Something I thought of when watching ROTJ!

[Man of Steel]

Hey:

When I was watching Return of the Joker last night, I thought of something when Barbra metioned that Tim Drake had couple of kids. Now if you think about it the Joker had his DNA on Tim Drake when they had the kids, I think that the kids would have some similarties of the Joker, even though we didn't see any of his kids. I just thought this was interesting, post what you think!

[Bird Boy]

The Jokers DNA was on a microchip...I'm sure it didn't affect Tim's..uhh.. ya know..that "Special" fluid...So I doubt that there is any Joker in his kids.

-BB

[Calhoun07]

Anybody who's been reading the Did Batman Kill thread and my thread about when I watched ROTJ will know that this has been quite a controversy.

It has been postulated that the chip only affected Tim's BRAIN. Well, if that's the case, Tim became something like a schitzophrenic and when Batman destroyed the chip, Batman destroyed only a piece of programming, which would really be no different than destroying a computer or even an android.

However, I have asserted that the chip's DNA was transforming Tim into a cloned version of the Joker. While that would affect his mind, it went MUCH further than that. Tim not only took on the appearance of the Joker, but he also had an EXACT VOICE MATCH! Voice identification is a unique as our finger prints. How could that be unless that was an exactly duplicated clone of the Joker.

Even then, that didn't make much sense in either explanation how there could be an exact voice match. If Tim was transformed in to Joker's clone, that clone would be the genetic eqivalent to Joker's twin brother, and as far as I know, even twins don't have exact voice matches.

Who ever knew that this cartoon movie could produce so much discussion!

[optimal321]

Interesting point, calhoun. In light of that, i think i'll just say that unless Tim was in Joker mode when he consumated his children (oh, and that was such a big opportunity to use a dirty joke. Ah well, i'll get it next time:)), then they probably werent affected.

[DR. BELCH]

...as a former psychology major, I do know that multiple personality disorder suffers lierally have right hands that don't know what the left hand does. Their alter-egos may be left-handed while the host is right-handed, be a different age or sex, have a different voice or accent (though can they fool a vocal analysis machine like The Ventriloquist did, is my query), and can be as different from the host personality-wise as salt and sugar. Some have even been known to be homicidal.
MPD, a disassociative disorder generally associated with abuse/trauma, is in the same group as fugue (i.e. a person forgets himself and may go from a respectable businessman in New York to waking up naked in the New Mexico desert three days later with no memory of what elapsed between).
Incidentally, MPD is not the same thing as schizophrenia; many laymen make that error. MPD is a neurosis; schizophrenia is a psychosis.
As to whether any Joker juice got into Tim Drake's reproductive organs...there are just some things I don't want to ponder.http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/other/pukeface.gif
The query is, if Harley has grandchildren, presumably she married/had kids at some point. Was Mr. J the daddy? http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/other/Full.gif

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by optimal321
Interesting point, calhoun. In light of that, i think i'll just say that unless Tim was in Joker mode when he consumated his children (oh, and that was such a big opportunity to use a dirty joke. Ah well, i'll get it next time:)), then they probably werent affected.

OOHHHH, tell me! You can always send the joke to me in a PM! I won't tell!

[Calhoun07]

[i]The query is, if Harley has grandchildren, presumably she married/had kids at some point. Was Mr. J the daddy? http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/other/Full.gif [/B]

I was wondering if Bruce Wayne was the daddy? Harley alwasy had a thing for him, and after she was found alive...who knows? One thing lead to another? After all, he has her costume in his Batcave...he got it off her some how!

[Nightwing]

I agree that there really isn't any question that Joker's DNA was scientifically implanted, not naturally, so only Tim is in his kids.

And in a lot of MPD cases, you can find certain differences that are so bizzare you'd never be able to imagine them. That plus a little hint of Joker not knowing what he was doing to Tim (he did of course, but I'd say only 97% or so, and the rest was just, "wait, should this be....oh the heck with it!") justifies The Joker's full persona apearing in Tim, in my eyes.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by calhoun07

It has been postulated that the chip only affected Tim's BRAIN. Well, if that's the case, Tim became something like a schitzophrenic and when Batman destroyed the chip, Batman destroyed only a piece of programming, which would really be no different than destroying a computer or even an android.

However, I have asserted that the chip's DNA was transforming Tim into a cloned version of the Joker.


Actually, I think you've misunderstood what we've been saying in that thread, because we've been saying exactly what you've just said. There are two aspects - the DNA which gives the physical characteristic, and the brain "overlay" (for lack of a better term) that gives him the personality. See the other thread for more about the exact voice match.

[Huntress]

Originally posted by calhoun07


I was wondering if Bruce Wayne was the daddy? Harley alwasy had a thing for him, and after she was found alive...who knows? One thing lead to another? After all, he has her costume in his Batcave...he got it off her some how!


Dude, Bruce and Harley?? Well ... what a clash!! Talk about chalk and cheese ... or maybe just what Bruce needs - something a bit fun and lively .... with all that energy she'd be a challenge for him .... and this would certainly explain the heart attack hehehe:p

[Huntress]

Poor Tim. Not only was there all the trauma around his kidnap and 'transformation' (while still a child no less) but now this.

If you consider the length of time that the chip has been there then it surely has done some pretty major damage to Tim:

"Everything that was me has been a-sleepin' all comfy and cosy inside Tim Drake's subconscious ... At first I had to limit the time I spent in Drake's body. He's not aware of what I do, chalking up any lingering memories to bad dreams."

It's tough to find where to draw the line between what is Tim and what was Joker. Had Joker planned the laser thing years ago and therefore influenced where Tim worked/the direction his life took? Or was it happy coincidence? If he's been popping up at other times than what else has he done that we don't know about? If he's been in semi-control of Tim for so long then is there anything of Tim left? Has Tim made any of his own decisions? I mean, if Tim's body has just been a vessel for Joker to exist in and Joker has begun to use him more and more then has Tim's psyche been pushed too far to the back? Imagine the mess this poor guy would be in! He thought he'd recovered from his experiences and found some sort of sanity/life but now it seems that none of it was totally his. (And back to the Man of Steel's original thought; which one of them chose his wife?!!! Dude, that could lead to all sorts of nasty thoughts .....)

In a way its comparable to Two-Face ... Harvey Dent's personality was gradually being overcome by the Two-Face personality until the latter eventually took over. Sure, Harvey is in there somewhere but Two-Face is too overpowering. So all the time he was Harvey he was being influenced by Two-Face - albeit unaware of the fact - and so Harvey was never totally in control.

Maybe the link between Tim and Joker is so tight that he'll not be able to cope as Tim. The Tim of the future might only have been able to cope/exist because of the strength of the Joker personality within him. Without the Joker within him ... who is he now?

Here I have to stop and go lie down before my head explodes.

Who started this anyhow!!!!:p

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Huntress



Dude, Bruce and Harley?? Well ... what a clash!! Talk about chalk and cheese ... or maybe just what Bruce needs - something a bit fun and lively .... with all that energy she'd be a challenge for him .... and this would certainly explain the heart attack hehehe:p

Who can say what happens behind closed doors on Batman? And we sure know that opposites attract!