Widescreen JL is "matted" [Archive]

Brian Cruz

11-17-2001, 09:40 PM

I compared tonight's full screen broadcast of JL with the widescreen version on my preview tape, and it's obvious that the widescreen version is matted. The show was animated in full screen, and the top and bottom is matted out to create a widescreen effect. Here are some examples...

http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl1-full.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl1-wide.jpg

http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl2-full.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl2-wide.jpg

I can imagine several reasons it was done this way. First off, a widescreen version is necesssary because in a few years widescreen televsions and HDTV will become more prevalent, and having a widescreen version available saves a lot of trouble for the future. However, actually animating in widescreen would mean cutting off the sides (i.e. panning & scanning) of the picture in order to show it on current square-shaped TVs. So the method they're using seems like a fair compromise. I'm certain that each shot was framed so that the widescreen matting loses nothing of signifcance. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the series was storyboarded in widescreen. So please don't think that the widescreen presentation is in any way a "lesser" version. The creators may actually prefer it.

Samhaine

11-17-2001, 09:43 PM

Hmmm.....looks like I'll be taping the full frame versions, then.

Joker85

11-17-2001, 09:46 PM

Well, I recorded the full frame version tonight and it look's like I'll continue to record that version.

SSNTails

11-17-2001, 10:37 PM

More square footage of picture is always better.

kid_flash

11-17-2001, 11:51 PM

Shoot, can anyone do me a giant favor and get me a copy of the full frame version? I didn't tape it 'cause I thought widescreen was the true version. So if anyone could get me a copy, that'd be awesome, I'll pay for the tape. My e-mail addy is ScottN86@aol.com.

One other tiny thing, if you taped it off Direct TV, could you let me know? Also, if you could let me know if you taped in on slow play or extended play or whatever. I really hate to be picky, but I'm shooting for the best quality. Thanks!

Maxie Zeus

11-18-2001, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by kid_flash
One other tiny thing, if you taped it off Direct TV, could you let me know? Also, if you could let me know if you taped in on slow play or extended play or whatever. I really hate to be picky, but I'm shooting for the best quality. Thanks!

It will be rerun in December thru January, so you can also get it then.

DerekPowers

11-18-2001, 01:22 AM

good thing i taped it tonight, even though i was planning on taping over it tomorrow. that really sucks, and i dont see the point in the widescreen if its just the orignal w/ bars over it. whats the point of that?? well, it does save me the trouble of only having one night to tape it on. peace.

AmazonPrincess

11-18-2001, 02:24 AM

I too had taped tonight's broadcast because I just couldn't wait to watch it - now I guess I won't bother taping over it tomorrow. :) Thanks for the matting info.

Brian Cruz

11-18-2001, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by SSNTails
More square footage of picture is always better.

I can't argue that point when it comes to animation, since the entire drawn area is fully controlled, but that's not the case for live action. Sometimes the full screen version shows you things that you're not supposed to see, because the director framed every shot for widescreen. Like in "PeeWee's Big Adventure", when he's pulling the impossibly long chain out of his bike, you can see where the chain is being fed from in the full screen version. And in "A Fish Called Wanda", the part where John Cleese is naked and a family walks in on him, in the full screen version you can see he's wearing shorts! There's even a photo example of this here (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum15/HTML/032063.html#11). Whichever way the director intends the film to be seen, that's the way I want to see it. I don't know any JL directors, but I'd be interested in knowing which version of JL they prefer.

James Harvey

11-18-2001, 02:15 PM

I think they're only doing the matting becuase in a few years all we're gonna have is widescreen TV and a full frame show is not going to translate well at all. I personally don't mind the matting now that I've had some time to look at it and think about it. Actually, I encourage everyone to watch the widescreen anyways! This is CN's first big venture into widescreen and it was likely a gigantic uphill battle to get it approved. There could be alot more shows and specials we'll be seeing in the future in widescreen, and JL is the stepping stone towards it!

SSNTails

11-18-2001, 03:32 PM

They should still air shows in full-frame, and just have the widescreen TVs auto-clip the tops off for situations like this.

Karkull

11-18-2001, 06:27 PM

I'm always the first to pull for letterbox format, but in this case it's the opposite: the full-screen is the "better" version while the letterbox cuts off part of the screen!

Sadly, I think I'll be keeping the full-screen version this time. That is, unless they begin doing the show in letterbox and cut it down into full screen (like they're "supposed" to!).

Leaping Larry Jojo

11-18-2001, 07:30 PM

For now, the "widescreen" is still a gimmick. In a couple of years, most shows will be "true" widescreen anyway, so watching the full screen will still be my preferred choice until studios start animating for a letterbox format.

SSNTails

11-19-2001, 09:00 AM

The only reason widescreen exists at all is because the theatres wanted to have something different from televisions, that's all.

Jack

11-19-2001, 10:44 PM

I feel kind of cheated in that I was under the impression that the show was filmed in widescreen. I don't think they should crop full frame TV shows for a fake widescreen effect. Why not utilize the size of the screen to it's fullest potential? To me, matted widescreen is only for theatrical movies that were filmed in "full frame" for cheapness because the open matte verson shows a bunch of stuff the creators didn't want you to see.

Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and we'll finally get to see CN's only REAL widescreen properties in Letterbox foremat: The Cinemascope MGM cartoons. They look truly awful in pan and scan.

Jack :D

Snake Plissken

11-20-2001, 09:10 AM

Damnit people! Who the hell cares if you see more of the sky or more leg of Superman. The way youre SUPPOSED to see it is in widescreen. It was made
that way. Bruce Timm tells you why!

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthre...87969#post87969

SSNTails

11-20-2001, 12:18 PM

Who cares if you're "supposed" to? Full frame is more efficient use of your television set. :)

Plus widescreen on a traditional TV really kills the image resolution...

Heehaw

11-24-2001, 02:30 PM

The only reason widescreen exists at all is because the theatres wanted to have something different from televisions, that's all.

Widescreen is preferred by just about everybody in the film/TV industry. Yeah, in the beginning it was used as an alternative to TV squareness, but not anymore. The arrival of WS TVs(in the US) is proof of that.

Plus widescreen on a traditional TV really kills the image resolution...

BS. Get a bigger screen.

They should still air shows in full-frame, and just have the widescreen TVs auto-clip the tops off for situations like this

Then you'll have a hollowed out black/grey box around the image. Besides, most people, in the US, don't have WS sets.

For now, the "widescreen" is still a gimmick

It's not a gimmick. They are preparing for HDTV. Just about every show imaginable is shot in widescreen now, just so it will comply with whatever regulations are put in place when the switch to digital is mandatory. Most shows then get hacked into pan and scan. A few shows are shown in widescreen. The Sopranos is an example. A fullframe picture is going to look pretty shabby on a widescreen set. The black bars will not be present on an HDTV broadcast(if you have an HDTV that is). Same goes for anamorphic transfers on DVD(you need either a HDTV or a regular WS set to take advantage).

lastsonofel

12-21-2001, 01:26 PM

The original idea for JL was to have it as a widescreen format. The idea didn't go over well with CN execs, so they compromised. Anything that is not included in the widescreen format is just "filler animation" to make it full-frame.

The Penguin

12-21-2001, 04:45 PM

Even though it is "just matted" I guess I like the widescreen version better. I watch both of them, but I only tape them on Sunday.

James Harvey

12-21-2001, 07:40 PM

But the show is meant to be 16:9. They had to make it 4:3 to please the network.

Calhoun07

12-21-2001, 10:11 PM

Just as long as we get it on DVD the way it was meant to be seen, I don't care if Cartoon Network broadcasts it in a triangle. Well, I would care if it was in a triangle. That might be annoying....

James Harvey

12-21-2001, 10:15 PM

I'm sure we'll get both the full frame and widescreen version on the DVD. Then again this is WB and they probably perceive this as a "Kid" release so they'll likely go full frame *grumbles*. Either way - I'll be getting it. I prefer widescreen, though.

Calhoun07

12-21-2001, 10:24 PM

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Kids "prefer" full frame. :rolleyes:

Heehaw

12-22-2001, 03:34 AM

The show is storyboarded with widescreeen in mind, so the "striking" compositions are there. The rest is fullscreen filler.

I've gone over the probable reasons for doing it the way they did somewhere in this thread or maybe another one. It's the best approach...for animation that is.

James Harvey

12-22-2001, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by nothing
Prime example, the shot with batman & superman with the wayne research facility in flames behind them. If the shot was designed for 16:9 you wouldn't see so much mountain, you would see more of the building in flames.

Not really. That scene is supposed to focus on Superman and Batman, hence why they're centered. This can be argued for ages but Timm has said himself that show is storyboarded with widescreen in mind, but forced to go full screen to please the network. There's nothing else to it than that.

Heehaw

12-22-2001, 04:53 PM

They aren't creating the art and then slapping black bars on it as an afterthought. They are storyboarding the action within a masked off widescreen format. They extend the art, past the bars, after the scene is realized. This appeases the network which is interested in fullscreen only, it seems.

Evidence of this can be see on the ROTJ DVD storyboards. The matte lines are there.

There's more than one way to achieve the cinematic look. Alot of movies are shot in fullscreen and then matted into widescreen. Timm and crew were simply thinking ahead by doing it this way. If the series had been "shot" in TRUE WS, then it would have to be cropped to get a fullscreen version. If the WS broadcasts were ever stopped, then we would be stuck with a crummy pan and scan version of the series, i.e. pure garbage.

Calhoun07

12-23-2001, 09:52 AM

IMO, WS airings should never stop. With the advent of widescreen TVs, it's about time people get over pan and scan and get with it as far as widescreen goes.

It still overwhelms me to think that only about 2% of the public really want pan and scan. The majoritiy don't care, and then there is the ever growing wide screen only crowd.

Heehaw

12-23-2001, 10:04 PM

I don't know about that 2% stat. The general public just doesn't understand the benefits of WS and most people don't like watching "postage stamps" on their TV. My parents really hated it, at first, but have grown used to it after a few viewings of various films.

The studios need to release some kind of DVD that shows, visually, exactly what it is all about. They could include it as an extra on all of their releases or release it as a pack-in with titles that they feel will be huge sellers. Just the other day I watched a brief featurette on TCM that was about this very thing. It had interviews with major directors and showed all kinds of examples of how it is superior. This information wouldn't really be relevent to the matte technique of WS, but it could still be discussed.

I'm proud to say I'm a WS only type. The only fullscreen stuff I have is that which was originally filmed that way.

James Harvey

12-24-2001, 12:23 AM

They should definatly start having short featurettes on widescreen, and the advantages becuase there are many. I like how JL is widescreen becuase it shows a maturity for the network. Firts JL then...who knows...

Calhoun07

12-24-2001, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Heehaw
I don't know about that 2% stat. The general public just doesn't understand the benefits of WS and most people don't like watching "postage stamps" on their TV. My parents really hated it, at first, but have grown used to it after a few viewings of various films.

I base the 2% stat from personal experience, from talking to customers at my second job, which is at a video store. In the few years I have worked there, only a small, small handful of people have returned movies because they didn't like the black bars on the screen, and demanded a full frame version or their money back. Those people will not change. Your parents are the majority of the consumers out there, who are just not used to it but learn to see the benefits of the format as time goes on.

Perhaps there may be polls generated that may return different stats, but this is based on responses from thousands of customers. So few insist on full frame that I wonder why the movie industry even bothers with it for home video releases.

Heehaw

12-24-2001, 03:01 AM

Your parents are the majority of the consumers out there, who are just not used to it but learn to see the benefits of the format as time goes on.

Ha, ha, I still don't think they understand what it's all about. I think they are just tired of me trying to explain it whenever I'm over there, so they just accept it so I'll be quiet. :)

So few insist on full frame that I wonder why the movie industry even bothers with it for home video releases

I actually neglected to mention a disturbing trend(for me and WS purists) of pan and scan versions of DVDs catching up, saleswise, with WS ones. If you keep up with the market, more and more big releases are getting both a WS and FS version of the film released separately. Slowly but surely the FS version has caught up with WS, and I believe it was "The Grinch" that finally surpassed it, in fact beating it 2:1. I don't know whether to chalk that up to consumers consciously seeking it out, or big chains who are starting to carry more(and in some cases, exclusively) FS versions of certain movies(like Wal-Mart). The latest chart has the FS at No. 2 and the WS at No. 4.

I'm thinking that people don't return the videos to the store because they simply are too lazy. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care. In fact, most likely they turn on the movie, see the bars, and think(or say) "what in the heck?(or something worse). It's too much trouble to get back into the car, so they just deal with it. If they were aware that they had a choice, though, I bet you most would go for FS.

Harvey Dent

12-26-2001, 04:27 PM

Question:

Has anybody tried watching JL in the TRUE widescreen format? I'm not talking about the Sunday version with the black bars, but the real widescreen version.

Story:

This morning, I was playing a basketball game on my PS2 and reached for my remote to dim the colors a little. I accidentally pushed the wrong button and changed the picture size from Normal to Zoom. I pushed it again to return it to normal but got Wide instead. Much to my suprise, I was now playing NBA Live 2002 in Widescreen! I had totally forgotten that my TV had this feature!

Anyway, after I finished the game, I decided to perform a little experiment. I pulled out my JL tape (the fullscreen version) and played it at the Normal screen setting. I then paused the tape, switched the screen setting to Wide, then looked at it again. It was absolutely incredible! Here I was, watching the Fullscreen Monday Night version of Justice League, in Widescreen format!

The big deal:

So what, you ask? Well, it stunned me, and it left me feeling a little stupid. All this time, I was taping both versions of the show on Monday and Sunday, when the whole time, I could've see the Monday version in Widescreen!

Conclusion:

That's my story, and it leads me back to my original question. Has anybody changed the picture size of their screen to Widescreen and watched the Monday version of JL like that? It's still tight and smooth, but you don't have those fake bars at the top and bottom of the screen, meaning that you don't lose the rest of the artwork. It just looks so much better that way. Now I don't have to tape the Sunday version, because I can change the original to Widescreen and not loose anything in the process.

I'm so happy! :)

Sorry if it took so long, or if I've bored you, but it was something that I just had to share with the rest of you.

Hope you all had/have Happy Holidays!

Brian Cruz

12-26-2001, 04:34 PM

Harvey, do you mean your TV is squeezing the picture to make it widescreen? Doesn't that cause picture distortion? It sounds like that would make everyone really fat! :)

Anyway, I hope you all realize that most animation is drawn full screen and matted to widescreen. Here are pics from the DVD of Batman: Mask of the Phatasm, which contains both the full screen and matted widescreen version of the movie:

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp1-full.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp1-full.jpg) http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp1-wide.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp1-wide.jpg)

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp2-full.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp2-full.jpg) http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp2-wide.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp2-wide.jpg)

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp3-full.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp3-full.jpg) http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-batmanmotp3-wide.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/batmanmotp3-wide.jpg)

The same goes for Batman & Mr Freeze: SubZero. Here are comparison shots between the full screen VHS and the widescreen laserdisc. As you can see, even the cgi-animated parts were done full screen:

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero01-full.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero01-wide.jpg

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero02-full.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero02-wide.jpg

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero03-full.jpg http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/subzero03-wide.jpg

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker was almost certainly animated to allow for widescreen matting, but I have not seen a widescreen version, so I can't make a comparison. Most of WB Animation's feature-length productions are animated to allow for widescreen. I believe all the recent Scooby-Doo movies were done this way. I know for a fact that Tom & Jerry: The Magic Ring (which comes out in March) was done this way, from conversations with producer Tom Minton. So was Wakko's Wish, which came out a few years ago. I actually obtained a screener copy of the widescreen Wakko's Wish from Tom Ruegger, although the released version was full screen. Here are pics of that:

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-wakkoswish1-full.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish1-full.jpg) http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-wakkoswish1-wide.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish1-wide.jpg)

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-wakkoswish2-full.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish2-full.jpg) http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/t-wakkoswish2-wide.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish2-wide.jpg)

Harvey Dent

12-26-2001, 04:39 PM

No, it's a real widescreen version. The characters and such are the same size, but the picture is just tighter. I wish I could give you a visual aid, but I don't have that type of equipment. :(

I'm sorry if my story caused any confusion, but I'm not really a master of "tech talk", so I can't explain it any better.

Karkull

12-26-2001, 04:40 PM

I'll still watch it matted, but for now I'm just going to tape the fullscreen version. Hopefully all the upcoming DVDs will offer both.

James Harvey

12-26-2001, 06:39 PM

I dunno about you - but I think the matted versions look better. The compositions ar emore tight and focused. Look at some of the comparisons. The full screens almost look sloppy and directionless compared to the widescreen which brings a sense of focus to the screen.

Harvey Dent

12-26-2001, 07:11 PM

Let me see if I can clear this up.

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish1-full.jpg

On my television, the above image would be changed to widescreen, but unlike this pic:

http://www.toonzone.net/dvd/faq/images/wakkoswish1-wide.jpg

The missing art remains intact. So the whole thing is in widescreen, but nothing is lost. There's no distortion, the characters don't look fat or chubby, etc. The picture is just shrunk down a litte to widescreen, but the size ratio (I think that's what it's called) of the characters and backgrounds remain more or less the same.

I really, really wish I could show you what I was talking about, but I don't have that type of equipment yet.

Karkull

12-26-2001, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
I dunno about you - but I think the matted versions look better. The compositions ar emore tight and focused. Look at some of the comparisons. The full screens almost look sloppy and directionless compared to the widescreen which brings a sense of focus to the screen.

I don't know...the matting just feels forced to me. I watch it and feel like I'm missing something under the bars. I guess it's just me.

Heehaw

12-26-2001, 08:05 PM

There has to be somekind of cropping or distortion happening with the fullscreen to widescreen translation. What you have described is impossible.

Do you have a widescreen TV or a normal square one?

Widescreen with black bars is true widescreen, though it is possible to watch it without them if you have a widescreen TV and are watching something that has been anamorphically encoded. That is a DVD and HDTV thing, though.

I guess I'd just have to see what you are talking about to know what is going on.

Harvey Dent

12-26-2001, 10:14 PM

I have a normal TV. I don't have the specs with me though.

After looking at it a few more times, the image appears to be cropped when chaged to widescreen. I don't see any kind of distortion whatsoever. I really wish I could get a picture of it, but like I said before, I don't have the necessary equpiment. I can't even find a camera to take a picture of the screen. I just know that all the art is retained, despite being in widescreen, or whatever it may be. Anyway, I believe it's much better than the Sunday matted version.

Jack

12-27-2001, 12:04 AM

I don't know, I'm starting to like the widescreen version a bit more. I find all those shots with legs running off the screen (in the non-matted version) somewhat annoying.

Just out of curiosity, does CN make all of their other shows with widescreen in mind? For when HDTVs take over.

Jack :confused:

James Harvey

12-27-2001, 03:15 AM

I'm sure most of their shows can easily be converted to the widescreen format for when HGTV take sover, but it will be interesting to see how other networks handle this when the time comes.

Heehaw

12-27-2001, 02:41 PM

I've read in numerous places that most production, these days, are shot in widescreen, so that they will be suitable for HDTV whenever that happens. I don't know how many of those actually shoot in true widescreen, though.

Harvey, it sounds like your TV is simply stretching the image(while preserving it proportionally) to make it appear as if it is in widescreen. It simply is cropping off some picture to make it fill your screen or however it appears on your TV. I still don't see how it can appear to be in widescreen, on a normal square TV, if there are no black bars. ;) Anyway, if you like what you see, then that is all that matters...

Ha, ha, that reminds me of an article I read where the author stated that he had friends, who hated letterboxing so much, that they actually will watch an anamorphic version of a DVD on a normal TV. That's pretty dumb, but I guess they really hate those bars :)

Heehaw

12-27-2001, 02:45 PM

My only problem with converting shows from fullscreen to widescreen is that it destroys the original vision of the creators. This only applies to shows that were originally filmed with fullscreen in mind. On the other hand, I don't think I would like the letterbox bars to be on the sides of the picture(which is where they would be if the shows weren't converted to widescreen. At least with fullscreen to WS, you will fill the entire TV frame, although as stated at a cost.

I'm not a fan of TV programming, so I won't be losing any sleep over it....

The Flash

12-27-2001, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Karkull

I don't know...the matting just feels forced to me. I watch it and feel like I'm missing something under the bars. I guess it's just me.

No, it's not just you. I feel the exact same way. You're right it does feel forced. I hope once season 2 comes around we get a REAL widescreen, because after all it does look more "dynamic."

Harvey Dent

12-27-2001, 09:26 PM

Heehaw,

Here are the specs of my television:

Samsung 21" Color Television
Easy-to-use remote control
Easy-to-use on-screen menu system
Auto timer to turn the TV on and off
Adjustable picture and sound settings that can be stored in the TV's memory
Auto channel tuning for up to 181 channels
A special filter to reduce or eliminate reception problems
Fine tuning control for the sharpest picture possible
A built-in multi-channel sound decoder for stereo and bilingual listening
Built-in, dual channel speakers
A special sleep timer

As for the screen sizes:

Normal : Sets the picture to 4:3 normal mode. Standard TV screen size.

Zoom : Magnifies the size of the picture on screen

Wide : Sets the picture to 16:9 wide mode.

The last option turns whatever I'm watching into letterbox format. I get the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, but not in the actual picture itself.

I hope that explains things. If not...I'll find a way to get a picture and post it here.

Heehaw

12-27-2001, 09:57 PM

I think that WIDE option is what you use if you are watching a DVD that has an anamorphic transfer, though that would usually be a function on a DVD player. I wouldn't think a normal TV would have that. Oh well, the wonders of technology.

As for the forced nature of the WS broadcasts, nope. I have a plausable reason why they did it the way they have. If it is storyboarded and animated within a 1:85:1 matte, then it doesn't matter if it is in true widescreen or not. You get the same effect, except the bars can be lifted so that the network can have their cake and eat it too. See the above post for the rest. Money is a big factor, too, I bet.

James Harvey

12-29-2001, 01:16 AM

It's gonna be interesting to see the hsows that weren't filmed (at one point) in widescreen for the upcoming HGTV sets. Ah well, I don't really watch alot of shows so I can't see how I'll be effected, but it will still be funny to see.

Jack

12-29-2001, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
It's gonna be interesting to see the hsows that weren't filmed (at one point) in widescreen for the upcoming HGTV sets. Ah well, I don't really watch alot of shows so I can't see how I'll be effected, but it will still be funny to see.
Well, I sort of brought up the topic in this thread once: What Will Happen To.... (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?threadid=12544&highlight=widescreen)

It doesn't apply to TV shows, just CNs classic theatrical cartoons. The post 1954 cartoons will fare pretty well because they were made with cropping in mind, but the older cartoons will either have to be windowboxed, or will have to be vertically pan & scanned.

It's interesting to note that CN not only shows pan and scan MGM cartoons right now, but also that some of the P&S cartoons they air were originally released in BOTH widescreen and "Academy" format to theaters, making the pan and scan unneccessary.

Jack :D

Maxie Zeus

12-29-2001, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Heehaw
My only problem with converting shows from fullscreen to widescreen is that it destroys the original vision of the creators. This only applies to shows that were originally filmed with fullscreen in mind.

My horror story (which I think I've shared before): I went to a special screening of "Singin' in the Rain" at an art house cinema. The idiots projected it onto a wide screen, cutting off the tops and bottoms of the picture. Meaning Gene Kelly was cut off at the ankles during the dance numbers. :mad:

Pulpman

12-30-2001, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Heehaw

I actually neglected to mention a disturbing trend(for me and WS purists) of pan and scan versions of DVDs catching up, saleswise, with WS ones. If you keep up with the market, more and more big releases are getting both a WS and FS version of the film released separately. Slowly but surely the FS version has caught up with WS...
This is a matter of demographics. When DVDs first came out, only real film geeks purchased them, and we geeks were already the folks buying widescreen VHS tapes, a format which no longer exists, for all intents and purposes, BTW, because its audience has switched to DVD. But as DVD becomes mainstream (it will overtake VHS within the next year, probably), you get more and more of those people who used to complain about widescreen in the first place. What I don't understand is why the studios are getting away from having both widescreen and pan-and-scan versions on the same disc. My earliest discs all had both versions, but that is a rarity nowadays.

And things are getting bad. Artisan is currently feeling the wrath of horror-film geeks for putting out Dario Argento's "Sleepless" in pan-and-scan. (And I assure you, Argento's core audience prefers widescreen; he is a director with a mostly "geek" following in the U.S.)