Justice League Vs X-MEN : who wins?

[Stupendous Man]

Heres a question that should lead to some interesting
conversation :

In a battle royale - who wins ? The Justice League or the Xmen?

Now considering the Xmen are now an army practically ,
I am going to limit the Xmen to some of the usual suspects .

Heres the Xmen Team :

Cyclops : Jean Grey: Colosus : Wolverine : Gambit: Rogue :
Storm

The Justice League :
Superman : Wonder Woman: Green Lantern: Martian Manhunter:
The Flash : Batman : Plastic Man


Who wins ?

I think , on the surface it appears that the Justice League has
the Xmen beat just based on the big guns JL brings to the battle
- Superman , WWoman, Green Lantern , and MManhunter are
indivually forces to be reckoned with.

Thats why for now Im trying to point out advantages the
Xmen may have to balance the playing field.

* * * *

~
Do you think Wolverines Adamantium Claws can penetrate
Supermans flesh?

I think this is the deciding factor here , because the only way for the Xmen to win is to nuetralize Superman. I think if Wolverine
can cut Superman - we have a match.

~

Rogue is another Xmen who would be able to nuetralize superman by absorbing his powers ...then maybee utilizing
her combined power with supes strength to take out Wonder Woman.


~

I think it would be up to Jean Grey to nuetralize Martian Manhunter with her telepathy.

~

What does everyone think ?
How would this play out - although considering the
forum this question is bieng posed in - Id say JL has home court
advantage.

Lets try to be fair and unbiased.

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by The Spirit
Heres a question that should lead to some interesting
conversation :

In a battle royale - who wins ? The Justice League or the Xmen?

Now considering the Xmen are now an army practically ,
I am going to limit the Xmen to some of the usual suspects .

-considering the power differential, that isn't really necessary


Heres the Xmen Team :

Cyclops : Jean Grey: Colosus : Wolverine : Gambit: Rogue :
Storm

The Justice League :
Superman : Wonder Woman: Green Lantern: Martian Manhunter:
The Flash : Batman : Plastic Man


Who wins ?

I think , on the surface it appears that the Justice League has
the Xmen beat just based on the big guns JL brings to the battle
- Superman , WWoman, Green Lantern , and MManhunter are
indivually forces to be reckoned with.

Thats why for now Im trying to point out advantages the
Xmen may have to balance the playing field.

* * * *

~
Do you think Wolverines Adamantium Claws can penetrate
Supermans flesh?

I think this is the deciding factor here , because the only way for the Xmen to win is to nuetralize Superman. I think if Wolverine
can cut Superman - we have a match.

-They probably can. However, there are other ways to take down Supes: telepathy, power draining. Not to mention that Cyclops, at least, packs enough punch to at least hurt Supes.


~

Rogue is another Xmen who would be able to nuetralize superman by absorbing his powers ...then maybee utilizing
her combined power with supes strength to take out Wonder Woman.

-oops


~

I think it would be up to Jean Grey to nuetralize Martian Manhunter with her telepathy.

-She is far better at offense than he is, and has a better tutor.

~

What does everyone think ?
How would this play out - although considering the
forum this question is bieng posed in - Id say JL has home court
advantage.

Lets try to be fair and unbiased.

-Depends.

If they fight as in the comic book, the X-Men should win, simply because the heavy hitters of the JLA almost never use their full potential, where as the X-Men regularly do. Also, if the JLA does something stupid ( letting Kyle lead ), they are gonna eat it.

If they fight smart ( by CBUB rules ), JLA wins in one picosecond. Superspeed, superspeed, superspeed. Note that the JLA almost never exploit their superspeed in combat, so that is why the above is different.

If they fight as in the cartoon, who knows?? If it was the old Superfriends vs. X-Men argument, than X-Men take it, easily, but the new JL will probably be more effective ( I hope ).

[Stupendous Man]

What do you mean by CBUB rules?

~

I hadnt accounted for superspeed in the equation , that may be a
important factor .. although im not sure if it necessarily
eliminates the Xmen from the competition.


~

I agree that Jean Grey should be able to
defeat M Manhunter off the bat.

This is very debilitating to the Justice League as they
rely on MM to relay orders and keep in contact.

The Justice League is less team oriented than the Xmen.
You have to remember most of these players are used to
combating on their own ...they only join the League in
extreme emergencies. The Xmen fight solely as a team and
are much more in tune with each other. They can operate as
a team even wout a telepath - plus though individually they
are not as powerfull as individual members of the JL ... the Xmen
have studied how to accentuate each of their teamates powers by acting as a unit.

I think this gives the xmen a tactical edge.

In retrospect , I regret not adding ICEMAN to the Xmens team roster . If I had to do it over again I would replace Storm w Iceman who has far better offensive capabilities.

[James Harvey]

Simple. Justice League. If Batman can destroy the whole Justice League, then he can surely defeat the X-Men no problem. It's a no brainer.

[JLU Dude]

I'm gonna agree with Dick Grayson on this. The Justice League would kick the X-Men's butts (I like both teams, by the way).

[don Jaime]

This is JLA's fight to lose. Most of the muties are just out of their element against the likes of the Flash. Martian Manhunter should even the odds against Phoenix, Psylocke (did she die?), and maybe Professor X himself. I don't see ANY superteam taking the JLA.

[Joe Tully]

I would give this one to JLA but I think that the X-Men would have a chance, mostly due to Jean Grey. I think that her telepathy is stronger than MMs. Telepathy and telekinesis are her only powers so she has to focus strongly on those and has developed them well, and she is one of the most powerful minds in Marvel. Maybe she is not too much better than MM at mental attacks, but I would still give her the edge. If she beat MM, she would be instrumental in taking down some of the big guns of JLA. Rogue could also be very useful if she was able to take down Supes. Parasite has been a problem for Supes and Rogue has the same powers plus her strength, flight, and nigh-invulnerability, so she could potentially take him and other of the more powerful characters. Plus, if her teammates get knocked out, she has in the past stolen powers from her unconscious teammates. And I know that this will piss a lot of people off, but I think that Wolvie might be able to take Bats. His healing factor makes him very hard to damage.

Anyways, I think that JL would win but would probably lose about half of their team during the fight. I could see GL, MM, and Plas being beaten, and possibly Bats, but the others would be very hard to beat.

JLA vs. Avengers might be better. Does anyone know when that is coming out?

[Trent Lane]

Justice League. Like DG said, see Tower of Babel and you'll figure it out fairly quickly...

[Batman 80]

JLA all the way.

[Stupendous Man]

I love the Justice League as much as any of you ..
maybee even more .

Im also a huge Batman fan.


However - I dont think you guys are giving the Xmen roster their due.

First off .. to say that JLA would definitely win because of the
'Tower of Babel ' storyline. Shame on you - did you read tower of
Babel? It showed that a man with no powers could beat the
entire League. Granted that man was Bats ..but still .. tower of babel showed that the team could be beaten and had weaknesses not the other way around.

Second .. I love Batman ..and I think given time to plan a confrontation - Batman could beat any foe. However its ridiculous
to state that Batman could beat wolverine in a purely physical confrontation.

Hey Im a Batman fan like the rest of you ... and it hurts me to
say that anyone could beat Bats ...but come on.


>> I think people arent thinking the battle through ... I think
that the xmen team would have a good shot of taking down the
Justice League based on the fact that they are a much more team oriented than JL.

Take out Batman the brains of the JL ...
And have Rogue nuetralize Supes ...
Jean Grey take out MManhunter ...

Then the rest of the JL is likely to fall to the Xmen.

*********

Heres where I make the exception ...If the JL has time to
plan a confrontation with the Xmen .. allowing Batman to
formulate a plan : The Xmen fall hard.

But if the Xmen and the JLeague meet on the battlefield
without ever having heard of the other team... then
it may be a close match.

I cant agree with Dick Grayson saying this battles a no-brainer.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by The Spirit

However - I dont think you guys are giving the Xmen roster their due.


I have to agree with Spirit. It's not as lopsided as it appears.
What's especially true is the team aspect. The X-men are much more of a unit and that would give them a major edge. It's not just about power, but about working well together. It's like the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl teams in the NFL each year. No Super Bowl team in history can match a Pro Bowl team in terms of pure talent. But any Super Bowl team would beat any Pro Bowl team any day.

That's not a perfect comparison, as the JLA is experienced. But I think the X-men work better as a team and do have tremendous power. I don't know who'd win. It could go either way. I just think it's closer many think.

[Joe Tully]

I also have to point out that the logic:

Person/team A beat Person/team B so they can beat Person/Team C

is very faulty. Generally, any kind of logic like this doesn't really work. If we were playing Rock, Paper, Scissors, would you argue that Scissors always would be able to beat Rock because Paper beats Rock and Scissors beats Paper? It irritates me when people use this kind of logic. You should have more of a reason than "Because." Reason it out. Yeah, Bats planned the ideas used in Tower of Babel, but would he be able to have enough info to plan well against the X-Men, or have the time and materials necessary to plan similar attacks? Bats doesnt have unlimited resources. Plus there are intangibles that not even Bats can plan for. Bats doesn't always win every fight.

And just as you can say that Bats plans ahead and wins, you can say that any hero opponent he faces wins their fight due to their skills and abilities, because they're heroes and they have to win the fight, its their book!

[Tim Drake]

Sorry I'm going to have to say Justice League. Three of them together can move the moon. I don't think the entire Xmen team could ever move the moon.

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by Tim Drake
Sorry I'm going to have to say Justice League. Three of them together can move the moon. I don't think the entire Xmen team could ever move the moon.

So?? That means that the JL have more strength. That does them no good if they:

-don't use it to full extent ( they never do )

-don't hit

-find the strong guys eliminated through other means ( telepathy, power draining )

[NewMaxFranklin]

I think it's anybody's game.

Storm took out WW in the Marvel vs DC comic series by zapping her with lightning. So, there's that. I'd say Storm would be a fair match for GL too.

The most useless combatants are Plastic Man and Gambit.

Flash seems like he'd be one of the more difficult ones for the X-Men to beat. He's just too fast.

Anyone considered that Professor X could enter Supes' mind and use him aginst the other JL members? After all, X always comes through when his kids are outmatched.

[Joe Tully]

Another thing that's been left out is the fact that Prof. X and Jean have both simply turned people's minds "off" in the past. While they reserve this for extreme cases, if the X-Men went "all out", this would eliminate anyone but MM.

I'm still giving JLA the edge though.

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by NewMaxFranklin
I think it's anybody's game.

Storm took out WW in the Marvel vs DC comic series by zapping her with lightning. So, there's that. I'd say Storm would be a fair match for GL too.

-She could take down WW, but not GL, unless he's being stupid.

The most useless combatants are Plastic Man and Gambit.

-I don't know; Plaz is credible in melee, and Gambit is showing the ability to charge living matter, recently.

Flash seems like he'd be one of the more difficult ones for the X-Men to beat. He's just too fast.

-Thats why I hate superspeed: it can't be beaten, realistically, except through superspeed.

Anyone considered that Professor X could enter Supes' mind and use him aginst the other JL members? After all, X always comes through when his kids are outmatched.

-I do, however, he wasn't in the initial roster.

One could EASILY make an X-Men roster that would slaughter the JLA. The first must-have member is Longshot. Then, pile on the omegas.

[Luminous]

Originally posted by metaphysician


So?? That means that the JL have more strength. That does them no good if they:

-don't use it to full extent ( they never do )




I've read a few Superman comics, but I am BY FAR a bigger fan of the animated venues. Perhaps this is why I don't know this.

Meta's comment about them not using the full extent of their strength, or powers for that matter, seems to have been expressed more than once on these boards. Does anyone know if this is a response these characters have decided on themselves(through expositions in their dialogue) in the books for fear of causing more damage than necessary? Or is it that if they did use "full power" their wouldn't be much of a story left to tell??

Just wondering!

-EOF-

- - Luminous

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by The Spirit

Heres the Xmen Team :

Cyclops : Jean Grey: Colosus : Wolverine : Gambit: Rogue :
Storm

The Justice League :
Superman : Wonder Woman: Green Lantern: Martian Manhunter:
The Flash : Batman : Plastic Man

If this is a one on one type of battle, teaming up with the best match, not necessarily the one with like powers, maybe be a deciding factor. This could be the way Prof X might handicap the matchups from his teams perspective:

Cyclops: pretty much one dimensional...stay away from his energy beam and he could be disabled without a huge struggle
Best JL member(s) to oppose: pretty much any of them.

Jean Gray: mind powers are tough to quantify. She and MM could be a standoff, but when going for a win, a push isn't always best. She is merely human, so she suffers from human weaknesses, and doesn't seem to have the best tactical sense. If MM could withstand her mental abilities, his strength and speed could decide the bought.

Colusses: if another JLer takes Jean Gray, MM should be successful against him with mind powers alone.

Wolverine: his adamantium is a facto, though not the only one. On the Superman vs. Wolverine thread, someone said that Wolverine goes for blood. Does he really? Sabertooth seems to still be around. If his adamantium is unsuccessful against Supes, he's done. If it is, using more cunning and allowing him to beat himself is the way to go. His temper gets him in trouble often, and someone like Batman could exploit this. Flash could also frustrate him to the point of making a mistake. GL would also offer an opponent unfamiliar to Wolverine, making things tough for him.

Gambit: doesn't impress me much. Never really has. Supes would not have a problem with him, nor would WW.

Rogue: May be a push with her and Supes, unless she was attracted to him. Bad matchup for Supes, given his problems with Parasite. Someone who can fight at a distance would work well. GL or MM could give her trouble.

Storm: depending on how she decides to use her powers. She could be beaten by quickness and cunning. Flash, Batman, or GL might work best against her. Supes would win, but that leaves his spot open...a waste of his abilities.

This is all different if the event was everyone against everyone...

[Stupendous Man]

I had envisioned this as a team against team battle ..not
as a one on one contest.


I think the battles you chose , Kal, were meant to favor the Justice League.

Cyclops is more dangerous than you realize ...he could easily be
used to disable Batman ( cutting of any tactical advantage JL has and plastic man right from the start of battle ).

Cyclops than operates from the sidelines ..using his powers in conjuction with Colossus. Imagine Wonder Woman bieng assualted by Colossus strength and Cyclops energy beams simultaneously.

I think Superman would definitely fall to either Rogue or Wolverine.

Although Superman would fall to Wolverine .. I think Green Lantern might be able to nuetralize wolverine if he got to Wolvie before Logan got to Superman ...

This could really go either way ... it all depends on timing .

[Bic]

Like any match-up between comic book teams, you're always at the whim of the writer's preferences and/or story element. If it's just a fight scene than it's no better than a Liefeld book.

Important items to note:
- Wolverine can not cut Superman with his claws, unless Supes had a red sun weakness or magic is involved, whereas Illyana could cut him (okay, okay she's my 3rd fav X-Person!! -- and my first two favs are just as dead :( ).
- Superman almost always regulates his strength to lower than his combatants for the first few hits to gauge how much strength is required to knock a foe out (at least this is true with S:TAS).
- The telepath issue is interesting and varied, MM and Jean (Betsy & Prof X too) use thier abilities in combat in different ways. Shutting down one's mind depends on how strong one's mental blocks are.
- Leadership is an issue, the X-Men had have a secondary leader just in case (don't see it much anymore, but it was prevalnt back in CC's day). With this team up you have Cyclops and Storm plus Logan's led the team on one or two ocassion's himself (let's forget Jean's one shot leadership -- okay? good)
- Rogue is not as strong as Superman; she's about WonderWoman's level, unless she drains Superman's powers.
-Gambit has the ability to charm as well, a couple of seconds to fluster WW as a distraction could help turn the tide at the beginning.
- Logan does have a healing factor, but it does take time to heal a severe wound, espically a missing organ (tho' Supes would never stoop to that.)
- Batman has a keen mind, and has an avantage over Logan; incriminating images of Logan and Jubilee, Logan & Jean, Logan & Scott, Logan & Galactus, etc. :eek:
Ok the last one was a joke.

Basically if the teams fought as if they were real people, it all comes down to two things: Tatics and luck.

But as to who would win, I'd say Vandal Savage because he planned it all as a distraction to woo Mystique for a one night stand. :D

[don Jaime]

Should we even be considering the late, great Colossus in this battle? There's not a lot a dead guy can bring to the party.

[Bic]

Should we even be considering the late, great Colossus in this battle? There's not a lot a dead guy can bring to the party.

Especally since his ashes are spread all over the fields where he grew up. :)

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by Bic


Especally since his ashes are spread all over the fields where he grew up. :)

Its not considered good debating tactic, bringing up a character's current death. If a character is in the listed roster for a fight, he's alive, period.

In any case, if you wanted to ditch Collosus, I could come up with some replacements that would make the JLA hurt BAD.

;)

[Stupendous Man]

lol ... finally someone with debate etiquette.

Who would you replace Colossus with on the roster
MetaDoc ?

* * *

Personally , I love Colossus.
He will be missed.

* * *

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by The Spirit
lol ... finally someone with debate etiquette.

Who would you replace Colossus with on the roster
MetaDoc ?

Longshot would be my first choice. He could probably wipe the JLA solo. Iceman comes in for a tie; he is now uber-powerful. I'd throw Nate Grey in, too, but that would be unfair to the JLA. ;)

* * *

Personally , I love Colossus.
He will be missed.

* * *

[Knight]

I dont understand this post we're going to list the current JLA up against a X-men team that doesnt exsist. why not list the current X -men or make up the JLA team too. People want to add dead members or people like Professor X who are rarely in the heat of battle.

[Stupendous Man]

Ive never been a Longshot fan ...I dont like characters whose
powers arent clearly defined.

I tried creating Xmen roster that would be a fair to even match for the JL .

Some of the Xmens big guns could handle the JL by themselves
practically ... which is why Professor X is absent from the list.

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by The Spirit
Ive never been a Longshot fan ...I dont like characters whose
powers arent clearly defined.

I tried creating Xmen roster that would be a fair to even match for the JL .

Some of the Xmens big guns could handle the JL by themselves
practically ... which is why Professor X is absent from the list.

Longshot's powers ARE defined. He has extraordinary luck. Its just that that power can do almost anything. Hence, why I would use him.

[Stupendous Man]

How do you do the cool quote blocks everyone does on here ...
can anyone spare a few moments for a tutorial.

[NewMaxFranklin]

Originally posted by The Spirit


Who would you replace Colossus with on the roster?



How about Iceman or Archangel. I'd like to see them on the X-Men's side insted of Colossus and Gambit.

Not to be a pain, but, why is Plastic Man on the JL side instead of Hawkgirl?

I'd go with the new animated JL team:
Supes, WW, GL, MM, Bats, Flash and Hawkgirl
VS
Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Wolvie, Rouge, Archangel and Iceman.

If it was a one on one thing (which it's not) I think these match-ups would give the X-Men a fair shake.

Supes vs Rouge: She's not as powerful as Supes, But her ability to drain his strength (ala Parisite) will take him down.

Flash vs Jean: He can't out run mind-invasion!

GL vs Cyclops: Cyclops' power seems to be limitless. And with his control and precision he could blast anything GL sends at him. He just needs to wait for an open shot, or for GL's ring to run out of juice.

Bats vs Wolvie: This one's a toss-up, IMO.

WW vs Iceman: WW is a close quarters fighter. If Iceman can keep his distance, he can take her.

MM vs Storm: Storm is probably the most "powerful" of the X-team. Controling the weather is nothing to sneer at: lightning, hail, wind. But, MM does have that dang telepathy.

-which leaves-

Hawkgirl and Archangel. Hmmm.

I also think the X-Men have more experience fighting people with wacky powers. Also many of the X-Men's foes are much stronger than they. They're used to being the underdogs. I don't think the JL is as prepaired for a grueling, hard-fought battle, as the X-Men.

Remember, the JL members (with the exception of Batman) are all more accustomed to fighting solo (Though Batman is usually the boss on his team.) When the battle gets feirce they may abandon the whole team thing and get into their own, old rhythms.

When the fight starts the JL will be firing out jabs, testing the X-Men's power. The X-Men will come out swinging. The JL will stick and move, taking punishment, intending to outlast the enemy. But, the X-Men prove relentless. The JL, desperate and tired, start throwing wild punches. The X-Men keep fighting like wild beasts...

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Spirit
How do you do the cool quote blocks everyone does on here ...
can anyone spare a few moments for a tutorial.

Sure. At the top of a post is a list of possible actions: Reply, Edit/Delete, Profile, PM, Search, Buddy. If you hit "Reply" in that list, it will open up a message box just like the one that opens when you hit "post reply," except that it will contain the message that you are replying to as a quotation.

For instance, here's what this here note looks like in the message-editor box as I type it (but with braces { } instead of brackets [ ] around the formatting codes):



{QUOTE}{i}Originally posted by The Spirit {/i}
{B}How do you do the cool quote blocks everyone does on here ...
can anyone spare a few moments for a tutorial. {/B}{/QUOTE}

Sure. At the top of a post is a list of possible actions:

and so on

Hope this helps! :)