divorced?!
Needless to say the only thing she ever listened to is Catholic speeches on tape. The only channel she ever watched is ESPN. If a character in a movie sad , "oh God." or "hell," even "damn" the entire movie was bad! She even hated 'The Wizard of Oz' cause of the witch! I mean, 'The Wizard Of Oz!'
And yes, just like Flanders, she was against all religions who weren't Catholic! I mean, she was so prejudiced! I had a friend who was Baptist, she said she was on her way to Hell cause she "renounced God" Uh, Baptists didn't renounce GOD, they renounced the PRIESTS in the CHURCH! There's a HUGE diffference!! She even condemned my Dad for being a Lutherin and sayig he shouldn't have married my Catholic Mom!
That's the straw that broke te camels back for me and why I don't talk to her anymore!
So see, Flanders really isn't a stereotype cause I knew a real life Flanders!! Scary, huh?
But also saying God pefers Homer is equally bad, thugh, cause Homer is anything BUT religous! He purposely goes against God's wishes, which is wrong in andf of itself. So, yeah, I do think they don't like god, God-fearing peple, but I also think they're warning us about the real life Flanders in the world cause believe me they DO exist!
Merilee
:cool:

T.T.Raven4

01-15-2005, 04:09 PM

I think you take The Simpsons a little too seriously. I'm surprised there's someone out there who follows the comics.
Yup. Exactly.

Jave

01-15-2005, 04:35 PM

Oakley & Weinstein were still the executive producers for Season 8. Scully didn't assume that position until Season 9 (though he WAS a co-executive producer in season 8, I'll give you that). And most of the writers you listed didn't start until Season 10, at the earliest (Tim Long wrote part of Simpsons Bible Stories, for example, and Ian Maxtome-Graham started in Season 9 and only wrote a handful of episodes). Frink & Payne didn't start until Season 12; Matt Warburton in Season 13; Kevin Curran in Season 14. And generally that's the time period that fans regard as the worst.Ian Maxtone-Graham joined the crew in season 7 as a producer. His first writing credit was "Burn, Baby Burns", which was from season 8.

Stewie

01-15-2005, 05:07 PM

So see, Flanders really isn't a stereotype cause I knew a real life Flanders!! Scary, huh?
But also saying God pefers Homer is equally bad, thugh, cause Homer is anything BUT religous! He purposely goes against God's wishes, which is wrong in andf of itself. So, yeah, I do think they don't like god, God-fearing peple, but I also think they're warning us about the real life Flanders in the world cause believe me they DO exist!
:cool:You're funny.
You missed the point, ALL the characters are unnatural freaks. They write Ned as licking plain-flavored popsicles because it is absurd to think that a normal person would eat that. It's so extreme that it makes fun of the stereotype. Are all (or even most) cops overweight/stupid/lazy? No, but Chief Wiggum is. Are all politicians (particularly Democrats) as corrupt as Mayor Quimby? No (God I hope not).
Cops shouldn't be offended by Wiggum and clean-living religious people shouldn't be offended by Ned Flanders. Unless you really are that crazy. In which case, you deserve it.
Plus you've confused God, the popular deity, with God, a character on the show The Simpsons.

Harley Quinn

01-15-2005, 07:38 PM

And yes, just like Flanders, she was against all religions who weren't Catholic! I mean, she was so prejudiced! I had a friend who was Baptist, she said she was on her way to Hell cause she "renounced God" Uh, Baptists didn't renounce GOD, they renounced the PRIESTS in the CHURCH! There's a HUGE diffference!! She even condemned my Dad for being a Lutherin and sayig he shouldn't have married my Catholic Mom!

Merilee
:cool:
I always thought Ned Flanders and The Simpsons (as in, the attendents of Reverend Lovejoy's church) were all Protestants, not Catholics. But maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. I haven't paid attention to the religious aspect of the show for years now. Basically I don't remember if Maude or Ned ever put emphasis on a Rosary, which you KNOW they would do if they were Catholic.

SirLemming

01-15-2005, 08:22 PM

I always thought Ned Flanders and The Simpsons (as in, the attendents of Reverend Lovejoy's church) were all Protestants, not Catholics. But maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. I haven't paid attention to the religious aspect of the show for years now. Basically I don't remember if Maude or Ned ever put emphasis on a Rosary, which you KNOW they would do if they were Catholic.Definitely Protestant and not Catholic, although in a recent episode Rev. Lovejoy said "Mass dismissed", which was a pretty pointless, careless, thoughtless gag (I mean, normally it's no big deal, but is it really worth it to make that silly pun when it creates such inaccuracy?). But in one episode Bart says they should turn Catholic so they can get "free booze". In "Homer Simpson in Kidney Trouble" Marge asks, "Are you going to perform the last rites?" and Lovejoy says "That's Catholic, Marge. You might as well ask me to do a voo-doo dance!" The Flanders family definitely seems more Protestant than Catholic, generally speaking. I'm also reminded of when the children are building church sandcastles in "Insane Clown Poppy" and Ned says "I don't know, kids, those steeples are looking a little Roman-esque."

I don't think Ned Flanders' character has suffered exceptionally over the years, except for when he had premarital sex in "A Star Is Born-Again", which was a travesty. (I mean, it's cool and all to do a story about Flanders doing something that defies his beliefs, but MAKE IT COUNT! He had no remorse at all.) He's more shallow than he used to be, but only to the extent that everyone in the show is. And if you think it's overly shallow for the show's super-Christian character to be homophobic and against other religions, I don't know what world you're living in.

Classic Speedy

01-15-2005, 09:02 PM

Ian Maxtone-Graham joined the crew in season 7 as a producer. His first writing credit was "Burn, Baby Burns", which was from season 8. Oh yeah, I forgot about "Burns, Baby Burns". Funny episode, that one. I'll rephrase it that Maxtome-Graham started writing on a semi-regular basis in Season 9.

Really, there wasn't a single episode in Season 8 that I would regard as below average. All are great watches in re-runs. Yes, I am a fan of "The Homer They Fall". I don't see why it gets such hate. Nobody was out of character, the dilemma that Moe was facing with Lucius Sweet was interesting, and the ending fight with Tatum generated tension.

I suppose you could argue that Season 8 is when the plots became more fantastical/unrealistic ("The Homer They Fall" included), but they were done MILES BETTER than anything in Seasons 10-12. If "Mountain of Madness" were made in the recent years, there'd probably be an unnecessary scene where Burns is frozen, his arm falls off, and he nonchalantly whispers to Homer, "Would you mind picking that up?"

And Season 8 had some of the sharpest writing of the entire series. The shot at BOTH the fans and producers in "Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie", Homer sending a jealous man to his insanity/death, Flanders finally losing it (come on, who HASN'T wanted to see that?), the well-written gay episode, one of the best and most humanistic Homer-centric episodes ("The Mysterious Voyage of Homer"), Milhouse's parents getting a divorce and the impact that it has on Homer/Marge, Lovejoy worrying that he's losing his church, etc. The way they combined comedy and drama worked so well, aside from a few "goofy" episodes like the Mary Poppins parody and the Spin-Off Showcase (still, classic episodes).

Fone Bone

01-15-2005, 09:14 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot about "Burns, Baby Burns". Funny episode, that one. I'll rephrase it that Maxtome-Graham started writing on a semi-regular basis in Season 9.

Really, there wasn't a single episode in Season 8 that I would regard as below average. All are great watches in re-runs. Yes, I am a fan of "The Homer They Fall". I don't see why it gets such hate. Nobody was out of character, the dilemma that Moe was facing with Lucius Sweet was interesting, and the ending fight with Tatum generated tension.

I suppose you could argue that Season 8 is when the plots became more fantastical/unrealistic ("The Homer They Fall" included), but they were done MILES BETTER than anything in Seasons 10-12. If "Mountain of Madness" were made in the recent years, there'd probably be an unnecessary scene where Burns is frozen, his arm falls off, and he nonchalantly whispers to Homer, "Would you mind picking that up?"

And Season 8 had some of the sharpest writing of the entire series. The shot at BOTH the fans and producers in "Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie", Homer sending a jealous man to his insanity/death, Flanders finally losing it (come on, who HASN'T wanted to see that?), the well-written gay episode, one of the best and most humanistic Homer-centric episodes ("The Mysterious Voyage of Homer"), Milhouse's parents getting a divorce and the impact that it has on Homer/Marge, Lovejoy worrying that he's losing his church, etc. The way they combined comedy and drama worked so well, aside from a few "goofy" episodes like the Mary Poppins parody and the Spin-Off Showcase (still, classic episodes).Season eight was the best written season in my opinion. The Homer They Fall was hilarious particularly the part where there is a prison riot and Drederick Tatum says in a slightly annoyed voice "c'mon guys shut up," and all of the prisoners lock themselves back in their cells. A VERY funny episode.

The entire season was the best. You Only Move Twice is the best season premeire in Simpsons history (although I bet it was held over from season seven.)

simpspin

01-15-2005, 11:09 PM

Season eight was the best written season in my opinion. The Homer They Fall was hilarious particularly the part where there is a prison riot and Drederick Tatum says in a slightly annoyed voice "c'mon guys shut up," and all of the prisoners lock themselves back in their cells. A VERY funny episode.
And don't forget the "Surgical 2X4" gag, too! :p

Personally, I think seasons 4 and 6 were the best. Season 8's plots seem too unsettled, like a lot of the modern Jean era episodes. Homer's Enemy is the most overrated episode of all time and the Canine Mutiny was really bland and unfunny.

The entire season was the best. You Only Move Twice is the best season premeire in Simpsons history (although I bet it was held over from season seven.)
It was.

SirLemming

01-15-2005, 11:21 PM

Homer's Enemy is the most overrated episode of all timeWHAT? I've seen that episode get almost nothing but flak, and I'm baffled as to why. Maybe Toon Zone is just weird like that, compared to the rest of the audience.

Sunset Girl

01-16-2005, 12:03 AM

I was an avid Simpson fan back during the first two seasons (during the legendary "Simpson-mania" craze), but my dad finally had enough and I didn't get to watch it anymore.

My brother, who had just moved off on his own, was an avid fan himself and offered to tape me episodes but somehow that never happened.

Years later, I caught an episode here and there, and was surprised by how much the show had changed. I still really enjoyed it, though. And when the first season DVD was released, I bought it and realized how very tame it had actually been back then and laughed at all the contoversy it stirred at the time.

My brother strongly dislikes it these days, but I'm guessing it mostly has to do with the fact that he's become so religious and just about everything to him is sinful.

Now my boyfriend watches it every night at 10:30 without fail. I have no clue which episodes are from which seasons unless it's a really early one. Ironically, my boyfriend doesn't even like the first two seasons, saying that it felt too much like a generic sitcom back then. As for the later episodes, I like them fine and catch myself laughing out loud, but I'm not exactly watching the clock for it to come on like he does (and he's not as a big of an animation fan as me).

So anyway, I don't feel I'm in any position to judge what episodes are good or bad, since I totally lost track of the series years and years ago and I fail to grasp what everyone here says it's "supposed to be." I just take it in one episode at a time. What I do remember is how wonderful and new it was to watch this piece of television history take form from the 1989 Christmas special and the first season. I remember getting excited waiting for it to air on Sunday nights, and actually having something in common with the other kids in school on Monday to talk about (I was painfully shy back then). I wonder if people forget how ground-breaking it was in those early days, and if people take it for granted now.

BTW, I like what Flanders has become; I see people like that every day. I work with children and see parents "sheltering" them from things like Harry Potter and Halloween. I see people that despise and/or fear religions that are not their own. I don't think that they're making fun of religious people, they're making fun of intolerant people that live in so much fear of God that they can't function as normal people.

Merilee

01-16-2005, 01:47 AM

I see people like that every day. I work with children and see parents "sheltering" them from things like Harry Potter and Halloween. I see people that despise and/or fear religions that are not their own. I don't think that they're making fun of religious people, they're making fun of intolerant people that live in so much fear of God that they can't function as normal people.
Exactly, like my former friend, which even I, a God-fearing Christain, finally couldn't take anymore! But you forgot prejudice against Jews and Muslems as well.
There ARE people like him around! People who don't know anything about having fun and think picketing in front of an abortion clinic every Saturday is a good time. (I'm anti-abortion, but come ON, every single SATURDAY?!) I mean, even I say get a life!
That's who Flanders was making fun of!
Merilee
:cool:

murmur

01-16-2005, 02:31 AM

Fone Bone, I'm not sure I've ever had a piece of pizza I didn't like (unless I was overstuffing myself because it was so good), but I have seen bad Simpson's episodes, rare though they may be. And again, its thankfully been rare for me, but trust me, there is also such a thing as bad s...well, I better stop myself here before the mods have a word with me. Back on topic:

I understand the hard-core fans who can't stand that the full glory of a beloved show is now muted. Like, its presence still reminds you of what it could be. Fortunately for me, I'm not quite as hard-core and I still try to enjoy it for what it is, not lament for what it was. But yeah, I do get it, and if I spent more time thinking about it I would lament too probably. :sad: That's why I'll...hey, look at the pretty bunny!! :D

90'sCartoonMan

01-16-2005, 02:44 AM

I suppose you could argue that Season 8 is when the plots became more fantastical/unrealistic ("The Homer They Fall" included), but they were done MILES BETTER than anything in Seasons 10-12. If "Mountain of Madness" were made in the recent years, there'd probably be an unnecessary scene where Burns is frozen, his arm falls off, and he nonchalantly whispers to Homer, "Would you mind picking that up?"
Wow, I could really see that joke happening. And it wouldn't be funny. Simpsons does too many shock jokes now.

Where Flanders is concerned, he is more of a generic stereotype often used as a punchline rather than a real character with a firm set of beliefs and reasons behind those beliefs. Unfortunately, many of the characters have devolved in this way.

Fone Bone

01-16-2005, 08:31 AM

WHAT? I've seen that episode get almost nothing but flak, and I'm baffled as to why. Maybe Toon Zone is just weird like that, compared to the rest of the audience.I agree. People here hate it. I think it is the most underrated episode of all time.

Fone Bone, I'm not sure I've ever had a piece of pizza I didn't like (unless I was overstuffing myself because it was so good), but I have seen bad Simpson's episodes, rare though they may be. And again, its thankfully been rare for me, but trust me, there is also such a thing as bad s...well, I better stop myself here before the mods have a word with me. Back on topic:

I understand the hard-core fans who can't stand that the full glory of a beloved show is now muted. Like, its presence still reminds you of what it could be. Fortunately for me, I'm not quite as hard-core and I still try to enjoy it for what it is, not lament for what it was. But yeah, I do get it, and if I spent more time thinking about it I would lament too probably. :sad: That's why I'll...hey, look at the pretty bunny!! :D

I know. I've seen horrible Simpsons episodes too. My point was that MOST of the recent episodes, no matter how much they are bashed here have SOME funny gags and redeeming value. The idea of being called one of the worst shows on TV right now because it isn't as great as it used to be baffles me.

CryptiniteDemon

01-16-2005, 09:03 AM

These are the best four reasons you can come up with? That's some sad rationalization there.

Jolly Bengali

01-16-2005, 12:57 PM

WHAT? I've seen that episode get almost nothing but flak, and I'm baffled as to why. Maybe Toon Zone is just weird like that, compared to the rest of the audience.
Homer's Enemy has always been one of the most controversial episodes throughout the Simpsons fanbase. While I love the episode, I totally respect and can see where the hatred of this episode comes from; many people sympathized with Frank Grimes instead of Homer, and found the episode very cold-hearted.

Fone Bone

01-16-2005, 01:05 PM

Homer's Enemy has always been one of the most controversial episodes throughout the Simpsons fanbase. While I love the episode, I totally respect and can see where the hatred of this episode comes from; many people sympathized with Frank Grimes instead of Homer, and found the episode very cold-hearted.I always sympathized with Homer. Homer wasn't doing anything worse than he usually does and this guy was trying to humiliate him. The lesson I got from the episode was that just when Grimes life starts to get together he gets killed wasting his time trying to make someone else look bad instead of just trying to live life the best he could (which is ironically how Homer was living his life in that episode. He tried to straighten out his behavior for Grimes sake and Grimes only mocked him). I sympathized with Homer mainly because I'm socially retarded too.

But yeah, if you didn't sympathize with Homer the episode COULD have been hard to take.

The Landstander

01-16-2005, 01:06 PM

"Homer's Enemy" was one of the darkest episodes of the show. I always liked it; but I could see why someone wouldn't.

As for the show itself, season 9 was where the downfall began (though the majority of season 9 is at least watchably decent and has some really good ones), and by season 11 it had lost it. I wouldn't say the show is the worst show on TV; but really, it seems whenever I watch an episode it's not much better than 90% of TV.

And for a show that was once as good as it was, that's pretty sad.

SirLemming

01-16-2005, 02:47 PM

Homer's Enemy has always been one of the most controversial episodes throughout the Simpsons fanbase. While I love the episode, I totally respect and can see where the hatred of this episode comes from; many people sympathized with Frank Grimes instead of Homer, and found the episode very cold-hearted.I sympathized with Frank Grimes, actually (I also think Homer was as likeable as he needed to be, but I happen to be more like Grimes in this case). I sympathized with being the guy who just can't understand why some people act so annoying and stupid. And that's why I love the episode -- it's a dark comedy about a real-life truth. Sometimes hard-working, intelligent people get trampled on by this world while idiots with good luck manage to succeed. If Homer were a mean character it'd lessen the point of the episode, but because he was so benignly, non-maliciously stupid, it accentuated the fact that it's just the way the world works sometimes. It's not that stupid people are keeping you down, it's just that life does that sometimes. And like all the best Simpsons episodes, the truth was presented in a way that we can laugh with.

Tom Mewer

01-16-2005, 02:55 PM

Homer: I found an invitation to that guy's funeral.

Marge: You mean Frank Grimes?

Homer: Yeah. I wonder what happened to that guy.

Kryten

01-16-2005, 03:14 PM

These are the best four reasons you can come up with? That's some sad rationalization there.
It's Panozzi. His logic is not like our Earth logic.

MonkeyFunk

01-16-2005, 03:17 PM

I think I read an inteview with one of the writers who said that Frank Griems was meant to be a "real" person, who couldn't survive in the Simpsons' fictional world.

simpspin

01-16-2005, 03:55 PM

I always sympathized with Homer. Homer wasn't doing anything worse than he usually does and this guy was trying to humiliate him.

But yeah, if you didn't sympathize with Homer the episode COULD have been hard to take.
This episode really made me go "what the hell?". I didn't care about either characters's plights, but c'mon! Homer's supposed to be a SLIGHTLY stupid man who's gets somewhat grumpy, but is still loveable to those he cares about. He's not a man who's a borderline crazy/people pleasing mental patient who isn't control of his bodily functions. :mad: But if we're going to exaggerate Homer's stupidity to make this episode work, why not make an episode where Bart is throwing rocks and shooting at old people 'cause Bart just loves michief!

Jave

01-16-2005, 03:59 PM

This episode really made me go "what the hell?". I didn't care about either characters's plights, but c'mon! Homer's supposed to be a SLIGHTLY stupid man who's gets somewhat grumpy, but is still loveable to those he cares about. He's not a man who's a borderline crazy/people pleasing mental patient who isn't control of his bodily functions. :mad: But if we're going to exaggerate Homer's stupidity to make this episode work, why not make an episode where Bart is throwing rocks and shooting at old people 'cause Bart just loves michief!What? That's perhaps the worst analogy ever.

If you honestly think Homer is supposed to be only SLIGHTLY stupid, then you haven't been watching the series. Seriously.

BTW, Homer is perfectly in control of his actions, it's just a lot of times his actions aren't the right ones. "Homer's Enemy" shows that. And perfectly.

Tom Mewer

01-16-2005, 04:12 PM

"Homer's IQ is connected to the ratings"

Fone Bone

01-16-2005, 07:26 PM

I sympathized with Frank Grimes, actually (I also think Homer was as likeable as he needed to be, but I happen to be more like Grimes in this case). I sympathized with being the guy who just can't understand why some people act so annoying and stupid. And that's why I love the episode -- it's a dark comedy about a real-life truth. Sometimes hard-working, intelligent people get trampled on by this world while idiots with good luck manage to succeed. If Homer were a mean character it'd lessen the point of the episode, but because he was so benignly, non-maliciously stupid, it accentuated the fact that it's just the way the world works sometimes. It's not that stupid people are keeping you down, it's just that life does that sometimes. And like all the best Simpsons episodes, the truth was presented in a way that we can laugh with.Another thing I loved about the episode was that everyone took a different message/meaning from it. It is very mature for a television series to be so ambiguous and let the viewers draw their own conclusions.