Queens - a terrible accident, not a terrorist act.

[Frozen]

Words cannot articulate the numb horror I feel as news filters in about this latest nightmare to strike New York, but, please, evidence suggests this is NOT an act of terrorism, but a terrible terrible accident - let us not see more of the world-wide knee jerk racism and hysteria that served only to compound the appauling devastation of September 11th...

The memories of those lost in this latest tragedy will be ill-served by using their loss to fan the flames of international war. Let us please just let them rest in peace.

[kiddiesunshine]

ok.

[James Harvey]

I agree with you, Frozen. I suggest everyone bookmark the link below and check it throguhout the day and subsequent days:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/12/newyork.crash/index.html

[DR. BELCH]

There are some conspiracy theorists who are claiming that Osama directed this attack as part of a revenge scheme against a New York fireman who told the Afghan Hound, in a public address right after the Emergency Number Bombing, to "kiss my royal Irish [butt]" and referred to him using a term for female canines, saying "Look at this face!" I wonder what he thought of Parker and Stone's take on him last Wednesday night, then.... :rolleyes:
Regardless, many New Yorkers--in fact, likely Americans in general--are rattled, angry, and paranoid about boarding airplanes, and this isn't helping matters any.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
Regardless, many New Yorkers--in fact, likely Americans in general--are rattled, angry, and paranoid about boarding airplanes, and this isn't helping matters any. True, if it is sabotage in a form of a bomb then you got to wonder about security if it is sabotage in form of a work crew messing with the plane then you have to wonder about the screening process they are using. And if it is simply a lack of mantinance (the a300 has not been made for years) then you have to wonder if airlines takes safty seriously.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

On the other hand, the Binny-Laden terrorists usually send clearer messages--this one's a little too ambiguous, and who wants to send an ambiguous "it could be sabotage" message the U.S. government could easily cover up (so that they don't get accused for another breakdown of security)? They want to send one loud and clear, leaving no doubt in the public's mind that they are being terrorized. No point in terrorizing the public with something that almost looks like an accident.

I could be wrong, though. It's almost exactly 2 months after the first one.

[Calhoun07]

Has there been any word on what caused the accident? Did somebody tinker with the engine to make it fall off?

I personally think it's just one of those things. This isn't the first plane crash in history, it's just that this one is poorly timed.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
On the other hand, the Binny-Laden terrorists usually send clearer messages--this one's a little too ambiguous, and who wants to send an ambiguous "it could be sabotage" message the U.S. government could easily cover up (so that they don't get accused for another breakdown of security)? They want to send one loud and clear, leaving no doubt in the public's mind that they are being terrorized. No point in terrorizing the public with something that almost looks like an accident.

I could be wrong, though. It's almost exactly 2 months after the first one. Well think of it this way. Before the crash Canada 3000 had a slim chance of survive now the banks are gona foreclose on their ass. The crash is gona hurt the airline industry bad since they look bad now no matter what. Maybe there are tring to criple our ecomomy but if it is just engine failue then how did it pass the preflight inspection. After 9-11 the airlines should be checking every single plane before they take off, regular engine failure should be extreamly rare. As Van Horn founder of CP Rail said many years ago after a train wreak you better as hell make sure you don't have another one any time soon no matter what it costs ya this should not have happened this soon.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Has there been any word on what caused the accident? Did somebody tinker with the engine to make it fall off?

I personally think it's just one of those things. This isn't the first plane crash in history, it's just that this one is poorly timed. Again I truly thing it is odd that this happened this close since if the airlines had half a brain they would precheck ever plane taking off and if you do that (which was not done before 9-11) then plane crashes like we seen today is very extreamly rare. The airline industry had a pretty bad safty record before 9-11 and this would be the time to chage it. Another example would be after the TTC subway crash where they replaced and upgraded all the singles after they cleaned up the crash.

[James Harvey]

I think this is terrible. I think they should have inspected the planes furthur. There must be obvious damage for a part of the engine to just fall off like that. The distance of both crash sites show that this wasn't just a lose wire or a missing bolt - but substansial damage.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox
Again I truly thing it is odd that this happened this close since if the airlines had half a brain they would precheck ever plane taking off and if you do that (which was not done before 9-11)

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the airline industry. If even the state can be half as stupid (and there have been some stupid actions by some governments lately, Canada and the U.S.), then one can surely top that with greater stupidity.

But terrorists damaging the economy could be a good reason, and logical.

Of course, people could be so concerned about sneaky looking Arab suspects that they overlook a simple thing such as prechecking engines. Happened before.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the airline industry. If even the state can be half as stupid (and there have been some stupid actions by some governments lately, Canada and the U.S.), then one can surely top that with greater stupidity. *sigh* back in the golden age of rails after a train wreak in North American most of the railways in North America doubled safty efforts for months.



Of course, people could be so concerned about sneaky looking Arab suspects that they overlook a simple thing such as prechecking engines. Happened before. Or they didn't let the guy that was suppose to check the engines near the plane for security reasons.

[Failure]

I wouldn't put it past the airline companies to have actually cut their plane checking procedures due to the higher costs incurred with increased security checkups. Since they've gone into a tremendous economic decline, they could've been trying to cut corners wherever they could, and accidents like these are so rare it's possible they figured they could snake out of it. That said, this is a terrible tragedy and the timing just couldn't be worse.

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by Failure
That said, this is a terrible tragedy and the timing just couldn't be worse.

Or the place. I agree with what everyone else has said about it being most probably was an accident, but it is very odd coincidence that it was in the middle of all of these events in New York, on top of it all. Anyways, they have already found some of the recorders and they should be able to get lots of information about what was wrong with the plane.

I also agree with what you said about terrorists, LLJ. If they wanted to terrorize us, they probably would've sent a clearer message instead of something that could be interpreted as an accident. That was what helped calm me down about it a bit when I first heard about it. Naturally, when you first hear about these things, you expect the worst.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
I also agree with what you said about terrorists, LLJ. If they wanted to terrorize us, they probably would've sent a clearer message instead of something that could be interpreted as an accident. That was what helped calm me down about it a bit when I first heard about it. Naturally, when you first hear about these things, you expect the worst. Well as I said it would be a logical move for the terrorist to sabotage the plane and make it look like mechanical neglect thus being another blow for the airline industry. People would be more scared to fly if they have to worry about terrorist plus the fact that the plane might fall out of they sky on its own. Remeber noone clamed credit for the WTC crash.

on the other side if it was neglect maybe terrorist would think twice before boarding a plane since the plane might go down on its own before they can take control of the plane.

In any event I'm sticking to small planes for awhile due to me being chicken.

[tvisland]

I usually never get political on the net... but a Wiseman
once said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"
And so let's not run around like headless chickens.
but let's stand up to fear. whom ever it's name maybe.

[RockItShipper]

Well, I've flown on one of those same planes to Santa Domingo... earlier this summer. Back then, there was an armed guard visible onboard. I imagine it got beefed up after 9-11, too...

[tvisland]

When I was a little boy we looked in awe at the promises of the new Millennium and all the technological wonders we were going to have...this was going to be almost like living with
the "jetsons" how Naive and what a rude awakening
oh well...

[Killtacular]

Guys.

Before 9-11, airplane crashes happened at least twice a week, and were in the news quite often, though treated rather subtlely.

Since 9-11, there has only been one crash in India. We've had at least 2 and a half months without a plane crash.

That is pretty damn good, if you ask me. Your chances of dying on an airplane are still no higher than being eaten alive by a shark.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
That is pretty damn good, if you ask me. Your chances of dying on an airplane are still no higher than being eaten alive by a shark.

Wait, aren't shark attacks more rare than plane crashes?

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Guys.

Before 9-11, airplane crashes happened at least twice a week, and were in the news quite often, though treated rather subtlely.

Since 9-11, there has only been one crash in India. We've had at least 2 and a half months without a plane crash.

That is pretty damn good, if you ask me. Your chances of dying on an airplane are still no higher than being eaten alive by a shark. Yes but remeber the airlines now have alot less people to move and less planes in the air. In 2 and a half months we had one huge air crash killing over 250 passengers I don't know how many got killed on the ground plus lots of property damage while the rail way has yet to have a major acedent since the 2 and a half months and their ridership has been way up since 9-11. Thus IMHO the only reason we didn't have a crash in 2 and a half months is not steeped up safty mesures but less planes in the air.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Before 9-11, airplane crashes happened at least twice a week, and were in the news quite often, though treated rather subtlely.

We should make clear that this kind of claim (which still somewhat exaggerates the frequency of air disasters) applies to worldwide crashes involving every airline, of every aircraft type (including helicopters), not just to US airlines in US territory.

The statistic I saw here (http://www.esmerel.com/circle/numeracy/) puts the chances of dying in an air disaster at 1 in 6 million.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo


Don't underestimate the stupidity of the airline industry.

Don't underestimate the greed of the airline industry either. Besides, from personal experience that's been the part that cheeses me off the most. :p

Airlines do anything, and I mean anything, to cut costs. I think the answer is making the government take over security. If done right, it'll make all the difference, including setting rules and guidelines to go by instead of just precedent, like airlines did in the past. That just won't work anymore because of the size travel has grown to.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox
on the other side if it was neglect maybe terrorist would think twice before boarding a plane since the plane might go down on its own before they can take control of the plane.


Doubt it. They would consider it a honor to their God to die for their cause. They are like kamakazies.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Doubt it. They would consider it a honor to their God to die for their cause. They are like kamakazies. Ahhh but they want to kill people for their cause. If planes fall out of the sky due to lack of matanace the death of the people on board is the airlines falt. If they want to run a plane into another building and the plane falls out of they sky due to poor matanance technically they failed their mission.

[Calhoun07]

Then do they go to their version of Hell?

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Then do they go to their version of Hell? You know what. If there were not able to get out of their seat...I don't know.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Nightwing


Don't underestimate the greed of the airline industry either. Besides, from personal experience that's been the part that cheeses me off the most. :p

Airlines do anything, and I mean anything, to cut costs. I think the answer is making the government take over security. If done right, it'll make all the difference, including setting rules and guidelines to go by instead of just precedent, like airlines did in the past. That just won't work anymore because of the size travel has grown to. Well you could just let the airlines go bankrupt and hopefully when the dust settles the next generation of airlines hopefully would be more willing to spend more on security and maintenance.