Why all the bishounen hate?

[Invader_Spooch]

I was enjoying an episode of Weiss Kreuz with my fiance the other day, and was just pondering as to why there is so much animosity towards bishonen anime. Being a huge Saiyuki fan, I from there started watching Weiss Kreuz and Weiss Kreuz Gluhen. I really don't get why these shows are hated so, and why there aren't more of them.

On one hand, I can see why your average male anime viewer would shut their minds off when they see no abundant T & A, and the fact that all the main guys are hot, but there is some good character development and entertaining writing to be had (not to mention plenty of action and comedy).

Anyhow, to the topic at hand; what do you think of the genre as a whole? Do you like it or loathe it? I would like to hear some reasons on both sides.

[Beat]

Jealously?

Or maybe that many of them make no qualms about completely alienating the male audience, while bringing in females.

[Razor]

I don't hate bishounen, I dislike their fangirls.

[Zero Angel]

I don't hate bishounen, I dislike their fangirls.
seconded.

it isnt really the bishounen animes or those types of characters that i hate. it is the blatant, glomping, sign wearing fangirls that annoy me.

[Conan-san]

Some are just arrogent arse wipes who, due to a few social/emotional problems think that they rule the world and know everything, often ridiculing regualr, workaday heros.

Sasuke (naruto), Chaud/Enzan (Rockman.exe), Herro Yui (Gundam Wing), The three lights (Sailor Moon Stars) (!), Ren (Shaman King)..I could go on for hours, realy.

[Keldran]

My personal dislike of them has to do with the tendency to draw them pretty without making them solid, fleshed out characters. Many many many bishounen are unoriginal stereotypes (the badass fighter, the quiet one, the smartest kid in school, etc etc) and when you gather several together you tend to see how blatent this can be. Of course there are many exceptions to this rule but bishounen have to go out of their way to convince me they are a well developed character. I don't care if it's a guy or girl being animated, but style shouldn't come before substance (unless it's really awesome style like Bebop or Champloo).

[Razor]

Sasuke (naruto), Chaud/Enzan (Rockman.exe), Herro Yui (Gundam Wing), The three lights (Sailor Moon Stars) (!), Ren (Shaman King)..I could go on for hours, realy.To be fair, Chaud's gotten a lot better. Nowadays, he's not really any more combative than Lan is.

[Lord Dalek]

It's not really the bishounen's fault that we hate their shows. It's just that the shows (especially in the case of WK) suck.

[Invader_Spooch]

It's not really the bishounen's fault that we hate their shows. It's just that the shows (especially in the case of WK) suck.
I can always count on you LD for thought-provoking, unbiased nuggets of wisdom. :rolleyes:

[MrBananagrabber]

I can always count on you LD for thought-provoking, unbiased nuggets of wisdom. :rolleyes:
I've got a pretty open mind, but WK is just not a good show. I'll admit, though, in the first episode the van flyin off the side of the highway and crushing Motorcycle Boy was comedic gold. I just can't take the show seriously.

[Invader_Spooch]

While I in no way defend WK as a "good show" I don't think it was bad either. Mediocre, yes, but way better than most anime drek that gets pumped out the woodwork.

A bit cheesy at times, but I really don't see what it did that makes it worse than your typical shonen or shojo anime (with mediocre writing, bland vocal performances, and formulaic plot).

[Zechs]

I think for it's the fan girls who can be a pain for others it's the lack of story line. I like bishounen myself but I tend to watch the ones with a fairly good story. I don't care how cute the guy is if the story sucks I won't watch. There are bishounen I like but don't read the stoies be cause they suck. But some girls (fan girls) will rant and rave about a crappy show like it's the best thing ever. Just like some fan boys will rant about a show just because the chicks are hot no matter how much said show sucks.

[Zero Angel]

I think for it's the fan girls who can be a pain for others it's the lack of story line. I like bishounen myself but I tend to watch the ones with a fairly good story. I don't care how cute the guy is if the story sucks I won't watch. There are bishounen I like but don't read the stoies be cause they suck. But some girls (fan girls) will rant and rave about a crappy show like it's the best thing ever. Just like some fan boys will rant about a show just because the chicks are hot no matter how much said show sucks.
the same could be said of any fanboy/girl in regards to hanging onto a show as the 'Best'. it just so happens that this falls on a bishonen conversation.

as for WK, i gave it a shot. maybe not a serious shot, but i gave it one. same thing with Sayuki. both had alot of the same fallings though. the action wasnt very good, the characters were more cliche's then anything else and the eye candy was not designed for a male audience (i know that they were, for the most part, designed for females). all three of these equal into works that i dont want to see.

i like some bishonens on other shows (Sasuke/Neiji, Vahn, Kenshin) but because of my taste in art (come on...im a fanboy to the hardcore) it is ussually the character interaction or backstory or conflicts that draw me in. in order for any anime to really get to me it needs to have a good plotline or good hook to catch me. bishonen style anime very rarely has that in enough abundance to really get my attention.

then again...there are the issues with the fan-girls...

[Lord Dalek]

I can always count on you LD for thought-provoking, unbiased nuggets of wisdom. :rolleyes:What? You've seen Gluhen?

[Lachesis]

What? You've seen Gluhen?

*Hated* the ending. Hated, hated, HATED it.

[Czar Gato]

My personal dislike of them has to do with the tendency to draw them pretty without making them solid, fleshed out characters. Many many many bishounen are unoriginal stereotypes (the badass fighter, the quiet one, the smartest kid in school, etc etc) and when you gather several together you tend to see how blatent this can be. Of course there are many exceptions to this rule but bishounen have to go out of their way to convince me they are a well developed character. I don't care if it's a guy or girl being animated, but style shouldn't come before substance (unless it's really awesome style like Bebop or Champloo).Agreed, althiough I don't really dislike bishounen; I just don't care forthem much, either, for the reasons Keldran named.

[Conan-san]

I also hate how people seem to confuse the token bishonen as the main chracter of the sereis.

I swear, sometimes, I end up thinking that the show's called "Sasuke" as apposed to "Naruto"...

[Duke]

I swear, sometimes, I end up thinking that the show's called "Sasuke" as apposed to "Naruto"...
Never mind that Sasuke hasn't been featured much since the Chuunin Exam (except with Naruto).Or the fact that Naruto became a lot stronger than Sasuke after the Chuunin Exam.

[GWOtaku]

I don't love or hate it in particular. Some are good, some are not. X TV is full of bishonen and I love that show, Fushigi Yugi has no lack of them and its overall one of the more disappointing shows I've ever watched.

[Invader_Spooch]

While the intent of this thread was discussion of bishonen anime (Weiss Kreuz, Saiyuki etc.), the response is indeed interesting.. :sweat:

[Weatherman]

I'm going to lump my opinion in whith those who said "It's not necessarily the bishounen themselves, it's their fan girls". The sheer volume of squeeling, yaoi-happy under-aged or nearly so fan girls of late is really getting old. Not every show MUST feature two or more long-haired guys that are oh so perfect for someone's misguided fantasy life. Same goes for guys and animated girls. The bishounen just tend to stick out alot more as their fans are alot louder.

Interesting that you mention Weis Kreutz and Sayuki in the same contect as I thought that Saiyuki, while by no means a great or even good show, was miles ahead of the complete disaster of a seiyu vanity project that was Weis Kreutz. WS epecialyl cemented alot of people's dislike/out right hatred of bishounen as they were the only selling point it had to offer. The animation was of a low enough quality to make most hentai look good, the stories were generic half-baked copies of stuff that had been done alot better before and the whole show in general felt like the cop-out/sell-out it was. Saiyuki at least has the benefit of a much improved animation budget and some extra balence in the cast. Maybe if WS wasn't so revered by some people, bishounen would have a tleast a slight better reputation. Just my 2 cents.
*tosses a few pennies on the table*:gir:

[noahrave]

I've got a pretty open mind, but WK is just not a good show. I'll admit, though, in the first episode the van flyin off the side of the highway and crushing Motorcycle Boy was comedic gold. I just can't take the show seriously.

I had tortured many of my friends (both male and female anime lovers) with WK to feel my pain of watching this dreck. They all barely got through one episode before wanting my head on a platter before I switched over to the VA's outtakes on the DVD (pure comedic GOLD!) really sad though that the outtakes outshine the actual anime.

It must be a cultural thing for the bishounen fan-girls, the anime crew I hang with are majority African-American so the girls are STILL trying to figure if that is actually a girl or a boy sometimes much less the inane plot.

Sometimes watching bad anime with friends is the best way to relieve the pain of watching such garbage. Ninja Scroll TV series was shown no mercy as well.

[Hordesman]

I'm going to lump my opinion in whith those who said "It's not necessarily the bishounen themselves, it's their fan girls". The sheer volume of squeeling, yaoi-happy under-aged or nearly so fan girls of late is really getting old. Not every show MUST feature two or more long-haired guys that are oh so perfect for someone's misguided fantasy life.
It's not always about preteens and fantasy lives. I usually prefer yaoi couples because I think it's simply a valid alternative that gets too little play and too much hate. My cousin writes the cutest things about yaoi couples who arebn't bishounedn usually and mostly not anime like the elf and miner in Rudolph, and it's more about politics of acceptance.

[Neo-Era]

I don't like them because they embody the fetishization of anime that's way too common nowadays. One or two pretty boys in a show is fine by me since, hey, you'll see that in real life. But when they coveniently come in packs of five, then it's just blatent pandering to the sexual fantasies of specific audience members and that's gross. For the same reasons, I hate catgirls, robot maids, moe girls, harems, and the like.

I say these things as a social liberal. If people want to watch this stuff, fine, but I'll never understand those who can't watch something unless it makes them horny. It's like if you wanted to get an anime fan to watch 2001 or The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly or Apocalypse Now, you'd have to tell them the movie stars five skinny, effeminate boys who angst a lot or has a 16-year-old girl with DD cups who gets accidentally groped by the main character in comedic mishaps.

[Beat]

American's aren't innocent of fetishizing programming either. Key example- Friends and Will and Grace.

Besides, a lot of smaller animation studios pump out distinct fetishing pieces to appeal to certain fans when it's obvious they won't get noticed any other way. Case in point, PC Moe, a small distribution company, can't get stuff with the storytelling or flash of Full Metal Alchemist or Overman King Gainer, because they lack both the manpower and the resources to do so. How do they profit?

By releasing stories catered to feteshies. Maids, catgirls, harem legions, Rei-clones, legions of skinny pretty boys, boy bands, guys with grey hair in biazzaro styles, they find that bizzaro niche, and they profit. Simply because they don't have the manpower or the resources to attempt anything grander. Is it right? Heck no. That's why we don't see half of it.

[MrBananagrabber]

I had tortured many of my friends (both male and female anime lovers) with WK to feel my pain of watching this dreck. They all barely got through one episode before wanting my head on a platter before I switched over to the VA's outtakes on the DVD (pure comedic GOLD!) really sad though that the outtakes outshine the actual anime.
Those were some great outtakes, they saved it. I would gladly watch a Duel Masters parody dub of WK

[Anyone00]

Well I think people are ignoring the elephant in the room (Beatdigga did mention it): Bishie remind people of boy-bands, alot of people hate boy-bands with a passion because they are an unholy blight upon the universe that must be wiped-out at all........ sorry :sweat: , got carried away, just been playing 'Dawn of War'.


Burn the Boy-band.
Kill the Solo-career.
Purge the Bishie.

:anime: :p ;)

[Demonic Raven]

I don't care if a character is a bishounen or not. If it is a good, likable character then he's fine in my book.

Although a show should have at least one or two good looking women. That I DO care about. :p

[Zero Angel]

I don't care if a character is a bishounen or not. If it is a good, likable character then he's fine in my book.

Although a show should have at least one or two good looking women. That I DO care about. :p
well there have been a host of good characters that have also been Bishi. again most of the Kenshin cast falls into the Bishonen category in one way or another (both heroes and villans). also Get Backers is a good show/manga with Bishonen main characters that also have a host of attractive female characters (aka Hevyn).

it all matters in presentation and how much you can care about the characters...like you said.

[Hordesman]

Can someone tell me what a Bishounen is?
Literal definition:
Bi- beautiful; shouen- boy

But it's more about a specific art style, particularly with doujinshi. I've seen Buggy the Clown and Captain Barbossa drawn this way.

[Weatherman]

It's not always about preteens and fantasy lives. I usually prefer yaoi couples because I think it's simply a valid alternative that gets too little play and too much hate. My cousin writes the cutest things about yaoi couples who arebn't bishounedn usually and mostly not anime like the elf and miner in Rudolph, and it's more about politics of acceptance.
Hey, I have absolutely no issues with people who are homosexual. If someone's gay, their gay, no big deal. I just really don't appreciate hordes of fangirls and the boys who fawn at their feet running around cons screching about how much they love yaoi and how every male character, and perferably the bishounen ones, just have to do it. I have to wonder what they would think if they actually saw two real males having sex.

[Invader_Spooch]

I think I find respectful bishonen fangirls (not the ones you speak of) a refreshing change of pace from the creepy sexually frustrated teen to mid 20's guys that make up a majority of the anime community (see most Love Hina and Chobits fans etc.).

[Weatherman]

I think I find respectful bishonen fangirls (not the ones you speak of) a refreshing change of pace from the creepy sexually frustrated teen to mid 20's guys that make up a majority of the anime community (see most Love Hina and Chobits fans etc.).
Actually, I know quite a few female Chobits fans and even some female Love Hina fans. But I do see your point about those fan boys. I have no problem at all with respectful female bishounen fans seeing as many of my friends would fall under that category. It's the ones I mentioned that just get to me in a bad way.