I am so hyped for The Batman.

[Daredevil_2003]

I cant believe it, I'd never thought I'd say it, but this show looks really cool, I cant wait for some new Bats! I know it's not of the caliber BTAS was, but I really like the new looks, for the most part, and the whole feel of the series. Like I said, it doesn't seem as deep as BTAS, but when taken at face value, for what it is, it looks really kickass.

What do ya'll think? Still bitter about it? Looking forward to it? Really excited? Apathetic? Dont know what the hell I'm going on about? :p

[shany94a]

I'm definitely looking forward to it - four days to go!

[ArtificialIdiot]

I never thought I'd say this... but it coming to the US first is a definate advantage! I can read through talkbacks (as I don't really care about being spoiled), see what it's like and then take what matters to me into account and decide if it's worth while to watch it.

Not making my own opinions, true. But really, if people hate it for reasons I'm goingto hate it, then why bother watching it?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit bitter, though. That little voice in my head screams "give it a chance!" but it's hard to do when I just feel like I'm going to be supporting terrible images of established Batman characters (Joker, Scarface (maybe!), the complete lack of Gordon and Bullock) to a new generation while watching it. I want to give it a chance, I know seeing all the negitive things I've posted wouldn't seem that way (and I do feel bad about most of those), but I do really want this to work. It just doesn't seem right for me.

But then, we'll see, won't we? :)

[fatboy]

Not making my own opinions, true. But really, if people hate it for reasons I'm goingto hate it, then why bother watching it?


Hey look! A short cut to thinking! :p

[ArtificialIdiot]

Hey look! A short cut to thinking! :p

Hey, as long as I don't hit a stop sign on the way, I'll be just fine! ;)

[TimTwoFace]

I hope that the series is still a good, entertaining series - and I'm appreciating the "freak" angle they're doing with all of the villains.

My only sticking point, as always, is going to be the writing - if that's decent, I'll be happy enough.

-Tim

[shany94a]

As long as it doesn't devolve into the Batman TV show of the 1960s - hey, almost all of us grew up with Adam West and I know it was played for laughs, but one version of Batman like that was enough, thanks

(The car was cool - but how did West's Batman always get that exact same parking space right in front of police headquarters?!)

[fatboy]

As long as it doesn't devolve into the Batman TV show of the 1960s - hey, almost all of us grew up with Adam West and I know it was played for laughs, but one version of Batman like that was enough, thanks

(The car was cool - but how did West's Batman always get that exact same parking space right in front of police headquarters?!)

For many people (myself included) the 1960s Batman TV show was the first exposure to the Batman. For that, it has a place in my heart.


Then I saw what Neil Adams and Bernie Wrightson did and I was hooked. :D

[shany94a]

Yeah, the Adam West series is what got me into Batman, too - and I was glad he got to voice the Gray Ghost in BTAS, it was a fitting tribute. And nowadays I have to fight myself not to just plunk down the $50 for the hardcover Neal Adams Batman collection. Classic, classic stuff.

[Mister Intensity]

How did the "I am so hyped for The Batman" topic become such a downer so quickly?

Mister Intensity

[fatboy]

How did the "I am so hyped for The Batman" topic become such a downer so quickly?

Mister Intensity

um......have you READ this board in the last few months? Saying ANYTHING positive or optimistic for the new show is like putting up a lightning rod for negativity.
;)

[Daredevil_2003]

How did the "I am so hyped for The Batman" topic become such a downer so quickly?

Mister Intensity:confused: lol Downer? How, exactly? :confused:

[Mister Intensity]

um......have you READ this board in the last few months? Saying ANYTHING positive or optimistic for the new show is like putting up a lightning rod for negativity.
;)
Trust me, I have read this board for the past few months and there has been nothing but whinning about how The Batman isn't B:TAS (or some variation of "The Batman sucks") whenever The Batman is mentioned from people who haven't even seen an episode of the show yet. It's just a rerun of the preshow response to Teen Titans and Batman Beyond (funny how the latteris so revered that many on this board sees it as "continuity" rather than as the Elseworlds story it was intended to be).

Mister Intensity

[MattL.]

The reviews are biased. The posts are biased. Its Mystery Bias Theatre around here. It all stims back to the same old thing. They're mad because its not BTAS or their mad because its got an anime influence or their mad because its a superhero thing that actually *wants* kids to be part of the audience or all the above.

I adore Dini and Timms work, but based on what I've seen so far I think show will be the one thing that surpisingly few superhero fans want superheroes to be: FUN.

[Bird Boy]

The reviews are biased. The posts are biased. Its Mystery Bias Theatre around here. It all stims back to the same old thing. They're mad because its not BTAS or their mad because its got an anime influence or their mad because its a superhero thing that actually *wants* kids to be part of the audience or all the above.

I adore Dini and Timms work, but based on what I've seen so far I think show will be the one thing that surpisingly few superhero fans want superheroes to be: FUN.

Or they're mad because it really is a piece of crap. Ever thought of that? I'm not comparing it to BTAS...I'm comparing it to every other childrens cartoon on the air. The Batman was made to sell toys, more than any other show I've seen on the air. Hell, the toys are supposed to interact with the show, how much more can you want...

I do like the looks of future episodes--but the episode we were given to review wasn't that hot. It's hard for us to NOT say negative things about it when we're disappointed with what we see.

-BB

[Stu]

Or they're mad because it really is a piece of crap. Ever thought of that? I'm not comparing it to BTAS...I'm comparing it to every other childrens cartoon on the air. The Batman was made to sell toys, more than any other show I've seen on the air. Hell, the toys are supposed to interact with the show, how much more can you want...

I do like the looks of future episodes--but the episode we were given to review wasn't that hot. It's hard for us to NOT say negative things about it when we're disappointed with what we see.

-BB

Bird Boy is the man.

My review is now on News and Views for all to see ( ;) ), and originally was a little more harsh, for lack of a better word. I read Williams review, and took pleasure in the fact I liked it more than him. I re-watched the episode a second time to show my brother and I was just bored.

The thing is, as I said in my review, I've been watching Batman since I was 6, reading about him since I was 7, and currently watch him in JLU and read several of his monthly titles. To see Batman act so out of character from these representations is unconfotable, like seeing Spider-Man on an alien planet fighting animal people and leading some rebellion.

Different can be good. Look at Batman Beyond, it's Batman, Terry was a likeable character who's exploits I enjoyed. Sure he wasn't the Batman I grew up watching, but he was never supposed to be. I enjoyed his show for what it was, a new teenage take on Batman.

The Batman's tried something similar, and completly and utterly failed in it's first episode. It's premisis is baffling, it's Batman's 3rd year fighting crime, Alfred even baked him a cake. So, 3 years in, these new cops, whoever they are, suddenly decide it's time to start looking for Batman. The cop grudingly gets a new partner, just like, y'know, every single cop show in existance. Rush Hour, it's not.

As someone who's watched nearly every single comic to cartoon translation, I can arguable say, this is the worst pilot episode of the lot of them. To compare it to On Leather Wings, Night Of The Lizard or Initiation, and this is the loser of the pile.

It was irritating to watch. They had the oppertunity to make the greatest superhero cartoon ever. They're using Batman, arguably kiddies favourite superhero. And this is what they deliver? Bruce Wayne makes no sense as a character, contridicting himself at every turn. The Joker is a complete shell of a villian. The Joker. Arguably the greatest supervillian of all time. Alfred acts like Bruce's mother.

It's just a waste. So far. When more episodes premiere, we'll see. I took this episode for what it was. Crap.

[Red]

To all of you that are super hyped:

Don't get too hyped, unless you want a major letdown in yourself.

[Mister Intensity]

Questioon for those who have seen The Batman (if you haven't seen at least one entire episode, don't answer), would you like the show better if an original hero was used instead of Batman? I ask this because it seems -- since someone started the comparison -- from the criticisms I heard about Spider-Man Unlimited, the basis of those complaints is not due to the quality but more due to the fact that Spider-Man was placed in a situation that most fans aren't used to seeing him in (although he seems perfectly in character given the situation), even though such a view is rarely verbalized as such. Some complaints seem to stem from the perception that The Batman seems "out of character."

I like to repeat that I am looking for an honest answer from those who have seen the show and not a series of comments from folks whose only opinion of the series comes from the buzz around the show.

Mister Intensity

[Stu]

Questioon for those who have seen The Batman (if you haven't seen it, don't answer), would you like the show better if an original hero was used instead of Batman? I ask this because it seems -- since someone started the comparison -- from the criticisms I heard about Spider-Man Unlimited, the basis of those complaints is not due to the quality but more due to the fact that Spider-Man was placed in a situation that most fans aren't used to seeing him (although he seems perfectly in character given the situation). Some complaints seem to stem from the perception that The Batman seems "out of character."

I like to repeat that I am looking for an honest answer from those who have seen the show and not a series of comments from folks whose only opinion of the series comes from the buzz around the show.

Mister Intensity

Probably not. The show is still terribly written, mainly the alter sides of Batman/Bruce Wayne. I thought it seemed like Alfred was Bruce boss.

Still, I'd have liked to see this done with an original character, rather than have them do what they did to Batman.

Really not sure that helped... :shrug:

[Mister Intensity]

Probably not. The show is still terribly written, mainly the alter sides of Batman/Bruce Wayne. I thought it seemed like Alfred was Bruce boss.

Still, I'd have liked to see this done with an original character, rather than have them do what they did to Batman.

Really not sure that helped... :shrug:
An honest answer is always what I am looking for.

Mister Intensity

[Maxie Zeus]

Questioon for those who have seen The Batman (if you haven't seen at least one entire episode, don't answer), would you like the show better if an original hero was used instead of Batman?

That's a very good question, but it's a tough one to answer.

I mean, if you just changed Batman's name and costume and left everything else exactly the same, then it would just look like a chintzy Batman-knockoff, and then we'd have a whole 'nother bunch of complaints, right? :p

Okay, well, if you somehow gave me selective amnesia, so that I totally forgot all about Batman, and then showed me The Batman, I might like it a little bit more. As AS said, there is a lot of crappy writing, and that writing would be crappy no matter who the character supposedly was. But I will grant that the low quality of the story-work wouldn't be quite so exasperating if it weren't "Batman" at play. It's low quality and it's out of character, which is why most of the TZ reviewers are being so peppery about it.

[Killtacular]

Oh, they're mad because it's not B:TAS alright.. but that's inevitable.

Seeing as I think B:TAS is not the best DCAU series by a sizeable margin, I came into The Batman with.. I dunno. But despite what you'd think I'd say about the show, my opinion of the show actually came out the least negative. But I never really had the time to compile it into words.. I think most people would rather I didn't so that the reviews can look universal.. whatever.

[Bird Boy]

Seeing as I think B:TAS is not the best DCAU series by a sizeable margin, I came into The Batman with.. I dunno. But despite what you'd think I'd say about the show, my opinion of the show actually came out the least negative. But I never really had the time to compile it into words.. I think most people would rather I didn't so that the reviews can look universal.. whatever.

Yes...I'm sure we wanted completely negative reviews of The Batman, one right after another...


Questioon for those who have seen The Batman (if you haven't seen at least one entire episode, don't answer), would you like the show better if an original hero was used instead of Batman?

If it was any other hero, I wouldn't even care about the show to begin with. Maybe if it was about Robin, as Batman has the attitude of Dick Grayson somewhat, it might work better, but it still doesn't get past the poor writing. Again, this could just be an isolated incident with a poor episode--future ones may very well be four hundred times better, but it's not looking that positive if the first episode out of the gate is a stinky...

-BB

[Stu]

Oh, they're mad because it's not B:TAS alright.. but that's inevitable.
I tried to write a comeback to that, but :rolleyes: covers it so much better.

I'm a little tired of having this as an excuse. The Toon Zone staff were asked to write thier opinions on it and most of us utterly hated it. It's not Batman: The Animated Series or the moderators/reporters fault that this episode was utter crap.

[Maxie Zeus]

I think most people would rather I didn't so that the reviews can look universal.. whatever.

I'm the news editor: I pick which reviews run, I edit them, and I publish them.

So don't go peddling crap about how "most people" don't want to see a positive review to break up the monotony. Either you know I'm the one making decisions and "most people" is your code word for "Maxie"--in which case you're peddling malicious crap and should kindly shut up; or you don't know who makes the calls and are just making stuff up out of the vacuum between your ears--in which case you don't know what you're talking about and should kindly shut up; or you're too chicken to defy a nonexistent "party line"--in which case you shouldn't be advertising your cowardice and should instead kindly shut up.

If you've got a review, send it to me. You've still got two days. If you are too lazy to write one, don't use me or the phantom armies of "most people" as an excuse.

[James]

Questioon for those who have seen The Batman (if you haven't seen at least one entire episode, don't answer), would you like the show better if an original hero was used instead of Batman? I ask this because it seems -- since someone started the comparison -- from the criticisms I heard about Spider-Man Unlimited, the basis of those complaints is not due to the quality but more due to the fact that Spider-Man was placed in a situation that most fans aren't used to seeing him in (although he seems perfectly in character given the situation), even though such a view is rarely verbalized as such. Some complaints seem to stem from the perception that The Batman seems "out of character."

I like to repeat that I am looking for an honest answer from those who have seen the show and not a series of comments from folks whose only opinion of the series comes from the buzz around the show.

Mister Intensity
I can't speak for others, but when I watched it, I watched it as a fan of Batman rather than BTAS. I was never a fan of BTAS when it aired. It was enjoyable, but nothing that spellbound me. I was drawn in later on when I rewatched most for doing DKA and found what I had humbly missed on original airing. So I know for one, I don't look at "The Batman" with rose tinted glasses looking for the better days of BTAS.

It's funny that so many (and I point to know one here) who scoffed and bit at the show when in production now come out and defend it once people who have seen it offer opinion. I think there are few FANBOYZ in the Toon Zone staff, and being moderators are normally those who are opinionated enough not to follow the herd.

Back to the question... I think Maxie put it best. The writing is poor regardless of who the main character is, but being an established character like Batman, it does make for the writing to become glaringly more painful.

Those who think the staff are being unfair must bear in mind that I think most people's issues was the writing and voice acting rather than the images. Yeah, they do look weird sometimes, but there is a consistency there.

As for the writing, I literally had to turn it off for a break 5 minutes in. That's no joke, it wasn't a melodramatic call, it was simply the writing was so clunky both in terms of characterisation and general flow I was flushing with embarassment.

It's funny that there is a relative consistency in the reviews. Considering they all come from a variety of backgrounds and all done individually, I don't think they should be sneered at. Harley's is the one that I've read which I think really sums it up for me.

But then the only persons review that truely matters is your own. :)

[Steven C]

I could care less if its a POS. I'm still watching. I hated TT when it 1st come on and now I *like* it. Its fun for what it is and The Batman will be the same. Fun, nothing more and nothing less.

[creativerealms]

Well first it seems the show does not know what to be. While it uses dark characters and intense fighting it also has very corny lines. Now the Character designs are a mixed bag for me, Penguine, Catwoman, Man-Bat, and the sadly not going to be used Scarecrow look good, very good in my opinion. Other characters on the other hand like Joker, Mr. Freeze, and Scar Face seem a bit too strange for my taste. Scar Face for instance is a giant metal version of himself with the Vantriliquist, well he is floating in the air his hand still in Scar Face. Also I like the human designs including Bruce and Alfred.

I'm also worried about the voices, I mean Kevin Conroy's batman voice is more or less perfect and having anyone else do that will be hand to stumac. Same with the Joker, Mark Hamil is the definate voice of the Joker. I also hear that Kevin Michael Richardson tries too much to sound like Hamil's joker and fails at it badly. Then there is the choice of bringing in people from the corny 60's batman to do characters for the show. Yes I know Adam was in one episode of Batman TAS but now he will be is almost all of the new shows episodes. Now there are some voices I'm looking forward too though, such as Mr. Freeze, Scar Face (Voiced by Dan Castellaneta), Riddler and killer croc, but they are done by ether people I like or people who have dome DC animated characters in the past.

[Killtacular]

So don't go peddling crap about how "most people" don't want to see a positive review to break up the monotony.
No, I wasn't talking about the staff, I meant most people on Toon Zone in general don't really want to hear more "against the flow" talk from me than is already coming out of my mouth. If you want a review I can try to squeeze one in but I have two jobs right now, so the time set aside for that sort of thing has vanished in recent weeks. But I don't like being called "lazy" so I will do what I can.

My one negative comment was that the dialogue has issues, but otherwise The Batman excels in pretty much every other department. If they can punch up the dialogue, The Batman WILL be better than Batman: TAS.


I'm a little tired of having this as an excuse. The Toon Zone staff were asked to write thier opinions on it and most of us utterly hated it. It's not Batman: The Animated Series or the moderators/reporters fault that this episode was utter crap.
Well, Amazing Spidey, I have to apologize at least on account of you as your review is quite unbiased, so, sorry.

However I'm not entirely going to retract my point because.. the fact that Batman: TAS exists means that a level of standards exists in the mind. And it's not just Batman but also any Timm-produced series.. We know how good a Batman series can be, so I find it hard to believe that that could not possibly have affected reviewers' final judgement. If this were the very first Batman cartoon to air on TV since the Superfriends/Filmation cartoons, and Batman: TAS didn't exist... well, TZ probably would still have rated The Batman as having slightly cheesy dialogue, but I doubt reviewers would've said this show "insults the franchise." Or was an "unmitigated disaster."

I say it's inevitable that The Batman is being compared to Batman: TAS because it is! It's practically impossible not to consider Batman: TAS, and it's not like that's a bad thing... I don't know why people are being offended by me saying this.. if you look at most, if not all, of The Batman threads on this board, and in the reviews, you will find people, posters and staffers alike, comparing the voice actors of both shows, the character designs of both shows (especially this), the origins of Joker, the environments... Maybe you don't expect The Batman to be B:TAS, but you review it under the criteria that B:TAS did everything better. And there's nothing WRONG with that either. So there shouldn't be any shame in admitting.. just as I don't feel there is any shame or wrong in saying that Superman: The Animated Series affects MY judgement of Justice League. But just don't say you're unbiased about it. Kids are going to see The Batman without having seen B:TAS, even some of the younger posters on TZ may not have seen B:TAS and will be seeing The Batman for the first time. I'll be very intrigued to know what they think about the show.

In any case I shouldn't have made the generalization that it simply made everyone "mad". I didn't mean to discredit anyone's objectivity. I just wanted to say that Batman: The Animated Series, is without a doubt a factor, whether people realize it or not. And I guess it came out wrong. :(

[shany94a]

The Batman was made to sell toys, more than any other show I've seen on the air. Hell, the toys are supposed to interact with the show, how much more can you want...
Wish they had had an interactive exploding batarang like the one Batman used during TNBA/Gotham Knights ... fun for the whole family

[Mister Intensity]

No, I wasn't talking about the staff, I meant most people on Toon Zone in general don't really want to hear more "against the flow" talk from me than is already coming out of my mouth.
That has been my one biggest gripe these past few weeks, that there seems to be a stiffling environment for "against the flow talk," but that's another topic for another time.

I have no objection to anyone expressing an opinion about The Batman. My big objection is the complaining about the show and the comments about how it isn't B:TAS from those who have never seen the show. I read all of the reviews on this board and they come off as honest. Some of the reviews seemed extra harsh, particularly expressed in an environment that's waiting to say "see, I told you it sucks" before episode one airs, but if that's the reviewer's honest opinion then that's fine.

I have won't see it until Saturday so I have no bias either way. I have my own vision on what Batman ought to be. My personal vision of Batman reflects how the character was portrayed in the comics of the 40's, early 50's, 70's, and early 80's and I'm probably going to judge the show based on that perspective. Others on this board prefer Batman to reflect the B:TAS or current comic version.

A lot of people don't like to have the shows spoiled, but a the same time the whole attitude of "The Batman is going to fail" based on rumors, not on seeing an episode, also taints how someone sees the show. In many ways that's even worst than spoilers because while a spoiler tells you a little about what happens, "The Batman sucks even though I never seen it" provides a preconceived opinion that's likely to taint your opinion of the show before you get a chance to see it.

A reviewers job is to provide a heads up on whether a show is worth seeing but a reviewer provides a heads up after seeing an episode. Over the past few months Toon Zone has seen a number of posts with an opinion condemning The Batman by people who have not seen it. that attitude does affects people's views of the series and is somewhat scary to poster. The funny thing is we just went through this with Teen Titans but I hope we don't go through this with whatever is the next DC series that is coming up.

If The Batman sucks then it sucks but people should determine that for themselves after seeing it.

Mister Intensity

[creativerealms]

Also you can't judge a show by one episode. Some shows you can't even judge by seasons anymore.

[Style]

Yeah, some people on this board still won't acknowledge the brilliance that is Teen Titans. And I don't care about that. So if I end up liking The Batman that's great, cause I won't care they don't like it anyway.

[Maxie Zeus]

No, I wasn't talking about the staff, I meant most people on Toon Zone in general don't really want to hear more "against the flow" talk from me than is already coming out of my mouth. If you want a review I can try to squeeze one in but I have two jobs right now, so the time set aside for that sort of thing has vanished in recent weeks. But I don't like being called "lazy" so I will do what I can.

Okay then. (Though why you would be daunted by what "most people" in the forums would want when you've got that signature, I don't understand.) It's my job as editor to back my staff against all comers--which is why your comment got my back up, and I apologize for that. And your "unpopular" views are always welcome in my corner of Toon Zone, whether I share them or not.

Anyway, with your schedule and all, I won't look for a The Batman review, much as I would love one. Your Atomic Betty review is as much brilliance as I can take in one week. :D

[Stu]

Also you can't judge a show by one episode. Some shows you can't even judge by seasons anymore.

Those type of things tend to usually be the stories fault. For example, I enjoy Justice League, I just thought Hearts and Minds was a poor story.

This episode, it was the characters that held it back. Sure the plot sucked too, but I felt like slapping Bruce Wayne and Alfred everytime they were on the screen. And really, who in the world has ever hated Alfred?

The dialouge didn't help. The voices were the worst I've ever heard in a cartoon. Ever. :sad:

Still, I'll be back next week. Those who've seen the other episodes, such as BeyondGotham and LegionsOfGotham, say it gets better. But I'll be the judge of that ;)

Hopefully, Maxie will ask staff to review next week's episode too, see if anything has improved. http://wf.toonzone.net will also be updating it's The Batman section soon, with reviews for all episodes, presumably.

[Fone Bone]

I'm gonna tape them and watch them a few times. It helps me get my head around things and is good for clarication. If the show doesn't push the Timm DCAU off the air prematurely than I have no beef with it. I'm probably gonna enjoy it if it doesn't hurt JLU.

[EJill34]

My one negative comment was that the dialogue has issues, but otherwise The Batman excels in pretty much every other department. If they can punch up the dialogue, The Batman WILL be better than Batman: TAS.Let me just say that I'm not interested in starting an argument, I just want to know if you really mean that. I'll agree that the animation in The Batman is much better, and I'm even willing to say that the fight scenes will be better (even if they seem to be a bit too hyperactive for my tastes) but can you really say that the music, voice acting and stories are better? Even though I haven't seen "Bat in the Belfry" I've read enough reviews and summaries and seen enough screenshots to make a pretty sound judgment. Not a final one, mind you, but a preliminary one, so to speak. I don't think in any way can it compare to "On Leather Wings," the pilot of B:TAS.

So, would you mind filling me in on how "punching up the dialogue" will make The Batman better than B:TAS? If The Batman does somehow become incredibly good by the second season...great. I'll take back all the negative things I've said about it, but at this point time I think the only thing that The Batman excels at over B:TAS is animation. And let's be honest, incredible animation really can't save a horrid story (I'm not saving that The Batman will be full of them, because like I've been saying all along, I'm going to give the show a chance). I love looking at nice animation as much as the next person, but if the story is that bad, I tend to think that the resources used to animate that story were wasted.

[Red]

Also you can't judge a show by one episode. Some shows you can't even judge by seasons anymore.

The Animation is Bad

The Voices were bad

The Story Was Bad

2 out of 3 of those things will carry into the next episodes. Although I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up being all 3 out of 3.

[fatboy]

The Animation is Bad
.......

The one thing you can't say about the pilot is that the animation is BAD. :shrug: They also tried some stuff that isn't done too often in American TV animation (like the hand held camera effect, and slow motion too real-time motion bit).

Other than Samurai Jack, Star Wars and Bruce Timms' projects, what American animation do you consider "good"?

[Harley]

However I'm not entirely going to retract my point because.. the fact that Batman: TAS exists means that a level of standards exists in the mind. And it's not just Batman but also any Timm-produced series.. We know how good a Batman series can be, so I find it hard to believe that that could not possibly have affected reviewers' final judgement. If this were the very first Batman cartoon to air on TV since the Superfriends/Filmation cartoons, and Batman: TAS didn't exist... well, TZ probably would still have rated The Batman as having slightly cheesy dialogue, but I doubt reviewers would've said this show "insults the franchise." Or was an "unmitigated disaster."

I say it's inevitable that The Batman is being compared to Batman: TAS because it is! It's practically impossible not to consider Batman: TAS, and it's not like that's a bad thing... I don't know why people are being offended by me saying this.. if you look at most, if not all, of The Batman threads on this board, and in the reviews, you will find people, posters and staffers alike, comparing the voice actors of both shows, the character designs of both shows (especially this), the origins of Joker, the environments... Maybe you don't expect The Batman to be B:TAS, but you review it under the criteria that B:TAS did everything better. And there's nothing WRONG with that either. So there shouldn't be any shame in admitting.. just as I don't feel there is any shame or wrong in saying that Superman: The Animated Series affects MY judgement of Justice League. But just don't say you're unbiased about it. Kids are going to see The Batman without having seen B:TAS, even some of the younger posters on TZ may not have seen B:TAS and will be seeing The Batman for the first time. I'll be very intrigued to know what they think about the show.See, the thing is... it didn't come out right after the Superfriends/filmation cartoons. Even if it did, it wouldn't have held it's place on that pedestal for too long. Excluding the superhero shows that Timm had a hand in, the bar was still raised by a slew of other cartoons since then in animation and storytelling. Were I to compare the episodes of The Batman seen thus far to Pilot Candidate, admittedly, I would think it was a fat lot better... but I'd still rather be sleeping.

I do think that others are being harsh on the animation and layouts based on their dislike of the character designs. (I remember this scene from Invasion America where there was a 3/4 overhead shot of some soldiers running. I swear it was animated on 4's when it should have been on 2's and the proportions felt weird. Man, that pissed me off.) The characters were on-model and in proportion throughout both episodes and the animation moves fluidly within the confines of the character designs.

Example? I'm sure quite a few of us here have seen Mystery of the Batwoman. In particular, there's this one scene where we see Kathy (?) walking away from us. It's meant to be a seductive walk. (At least, I think that's her behind that was supposed to be wiggling.) It comes off as a crippled sort of walk, with her behind moving in all sort of directions God did not intend for one's derriere to move in. Her body also struggles (and fails) to stay in proportion as she walks away. That, IMO, is poor animation.

To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that anything could insult the Batman franchise more than the Schumacher (sp?) directed films. I don't think The Batman will be a failure. I think it'll hit it's demographic. However, as someone mentioned before, even as children they could distinguish between different levels of quality. (It's quite a few years later and I find myself looking back and saying, "Man, Voltron really wasn't as good as I remembered. Maybe I won't buy it on DVD. It's not even worth the nostalgia factor.")

What remains to be seen is if the two episodes seen thus far were the best or the worst of the bunch. If it's the former, I find it difficult to believe that time will treat this series kindly.

[ArtificialIdiot]

Seeing as I think B:TAS is not the best DCAU series by a sizeable margin

Seeing as you're continuously "pointing out the faults" of Justice League, may I ask what show you DO consider the best of the DCAU? And why, preferably.

[EJill34]

Seeing as you're continuously "pointing out the faults" of Justice League, may I ask what show you DO consider the best of the DCAU? And why, preferably.
I'm guessing S:TAS, most likely for the animation.

[Mister Intensity]

No, I wasn't talking about the staff, I meant most people on Toon Zone in general don't really want to hear more "against the flow" talk from me than is already coming out of my mouth. If you want a review I can try to squeeze one in but I have two jobs right now, so the time set aside for that sort of thing has vanished in recent weeks. But I don't like being called "lazy" so I will do what I can.

My one negative comment was that the dialogue has issues, but otherwise The Batman excels in pretty much every other department. If they can punch up the dialogue, The Batman WILL be better than Batman: TAS.


Well, Amazing Spidey, I have to apologize at least on account of you as your review is quite unbiased, so, sorry.

However I'm not entirely going to retract my point because.. the fact that Batman: TAS exists means that a level of standards exists in the mind. And it's not just Batman but also any Timm-produced series.. We know how good a Batman series can be, so I find it hard to believe that that could not possibly have affected reviewers' final judgement. If this were the very first Batman cartoon to air on TV since the Superfriends/Filmation cartoons, and Batman: TAS didn't exist... well, TZ probably would still have rated The Batman as having slightly cheesy dialogue, but I doubt reviewers would've said this show "insults the franchise." Or was an "unmitigated disaster."

I say it's inevitable that The Batman is being compared to Batman: TAS because it is! It's practically impossible not to consider Batman: TAS, and it's not like that's a bad thing... I don't know why people are being offended by me saying this.. if you look at most, if not all, of The Batman threads on this board, and in the reviews, you will find people, posters and staffers alike, comparing the voice actors of both shows, the character designs of both shows (especially this), the origins of Joker, the environments... Maybe you don't expect The Batman to be B:TAS, but you review it under the criteria that B:TAS did everything better. And there's nothing WRONG with that either. So there shouldn't be any shame in admitting.. just as I don't feel there is any shame or wrong in saying that Superman: The Animated Series affects MY judgement of Justice League. But just don't say you're unbiased about it. Kids are going to see The Batman without having seen B:TAS, even some of the younger posters on TZ may not have seen B:TAS and will be seeing The Batman for the first time. I'll be very intrigued to know what they think about the show.

In any case I shouldn't have made the generalization that it simply made everyone "mad". I didn't mean to discredit anyone's objectivity. I just wanted to say that Batman: The Animated Series, is without a doubt a factor, whether people realize it or not. And I guess it came out wrong. :(Matt answers the question on what he thought is the best DCAU series in his original post. All you have to do is read it (sometimes people need to spend more time reading instead of jumping to conclusions).

Mister Intensity

[EJill34]

Matt answers the question on what he thought is the best DCAU series in his original post. All you have to do is read it (sometimes people need to spend more time reading instead of jumping to conclusions).

Mister IntensityHe didn't say it outright. He alluded to S:TAS being his favorite, but didn't actually say "S:TAS is my favorite DCAU show."

[Mister Intensity]

Does everything has to be said outright?

Mister Intensity

[EJill34]

Does everything has to be said outright?

Mister Intensity
No, but he was rather vague about it, if saying S:TAS was his favorite DCAU show was his intention.

[Mister Intensity]

No, but he was rather vague about it, if saying S:TAS was his favorite DCAU show was his intention.
Why am I even answering for him? I really need to get a job!

Mister Intensity

[EJill34]

Why am I even answering for him? I really need to get a job!

Mister Intensity
Hey, I don't even know why this has gone on so long. Maybe I need a job too...oh wait, I have one...that doesn't pay very much...

[ArtificialIdiot]

Why am I even answering for him? I really need to get a job!

Mister Intensity

Because your just that great a guy and love us all equally? :D

Ok.. so maybe not. But still, sorry about that. I guess it serves me right not checking topics for days and forgetting things...

Still, it would be interesting to hear why. :)