Suikoden IV talkback

[Artimus Gigan]

Alright wow this RPG is nothing short off....boring.

The opening I was expecting an animated sequence like Suikoden III with a catchy song, but I am greeted with carribian music and really uninspiring character sequences. Yeah graphicly it looks better than III, but really story is like kaput. The good thing is the game is very short, so it's not dragged out to a tedium. It's not bad just medicore, the battle system is very fast so random encounters don't last long.

Oh and those cats are freaky as hell, I'm going to be having nightmares about them for weeks. Really their big souless eyesm their hunched over posture, their tate in victorian era clothing....

[SSJPabs]

This is what happens when the creator of the series leaves in the middle of the last game. Ah well, next paycheck I'll be picking it up and hoping it doesn't suck horrendously bad.

[Artimus Gigan]

It's one of those games that isn't bad...just slow...really slow and boring.

And really I can't imagine a novelisation of the game like they did with Suikoden III....Story is like bits and pieces and even though it's short you still can get all 108 Stars of Destiny. However now I wonder if they will re-release Suikoden 1 and 2 in some other form, since 4 is a prequel.

[Jude Santos]

It's one of those games that isn't bad...just slow...really slow and boring.

And really I can't imagine a novelisation of the game like they did with Suikoden III....Story is like bits and pieces and even though it's short you still can get all 108 Stars of Destiny. However now I wonder if they will re-release Suikoden 1 and 2 in some other form, since 4 is a prequel. I do not find the game slow at all, I'm nine hours into the game and the story has been captivating so far. To me, the only boring part of the game is traveling from one island to the other, but I just got rid of that thanks to vicki.

Anyhow, I find IV to be way better than SIII (<---which did nothing but completly ruin the series imo). SIV feels more like the original. Of course, no one beats SII. Konami should seriously consider re-releasing the first 2 games. As for the intro...I like it, very Suikoden 1996 (one of the reasons why it feels like the original).

This is what happens when the creator of the series leaves in the middle of the last game. Ah well, next paycheck I'll be picking it up and hoping it doesn't suck horrendously bad. I've been out of the loop since SII. I bought SIII and SIV when I saw it in stores, never even knew the games were being made, but yea, can you fill me in on what happened (never knew the creator left...must been why SIII sucked liked no other)?

[Artimus Gigan]

I've been out of the loop since SII. I bought SIII and SIV when I saw it in stores, never even knew the games were being made, but yea, can you fill me in on what happened (never knew the creator left...must been why SIII sucked liked no other)?SIII didn't suck, yeah the team attacks made some things one sided depending on who you used, but I made it thru with all 108 stars. S IV however is a step diown from III in alotta ways.

[ohmrbill]

I'm actually surprised about the mediocre reviews the game has been getting. The general consensus among fans of the series seems to have been that IV is superior to III.

Oh well, I'll have my hands on it in a couple of weeks, and then I can decide for myself.

[Artimus Gigan]

I've only played III and IV, so maybe because this takes place in the past it features Old Characetrs and locations...or somthing


I'm just not feeling it

[SSJPabs]

I'm getting it today. Anyhow I love SIII. I've only played SI and SIII but I have to admit, SIII is what brought my love of RPG games back. I wrote pages of NOTES about it!

Anyhow, the creator left because as I understand it (thanks to suikosource) he wanted to have a Sasarai POV. But Konami wanted to reduce actual development time and so Murayama(sp?) left in the middle of Chapter 4.

I am severely disappointed at its prequel status. I wanted to see the continuation of the story, specifically I wondered if Dunan and Toran would form a more concrete alliance with the Grasslands and Zexen to resist Harmonia. Ah well, hopefully I can enjoy it but with Star Ocean being such a let down storywise and its future as a franchise in doubt I can only hope Suikoden doesn't drop the ball.

[Jude Santos]

I've only played III and IV, so maybe because this takes place in the past it features Old Characetrs and locations...or somthing


I'm just not feeling it
Which is probably why. III took a major step away from the first two games. No silent protagonist is one of them and that poor excuse they call Flame Champ doesn't cut it Although, from what I noticed, a lot of people who never played the first two games loved the third one. IV plays more like the original Suikoden, so if you didn't like IV, then I'd bet you won't like the first two either (well, the first one for sure).

As for IV, so far there haven't been any same locations (except for the mentioning of the Scarlet Moon Empire, from SI) and there is really only one character from the original (not counting the return characters like Jeane, Vicki etc), and we all know who he is :)

[Artimus Gigan]

Which is probably why. III took a major step away from the first two games. No silent protagonist is one of them and that poor excuse they call Flame Champ doesn't cut it Although, from what I noticed, a lot of people who never played the first two games loved the third one. IV plays more like the original Suikoden, so if you didn't like IV, then I'd bet you won't like the first two either (well, the first one for sure).

As for IV, so far there haven't been any same locations (except for the mentioning of the Scarlet Moon Empire, from SI) and there is really only one character from the original (not counting the return characters like Jeane, Vicki etc), and we all know who he is :)IIRC Geddoe, Chris, or Hugo could either be the flame champion

the game was open ended

[SSJPabs]

IIRC Geddoe, Chris, or Hugo could either be the flame champion

the game was open endedOfficial path is Hugo.

I enjoyed III because of the political elements.

[Artimus Gigan]

Official path is Hugo.

I enjoyed III because of the political elements.True the offical path is Hugo

But I am sorta miffed that my data from 3 couldn't be transfered to the next game.


Maybe V will be able to.

[Bryangst]

Official path is Hugo. Only reason for that is because Hugo was the best with Fire magic, Chris with water, Geddoe because he was already the bearer of the True Lightning and because he sucks with fire. Beyond that, I don't really think there was an official path...

[Jude Santos]

True the offical path is Hugo

But I am sorta miffed that my data from 3 couldn't be transfered to the next game.


Maybe V will be able to. heh, you don't know data transfer until you play the second one (with the data from the first, obviously). Which brings another reason on why I hated SIII, you just get a lousy play (i think there was two), and some references to the armies from the first two (boosted levels also, but like the game was really hard :shrug: )

Only reason for that is because Hugo was the best with Fire magic, Chris with water, Geddoe because he was already the bearer of the True Lightning and because he sucks with fire. Beyond that, I don't really think there was an official path... My memory is disorganized at the moment, but wasn't the True Water belong to Chris' dad's friend's (so it should go to Chris)? Someone correct me...

edit:
Official path is Hugo.

I enjoyed III because of the political elements.
I gotta agree, I did like the political elements as well. Besides that, it really wasn't that intriguing to me. The only real part in the game that I enjoyed fully is Luc's storyline, mainly becuase he was such a minor character in the first two games. I liked how they built the tension between him and Sasarai by one little dialogue line during a war battle in SII. Good stuff

Oh, the true runes for SIII wasn't that captivating. I mean, how can you compete with Soul Eater*, or Shield? The Rune of Punishment is the closest one that comes to those.

*shame they changed the soul eater for the IVth installemnt though...

[Artimus Gigan]

heh, you don't know data transfer until you play the second one (with the data from the first, obviously). Which brings another reason on why I hated SIII, you just get a lousy play (i think there was two), and some references to the armies from the first two (boosted levels also, but like the game was really hard :shrug: )

My memory is disorganized at the moment, but wasn't the True Water belong to Chris' dad's friend's (so it should go to Chris)? Someone correct me...Yeah Wyatt/Jimba was Chris's dad and if you chose Hugo she got the water rune. it's also that way in the Suikoden III Manga

I didn't really find Suikoden III all that hard, except for the Ice Serpent and the regenerating guard crystals seemed hard at first, until you realised that you had to summon the centaur army to destroy all the crystals so you could kill the main boss.

Yeah other than that, I had no problems....

[Jude Santos]

Yeah Wyatt/Jimba was Chris's dad and if you chose Hugo she got the water rune. it's also that way in the Suikoden III Manga

I didn't really find Suikoden III all that hard, except for the Ice Serpent and the regenerating guard crystals seemed hard at first, until you realised that you had to summon the centaur army to destroy all the crystals so you could kill the main boss.

Yeah other than that, I had no problems....
ah yes, noe I remember. Oh, I was using sarcasm, but I didn't see the right smilie for it so i just used "shrug."

Anyhow, you really should play II. Bar none best RPG ever, too bad it got overshadowed by FFVIII (or maybe IX) and Legend of Dragoon (great rpg's. but doesn't compare to SII)

[Artimus Gigan]

ah yes, noe I remember. Oh, I was using sarcasm, but I didn't see the right smilie for it so i just used "shrug."

Anyhow, you really should play II. Bar none best RPG ever, too bad it got overshadowed by FFVIII (or maybe IX) and Legend of Dragoon (great rpg's. but doesn't compare to SII)Suikoden II costs 80-200 bucks just to get a copy used

it's also incredibly rare

[Jude Santos]

Suikoden II costs 80-200 bucks just to get a copy used

it's also incredibly rare
Figures...it's a great game, I'd happily pay that price to get a copy...of course I have my own copy already.

Speaking of that, Konami should seriously re-release, or re-do the first two in 3D (but it'll take away it's charm). This time around, it'll get more recognition than the original release back in 96' (due to the soon to be released FFVII)

[Bryangst]

Re-releasing them in the PSone format would be just fine for me. My original copy of Suikoden II got stolen from me a while back, which pains me greatly. What an amazing game it is. And I just have not ever played the first, which I would REALLY like to do.

So yeah, I'd hate for them to be redone in 3d. It would indeed take away the charm.

[Jude Santos]

Re-releasing them in the PSone format would be just fine for me. My original copy of Suikoden II got stolen from me a while back, which pains me greatly. What an amazing game it is. And I just have not ever played the first, which I would REALLY like to do.

So yeah, I'd hate for them to be redone in 3d. It would indeed take away the charm.
If you haven't played the first one, then you really haven't completed the second one...you know what I mean, I'd think.

Anyhow, going back to Suikoden IV...
I like the voices, nice touch to add depth to dialogue. Right now, my only complaint with the game is the sea travel is too slow, and that's with the R1 button pressed.

[Bryangst]

Yeeeah, I know exactly what you mean when you say that. And that is exactly why I'd like to get my hands on the first.

I also agree. The voices are a pretty nice touch, though I'd like to have seen them used just a bit more. Sea travel should have been just a bit quicker, but it isn't horribly slow either.

So yeah, the game is pretty good so far. Could have been a bit quicker to start off, but still pretty good. I really like how the first battle of the game is a tactical ship battle.

[Artimus Gigan]

If you haven't played the first one, then you really haven't completed the second one...you know what I mean, I'd think.

Anyhow, going back to Suikoden IV...
I like the voices, nice touch to add depth to dialogue. Right now, my only complaint with the game is the sea travel is too slow, and that's with the R1 button pressed.Well considering the PSP is getting YS, Suiko I and II could easily be transfered to that format

[Chosen Raven]

This game is extremely mediocre. I've played every game in the Suikoden series, and this is by far the worst. The story is completely forgetable. Character developement is almost nil. The game suffers from horrible deseign as well. The cities are no where near the greatness of SIII(which, in my mind, takes 3rd in the Suikoden series). The spell effects are incredibly lame(even the level 4s, aside from the Punishment Rune). Having your base in a ship was a good idea. Too bad the interior looks dull and boring. And I'd really like to know what idiot deseigned the world map. The ship is slow and controls horribly, random encounters are very frequent(which makes getting from one island to the next a nightmare, until you can teleport), and islands have an invisible barrier that stretches out from them which makes getting to the docks a huge chore. Also, I find the ship battles to be rather boring and extremely easy.

There are some good things about the game that keep it from being horrible, though. The artwork is gorgeous as always. Trying to find all 108 stars is still great fun. The voice work is good. The one-on-one duels are the best out of any of the games. The movements of the characters during battle are very fluid. It's also pretty cool that the combo attacks you can do level-up.

I give it a 5/10. There are the makings of a good game here, but it's as if the creators didn't really try that hard. The best of the series remains SII(followed by SI then SIII). I hope V comes along soon.

Only reason for that is because Hugo was the best with Fire magic, Chris with water, Geddoe because he was already the bearer of the True Lightning and because he sucks with fire. Beyond that, I don't really think there was an official path...
Also, the "boy who is way too young to lead an army" is a staple of the Suikoden games. Not that I mind.

[Jude Santos]

This game is extremely mediocre. I've played every game in the Suikoden series, and this is by far the worst. The story is completely forgetable. Character developement is almost nil. The game suffers from horrible deseign as well. The cities are no where near the greatness of SIII(which, in my mind, takes 3rd in the Suikoden series). The spell effects are incredibly lame(even the level 4s, aside from the Punishment Rune). Having your base in a ship was a good idea. Too bad the interior looks dull and boring. And I'd really like to know what idiot deseigned the world map. The ship is slow and controls horribly, random encounters are very frequent(which makes getting from one island to the next a nightmare, until you can teleport), and islands have an invisible barrier that stretches out from them which makes getting to the docks a huge chore. Also, I find the ship battles to be rather boring and extremely easy.

There are some good things about the game that keep it from being horrible, though. The artwork is gorgeous as always. Trying to find all 108 stars is still great fun. The voice work is good. The one-on-one duels are the best out of any of the games. The movements of the characters during battle are very fluid. It's also pretty cool that the combo attacks you can do level-up.

Let me start by saying that I haven't finished the game yet, very close though I believe. I just finished liberating Razril. But anyway, this is all opinion. I personally like IV over III. I do agree with you that the interior of the ship is dull and boring, but it was a great concept, so I think it's not really bad. As for citites, the only one I didn't like was Razril, too...small (I'll elaborate on my overall thoughts after I finish the game let's say 3 days from now). Then again, I don't like any cities in any RPG games after seeing the cities in the Final Fantasy series (primarily VII, VIII and IX). I'd say that so far, I prefer SIV better. Overall, from my fave to least SI & II (both were REALLY good, so I like both equally), IV, and finally III.

As for Suikoden V, well, in three years...wow, I'll be a senior in college by then...:eek:

[Jigen Daisuke]

I see this game as just an introduction to the Island States which is part of the Suikoden world. I haven't gone far enough to warrent a real opinion. I wish they still had the 6 playable characters in battle, but I like the fact that it's fast. I noticed the encounter rate to be very high.

[Chosen Raven]

Finally beat it last night, after searching everywhere for all 108 stars(wasn't able to get them all since some of them are only available at certain times during the story). The ending was alright, though hopefully it'll be better after I get all 108 stars. The credits took forever to end. It wouldn't have been so bad if the music during them were good, but it's just remixes of old Suikoden themes.

Though I consider it inferior to past Suikodens there were some things in this game I loved. The confession room was a great idea. Honestly, given the ability to punish or forgive your team mates is gold. And it's good to see that new game+ modes are a part of the series now(personally, I think all RPGs should have this).

I wish the Rune of Punishment were more powerful, though. It's supposed to be an amazingly powerful True Rune, but upgraded elemental runes are just as powerful(and they don't damage you in any way).

Okay, let's see, how many True Runes have appeared in the Suikoden games so far? According to the art book(which is pretty good by the way) it's twelve. But I count 13. There's Punishment, Soul Eater, the True Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Lightining Runes, Sovreign, Dragon, Sword, Shield, that two headed wolf rune(can't remember the name), and the Gate Rune which is divided in two(so does that make it 2 separate true runes?). I didn't miss any did I?

[Mr. Obsession]

Okay, let's see, how many True Runes have appeared in the Suikoden games so far? According to the art book(which is pretty good by the way) it's twelve. But I count 13. There's Punishment, Soul Eater, the True Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Lightining Runes, Sovreign, Dragon, Sword, Shield, that two headed wolf rune(can't remember the name), and the Gate Rune which is divided in two(so does that make it 2 separate true runes?). I didn't miss any did I?
- Punishment
- Soul Eater
- Rune of Beginning (Sword and Shield aren't true runes, just very unique ones, but when they're combined they form the Rune of Beginning)
- True Fire
- True Wind
- True Lightning
- True Earth
- True Water
- Beast Rune (the wolf one)
- Dragon Rune
- Night Rune (Star Dragon Sword)
- Blue Moon Rune
- Rune of Change (mentioned in old books, hasn't appeared in the games yet)
- Circle Rune (hasn't shown up yet, but mentioned in old books and dialog, Hikusaak's rune)
- Eightfold Rune (Suikoden's creator has stated that Yuber has it, and Konami hasn't disputed it yet, but it hasn't been shown in the games)
- Gate Rune (split in two halves)
- Sovereign Rune (Barbarossa used it at the end of the first game to transform into a multi-headed dragon)


So far I'm enjoying IV, though I'd wager I'm only about halfway through right now. I'll post actual thoughts when I finish. Though I will say the minigames so far have been quite addicting and the sailing between islands is actually kind of fun.

Oh, and is it just me, or is Viki actually a competent magician this time around?

[Chosen Raven]

Dang, you sure know your Suikoden. A few of those I haven't even heard of(of course, it's been over 4 years since I last played SII, so I've probably forgotten alot). I wonder what happens when we run out of True Runes. Do we run out of Suikodens? I hope not.

[Jude Santos]

So I just (finally) finished Suikoden IV. Not that it was hard, I got to the final boss and went on a three month hiatus. Regardless, here's what I think, aka my personal review. Oh, if you haven't beaten it yet, skip to the part after the spoiler tags.

I liked it. I liked it better than S3 at least. There was a lot of things they did wrong in this game. It's a shame, the first half of the game was really strong, but they failed to put some emphasis on the story after the reclaimation (is reclaimation even a word?) of Razril. Pretty much, after that point, they just threw it in at you with no reasons whatsoever. Like they got lazy to put in more dialogue or something. Anyway, what the game could have used more: More emphasis on Gaien and why they totally ignored Razril being occupied, should have had sidequests with the other stars of destiny, Elenor should have been more "brilliant" ala Shu and Mathiu, Troy should have had more screen time, and the sea battles should have been more massive, not just 2 ships against 3 ships or 4 ships against 3 (such as the case with the final engagement). Kooluk is supposed to be dominant here. Anyway, those are the things storywise that could have improved the game. Also, Snowe should have more of a role. He kinda became useless to the story after you get exiled from Razril.

As for the ending...I like it. I'm expecting Elenor's question (that Graham didn't want to answer) concerning Graham had something to do with S3's mystery (when the Silverburg at the end teleported somewhere saying that he was going back to his master...). I expect that should be wrapped up in Suikoden V.

Oh, if I shall give the game a rating...

Story- 6 out of 10
Characters- 7
Graphics- 7
Gameplay- 7
Average- 6.75 out of 10



IN GOOD NEWS, Suikoden V has been rumored to be in development bu Konami and Hudson. Hopefully, we get more information before the end of the year, but of course, we probably won't hear anything about S5 till fall 2006/Early 2007.

[Mr. Obsession]

I liked Suikoden 3, if for no other reason than it actually attempted to develop more SoDs than any other game in the series.

Anyway, since this is a talkback I'll assume that spoilers are expected. If you haven't finished the game there are spoilers below.


Over time I've come to like and appreciate what they were trying to do with the fourth game more. The revamped battle system forces long time players to find new fighting strategies. And the overall plot wasn't that bad, you just had to work harder than in the previous games to uncover everything.

Probably my biggest beef the first time I finished the game was that it didn't feel like a major conflict. And then I realized, it wasn't. The first game was a civil war in one of the more powerful nations in the Suikoden world. The second game was the resolution to a long standing war that ended up drawing in two of the game's world superpowers. The third game was the antagonist' manipulation of the major nation in the world against several smaller allied ones in a three-way conflict in order to change the path he saw humanity and himself headed down. If he had succeeded it would have decimated about 1/3 of the world. And in each game you end up controlling armies that consisted of tens of thousands of solders for the war battles by the end of the game.

The fourth game, by comparison, is a minor conflict. The Island Nations are apathetic whether they work together or not. The City States (2) and the Grassland Clans (3) at least had a history of mutual cooperation and trust in their respective games. Gaien, after one of their military ports is taken over by Koolulk and the governor flees takes no action. Koolulk's participation is half-hearted at best. Their forces consist of one province governor, one military general, one disenfranchised Scarlet Moon noble, a small portion of the military (which the Emperor actually pulls forces out when faced with a larger conflict to the north, thanks to Eleanor’s contacts), and a runic super weapon. Your "army" consists of just the SoD's and enough NPC's to man the ships in combat. The major superpowers of the era (Harmonia and The Scarlet Moon Empire) are, outside of some dialog, virtually uninvolved. And Yuber, who is supposed to be present at all major conflicts in Suikoden history is a no show.

Looking back, I think the early statement that "1 is to 4 as 2 was to 3," or however it went, was pretty accurate. I just hope the fifth game tries to be closer to the Suikoden 2 and 3 mold, since Suikoden 2 is still my favorite game in the series.

[Jude Santos]

I liked Suikoden 3, if for no other reason than it actually attempted to develop more SoDs than any other game in the series.

Anyway, since this is a talkback I'll assume that spoilers are expected. If you haven't finished the game there are spoilers below.


Over time I've come to like and appreciate what they were trying to do with the fourth game more. The revamped battle system forces long time players to find new fighting strategies. And the overall plot wasn't that bad, you just had to work harder than in the previous games to uncover everything.

Probably my biggest beef the first time I finished the game was that it didn't feel like a major conflict. And then I realized, it wasn't. The first game was a civil war in one of the more powerful nations in the Suikoden world. The second game was the resolution to a long standing war that ended up drawing in two of the game's world superpowers. The third game was the antagonist' manipulation of the major nation in the world against several smaller allied ones in a three-way conflict in order to change the path he saw humanity and himself headed down. If he had succeeded it would have decimated about 1/3 of the world. And in each game you end up controlling armies that consisted of tens of thousands of solders for the war battles by the end of the game.

The fourth game, by comparison, is a minor conflict. The Island Nations are apathetic whether they work together or not. The City States (2) and the Grassland Clans (3) at least had a history of mutual cooperation and trust in their respective games. Gaien, after one of their military ports is taken over by Koolulk and the governor flees takes no action. Koolulk's participation is half-hearted at best. Their forces consist of one province governor, one military general, one disenfranchised Scarlet Moon noble, a small portion of the military (which the Emperor actually pulls forces out when faced with a larger conflict to the north, thanks to Eleanor’s contacts), and a runic super weapon. Your "army" consists of just the SoD's and enough NPC's to man the ships in combat. The major superpowers of the era (Harmonia and The Scarlet Moon Empire) are, outside of some dialog, virtually uninvolved. And Yuber, who is supposed to be present at all major conflicts in Suikoden history is a no show.

Looking back, I think the early statement that "1 is to 4 as 2 was to 3," or however it went, was pretty accurate. I just hope the fifth game tries to be closer to the Suikoden 2 and 3 mold, since Suikoden 2 is still my favorite game in the series.
As previously stated, there will be spoilers, so I'm not going to bother with spoiler tags.

Anyway,I too, just realized that the "war" in IV isn't as big, or not at all big compared to the other games. As for the statement "1 is to 4 as 2 was to 3," I've never heard it before, but it's actually accurate. 4, in a lot of aspects, reminded me of the 1st game.

And as for continuing my recurring statements of "I hate S3", well, the only real part I liked about S3 was the final extra where you get to play as Luc. I also like the fact that the whole storyline for 3 had a little intro on one of the battles in S2 where Sasarai "had a cup of coffee" in terms of appearance.

Anyway, I would sell my soul to the devil to get a S1 or 2 remake, or actually, a port to the psp. As for V, I can only wonder what Hudson is involved with. Can anyone here tell me what games they have done besides the Bomberman series?

[Mr. Obsession]

Can anyone here tell me what games they have done besides the Bomberman series?In Japan? I believe they've released some obscure RPGs that never made it over here. I did find a link to Konami’s website on Hudson Soft’s English site. Maybe Konami has some controlling stake in Hudson?

[Jude Santos]

As you guys might have heard, the new game is called Rhapsodia, aka Suikoden Tactics. Konami patented the name in the US so it's pretty much a lock for US release (hopefully.) It takes place in the SIV world, so hopefully, they answer some questions that all that are all speculative (what in the world was Elenor talking about in the end, just who exactly is that woman in the ending and in the intro sequence, and more like stuff between Kika and Brando etc etc.) It has new characters, but there's a bunch of characters from SIV making appearances.