Justice League (Detroit) Worst ever!

[thanos28542]

I was just re-reading my JL(Detroit) run of issues and I honestly have to say this has to be the darkest period in JLA's history! This team had 1 heavy hitter (Manhunter) then Aquaman, Zattana & the mighty Elongated man! Then they threw in a bunch of children of different ethnic backgrounds into the mix!

1) The Mighty "Vibe", AKA "Paco from da Bronx! He had vibration powers.
2) Steel- a guy who's dying body was rebuilt by his grandpa into a Cyborg.
3)Gypsy!:rolleyes: Wow! She had chameleon type powers! SCARY!
4) Vixen: Abilities to assume powers/traits of animals! The only respectable one of the bunch IMO.

During the "Legends" mini-series & all the related crossovers, Vibe & Steel met their demise at the hands of Professor Ivo's killer androids. This led to the end of JL(Detroit) & Kicked off the "all new" Justice League which IMOP was a great era of the JL!

I would like to hear from others that also read/collected the JL(Detroit) run & if you enjoyed or hated it?

[Wayman Tisdale]

I was just re-reading my JL(Detroit) run of issues and I honestly have to say this has to be the darkest period in JLA's history! This team had 1 heavy hitter (Manhunter) then Aquaman, Zatanna & the mighty Elongated man! Wasn't Aquaman(I would consider him every bit the heavy hitter MM is especially now) the leader of that group? He didn't do a bad job with the crap he had to work with, if I do say so myself. Actually my favorite team and I think it's Detroit as well was:

Aquaman
Green Lantern(Hal Jordan)
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Green Arrow
Black Canary
Martian Manhunter
Elongated Man
Firestorm
Red Tornado
Zatanna

For some reason I liked the notion of the absence of the big three at the time, I was burnt out on them from The Superfriends in 1985.


For some reason it got worse after that in the mid 90's, I think at one point there was a team with Wonder Woman, Hawkman(avatar zero hour), a zillion other unlikeable zeros like The Ray, Metamorpho, Fire and Ice, Guy Gardner, Bloodwynd, Blue Beetle and Booster Gold I remember that team irritating me more.

[thanos28542]

That was the team w/Bloodwynde who I think was really John,(aka) Martian Manhunter. They got their butts handed to them by Doomsday! Still, you gotta agree that characters such as Vibe, Gypsie, Steel & Vixen had no bizness being part of the mightiest team in the DC universe! Teen Titans or the Outsiders were more their calling.

[Wayman Tisdale]

That was the team w/Bloodwynde who I think was really John,(aka) Martian Manhunter. They got their butts handed to them by Doomsday! Still, you gotta agree that characters such as Vibe, Gypsie, Steel & Vixen had no bizness being part of the mightiest team in the DC universe! Teen Titans or the Outsiders were more their calling.
Oh no question, I agree, truly a black eye to the JLA mythos. Those characters were lame attempts at skewing younger and it failed miserably. The only positive I could glean from it was it actually nice to see a character like Aquaman who was usually relagated to background and strictly water based scenes get moved to the forefront for some well needed characterization.

I thought Aquaman was a very solid JLA leader(several times) but the knock on him as leader was he was a perfectionist and his personal expectations were too large for being aimed at a much less capable group of C-list heroes than the A-list heroes he was used to working with.

[Krypton710]

What about the short lived Justice League Antarctic that lasted about six issues and one of the stories involved killer man eating penguins. I mean at least Detroit has an actual crime rate but when you've been sent to defend a frozen wasteland where the wildlife out populates the people, it's pretty safe to say your Superhero career has hit a new low.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


What about the short lived Justice League Antarctic that lasted about six issues and one of the stories involved killer man eating penguins. I mean at least Detroit has an actual crime rate but when you've been sent to defend a frozen wasteland where the wildlife out populates the people, it's pretty safe to say your Superhero career has hit a new low.
I'm pretty sure that Justice League Antartica was meant as a joke specifically because it was a frozen wasteland with no sense of crime to speak of (although Greg Rucka did some pretty cool things with that theme in his Whiteout (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966712714/qid=1094496723/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-1481014-5128128?v=glance&s=books) graphic novel -- Ace sez check it out!). Whether the joke was FUNNY or not is debatable, I guess.

If I remember right, by the time Wonder Woman joined the League with Green Lantern and Aquaman, the Powers That Be at DC were trying to swing away from the bwah-hah-hah League of Giffen, DeMatteis, and Maguire, since it was collapsing under the weight of its own silliness (see above about JLAntarctica). A grand experiment which, unfortunately, didn't really work. After the last flareup, we wouldn't see a truly great League again until Grant Morrison and Howard Porter picked it up again.

-- Ed/Ace

[Wayman Tisdale]

we wouldn't see a truly great League again until Grant Morrison and Howard Porter picked it up again.

-- Ed/Ace
YUP, they really kicked that in the ass! In fact I'll go as far to say that they very much helped the Justice League animated series get off the ground by breathing new life into the comic book!

[Mister Intensity]

I wouldn't call Justice League Detroit the worst ever. I always felt it was a failed experiment rather than something truly bad. If any period should be considered the worst ever I would consider the Wonder Woman led, Dan Vado written Justice League, immediately before the Morrison era the worst ever. The stories were boring with a Capital B. There's nothing memorable about that League.

Mister Intensity

[Wayman Tisdale]

I wouldn't call Justice League Detroit the worst ever. I always felt it was a failed experiment rather than something truly bad. If any period should be considered the worst ever I would consider the Wonder Woman led, Dan Vado written Justice League, immediately before the Morrison era the worst ever. The stories were boring with a Capital B. There's nothing memorable about that League.

Mister Intensity
Now was that the one written by Gerard Jones as I tried to indicate above with Maxima, Fire & Ice, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Hawkman(zero hour, avatar version), Bloodwynd etc? I'm starting to lose my timelines in 2004.

[Wayman Tisdale]

I think Bruce Timm would agree with you. Go check out Modern Masters Vol. 3. But really, if Grant Morrison and Howard Porter hadn't done their thing than we would have had this JLA series with Superman as the leader and a bunch of New Gods, The Question, Black Canary, Supergirl, etc. as recurring guest stars. Well, we kind of have that now anyway, but at least we got two seasons of traditional JL.Wait "GMahler" I have a question, what is this Bruce Timm "Modern Masters" thing I have no idea what it is:confused: ? Is it a biography, can I get it at Barnes & Noble or Borders? I honestly see this thing referenced all the time and each time I would be like "WHAT THE HELL is this thing?" but I never really followed up on it. So if you wouldn't mind could I get a capsulized version of the whole story behind this series, if it even is a series, I honestly have no idea???:confused:

Thanks buddy!

P.S. By the way I'm loving this thread I could talk about JLA mythos all day. And that title is a great way to get the ball rolling about when it got really weird.

[Wayman Tisdale]

Modern Masters is a series by TwoMorrows Publishing that spotlights artists in the comic book industry. It's basically a 100-page interview and a bunch of drawings by that artist. Tons of never-before-seen stuff and I can tell you that the interviews are pretty candid. In the Timm book, he talks openly about the flaws of JL Season 1 and stuff like that. The previous two volumes were about Alan Davis and George Perez. Not sure who the next volume is about.

I don't know if you could get it at Barnes & Noble, but try your local Comic Book shop. That's where I got mine. You can also order it off of www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/) or the official TwoMorrows website. Here's the exact link (http://www.twomorrows.com/books/mm3timm.html)for the Modern Masters Vol. 3.


Sure thing. Hope you can find a copy because it's a great read.MY GOD, that sounds like a cool read, Bruce Timm above all the many things I like about him is very honest and stand-up!

For years now I've been amazed by and admired Bruce Timm's candor revealing the subtext of the network motivations and the myriad of behind the scenes antecdotes. Each time I would read an interview with Timm I would think "Omigod, can he really say that without getting fired?" It actually reminded me of the way Howard Stern would rail on Infinity Broadcasting management revealing what was censored and just who's pulling the strings or even in Timm's own field John Semper(Spider-Man TAS) REALLY unloading on network censorship. But like Howard, Bruce Timm must be too valuable to let go because he is truly an original pioneer and next to impossible to replace! Also Bruce Timm like Howard Stern keeps the FCC on their toes pushing the animation boundaries as far as he possibly could with adult themes and innuendos, and at the same time he makes it kidcentric which sounds impossible but he does it! This opens many doors for animators around the dial sophisticating kid's programming all over the dial!

Thanks GMahler, I can't wait to check that out tomorrow!

[thanos28542]

IMOP,the "BWAHAHA" JL was a different & fun era for the League! Can anyone truly say they didn't crack up when Bats KO'ed Guy( "I BITE") Gardner w/one punch! Blue Beetle almost had an anurism laughing/crying out loud "One Punch!,One Punch, Bwahahaha! We also had a powerhouse lineup w/MM, Capt Atom, Dr Fate, & Cap Marvel, too name a few! I still say the JL Detroit team was the lamest , weakest version ever! JL Antartica was just for laughs ,I didn't even include them as being a "real" part of JL history!

[Wayman Tisdale]

IMOP,the "BWAHAHA" JL was a different & fun era for the League! Can anyone truly say they didn't crack up when Bats KO'ed Guy( "I BITE") Gardner w/one punch! Blue Beetle almost had an anurism laughing/crying out loud "One Punch!,One Punch, Bwahahaha! We also had a powerhouse lineup w/MM, Capt Atom, Dr Fate, & Cap Marvel, too name a few! I still say the JL Detroit team was the lamest , weakest version ever! JL Antartica was just for laughs ,I didn't even include them as being a "real" part of JL history!
TOTALLY agree, I liked that team a lot, it had a different eccentric flavor yet it was kickass at the same time. I remember Captain Marvel beating the Martian out of J'onn in one mind controlled rage.

[thanos28542]

I remember that issue. The Grey man was mind controling them & took over Marvel & he whooped John good! I remember that the Rocket Red Brigade 1st fought the League in this series as well. Those were the good ol days!

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


I remember that issue. The Grey man was mind controling them & took over Marvel & he whooped John good! I remember that the Rocket Red Brigade 1st fought the League in this series as well. Those were the good ol days!
There was indeed a mighty beat-down, but at the end of that fight one of them was left standing and it wasn't Captain Marvel. ;)

I just re-read the TPB collecting the first six issues (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0930289404/qid%3D1094656681/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-9362459-3278240) in prep for a "J.M. DeMatteis" TPB Review edition, and found it to be an odd combination of really dated material (the Reagan-era topical references) and topics that were eerily ahead of their time (the idea of a terrorist attack on the UN, weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a dictator, and a need for heroes crossing borders in a GOOD way). I still have tons of fond memories of that era's League, which is one reason among many that I'm choosing to pretend Identity Crisis just doesn't exist. I far prefer imagining Sue Dibny very much alive and unraped and plotting her next big mystery for Ralph's birthday.

-- Ed/Ace

[thanos28542]

How did John finally beat Marvel? I haven't read that issue in forever! Considering that MM is the powerfulist metahuman on the planet, I'm not surprised he took out Marvel. Superman himself has recently stated in the pages of JLA during the " BURNING" 4 parter, that he can count on 1 hand the super powered beings he would not wanna throw down with & the Manhunter was at the top of that list!

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


How did John finally beat Marvel?
Captain Marvel (under the control of the Gray Man) and J'onn were slugging it out toe-to-toe. In the background, Dr. Fate was telling the Gray Man that J'onn was striking at Marvel/the Gray Man psychically as well as physically -- an interesting bit of expository writing that served a practical purpose of further distracting the Gray Man. Finally, the Gray Man's concentration lapsed and Marvel was free of his influence.

Unfortunately, Marvel dropped his guard and got royally walloped by J'onn before J'onn realized Marvel was back. One amusing exchange exchange later, Marvel passed out and J'onn flew him to safety.

-- Ed/Ace

[thanos28542]

Thanks Ace! Question for you & anyone else who wants to chime in: Which Rocket Red armor did you like/prefer? It's a tossup for me, I liked then both!