Various questions concerning classic cartoons

[Jack]

These are just some things that have been floating around in my head:

Has anyone ever seen the Cinemascope versions of the MGM cartoons made in both foremats (Dixiland Droopy, Pet Peeve, Tops With Pops)? Do they have any "special" character titles? Different from the Cinemascope cartoons to come later? And what do the title cards look like?

Does "We're In To Win" to have any "real" lyrics other than the ones used in "Scrap Happy Daffy?"

Is it true that the animator's tables at WB were made by Acme?

Does anyone know where Robert Gribbroek dissapeared to between 1952 and 1955? Did he go back to New Mexico with his art colony pals?

Someone mentioned in another thread that Lantz could have gooten Hanna and Barbera to direct cartoons for him. Is that just wishful thinking, or did Lantz really try to get them, and bungle it up?

What did Bob Cannon animate in Odor-Able Kitty?

Anyone have any answers to the above?


Jack :D

[TServo2049]

Originally posted by Jack
Has anyone ever seen the Cinemascope versions of the MGM cartoons made in both foremats (Dixiland Droopy, Pet Peeve, Tops With Pops)? Do they have any "special" character titles? Different from the Cinemascope cartoons to come later? And what do the title cards look like?

Well, I BELIEVE that the print of Pet Peeve that CN runs is the CinemaScope print, but squeezed to fit the shape of a TV screen. (Notice how everyone looks taller and thinner than usual)

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by TServo2049
Well, I BELIEVE that the print of Pet Peeve that CN runs is the CinemaScope print, but squeezed to fit the shape of a TV screen. (Notice how everyone looks taller and thinner than usual)


The print of "Southbound Duckling" that CN runs is a pan-and-scan version. A full-screen version was released on video and laserdisc by MGM/UA. Here are some pictures of the CN version vs. the version available on video:

http://looney.toonzone.net/picts/southbound/


-Jon

[Jack]

CN shows pan and scan prints of cartoons that were released "flat?" What were they thinking? They have a beautiful full screen print available! How many other cartoons were shot in both foremats, but CN only shows a pan and scan version?

It looks like they animated the cartoon in the old foremat, and just cropped the top and bottom of each frame for the Cinemascope version.


Jack :confused:

[TServo2049]

Originally posted by Jack
CN shows pan and scan prints of cartoons that were released "flat?" What were they thinking? They have a beautiful full screen print available! How many other cartoons were shot in both foremats, but CN only shows a pan and scan version?

OK..."Touche, Pussy Cat" and (possibly) "Pet Peeve." (That cartoon is squeezed to fit the screen, but the titles (which are also squeezed, like the rest of the cartoon) do not say "In CinemaScope.")

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Jack
It looks like they animated the cartoon in the old format, and just cropped the top and bottom of each frame for the Cinemascope version.


That's exactly what they did, according to either Hanna or Barbera (can't remember which) in Charles Solomon's Enchanted Drawings. He called it "bastard CinemaScope".

[DarthGonzo]

Originally posted by TServo2049


OK..."Touche, Pussy Cat" and (possibly) "Pet Peeve." (That cartoon is squeezed to fit the screen, but the titles (which are also squeezed, like the rest of the cartoon) do not say "In CinemaScope.")

Pet Peeve and the Flying Scorceress were both released on video in the full-frame format but for some reason CN shows pan and scan prints of widescreen editions. Neither of these cartoons (as well as Tom and Cherie) have any mention of being filmed in cinemascope.

Here's a good question, why did Edward Plumb score the music for The Missing Mouse, and not Scott Bradley.

[Jack]

Originally posted by DarthGonzo


Pet Peeve and the Flying Scorceress were both released on video in the full-frame format but for some reason CN shows pan and scan prints of widescreen editions. Neither of these cartoons (as well as Tom and Cherie) have any mention of being filmed in cinemascope.
Which makes the pan and scan jobs that much worse, it's really just zooming in on the image (the tops and bottoms chopped off for "CinemaScope" and the sides cut off for Pan and Scan). CN should get the full frame prints of the "bastard CinemaScope" cartoons (since both versions are "correct" and original, why not get the one that fills the whole screen?), and show the true CinemaScope cartoons in letterbox.


Jack :D

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by Jack
These are just some things that have been floating around in my head:

Is it true that the animator's tables at WB were made by Acme?

Someone mentioned in another thread that Lantz could have gooten Hanna and Barbera to direct cartoons for him. Is that just wishful thinking, or did Lantz really try to get them, and bungle it up?

Anyone have any answers to the above?


Jack :D


Okay...

The ORIGINAL Schlesinger animator's tables were actually made by the carpenters of the Warner Bros. studio. In fact they were made so the light table did NOT rotate (thus animators had to unpin their drawings and turn them around to check them out, the Schlesinger animators REALLY earned their money). The reason???? Simple. Leon was starting his studio from scratch and the construction was thus rushed radically. It is ASTOUNDING they worked at all!! Schlesinger used the same "haste makes waste" approach in his first hirings, nabbing Tom Palmer, Earl Duvall, and Jack King from D*sn*y ("Hey if HE had them they must be tops" :D). The next wave of hirings was eminently shrewder... Just steal half of the best Harman-Ising animators away from Hugh and Rudy. Now if they had just gotten them REAL animation tables then...

I confess... It was me who mentioned the POSSIBILITY of Lantz hiring Hanna and Barbera. They had ZERO chances of any other studio giving them theatrical work. Warners? NO, D*sn*y NO, UPA... whoa! weird thought, NO. And the others were on the East Coast (and in not great shape). Since Lantz had hired Tex, Shamus Culhane, and Dick Lundy, there would not have been any shame in them talking with Lantz. BUUUUUUT I know of NO evidence of it actually occuring.

[BobChief]

Jack wrote:
CN should get the full frame prints of the "bastard CinemaScope" cartoons (since both versions are "correct" and original, why not get the one that fills the whole screen?), and show the true CinemaScope cartoons in letterbox.

This is an OLD issue. They'll gladly get widescreen human-type flicks for A-Oh-Swell-owned TCM without a thought, why not CN?

Pan-and-scan BITES!! :p