Instant Reaction: Title Sequence

[Maxie Zeus]

So, you guys who saw the preview tape: What's your opinion of the difference between the title sequence on that tape versus the final version we saw tonight?

Me, I think the preview tape was FAR better. Those colored sketches, even in their raw and unfinished state, had a beauty and a power entirely missing from the stiff and lifeless "Max Steele" marionettes of the finished sequence. In the preview you had a sense that these heroes were superhuman icons -- spirits of Justice -- barely capturable by an artist's brush. The final version looks like a videogame.

The music on the preview tape was also better. I didn't download the thing they had at cartoonnetwork since I don't have Real Player on my computer, so I didn't understand why people were complaining about the title theme. Now I know: It's not got much of a melody, and substitutes the swirling colors of an orchestra for the power of a good clear theme. And, for those wondering what happened to the sounds of Shirley Walker: The temp track on the tape was much closer to the sound of the Shirley Walker themes that graced BTAS, STAS and TNBSA. That's one reason I thought it was so great, and said so on another thread.

Anyone else care to chime in?

[Samhaine]

Is there any way someone can put a digital copy of the origianl opening theme from the screener videos up? I'd really like to see what Maxie here has deemed better. I agree with him that the CGI figures weren't much to look at, and I was expecting an opening sequence similar to Batman Beyond.

[Clayface]

I've not seen the preview tapes, so I can't compare the two. But I gotta say, I absolutely loved the open sequence. Yes, it looks like something out of a video game - that's why I loved it! It looked like th Batman:Vengeance game that came out recently, and thought that was pretty cool.

[Vin]

Originally posted by bloodone
Is there any way someone can put a digital copy of the origianl opening theme from the screener videos up? I'd really like to see what Maxie here has deemed better. I agree with him that the CGI figures weren't much to look at, and I was expecting an opening sequence similar to Batman Beyond.

I got one of preview tapes and I did like the original opening sequence. Basically, it was just stills, but it was very neat. However, I like the CGI sequence was neat too.

[DerekPowers]

i actually liked the cgi opening ALOT!! Usually i prefer drawing/cell animation over cgi, but hey, its only the opening, and how often do we get to see these guys in CGI?? i thought it was great, too bad the theme suc...um, i'll restrain myself. the cgi kicked imo.

[JLU Dude]

It was COOL

[DerekPowers]

but the very begining was alittle corney, when they're all walking at you like cowboys or something. i dont know how much i liked that. perhaps if there was a different theme playing it would have looked better. but the rest was great.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
but the very begining was alittle corney, when they're all walking at you like cowboys or something
I kind of got an astronaut feel from that sequence. I didn't really like it. I think tiny clips of the characters interacting with one another in an original title sequence ala BtAS would have been perfect.

[Failure]

I thought the opening was pretty cool, I havent seen the preview tape version though. The CGI for the most part was pretty good I thought, one of them looked a little weird though, it might've been Wonder Woman, she was the least covered in shadows I think. I'll have to listen to the song a couple more times before forming an opinion about that.

[Brian Cruz]

I can probably make a Real Video file of the preview tape's opening, if anyone actually wants it.

[AmazonPrincess]

I'd love to see the preview opening - the cgi just wasn't my cup of tea (plus I wasn't expecting it) so I was really disappointed. I much prefer hand-drawn animation and sketches to cgi.

[Joe Tully]

Yeah, the CGI didn't work too well for me either. It just didn't seem right for some reason. Maybe it'll grow on me though. I would probably have preferred this other opening you guys are tallking about.

Welcome to the boards AmazonPrincess! It's nice to see someone else who'll make posts in the middle of the night so I can have something to read at 4:22 AM. ;)

[AmazonPrincess]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
Yeah, the CGI didn't work too well for me either. It just didn't seem right for some reason. Maybe it'll grow on me though. I would probably have preferred this other opening you guys are tallking about.

Welcome to the boards AmazonPrincess! It's nice to see someone else who'll make posts in the middle of the night so I can have something to read at 4:22 AM. ;)
Thanks Joe! :) And I just added an avatar, so I'm all settled in. Night person I am, so often do post on boards at the 3-4am mark, though it's only 1:30am where I am now.

[Maxie Zeus]

Well, I scrutinized the opening a bit more closely:

Still don't like the CGI stuff. But I seem to be in a minority. :)

The music, on a second listen, is close to the track on the preview tape, being mostly a variation on it. I still like the preview track better: the theme is much cleaner and clearly presented, stated with the same bold force as Walker's STAS and TNBSA themes. The final version is muddier, and obscures that theme under a lot of swirling color.

[Nightwing]

I just took the preview tape's intro for what it was. Unfinished. So when I saw the finished product I was blown away.

Although I DO understand what Maxie is talking about. When fast fowarding through the tape past the intro to get to the episode, I found that if you just increased the speed of those still frames (like story boards of the finished intro) you could use THAT as an animated intro.

As for which I perfer, that's too hard a question. :(

[The Mad Hatter]

Mmmm.... the CGI is okay, but it's obviously CGI and sticks out. Now, if they did it to where it looked more like 2D animation, or was cel-drawn, I'd like it better.

[DisneyBoy]

This is my first post since seeing Justice League! I would have posted sooner, but I wasn't allowed to use the net (thanks MOM :rolleyes: )


Anyways, as for the title sequence, I didn't really enjoy the slow moving, computer generated images. I think they took away from the music actually, which is now stuck in my head!

I rememebr the original paintings/sketches shown on the net, but since I didn't get a copy of the original preview cassette, I haven't really seen what that intro looks like. All in all, I was hoping for more of a montage, kinda like the clips they show before and after each commercial. I had no problem with how they walked towards the camera at the beginning and stood in that pose at the end, in fact, it was exactly how I pictured it! But those CGI people look really plastic. I was hoping for more flow .

[Maxie Zeus]

If you want to see the version on the preview tape (which I for one think superior to the final version), go to http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl-animatic.rm. All hail Brian Cruz for making it available.


Originally posted by Brian Cruz
Here's the preview tape vesion of the JL title sequence, which is a series of storyboard shots set to the JL theme. It's a RealVideo 8 file, so make sure you have RealPlayer (http://www.real.com/player/index.html?src=downloadr) (the free version is at the bottom of that page). This is a 1.2MB file. Please right-click on the link and download it to your hard drive.

[Kal-el]

Having not scene the preview tape, I don't have anything to base the title sequence on (besides, I guess, B:TAS, TNBA, and S:TAS). It could have been much different (and better), but after numerous viewings, I don't think it's too bad. The theme music has also really grown on me.

[Calhoun07]

I also had more high hopes for the opening montage after seeing the preview tape. It seems that those who liked don't know the difference, and that's a bummer.

I wonder if Bruce Timm is ankerin' to do a series in CGI in the future?

[AmazonPrincess]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
If you want to see the version on the preview tape (which I for one think superior to the final version), go to http://www.toonzone.net/brian/images/jl-animatic.rm. All hail Brian Cruz for making it available.


Thanks to the fantastic Brian Cruz (and Maxie Zeus :) ) I was able to finally see the preview version of the opening title sequence. And I LOVED IT! Oh how I wish they had used these drawings (expanded of course) for the opening instead of the cgi - it is a thousand times better, imo. The "real" opening just looked like plastic (and not even in a good action figure way). But then, I'm not a big fan of cgi in general.

[Calhoun07]

All I know is I am not going to part with my preview tape anytime soon. To have the better opening on tape is worth while!

[Toddman]

I think the biggest problem w/the cgi opening of JL is a matter of interpreting artwork in three dimensions. Let me explain-- for the most part all illustrators, including comic book artists, are attempting to render their subjects so that they appear to be occupying real space. However, some artists make no attempt at that (which is very cool). The characters and environments those artists put down on the page only look good in their 2-dimensional world. Jack Kirby was a master at this. One would never attempt to do a sculpting from a Kirby drawing, its probably impossible. Mike Mignola is another artist who can master the art of the flat page. And another master is Bruce Timm. There's a reason his animated characters look so good on screen, it's because that's what they are designed for. They exploit the 2-dimensional medium to its fullest.

On the other hand, cgi renderings do just the oppisite. They are meant to depict light and form realistically. That was the entire reason why cgi was used so much in Phantom Menace. It's not supposed to look like a drawing. It's supposed to look real.

I just think that using cgi on Timm's designs completely defeats the purpose. You've taken something that was brilliantly made to exist in a flat world and thrust it into the 3rd dimension.

Just my thoughts. I like the title sequence design, I'm just not crazy about the medium they chose to present it in.

Toddman

[AmazonPrincess]

Originally posted by Toddman
I think the biggest problem w/the cgi opening of JL is a matter of interpreting artwork in three dimensions. Let me explain-- for the most part all illustrators, including comic book artists, are attempting to render their subjects so that they appear to be occupying real space. However, some artists make no attempt at that (which is very cool). The characters and environments those artists put down on the page only look good in their 2-dimensional world. Jack Kirby was a master at this. One would never attempt to do a sculpting from a Kirby drawing, its probably impossible. Mike Mignola is another artist who can master the art of the flat page. And another master is Bruce Timm. There's a reason his animated characters look so good on screen, it's because that's what they are designed for. They exploit the 2-dimensional medium to its fullest.

On the other hand, cgi renderings do just the oppisite. They are meant to depict light and form realistically. That was the entire reason why cgi was used so much in Phantom Menace. It's not supposed to look like a drawing. It's supposed to look real.

I just think that using cgi on Timm's designs completely defeats the purpose. You've taken something that was brilliantly made to exist in a flat world and thrust it into the 3rd dimension.

Just my thoughts. I like the title sequence design, I'm just not crazy about the medium they chose to present it in.

Toddman
Toddman, I would agree with you except that I have several of the WB limited ed maquettes that are based on Timm's drawings, and they look fabulous in 3d in that medium. Maybe it's the 3d within 2d that is the problem?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Toddman
I think the biggest problem w/the cgi opening of JL is a matter of interpreting artwork in three dimensions.

Very interesting observations, Toddman.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by AmazonPrincess

Toddman, I would agree with you except that I have several of the WB limited ed maquettes that are based on Timm's drawings, and they look fabulous in 3d in that medium. Maybe it's the 3d within 2d that is the problem?

That's an interesting obsevation, A.P. You're right, the maquettes and action figures are pretty nice looking. Perhaps it is the 3d within the 2d problem. A lot of it has to do with the interpretation of the characters movement also. Timm's drawings "cheat" a lot with their movements as far as anatomy and perspective go.

Toddman