Gundam ZZ

[Jarmyn]

Of all the Gundam series, the most hated of them all is Gundam ZZ the sequl to Zeta Gundam. It's even more hated by Gundam fans then Wing. Why is it so hated?

[Lord Dalek]

Two words: kiddie show.

The only good thing about ZZ is Anime Ja Nai and Silent Voice.

[Beat]

Tomino, after a serious bender, thought it would be a good idea to make the direct sequel to the powerful, dramatic Zeta Gundam...

A traditional anime comedy.:sweat:

The episodes are nonsensical, characters that were serious threats are reduced to pure jokes, and the whole thing is more remeniscent of a crappy Masson Ikkou in space. Plus, the ZZ Gundam itself has more firepower than Wing Zero. (Although during the second half, this is retconned by the thing having a very limited operation time)

Oh, and it bought us Moon Moon, hands down the worst thing to ever come out of Tomino's brain.

[Keiichi]

Well he had good intentions. He felt Zeta was too dark and depressing so he tried to liven things up. But since it did'nt go over well he switched gears midway and later on made the super dark and depressing Victory Gundam.

[Jarmyn]

I think that ZZ gets a bum rap . I liked it. After the depressing end of Zeta, it's was time for a change and it's good to see that Tomino has a sense of humor. Heck, I thought it was fuuny. Plus we got lots of cool loooking new Zeon mobile suits like the Hamma Hamma, the Zssa, the Bawoo, the Kapool, the R-Jarja, the Zaku III, the Ga-Zowm, the Geymark, the Galluss-J, the Doven Wolf and the Quin Mantha.

[Jarmyn]

Tomino, after a serious bender, thought it would be a good idea to make the direct sequel to the powerful, dramatic Zeta Gundam...

A traditional anime comedy.:sweat:

The episodes are nonsensical, characters that were serious threats are reduced to pure jokes, and the whole thing is more remeniscent of a crappy Masson Ikkou in space. Plus, the ZZ Gundam itself has more firepower than Wing Zero. (Although during the second half, this is retconned by the thing having a very limited operation time)

Oh, and it bought us Moon Moon, hands down the worst thing to ever come out of Tomino's brain. Well it was better than G Gundam. ZZ was funny but G was just stupid.

[Beat]

Well he had good intentions. He felt Zeta was too dark and depressing so he tried to liven things up.
But there was one problem.

ZETA RULED.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Jarmyn]

But there was one problem.

ZETA RULED.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.But Zeta got too dark and depressing.

[Keiichi]

And thats what the majority of the fans want.

[Lord Dalek]

And thats what the majority of the fans want.Yeah, that's why ZZ sticks out like a sore thumb.

You start off with a sombre "Us vs. Them"-show. Continue with an even bleaker "Them Vs. Us and we're the bad guys"-show. And finaly boil down with a conflict of ideals between two men disguised as a struggle over genocide. The "silly show where the villains defeat themselves" just doesn't fit.

[Jarmyn]

Yeah, that's why ZZ sticks out like a sore thumb.

You start off with a sombre "Us vs. Them"-show. Continue with an even bleaker "Them Vs. Us and we're the bad guys"-show. And finaly boil down with a conflict of ideals between two men disguised as a struggle over genocide. The "silly show where the villains defeat themselves" just doesn't fit. And how did the Axis Zeon organization defeat itself becuse I thought it was the power of the ZZ Gundam defeated them?

[GWOtaku]

Of all the Gundam series, the most hated of them all is Gundam ZZ the sequl to Zeta Gundam. It's even more hated by Gundam fans then Wing. Why is it so hated? Even more hated by hardcore UC fans, you mean. I daresay most fans don't hate Wing, so to say ZZ's hated more than Wing doesn't say much.

I knew ZZ was light, but I didn't know it was supposedly THAT light as people here are saying. If the first half of the series really is actually comedic, then its definitely the worst Gundam show no matter how good the second half is. Even G Gundam sort of took itself seriously. Still, I hope its what we get in the states next so I can see how the Zeta plotline concludes and we have all the continuity through CCA. Besides, maybe the second half makes up for the lackluster first half--wouldn't be the first time.

[Keiichi]

Really though I think what made ZZ so bad though was'nt the light hearted atmosphere at the begining but rather terrible, terrible writing. For the first 6 eps nothing at all happend to move the plot. It also had characters from Zeta who were shells of thier former selves (Yazan Gable). These elements left a bad taste in the mouths of many fans.

[rubberchicken]

From what I've heard, Tomino didn't actually do the first half. Then he stepped in to get the series back on track for Char's Counterattack. The result was that the series went from light and fluffy back to blood and death again. The second half is actually supposed to be worth watching.

But as I've said, Yazan gets the shaft.

Ideally, Bandai would do either a total remake or a movie trilogy of ZZ, to turn it back into a "good" Gundam series. Not sure what its prospects are, though.

[rubberchicken]

I haven't seen ZZ, but I think it's still supposed to be BETTER than Wing, if only marginally.

[Jarmyn]

Didn't anyone find the jokes funny at all?

[rubberchicken]

Didn't anyone find the jokes funny at all?

Gundam fans didn't want ZZ for jokes, they wanted it as a worthy sequel to Zeta.

Of course, if ZZ comes out stateside I'll probably buy it. I guess I AM a slave to the Bandai marketing demons... :sad:

[.Automatisch]

Yea, I believe Tomino didn't write the first half. Anyways, I'd just like to get all the UC we can over here. The more, the better, IMO.

[Neo-Era]

From what I've heard, Tomino didn't actually do the first half. Then he stepped in to get the series back on track for Char's Counterattack.

People parrot this a lot but I've never seen anyone provide evidence for it. The comedic style in the first half didn't seem like it'd be out of place to me in other Tomino shows like Xabungle. There's some noticeable Tominoisms in that section of the show, too. In the style he's known for, the Neo Zeon aren't shown as easy villains. They go out of their way to have scenes where Neo Zeon grunts are mourning over fallen comrades and such. One of Tomino's pen names, Minoru Yokitani, is also credited for doing storyboards throughout the show. And I've never seen anyone but Tomino credited for directing ZZ on Japanese sites.

[Beat]

Didn't anyone find the jokes funny at all?
If Gundam fans want jokes, they'll watch the SD Gundam shorts. Leave the main drama alone.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

ZZ Gundam is mostly a disappointment to those who consider all the UC Gundam series as connected--thus, expectations of the *tone* of all these shows to remain the same from MSG-Z-ZZ are high. There are however, some who consider the shows as stand-alone affairs and that is how to best enjoy ZZ Gundam, in my opinion. If, for example, you wanted the continuation of Camille's story, don't look for ZZ to provide it--you'll DEFINITELY be disappointed. Just consider the book closed on that character at the end of Z.

And forget the fact that some of the characters crossover from Z to ZZ. They are just similar in name and face only. :p

[rubberchicken]

ZZ Gundam is mostly a disappointment to those who consider all the UC Gundam series as connected--thus, expectations of the *tone* of all these shows to remain the same from MSG-Z-ZZ are high. There are however, some who consider the shows as stand-alone affairs and that is how to best enjoy ZZ Gundam, in my opinion. If, for example, you wanted the continuation of Camille's story, don't look for ZZ to provide it--you'll DEFINITELY be disappointed. Just consider the book closed on that character at the end of Z.

And forget the fact that some of the characters crossover from Z to ZZ. They are just similar in name and face only. :p

And the fact that ZZ picks up at almost the exact moment that Zeta ends...

[Cheesecake]

The problem with ZZ Gundam is the same problem Doctor who faced in 1986 (its spooky that the time they were made is the same?!) A lot of people criticised Zeta for being too serious, adult and depressing so the higher ups thought it was better to move into kids entertainment and be campin the hope of being more upbeat and marketable.

Like Dr WHo the idea was terrible and ended up being an embrassment to both casual viewers and long-time fans, i've seen all of ZZ Gundam and the first part of the story is just a joke compared to Zeta Gundam, it was produced in the style of a childs pantomine and the "humour" was childish and limited, mostly consisted of unbeleivable pratfalls and military personell acting like team rocket.

Actually i'd describe the first 17 episodes of ZZ Gundam as "Pokemon in space" the main cast consists of a bunch of 12 year olds who somehow become pilots on the aghama ( Why Bright would employ them is mind boggling, he had some lame excuse like " i think they might be new types, the fact that Judau Ashta was orginally a really bad pilot makes Brights reckoning just silly at the least.) The plot is ridocolous, A neo zeon ship turns up for a convuluted reason and each week trys to desroy the zeta gundam with a single mobile suit. the aghama stays in port for 8 episodes! And each week basically a comical "bad guy" would choose to challenge the zeta gundam ,Judau and his friends would try to steal the zeta gundam for the comical reason of "selling it" and Judau would appeal to his " good guy side" and fight of the enemy of the week in a power rangerrs style duel. The neo zeon guy would say " I'll get you next time" Judau and his friends would leave (for the sake of honour?) and promise to come back and steal the zeta gundam next weelk and the same story would repeat itself. ( why oh why The Aghama crew didnt arrest or just shoot Judau is just beyond rational sense, but this series is just so camp and stupid it doesnt matter)

There was serious character degeneration aswell, Neo Zeon were porceived as a fascist and cunning military force in Zeta Gundam, in ZZ there turned into a group of bumbling incompetents complete with pratfalls and sichophantic rants. ( "i promised the beatiful haman i would not fail! "..yuck)
Yazan quikly turns into dick Dastardly and each episode he appears wearing Tom Bakers hat and tries to do something incomprehenisble (pole vault onto inferior mobile suits and steal mopeds) and each episode he'd meet some comical undignified failure ( falling into swers and getting covered in scrapyard junk to name a few)..and to rub salt into the wound he died trying to parahcute a thousand metres with his jacket! ( worst comical death since the Joker tripped in a puddle of water!). Bright is turned from a capable Captain into a unrespected geography teacher ( complete with chickens jumping on his head and the kids saying he's a useless middle aged man who should lie down and retire...whatever happened to the Captain who smacked Amuro aorund for being a wuss? here Bright has no power, no dignity and no respect).

The incidental muisc is now 80% "Comical scores" which sound too silly to use for The Laurel and Hardy cartoon let alone a sci-fi drama.

The Mobile suit action is now more silly than power rangers compelte with the Zeta Gundam using kung fu and Zakus scratching there backsides. The Zeta Gundam itself is stripped of all its dignity when its head is replaced with a Zakus creating the monstrosity which is " The Zeta-zaku".

And if you thought Shinta and Kumu were a bad idea in Zeta Gunda you should see there antics in ZZ, there camper than a row of tents at Butlins.

If this wasnt all bad enough were treated to The "Moon-moon" saga which consists of The Aghama finding a colony run by aztec space hippies who dont use technology want to use the Aghama to spread their religion across the universe..they also beleive mobile suits are giant gods and they pray to the ZZ....( even Dr Who and Star Trek never got this ridicolous!)

When you compare this series to what Gundam used to be like you cant help but weep at how camp and farsical zz is. The episode where the Aghama is assaulted by a neo zeon squadron is terrible, " Dont use your guns! we want to take the Aghama with our own strength! we are the honourable knights of Neo zeon, Banzai!" we then get treated to the most slapstick "battle" ever complete with neo zeons troops being pushed back with chickens, Sink plungers and brooms.

the basic line is this should have happend to a serious sci-fil war drama like Gundam, and the comedy isnt funny 95% of the time, just embarassing and silly. This style of production killed off Dr Who and nearly killed off Gundam, thank god Tomino stepped in to rewrite the last part of ZZ and made it reasonably entertaining. ( You can Tell Tomino took over aorund episode 17 because people start dying and the war is taken seriously, also all the "comical" neo zeon characters are killed off and replaced with more serious villains.)

Interesting note about ZZ is the villain Mashymyre...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Cheesecakus/Piccie.bmp

[HellCat]

Well it was better than G Gundam. ZZ was funny but G was just stupid.
...Great. Best way to defend a show is by making another show your whipping boy :rolleyes: How about actually providing reasons and not just assuming everyone will go "LOL yeah!!!1" ?

[Lord Dalek]

The problem with ZZ Gundam is the same problem Doctor who faced in 1986 (its spooky that the time they were made is the same?!) A lot of people criticised Zeta for being too serious, adult and depressing so the higher ups thought it was better to move into kids entertainment and be campin the hope of being more upbeat and marketable.

Like Dr WHo the idea was terrible and ended up being an embrassment to both casual viewers and long-time fans, i've seen all of ZZ Gundam and the first part of the story is just a joke compared to Zeta Gundam, it was produced in the style of a childs pantomine and the "humour" was childish and limited, mostly consisted of unbeleivable pratfalls and military personell acting like team rocket.
That would make sense as Who did have something of a crisis of identity back in season 24. However unlike Gundam ZZ, Who was coming off what was perhalps its worst season ever, and the shift into "light entertainment" was digging the hole deeper. For serious Gundam fans, it was probably much larger dissapointment than what we got.

[Cheesecake]

That would make sense as Who did have something of a crisis of identity back in season 24. However unlike Gundam ZZ, Who was coming off what was perhalps its worst season ever, and the shift into "light entertainment" was digging the hole deeper. For serious Gundam fans, it was probably much larger dissapointment than what we got.
No, with Colin BAker being sacked and a middle aged man being played as the doc i was hoping for some more serious Who with epic storylines, instead what i got was rentaghost with incidental music being played on a keyboard:sad:

I cringed because after season 24 i knew Dr Who was truly dead, no way would WHO recover from something as embarassing as Time and The Rani, like ZZ Gundam it got better in its later half but unlike ZZ it never really recovered. Gundam got Chars counter attack while we got that dreadful TV Movie by Fox.:(

[Beat]

I would be in favor of never seeing the original ZZ Gundam, rather Bandai pulling out a movie trilogy deal like they're doing with Z. Of course, this movie triology would problably have to be 99% from scratch.

[rubberchicken]

I would be in favor of never seeing the original ZZ Gundam, rather Bandai pulling out a movie trilogy deal like they're doing with Z. Of course, this movie triology would problably have to be 99% from scratch.

Suits me, just so long as the characters look like themselves and don't come out looking like they're from SEED...

Although I'd rather have a remake of the whole series. *pfft*

[Jarmyn]

The problem with ZZ Gundam is the same problem Doctor who faced in 1986 (its spooky that the time they were made is the same?!) A lot of people criticised Zeta for being too serious, adult and depressing so the higher ups thought it was better to move into kids entertainment and be campin the hope of being more upbeat and marketable.

Like Dr WHo the idea was terrible and ended up being an embrassment to both casual viewers and long-time fans, i've seen all of ZZ Gundam and the first part of the story is just a joke compared to Zeta Gundam, it was produced in the style of a childs pantomine and the "humour" was childish and limited, mostly consisted of unbeleivable pratfalls and military personell acting like team rocket.

Actually i'd describe the first 17 episodes of ZZ Gundam as "Pokemon in space" the main cast consists of a bunch of 12 year olds who somehow become pilots on the aghama ( Why Bright would employ them is mind boggling, he had some lame excuse like " i think they might be new types, the fact that Judau Ashta was orginally a really bad pilot makes Brights reckoning just silly at the least.) The plot is ridocolous, A neo zeon ship turns up for a convuluted reason and each week trys to desroy the zeta gundam with a single mobile suit. the aghama stays in port for 8 episodes! And each week basically a comical "bad guy" would choose to challenge the zeta gundam ,Judau and his friends would try to steal the zeta gundam for the comical reason of "selling it" and Judau would appeal to his " good guy side" and fight of the enemy of the week in a power rangerrs style duel. The neo zeon guy would say " I'll get you next time" Judau and his friends would leave (for the sake of honour?) and promise to come back and steal the zeta gundam next weelk and the same story would repeat itself. ( why oh why The Aghama crew didnt arrest or just shoot Judau is just beyond rational sense, but this series is just so camp and stupid it doesnt matter)

There was serious character degeneration aswell, Neo Zeon were porceived as a fascist and cunning military force in Zeta Gundam, in ZZ there turned into a group of bumbling incompetents complete with pratfalls and sichophantic rants. ( "i promised the beatiful haman i would not fail! "..yuck)
Yazan quikly turns into dick Dastardly and each episode he appears wearing Tom Bakers hat and tries to do something incomprehenisble (pole vault onto inferior mobile suits and steal mopeds) and each episode he'd meet some comical undignified failure ( falling into swers and getting covered in scrapyard junk to name a few)..and to rub salt into the wound he died trying to parahcute a thousand metres with his jacket! ( worst comical death since the Joker tripped in a puddle of water!). Bright is turned from a capable Captain into a unrespected geography teacher ( complete with chickens jumping on his head and the kids saying he's a useless middle aged man who should lie down and retire...whatever happened to the Captain who smacked Amuro aorund for being a wuss? here Bright has no power, no dignity and no respect).

The incidental muisc is now 80% "Comical scores" which sound too silly to use for The Laurel and Hardy cartoon let alone a sci-fi drama.

The Mobile suit action is now more silly than power rangers compelte with the Zeta Gundam using kung fu and Zakus scratching there backsides. The Zeta Gundam itself is stripped of all its dignity when its head is replaced with a Zakus creating the monstrosity which is " The Zeta-zaku".

And if you thought Shinta and Kumu were a bad idea in Zeta Gunda you should see there antics in ZZ, there camper than a row of tents at Butlins.

If this wasnt all bad enough were treated to The "Moon-moon" saga which consists of The Aghama finding a colony run by aztec space hippies who dont use technology want to use the Aghama to spread their religion across the universe..they also beleive mobile suits are giant gods and they pray to the ZZ....( even Dr Who and Star Trek never got this ridicolous!)

When you compare this series to what Gundam used to be like you cant help but weep at how camp and farsical zz is. The episode where the Aghama is assaulted by a neo zeon squadron is terrible, " Dont use your guns! we want to take the Aghama with our own strength! we are the honourable knights of Neo zeon, Banzai!" we then get treated to the most slapstick "battle" ever complete with neo zeons troops being pushed back with chickens, Sink plungers and brooms.

the basic line is this should have happend to a serious sci-fil war drama like Gundam, and the comedy isnt funny 95% of the time, just embarassing and silly. This style of production killed off Dr Who and nearly killed off Gundam, thank god Tomino stepped in to rewrite the last part of ZZ and made it reasonably entertaining. ( You can Tell Tomino took over aorund episode 17 because people start dying and the war is taken seriously, also all the "comical" neo zeon characters are killed off and replaced with more serious villains.) Well, you got a point there. While ZZ is inferior to Zeta and most other Gundam shows. I just don't think it's the worst Gundam ever. Here is what I think, Victory> MSG and Zeta> CCA> SEED and SEED Destiny> Wing and Endless Waltz> 08th MS Team> 0080> Turn A> ZZ> 0083> F91> X>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G .

[Jarmyn]

...Great. Best way to defend a show is by making another show your whipping boy :rolleyes: How about actually providing reasons and not just assuming everyone will go "LOL yeah!!!1" ? G Gundam was just stupid. Go read Matt Wilson's review about it and you will see why becuse it's true.

[HellCat]

G Gundam was just stupid. Go read Matt Wilson's review about it and you will see why becuse it's true.
Are you actually going to give me some reasons to back up your opinion? I'm already aware of how Matt views the show and whilst I might not agree with his thoughts on the matter I respect them because he at least bothers to back them up.
Poorly placed mudslinging is not going to make me change my opinion on a show which I'm a big fan of. People need to learn that the 'black sheeps' have their fans and that they have good reasons to hold that title. So show some intelligence and actually support your thinking.

[Youko Recca]

Here is what I think, Victory> MSG and Zeta> CCA> SEED and SEED Destiny> Wing and Endless Waltz> 08th MS Team> 0080> Turn A> ZZ> 0083> F91> X>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G .Wow...Seed and Wing infront 08th MS Team and 0080......[sad face]

I've heard nothing but bad things about ZZ, so I kinda..eh on checking it out. But I'll have to.

[rubberchicken]

Fansubs are pretty easy to find through the usual channels - much easier than Zeta episodes, actually.

And there's no way that Wing is better than 0080 and 08th MS Team.

[GWOtaku]

posted by rubberchicken:

And there's no way that Wing is better than 0080 and 08th MS Team.
Sure there is. 8th MS team is mostly a love story spread out over 13 episodes--everything builds up to the meetings and subsequent reunion between Aina and Shiro. Not that its a bad show, but not nearly as complex or exciting as most other Gundam shows. It does do a good job highlighing the human level of it all, but in terms of that 0080 does a better job in less time. 0080, while quite good, is a side story that deals with one dimension of it all, while MSG, Wing, Seed, etc give you the whole package.

[Beat]

Dammit, 0080 made me cry. GW couldn't do that in a trillion years. I mean, Bernie didn't have to die man. He just wanted to survive the war, and be a big man. He didn't deserve to go out like that...:crying:


In any event, they're both better than G Gundam and endings so sugary that they cause tooth decay.

[JetMaster5]

I find Wing to be confusing. All the stuff that show builted on just confuses me. The only saving grace Wing had was their animation flair. Now that was sweet.

Here's what I think:

0080>MS08>G>CCA>Wing>0083>MSG>SD

I have not watched Z, ZZ, F91, X, V, & Turn A. I hadn't finished watching SEED yet and SEED Destiny isn't finished, so I won't judge it. I hated SD and found ZakoZako Hour to be the only thing entertaining in that show. MSG bored me to death until they got to space. Wing's got the animation flair, but that's it. CCA was good, nothing bad about it. I liked G a lot, since it didn't take Gundam seriously and yet, there was something great about it. Maybe there was emotion and an intriguing plot. MS08 was one of my favorites, as it had great plot and it was enjoyable to return to the 1 Yr. War in modern form. 0080 was very touching.

[rubberchicken]

Sure there is. 8th MS team is mostly a love story spread out over 13 episodes--everything builds up to the meetings and subsequent reunion between Aina and Shiro. Not that its a bad show, but not nearly as complex or exciting as most other Gundam shows. It does do a good job highlighing the human level of it all, but in terms of that 0080 does a better job in less time. 0080, while quite good, is a side story that deals with one dimension of it all, while MSG, Wing, Seed, etc give you the whole package.

*sigh*

Do I really need to start pointing out all of Wing's shortcomings again?

[GWOtaku]

posted by rubberchicken:

Do I really need to start pointing out all of Wing's shortcomings again? There's nothing you can say that I haven't heard before and cannot refut with an equally legitimate counterargument. So no, you don't have to. For now, until the Christmas break I don't have the time to initiate a debate about it. So be content respecting our mutual disagreement about the issue, as I do.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Kinda strange that Wing is on of the least popular series, yet the first to reach america

[GWOtaku]

Kinda strange that Wing is on of the least popular series, yet the first to reach america Wing was rather popular in Japan, so its hardly strange. I'm not aware of how the ratings compare, but certainly prior to the Gundam Seed continuity it was easily the most popular and successful alternate universe. Its a mistake to judge perception of Wing or any other Gundam installment based on a small wing (no pun intended) of the fanbase, however vocal.

[Cheesecake]

Kinda strange that Wing is on of the least popular series, yet the first to reach america

1. It starts its own time line so no continuity worries.

2. its relitavely new so The netwroks wont worry about "retro" looking shows.

3. Marketing, it had pretty boys for girls and giant robot action for boys, they just saw it as an equal opputunity thing.

4. its reasonably beningn so there wasnt too much eiditng needed, although elimanting tarces of the words "death" and " kill" was totally unescessary.

[Justice Gundam]

ZZ Gundam? We're talking about one of my favourite Gundam series ever - possibly my favourite UC series together with 0080. Yes, I know ZZ gets a bad rep for its humorous antics and SUPPOSED bad writing. I never saw anything wrong with ZZ, and I've always considered it a great series. Yes, I'll say it: I like ZZ better than Z - and before anyone says anything, I say what us Italians always like to say, "de gustibus non est disputandum" (no arguing over personal tastes).

My reason for liking ZZ so much is quite simple: it's different from any other UC series. The humour in the first half was (to me, at least) something unexpected, but new and refreshing after the angst and tragedy of other series. Judo (that's the translitteration I use) is a whole 180 from the whiny (while intelligent and capable) Amuro of the first series, or the angry Camille, and a main character I can relate to much more easily: finally a funny, friendly guy who actually seems a common boy you could meet every day. Same with Mashmar - a Gundam villain who sniffs a rose and prays to Hamaan? That was unheard of, and yet it worked for me: it was something different from the usual 'villain with secret agenda' (*shakes fist angrily at Scirocco*).

If I have to be frank, VICTORY sounds quite silly to me as a Gundam series (no offense to Victory fans!): it's too... how to put it... 'good vs. evil' for a Gundam series, has some mecha design I found ridiculous (Motorbike battleships? Mobile Suits flying on beam rotors? Please...) and that nastily contrasted with the series' dark, almost despairing tone. And then, we have HER, the most loathsome character ever to disgrace an anime, the ever-annoying, irredeemably evil... Katejina Loos! Her presence alone disqualifies V in my book.

Sorry, got a bit side-tracked... Anyway, I put my opinion in about ZZ. I'm a ZZ fan and will always be.

[Cheesecake]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Cheesecakus/piccie2.bmpNice to see Yazan survived for a reason....

[rubberchicken]

He has to give Judau an excuse to show off his uberkid power, of course.

And if you think the SEED universe's gundamjacks are ridiculous, wait until you see ZZ, where Judou steals the Zeta Gundam from a ship full of battle-hardened soldiers in EVERY episode, and then gives it back at the end so that he can steal it again in the next one.

[rubberchicken]

'villain with secret agenda'

See also: Gremy Todo :D

[Cheesecake]

He has to give Judau an excuse to show off his uberkid power, of course.

And if you think the SEED universe's gundamjacks are ridiculous, wait until you see ZZ, where Judou steals the Zeta Gundam from a ship full of battle-hardened soldiers in EVERY episode, and then gives it back at the end so that he can steal it again in the next one.
yeah that was hilarious in a embarassing kind of way.

Episode 1 the Zeta version.

Judau: Come on gang" pelt the enemy with oranges and cabbages!"

Bright: Return fire with MACHINE GUNS men!

* all the kids get masacred*

Bright: " Well thats the end of them..."

[rubberchicken]

The series' quality would've been enhanced exponentially if Shinta and Qum had been stepped on by a Gaza-D in the first episode.

[Beat]

Glemy Toto was a good idea though. I mean, a clone of the Zeon Hitler could be pretty scary if done correctly.

[Cheesecake]

Glemy Toto was a good idea though. I mean, a clone of the Zeon Hitler could be pretty scary if done correctly.
unfortunately i dont remmeber Ghiren being a moron so it kind of loses its touch.
I really cant picture Ghiren grabbing hold of James from Pokemons legs begging him not be under the command of a bimbo with weird 80's hair.

[Beat]

Well, a good idea and actually good in practice are two seperate things entirely.

[Jack Frenzy]

On old memory from the nineties, but of relevance to the discussion:

I remember reading an article (perhaps in AnimeUK, but I forget) in which they explained "the story behind ZZ."

Apparently, Tomino threw his heart and soul into Zeta, and when it ended he really wanted a break from Gundam. However, Zeta was such a monster hit that the anime execs browbeat him into making ZZ.

He was against it, but gave in ...sort of.

Feeling that he had done everything he could with Gundam, he actually set out to sink the new series: replacing soldiers with "juvenile delinquents" (his words supposedly), using less-believable Mobile Suit designs intended to look like toys on screen (including the ZZ Gundam itself), and replacing the dark serious tone with a joking one.

However, despite all his sabotage, it became clear that the die-hard fans would not give up; and more importantly, the executives were determined to make ths show work. Plus, he began getting ideas for a grand finale to the Amuro/Char conflict, which would become "Char's Counterattack."

So, he gave up trying to sink the show and made an effort to restore the quality of Zeta. Hence, the improvements in the second half.

Anyhow, that's how I remember it being reported.

[Cheesecake]

I heard that Tomino didnt wirte the first half of ZZ and some untalented hack did, but Tomino stepped in at the last minute and we wrote what the hack did but he only had time to re write from episode 17 onwards.

im porbabrly wrong though.

[HellCat]

The latest I've heard was that Tomino didn't like the grim tone of Zeta at the end. He felt that anime at that time as a whole was far too gloomy and depressing, so for ZZ he wanted to do something more light hearted and fun because he believed that entertainment should cheer you up and relieve you, not make you feel down.

[Ryoutarou]

Make you think, not make you feel down...most of the time:sweat:

I'd heard that that he never tried to sink it, that he wrote a script and the hack took a few things from it and then changed the rest...thus him having to come in a fix it.

[rubberchicken]

This morning someone told me that Gundam fans were naughty boys and girls and Santa gave them ZZ as punishment.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

This morning someone told me that Gundam fans were naughty boys and girls and Santa gave them ZZ as punishment.
Ha Ha LOL :anime:

serouslly though: Is ZZ Gundam really that bad?

[Cheesecake]

Ha Ha LOL :anime:

serouslly though: Is ZZ Gundam really that bad?
The first 16 episodes or so are yes. The main reason being NOTHING FRIGGIN INTERESTING HAPPENS for the majority of the first half, i mean in ZETA Gundam by episode 7 so much had happend and the plot was moving so far forward at a drmatic pace.

by episode 7 of ZZ Gundam we were still seeing the same episodic storyline since episode 1.

1. Comical moron from neo zeon sais " I will challenge zeta gundam and beat it in a duel! that will prove i am the ultiamte big man warrior! hahahahaha!"

2. Judau and his 12 year old friends say " Lets steal the zeta gundam from the Aghama and sell it! Come on gang this will be easy!"

3. Stupid comic antics ensue like a random farm animal jumping on brights head or the villain sneazing.

4. Judau effortlessy gets in the Z Gundam cockpit and bright sais " Those darn kids again!" on the radio. Judau is about to escape when the Neo zeon villain of the week turns up (usally mashymyre) and challenges Zeta Gundam to a duel.

5. Judau faffs around a bit and sais " This sucks! but i guess i have to fight this guy!" Judau defeats the enemy ( not kill him ,just fend him off like in a saturday morning cartoon) the enemy guy sais " I will get you next time! and flys off.

6. Judau returns the Zeta Gundam to to the aghama and sais " For the sake of honour i'll give you the Zeta Gundam back, but next week i'll be back and REALLY steal it!

7. Bright sais " I'll look forward to it you little scamp!" Judau na dhis friends go home, have a scooby doo style laugh about nothing inparticular ( Judau eating too many hamburgers) and the epsidoe ends with silly comic music playing in the backgorund.

8. next episode the whole storyline repeats itself again only occasionally featuring a differnet neo zeon guy.

[kaine23]

Maybe we'll get lucky and if ZZ ever comes over we'll get episode 17 to the end, or maybe not. :P

Isn't episode 1 worth watching since it wraps up Zeta though?

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Has anyone finished watching Zeta yet ?:zim:

[Conan-san]

Has anyone finished watching Zeta yet ?:zim: There's probably been some sado who's gone through Zeta in one go.

[rubberchicken]

Isn't episode 1 worth watching since it wraps up Zeta though?

Depends what you mean by "wraps up". It's a clip show that summarizes what happened in Zeta, but the action doesn't start until the second episode.

Zeta ended with standard big-battle-in-outer-space, while ZZ begins with the Argama limping into a spaceport for repairs a little while later.