JLU's musical direction

[DLM]

Ok, this is my first attempt at actually starting a thread on this board, and I wouldn't have done that unless I saw something I thought really needed to be said, and here it is: I LOVE the new JLU music. The electric guitar in the intro, the more energetic style throughout the episodes Ive seen so far in the series.... Im loving it. I see alot of people complaining about the intro music on the talkback threads and in deference to mass opinion I held my tounge thinking I must be the insane one but after 3 episodes now I can firmly say NO.. you are all wrong! :)
IMO the new opening theme does just what it should do, add a sense of revitalization and new energy to the show. The theme is FUN and if I get any feeling from the JLU format so far its that the show is about having fun with the DC universe. I think alot of people are too quick to judge, too ready to subscribe to the idea that if what we're hearing isn't a full orchestral tour de force it isn't worthy. I think there are some who hear the electric guitar and "shut their ears" so to speak
I just watched my tape of FTMWHE again. The part that stood out the most this time was when Superman broke free of the Black Mercy and began his cathartic beatdown of Mongul. The transition from the more traditional musical score to the more urgent strains of the guitar riff was ABSOLUTELY perfect, even sublime.
So, now with 3 episodes behind us I ask you all to voice your opinion. What do you think of the musical direction of JLU? Does it fit the mood of the show? Is the opening theme an atrocity or an expression of the fun, energy and excitement that JLU is obviously trying to capture? Am I the only one who loves the music in this season?

[b.t.]

i dunno, i kinda like the new musical direction....

[Shadow]

It's grown on me. It's become way less, er, intrusive, I guess, than in Initiation, and I didn't really mind it as much there, either. I think it worked well in FTMWHE and Kid Stuff, too. And I like the new theme, too, though I liked the old one better.

But to be perfectly honest, I'd trade in the CGI and the guitar riffs for Shirley Walker in a heartbeat.

[GL2k2]

I think in "Initation" it bothered me simply because I noticed it and that probably should not happen, unless it's good. Lately, it's taken a back seat, but I am aware that it's still not very complementary to the series. I almost think it's the same music as SWAT Kats which I have on VCD. Something not right about that. It works for SWAT Kats, but JLU is a different animal entirely. Ha ha ha, animal, I kill me.:p

[Doomsday]

I like it. Its different. Much better than JL. I really liked the music in Kids Stuff, it really setted the joyful mood. So yeah, I'm for it.

[GL2k2]

I'm not so sure what to think, because I never really liked the original JL's music, but then again, I'm not too keen on all these guitars in JLU. I loved the "FTMWHE" score, but "Initiation" wasn't very good at all and "Kid Stuff" was just servicable and occasionally fun.

I don't think that JL/JLU's music is horrible, because I've heard so much crap (and I'm not just talking about pop music) in my short life that I can tolerate just about anything, but I still think that it's music is lacking.

I always wanted to score an episode of JL, just to see if it's harder than it looks, because I'm not a film/tv composer; I write for the concert hall only. Maybe I've been too harsh on them? Hopefully one day I'll be able to do the music for a movie or a television series, because it pays much better than the almost non-existant royalties most composers get from their performances and CDs.
Well, GMahler, you seem to know music or sound don't you? Would you say that the music for "Intiation" could serve as a "threshold of pain"?;)

[Sue]

The new score makes me want to break out my air guitar and bang my head ;) Seriously, I don't have a problem with it. I think the reason some others do is because it's different from what we're used to. Didn't Batman Beyond have some guitar riffs here and there? If so, I don't understand why JL's new music is such a big deal.

[Terminatah]

It's just the most bizarre departure for the Timm & Co. DCAU. Ever since BTAS, the music has been on an appropriately grand scale. Even Batman Beyond's music, in terms of tone, fit exceptionally well within the show. But this new electric guitar direction seems so light and irrelevant. It feels like it belongs on another show. I don't know how my opinion will change as the show continues, but I do know that I loved the old theme, so I wonder what was behind the creators' decision to revamp.

-Terminatah

[Marvel_Knight]

Much like everybody else, I didn't really like the theme at first but I started liking it more. In the actual show, I agree with wiseman GMahler's first two paragraphs in his second most recent post. JLU is almost a different show. JLU is in many ways a different kind of show, I guess the score is like that. Like X-Men and X2.

[Obsidian Age]

Don't like the new music. Can't they go back to the old stuff? Not the fast pace guitar stuff.

[Yarharhar]

I think like new voice actors getting used to their part, the new music took a few episodes to get comfortable with the show. In Initiation, it definately was a bit off. The most notable scenes for me were when green arrow would do something heroic(like stop a truck with a rope arrow), and suddenly these guitars would come blaring out of nowhere and jumble things up. However, by the second episode, the music, especially the guitars seems to have found it's groove. Which is being the instrument that comes in when booty really needs to be kicked.(like superman going nuts on someone)

[Bic]

Well I went with a thumbs down, guess I better explain why. :D

One of my first experiences with movie music was a little known movie that I saw back in '77 called 'Star Wars'. That blew me away, than came Superman, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Raiders of the Lost Ark to name a few, which re-inforced in my the idea that these large epic style should be done with an orchestra. To me Justice League, as well as B:TAS and S:TAS, fit the 'epic' mold as well. Now, I understand the finacal reasons for JL and JLU lack of an orchestral arrangement and why they went with keyboards and electric guitars, but in doing so it loses that feel of grander, sorta like eating a steak with no seasoning on it. Now for shows like BB or Wonderful Days which have that dark future/cyber-culture themes the keyboard and guitar are suited for that as that style has been established with Blade Runner for those type of stories.

It's funny, I had just got a hold of the Symphonic Suite for Gundam Seed preformed by the London Symphony Orchestra and I wished that was used for that show instead. Which really hightlighted the difference in styles of music between even B:TAS and JL/JLU. The music in Starcrossed, for example, made me give that episode a 4.5 instead of a 5.

Maybe I'm too picky (or biased since 90% of my music is all soundtracks - the scores), but I've always held the belief that music in a show or movie should be an intregal part of the process. It's there to help set mood, or tension, etc. (and even in worse case senarios give the audience an emotion that the actors fail to convey*), and sadly I don't feel that with most of the music for JL/JLU.

Sorry, that was longer than I intended. :(

* - Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, when Anikan's mother dies, we're supposed to feel his anger build up. If you turn off the audio and watch the actor's preformance, you'll see that he fails to convice us of his hatred. The music has become our cue as to what emotion is supposed to be in this scene.

[Revelator]

The problem is that the guitar playing in JLU is way too academic and staid. And blaring hair-band ripoffs clash with all those images of grandiose superheroes, who deserve Wagnerian/Phil Spector sound walls.

Since JLU can't afford orchestras, I suggest they at least hire a good rhythm section and try other styles of guitar that sound a little nastier. As I said in another thread, the blues guitar in a Howlin' Wolf record like "Wang Dang Doodle" sounds far more menacing and epic than the blah ax-abuse that weekly assaults our ears. BTAS, STAS and TNBA both had eloquent, fitting music, but JL sounded tinny and tacky, and JLU is growing evidence of a tin ear.

[Killtacular]

Since the original Justice League had the worst music of all time, front to back, page to page, episode after episode, horrible, ear-melting, Yamaha keyboard...


JLU is better. Because it at least has one real instrument. For once. An instrument with actual dynamics and feel. And the music in JL scores more appropriately to the action, also returning to JLU theme cues which is something that all DCAU shows did EXCEPT for JL.

I still don't see why you can't afford an orchestra though. Your budget on the show is insane.

[Duke Psychology]

they must have blown most of the budget on the AMAZING animation.:D

and i like the new music.

[Treadwell]

Lose the QUEEN guitar riff; orchestral all the way, baby! (Not synthesized, either!)

[maxnugget]

Count me in the list of "thumb-uppers"...

First, as I've said earlier, I actually REALLY like that whole Captain Atom death scene score in "Initiation"...I think I like it equally and oppositely as much as GMahler seems to hate it. :)

The music in "Kids Stuff"...wasn't paying too much attention to it, but I did like the little "King theme" that they played when Mordred first marches all the little kids "to his throne"...I think there was a reprise of that theme later that was cool too.

I'm still don't really like the opening theme music...at least not the portion that comes after the "Justice League Unlimited" title graphic...although I will confess I find myself humming it semi-frequently/

As for everything else, I very much agree with what Matt Wilson said. JL season 1 had consistently some of the worst scores of the DCAU...the synth orchestra sounded pretty bad. Just listen to the end of "Paradise Lost" :) JL season 2 was noticeably better, with both better-written scores and better-executed synth renditions of them. Still, even season 2 suffered from the lack of a real orchestra.

JLU so far, has been much, much better in the score department, I think for three reasons:

1) The guitar elements really do help out more than they've gotten credit for. So far they've been used effectively in FTMWHE, "Kids Stuff," and (depending on who you talk to) "Initiation."

2) I think the scores in JLU, in general, have just been BETTER than JL seasons 1 and 2. They seem better written, with a better handle on boosting what's happening on screen. They seem to use rhythm beats better and more frequently, especially for raising tension in action scenes (noticeable in all of FTMWHE and the final act of "Initiation"). They seem a bit better-executed, too, which I'd assume is because they've gained more experience with the synth orchestra stuff in two seasons of scoring JL.

3) They're finally re-embracing the character themes that worked so well for them in BTAS/TNBA/STAS/BB. Season 1 fought hard not to use them. Season 2 used them more regularly but still seemed averse to it. JLU has struck a better balance so far (though I could see them going overboard on character themes and making me and others regret saying that :))

[Fone Bone]

If JLU is TRULY trying to bridge the gap between Justice League and Batman Beyond, the combo score makes sense. I also got chills during Mongul's theme when he first appeared. Good stuff.

[Phantasm]

I'm kinda getting used to the opening sequence and the music also...but there are certain aspects of it that I tend to hate.

[HelloKittyKat]

The music is the only thing I flat-out hate about JLU so far. Please get rid of the chessy 80's guitar riffs.

[RAINMAN]

The music is not the only thing I don`t like about JLU.

[GL2k2]

The music is not the only thing I don`t like about JLU.
Same here, I don't care for the opening at all. I don't want to see promo clips of the show. I think that's just, ugghh. Would it have been bad if they showed clips of past shows kinda like The New Batman/Superman Adventures.

[DerekPowers]

I still don't see why you can't afford an orchestra though. Your budget on the show is insane.

can you talk alittle more about that matt? or maybe b. t. can chime in here. ive always wondered about this--the budget differences between the dcau shows on kids wb (and fox) and the ones on cn (jl/jlu). i always assumed the lower quality music was due to budget concerns, but...

anyway, i think that music is totally underrated a lot, in terms of making whats happening on screen more interesting. if you re-watch secret origins and the savage time, particularly secret origins, TONS of scenes are made out SO MUCH WORSE AND MORE BORING than they actually are simply because of the music. im serious, just watch the action scenes in that arc. and if you watch btas (the dvd set is the bomb!!!), you'll notice just how essential the score was, it totally set the stage, from the very opening, to the title cards, the music was just as important as everything else. it made the show WAY more cinesthetic than JL or JLU. but im sure the lack of an orchestra must be for budget reasons...

anyway, having said that, i hated the JLU intro and score in the first episode. hated it. mainly, its because it took me by surprise, i actually couldnt believe they were serious. but, after 3 eps, im willing to admit, its not the worse thing in the world, and im atleast glad that theres consistancy to the music. in JL, it seemed like each ep had a different team writing the score. sometimes they emulated a live orchestra rather well, other times they didnt even try and it sounded like a cheap 80s cartoon. so im glad theres some effort. and i even found myself humming the theme song on my way hope from work, believe it or not. im not saying i like it, but lets just say i dont despise it.

AND another reason im letting up on the music is, that after 3 episodes, something dawned on me that didnt after the first episode, and that is that the score and theme song are the least of this show's problems. again, im not trying to be harsh, but i gotta call em as i see em. the overly simplified, cut and dry, in and out format really is what is making me disapointed in this show. ah well, peace.