Why don't we have more Fantasy cartoons?

[Duke Psychology]

when it comes to American animation, there are two types: Comedy and Action. Comedy is usually divided into to two subcategories: wacky cartoon hijinks or humurous slice-of-life shows.

then comes Action. Action cartoons have two subcategories too: Superhero or Sci-Fi.

but where's the Fantasy?

i haven't seen a lot of cartoons with a fantasy setting. most comedy cartoons rely on contemporary settings. the only current comedy cartoon that uses fantasy elements that immediately comes to mind is the Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. all the other current comedy cartoons use wacky hijinks in a contemporary setting (Ed, Edd, 'n' Eddy), slice-of-life realistic setting (All Grown Up), or a science fiction setting (Atomic Betty). i can gurantee that every comedy cartoon out right now fits in one of those three settings. but a fantasy setting or at least involve fantasy elements? like i said, i can only come up with Billy and Mandy. if there are others, i'd like to know.

then there are the action cartoons which would get more out of fantasy than comedy, but they don't use it for some reason. most action cartoons are about superheroes or science fiction. and most superheroes go on sci-fi adventures. Justice League/Unlimited and Teen Titans dabble in magic every now and then, but for the most part, their stories are inspired by science fiction. TMNT2K3 is also based on sci-fi what with the aliens and alternate dimensions they encounter. X-Men/Evolution and Spiderman? Sci-fi. No magic or fantasy to be seen. most action cartoons have sci-fi based plots. very few use fantasy as it's base.

so why is that? why doesn't fantasy show up more often? why can't a hero have his/her powers gained by a magical influence rather than a scientific one? instead of fighting aliens, crazies exposed to some mutagen or evil men using a scientific invention for evil, why can't they fight dragons, sorcerors, or supernatural monsters?

is Fantasy just not popular with kids? i wouldn't think so, given the popularity of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.

why isn't there more Fantasy in cartoons? and what cartoons have had fantasy elements and were at least semi-sucessful?

[Samurai]

so why is that? why doesn't fantasy show up more often? why can't a hero have his/her powers gained by a magical influence rather than a scientific one? instead of fighting aliens, crazies exposed to some mutagen or evil men using a scientific invention for evil, why can't they fight dragons, sorcerors, or supernatural monsters?

is Fantasy just not popular with kids? i wouldn't think so, given the popularity of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.

why isn't there more Fantasy in cartoons? and what cartoons have had fantasy elements and were at least semi-sucessful?Well the most recent was probably the new He-Man show, which definitely was a fantasy show, although it did have some Sci-Fi elements. That Winx Club show or W.I.T.C.H. have some fantasy elements (although it is in contemporary settings, not necessarily in a "far, far away land a long time ago"). There's also that Dave the Barbarian show on Disney Channel, although I don't know if it's necessarily fantasy since I haven't seen much of it (and for good reason too).

But there's been plenty of successful Fantasy shows in the past (most obvious one being Dungeons & Dragons). Don't know why it's not very popular now. Maybe because the creators are more influenced by superheroes and Sci-Fi. But with the success of Harry Potter or LoTR, I wouldn't be surprised to see more Fantasy-type shows being created. As they say, people follow whatever's hot at the moment.

[Peter Paltridge]

Oh, they're made more often than that. Usually however when a fantasy show comes along these days it's made for women exclusively (Winx Club, W.I.T.C.H, the crummy Cardcaptor Sakura dub, Princess Gueneviere). Never mind that fantasy is hot this decade and has the potential for lots of action, we get unicorns and the "power of friendship" and stuff.

[Samurai]

Oh, they're made more often than that. Usually however when a fantasy show comes along these days it's made for women exclusively (Winx Club, W.I.T.C.H, the crummy Cardcaptor Sakura dub, Princess Gueneviere). Never mind that fantasy is hot this decade and has the potential for lots of action, we get unicorns and the "power of friendship" and stuff.You know what, I've wondered about that myself. I think it's the whole stereotype about how "girls want to be princesses and wait for some knight in shining armor." But to be honest, guys themselves don't necessarily want to be knights. Knight's are kinda lame. They'd rather be ninja's, or commando's, or superheroes with powers. And again, most cartoons are made for boys. Then again, many people like D&D and read fantasy books. So perhaps fantasy is just experiencing a down-turn right now (at least in cartoons).

[I.R Joey]

That's a very good question, personally I'm more of a Sci-fi fan then fantasy but let me see here...

He-man 2002: In my opinion a show that had alot more potential than it used.
W.I.N.X: Didn't watch it but heard some good things.
Danny Phantom?: It has ghosts not sure if that counts.
W.I.T.C.H: Coming soon.

And that's pretty much all I can think of. Maybe some of the religous anger about Harry Potter has detered people in cartoon land? Just a thought.

[Superperson]

Not sure why fantasy sn't used very often in cartoons these days...but if one is going to do a fantasy cartoon do it well, because when fantasy is done bad, its really bad (He-Man, ok not that bad but they could have did alot better with it) that goes for Sci-Fi too. And it seemes that not too many people are interested in making a fantasy like show. Well actually Avatar is coming out, so you got your wish right there.

[Michael24]

How about THE PIRATES OF DARKWATER? I don't remember a lot of sci-fi stuff in that. Sure, it had action, but I remember it being mostly a fantasy world setting with some magic and such.

[MultiMEDEA]

I just don't know, and that's very frustrating.:( American audiences shouldn't have to always turn to anime for a fantasy fix. There's way too much home-grown talent that's not being seen or heard. I almost want to blame it on the ingrained belief that toons are only 22 minute kiddie toy commercials. But that would be too simplistic. Especially when there are so many other avenues and media for fantasy animation than commercial tv. The direct-to-dvd market is exploding with tons of grown-up buyers with lots of discretionary income. In the US the product usually follows the money.

And there are so many fantasy works that cry out for an animation treatment. They shouldn't have to moulder on the shelves waiting for a Peter Jackson to come rescue them...

The Dragonriders of Pern
The Prydain Chronicles (ignore Disney's 'Black Cauldron)
The Belgariad and The Mallorean
Earthsea
Dune
Raymond Feist's Kyrondor series
Elfquest
The Myth series by Robert Asprin
The Dark Tower series
Gordon Dic*son's Dragon and the George series

So many others!:crying:

[GregX]

Tell me about it, with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter as popular as they are, it could work.

Give us "Gargoyles: The Dark Ages" or "Pendragon".

Back in the way early 90s there was a Conan animated series no one's ever heard of which was pretty cool. Not great, but fun.

[Crash]

Blame Sputnik.

We're a forward looking society. We have been ever since the cowboy genre died. We'd rather look at things as they are now or in the near future (ever notice how many contempory shows always have substantially more advanced tech?). Looking back to the past just isn't as interesting. When the show takes place in a different world, we have a much easier time adapting to a sci-fi world (which usually are based on current social attitudes/institutions) than we do to a new fantasy world (which is often based on feudal attitudes.)

Fantasy makes for good movies, but those are mostly once-and-done stories. In the serial mass market--tv--its been sci-fi that dominates the non-contemporary niches. It has ever since Star Trek came out. And whenever the line is blurred between sci-fi and fantasy (Star Wars) we're just conditioned to think of it as sci-fi by default.


I almost want to blame it on the ingrained belief that toons are only 22 minute kiddie toy commercials. But that would be too simplisticMaybe that's how we could get a good fantasy series. Tie it into a toy line. Like a series of knight action figures. With heraldry and weapons and all that. Throw in some dragon and ogre figures, and some toy magic swords, and it just might work.

Or a Lego-Castle based series. Based on all the old castle sets. Well, I can dream....

[Ickis]

My opinion,its because creating a fantasy cartoon takes a lot of time for the average cartoonist to think of,and many just don't have that time.:D What you must do is think about your fantasy land alot than make sure it dosen't copy someone else's work.I can probably think of a fantasy cartoon in an hour but it would stink.:D

[MonkeyFunk]

They'll be some coming from Britain soon - the new Mosnter in my Pocket cartoon, and something about magicians from Cosgrove Hall (I think it's just called "Mystics").

There've been quite a few fantasy cartoons in the past - Mighty Max, Gargoyles, Mgihty Hercules (that's going quite far back), not to mention the countless fairy tale movies from Disney and other studios. Tehy seem to have thinned out somewhat, though.

[Cliff24275]

They'll be some coming from Britain soon - the new Mosnter in my Pocket cartoon, and something about magicians from Cosgrove Hall (I think it's just called "Mystics").

There've been quite a few fantasy cartoons in the past - Mighty Max, Gargoyles, Mgihty Hercules (that's going quite far back), not to mention the countless fairy tale movies from Disney and other studios. Tehy seem to have thinned out somewhat, though.Dude, Mighty Max was awesome. They should bring back that series.
I would also like to see some new fantasy cartoons.

[Fone Bone]

Gargoyles encompassed MANY genres but the most prevelant was fantasy.

And if you look at JL/JLU there are MANY more magic stories than you give them credit for. There is Paradise Lost, A Knight in Shadows, The Terror Beyond, and Eclipsed (I'm sorry this counts).

JLU has an even higher magic quotient. Kids Stuff, This Little Piggy, The Greatest Story Never Told, Hawk and Dove, and Wake the Dead all had A LOT of magic in them. That's five out of thirteen episodes during the first season.

[Planeteer]

Back in the way early 90s there was a Conan animated series no one's ever heard of which was pretty cool. Not great, but fun.

Conan the Adventurer? Yeah, I saw that. Great stuff (even though being a kid's show it wasn't as great in the scantily-clad women department).

[Chris Wood]

If by fantasy you mean Lord of the Rings, Berserk, He-Man, etc. then I would definitely like to see more series like that.

If you mean Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, etc., then I think there are way too many series like that already.

[Alph]

What about the Alladin series from Disney? That was entirely fantasy based.

[Johnny Cakes]

Samurai Jack had a lot of fantasy elements. Sure, he mostly fought robots but there were dragons, magic weopons, and an evil demon.

[Kurtman]

I think we need more furry cartoons ever since Sonic The Hedgehog and Road Rovers were cancelled. All the anime we have these days is human,human and human. Why not have a couple furry animes? As for fantasy,i'm okay with that but not exactly stark raving wild. Just my opinion.

[Artimus Gigan]

I think we need more furry cartoons ever since Sonic The Hedgehog and Road Rovers were cancelled. All the anime we have these days is human,human and human. Why not have a couple furry animes? As for fantasy,i'm okay with that but not exactly stark raving wild. Just my opinion.The hell? Those weren't furry cartoons.
I mean talking animals has been a character archtype for ages.

Though honestly I wouln't mind seeing Dragon's Lair get an animated series...either that or Riftwar....which has like 000000000% chance of probability because probably as many people are familiar with it as they are with Belgarath.

[Wesyeed]

Dragon's Lair was a cartoon in the 80s, but an updated version would be nice.

And I agree. He-Man wasn't Legendary enough. We need some modern-day mythic tale, that explores different genres like pure fantasy or pure sci-fi or a mixing of the two, like Samurai. Hmm.. We need.. like a Star Wars TAS or something.

[RayChuang]

Blame Sputnik.

We're a forward looking society. We have been ever since the cowboy genre died. We'd rather look at things as they are now or in the near future (ever notice how many contempory shows always have substantially more advanced tech?). Looking back to the past just isn't as interesting. When the show takes place in a different world, we have a much easier time adapting to a sci-fi world (which usually are based on current social attitudes/institutions) than we do to a new fantasy world (which is often based on feudal attitudes.)

Fantasy makes for good movies, but those are mostly once-and-done stories. In the serial mass market--tv--its been sci-fi that dominates the non-contemporary niches. It has ever since Star Trek came out. And whenever the line is blurred between sci-fi and fantasy (Star Wars) we're just conditioned to think of it as sci-fi by default.
Oh, so, so true! I think the cusp of the whole reason why we don't see more "high fantasy" cartoons is the TV series Star Trek, which conditioned us to take a look at a more technological future, and the first Star Wars movie in 1977, which essentially put elements of high fantasy on top of a highly technological universe. Because we like to see our imagined worlds in a technological sense, that's why true fantasy as interpreted by TV and movies don't do so well on average.

The Lord of the Rings is pretty much an extreme exception, mostly because J.R.R. Tolkien built up the background material for this work so brilliantly that in the right hands (aka. Peter Jackson) we definitely enjoy the movie versions. Which does explain why TSR (before they got bought out by Wizards of the Coast in 1997) was never able to convince anyone in Hollywood to do movie or TV series based on the Dragonlance books.

However, I would like to see a good producer/director do movie versions of the first three Dragonriders of Pern books (Dragonflight, Dragonquest, and The White Dragon), now that CGI technology has advanced enough to do a truly realistic-looking dragon pretty cheaply. :cool:

[Duke Psychology]

Ok, i think i see why Sci-Fi is favored more than Fantasy in cartoons. a lot of action cartoons for boys have toylines and Sci-Fi lends itself to a toyline easier than Fantasy does, i guess. with Fantasy you just have figures of heroes and villains. with Sci-Fi you have heroes and villains along with the crazy-cool sci-fi gadgets, cars, and machines they use. lots of toy potential.


That's a very good question, personally I'm more of a Sci-fi fan then fantasy but let me see here...

He-man 2002: In my opinion a show that had alot more potential than it used.
W.I.N.X: Didn't watch it but heard some good things.
Danny Phantom?: It has ghosts not sure if that counts.
W.I.T.C.H: Coming soon. He-Man2K2 would have been a great fantasy series. it had all the makings of one. but for the toyline's sake, they added quite a few sci-fi inspired gadgets and stuff.

Danny Phantom...don't know what to call that. It features ghosts which is supernatural, but they have lots of sci-fi stuff used to capture and detect them.

Winx i never watched, so i can't say and W.I.T.C.H looks like it's pretty fantasy-inspired so we'll see.


How about THE PIRATES OF DARKWATER? I don't remember a lot of sci-fi stuff in that. Sure, it had action, but I remember it being mostly a fantasy world setting with some magic and such.i don't remember that one too well. maybe i'll check it out on Boomerang.


Gargoyles encompassed MANY genres but the most prevelant was fantasy.

And if you look at JL/JLU there are MANY more magic stories than you give them credit for. There is Paradise Lost, A Knight in Shadows, The Terror Beyond, and Eclipsed (I'm sorry this counts).

JLU has an even higher magic quotient. Kids Stuff, This Little Piggy, The Greatest Story Never Told, Hawk and Dove, and Wake the Dead all had A LOT of magic in them. That's five out of thirteen episodes during the first season.Gargoyles was fantasy at its core. but i remember lots of sci-fi stuff in it as well (robots, cloning, etc.). so i can't call it straight fantasy. and yeah, JL/U has more magic stories than i implied. Sci-Fi still dominates them though.


Samurai Jack had a lot of fantasy elements. Sure, he mostly fought robots but there were dragons, magic weopons, and an evil demon.Samurai Jack could have made a great fantasy series...but Genndy threw him into the future which made it take a sci-fi turn. not a bad thing, still a good show, but i would've liked it to be a bit more different from other toons that use sci-fi (though it still was quite different).

as for toons mentioned, thanks for reminding me of them.


Blame Sputnik.

We're a forward looking society. We have been ever since the cowboy genre died. We'd rather look at things as they are now or in the near future (ever notice how many contempory shows always have substantially more advanced tech?). Looking back to the past just isn't as interesting. When the show takes place in a different world, we have a much easier time adapting to a sci-fi world (which usually are based on current social attitudes/institutions) than we do to a new fantasy world (which is often based on feudal attitudes.)
well a fantasy series doesn't have to take place in a "far away world based on feudal European attitudes." it could still be in a contemporary saying. just have the plots based on fantasy elements rather than sci-fi elements. like have the hero face a mafia run by wizards or something. i dunno, i'm not a writer.:sweat: Fantasy is more versatile than you think.

truth be told, i am more into Sci-Fi than Fantasy. it's just that i see fantasy's success in books, movies, and video games and just want to know why it's not translating into animated televison.

[Baltofan]

Meredith Ann Pierce´s Firebringer Trilogy, or The Longest Journey (PC game) as animated TV shows.

[Hordesman]

The fantasy that usually gets mass-media attention, particularly from kids, tends to have some Earth factor: Medieval Gargoyles reawakened in late 20th century NYC, kid from modern world going to a fantasy realm (Wizard of Oz, Flash Gordon, Mighty Max, Digimon, Fushigi Yugi, Winx, WITCH, etc.), modern kid as reincarnation of Cuculagan or Moon Princess or whatnot. Even the original He-Man had that tie-in with his mom being from Earth.

Part of it is that all-out fantasy should really be devoid of Earth context. I mean, I've always thought He-Man names were like those in Lord of the Rings, translations that just happened to be missing any sense of subtlety. Fantasy realms really shouldn't always have social structures recognizable to its viewers, or neccessarily medieval ones. It's kind of interesting going through old Oz books where the monarchy is female-dominated and goods are only exchanged through trading.

[Artimus Gigan]

However, I would like to see a good producer/director do movie versions of the first three Dragonriders of Pern books (Dragonflight, Dragonquest, and The White Dragon), now that CGI technology has advanced enough to do a truly realistic-looking dragon pretty cheaply. :cool:There were a few episodes of a Dragonriders of pern TV series produced with CG dragons and all, however the WB cut it because it was too expensive

[MonkeyFunk]

Ok, i think i see why Sci-Fi is favored more than Fantasy in cartoons. a lot of action cartoons for boys have toylines and Sci-Fi lends itself to a toyline easier than Fantasy does, i guess. with Fantasy you just have figures of heroes and villains. with Sci-Fi you have heroes and villains along with the crazy-cool sci-fi gadgets, cars, and machines they use. lots of toy potential.

And there are some rather, erm, odd viewpoints on fantasy cartoons. When I went to another board and posted a rundown of a storyline for a webcomic derived largely from "magical girl" tradition, there was one guy who asked "you have a chick with powers, so is it a superhero comic? She fights demon,s so is it a fantasy comic?", and spent the rest of the discussion foaming at the mouth and raving on about how you can't have Superman fighting a vampire, and how my idea was "complete crap" which readers "wouldn't accept".

So, yeah.

[Donald Duck 12]

then comes Action. Action cartoons have two subcategories too: Superhero or Sci-Fi.

Superhero does not get it's own category, sadly, it too is too neglected. There really aren't too many action cartoons from the homeland to begin with, anime is too profitable. And fantasy isn't just magic, it is basically supernatural without any science. And I wouldn't mind seeing more non-magic fantasies.

[Hordesman]

"Fantasy" tends to refer to anything with magic, quasi-medieval settings and beasts, etc. Really, most of what is called "Science Fiction" has a minimal to non-existent depiction of real science- often replacing something like the magical sword Excalibur with the equally mysterious but more technological-looking lightsaber.

[Artimus Gigan]

Oh I forgot, twelve Kingdoms is essentialy hard fantasy and it's animated. It's not an old series and is still relatively new and is based on the books, mediablasters released 9 out of the 10 volumes of the series on DVD...

[MonkeyFunk]

There really aren't too many action cartoons from the homeland to begin with
and dramatic animation is really hard to coe by :sad:

[Sunset Girl]

The medeival fantasy genre was a big thing in the eighties; I'm sure that a comback will soon be warranted. Maybe if the live-action "Last Unicorn" is a success, people will look back to the animated version and realize the pontential of adding to the genre.

I loved the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon as a kid. I haven't seen any of it since it's original airing, but I can remember how the characters were trapped in the fantasy setting and kept trying to find a way home.

It would be kinda fun to get trapped in a setting like that. ;)

[song cycle]

Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter make boatloads of cash and movie and television executives cannot put two and two together and figure out that MAYBE there is a certain appeal to fantasy settings that has the potential for mainstream success.

At least Dob Bluth is trying to make a Dragon's Lair movie; after seeing Dragon's Lair II from beginning to end for the first time a few months ago I believe the movie COULD be really good.

[Terrence Briggs]

I think we need more furry cartoons ever since Sonic The Hedgehog and Road Rovers were cancelled. All the anime we have these days is human,human and human. Why not have a couple furry animes? As for fantasy,i'm okay with that but not exactly stark raving wild. Just my opinion.
I see Sonic X on the Foxbox/4KidsTV.

Pokemon and Digimon are about human-furry interaction.

Jetix has Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go!

Spongebob isn't all furry, but at least it has Sandy, the scuba-diving squirrel.

Kirby isn't all furry, but it ain't all human, either. How about fluffy or puffy?

Disney and Nick till have some furry shows left, ne?

-----------------------------
On the fantasy side, cripes! Are we not counting Winx, WITCH, Xiaolin Showdown, and Yugioh?

But if you want MIDEVAL FANTASY, you're screwed. Gargoyles is it. Dark Water is pretty good, and still airs on Boomerang if you get that. Dragon Booster might fit the bill, but that rots, too. Prince Valiant isn't airing anywhere I can find it.

And for the record, both Conan shows stunk. So did King Arthur and the Knights of Justice, only more. Sigfried & Roy was busy but bollocks.

[Samurai]

Samurai Jack could have made a great fantasy series...but Genndy threw him into the future which made it take a sci-fi turn. not a bad thing, still a good show, but i would've liked it to be a bit more different from other toons that use sci-fi (though it still was quite different).
The reason why Genndy gave it a sci-fi twist is I remember he said that he needed something for Samurai Jack to kill without pushing the censors. For instance, Samurai Jack could kill as many robots as he wanted to because technically they're not "alive" like humans or animals.


Disney and Nick till have some furry shows left, ne?
Yeah, Disney and Nick are into the beastiality, uh, I mean beastial shows :p

[tucsoncoyote]

It's amazing that everyone has said a lot about fantasy in this thread.. but they keep missing one fantasy show that was based back in the 1980's and in fact had a good following.. and it's hard to believe that this was based off a popular Role Playing game..Dungeons and Dragons...

That's right you heard me.. Dungeons and Dragons..

CBS actually (Before they were overtaken by Viacom/MTV/Nickelodeon/Nick Kids) actually had this rather interesting series which dealt with Magic, Magic Weapons, and of course the Evil baddie or two.. Yet everyone one spouts about how Great Sailor Moon or how great Lord of the Rings are..

Yet each and Every saturday on CBS that it was on (and Not being pre-empted for some football game!) I and a few of my friends enjoyed watching this show..and for good reason.. because it had the Fantasy written all over it..

(I mean six kids (from earth (Hence the Earth-tie In Theory) sucked into a fantasy world of Swords and Soccery.. and in fact the series really never did have the kids return home.. (They're still stuck in that Dimension and probably are in their mid 30's to 40's by now.. and some of the stuff was rather intriguing..(Presto the Magician, was rather a fun character to watch as he had the "Harry Potter Look" yet was a bit of a Bumbler.. Sheila the Thief of course was as theives go not to roguish, and Hank (The Leader of the Group as the Ranger) definitely had some potential, but he also showed that he had weaknesses as well..

Of course Seeing that Dungeon Master and Vengar were related.. that was a real shock..

but I think that if you really want to take a step back and look at a good fantasy show, you have to look at this one..(After all it sets the standards for other shows..

:coyote:

[Terrence Briggs]

The reason why Genndy gave it a sci-fi twist is I remember he said that he needed something for Samurai Jack to kill without pushing the censors. For instance, Samurai Jack could kill as many robots as he wanted to because technically they're not "alive" like humans or animals.
Why not have him fight "magical beings" or somesuch. SamJack could slice 'em to his hearts content, and the animators could ahve fun pretending that the ethereal excretions are blood.