Toon Zone Reviews "The Batman" This Week

[Maxie Zeus]

Toon Zone's news page will be publishing reviews of The Batman all this week. We've got a buttload of them slated to come out in the next few days, but Matthew Williams review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121058) is first out the chute.

[Style]

Uh huh, that's what I was afraid of. Batman poisoning Gotham Harbor is just too much too forgive. My only hope is that this only represents an unsteady first episode and what follows it up will improve.

Sadly, I too want to like this series. But I cannot look away, as suggested, because I'm a glutton for punishment and will spend the next five episodes looking for something to like.

But I disagree about the crappy looking villains. I still dig how they look.

[Conekiller]

Wow, harsh!

Now I want to see it to see if it's as bad as he says.

(welcome to the world of devloping your own opinion:D )

[Lunchbox]

Ouch. Poor the Batman. You tried.

I still dig the designs, though. And am I the only one who thinks that the Joker's line about his appearance is a subtle jab at all the uproar caused by the new look?

[The Detective]

Well......Matt was definately harsh. Sadly, the kinds of things he describes like bad voice acting and illogical story telling are likely to be problems of the whole series and not the first episode. *sigh* I'll still watch the first season. ;)

[LegionsOfGotham]

That review was far too harsh. I've seen the ep, and while its not perfect, its not THAT bad either. Certain relationships and plot pieces are set up for later episodes...thats how story telling works :rolleyes: You can't judge a whole series off of one episode.

[TimTwoFace]

Toon Zone's news page will be publishing reviews of The Batman all this week. We've got a buttload of them slated to come out in the next few days, but Matthew Williams review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121058) is first out the chute.
You don't hear the word "buttload" said so classily very often these days. I think that's more than enough reason to check out these forthcoming reviews. :D

-Tim

[TheScarecrow]

This show does sound bad, which is just sad given that Batman is such a great character that has so much depth and so much quality source material to draw from. I feared that this show could be another MTV Spider-Man. Looks like it is worse than that.

To think, if WB Films would’ve loosened up their territorial attitude, we could’ve had a young Batman show with Year One/Long Halloween/Dark Victory characters like The Roman and Commissioner Loeb, with Batman, Jim Gordon, and Harvey Dent all working together to bring down the corruption and crime while dealing with the costume rogues that we all know and love.

A shame it won’t happen now.

[Deadly Messiah]

So when does this show premier? I'll be recording it for a friend in Japan, but if it is on at the same time as TMNT, then I guess I won't be bothering with Batman.

[Red]

So when does this show premier? I'll be recording it for a friend in Japan, but if it is on at the same time as TMNT, then I guess I won't be bothering with Batman.

September 11th 10:30am Although it does say that right at the top of the review

[Paul_Cousins]

Toon Zone's news page will be publishing reviews of The Batman all this week. We've got a buttload of them slated to come out in the next few days, but Matthew Williams review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121058) is first out the chute.Oh God!! They actually did it!! It sounds like they made DC’s answer to ‘The Goliath Chronicles’.

I hope I am wrong on this. :rolleyes:

At least 'The Adventures of Batman and Robin' had more some good to excellent episodes like "Old Wounds", "Judgement Day", "Beware The Creeper" and "Mad Love". :cool:

[BeyondGotham]

The first ep was not THAT bad. While it doesn't make since to put the gas into the harbor, and yes those lines are cheesy.

The show is lacking the why. That much is certain. "Why are you doing this?" However, for a kids show, does that have to be asked? He's insane, he doesn't have to have a reason.

There are things I don't like. There are things I did.

All things need a revamp. I don't think Animated Bats needed one so soon, but since they did it.. I'll give it a big chance. I'll say my 6 year old, though he hates Jokers new look, loved the show, and kept quoting stuff from it. And when it comes down to it. Thats why they made it. For the kids.

[Paul_Cousins]

BeyondGotham, the problem is not that it is a kids' show, S:TAS was a kids' show, the problem is that it is a poorly thought-out, low quality content kids' show.

Just because it's a kid's show is no excuse for it being low quality.

[SilverKnight]

BeyondGotham, the problem is not that it is a kids' show, S:TAS was a kids' show, the problem is that it is a poorly thought-out, low quality content kids' show.

Just because it's a kid's show is no excuse for it being low quality.A 6 year old probably won't know that. Not all of them, anyway.

[Karkull]

That review was far too harsh. I've seen the ep, and while its not perfect, its not THAT bad either.
Yes, it was. I'm still working on my review, but I'm having difficulty trying to find something good to say about it so it doesn't sound like I'm totally biased.

[Paul_Cousins]

A 6 year old probably won't know that. Not all of them, anyway.When I was six, I was watching G1 Transformers and GI Joe (both of which I am still a fan of), and even at 6 I could tell the difference between something with quality and something lacking quality.

Of course I actually know of people who say we don't need quality education in public schools because the kids' won't notice the difference. :rolleyes:

[Knight]

Wow this series really sounds like a dud bythat reveiw. Batman realeasing the laughing gas into the citys water supply sounds beyond stupid but maybe the cities filtering system will clean it up. :D Oh well.

[Killtacular]

Wow this series really sounds like a dud bythat reveiw. Batman realeasing the laughing gas into the citys water supply sounds beyond stupid but maybe the cities filtering system will clean it up. :D Oh well.
Noone seemed to care about the final climax of Spiderman 2 so it's a little odd to see people shaking their heads over THIS.

[Eddie G.]

Noone seemed to care about the final climax of Spiderman 2 so it's a little odd to see people shaking their heads over THIS.Spiderman 2 was based on fake science but it was explained fake science. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Batman knew that the Joker's gas would be beaten by water or that water could beat Joker's gas so people go with their gut feeling that Joker gas in water supply=bad. From the review it seems that unlike Spiderman 2 where what Doc Oct did was explained, Batman just does it and we have to figure that he knows what he's doing.

I don't really mind the ending because I can presume that water is the secret weapon against Joker gas. Not that the idea that you can shove your head down a toliet to escape Joker's gas is that good of an idea, but I can accept it.

[Mister Intensity]

Some people are going to like, others are not going to like it but only those who have seen the show could have an opinion either way.

Mister Intensity

[thanos28542]

I'm not surprised at all by the bad reviews this show is getting. The second I saw Joker's new "cool' look ,I Knew this show was just aimed at the Gen-X crowd who don't know who half (if not more) of Bats villians are! So Bats gets rid of Joker's poison gas by dumping it in the river? WOW! I look forward to the primier on Saturday!:rolleyes: For all you BTAS bashers who even had the audacity to compare or say this show will surpass BTAS, you're all in for a rude awakening! Enjoy your 2 seasons of this wannabe Batman show! Don't forget to Buy all the awesome toys as well, since this is WB's main goal anyway! Long live BTAS!

[KidOmega]

Actually, if you put gas in water, it just bubbles to the surface and disapates. It would not poison the water supply. I think some of you may be a little too nit picky with this show. I was watching some of the older B:TAS on my Vol. 1 set and some of the episodes have pretty hokey lines and premises like, Joker taking off on a rocket propelled Christmas tree...RIGHT. :shrug:

[Deadly Messiah]

September 11th 10:30am Although it does say that right at the top of the reviewlol I never read the review. Well that is good then. 9:30 for TMNT, then 10:30 for Batman.

[BeastBoyWonder]

I've seen it; its not that bad of a show in its own right. Its just a bit unfair to view it in light of its animated predecessors, but I think its leagues ahead of the rest of today's modern "children's programming."

[thanos28542]

I gotta give you that one KidOmega! Joker escaping on a rocket propelled X-mas tree was "super" lame! I can think of a couple of other early BTAS episodes on Vol I that had some pretty hokie scenes. But you gotta remember this was 1992 & the writers & producers were still getting their feet wet . We're now in 2004 & I think the people behind this new show having access to 109 episodes of Bats, should have a better grasp of how Bats should be portrayed & how we as true Bat fans want to see him depicted. The 1992 series didn't have any good cartoon reference to go by. Superfriends Bats! Gimme a break!

[Marvel_Knight]

Wow. That review may be a little bit harsh, but I'll wait until I see the episode to judge. I thought I wouldn't like Teen Titans but I thought it was pretty good. I hope it will be at least enjoyable because I really want to like this show. I want to see more reviews. How many will there be (reviews I mean).

[Maxie Zeus]

I've got 11 (and there may be two or three more on the way). I plan on publishing five reviews (one each day of the week, up through Friday) on the news page. The other reviews will then be gathered and put in this forum.

[All-Star 1.5]

I'm not surprised at all by the bad reviews this show is getting. The second I saw Joker's new "cool' look ,I Knew this show was just aimed at the Gen-X crowd who don't know who half (if not more) of Bats villians are! So Bats gets rid of Joker's poison gas by dumping it in the river? WOW! I look forward to the primier on Saturday!:rolleyes: For all you BTAS bashers who even had the audacity to compare or say this show will surpass BTAS, you're all in for a rude awakening! Enjoy your 2 seasons of this wannabe Batman show! Don't forget to Buy all the awesome toys as well, since this is WB's main goal anyway! Long live BTAS!
Actually, most reviews I have seen have been pretty balanced acknowledging the shows faults as well as praising its' triumphs.



I gotta give you that one KidOmega! Joker escaping on a rocket propelled X-mas tree was "super" lame! I can think of a couple of other early BTAS episodes on Vol I that had some pretty hokie scenes. But you gotta remember this was 1992 & the writers & producers were still getting their feet wet . We're now in 2004 & I think the people behind this new show having access to 109 episodes of Bats, should have a better grasp of how Bats should be portrayed & how we as true Bat fans want to see him depicted.

You have to remember that that was those writers and producers doing a show about 10 yeard old veteran Batman not a 3 year old almost Rookie Batman.That's the problem almost everyone and their grandmother is going around saying,"that's how Batman should be portrayed", but if that was the case then people wouldn't be arguing over what Batman should do in all of these different forms of media.

[thanos28542]

I agree that this Batman is a rookie compared to 10yr vet Bats in BTAS. Then why make him in his 3rd yr? Just so he's in his 20s & younger & therefore more appealing to the youngbloods/kids? God forbid he's in his 30s, too "OLD"! The "Batwave" or whatever they're calling it , is what's really killing this show for me! Well that & the "Rastafarian Joker man"! Question, just how old or should I say "Young" are they making Bats in this series? In the comics, I believe he was at least 28 when he returned to Gotham city from his 10yr absense during which he traveled the world training to become the best Detective/Martial artist/tactician/escape artist/etc that he could be! So please don't someone come out & say he's being portrayed as being in his very early 20s or "God forbid", late teens!

[All-Star 1.5]

I agree that this Batman is a rookie compared to 10yr vet Bats in BTAS. Then why make him in his 3rd yr? Just so he's in his 20s & younger & therefore more appealing to the youngbloods/kids? God forbid he's in his 30s, too "OLD"! The "Batwave" or whatever they're calling it , is what's really killing this show for me! Well that & the "Rastafarian Joker man"! Question, just how old or should I say "Young" are they making Bats in this series? In the comics, I believe he was at least 28 when he returned to Gotham city from his 10yr absense during which he traveled the world training to become the best Detective/Martial artist/tactician/escape artist/etc that he could be! So please don't someone come out & say he's being portrayed as being in his very early 20s or "God forbid", late teens!
They're making him this young because of the upcoming movie. I think in the show he's in his ealy 20's which should make him like 25-27. I guess he was a very quick learner.

[Simpler Simon]

First of all, thumbs up to whoever decided to make the first reviewer someone who isn't an active poster on the DCAU forum. Or if it was blind luck, then its very nice blind luck because it makes the review seem less biased.

Anyways, was expecting a bit more from the writing. Hopefully the show will graduate to something better by the end of the season. And yea the first few episodes of both BTAS and JL had their clunky dialogue in places, so I'm willing to forgive.

[Maxie Zeus]

First of all, thumbs up to whoever decided to make the first reviewer someone who isn't an active poster on the DCAU forum. Or if it was blind luck, then its very nice blind luck because it makes the review seem less biased.

We deliberately went for a cross-section of reviews, and that's one reason we're running a bunch of them. That said, I didn't even think about this before putting Matt's review up first. So, I guess it's half design and half luck! :D


The second I saw Joker's new "cool' look ,I Knew this show was just aimed at the Gen-X crowd who don't know who half (if not more) of Bats villians are!

Actually, the "Gen-X" crowd is in its late twenties and early thirties (I'm a Gen-Xer), and we were in college when BTAS premiered. If "The Batman" is aimed at us, I hate to think what a show aimed at kids would look like. :p (And Nitpick Man is outta here!)

[Mister Intensity]

Why not have a Batman show with Batman relatively early in his career? Every other animated Batman portrayal features a Batman at the prime of his career. Everyone was clamoring for a "Year One" type Batman but since its not the B:TAS Batman everyone is complaining about the decision about starting him early. Sheesh, form an opinion about the show on its own merits not based on something that came before.

Mister Intensity

[thanos28542]

OK! My bad on the Gen -X comment! Heck, then I'm a Gen-Xer! So what is todays Generation's label? I really don't recall any huge amount of clamoring for a yr 1 bats. Maybe a flashback episode in BTAS kinda like they did in MOTF (Bruce wearing a ski mask in his early days)would've been cool. I'm gonna give this show a chance & watch all of season 1, but I still think it's gonna come way short of being in the same class as BTAS was. I hope I'm proved wrong. We'll see.

[Daredevil_2003]

That review was way too harsh, I havent even seen the entire episode, yet, I dont agree with how bad he says it is. The designs in this show are awesome, you just have to get used to them, I remember being shocked and appaled at some of the things in Ultimate Spider-Man early on, but now I love them and it's my favorite Spidey book. Just give it a chance, people, if you just take it for what it is instead of hoping for something like BTAS or Y1/TLH/DV you shouldnt be dissapointed. It's a new take, literally, and I like it, and the absence of Gordon and Dent doesn't even bother me much. Who's to say Gordon wont appear later? From what I hear, the one detective guy, the black dude, I cant remember his name, fulfills pretty much the same role as Harvey and Gordon, and ends up turning into Clayface somehow. Bruce and Batman's friend who is with the law ends up turning into a maniacal villain? Kinda like how Harvey turns into Two-Face? Sounds interesting. ;)

[James]

That review was way too harsh, I havent even seen the entire episode, yet, I dont agree with how bad he says it is. The designs in this show are awesome, you just have to get used to them, I remember being shocked and appaled at some of the things in Ultimate Spider-Man early on, but now I love them and it's my favorite Spidey book. Just give it a chance, people, if you just take it for what it is instead of hoping for something like BTAS or Y1/TLH/DV you shouldnt be dissapointed. It's a new take, literally, and I like it, and the absence of Gordon and Dent doesn't even bother me much. Who's to say Gordon wont appear later? From what I hear, the one detective guy, the black dude, I cant remember his name, fulfills pretty much the same role as Harvey and Gordon, and ends up turning into Clayface somehow. Bruce and Batman's friend who is with the law ends up turning into a maniacal villain? Kinda like how Harvey turns into Two-Face? Sounds interesting. ;)
How can you disagree with what you've not seen? That is bizzaro.. Having seen it and reviewed it, I can appreciate what Matt says. That said, all is in the eye of the beholder. You may disagree. I think we have to be careful not to dismiss opinions as being misguided just because they are harsh. Yes, they are opinions and therefore subjective, but they are fairly critical. Matt backs up his points there. While I am happy everyone is giving this show a chance, I don't think anyone can dismiss Matt's points without seeing it.

I know Matt, he's a sound guy and not one for melodrama. You may not like what he has to say, but certainly it's not over the top or spiteful. It is opinion, but he does justify his points even if you end up entirely disagreeing with them when you see it. :)

[Daredevil_2003]

How can you disagree with what you've not seen? That is bizzaro.. Having seen it and reviewed it, I can appreciate what Matt says. That said, all is in the eye of the beholder. You may disagree. I think we have to be careful not to dismiss opinions as being misguided just because they are harsh. Yes, they are opinions and therefore subjective, but they are fairly critical. Matt backs up his points there. While I am happy everyone is giving this show a chance, I don't think anyone can dismiss Matt's points without seeing it.

I know Matt, he's a sound guy and not one for melodrama. You may not like what he has to say, but certainly it's not over the top or spiteful. It is opinion, but he does justify his points even if you end up entirely disagreeing with them when you see it. :)I've seen about 3 mins of the episode, that's where I drew my conclusions on the dialogue and such, and I know how the story plays out, and based off of that I dont agree with his opinion, I dont see how that's bizarro, mate. :) I never said his opinion was misguided, just that it seemed too harsh, almost spiteful. Comparing this to B&R and saying they're of similar quality is not fair at all, imo. I can actually watch and enjoy this, I cringe at most of B&R.

[James]

I've seen about 3 mins of the episode, that's where I drew my conclusions on the dialogue and such, and I know how the story plays out, and based off of that I dont agree with his opinion, I dont see how that's bizarro, mate. :) I never said his opinion was misguided, just that it seemed too harsh, almost spiteful. Comparing this to B&R and saying they're of similar quality is not fair at all, imo. I can actually watch and enjoy this, I cringe at most of B&R.3 mins isn't enough mate. :) Seriously. You need to watch the episode. Matt really hasn't a spiteful bone in his body. He's not even a massive Bat-fan. I don't want to say much more before my review pops up. But his comparison does have some justification. How much I'll leave in the air for now...

[Alex Weitzman]

I have not seen this first Joker episode, but I did see the episode they showed at Comic-Con (the Man-Bat one), and I concur with pretty much everything Matt says in his review.

[Fone Bone]

When I was six, I was watching G1 Transformers and GI Joe (both of which I am still a fan of), and even at 6 I could tell the difference between something with quality and something lacking quality.

Of course I actually know of people who say we don't need quality education in public schools because the kids' won't notice the difference. :rolleyes:
That is a very ironic statement considering I LOVED Transformers as a kid. After I saw a few episodes recently I realized how insipid it was. (All IMHO, of course!);)

That said I'm going to wait to see an episode or two until I make a final judgement. But that review has got me nervous.

[TimTwoFace]

Spiderman 2 was based on fake science but it was explained fake science. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Batman knew that the Joker's gas would be beaten by water or that water could beat Joker's gas so people go with their gut feeling that Joker gas in water supply=bad.
All this time I thought that was just a poor attempt to set up a "Laughing Fish" sort of storyline. :p

-Tim

[shany94a]

Eh, I'll still watch. I hope Jim Gordon shows up in the series eventually, but truthfully one thing I like about this show is the idea that Batman doesn't have the police on his side. Gordon's always given him lots of latitude because he gets results, but this time Batman doesn't have that going for him - he's on his own, except for good old Alfred.

[ArtificialIdiot]

While this being year oneish and all, it's doubtful that Batman would have the police on his side to the same scale as he does in B:TAS... HOWEVER, the Batman/Gordon/Harvey Dent relationship is a very interesting thing in it's self. Especially if the rest of the police force is played up as being immoral or downright lazy (ala Year One).

Three men, with the same mission. Only in a perfect world, Gordon wouldn't trust Bats for awhile (t'd be a slow building thing, Gordon would want to try and work through more conventional meathods first), where as Harvey takes a more active role. The scene where he is hiding Batman behind his desk springs to my mind.

But, that's not too be. Although, IF the series lasts this long I get the feeling Gordon will show up for the sole purpose of introducing Batgirl to the scene.

[Style]

But, that's not too be. Although, IF the series lasts this long I get the feeling Gordon will show up for the sole purpose of introducing Batgirl to the scene.
Not if they use Alfred's niece Barbara "Wilson." If this series really is avoiding using Gordon, then I think that substitution would work more easily than introducing a character only to introduce another character.

[ArtificialIdiot]

Not if they use Alfred's niece Barbara "Wilson." If this series really is avoiding using Gordon, then I think that substitution would work more easily than introducing a character only to introduce another character.

There is that... but then you get the scary Batman and Robin comparison creeping up... I'd rather chuck in her and Gordon then do that! :p

Hey, anything is possible at this stage. They could even have her turn up on her own, just a little younger then Bruce. Nice way to throw the fans a bone with Jim referances (although, I doubt people would like Jim to be in say... Bludhaven as opposed to Gotham) and keep the orignal character.

Or just not use her at all and keep it a one Bat (and maybe a little bird... in time ;)) show. It's fun to speculate though :D

[Phantasm]

Why am I not surprised?
But I am a tad bit dissapointed because deep down, I somehow wanted it to be a success.What the heck, ANYTHING batman would do to content me.Just as long as it IS Batman.And this unfortunately seems like an animated batman and robin, only here, Jakie Chan replaced George Clooney.

[John6777]

It's kinda like Birds of Prey. I preyed it would be good and Tried so hard to like it. Even watched it to the very end. But sadly it just wasn't. Since then I have lost hope in most new Batman Related shows. So hopefully I am aiming sooooo low I will be pleasantly surprised.

john

[James]

Why am I not surprised?
But I am a tad bit dissapointed because deep down, I somehow wanted it to be a success.What the heck, ANYTHING batman would do to content me.Just as long as it IS Batman.And this unfortunately seems like an animated batman and robin, only here, Jakie Chan replaced George Clooney.Who knows? JL season 2 seemed to fair better that 1 - I'd like to think some of the changes there came from feedback. Maybe any issues in "The Batman" can be remedied in the future...

[EJill34]

Who knows? JL season 2 seemed to fair better that 1 - I'd like to think some of the changes there came from feedback. Maybe any issues in "The Batman" can be remedied in the future...
True, but at least the first two seasons of The Batman are already plotted, if I'm not mistaken. In the case of JL, there was a big gap between Seasons 1 and 2, which helped the creators remedy problems of the 1st Season. By the time The Batman gets to its 3rd or 4th Season, it may already be too late...

Oh well. I know I haven't exactly been a supporter of The Batman, but I am willing to give it a shot, even with all the negative feedback it's been getting.

[Style]

Why am I not surprised?
But I am a tad bit dissapointed because deep down, I somehow wanted it to be a success.What the heck, ANYTHING batman would do to content me.Just as long as it IS Batman.And this unfortunately seems like an animated batman and robin, only here, Jakie Chan replaced George Clooney.
Yeah, right Phantasm. I remember that little thread you tried to start a few days ago. You said that you wouldn't even want it to be better than B:TAS, that you always wanted it to be a supreme version. You've been a The Batman hater for months and it's a slap in the face to those of us who actually did want it to be a good show this whole time when everyone whose been bad mouthing come out and say, "ooh, I did want it to be good." :mad:

Oh, and everyone, STOP with the damn Jackie Chan allusions! So they did do Jackie Chan Adventures before The Batman. What's your point? Bruce Timm did Tiny Toon Adventures before B:TAS, and in hindsight THAT doesn't seem like a very good pedigree does it? If your going to bad mouth the show, at least wait for the episode and bad mouth it on something it DESERVES, don't just do a dig at the creators of the series!

[EJill34]

Oh, and everyone, STOP with the damn Jackie Chan allusions! So they did do Jackie Chan Adventures before The Batman. What's your point? Bruce Timm did Tiny Toon Adventures before B:TAS, and in hindsight THAT doesn't seem like a very good pedigree does it? If your going to bad mouth the show, at least wait for the episode and bad mouth it on something it DESERVES, don't just do a dig at the creators of the series!
Hey, I like Jackie Chan Adventures. And I agree about not insulting the creators. I may not like what I've seen of the show, but I never take cheap shots at the guys and girls behind it.

[Mister Intensity]

Geez, The Batman haven't even gone on the air yet and already you are calling it failure that won't last past 26 episodes. At least wait until the first set of ratings come in before making any presumptions about its long-term survival. Remember, you guys aren't the target audience (I'm assuming all of you are over 14) so your sensibilities won't even matter when it comes to its long-term ratings survival.

Mister Intensity

[fatboy]

......I'd like to think some of the changes there came from feedback.....

I think you guys sometimes give yourselves way too much credit.
;) I don't think b.t. runs back to his office with a print out of what message boards had to say about his show.

After all....if public opinion dictated how a creator approached his next project, Star Wars: episode 2 would have been ALOT different than how it came out.

[Phantasm]

Yeah, right Phantasm. I remember that little thread you tried to start a few days ago. You said that you wouldn't even want it to be better than B:TAS, that you always wanted it to be a supreme version. You've been a The Batman hater for months and it's a slap in the face to those of us who actually did want it to be a good show this whole time when everyone whose been bad mouthing come out and say, "ooh, I did want it to be good." :mad:


OFCOURSE I DON'T WANT IT TO BE BETTER THAN BTAS!
I just said that I would have liked it if it was a success...good enough to watch...but who says it won't...I mean, things aren't always what they seem!
Toddlers will give the show high ratings,I'm positive about that.

[sKorpia]

I'm not gonna call it a failure.

And I haven't seen the Man-Bat episode at Comic-con.

But I did see clips at the Mattel booth. Or maybe the DC booth. Anyway, on a purely vibe-level, it'll take getting used to. Especially Penguin cartwheeling amongst tree branches like the spokes of a wagon wheel. And yes, one friend of mine (who also posts here and saw the episode at Comic-con) did use the word "camp".

When can we expect more reviews up? One-a-day like a multivitamin?

[fatboy]

.....Oh, and everyone, STOP with the damn Jackie Chan allusions! So they did do Jackie Chan Adventures before The Batman. What's your point? Bruce Timm did Tiny Toon Adventures before B:TAS, and in hindsight THAT doesn't seem like a very good pedigree does it? If your going to bad mouth the show, at least wait for the episode and bad mouth it on something it DESERVES, don't just do a dig at the creators of the series!


There is more than that.

Different members of the current creative team came from alot more (and diverse) shows than that. Not a complete list, but here are some of the shows/projects people worked on before The Batman: Spiderman, Tiny Toons, Dragon Tales, Danny Phantom, Starship Troopers, Godzilla, MIB, Rusty and Big Guy, Fairly Oddparents, Ghost Busters, Megas Xrl, various web cartoons, various live action movies, various comic books.....



.........oh, and I almost forgot......THE ORIGINAL BATMAN SERIES! :eek:


As far as studios that the crew have worked at: Disney, WB, Film Roman, Dic, Sony,Klasky, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon,..

...oh wait, I guess thats all of the major studios.:eek:

So Jackie Chan isn't the ONLY thing these guys have done.

[Maxie Zeus]

And Amazing Spidey's review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121138) is now up.

In case anyone is wondering, there will be more positive notices going up. I'm posting these in the order in which the reviews were submitted to me.

[krazymed]

Show quality won't really matter right now. It's got the timeslot and the brand name. It's going to be a hit, whether we like or not. I just wished they had waited until after the Batman Begins movie, because then it might have broken some records.

[Road to Gotham]

This weeks Entertainment Weekly gave "The Batman" a 'B+'.
They thought the dialogue was lame but it was visually interesting with a good story.
Of course this is the same magazine that gave the "Catwoman" movie a 'B' back in July. :eek:

[SilverKnight]

Oh, and everyone, STOP with the damn Jackie Chan allusions! So they did do Jackie Chan Adventures before The Batman. What's your point? Bruce Timm did Tiny Toon Adventures before B:TAS, and in hindsight THAT doesn't seem like a very good pedigree does it? If your going to bad mouth the show, at least wait for the episode and bad mouth it on something it DESERVES, don't just do a dig at the creators of the series!Yeah! If you think it's gonna suck, then call it for sucking on its own merits! It doesn't need extra help!

:D Sorry. Couldn't resist. Carry on.

[Revelator]

This weeks Entertainment Weekly gave "The Batman" a 'B+'.They thought the dialogue was lame but it was visually interesting with a good story. Of course this is the same magazine that gave the "Catwoman" movie a 'B' back in July. :eek:
I don't trust them much, though their comments--bad dialogue, good eye candy--mesh with the other reviews so far posted. I'm a bit of a dialogue nazi myself, so I'm already wincing in dread. On the other hand, had I been in my early 20s when I first watched BTAS--and had the first episode I'd seen not been the Mr. Freeze intro--I might have been sorely tempted to give up on BTAS too, since there really are quite a few mediocre-to-stinky early entries.

I'm very much conflicted about this show: I don't want it to be bad, but on the other hand, if it's a success, it'll permanently put Timm's Batman on the shelf once JLU concludes. I feel rather sorry for the writers on "The Batman"--they practically have to reinvent the wheel. What'll you write gents? A fun disposable product for 8 year olds or a show that'll endure no matter how old you get?

[Mister Intensity]

Well, Entertainment Weekly is published by Time Warner. Take that as you will.

Mister Intensity

[Fone Bone]

Well, Entertainment Weekly is published by Time Warner. Take that as you will.

Mister Intensity
They also gave relatively poor reviews to Batman Mystery of the Batwoman and Teen Titans. Ken Tucker's usually a great reviewer but he HAS shown to be a bad judge of cartoons if the positive notices for Ren and Stimpy APC and Stripperella are any indication. Still he has been a big DCAU booster in the past. But I don't think he's biased towards the company he works for.

[Carrieattheprom]

Hi, I'm new here. This looked like a hot topic so I decided to throw my two cents in. I haven't seen the show yet, but from what I saw from the ads, it will take a little getting used to. I really, REALLY, don't like the way the Joker looks, but that's just my opinion. I'd like Batman's design a little bit better if they made the "ears" longer, you know, more demonic or whatever. His current costume(or at least his cowl) looks like Adam West's.



I don't know if I'll be able to watch the show on Sept.11. My t.v. is broken! Arrrrggggghhhh! I hope I can get it fixed in time.







Just one final question about the series- is this supposed to be a "dark" Batman or "Lite" Batman(as in Superfriends)





Oh! And will there be a talkback?

[James]

I think you guys sometimes give yourselves way too much credit.
;) I don't think b.t. runs back to his office with a print out of what message boards had to say about his show.

After all....if public opinion dictated how a creator approached his next project, Star Wars: episode 2 would have been ALOT different than how it came out.A comment which really annoys me, but I'll be a good boy and grin. :D

I wasn't alluding to the staff here affecting how The Batman will play out. Nor was I alluding to the staff's comments on JL affecting JL. I was saying that FAN feedback in general, from all message boards and all fields of comments may have helped shape season 2 of JL.

So please, don't put words in my mouth. My term I believe was "feedback". Anyone artistically inclined will listen to feedback to their work. Whether they feel it's fair or worth acting on is another scenerio. JL season 2 seemed to sort out the critical comments of season 1. Maybe it was just the creative crew had the same issues, maybe they listened to the fans. I don't know. My point was that negative feedback can be far more beneficial to an artist than gushing comments.

[Maxie Zeus]

Oh! And will there be a talkback?

Yes, there will be a talkback.

Welcome to the boards! :)

[Mister Intensity]

They also gave relatively poor reviews to Batman Mystery of the Batwoman and Teen Titans. Ken Tucker's usually a great reviewer but he HAS shown to be a bad judge of cartoons if the positive notices for Ren and Stimpy APC and Stripperella are any indication. Still he has been a big DCAU booster in the past. But I don't think he's biased towards the company he works for.
I remember the poor review for Teen Titans. While I liked Stripperella, liking Ren and Stimpy ACP brings down his credibility in my eyes :D . Seriously, his tastes may indicate some type of old school mentality regarding cartoons (say what you want about the Spike TV shows but they were somewhat old-school in style), then again people just have different tastes and sometimes what's sent for review isn't a good example of what the series would be like as a whole.

Mister Intensity

[BeyondGotham]

Just one final question about the series- is this supposed to be a "dark" Batman or "Lite" Batman(as in Superfriends)
Welcome to TZ! This Batman is Dark yet Light. It's not as dark as TAS, but it's not any where near Superfriends.

[Brian Cruz]

I've seen two episodes of The Batman, and while I don't have time to write a full-length review, I think I can sum up my feelings quickly...

I'm not going to rip into the show, because it's clearly not aimed at my demographic. If I was 12 I'd probably like it more, but I'd be surprised if anyone my age (25) or older cared for it. Being a kids show isn't necessarily a bad thing of course; Teen Titans is also primarily a kids show. The difference is that Teen Titans has intelligent writing, character development, emotional resonance, and other qualities not generally associated with "kids cartoons". The Batman lacks all of that so far, and seems to me (based on the two episodes) to be lots of "cool" dialogue, emotionless fight scenes, and cookie-cutter characters and plots; in other words, the kind of show people think 12-year-old boys want to see. While a show like Teen Titans transcends those expectations, The Batman seems content to simply meet them. Still, it's a lot better than most of the stuff out there, so I'm sure it'll be on for many years. Maybe it'll get better during that time, but I won't be watching long enough to find out.

[fatboy]

A comment which really annoys me, but I'll be a good boy and grin. :D

I wasn't alluding to the staff here affecting how The Batman will play out. Nor was I alluding to the staff's comments on JL affecting JL. I was saying that FAN feedback in general, from all message boards and all fields of comments may have helped shape season 2 of JL.

So please, don't put words in my mouth. My term I believe was "feedback". Anyone artistically inclined will listen to feedback to their work. Whether they feel it's fair or worth acting on is another scenerio. JL season 2 seemed to sort out the critical comments of season 1. Maybe it was just the creative crew had the same issues, maybe they listened to the fans. I don't know. My point was that negative feedback can be far more beneficial to an artist than gushing comments.

When I said "you guys" I was referring to fans in general, not TZ specifically.

And my point regarding feedback was this: sure creative teams take in feedback, but it usually comes from other people from inside the industry (other producers, directors, writers, and storyboard artists).......for better or worse.

[jadrax]

This weeks Entertainment Weekly gave "The Batman" a 'B+'.
They thought the dialogue was lame but it was visually interesting with a good story.
Of course this is the same magazine that gave the "Catwoman" movie a 'B' back in July. :eek:Well even i dont think its possable this (or almost anything else,) could be worse than catwoman ;o)

[Maxie Zeus]

Tuesday's review went up real late last night. Today's review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121174) (from screw on head) is up relatively early.

[Killtacular]

Screw on Head's review closely matches my opinion... though I wouldn't say the VAs are uninspired. They're clearly inspired.. to imitate. At least. The only voice actor I didn't like in The Batman was the voice of the black detective, but it wasn't just his acting but the dialogue attached to it. He reminds me of Green Lantern.. so stereotypically written.

[shany94a]

That was a really well-written review - he didn't say it was the greatest thing he ever saw, but he didn't crucify its weak points, either. Maybe "The Batman" will find itself with time - perhaps it never will, but I know I'll probably watch every episode, anyway. Guess I can always turn down the sound and just look at the pretty pictures ...

[creativerealms]

The Batman looks to me like a show that does not know what it wants to be. The reviews bring this up too. The look of the show dark, and from what I have seen of the pics so far at least two villians get Batman pretty badly beaten up. Yet on the otherhand is the iffy character designs, corny lines, and voice actors who are trying too hard to sound like their B.TAS counterparts. There lies another problem, while the character designs give the impression that the show wants to be very different from TAS the VA's attempt to immatate the TAS voices.


This show needs to figure out what it is and fast and then run with that. If it does not it will fall flat on its face. This is comming from one of the bigger supporters in this show.

[ZorBrak]

I'm going to have trouble even giving it a chance. I HATE TT. So I'm sure I'll hate this. It's like WB has reverted to making all cartoons for kids...but not only that...kids that are raised watching BAD cartoons. Those kids need a good dose of classic TMNT (Although the new one is highly acceptable...it's one of the few good modern toons). Not 4kids mutilated crap and a show that opens with politically correc selected children smiling and screaming "BRING ON THE BATMAN". Next time it will be a midget with down syndrome in a wheel chair and he'll help Batman solve a mystery. Wow I continue to hate WB.

[James]

The Batman looks to me like a show that does not know what it wants to be. The reviews bring this up too. The look of the show dark, and from what I have seen of the pics so far at least two villians get Batman pretty badly beaten up. Yet on the otherhand is the iffy character designs, corny lines, and voice actors who are trying too hard to sound like their B.TAS counterparts. There lies another problem, while the character designs give the impression that the show wants to be very different from TAS the VA's attempt to immatate the TAS voices.

This show needs to figure out what it is and fast and then run with that. If it does not it will fall flat on its face. This is comming from one of the bigger supporters in this show.
I think the problem is that the company new precisely what they wanted the show to be. Something colourful, light and to see lots and lots of toys. The poor production team had trouble from the beginning. Without the heavy artistic theme of Burton's film to "inspire" Warners into a fitting style, they've tried to do an X-Men Evol on a dark theme and it seems the whole conflict of ideas, intent and production has made the whole show pretty messy and confused.. unable to find an artistic identity. I think the characters probably suffer because of this. The need to sell this to kids has made characters overly carictature. They aren't given the scope to be serious or deep and thus almost seem a parody of what they intend to be... :p

I should shut up now. I've already done my review, I just can't help reflecting on what people are saying here... soz! :)

[Style]

OFCOURSE I DON'T WANT IT TO BE BETTER THAN BTAS!

Okay, first Phantasm, let me apologize. My previous post came off way too angry and I shouldn't have blown up like that. It was mostly that Jackie Chan thing, which I still find to be an ignorant blow, but I won't get back into it.

But I DID want to discuss this point from your response. Before I do, I don't know it The Batman is as good as BTAS (and it probably isn't)from all accounts of the first episode. (but I do hope it gets better- I know I couldn't stand Teen Titan's "Divide and Conquer" episode but I love the show dearly.) But I want to know this;


If, The Batman or any other new version of Batman coming down the pike could be better than B:TAS, why would you not want it to be?

As a fan of Batman, (not just specifically B:TAS) I don't understand this sentiment. By the very nature of the definiton provided, such a new show would be superior to Batman, meaning it would have better characterization, better voice work, better writing, better visuals and etc. Such a hypothetical show would be better in every way. If I were to encounter this one day, I know I for one would be very happy. That someone has come along and made a new show that is not only worth my time, but wows me by surpassing what came before. That does not mean I would stop loving B:TAS, but I would recognize it for what it was, a great interpretation that set the ground work for this hypothetical new, better version.

However, if I were to deny the superiority of the new show to hold on to BTAS, it would demonstrate ultimately that I don't care about the quality of the work, I only care about the emotions attached to the work. It would be saying that BTAS is my favorite and nothing could shake that opinion. This sentiment worries me.

Such a sentiment means that any new version of the character is defeated before it is even underway. The only artistic reason to do a new version of the show is to try something different and hopefully surpass what's come before. But if as fans we hold the "BTAS forever" sentiment, then ultimately what were saying is "Sight unseen, I don't want your new show to be better, so I'm inclined to believe it's not. Furthermore, if it's not better, then it isn't likely to equal it either. And since it is not equal or better to BTAS, why have you undertaken the project?" What has happened is that it sets up a mindset where one is likely to reject the new project, and if taken to it's extreme, could cause the project to be rejected even if it were superior. It's a no-one situation, where not only are inferiority and equality not options, superiorty isn't even desired causing the project to be rejected no matter what.

If this sentiment is at work even to a little extent in people judging this series, then it can never recieve a fair shake. This is something I think we all must be aware of when judging it and endevour to be as fair as possible with it, which means also watching more than just the premiere, we should watch a few episodes before judging it's merits. (To those who know me on the boards, no I won't pick up my broken record and tell people how many to watch before judging... But I certainly am thinking it loudly! ;) )

[creativerealms]

Thanks for bringing Evo into this that show did not find out what it was until the third season when it lowered in "hip" and "cool" and rised up in serious and dark. However I doubt The Batman will be able to last that long. Evo did not have a very good cartoon to live up too while The Batman has a great one. It was easy for Evo to become better then the 90's X-men once it fond its legs but then that cartoon was not that good anyway.

[Alex Weitzman]

They also gave relatively poor reviews to Batman Mystery of the Batwoman and Teen Titans. Ken Tucker's usually a great reviewer but he HAS shown to be a bad judge of cartoons if the positive notices for Ren and Stimpy APC and Stripperella are any indication. Still he has been a big DCAU booster in the past. But I don't think he's biased towards the company he works for.
The fact that Tucker feels that the eye candy makes up more than enough for the dialogue to give the show a B+ is indicative of that age-old animation bias about the art form being for kids - and how that somehow precludes the need for wit and attentiveness to interesting characterization.

[dawnyoshi]

Wow. I'm glad to see I'm not alone on thinking the Batman is pretty bad. I've been thinking it was certainly going to be a downer compared to batman: TAS after seeing the man-bat episode at Comic-Con, but I was going to give it a chance.

The best way to describe "The Batman" is "Jackie Chan Adventures in Gotham City". Alfred's voice matches Valmond or whatever that silver haired guy's name is too easily...bad thoughts. Laughable at most, but eh...it's just been two episodes so far. I'll give this show a few chances just because's it's about Batman, and Batman royally owns other heroes in my opinion. =/

[creativerealms]

Only I don't expect to like The Batman as much as JCA. JCA is probably the best show Kids WB has right now, and I really like it.

[Fone Bone]

The fact that Tucker feels that the eye candy makes up more than enough for the dialogue to give the show a B+ is indicative of that age-old animation bias about the art form being for kids - and how that somehow precludes the need for wit and attentiveness to interesting characterization.
Erm, no, it just shows he has no pretensions of the show being made for adults. The dude loves South Park, and though his recent critiques of The Simpsons are way too lenient his boosting of the show during the early years is admirable. He also loves King of the Hill and Futurama (hates Family Guy. go fig.)

[Hatter]

Man, this has really been ticking me off. In my opinion,
THIS FORUM IS THE LAST PLACE ON EARTH THAT "THE BATMAN" SHOULD BE DISCUSSED.

Because you know, just know, that ANY and EVERY element of "The Batman" will be compared up against B:TAS. I don't want to insult you guys, but we're all B:TAS fanboys here. Fanboys react badly to change. Every "The Batman" talkback thread will be a constant stream of bashes and expressions of dissapointment. And because it's a bad show? Because it's no deeper than any other action cartoon on the air right now? No, because it's being compared to B:TAS, the best superhero cartoon ever made, the best modern American animation series, and the best depiction of Batman ever made.
WHAT could compete? Just admit it. The ONLY way "The Batman" would please the members of this board was if it was simply a new season of TNBA.

Comparing it to B:TAS is a wholly unfair comparison, in my mind. It's not being aimed at the same audience. It's not done in the same style. Kids are different than they were in 1992, and it's aimed at them. Hell, if I was a few years younger, I'd be diggin' it. It's being produced by a group of very talented individuals who are making a Batman series for 2004, not 1992. Two-Thousand-and-Four.

I mean, do film critics end every single movie review with, "Well, it was decent, but it doesn't hold a candle to Citizen Kane."?

I'm as big of a B:TAS fan as anyone, but I'm smart enough to know that it does us a disservice to give "The Batman" the fanboy lashing. I know B:TAS is dear to our hearts, but try, try, TRY, to look at "The Batman" objectively. Even if you do, and you still don't like it, hey, it'll still be popular with millions of kids who don't write essays about continuity or character development. I can live with that.

[maxnugget]

As far as I'm concerned I hope "The Batman" becomes a good show. I doubt even b.t. himself is so loyal to BTAS that he would actually not be happy if another show came out that topped it. All of us are such huge fans of Batman and the other DC characters that are desire to see "awesome" translations of the characters on-screen far overrides the desire to be the one who has the "most awesome" version or the desire for nothing to surpass our current favorite animated representation.

Sort of like how you don't have to hate "Batman Begins" to like BTAS or Justice League or "The Batman," etc. "Batman Begins" will probably be great, BTAS and JL are great, and there's no law that says you're only allowed to have one favorite and must despise the rest.

[Simpler Simon]

Kids are different than they were in 1992, and it's aimed at them. Hell, if I was a few years younger, I'd be diggin' it. It's being produced by a group of very talented individuals who are making a Batman series for 2004, not 1992. Two-Thousand-and-Four.
If I were 9 years old right now and knew very little about the original BTAS, I admit I'd probably love "The Batman." Hell I grew up on toon fodder like the original Ninja Turtles, which for all its nostalogic value is a far inferior show to "The Batman" in every way possible - silly action, laughable plots, bad animation. And yet we all loved the Turtles, we bought the action figures, the bath towels, that horrible green breakfast cereal, etc. "The Batman" will probably generate the same reaction as well - if this show's a hit, I guarantee we'll see Batman on a cereal box or can of pasta in the near future. And kids will buy it. Thats cool.

But if the show doesn't attempt to do anything special, if it just follows the numbers like every action show of late, you're not going to have many new Batman fans a few years from now. Batman will be another action hero. I stopped watching Ninja Turtles because I outgrew it. It didn't appeal to me anymore. If the new 2003 series hadn't come along, it'd be just another fad collecting dust on my top shelf. But Batman has stayed with me because of the strength of BTAS (and to a lesser extent, the Batman Returns movie). If they'd stopped making DCAU shows after BTAS, I'd still be collecting Batman comics. Maybe not as feverishly, but I bought a lot of em during that dry spell between BTAS and TNBA, so that would've continued.

So yea, if "The Batman" is totally opposite to Timm's version, if we all hate it and the little kids love it, I guess its okay as long as it gets new fans interested in the Batman mythology. But if Batman's going to be as bland and interchangable as other action heroes, there's really no point to this new cartoon.

[Alex Weitzman]

Erm, no, it just shows he has no pretensions of the show being made for adults. The dude loves South Park, and though his recent critiques of The Simpsons are way too lenient his boosting of the show during the early years is admirable. He also loves King of the Hill and Futurama (hates Family Guy. go fig.)
Callin' it like I see it. I'm not a regular reader of EW (I flipped through the most recent copy at a bookstore), mostly since I'm not a fan of their movie reviewers.

[Fone Bone]

Callin' it like I see it. I'm not a regular reader of EW (I flipped through the most recent copy at a bookstore), mostly since I'm not a fan of their movie reviewers.
The movie reviewers are cretins but Ken Tucker's pretty good. I read him every week and have no complaints.:)

[James]

Man, this has really been ticking me off. In my opinion,
THIS FORUM IS THE LAST PLACE ON EARTH THAT "THE BATMAN" SHOULD BE DISCUSSED.
You think we are all that biased? I'd like to think not. Actually I know not.

Because you know, just know, that ANY and EVERY element of "The Batman" will be compared up against B:TAS. I don't want to insult you guys, but we're all B:TAS fanboys here. Fanboys react badly to change. Every "The Batman" talkback thread will be a constant stream of bashes and expressions of dissapointment. And because it's a bad show?
Yes because it's a bad show. Sorry mate. There are a lot of bad cartoons out there. It may not be the worst, but it's certainly an iffy take on Batman. That's the question people here want answered.

Suddenly from being Batman fans, people are defending this show on a new level. People here like Batman. Whether it's BTAS, Batman movies, Batman comics. As a Batman show, it's not very good is what a lot of the reviews are saying. As I've said before, I have zilch allegience to BTAS. I like BTAS because it was a good take on Batman. I'm not interested in comparing it. I don't believe Conroy is god. I don't believe no one can do it better than Hamill, but this show so far shows little that will honestly make many Batfans say "Yes, that's a fine take on our favourite character."

So far as a cartoon, it's far from perfect, but it's not totally terrible. As a Batman cartoon I'm afraid it's not very good.


Because it's no deeper than any other action cartoon on the air right now? No, because it's being compared to B:TAS, the best superhero cartoon ever made, the best modern American animation series, and the best depiction of Batman ever made.
No, it's being compared to "Batman" and how this version of the myth fairs. Naturally we have to relate it to BTAS as it's a common frame of comparison. That's part of the journalistic nature of this source or review, but please, don't insult us all - including yourself - in feeling that's the only issue here - "Is it better than the almighty BTAS?".


WHAT could compete? Just admit it. The ONLY way "The Batman" would please the members of this board was if it was simply a new season of TNBA.
I can't speak for everyone, but I don't have any nostalgia or allegience for BTAS. I thought it was a very fine show, but I watched this objectively. I'm sure most of the other reviewers did too. Look at Teen Titans. That was a totally different take on DC and a different form of cartoon entirely. Most reviewers loved it. So I don't think it's fair to assume all members and reviewers will treat this more harshly because of BTAS. I've read the reviews and they all have issues I can appreciate pro and against "The Batman".


does us a disservice to give "The Batman" the fanboy lashing. I know B:TAS is dear to our hearts, but try, try, TRY, to look at "The Batman" objectively. Even if you do, and you still don't like it, hey, it'll still be popular with millions of kids who don't write essays about continuity or character development. I can live with that.
Well I think the reviews did. I must admit, I had fairly high hopes for the show.

Quite frankly, I'm amazed how many people are defending the show as if it's the victim of some evil and overtly harsh reviewers. I'm not saying that's your point Hatter, I've just noticed it a lot here. It's an interesting turnaround. I will be very interested to see what people say when they've seen it themselves. :)

[dawnyoshi]

right now, if I were to compare "The Batman" only to the other programs on Saturday mornings, I'd rate "The Batman" as one of the highest, up there with "Jackie Chan Adventures", "Shaman King", and possibly "TMNT". However, in general, The Batman will not hold my interest simply because it's designed for the audience that watches Kids WB primarily; many little kids from 5-10 that like fart/burp/bodily function/just for kids jokes. =/

...
...
*also owns Batman: TAS boxset.*

okay, so I'm a bit biased on The Batman as well. However, in a comparison to all of the other shows on, it's one of the best...that's about the only good comment it's got from me. Hell, at least it beats the crap out of Kids WB-editted Yu-Gi-Oh.

[Nick K.]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this...

Personally, I think the fact that Batman released a toxin in to Gotham Harbor can be compared to Superman throwing a helicopter into Metropolis' waters...

There's tons of crap thrown into the waters in real life and we still drink it, right? I'm sure that each of us can come up with our own theory on how they clean out the waters and harbors on these shows, right? ;)

[James]

okay, so I'm a bit biased on The Batman as well. However, in a comparison to all of the other shows on, it's one of the best...that's about the only good comment it's got from me. Hell, at least it beats the crap out of Kids WB-editted Yu-Gi-Oh.
You see, that's what I thought, but I'm torn. It does look snazzy. The model sheets are off, IMO, but like with all shows, you get used to it. However, I'm primarily a Batman fan. Nothing to do with BTAS. I'm not sure how much I can watch if the characters remain so off target. It does seriously - as a Batman fan - hard to watch. If I wasn't a Batman fan, then yes, I think I'd have an easier time, despite some of the dialogue coming off as clunky and child like. But my love of the genre makes it an uncomfortable view. I think I'd rather watch dumb shows like Jackie Chan who I have not one iota of vested interest in than a show which rips a concept close to my heart to pieces each week.

BTAS does damage it yes. Seeing a kids cartoon do it right makes it harder for a cartoon that does it badly. But I must confess sometimes I felt this show had more in kin with 60s Batman with West. It's not a genre I want Batman falling back into.

[Maxie Zeus]

TimTwoFace, a DCAU regular, reviews (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121246) The Batman.

[Style]

Wait, I was just thinking about something: Dumping it in Gotham Harbor wouldn't affect the drinking water right? That should be salt water, and all the drinking water comes from the river.

If he dumped it in the river, that might be real bad, but in the harbor it wouldn't affect Gothamites so much. Hey, maybe it's a set up for a laughing fish story. Wouldn't that be interesting if Batman accidentally set that off?

[Steven C]

Its funny that when the folks writing the reviews say something like "this is not BTAS". Then they go on to bash it.

I am a fan of BTAS and the DCAU (except Static, I cant stand that show) and agree nothing can replace it, but "The Batman" is not meant to replace BTAS. Its meant to please the lil kids watching and to sell toys. Plain and simple and looking at it like that, this show is going to be a success.

I will watch all "The Batman" episodes because I'm a fan, and even though I *think* (not sure as I havent seen the show yet) it doenst go in depth of the characters, the storylines are simple, the colors are really cool, lil too anime looking, or whatever complaints I have about it......I will still watch because its Batman. And hey, who knows.........the less thinking the better maybe, after working 40+ hrs a week, it might be a relief just to watch Batman + pretty colors + cool fighting scenes on my TV.

[creativerealms]

This reminds me a bit of when the new Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles was about to air with one minor difference, once the the positive reviews for the new TMNT cartoon came out people shut up. The Reviews for The Batman however have been mixed. The show seems to get the action right and is fun to watch but not entertaining in a batman sort of way. The new Turtles managed to please Turtles comic fans far better then the old show and even lovers of the old show quickly got to realize that the new Turtles is a very different show.

I see the TMNT shows and the Batman shows in the same but different light as it is the second turtles show that does them in a more acurate, deeper way.

Same here, the old Batman was a bit deep for a kids show. It focused alot on his detective angle and it worked. This new batman relyes more on the bats fighting skills so his villains are tuned into better fighters as well. This is more of an action show and sacrafices story to do so.

Now myself personally I want to see what other episodes will be like. Maybe they will have better writing then this first episode. After all even the best show has bad episodes and the worst show has good ones and Batman while a bad Batman show is not a bad show.

[The Detective]

Funny that most of the reviews so far have pretty all been in pretty much agreement though some have been more negative than others.


Though one thing really disturbs me......the mention of Joker's acrobatics. The idea of Joker flipping around and do gymastics is just not something that appeals to me. But alas, from the sound of the writing the show is for the fight scenes anyway.

[Revelator]

What seems to piss many people off is that The Batman seems like a regression compared to BTAS and its inheiritors. When BTAS came out, it was triumphant proof that you could make a movie/comic spin-off animated series that was a work of art in itself that managed to appeal equally to adults and kids.
Now "The Batman" comes along and it's regressed back to the "it's good and fun for 10 years olds but rather trying if you're older" mentality that's dominated most American action cartoons since their beginnings. It's like the possibilities for Batman's character are being rolled back, and years of progress are being erased. The character is being recalled into the kiddy-show domain he had to struggle out of in the first place.

I like to think that in America we're undergoing a sea-change in our attitudes to animation thanks to the care and all-generations approach demonstrated by the Japanese, who are comfortable with the idea of cartoons that reach beyond elementary school. BTAS indicated that Batman was a character who was better served by a mature approach rather than the light, we're-doing-this-for-kids attitude. So a show like "The Batman" just seems reactionary--a step backward for the character and American animation.

Criticism depends on a knowledge on the genres a critiqued work belongs to: a critic who issues judgments from the inside of a vacuum is worthless. "The Batman" is a superhero action show, and therefore must be reviewed in comparison to other superhero action shows, which means it must be reviewed against material like BTAS..or G.I. Joe or the original TMNT.

It is impossible to compare The Batman's limited approach to characterization to BTAS' and not lament how unambitious the new show is. If it's really meant for kids, than adults, rather than cringing through each week's botch, may be better off not watching it. The crew on The Batman have to please toy manufacturers and idiotic network suits whose contempt for children--and adults--is boundless and blase. That they decided to do a fun, gorgeous-looking show with little beyond pretty pictures is understandable but seems retrograde. They're not doing anything remarkable. Perhaps future writers will rebel and start telling stories that please not only the critical standards of kids but also their own. We can only hope, though we shouldn't hold our breath. When Miyazaki outgrosses Disney at the box office, then characters like Batman won't be at the mercy of empty-headed suits at the WB. That day is far off.

[Mister Intensity]

It is impossible to compare The Batman's limited approach to characterization to BTAS' and not lament how unambitious the new show is. If it's really meant for kids, than adults, rather than cringing through each week's botch, may be better off not watching it. The crew on The Batman have to please toy manufacturers and idiotic network suits whose contempt for children--and adults--is boundless and blase. That they decided to do a fun, gorgeous-looking show with little beyond pretty pictures is understandable but seems retrograde. They're not doing anything remarkable. Perhaps future writers will rebel and start telling stories that please not only the critical standards of kids but also their own. We can only hope, though we shouldn't hold our breath. When Miyazaki outgrosses Disney at the box office, then characters like Batman won't be at the mercy of empty-headed suits at the WB. That day is far off.
For a while B:TAS and its spinoffs started an influx of more ambitious animated action adventure shows but two things happened to derail that: Power Rangers and Pokemon. The runaway success of those two shows really derailed any attempts at broadening the audience of action adventure animation. In reality kids want to watch something just for them in a timeslot that's reserved for children. That want to be engrossed in an universe that only they understand and get involved in its minutia. While kids did get into B:TAS and its spinoffs it never became the phenomenon that Power Rangers and Pokemon. This fact doesn't take away from the success of B:TAS has had. The fact that it had so many spinoff, the toyline is still going on, and the existance of The Batman is a testiment to that.

In many ways its own success has led to The Batman. For a good two to four years after B:TAS, many television executives ordered a whole slew of action adventure animation that tried to capitalized on B:TAS's success but most of them didn't last longer than two or three years. Shows like Gargoyles, Phantom 2040, Savage Dragon, Ultraforce, etc. were made because of B:TAS. Like any trend, it eventually died out because there were a glut of those shows and children and television exectives have moved on to the next trend.

Yeah, The Batman is part of a trend of anime influenced shows that are made to sell a toyline. That's the economics of the children's television business. That trend will die, kids grow up, and The Batman will be an nostalgic memory to them. It may be hard for many of you to believe but, if The Batman is successful, many of those kids will remember The Batman as fondly as many of you remember B:TAS. And honestly, there isn't anything wrong with that. But if you don't like the show, please don't watch it.

Mister Intensity

[CtrlAltDel]

The character is being recalled into the kiddy-show domain he had to struggle out of in the first place.
Ah, yes. Your words speak the truth. No Batman series can ever top that of the BTAS during the early 90's. Why the new Batman shows of today have to be so immature and aimed for the elementary audience I do not know.

I won't base my opinion of the show off of one review, but I did have a huch it had no chance of being anywhere near a successful series.

[Revelator]

It may be hard for many of you to believe but, if The Batman is successful, many of those kids will remember The Batman as fondly as many of you remember B:TAS.
I remember lots of the shows I watched as a kid fondly, but I remember BTAS with more than goodwill. I remember it as one of the first daytime cartoons to explore the character of its protagonists in depth; I remember it as one of the few cartoons to accept a tragic vision of the world; I remember it as one of the few cartoons to talk up to kids rather than down.

Unless "The Batman" progresses beyond episodes like its first, it's likely that no kid would remember it with the intensity displayed by those who grew up on BTAS. Remembrance with fondness, sure, but perhaps not much more. It's important to say that lots of kids loved BTAS because the show's maturity made them more mature in turn; it was a part of growing up. Most cartoon shows simply appeal to the age you're at; BTAS appealed to your potential.

[fatboy]

....... and The Batman will be an nostalgic memory to them. It may be hard for many of you to believe but, if The Batman is successful, many of those kids will remember The Batman as fondly as many of you remember B:TAS. And honestly, there isn't anything wrong with that. But if you don't like the show, please don't watch it.

Mister Intensity

Judging from the amount of people who say nice things about the original TNMT, and Transformers I would say your probably right. No offense to the people who made those cartoons, but they were terrible.:sad:

[Style]

Judging from the amount of people who say nice things about the original TNMT, and Transformers I would say your probably right. No offense to the people who made those cartoons, but they were terrible.:sad:
I don't know. I mean, I bought the DVD of the first season of original TMNT couldn't watch it. But I've bought and enjoyed every set of original Transformers, because most of the time it was pretty good with characters I like, sometimes it was downright horrible and at times it Damn near brilliant. (Like the time Megatron used media manipulation to turn the earth against the autobots and drive them off the planet. Way before media manipulation was that big an issue.)

As of right now, I'm going to watcht this first episode of The Batman and assume/hope that it is not reflective of the quality of the show overall.

[Maxie Zeus]

The Penguin's review (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121337) is now on the main page. I've put the other reviews we received into the the official Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121096) thread in this forum.

(I've locked that Talkback; the mods here can decide when they want to open it up.)

Want a thumbnail of each of the seven reviews in that Talkback? That can be arranged too. (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=121339) ;)

Okay, I am now officially wiped out.

[MattL.]

About friggin time. Finally a review without the usual snobbery and from someone who actually gets it. Nice job Penguin.

[Nick K.]

Great review Penguin!

[Bird Boy]

About friggin time. Finally a review without the usual snobbery and from someone who actually gets it. Nice job Penguin.

Dude, you really need to watch your tone around here. I'm tired of putting up with your attitude and you taking a piss on our reviewers simply because you don't like the opinion of a show you have yet to see.

Seriously. Cool it.

-BB

[ArtificialIdiot]

Nice objective review and all Penguin. A very interesting, more positive take on events... however, one thing bothers me...

"Don't watch it like your eighteen, watch it like your eight."

That, more then anything really, pretty much indicates this show is not for me. Which is fine, I never expected it to be... but meh. :sad:

[The Penguin]

About friggin time. Finally a review without the usual snobbery and from someone who actually gets it. Nice job Penguin.I will become a god to those who enjoy The Batman! :o Sorry about that. Thanks, I found it wasn't very tough to like the show.


Great review Penguin!I'd like to think so. ;) Thanks.


Nice objective review and all Penguin. A very interesting, more positive take on events... however, one thing bothers me...

"Don't watch it like your eighteen, watch it like your eight."

That, more then anything really, pretty much indicates this show is not for me. Which is fine, I never expected it to be... but meh. :sad:Well no, this show is not for you—it's not for me either (we're both 24 btw). Few cartoons that air Saturday morning out there really are. What I meant was The Batman isn't going to make you think and have layer upon layer upon layer of things going on. Neither does the new Ninja Turtles and I watch that one every week too. All I'm saying is, this is a fun show that can be enjoyed, but you have to watch it with some of that youthful awe because not many Saturday morning toons are designed to appeal to 24-year-olds.

[shany94a]

All I'm saying is, this is a fun show that can be enjoyed, but you have to watch it with some of that youthful awe because not many Saturday morning toons are designed to appeal to 24-year-olds.

True enough. I read somewhere (maybe here on Toonzone) that some WB exec said he wanted kids to love The Batman, just the kids, and he could basically care less about the 20-year-olds and up and what they thought.

And as long as the suits have a show that can sell toys, we all know they could care less about anything else like drama or creativity. It's like a Chicago Cubs story I heard - one year they were absolutely terrible on the field, couldn't win at all, but club executives were ecstatic because of how many hot dogs they sold that season!

Guess "The Batman" credo is like "Spaceballs" - merchandising, merchandising. I hope the show gets better with time, but I am watching it much like a child would.

P.S. I enjoyed your "Batman" review as well, Penguin.

[James]

True enough. I read somewhere (maybe here on Toonzone) that some WB exec said he wanted kids to love The Batman, just the kids, and he could basically care less about the 20-year-olds and up and what they thought.
Well look at the teaser. It was a clear finger up at the Batman fan. Lots of kids going "wow Batman!" - it was saying this is a kids show, that's our mandate, that's our target. As I said, they've done their job well.

That said, give a website aimed at 13+ the show to review for it's members (who are not 8 year olds) and the staff who reviewed in - on the whole - reported so far as Batman goes, it doesn't cut it. 8 year olds will love it, but it probably would give a real kick to anyone older.

I don't think anyone means to disrespect the creators. They had a clear mandate, they did what they were told and did it well. They made a great little toy machine for the 8 year old kids which offers little sucstance for older generations and little longevity for the young un's. I can't see them enjoying the show when they are 28 - I'll be enjoying good Batman - in all media - till I die. That's the difference between good Batman and Batman "lite".




P.S. I enjoyed your "Batman" review as well, Penguin.
I found mine was closer to how I perceive the show so you were close Pengy, but no banana.. :evil:

[TheScarecrow]

What I meant was The Batman isn't going to make you think and have layer upon layer upon layer of things going on. Neither does the new Ninja Turtles and I watch that one every week too. All I'm saying is, this is a fun show that can be enjoyed, but you have to watch it with some of that youthful awe because not many Saturday morning toons are designed to appeal to 24-year-olds. I haven't seen this show yet, and won't be able to until it airs on Cartoon Network.

However, from what I've been reading about it, it seems like this show just doesn't do the character of Batman justice. No disrespect to the Ninja Turtles, but Batman is a 60 plus year old icon that deserves a higher standard than something that is simply "fun". I'm not talking about appealing to age groups. I'm talking about quality writing. I'm talking about quality storytelling. I’m talking about a creative process that can get all age groups feeling a wide variety of feelings, rather just one “gee whiz, that sure looked cool” feeling that only one age group is likely to get.

After all, was the marketing demo for BTAS really all that different than the marketing demo for The Batman? The difference, to me, is that Bruce Timm and Paul Dini and etc didn't write and create for an "age group" of any kind; rather they wrote and created Batman and his world as they enjoyed it, within the censorship limits for the age group the show was “marketed” towards.

I guess I can see where the "The Batman" bashers are coming from on this, because it doesn't seem to me they don’t understand why Batman has to be limited to an age group all of a sudden, when for years a wide variety of people could enjoy the character in animation without feeling ashamed of it.

I’m not really sure I understand it either. :(