The Customer Is Always Right

[Uncle Beaglebub]

"I smell the smelly smell of something that smells smelly!" - Mr. Krabs


My man SpongeBob just got a new batch of episodes ordered by Nickelodeon. The total will now be 80. Who knows how many more too! And look! He's in theaters right now!

Why can't my buddy Kim Possible be treated this well? She'll be dead at 65 in April just like all the other Disney shows. And no KP movie to go and see either.

You can't tell me she isn't popular. Kim sells enough merchandise to support a small country. Speaking of countries, Kim is seen in 75 of them globaly.

And don't say that children won't miss her. Don't say you can pull the plug on a good cartoon, and they will find another one to watch. In my nightly travels through the web, I see what children are saying about the end of Kim Possible. "Please don't cancel Kim! I love her!" Their words haunt me. And a lot of adults say they don't want the show to end either. SpongeBob isn't the only cartoon character to be liked by all age groups.

A cartoon gets stale after 65 shows people say. Well, nothing gets staler than reruns. You think I don't like fresh shows? Kim is fresh yet! That terrible smell is coming from stale reruns of cancelled shows on The Disney Channel.

Nickelodeon knows what its customers want. They want more of what they like.

[Jave]

Spongebob is getting renewed because right now, it's Nickelodeon biggest moneymaker. Nickelodeon is well known for squeezing their hot properties until the fans start to get sick of it (like Rugrats).

I might get flamed for this, but KP is not nearly as popular as Spongebob is. There's a lot more SP merchandising, and the very little KP merchadising I've seen doesn't appeal to me at all.

Also, down here where I live (see my Location), I'll say 90% of the general cartoon-watching population have no idea who KP is, probably because Disney Channel only is available through satellite dishes or premium cable. Spongebob, on the other hand, is available through Nick which is on nearly every basic cable system. Most countries show SP in local networks too, so I can actually see him in two different channels, unlike KP, whose Latin-American fandom is pretty much non-existant.

"Rocko's Modern Life" and "Aaaah, Real Monsters" had HUGE fandoms, but none of them got renewed after their 52-episode contract expired. Don't say that Nick treats their cartoons better than Disney, because in average, Disney's shows had lasted longer. The only Nicktoons that made more episodes than originally planned where Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Spongebob. I know Disney went longer with more than three shows.

[loyalheart]

yeah, i think didnt it also come VERY close to Spongebob's creator/producer NOT working on the new episodes?

i agree spongebob is more popular however....disney channel shouldnt be premium cable really, it's mostly basic cable - you'd have to be living in a shell not to know who she is or hear her name at least, plus dont forget "kim possible" is on abckids...broadcast tv.....

[Jave]

i agree spongebob is more popular however....disney channel shouldnt be premium cable really, it's mostly basic cable - you'd have to be living in a shell not to know who she is or hear her name at least, plus dont forget "kim possible" is on abckids...broadcast tv.....Did you check my location? I'm not talking about the US...

[Classic Speedy]

SpongeBob also just had a movie released in theatres, so it's only natural to want to ride the coat tails of its success with a new batch of episodes. Besides, this new season was being planned before the movie was released.

[BigKPFan76]

I dont understand it either beagle. I dont understand what it wrong with letting a show run out its popularity. I dont care about the addage of it "becoming stale" (if i had a nickle for everytime i heard that....I COULDA GRANDE SIZED!-Ron) I have said it before and i'll say it again....65 episodes in not stale.

But ya know, I think Disney wants us to feel this way...angry and frustrated...and give up, so that they can continue putting more and more less quality shows on the air. IOW, they want us to give up trying to save KP or Lilo and Stich, or any other quality show, so that they can continue with the same status quo ditch they have been stuck in for the last how many ever years.

Some have said, well without the 65 ep limit, you wouldnt have gotten KP in the first place...well that may be true, introducing new shows is part of every networks operation...however, here lately with Disney, its getting ridiculous. 15 new shows in less than 4 years? Thats outragous! What about us? The fans of shows that are currently airing? We like our shows, and we say keep them. We want to see more. So give us what we deserve.

Well, Im gonna keep fighting...some doubt it will do any good.....but frankly, I dont care. I will keep fighting for Kim as long as I can still breathe, take that Disney!

[One Radical Dude]

I dont understand it either beagle. I dont understand what it wrong with letting a show run out its popularity. I dont care about the addage of it "becoming stale" (if i had a nickle for everytime i heard that....I COULDA GRANDE SIZED!-Ron) I have said it before and i'll say it again....65 episodes in not stale.

But ya know, I think Disney wants us to feel this way...angry and frustrated...and give up, so that they can continue putting more and more less quality shows on the air. IOW, they want us to give up trying to save KP or Lilo and Stich, or any other quality show, so that they can continue with the same status quo ditch they have been stuck in for the last how many ever years.

Some have said, well without the 65 ep limit, you wouldnt have gotten KP in the first place...well that may be true, introducing new shows is part of every networks operation...however, here lately with Disney, its getting ridiculous. 15 new shows in less than 4 years? Thats outragous! What about us? The fans of shows that are currently airing? We like our shows, and we say keep them. We want to see more. So give us what we deserve.

Well, Im gonna keep fighting...some doubt it will do any good.....but frankly, I dont care. I will keep fighting for Kim as long as I can still breathe, take that Disney!
Fight the good fight, I say! :cool: It certainly doesn't hurt to keep on fighting.

[tucsoncoyote]

Fight the good fight, I say! :cool: It certainly doesn't hurt to keep on fighting.Well One Radical Dude, I will tell you something.. Lilo and Stitch is the next to go.. after all why can't they do more with this show as well?

as for the KP/Spongebob ish.. it's the fact that Nickelodeon is willing to take a bigger risk. after all they took a risk with Rugrats and it lasted 10 seasons.. far longer then most people probably wanted it..(Okay then why weren't the fans complaingg about Rugrats 7 seasons ago?

If you look at any and all shows Disney Have produced (including taking a Former Nick show (Doug) and running it.. It's never gotten anove 65 episodes execpet for Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, The Wekeneders, Recess, Aladdin and Gargoyles.. now the majority of these shows are in the vault NEVER to be shown again to younger fans.. if they knew their heritage.. they would come to apprecate the shows more.. after all I've been around since Gummi Bears were out and believe me.. without the past.. there is no future..

:coyote:

[One Radical Dude]

Well One Radical Dude, I will tell you something.. Lilo and Stitch is the next to go.. after all why can't they do more with this show as well?

as for the KP/Spongebob ish.. it's the fact that Nickelodeon is willing to take a bigger risk. after all they took a risk with Rugrats and it lasted 10 seasons.. far longer then most people probably wanted it..(Okay then why weren't the fans complaingg about Rugrats 7 seasons ago?

If you look at any and all shows Disney Have produced (including taking a Former Nick show (Doug) and running it.. It's never gotten anove 65 episodes execpet for Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, The Wekeneders, Recess, Aladdin and Gargoyles.. now the majority of these shows are in the vault NEVER to be shown again to younger fans.. if they knew their heritage.. they would come to apprecate the shows more.. after all I've been around since Gummi Bears were out and believe me.. without the past.. there is no future..

:coyote: I do realize that the series (Lilo & Stitch) will be facing the same fate next year as Kim Possible (unless a miraculous event occurs). I certainly hope at the end, tc, Disney fans will win the battle. The youngest generations should be given the opportunity to see the programs you mentioned.

No doubt, if there is no past, then there isn't a future to gain.

[tucsoncoyote]

I do realize that the series (Lilo & Stitch) will be facing the same fate next year as Kim Possible (unless a miraculous event occurs). I certainly hope at the end, tc, Disney fans will win the battle. The youngest generations should be given the opportunity to see the programs you mentioned.

No doubt, if there is no past, then there isn't a future to gain.How true One Radical Dude, after all a lot of the shows that are today are based on some of those older show styles..after all I agree with what you say.. after all there are people out there who say we're wrong.. (and we're the customers..) gee do they know anything about Customer service? Actually in this case.. they're just doing a disservice to themselves by not having a full enriched future of Quality shows.. rather then the crud that is out there today.

that's really all I need to say.

:coyote:

[Conan-san]

How true One Radical Dude, after all a lot of the shows that are today are based on some of those older show styles..after all I agree with what you say.. after all there are people out there who say we're wrong.. (and we're the customers..) gee do they know anything about Customer service? Actually in this case.. they're just doing a disservice to themselves by not having a full enriched future of Quality shows.. rather then the crud that is out there today.

that's really all I need to say.

:coyote:
The problem is, that the greater majourity eat up that salt-water crap up like pigs. Leaving the fine dishes (The aformentioned shows) to go to waste and rot away.

[Uncle Beaglebub]

Spongebob is getting renewed because right now, it's Nickelodeon biggest moneymaker. Nickelodeon is well known for squeezing their hot properties until the fans start to get sick of it (like Rugrats).

I might get flamed for this, but KP is not nearly as popular as Spongebob is. There's a lot more SP merchandising, and the very little KP merchadising I've seen doesn't appeal to me at all.

Also, down here where I live (see my Location), I'll say 90% of the general cartoon-watching population have no idea who KP is, probably because Disney Channel only is available through satellite dishes or premium cable. Spongebob, on the other hand, is available through Nick which is on nearly every basic cable system. Most countries show SP in local networks too, so I can actually see him in two different channels, unlike KP, whose Latin-American fandom is pretty much non-existant.

"Rocko's Modern Life" and "Aaaah, Real Monsters" had HUGE fandoms, but none of them got renewed after their 52-episode contract expired. Don't say that Nick treats their cartoons better than Disney, because in average, Disney's shows had lasted longer. The only Nicktoons that made more episodes than originally planned where Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Spongebob. I know Disney went longer with more than three shows.
Paragraph 1: Isn't that what I'm saying? Disney ought to run KP a while longer, because there's money to be made. And I am not saying to run her into the ground, just until fans begin to drop out.

Paragraph 2: SpongeBob is more popular than KP, but does that mean Kim isn't a worthwhile investment? Yes, SB is more popular than KP, and has more merchandising. For one reason, more adults are into SB. However, KP is still very popular, and sells a LOT of stuff. I don't know the situation in Chile, but here in the US the KP merchandise is selling out faster than it arrives in many locations. There is no way to sell the various KP merchandise without strong fan appeal. I try to keep tabs on new and current KP products on the web. Not only because I like what's offered, but also because it helps me to know the health of this show. I would assume that, since new KP products are being produced by multiple manufacturers it means the show is doing very well! As an example, right now I have seen wholesaler reports offering many NEW Equity Marketing Kim toys, and also for REISSUED toys that were sold last year.

Paragraph 3: It is unfortunate that you can't watch Kim Possible very easily in your country. I didn't have any television watching data about you personally, or Chile as a whole. All I have is aggregate data that says The Disney Channel is available widely, but not how heavily concentrated in each country. Clearly, in Chile more distribution of Disney/ABC programming is needed. Nickelodeon has an advantage there. Again, this allows SpongeBob to be available to more people worldwide. However, I stand by my argument that KP is seen worldwide and has a decent viewership.

Paragraph 4: As of right now, Nickelodeon is a better place to become loyal to a show. Even though Kim Possible is popular, she will end at 65. PERIOD. Every single Disney show has ended at 65 for many years, despite popularity and fan uproar. "That's So Raven" has been extended to 78 episodes in a move to ABC next fall, but that is a rare exception to the current precedent. At the present time, if a show on Nickelodeon is popular it will stay in production. As for Disney, if you're not a Raven fan you are out of luck.

[tucsoncoyote]

The problem is, that the greater majourity eat up that salt-water crap up like pigs. Leaving the fine dishes (The aformentioned shows) to go to waste and rot away.Now that's a very poignant thought there Conan-san, and yet the so called "majority" fails to realize one thing...

They're getting older as well.. all of us are...

yet those people who Say that "Kim Possible stinks" or Lilo and Stitch" are stupid don't realize one thing.. a lot of older quality shows (like Darkwing Duck, Talespin, and the rest) helped make these newer shows..

I would like to point out there is a hypocricy here.. and in fact I think this is something for the true Disney Fan to ask themselves..

why have Cheapquels of movies of Feature Films? (After all Mulan was good, but why Mulan 2? ) also why just 65 episodes? In fact it's a major question.. Why is it that these "So Called Fans" of Disney who slam it call it "Garbage" or "Crud" really fail to realize that they too are getting older.. and that in 10 to 12 years the shows they remembered will be in the vaults at Disney, gathering dust, Deteriorating, and never to be shown again.. also do they realize that the "Teenagers of Today" Become the parents of Tomorrow? "

That's really what they want Disney to Be? A butt of a joke? I think not.. Disney means value.. and Quality.. and these current younger fans won't appreciate the older shows is the common excuse I hear.. yet you think about it.. Maybe we should go into the vaults at Disney and Destroy every classic Disney every made.. No Bambi, No Snow White. No Steam boat willie.. and while we're at it. why not just get rid of the new stuff as well? After all in 75 years time it won't mean a bit of issue to these fans..

Now it sounds like I'm getting "Extreme" here.. well so are some of the fans.. they either want all New Stuff or All Old Stuff.. we're saying there can be a happier medium here.. and it deals with Compromise.. and saying.. Keep all the quality shows.. but even those fans are against it..

Also a lot of "So Called Fans" say that some of us Hate Eisner.. Actually .. we hate Mismanagement of the Company, not the CEO personally.. after all it's this mismanagement that has really hurt all of us.. and you know the topic comes back to "The Customer is always right.." Well we as fans should appreciate for once that we are right.. and that big business is wrong.. or do you want to eventually have less creative ideas and show ideas.. after all we're really writing our own future here.. for the future generations.. and if we fail.. we have no one to blame but ourselves for this..

I think I've said enough.. it's time for the fans of Disney to either save it .. or lose it..

Nuff Said..

:coyote:

[Conan-san]

Now that's a very poignant thought there Conan-san, and yet the so called "majority" fails to realize one thing... THe thing is, Coyote-san, that it's true in all animation. I meen if the "Inevitibale" were to happen to Naruto. Who would be lisened to more? A bunch of wining otaku or a legion of (Parent money feuled) 10 year old fans?

But that's going WAY of tangent.

I for one do not like seeing endless sequils that more or less spit in the eye of the orgional stroy. Cinderella didn't need a second story to live happily ever after, the little mermaid didn't need to have a child (or survive for that matter and what's the etheics in a mermaid/Human relationship taken that far anyway?) and Jungle Book 2...just...damnit Haley, you ruined your good image made by 6th sence and Kingdom Hearts...

[tucsoncoyote]

THe thing is, Coyote-san, that it's true in all animation. I meen if the "Inevitibale" were to happen to Naruto. Who would be lisened to more? A bunch of wining otaku or a legion of (Parent money feuled) 10 year old fans?

But that's going WAY of tangent.

I for one do not like seeing endless sequils that more or less spit in the eye of the orgional stroy. Cinderella didn't need a second story to live happily ever after, the little mermaid didn't need to have a child (or survive for that matter and what's the etheics in a mermaid/Human relationship taken that far anyway?) and Jungle Book 2...just...damnit Haley, you ruined your good image made by 6th sence and Kingdom Hearts...That's true Conan-san, but after thinking about this it makes me realize more why fans are much like consumers.. they want to have what they want.. but a lot of large corporations tend not to listen...

but then again there are fans out there who are very much set in their way of thinking..

My belief when it comes to Disney is to keep a few solid things in mind..and these are what a lot of these "So Called Fans" miss in their issues.. let me explain some of these..perhaps then maybe they might see where some of us positive thinnking fans are coming from..:

First off we do want to abolish the 65 episode rule granted.. but it's not because of the fact that it's "just a policy.." A story should be told to it's full extent.. but some fans go way overboard and think we're trying to keep a show on forever.. we're not.. we're trying to bring or see a show come to a Logical conclusion.. (after all Sure the Walt Disney Company may only show 65 episodes.. but what about other possible ideas..? (I and a number of fans have sat down and come up with at least 20 new ideas that could be used in Just the show Kim Possible alone, including introducing New villains and villainesses..And what about the Gargoyles fans? (After all there is a Gargoyles fan base who have come up with some very creative and interesting stories, again with some of them creating some rather unique and Interesting characters! (after all we think that a story should have a wider variety in storytelling rather then the same characters every week! (the same could be said for the older shows too..(Chip and Dales for example, could have had new character introduced..) But did we ever say we wanted the show to continue forever? Well no we never said that..we want to bring any show or story to a logical conclusion which would be satisfactory to everyone..(and if fans wanted to see a sequel series to this then by all means..(after all a life story never ends.. it just continues..)

And Speaking of Sequels, I do agree that what you again are saying is true... after all if the original story is good, why tinker with it? After all there are hundreds of stories Disney hasn't tapped yet (including Chicken Little) so why reinvent a classic?

All it would do is cheapen the idea or the original story, but as for what some fans are suggesting in some of the older shows are to see new ideas..and that's where restoring an old show might be feasible..(but as for Classic Feature Movies? Nope not going to touch those.. after all that's what made Disney great..)

In conclusion a lot of the fans who love Disney now aren't just teenagers or young kids, but also adults..(take a look at any fan base of any show and you can find older people as well as the newest fans.. after all wouldn't it be interesting to see some ideas continue? if not for the older fans, then by all means the younger folks who probably have nevered experienced these older more classic stories?

and that is where this fallacy lies Conan-san.. this is something that Disney and the fans must address. After all it comes back to this issue about the Customer again being right.. we are the real folks of Disney.. Not the folks in Burbank.. we control what they do, not the other way around.. and we say it in dollars and cents.. with Ticket Purchases, and with buying Disneyana items.. in short.. without us, there would be no reason to keep this forum open..especially when some of these "So Called Fans" of Disney are so short sighted in their logic.. after all Walt Disney didn't build The animation studio.. he though did listen to what people said.. and he used that to his best experience to create a wonderful and diverse group of stories we've all come to love and enjoy.. From Mickey mouse to Kim Possible (and the Girls of Witch) and beyond.. after all I think Like I stated before without a Past, no future of Disney is really possible.

that's really all I need to say.

:coyote:

[Conan-san]

Such and such Ah, right, I was talkin' about the Movies. I'm not against what your sayin' ether.