The Batsuit of Beyond

[Periphery]

'Ello, 'ello.

Just a quick (and pointless) survey I wanted to do with the people of this board.

Is everybody happy with the Batsuit Terry sports (and Bruce as well at one point past) visualy? If you could, what visuals would you have added or taken away?

I would have loved it if they never added the mouth in the mask. His teeth are exposed in every fight and anything else he might pick out of the sky while in flight. (Check out Lost Souls, he would have looked so much darker.) What if he didn't brush one morning, or since that is the least protected part of the whole suit, what if he lost some teeth during a fight? (On a side note, the Burger King figure with pop out wings, reminds me of an oni mask, which adds something to the overall suit.

And though it would have change the whole dynamic of Terry, I would have loved the suit with a cape. Or make the wings rest in a form or a cape instead going into his back. As Paul Dini said in the Batman Beyond ROFJ screenplay, the Uncaped Crusader dosen't have the same ring to it.

I do like the black and red over the grey and black of the New Batman Adventures, and strangly enough, I like Terry's Bat emblem much more then the traditional Bat.

Anyhow, as brought up in my prevous post, this really has no point since the show is many years old, and um, over. But I just wanted to get feedback.

Bliss

Alon

[Bird Boy]

Yeah, I miss the cape. but it wouldn't look all that great on him..go ahead..draw Terry in the new batsuit, and put a cape on him..doesn't look good..not good at all.

I don't mind the mouth being there..otherwise..his voice would be muffled all of the time, and his whole mask would move, other than just his mouth. That's why I'm sure we'll never see a whole masked character in any of the Cartoon series...it just wouldn't look right..

-BB

[Huntress]

I love the contrast of the red bat against the black suit and it's cool how all his 'accessories' are concealed (no pun intended LOL) - it's pretty awesome when the batarangs are fired from seemingly nowhere and the subtle sound effect when the wings retract is a nice touch. And those 'pointy bits' (for want of a better description) on the sleeves are pretty tasty!

I'd have to agree with Joker/Tim in ROTJ though; "... the ears are too long and I miss the cape ..."

I agree about the mask but then Terry hasn't quite got the right chin for a half-mask! He wouldn't be so menacing if people could see he was young and it'd look weird if the chin was the only bit of flesh showing in this suit. (I think the teeth/mouth are there just for effect - without them they wouldn't have much to use for facial expressions, or let the viewer know he was talking)

[DR. BELCH]

PERIPHERY ponders:
I would have loved it if they never added the mouth in the mask. What if he didn't brush one morning...?
I seriously doubt the kind of people Terry deals with cares if he's got a little plaque buildup or food stuck in his teeth. Besides, take a look at the Jokers. I bet those a-holes never even heard of toothbrushes. Anyway, he's got to be able to breathe.
As for the cape--with this costume, the slim capeless look fits. I noted in Spiderman: Unlimited the artists added a cobweb cape, and for me it compromises Spidey. Though Bruce made the cape work to his advantage innumerable times (in "Worry Men" he ties it to a line and sends it flying to draw Hatter's fire; in "The Demon's Head" he wraps up a wild panther in it, if I recall correctly; and in Barbara's fever-dream in which she saw herself die he fills it full of broken cement chunks and beats the blazes out of Bane with it). I don't know if Terry has his predcessor's resourcefulness, though.

[The Mad Hatter]

About the mouth... have you seen Lost Soul, where the Batsuit gets possessed? There, the guy controlling it (sorry, forgot his name) doesn't show a mouth, and it looks really inhuman. I know Batman tries to look menacing, but sans mouth it just looks alien.

But I really, really dig the beyond bat-symbol. I'm insanely happy that I finally found a black t-shirt that has nothing but that symbol on it... I've had several non-batfans come up to me and tell me it looked cool.

[optimal321]

Yeah, i love the new batsuit too. My only problem is w/ the wings. How sometimes they connect to his arms and sometimes they just are on his back. I know they just make the wings stick to his back when he has to save falling people, but i kinda like it better like that. Just like on the cover of the BB soundtrack.

And as for the cape, the suit works w/o it.

[Periphery]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
About the mouth... have you seen Lost Soul, where the Batsuit gets possessed? There, the guy controlling it (sorry, forgot his name) doesn't show a mouth, and it looks really inhuman. I know Batman tries to look menacing, but sans mouth it just looks alien.]

In the original design, they had it without the mouth, and in Lost Souls, it looked really cool and very dark. Since Terry dosn't have the cape to play around with to make him look more menacing, they could've played with that a lot more. Though it has been said before that you couldn't get as much expression with the lower part of the face covered, you do have the eyes to play around with.


But I really, really dig the beyond bat-symbol. I'm insanely happy that I finally found a black t-shirt that has nothing but that symbol on it... I've had several non-batfans come up to me and tell me it looked cool.

Man, I know what you mean. I got a black baseball cap with just the Red Bat emblem in the center off of Ebay a few weeks ago. I wear it every chance I can get.

Bliss

Alon

[Nightwing]

I've been looking for a nice small all back BB shirt with only the red emblem on the chest. Not a hat though. I look dumb in hats. :p

I really love the BB symbol too. I even made my own custom ROTJ logo inspired by it. Haven't colored it yet though. Ya know, the BB symbol looks a lot like the Superman symbol as far as the diamond shape. I noticed while drawing one of my pencil BB pics. And if you look at the shot of Terry in the background of the part of ROTJ where the Dee Dee sisters are hand springing toward him, it does look a tiny bit diamond shaped.

I also love all the aspects of Terry's suit. I wouldn't change a thing. I would have wanted to keep the teeth if I was told to make the decision because it reminds me of the strong menacing underbite jaw that Bruce has. I always loved that part of both bat suits.

Because of what is pretty much a custom made Bat suit for Terry (as far as longer ears and thinner build and all) I'd prefer it remain consistant for this new look to go with the new Batman. Meaning I wouldn't want a cape to go with it.

My only problem is to make sure you don't draw Terry to use the wings as a cape. They aren't a cape, they're wings. :) One time he did a Bruce-esque wing movement to act as a transition between scenes, and it looked a tad funky because they're so small. ;)

[Inque]

i think the new batsuit looks better. also it was cool when inque took the shape of the batsuit in disappearing inque

[The Mad Hatter]

Nightwing, I found my shirt at

www.anotheruniverse.com

I'm not sure if they still have it, but it's worth a look. Not to mention it's darn cool.

[Firefly]

Hey i'm new and I just wanted to say to Bird_Boy That There Was an all masked bat character Lock-up From Batman And Robin Cartoon:)

[Rahziel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by optimal321
[B]Yeah, i love the new batsuit too. My only problem is w/ the wings. How sometimes they connect to his arms and sometimes they just are on his back. I know they just make the wings stick to his back when he has to save falling people, but i kinda like it better like that. Just like on the cover of the BB soundtrack.

And as for the cape, the suit works w/o it.



the way they are displayed varies with his actions. is Batman has to carry a person or use his arms to throw a batarang or fly like superman; the wings come from his back like a on GARGOYLES. When he's doing alot of maneuvering, the wings extract from his sides so he can control them better. That works well for his gliding. Look carefull at the BB eps to spot the differences.

[Calhoun07]

I think the new Batman Beyond suit works just fine, and looks great. I know it isn't traditional, but I believe that's the whole point. I love the design of it. It would actually be nice to see Batman in the "real universe" make this suit and use it, even if in a future issue of the series, or even for a limited time.

[Rahziel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by calhoun07
I think the new Batman Beyond suit works just fine, and looks great. I know it isn't traditional, but I believe that's the whole point. I love the design of it. It would actually be nice to see Batman in the "real universe" make this suit and use it, even if in a future issue of the series, or even for a limited time.


I wonder how the live action suit is gonna look for the BB movie. Like rubber armor? Padded body segments? (Guyver live action) Or will it look like the armor suits in the Power rangers' movie? I wonder.....

[Inque]

I think the new suit looks cooler.

Hmm..... i'm not sure about the life action movie.......some things just look better animated.

[Huntress]

A CGI Inque would be awesome though!

[James]

I like the suit.

Initially I was a little concerned about it's technologicaly powers and their affect on the symbol (should Batman fly? A bat? flying ridiculous!), however, I've gone with the times and embraced the suit.

Yeah, the mouth was the hardest thing for me to get used to. It was so unreal - not like Bruce's square chin of course - that looked really normal....

It's just his mouth and chin.. jutt out... really weird.

As for the teeth - they have to be some sort of mouth guard (but not the tongue as seen in 'Eggbaby'...) :))

[Sable Phoenix]

I'll answer your survey straight up, Periphery; I absolutely loved the new Batsuit when I started watching Batman Beyond, but oddly, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with it over time.

Okay, maybe that wasn't so straight up. Let me explain. Bruce in the original Batsuit was intimidating. He radiated darkness and menace, and this was largely due, I'm convinced, to the suit, especially the cape. It's a principle that's well established in nature; if you scare away a predator or rival, make yourself look bigger (think of cats or birds puffing their fur and feathers out). Besides the fact that he's bigger than the average man, Bruce's cape amplified the effect and made him look HUGE. It obscured the shape of his body, making him into a walking black shadow. He knew how to use it for effect, too; when he hunched his shoulders a bit to glare down at some thug and the cape draped down to his feet and tapered out on the ground, well, menacing isn't even the word.

Another thing, which might seem like a small detail except that it's not, is that the cowl tapered out to join the shoulders of the cape. This made Bruce's neck look much bigger than it was. The whole effect was to make him appear large at the bottom than at the top, and amplify the illusion that you were looking up at this huge formless shadow.

So you have the original Batsuit, which made its wearer look something like this:

A

Now compare that with this:

V

Even here, with nothing but letters, you can see the difference.

Terry lacks the intimidating presence Bruce had, and I'm certain that it's in a large part due to his suit. The suit is skin tight; it slims him down and makes him look top-heavy. The neck of the suit doesn't flare out to join the shoulders (which would actually look really dumb with the rest of the suit like it is), which, when you take into account the huge ears, makes him look like his head's almost too big for his body. Add to that the fact that he's smaller than Bruce anyway, and all of the sudden you have a much less visually impressive Batman. Plus he lacks Bruce's manner and presence. "Menacing" is not the word you think of when you see Terry in the Batsuit. This is exhibited in his opponents' behavior--bad guys saw Bruce and ran; they see Terry and they jump him.

There are a couple ways they could have fixed this that I've thought of, and obviously other people have thought of them too, since they're mentioned here. Number one, make the suit mouthless. I know it goes against Batman tradition, but it would have looked SO much darker and even, as Mad Hatter mentioned, alien, that it would have added greatly to his menace. Then, make the neck of the suit flare out into the shoulders. And finally, have the wings be bigger and have them fold over his shoulders instead of rolling up and disappearing against his arms. To anyone who's seen Gargoyles, I'm thinking that they could be something like the gargoyles do with their wings in that show, when they're standing and they make "capes" with them.

Of course, logistically there could be problems with the cape-wings; what is he going to do with them when he's fighting (and let's face it, Terry gets thrown around an awful lot more than Bruce did)? It could be kinda cool to have these big old wings coming off your shoulders, and using the them to blind your opponents or knock them off balance, but they're probably a little fragile for that kind of thing (of course, you could always put razors in the edges, but that's a little to harsh to be Batman's style).

Regardless, with a little more work, the designers could've come up with something that was almost as dark and intimidating as the original Batsuit. As much as I like the Beyond Batsuit, it is still a bit disappointing that they didn't.

[James]

Originally posted by Sable Pheonix
Terry lacks the intimidating presence Bruce had, and I'm certain that it's in a large part due to his suit. The suit is skin tight; it slims him down and makes him look top-heavy. The neck of the suit doesn't flare out to join the shoulders

I agree sir.

Terry suit suits his style (ahem). The suit works less on a psychological ground as Bruce's, but then Terry does go in for that approach to crime fighting. Bruce intimidated, Terry gets stuck in (and then frequently bashed to a pulp! :) )

I'm glad they didn't give him a cape as it helps separate to very different Batman with very different approaches. You should only have a cape if you are clear on how to use it and it applies to your style.

It reminds of that piece in Alan Moores 'The Watchman' where he describes the corporate superhero who worked for a banking firm. He had a large cape.
During one battle with some crooks his cape got caught in the bank's revolving doors pinning him down. He was shot. Apparently the bank thought twice about designing a coporate superhero with a cape.

Capes can be excellent for masking form and intimidation, but if that ain't you - dump it!

Arguably, Terry seems to take more after Spiderman than the Bat when it comes to tactics (who too, unless you refer to the recent dreadful cartoon, is also cloakless)

[Periphery]

Originally posted by Sable Phoenix
I'll answer your survey straight up, Periphery; I absolutely loved the new Batsuit when I started watching Batman Beyond, but oddly, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with it over time.

Okay, maybe that wasn't so straight up. Let me explain. Bruce in the original Batsuit was intimidating. He radiated darkness and menace, and this was largely due, I'm convinced, to the suit, especially the cape. It's a principle that's well established in nature; if you scare away a predator or rival, make yourself look bigger (think of cats or birds puffing their fur and feathers out). Besides the fact that he's bigger than the average man, Bruce's cape amplified the effect and made him look HUGE. It obscured the shape of his body, making him into a walking black shadow. He knew how to use it for effect, too; when he hunched his shoulders a bit to glare down at some thug and the cape draped down to his feet and tapered out on the ground, well, menacing isn't even the word.

Another thing, which might seem like a small detail except that it's not, is that the cowl tapered out to join the shoulders of the cape. This made Bruce's neck look much bigger than it was. The whole effect was to make him appear large at the bottom than at the top, and amplify the illusion that you were looking up at this huge formless shadow.

So you have the original Batsuit, which made its wearer look something like this:

A

Now compare that with this:

V

Even here, with nothing but letters, you can see the difference.

Terry lacks the intimidating presence Bruce had, and I'm certain that it's in a large part due to his suit. The suit is skin tight; it slims him down and makes him look top-heavy. The neck of the suit doesn't flare out to join the shoulders (which would actually look really dumb with the rest of the suit like it is), which, when you take into account the huge ears, makes him look like his head's almost too big for his body. Add to that the fact that he's smaller than Bruce anyway, and all of the sudden you have a much less visually impressive Batman. Plus he lacks Bruce's manner and presence. "Menacing" is not the word you think of when you see Terry in the Batsuit. This is exhibited in his opponents' behavior--bad guys saw Bruce and ran; they see Terry and they jump him.

There are a couple ways they could have fixed this that I've thought of, and obviously other people have thought of them too, since they're mentioned here. Number one, make the suit mouthless. I know it goes against Batman tradition, but it would have looked SO much darker and even, as Mad Hatter mentioned, alien, that it would have added greatly to his menace. Then, make the neck of the suit flare out into the shoulders. And finally, have the wings be bigger and have them fold over his shoulders instead of rolling up and disappearing against his arms. To anyone who's seen Gargoyles, I'm thinking that they could be something like the gargoyles do with their wings in that show, when they're standing and they make "capes" with them.

Of course, logistically there could be problems with the cape-wings; what is he going to do with them when he's fighting (and let's face it, Terry gets thrown around an awful lot more than Bruce did)? It could be kinda cool to have these big old wings coming off your shoulders, and using the them to blind your opponents or knock them off balance, but they're probably a little fragile for that kind of thing (of course, you could always put razors in the edges, but that's a little to harsh to be Batman's style).

Regardless, with a little more work, the designers could've come up with something that was almost as dark and intimidating as the original Batsuit. As much as I like the Beyond Batsuit, it is still a bit disappointing that they didn't.


I think I found my new best friend . . . .

Bliss

[Rahziel]

You know what's interesting? Terry' much smaller frame. why? because it has plenty to do with why the batsuit looks the way it does, less intimidating. Took a look back at REBIRTH and look at Bruce in the suit, he had the exact same build as he did in the original; minus the cape. Plain and simple, Terry hasn't grown to "fit" the suit yet. Bruce was about 210-220 lbs. back then compared to a 170 lb. McGinnis. Bruce's head is larger than Terry's as well, which made the ears look smaller. Than, give the height minus 3' inch height. i totally understand the differences in appearance and it doesn't bother me much cause it is a new Batman in a new age of crime. The main reason the suit looks less frightening is the lack of cape, but like SJJ said, they do get in the way, For a novice like Terry, would you want another distraction tripping him up?

[Sable Phoenix]

You know what's interesting? Terry' much smaller frame. why? because it has plenty to
do with why the batsuit looks the way it does, less intimidating. Took a look back at
REBIRTH and look at Bruce in the suit, he had the exact same build as he did in the
original; minus the cape.

Your point? The new suit in the beginning of Rebirth was nowhere near as intimidating as the old one, even when it was Bruce wearing it. Which only reinforces my point. It really has very little to do with the size and bulkiness of the wearer.

Bruce's head didn't just make the ears of the old Batsuit look smaller; the ears actually WERE smaller. Which made the rest of his head look bigger and enhanced the triangular "looming shadow" look.

You seem to be disagreeing with me, but I really can't see how you've said anything that contradicts my points. It may be a new Batman in a new age of crime, but Batman is still supposed to be intimidating, and the new Batsuit is not intimidating, plain and simple. It really doesn't matter who's wearing it.

[Rahziel]

You seem to be disagreeing with me, but I really can't see how you've said anything that contradicts my points. It may be a new Batman in a new age of crime, but Batman is still supposed to be intimidating, and the new Batsuit is not intimidating, plain and simple. It really doesn't matter who's wearing it.[/COLOR]






I know terry isn't as menacing as Bruce was in the suit. I'm just stating the reasons why it don't really bother me; the same ones I posted above. About the ears: how can they be different? It's the same exact suit that Bruce wore in the beginning of the series, no doubt about it. Isn't weird that the ears look totally bigger on Terry? I see the artist went for elements of the retro batman, if you remember many years ago, the original Batman ears were incredibly long. Terry kinda reminds me of that old look. So all I'm getting at in this post is that "I" accept the suit for what it is, but still i understand where you're coming from. Can a brother post a comment without starting war? LOL LOL

[Sable Phoenix]

A brother can most certainly post a comment without starting a war. I simply didn't understand what you were trying to say. You second post cleared it up and I totally see where you're coming from, even though we're still trying to make totally different points I think.

Oddly, I never liked the comic Batman with the really long ears, but Terry's bat-ears never bothered me. They obviously bothered the Joker, though. Heh.

Actually, the Joker really nailed on of the main problems with the new Batsuit, in my mind, with his "The ears are too long and I miss the cape" line. The cape is an integral part of Batman; it really detracts from Terry's Batmanishness (how's THAT for coining terms?) that he doesn't have one.

I don't remember what my point was...

[Rahziel]

The cape is defintely the deciding difference for the look. But, i don't think the suit would have the appeal it does, if it had the cape. Mainly i say this because of the color of the suit; all black. In animation, the cape may render terry's look wierd. The colors of the original suit were complimented by the cape and wouldn't look the same with one, Terry's situation is the opposite. Even though i would like to see a cape, i have a feeeling it just wouldn't look right on him. With the way Terry brawls, it would probably last a minute before getting ripped off or caught on fire!!! Heh heh....

[DR. BELCH]

--you're all saying what I've said before: the suit has a slimming effect on Terry, while Bruce's old duds enhanced his musculature and let the villains know who was boss. Terry just doesn't seem to have the former Batman's psychological edge, and some might say he's less cerebral as well.
As for the cape, I agree that it lends something. As a comic book writer, I've used a Batman-inspired effect with the cape for my hero; he also wears glasses, which catch what little light there is available and lends a shimmering cat's-eye effect. It's a yellow cape, BTW, but still, in dim light I'd think it'd do its job well--pure scare factor. But for Terry a cape would be a bit much; he's doing fine with the retractable wings. I'd have added more padding to the calves and biceps to lend an illusion of bulk, but that's just me....

[Nightwing]

I don't expect Batman Beyond/Terry to be bulky really. To me that's belittling the character (but in a small sense only, of course) for the reason that 17 year old Terry doesn't have the same look as 30 something year old Bruce. I agree though about liking Bruce's look better, I just don't hold it against Terry's character any, because I think the slender agile clawed look is at least somewhat menacing.

[Rahziel]

I guess I am saying the same thing. It's funny that I just couldn't get to that point, maybe because we agree on something but in a different way. Look at it like his, terry hasn't earned the cape yet, after years as a seasoned batman, he will totally earn his stripes....
"that ain't coming out of my allowance!"

[Sable Phoenix]

http://www.ifrance.com/batmanbeyond/btpics/earlybatman.jpg

Isn't that nifty? Too bad they didn't go with that design.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by Sable Phoenix
Isn't that nifty? Too bad they didn't go with that design.

Ye Gods! That's pretty cool, although like Bruce's Batman, I like seeing his mouth and chin (and don't forget the underbite! :)) better. That's a great pic, but I think the mask looking like that adds to the overall slender non-bulky physic and presentation that we already get with Terry's look, so it's unnecessary, IMHO.

I'd go with that as maybe an extention or attachment of Terry's existing suit though. Ya know, like when a bar of things spread across his teeth to give him oxygen while underwater, or when he has a cool attachment for a gas mask.

[Rahziel]

the current BATGIRL has a mouthless suit. I forgot her name, but she is mute, so I guess she would benefit from it. that look makes her look more like a ninja than menacing, but it's mad cool looking, nonetheless