The Popeye Show - 11/19/01

[Brian Cruz]

"Can You Take It" (B&W, 04/27/34)
"Me Musical Nephews" (B&W, 12/25/42)
"Olive Oyl for President" (Color, 01/30/48)

[J Lee]

Considering all the posts on the board this weekend comparing B&W and color Looney Tunes, showing "Me Musical Nephews" tonight and then doing the comparison with "Riot in Rhythm" was pretty appropriate.

Also, they did dub in the wrong opening music on "Olive Oyl for President" which is why there was so much dead air during the opening of that cartoon. Still, the print looked better than the one with original titles CN normally runs...

[Argus Sventon]

Another great episode. However, the Paramount logos on "Can You Take It" were from "The Jeep".

"Olive Oyl for President" has to be my favorite color Popeye. I'm pleased that they mentioned the cameo by Little Audrey in that cartoon.

[Larry T]

I've always really liked that cartoon.... I especially enjoy showing it to people who carry on about some preposterous notion that cartoons are sexist and biased towards the desires of men. :p

Plus, it's funny.

[Bum]

Originally posted by J Lee
Considering all the posts on the board this weekend comparing B&W and color Looney Tunes, showing "Me Musical Nephews" tonight and then doing the comparison with "Riot in Rhythm" was pretty appropriate.

Also, they did dub in the wrong opening music on "Olive Oyl for President" which is why there was so much dead air during the opening of that cartoon. Still, the print looked better than the one with original titles CN normally runs...

After two episodes, it's much more apparant that CN has just tacked on the Paramount opening & closing logos to AAP prints, as opposed to showing actual complete original prints [which I suspect don't exist anymmore]. Still, it's cool that they've managed to enearth some previously unseen things, like the '42-43 Famous titles from last night. I STILL remain in suspense as to how "Me Musical Nephews" orginally ends [as the camera pulls away from the movie screen]; I'm sure it's something other than simply fading to the the Paramount mountain, as was shown on the "restored" version last night...

[Bum]

Also.... did anyone besides me get their hopes up when this episode began with a scene from one of the color two-reelers? That wasn't shown in the opening last week, was it?

[Argus Sventon]

Originally posted by Bum


After two episodes, it's much more apparant that CN has just tacked on the Paramount opening & closing logos to AAP prints, as opposed to showing actual complete original prints [which I suspect don't exist anymmore]. Still, it's cool that they've managed to enearth some previously unseen things, like the '42-43 Famous titles from last night. I STILL remain in suspense as to how "Me Musical Nephews" orginally ends [as the camera pulls away from the movie screen]; I'm sure it's something other than simply fading to the the Paramount mountain, as was shown on the "restored" version last night...

They're trying. I suspect the only people who would really be able to assist CN in restoring the titles are long since dead. A pity that AAP didn't ask Seymour Kneitel to help them catalog the Paramount Popeye cartoons, like Clampett did with the WB cartoons.

[Nelson]

Great show again last night, but I almost got excited when they showed a clip of "Spinach For Britain", and I thought they were going to show that cartoon on the show.

[J Lee]

I STILL remain in suspense as to how "Me Musical Nephews" orginally ends [as the camera pulls away from the movie screen]; I'm sure it's something other than simply fading to the the Paramount mountain, as was shown on the "restored" version last night...

I've always suspected that the ending Paramount logo appeared on the movie screen behind Popeye's nephews (and I think the same hold true for the ending to "The Hungry Goat"). But there's no way to know for sure, and going in the other direction against my hypothesis, the animation on the characters during the fade was shown for a longer time than on the old AAP prints, and AAP was pretty meticulous about cutting right before or right after the Paramount logo appeared or disappeared.

[lislebartman]

Huh!

Now I'll have "Me Musical Nephews" with both the AAP titles and the Paramount titles...interesting....

Should make for a nice night of cartoon viewing... :D

[Thad Komorowski]

Pretty nice show last night. Interesting how they pointed out Little Audrey's cameo in "Olive Oil for President", and how she's a Harvey character...


-Thad

[Argus Sventon]

Originally posted by Thad Komorowski
Pretty nice show last night. Interesting how they pointed out Little Audrey's cameo in "Olive Oil for President", and how she's a Harvey character...


-Thad

When "Olive Oyl For President" was released, Little Audrey had appeared in only one other cartoon, Santa's Surprise. Her next cartoon would be "Butterscotch and Soda", which features a character similar to one featured in several Tom and Jerry cartoons.

I'm surprised that they also didn't mention the hairstyle change in Olive as well as the introduction of color.

[J Lee]

Olive's old hairstyle hung around for about two years into the color Popeye series. IIRC, the new hairstyle debuted during her brief appearance at the start of Bill Tytla's "Rocket to Mars" from 1946.

One thing I did think they would mention last night was that "Olive Oyl for President" was a semi-remake of the 1932 Fleischer cartoon "Betty
Boop for President," with Mae Questel vocing both characters (though in the latter Betty only said "If I were president" before the dissolve to the gags about her political plans, while Olive gets an entire musical number to go along with the gags).

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Bum


After two episodes, it's much more apparant that CN has just tacked on the Paramount opening & closing logos to AAP prints, as opposed to showing actual complete original prints [which I suspect don't exist anymmore]. Still, it's cool that they've managed to enearth some previously unseen things, like the '42-43 Famous titles from last night. I STILL remain in suspense as to how "Me Musical Nephews" orginally ends [as the camera pulls away from the movie screen]; I'm sure it's something other than simply fading to the the Paramount mountain, as was shown on the "restored" version last night...


What they should do is strike a new print of "Riot in Rhythm" and use it as a guide to recreate the original ending of "Me Musical Nephews". But after seeing clips from the same old faded print of the Sindbad two-reeler last night, I'm losing faith in thinking I'd finally get to see new prints of the Technicolor cartoons.

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by J Lee
Olive's old hairstyle hung around for about two years into the color Popeye series. IIRC, the new hairstyle debuted during her brief appearance at the start of Bill Tytla's "Rocket to Mars" from 1946.


No, Olive's new look first appeared in the last release of 1945, "Mess Production". The second appearance was the title card of "Service with a Guile", even though the old design (except the shoes) was used in the cartoon itself.

[J Lee]

If it first showed up in "Mess Production," than Olive's hairstyle advanced in the same haphazard way the Bluto redesign did at Famous during the 1940s -- now it's here, now it's gone, until they finally standardized the model sheets around the beginning of 1946.

[Argus Sventon]

Originally posted by J Lee
Also, they did dub in the wrong opening music on "Olive Oyl for President" which is why there was so much dead air during the opening of that cartoon. Still, the print looked better than the one with original titles CN normally runs...

Those were the same titles from the 1988 restored version, which had the same music as the aap openings, but the music was definitely different.

[Vdubdavid]

Is anyone else besides me beginning to think that CN is trying to gyp us with these endings?

[J Lee]

Well, unless there's an origina print available (more likely on the color Popeyes than on the B&Ws) its tough for CN to do much more than try and create their own ending as well as possible.

The Turner people did restore the ending to "Alpine for You," which was always cut in the AAP version, and from looking at Jerry Beck's website, it's clear there is a print out there of "Popeye, the Ace of Space," with it's original opening and closing.

As for some of the others, like "The Hungry Goat," "Customers Wanted," "Hello, How Am I?" and a few more that have their own unique openings or closings, we'll just have to see if CN can find original prints, or if they'll have to improvise.

[Dave Mackey]

Nobody mentioned this, but shouldn't have "Can You Take It" ended with the "Inkwell" closing title? Or was that for the 1933 Popeyes only?

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Dave Mackey
Nobody mentioned this, but shouldn't have "Can You Take It" ended with the "Inkwell" closing title? Or was that for the 1933 Popeyes only?



I think only the first 2 1934 Popeyes had the inkwell ending. You can see part of it before they cut to the aap end title card on the aap prints. The rest of the 1934 Popeyes either iris-out to black or fade to black. But there may be Betty Boop cartoons that prove me wrong.

[J Lee]

The inkwell ending was only for the first handful of Popeyes. The AAP version of "Can You Take It?" always ended with a dissolve to black (no iris out) and then the closing AAP logo, so that part didn't change on Sunday's show.

However, I always thought the anchor title card ending didn't begin until the first release of the 1935 season -- "Beware of Barnacle Bill" is the earliest one the anchor ending could be found in the AAP versions -- but maybe not. You'd have to have seen an original print from 1934 before this past Sunday to be sure, and I haven't.

[Randy Watts]

<< Is anyone else besides me beginning to think that CN is trying to gyp us with these endings? >>

I'm sure they're doing the best they can under the circumstances. The problem with black & white cartoons is that it was all too easy for the new owners of the films (like A.A.P.) to make their changes to the main and end titles on the original negatives and/or fine grains. For their purposes, that was fine, but it now deprives Warner from being able to simply strike a new print with original titles intact.

Fortunately, doing the same thing to Technicolor negatives was usually too bothersome (and expensive) for outfits like A.A.P. to bother with, so full Technicolor restorations of those cartoons is possible, providing that the original materials still exist and that Warner eventually decides to cough up the dough to pay for it.

--Randy