Episodes you hated but everyone else loved

[Carrieattheprom]

Since some folks in my other thread they had more cases of the reverse, I started a thread for them. So these are the episodes that everyone loves to gush about. But you can't understand what's so great about them.


From BTAS, although I don't hate it I find it seriously overrated, On Leather Wings.

[Gentleman Ghost]

Heart of Ice. I don't hate it by any means, but I find it very overrated. I've never understood all the love and attention it gets from everyone. I think Deep Freeze is a far better and more touching episode.

[Silverbolt]

For the Man who has everything. If they wanted to do this episode it should have been a JL episode and it should have had a full hour. Everything felt rushed in it. Villian just shows up probably where he shouldn't be with no explination, and I think he was wearing his crown as well again.


A Better World--I don't hate it, but I definately don't consider it one of the best episodes of JL either.

Hereafter--This would have worked alot better had it focused on the league without Superman more. They needed to show that they could survive without him instead of it being Superman and his amazing friends...and Batman.

[paulie]

For the Man who has everything. If they wanted to do this episode it should have been a JL episode and it should have had a full hour. Everything felt rushed in it. Villian just shows up probably where he shouldn't be with no explination, and I think he was wearing his crown as well again.
Word. I know I was supposed to get all emotional, but it just didn't click. And angry Supes doesn't do it for me, either. Probably the best thing about this episode was seeing the invisible jet for the first time. And I totally agree that this should have been an hour episode--they really could have established a better connection between the audience and Van-El, and also played up the sacrifice Diana was making.

[ryeck]

Maid of Honor
Wild Cards
This Little Piggy
The Greatest Story Never Told

[Fone Bone]

Harlequinade. I hate this with a passion.

[Salvor]

Wow Maxie I'm stunned. Those are my favorite BTAS episodes, simply because they had some of the best writing I've ever seen on the show, and more importantly they were probably some of the very few episodes that really delved into Batman's inner demons. And not at all in a cliched obvious way, as you suggested, but in a dark atmospheric and very psychological way.

As for this topic, well I hated most JL episodes that everyone loved, so there :) To cite a few: Hereafter, and Terror Beyond.

[Maxie Zeus]

Heh. Okay, I guess I'm responsible for this thread, so I'll play along. And make myself really unpopular :D

"I Am the Night": Batman is the strong and silent type. So why do people love an episode that turns him (and everyone else) into a Chatty Cathy--especially when no one in the ep says anything remotely interesting or surprising? Wait, I can answer that. It's because this episode isn't a drama, it's a liturgical ritual: Characters stand around and recite obvious little homilies. It's Sunday school for fanboys. (PS, I hated Sunday school, too.)

"Dreams in Darkness": Another obvious story that hammers away at viewers too thick to appreciate subtlety. It gabbles away about Batman's inner demons (BAM!), and dramatizes them with hallucinations (BAM! BAM!) and even has him comment on them in a voiceover (BAM! BAM! BAM!). And the voiceover is lousy with cliches (Oh, my thumb!).

"Appointment in Crime Alley": The worst Sean Derek script that Sean Derek never wrote.

[Mynd Hed]

For the Man who has everything. If they wanted to do this episode it should have been a JL episode and it should have had a full hour. Everything felt rushed in it. Villian just shows up probably where he shouldn't be with no explination, and I think he was wearing his crown as well again.

I'm with you, although I really don't think it would've been any better at an hour. The problem wasn't the length, it was that they wasted time that could've been spent on characterization with boring alien-on-Amazon fighting.
Although portraying Batman's greatest wish as having his father become more hopelessly violent than most of the villains Bats has fought over the years, and in sepia tone for no apparent reason at that, didn't help much either.

[DisneyBoy]

The Terror Beyond - ugh!

[GL2k2]

The Greatest Story Never Told and This Little Piggy are just terrible beyond the sense of the word. Nothing at all redeemable from this little piggy. I mean I've seen Superfriends episodes better than that.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I would mention "This Little Piggy," but it's not as though that episode is anywhere close to being universally loved.

I haven't been around this particular forum very long, but I didn't like "Secret Origins" very much. I thought it was a disappointing episode.

[Revelator]

"I Am the Night": Batman is the strong and silent type. So why do people love an episode that turns him (and everyone else) into a Chatty Cathy--especially when no one in the ep says anything remotely interesting or surprising? Wait, I can answer that. It's because this episode isn't a drama, it's a liturgical ritual: Characters stand around and recite obvious little homilies. It's Sunday school for fanboys. (PS, I hated Sunday school, too.)
I couldn't agree more. "I Am the Night" is what BTAS would be like if it were more like Gargoyles: insufferably pretentious. Batman stands around yakking and reciting Nietzshe's over-quoted line about the abyss (Michael Reaves, put down the Bartlett's) and the episode goes nowhere because it's encased in its self-consciousness--it's drama imposed on the characters in the most schematic, clubfooted manner imaginable. It's treatment of Batman exploring his inner demons amounts to little more than Batman basically saying "I'm exploring my inner demons." And the slow motion sequence still makes me giggle. This episode is just full of itself. How anyone could think of this sort of middlebrow handwringing twaddle as good writing boggles the mind.

As for other dislikes, I basically think that Mr.Freeze should never again have been used after "Heart of Ice," unless they had adapted the short story from the Holiday Adventures comic special. The nadir of his career was his WWF grudge match with Derek Powers, where he bellows "Blight' in tones that suggest he was about to crack a chair over Hulk Hogan's head. Brionging back Freeze's wife in the first place was way too Marvel comics, and by the time of "Meltdown" she could just as well have never existed.

[Revelator]

I haven't been around this particular forum very long, but I didn't like "Secret Origins" very much. I thought it was a disappointing episode.
It's certainly very damn dull. The only interesting parts are Jonn and Diana's orgins, and that takes up 1/10th of an otherwise tedious alien invasion story that has hardly an original idea in it.

[EmaHalJordan]

Dark Heart

Paradise Lost

Starcrossed

The Return

A Knight of Shadows

The Terror Beyond

Twilight

Only a dream

[Crow]

Hey wow.

A Better World, like I said in the other thread. 'Hate' is a word that is thrown around a bit too much for my liking. I really hate when that happens.

[Doomsday]

Dark Heart

Paradise Lost

Starcrossed

The Return

A Knight of Shadows

The Terror Beyond

Twilight

Only a dream

WOW, the list of yours are some of my favorite episodes, well you can think whatever you want to. I am not a fan of Secret Origins and really don't like In Blackest Night and The Brave and the Bold. Also don't like Heart and Minds, Eclipsed, and Hawk and Dove but hardly anyone likes those episodes so I'm with the everyone crowd there.

[Krypton_Knight]

Twilight.
Harley's Holiday.
Heroes.
Tyger, Tyger.

[The Detective]

Heart of Ice - Yes, it provided a great origin for Mr. Freeze. Other than that, it was just a dull, fairly typical Batman stops villian story.

Initation - It wasn't universally loved, but way too many people still liked it.

This Little Piggy - How anyone liked this is something I shall wonder to my dying day.

The Return - What? I was quited bored through the whole thing, then I come online and people are spasming shouting, "BEST EP EVAH!" *shakes head*

Small list, but I don't feel like thinking too hard on it. ;)

</The Detective>

[DerekPowers]

Silverbolt, Paulie, and Mynd Hed, i TOTALLY agree with you about "for the man who has everything". i dont know why the hell everyone loves this episode, but imo, it was VERY weak in so many places.

yes, on their own, the dreams were well done. yes, the animation was quite nice. BUT the dreams were just there, there was no intriguing context for them except, oh, mongul shows up with no explaination. the whole episode was rushed as all hell, the villian had no motive or plan, the dreams didnt work in that context, batman should have just called the watchtower, and wonder woman should have atleast put up a better fight.

and paulie, i agree, angry superman can just be so damn lame. angry superman in 'legacy' was great, but it was way more appropriate and felt much more natural. angry superman in 'ftmwhe' was just, ugh (angry superman in 'twilight' was also a bit on the forced side, imo). plus i just dont like george newburn for the voice. sorry, i just think he sounds weak and tired all the time.

wow, i am SO glad that im not the only one who really didnt care for 'ftmwhe'.

'The Demon Reborn'. i thought it was rushed, the dialogue was campy (check out the scene between batman and lois, camp camp camp, and it was the first time they met since world's finest, a total missed opportunity for greatness), talia's voice acting was horrid, and like i said, there were just so many missed opportunities for some cool stuff, but it just fell flat on its face. i think that its among the worst episodes ever in the pre jl dcau.

[Simpler Simon]

The Enemy Below - not that I dislike this one, but besides Aquaman's sacrifice and Orm falling to his death there's nothing really original or innovative about this story.

Fury - I think this one's gotten fairly good praise, but I don't like it. After all the big build-up, Aresia doesnt even get to launch her bombs at the end of part 2. Just really anti-climatic and dragged out.

You Scratch My Back - again not one I hate by any means, but doesnt really stand out for me either. The whole Catwoman/Nightwing/Batman dynamic didnt work for me.

Sub-Zero - yeah its much better than the live-action Mr. Freeze movie and most non-DCAU comic crap out there, but most if feels like padding with extended action sequences and little story. Batwoman, for its flaws, attempted a few story twists here and there, whereas Sub-Zero goes from A to B without surprises.

[paulie]

and paulie, i agree, angry superman can just be so damn lame. angry superman in 'legacy' was great, but it was way more appropriate and felt much more natural. angry superman in 'ftmwhe' was just, ugh (angry superman in 'twilight' was also a bit on the forced side, imo). plus i just dont like george newburn for the voice. sorry, i just think he sounds weak and tired all the timeHeh, I just chalk up angry Supes to getting his behind kicked so much in JL S1. And while it's understandable why he went off on Mongul, it still seemed out of place for someo reason ("forced" as you say)--I can't give a better explanation than that.

From reading your posts during my lurking days, I think we actually have a similar opinion on most episodes, except "Hawk and Dove". You're right about the pacing and characters being good, but the stilted dialoge at the end just killed it for me. And Ares was such a good, smarmy villian, but he didn't really do anything, which was a disappointment.

[Merlin Missy]

"Injustice For All"

I always spend half the episode flipping the channel. Then Joker shows up and I don't hate it quite as badly but I still get bored. I think it's made worse because of the hype: "Look! It's the Injustice Gang OMG!!! How will the League ever defeat them?!" Meh. Give me the Secret Society any day.

MM:)

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Over the Edge, The Call, and Monkey Fun.

[DisneyBoy]

"Injustice for All" was alright, but I think people liked it because an awful lot of interesting stuff happened within the span of 40 minutes. Luthor was ousted from power (in a dreadfully disappointing opening scene), went to prison for the first time (what? No trial? After spending all of S:TAS building him up to be the one guy who can't be taken down in two minutes...he's suddenly taken down...in two minutes), starts dying (really darn fast!) gets a whole bunch of villains together (none of whom get intros) fights with the League, tries to destroy the Watchtower and then gets a super-suit. Woah. That's an awful lot of stuff going on! I would have preferred to see all that happen over the course of season one, and not in one rushed episode.

[Fone Bone]

Silverbolt, Paulie, and Mynd Hed, i TOTALLY agree with you about "for the man who has everything". i dont know why the hell everyone loves this episode, but imo, it was VERY weak in so many places.

yes, on their own, the dreams were well done. yes, the animation was quite nice. BUT the dreams were just there, there was no intriguing context for them except, oh, mongul shows up with no explaination. the whole episode was rushed as all hell, the villian had no motive or plan, the dreams didnt work in that context, batman should have just called the watchtower, and wonder woman should have atleast put up a better fight.

and paulie, i agree, angry superman can just be so damn lame. angry superman in 'legacy' was great, but it was way more appropriate and felt much more natural. angry superman in 'ftmwhe' was just, ugh (angry superman in 'twilight' was also a bit on the forced side, imo). plus i just dont like george newburn for the voice. sorry, i just think he sounds weak and tired all the time.

wow, i am SO glad that im not the only one who really didnt care for 'ftmwhe'.

'The Demon Reborn'. i thought it was rushed, the dialogue was campy (check out the scene between batman and lois, camp camp camp, and it was the first time they met since world's finest, a total missed opportunity for greatness), talia's voice acting was horrid, and like i said, there were just so many missed opportunities for some cool stuff, but it just fell flat on its face. i think that its among the worst episodes ever in the pre jl dcau.Okay, I can understand how a person could knock FTMWHE. But I'm a little exasperated by some of your reasons.

Why didn't they call the Watchtower? Maybe because it was Superman's secret fortress and only a select few people knew where it was and Bruce didn't know who in the JLU he could trust. Or maybe becuase as Dwayne McDuffie said, the episode took place before Initiation. Whatever, it is a such a lame fanboyish gripe.

As for Mongul's motivations? He's a supervillian! He wants to rule the world! What it so hard to understand about that?

My biggest beef with The Batman is that it treats the audience as morons and spells every dang thing out. (Those crooks are going this way! Look! I'm animated radio!) I think it's WAAAAY more fun to go on the net and speculate on why something happened. A show that makes you think? GOOOOOD.

On a friendly note, I liked Hawk and Dove too, even if I thought it was a little ham-fisted. I thought Dove was a really cool character. I gave the episode ***1/2 in the poll.

[Fone Bone]

Check the Who Do you Love thread in Cafe Toon Zone GMahler.:anime:

[Stu]

Check the Who Do you Love thread in Cafe Toon Zone GMahler.

You two need AIM. Really. :p

I've not been overly fond of a lot of the recent Teen Titans episodes. I think the story structures are starting to dip a little in quality without Slade. The standalone stories are wearing a little thin.

[JLfan4life]

well i pretty much hated all of JL season 1, except for Savage Time (that was ok), and Eclipsed

[paulie]

I couldn't agree with you more. Things don't need to be spelled out, but with JL's 2-parter format they had to be just to fill 44 minutes. People got used to that, so JLU's approach is jarring and people usually don't like change. And besides there was so much filler in JL. Not to say I didn't enjoy the filler, but I think two seasons of 44 minute JL was enough. It would have gotten tedious in a 3rd season.Well, I don't like change when it's change for the worse. Considering I've watched BTAS, STAS, TNBA, and BB, the change back to 30 minute episodes in JLU was unwelcome, yes, because the change to the 1-hour format was WELCOME. There's simply too much to fit into 30 minutes, and often the pacing is off or really jarring. I don't really need things to be spelled out for me; it's more that I miss the down-time and more personal scenes. I'm really looking forward to some later JLU episodes, when this juggling act is more refined.

BTAS pulled it off: 30 minute episodes that resonated emotionally with me. STAS, TNBA, BB (mostly) did not, aside from stuff like "Legacy" and "Apokolips Now!".

Don't get me wrong, though. I really enjoyed BB, and STAS/TNBA were fun to watch too. But they never had the "punch" that BTAS, or JL, have, which is what really separates these shows from the rest of the pack.

Gosh, I come off sounding like I hate JLU--I really don't! I've watched and enjoyed every episode, especially "Kid's Stuff", "TGSNT" and "The Return". I guess posting on message boards makes me sound a lot more hard-nosed than I really am. :o

[Agent S7]

"The Batman". Every single evil episode. I really, really, loathe that show. I just think it's so untrue to the original series. Sorry if I offend anyone, but I really hate that.

[LastSonofKrypton]

Not sure how to use the Spoiler Box, so I'm just going to come out and scream a warning:

SPOILER ALERT! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! SPOILER ALERT! SKIP AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN'T DON'T WANT TO READ SPOILERS!

There, that oughta do it...
<SPOILER>
Definitely "Enemy Below". This episode was almost everything that was wrong with Season 1 of Justice League-
1. The Batman Exclusionary Principle was probably in greater effect here than in any episode (except maybe "Secret Origins").

First off, why was it Batman who figured out what was wrong with Aquaman when they had Aquaman in the tank? You had a bunch of highly trained doctors who had Aquaman hooked up to all sorts of diagnostic equipment, you had Superman who met Aquaman before and knew that he lived and breathed in the ocean, and yet they all stood around stupidly until Batman came in and told them what to do.

Also, at the end, why was it Batman who saved the day by turning the wheel that turned off the doomsday device. Green Lantern was there. Why couldn't GL cover himself and go in and turn the wheel? It was a wheel, the only wheel there! I'm sure GL could have figured it out. But they had to have Batman save the day. Again.

2. Wimpy (and stupid) Superman- Superman grabs manhole cover while chasing Deadshot. Never occurred to Superman to check ahead for booby traps. Gets shocked, doesn't get back up for awhile. Superman's only other purpose in this episode was to apologize to the President after the nuclear sub was swiped by the Atlanteans.

3. Wonder Woman and Flash were completely useless.

Also, "Secret Origins". All of the above complaints plus they never explained how Batman survived the attack from the Invaders when he was clearly surrounded or how he got into the pod from which he sprung at the end to save the day. Not to mention Superman was stupider in this episode than in any episode since.
</SPOILER>

Okay, I've vented my spleen now. I feel better.

[JTurner954]

I don't like the Vandal Savage episodes of Justice League. He doesn't interest me.

The Greatest Story Never is overrated in my opinion. I liked Booster Gold, but not what happened around him.

I'm not a big fan of the B:TAS episode "Over the Edge". I don't like "it was all a dream" episodes, especially since there are so many shows that use them.

For S:TAS, I'll say Legacy. At the end it felt so empty; fortunately, the JL episode with Brainiac and Darkseid made up for it.

[BlackoutCreature]

I still cant watch "Injustice for All" without rolling my eyes and moaning to myself. It was just such an awful episode from start to finish, i couldnt believe that the JL people could take such a cant miss concept as the Injustice Gang and screw it up so badly. It didnt even try to have a real story, it was just a 45 minute "Legion of Doom" nostalgia-piece. The fact that most people see it as a shining light in a dismal season one alludes me to no end as i thought it was probably the worst episode of the series.

[krazymed]

"Starcrossed." It took a bad idea (the HG-GL romance) and tried to make it mean something, but it was way too late for it to mean anything.

[Style]

Warning: For reasons I can't get into, I am very, very angry, and that may leak into my post.

I geuss I'll have to alter the parameters here a bit and say that Darkseid is one character everyone here loves but I hate in the worst possible way. I don't know. Maybe he's cooler in the comics and everyone likes him cause he's still cashing in on comic Darkseid's street cred. But I hate him. He's just a badly conceived character. Just one of those "OMG I'm the greatest evil in the whole universe and everyone bow to my utter badass-ness" sort of insufferable arrogance. Now, this that in of itself might not be bad. When Lobo or Johnny Rancid show up, dripping in the same attitude, well, the greatest stuff every happens. But those two characters have their arrogance played winkingly to the audience. But Darkseid plays it straight, so I find myself board and annoyed.

Broken down by episode...

"Apokolips... NOW!" was a disappointment. You see, it came to pass that I saw the last five minutes of that episode first, before I saw the whole thing. So I was intrigued to see Superman, broken and battered, and imprisoned by Darkseid. I thought the greatest battle ever had happened, and Superman lost. but nope. Instead, I find out that it was one single eyeblast that made Superman look like he was in a fist fight. Lame.

"Legacy" was good. But the fact that Darkseid was in it was only coincidental. Darkseid himself had nothing to do with the coolness of that episode. It was the suspense of Superman's brainwashing that did it, and the consequences thereafter. Had any other villain, say toyman, brainwashed Superman in that manner it would have been just as great. I wasn't impressed with the beatdown.

"Twilight." For all the flack "War World" gets, I think I would sooner sit down and rewatch that than "Twilight." Twilight is the most boring episode of the DCAU ever. Batman and Wonderwoman go to find that one guy. You'd think this would be a good opportunity to play up their romantic tension. It didn't happen. You'd think that subplot would actually go somewhere. It didn't. Ooh, and Superman's pissed. yeah, like he'd ever do anything mildly edgy. The worst thing about that episode is that it sullied the reputation of one of my favorite Superman villain, Brainiac in the process. That episode is the one, and only episode in the whole DCAU I've ever watched just once and never wanted to see again. horrible.

[Anon190]

While I'm quite sure that on here, Betrothed was shot down just as much as, oh, I don't know, This Little Piggy, but on the other forum I go to, it's claimed as one of the best episodes EVAR. With the purposeful misspelling.

It had bad animation, and very many wasted opportunities. I HATE IT. Grargh.

[Lunchbox]

"Heart of Ice" made me scratch my head. How'd it get an Emmy? Was 1992 really that bad a year? Sure, Mr. Freeze as a character was great...until he did things. His story? Nice. His crimes and conflict with Batman? The guy lost to chicken soup. Not to mention his stupid briefs.

[Ian]

The Return, definitively. It's a short 8-minute story about an android seeking his "father" in order to understand life, expanded to twenty minutes by adding a some twenty superflous superheroes, some false drama, and reducing the IQ of everyone involved except for Lex's. It's the one story I really hate, in part because of the positive response it gets everywhere.


Not hated, but really shouldn't be getting as much acclaim as they do.

Heart of Ice: It's a good story, but not the standart-setter people claim it is. If it had been made now, I doubt it would have gotten the same response it did back then.

[TheScarecrow]

Heart of Ice: It's a good story, but not the standart-setter people claim it is. If it had been made now, I doubt it would have gotten the same response it did back then.
So what is the standard-setter in your eyes than?

[Ian]

If I were to pick a "standart-setter", (an idea I'm not too comfortable with), I'd say either the "Two-Face" two-parter or "The Joker's Favor". It's got the dark psychological undertones, it makes a better job of making the anti-hero sympathetic, and the fact that this was Harvey Dent, a guy we sort-of knew from past episodes makes it better than "Heart of Ice", in my opinion. "The Joker's Favor" is a neat little story which really established the tone they'd take with the characters.

[Fone Bone]

Heart of Ice IS a little bit dated but I would hardly call it an episode worth "hating".

As for another overrated episode I will also go with Over the Edge. Sure, it was cool the first time I saw it but once you know the trick ending it has limited replay value. Again, I don't HATE it per say, but it does get a lot of unwarranted love.

[Conekiller]

I'm not sure it it's loved or not, but the olllld BTAS ep where Batman fights the guy in the sewers who ocntrols little kids and crocodiles was dumb. I understand why it was supposed to be dramatic, what with the "using" of the kids and all, but it all felt so ...silly.

[DLM]

I wouldn't say I HATED it but "A Better World" is by far the most overrated JL episode in my opinion. Theres a whole lot of plot holes that mar this episode. It gets big points for the Arkham Asylum scenes, Flash's heart trick and to a lesser extent the Batman/Batman exchange. But there were alot of flaws too. I think it averages out to a good, but not great pair of episodes.

[Ian]

I'm not sure it it's loved or not, but the olllld BTAS ep where Batman fights the guy in the sewers who ocntrols little kids and crocodiles was dumb. I understand why it was supposed to be dramatic, what with the "using" of the kids and all, but it all felt so ...silly.
I don't think that episode is loved--it's ridiculed in some circles, although I don't know how big that circle is. In any case, I feel the opossite way. It's much less offensive than that particular writer's other episode, "I've got Batman in my Basement".

[Carrieattheprom]

BUMP!

Newbies post and any old members who have something new to say. Having seen Almost Got 'Im on DVD I have to say it's not nearly as cool as I remember. Ivy's pumkin plot was dumb, and I thought the whole fact that the bar had been filled with cops the whole time was a little silly.

[Batman Fan]

B:TAS- I am the Night, Demon's Quest, A Bullet for Bullock, The Clock King (some like it, some don't, I don't), Make Em Laugh

TNBA- Legends of the Dark Knight

JL: Hereafter, A Better World

JLU: The Return, For the Man Who Has Everything

[gusdlt]

Every Superman TAS episode (except World's Finest, Knight Time, The Demon Reborn and the episodes that featured Super Girl and Mr. Mxysptlk) I completely hate Superman! (except for Smallville, kind of a better plot development)

[Carrieattheprom]

BUMP!!!!

Newbies have your say!

[karasu]

The episode when Amazo returned and took out every member of the team by blinking his eyes. Talk about your ill concieved characters. Nanotech can not do EVERYTHING. His abilities go far outside those of sci fi and your everyday superhero story. You may as well create a lollipop that can mimic the light of the sun. That episode is why I am forever skeptical of the show. Its given me a couple of the best treatments of these characters I've ever seen, but it's also given me the worst one ever, and it happened in the Amazo episode. It's worst than any comic, or superhero movie I've ever seen. Worst than when Gambit killed Colossus with a stack of playing cards @_@

I dislike Epilogue as well. It didn't have anything to do with anything IMO. Batman Beyond? So what. That was cancelled years ago, I don't care about that. People around here say it was a perfect finale and that just boggles my mind in every concievable way. They intended to wrap up The Justice League with a story about a part time member, his successor, and a former villian? Uh.. Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash. Remember them? The full time members of the team? Shouldn't the series wrap up or epilogue involve them in some way? Epilogue is like an whacked out episode of The Maury Povich show. And once again with the nanotech.

[MrBananagrabber]

I dislike Epilogue as well. It didn't have anything to do with anything IMO. Batman Beyond? So what. That was cancelled years ago, I don't care about that. People around here say it was a perfect finale and that just boggles my mind in every concievable way. They intended to wrap up The Justice League with a story about a part time member, his successor, and a former villian? Uh.. Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash. Remember them? The full time members of the team? Shouldn't the series wrap up or epilogue involve them in some way? Epilogue is like an whacked out episode of The Maury Povich show. And once again with the nanotech.
I agree wholeheartedly. I reallydidn't like that episode. The whole thing just seemed so contrived and didn't do anything for me but cheapen the entire Batman Beyond series. It seemed like too much of a "yay, fanservice!" sort of thing, which isn't a bad thing, per se (though not my cup of tea), but I just don't think it was done well at all. Showing Phantasm for a half a second and other such throwbacks becomes meaningless when they have absolutely nothing to do with the story. And it certainly doesn't help when the entire crazy "You're my Clone-Son sorta!" story comes out of left field.

I've been rewatching BTAS thanks to Netflix. I don't really understand people's love for the "I Am the Night" episode, or "Harlequinade" but to each his own. See, personally, I don't like Batman's side kicks, they just seem to take that darker, film noir edge completely out of the show. So usually the episodes that feature them are significantly less entertaining for me. Same with the character design changes, they really take away so much of the mood.

Also, the Sub Zero movie was incredibly dull and felt like a stretched out episode, I'm surprised it gets so much praise.

[Furious Nick]

I would have to say that the episode that is loved by many, and despised by me is the "Doom's Day Sanction." Don't get me wrong, I am all for ongoin plot development, and good smack downs are always appreciated .... but just did not think this episode was anything special.

Really I never thought that Doom'sDay was all that menacing in print, and I feel that he is even less threatening on tv. I always thought of Doom'sDay as being tool. When you lack a really good rogue in your story, insert Generic Muscle bound menace here. To be fair though, I hate anything Bane related as well. Despite several friends and associates attempts to convince me that Bane & Doom'sDay are legitimate villians with great depth and character, I just do not see it. I firmly believe that these two goons were manufactured to simply end far better characters in some haphazard slash & burn attempt at revitalization of Icons..... but I digress.

I do still enjoy the Cadmus arc, but I feel that the DD Sanction was a low point. The only redeeming quality about this episode to me was the Milo/DD interaction. I was surprised that they were able to get away with that. Also, I like how they explained the events we saw in "A Better World."

[Jade_GL]

Boy I am going to get raked over the coals for this one I bet, but I know I am not the only one.... :)

Fearful Symmetry

Yes, I didn't like it. I wouldn't say I hated it, but I didn't like it. I felt like it was a great idea, great pieces, but the whole episode was just sorely lacking to me. I haven't watched it in quite some time, but the only thing I really loved about it was that it was the genesis of a great arc. Other than that, it just seemed like a bunch of good ideas stitched together into a whole episode that didn't quite work.

Again, I didn't hate it (I haven't hated any JLU or JL episodes) but I certainly was only one of the dissenting voices in the talkback thread.

[Batman Fan]

Looking back, a lot I said I didn't like I like now. Demon's Quest and Bullet for Bullock have grown on me a lot. And I really like A Better World.

Some new ones: Heart of Steel, Avatar, Bane, Showdown, the Apokolips arc in Superman is overrated, and Comfort and Joy.

[Mr.E]

Maid of Honor
Wild Cards
This Little Piggy
The Greatest Story Never Told
People hate wild cards ?

[ryeck]

People hate wild cards ?I do. I just thought that the least thing that was needed was another Batman/Joker confrontation, but that's exactly what we got. . To me, the whole story was just to set up yet another Batman-Joker showdown :rolleyes:
Boy, way to really develop characters and tell new stories. I don't care that Joker had the RFG to take on the League, if his whole essence is his obsession with Batman, why challenge the rest of the League? Oh, and I thought Harley's inclusion was completely pointless.
Anyway, I sure hope all you Joker and Harley fans enjoyed this episode, seeing as how it's likely the final appearance of them in the DCAU due to the "dreaded" Bat-embargo :D :p

Basically, the story aside from the Hawkgirl-Green Lantern "moment" was pointless and not very good.

[Death58]

I used to like 'Heart of Ice', but not so much anymore. . .I dunno why. I'd have to say the one episode I hate most of any DCAU episode is probably Part II and III of 'The Last Son of Krypton' in Superman: The Animated Series. The first part was awesome, but the story degenerated into a boring slug fest. . .sad really. Also, I didn't like the episode 'X' in Teen Titans, which is the episode I like least of all Teen Titans episodes(even worse than Car Trouble). I left the eppy more confused than when I went into it.

[Style]

The Cadmus arc as a whole. The whole thing seemed dreary.Not to mention it copped out like there was no tommorrow.

[Ian]

Ditto. With Cadmus, it's like the writers said, "You know what would be cool?" and then proceeded to make a story about it, all the while disregarding things like consistency, or logic, or making sense. It's a big, big mess, and the fact that its generally praised makes me like it even less.

[Southern Dandy]

I'd have to say the one episode I hate most of any DCAU episode is probably Part II and III of 'The Last Son of Krypton' in Superman: The Animated Series. The first part was awesome, but the story degenerated into a boring slug fest.

Wow. I guess I should be grateful that when I rented Superman: The Animated Series Volume 1 on DVD, I never got to see those two episodes because the DVD was damaged just enough so that they were they only episodes that couldn't be watched. :)

[JLfan4life]

Epilogue, The Once and Future Thing Part 2 and I forgot about Demon Reborn...man that episode sucked!!

[ROBOTRON]

The pig episode...hated it.

Once and Future thing wasn't that good either...the villian absolutely sucked.

[Mr.E]

I do. I just thought that the least thing that was needed was another Batman/Joker confrontation, but that's exactly what we got. . To me, the whole story was just to set up yet another Batman-Joker showdown :rolleyes:
Really ? Iam shocked Bruce Timm whould do such a thing.



Boy, way to really develop characters and tell new stories. I don't care that Joker had the RFG to take on the League, if his whole essence is his obsession with Batman, why challenge the rest of the League?
The point was to get people as many people to watch so Ace can screw up peoples' minds, he said the JL was there to "bring in the star power".



Oh, and I thought Harley's inclusion was completely pointless.
Anyway, I sure hope all you Joker and Harley fans enjoyed this episode, seeing as how it's likely the final appearance of them in the DCAU due to the "dreaded" Bat-embargo :D :p
My "Hate-O-Meter" is going off....


Basically, the story aside from the Hawkgirl-Green Lantern "moment" was pointless and not very good.
I admit the episode was little dry, but the Joker-Batman fight was the icing on the cake.

[ryeck]

Really ? Iam shocked Bruce Timm whould do such a thing.



The point was to get people as many people to watch so Ace can screw up peoples' minds, he said the JL was there to "bring in the star power".



My "Hate-O-Meter" is going off....


I admit the episode was little dry, but the Joker-Batman fight was the icing on the cake.
Gee, I'm sorry I set off your "Hate-O-Meter" :rolleyes: . Just because I do not drool over every Batman/Joker confrontation and found this story extremely weak does not make my opinion of it any less valid. Maybe the fact that I don't see things through rose-colored glasses and look at things objectively is what separates my opinion from those of the masses. Bottom line. Just because the episode featured another Batman/Joker showdown doesn not automatically make it great. Have a good story to back it up.

[Kinel Ozoa]

I do. I just thought that the least thing that was needed was another Batman/Joker confrontation, but that's exactly what we got. . To me, the whole story was just to set up yet another Batman-Joker showdown :rolleyes:
Boy, way to really develop characters and tell new stories. I don't care that Joker had the RFG to take on the League, if his whole essence is his obsession with Batman, why challenge the rest of the League? Oh, and I thought Harley's inclusion was completely pointless.
Anyway, I sure hope all you Joker and Harley fans enjoyed this episode, seeing as how it's likely the final appearance of them in the DCAU due to the "dreaded" Bat-embargo :D :p

Basically, the story aside from the Hawkgirl-Green Lantern "moment" was pointless and not very good.

So your saying you didn't like all the episode's where Supes and the League was put up against villains from his rouge gallery as well? If I recall correctly we see Joker twice in Justice League. However Luthor is around enough to probably be considered a co-star.

One could say most of JLU riding up to Divided we Fall was just a set up for another Superman/Luthor showdown. Personally I find it nice occasionally to see some old characters mixed in with some new ones. It's not like it was Joker taking on the whole League. Some interesting characters were thrown in there. Each getting their own moment, A welcome break from the norm before everything went screwy in starcrossed. :D

But the thread about episodes I liked is elsewhere. I shouldn't really be debating other people's choices. Just making conversation.

Most the episodes I didn't like are really already here. just to have this post on-topic though:

Enemy Below: Probably the most boring JL I've watched. Aquaman wasn't even that likable of a character.

Injustice for all: Just seemed to be thrown together. Really just made Luthor out to be a petty baby. I thought he was supposed to have class?

Really quite a few of the earlier episodes were un enjoyable on some level except for a select few. but I'm really not that picky that I couldn't sit back and find something good in most of em.

[fantastic 7]

Epilogue-I hate that they skipped ahead like that mainly because I don't like Batman Beyond...at all. No offense, but Batman dies with Bruce Wayne in my view.

The greatest story never told-there is a reason it is never told...who the hell is Booster Gold!! I just don't like him.

Mother May Eye-I don't hate it, but it was disappointing. No match for Mad Mod

[Mr.E]

Gee, I'm sorry I set off your "Hate-O-Meter" :rolleyes: . Just because I do not drool over every Batman/Joker confrontation and found this story extremely weak does not make my opinion of it any less valid.
I said that because you mocked people who do like Joker and Harley by those icons you placed at the end your statement about them most likely not appearing in the show.



Maybe the fact that I don't see things through rose-colored glasses and look at things objectively is what separates my opinion from those of the masses.
Well, heres another TZ member thinking that there better then everyone else.



Bottom line. Just because the episode featured another Batman/Joker showdown doesn not automatically make it great. Have a good story to back it up.
Did I say it was great ?

[Southern Dandy]

I don't much like "Epilogue" either, but I understand that it was made under the assumption that it may possibly be the last episode in "Bruce Timm's DC Animated Universe", and therefore needed to tie up all the loose ends from Batman Beyond. However, as a fan of Justice League who never watched Batman Beyond, I didn't get all the references or really appreciate how it connected to Batman Beyond continuity, so it was a disappointing Justice League Unlimited finale. I didn't like how the Justice League Unlimited finale had very little to do with the members of the Justice League. The reference to "On Leather Wings" at the end was cute, though. :)

[DeathscytheVII]

Epilogue - I liked the episode, but not as much as other people praise it. To me, the fact that Terry is Bruce's son kinda takes away from episodes like "Rebirth" and other BB eps. I know the message that they are trying to get across, that it changes nothing about Terry, but i still can't shake off this feeling that Terry got the mantle of batman because of hereditary, not because he earned it. (again, im sure there are going to be lots of in depth explanations to prove me wrong, but thats the impression i can't shake off even after reading those.) It was a shocking development to be sure, but it really served no purpose other than to make an episode disproving it, not to mention convolute everything we knew in Batman Beyond. Was there a point? Did we really need the answer to a question we already know? that Terry is worthy of being batman?

Divided We fall While a great episode, (with the lovely surprise ending at the end of Panic in the Sky), i still can't help but feel some disappointment at how the government conspiracy ends. Just when the world is starting to quesiton the morality of the league, a supervillain conveniently pops in (in a rather awesome way) i admit, and solves the problem instantly. I dunno, i just didn't get that feeling of satisfaction considering how complex, long and well-thought out the build up was, and now all that tension just vanishes just like that? It just doesn't feel right.

[Carrieattheprom]

Bump! Anybody have anything new to say?

[Jor-El]

Harlequinade
Harley & Ivy
Anything where Harley Quinn appears as a main character

Knight in Shadows
Terror Beyond (no that death scene was NOT touching)
Wild Cards (just because you get to see Joker in an episode of Justice League doesn't make it a good episode.)
Kid Stuff
This Little Piggy (you honestly thought Batman singing was cool?)
Once and Future Thing (I will admit seeing Hal and Chronos was cool, and that was it)
Epilogue (we had to go and ruin Batman Beyond by making Terry some stupid Bruce clone?)

[jv2k]

For me the episode I disliked that everyone loves is epilogue. I loved batman beyond, but this episode was pointless.
The first problem I had with the episode was the confusing format, with flashbacks(or were they what if flash backs I forget) sprinkled throughout the episode I wasn't really sure whats going on, it should have been more straight foward with them. That starting off with a bunch of flash backs works on paper, but on screen its just not good. My second problem was Terry being bruces son, what did it do? For me it cheapened the character a bit(yea, Terry has Bruce's genes flowing through his viens being batman is in the blood) I liked him better when he was not related. Then the episode ended showing that he just turned out that way by chance, and that the episode had acomplished nothing aside from going "oh look Terry is Bruce's son and guess what, ya know that bat embargo LOOK the phantasm and a bunch of Terry's rogues!". The only thing I liked about the episode was the grown up Terry character model, the scene with Ace, and the end which mimmicked On leather wings opening. I am glad JLU didn't end with it.

[Binker]

Mudslide sucked. I wanted to beat the **** outta Batman SO much in that.

[Kolbar]

These are just some of the top ones and I'm one who usually likes everything. There's some more that I haven't listed also.

For the Man Who Has Everything - I hate Mongul but I thought even his appearance in War World was a lot better than this ep. I can't see the appeal of this episode. Another thing is that they shouldn't have used a villains from the past so soon. That's one thing I hated with the first few eps of JLU.

Legends of the Dark Knight - I can't stand this episode. It's HORRIBLE! Besides Firefly's little cameo part I can't even bear to watch it. The little kids' perspective of what Batman is like is something I could have done without.

Where There's Smoke - Volcana was terrible here seeing how well she was used with Firefly in JL. This episode is just another one of those unbearable ones. A stupid plot and bad writing.

Growing Pains - I like Clayface but this episode I didn't. The whole plot with Robin and Annie or whatever her name was, was boring and a bad way to bring back Clayface from Holiday Knights.

[Link]

Hmm...

Cold Comfort - Did they have to go ahead and make Mr. Freeze a freakin' HEAD?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Plus, Freeze had such an interesting arc in BTAS. They just ruined him completely in this episode.

Once and Future Thing Part 2: Time, Warped - This was completely absurd. Time pollution, WW disappearing out of no where, Hal Jordon suddenly showing up, a stupid ending = a pointless and annoying episode.

Return - Well, I wouldn't say hate. But it's definitely a little too rushed and not as good as people think it is.


I do. I just thought that the least thing that was needed was another Batman/Joker confrontation, but that's exactly what we got. . To me, the whole story was just to set up yet another Batman-Joker showdown :rolleyes:
Why are you so biased to hating every little thing in Batman's universe? Superman's had plenty of development and fights with his enemies in STAS, but you certainly don't seem to complain about all their overwhelming screentime in JL/U one little bit.


Boy, way to really develop characters and tell new stories. I don't care that Joker had the RFG to take on the League, if his whole essence is his obsession with Batman, why challenge the rest of the League? Oh, and I thought Harley's inclusion was completely pointless.
If Superman's universe is gonna be given so much screentime in JL/U, Batman's deserves a little bit too. I actually much prefer seeing old faces to seeing new faces because the old ones have evolved and grown on me by other shows.


Anyway, I sure hope all you Joker and Harley fans enjoyed this episode, seeing as how it's likely the final appearance of them in the DCAU due to the "dreaded" Bat-embargo :D :p
Hopefully that new Superman show comes in soon so it can take away all of Superman's Villians too.


Basically, the story aside from the Hawkgirl-Green Lantern "moment" was pointless and not very good.
Well, Wild Cards is certainly not my favorite episode by any means, but it's definitely no where on my hate list either. Joker's antics were awesome, though.


Gee, I'm sorry I set off your "Hate-O-Meter" images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . Just because I do not drool over every Batman/Joker confrontation and found this story extremely weak does not make my opinion of it any less valid. Maybe the fact that I don't see things through rose-colored glasses and look at things objectively is what separates my opinion from those of the masses. Bottom line. Just because the episode featured another Batman/Joker showdown doesn not automatically make it great. Have a good story to back it up.
So you're basically just saying that you think anyone who likes that episode has a blank vision? I respect your disliking of the episode (as it's not quite my favorite either), but that was pretty harsh.

[Darknight66]

The Laughing fish - this episode just seemed wierd and badly animated to me

Old Wounds - I though the "ruthless" batman in the flashback , seemed forced and over the top , when has batman ever been that bad before ?

[James]

I'm surprised I never responded to this..

"If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?' It just felt utterly out of place, more fitting with Adam West's tenure. The whole thing felt over the top and stupid. The animation was noticably poor in areas. Very poor.

"Savage Time" - I sometimes wonder if it hadn't got that pan when Barbara and Dick are kissing, whether it would be consider quite the smash it is. It wasn't bad, but at the time it was treated like a slice of heaven. It felt overlong and a dash too much historical pulp, which I think any intelligent cartoon should avoid, even if it mimics the style of many poor comic tales.

The upsider was - surprisingly - the Wonder Woman subplot which was tastefully handled. The rest seemed stretched to the point of snappage. Not terrible by far, but not the woahfest I expected based on general reaction.