Best DCAU Pilot Ep? [Archive]

kid_flash

08-02-2004, 11:38 PM

It's The Last Son of Krypton. I think sometimes people forget just how good that three-part episode really is, how powerful it really was, and how much it delivered all you could ever need from a Superman cartoon. If they only did that one thing, I would still be in love with their interpretation of Superman.

First, they made me care about Krypton. Never seen it done before, and it's never been done since. But in LSOK, Jor-El made this gigantic sacrfice, and it just oozed out of every frame, from the set-up to the rocket launch. In twenty-two minutes, they managed to make Jor-El an effective character who you actually cared about, which is so integral to the Superman story but so often disregarded.

Second, it just set up the whole story the series would proceed to tell. It was loads different than BTAS, and it was okay with that. The series never screamed that it was by the same people who did BTAS. You knew it was, but it wasn't from its style or even the storytelling. LSOK gave us a complete introduction to Kal-El, Clark Kent, AND Superman (comic book writers have failed to look at all three aspects over years of storytelling), not to mention Lois Lane and Lex Luthor, the two most important supporting characters of the Superman mythology. And from frame one, LSOK nailed these characters and gave them such a defined personality that didn't change all the way through Legacy, and in some ways carried right into Justice League.

Lastly, it's just a damn fine episode. Saturday morning TV was lucky to have something that good and that daring (like Batman49 said, an entire episode devoted to Krypton was unbelievable).

TimTwoFace

08-03-2004, 01:04 AM

Just so you know a pilot and a first episode are two different things, like On Leather Wings wasn't the pilot episode to Batman:TAS.

If you're talking about first episodes, I'll say "Rebirth". I appreciate and like all the other first episodes, but that Friday night was a really cool experience. I can't forget it.
Yeah, well...it was the first episode they produced and received from their overseas studios, but the first episode to air was actually THE CAT AND THE CLAW (Pt. 1), obviously as a way to cash in on the popularity of BATMAN RETURNS that summer.

Honestly, of all the pilots I've seen, none have been truly impressive. They're all good, don't get me wrong, but not a one of the ones mentioned has been AWESOME.

-Tim

Eddie G.

08-03-2004, 01:20 AM

Yeah, well...it was the first episode they produced and received from their overseas studios, but the first episode to air was actually THE CAT AND THE CLAW (Pt. 1), obviously as a way to cash in on the popularity of BATMAN RETURNS that summer.True but On Leather Wings acted as a first episode. Although it did not give a direct starting point like the first episode to S:TAS or BB, it had a secondary intent of showing what this show was going to be like and what this show is going to be about. So I believe it is rightfully considered the first episode.

Batman49

08-03-2004, 01:21 AM

For those interested, the first episode of The Zeta Project is "The Accomplice" and the first episode of Static Shock is "Shock to the System." Any mod can feel free to delete this post and edit the poll.

Nick K.

08-03-2004, 01:21 AM

I'd say Secret Origins is the best.

SirLemming

08-03-2004, 01:35 AM

I can't really vote on this since I don't remember the first episode of BTAS, and I imagine that's a serious candidate for my vote. But the best one I remember is the Batman Beyond one. I wasn't too crazy about the first episode of Justice League or JLU, although I'd say JLU's was a little better.

Paul_Cousins

08-03-2004, 01:58 AM

Since the real Batman:TAS Pilot "The Cat and the Claw, Part 1" was not listed, I went with my second choose, Batman Beyond: Rebirth. :D

Nin-Nin69

08-03-2004, 03:30 AM

The Last Son of Krypton

ArtificialIdiot

08-03-2004, 03:35 AM

I watched "Rebirth" just yesterday, and I have to say... it's flawless!

Much as I like "On leather wings", Rebirth just takes it for me. In all aspects, it's perfect. It was nice to see Bruce back in action twice... and the final scene of the intro (the only with Bruce in the bat suit) made me shiver. No wonder the poor guy hung up his batsuit :(

Daredevil_2003

08-03-2004, 03:46 AM

My vote goes to LSOK. If the new Superman movie is as good as that, I'm gonna be a happy camper come summer, 2006. :cool:

PeterFries

08-03-2004, 03:52 AM

First, they made me care about Krypton. Never seen it done before, and it's never been done since. But in LSOK, Jor-El made this gigantic sacrfice, and it just oozed out of every frame, from the set-up to the rocket launch. In twenty-two minutes, they managed to make Jor-El an effective character who you actually cared about, which is so integral to the Superman story but so often disregarded.
Um, the Superman radio show did it on February 12, 1940 -- the entire first episode took place on Krypton. The classic radio series (whose narrator just died last week) introduced a lot of canon Super-stuff, like Kryptonite...

And my vote went to "Rebirth".

ryeck

08-03-2004, 06:15 AM

I'm gonna say the Teen Titans episode "Final Exam". I remember all the criticism on these boards about the look of the show and what-not, and how horrible it was supposed to be (actually, some things never change:rolleyes:, TT is still not well liked here). I just thought that TT was so different, and that different was good. I liked everything about that episode, and it has become one of my favorite shows around. Very few TT episodes have disappointed me.

Stu

08-03-2004, 08:04 AM

Superman: The Last Son Of Krypton.

Quite easily the best Superman origin ever shown. Everything from Kyrpton, to Smallville, to him saving Lois and showing that classic Flechier pose, this story was perfect. Beautiful animation throughout, and a brilliant set up for the rest of the series. In all honesty, this could be the best Superman story ever. Now if only my DVD player would actually play the damn thing >__<

The rest are mostly good, the better one's being Batman and Batman Beyond. The pilot episode was Static Shock was awful, as was it's following episode. It was just boring... and showed Static as an annoying character who tried too hard to be cool, and looked like a foo' because of it.

Zeta was a dull pointless series to begin with.

I liked Secret Origins. A difficult task to produce, but they did a fine job. It was easily topped by later episodes, however.

Teen Titans pilot is Divide and Conquer. Doesn't really matter, as Teen Titans didn't get great until 1/2 through season one.

So yeah, Superman. If the rest of the series kept the quality of these episodes, I think it would've been the greatest cartoon ever.

Fone Bone

08-03-2004, 08:17 AM

Since the real Batman:TAS Pilot "The Cat and the Claw, Part 1" was not listed, I went with my second choose, Batman Beyond: Rebirth. :DActually it WASN'T the pilot, just the first episode aired. A pilot is a show that is shopped around to the networks before they decide to pick it up or in the case of a show they had already committed to airing, the first episode produced. The Man Trap was the first episode of Star Trek to air but The Cage was the first pilot and Where No Man Has Gone Before was the second. The original Batman pilot was two minutes long and the first episode was On Leather Wings. And as long as we're talking pilots, Divide and Conquer was Teen Titans pilot, but Final Exam was the first episode aired.

I've gotta give it up for On Leather Wings as the best pilot. Last Son of Krypton and Rebirth were both great but On Leather Wings was stunning and showed that this wasn't your parent's Batman. No premeire episode in the DCAU has topped it although there were DEFINATELY better episodes in Batman's, Superman's, Batman Beyond's and Justice League's run.

I also wanna give a jeer to Teen Titans' pilot Divide and Conquer. Aside from being a lackluster episode Slade had the ultra cool line that "The Titans will pay!" implying that the Titans had done something to him in the past even if they never realized it. But that threat was dropped in later episodes and Slade was written as a creepy pedophile, diminishing the promise of a personal conflict the pilot promised. As far as I know I'm the first person to bring that up on these boards as Divide and Conquer was rightly bashed for other reasons.

ArtificialIdiot

08-03-2004, 09:07 AM

I also wanna give a jeer to Teen Titans' pilot Divide and Conquer. Aside from being a lackluster episode Slade had the ultra cool line that "The Titans will pay!" implying that the Titans had done something to him in the past even if they never realized it. But that threat was dropped in later episodes and Slade was written as a creepy pedophile, diminishing the promise of a personal conflict the pilot promised. As far as I know I'm the first person to bring that up on these boards as Divide and Conquer was rightly bashed for other reasons.

I also miss Slade's butler. My only complaint about Slade is that they took him in completely the wrong direction. He should have leaned more towards the classic "Know's all, see's all, but never actually gets involved in the dirty work" kind of villain. And I think the Butler hanging around in the background would have been a great way of adding to this experiance.
But nope. For me, Season 2 ruined Slade. Giving him the same kind of plotline (and may I say, with such a weak character as Terra), just makes him look like this obcessive loon in a mask. In fact, he just threw his image out of the window with Season two. He wasn't cold or calculating anymore. He didn't seem to have everymove planned ten steps in advance of the Titans. And he definatly wasn't the kind of guy you'd see as having a Butler. He was brutal, more an animal then anything. He was disturbing for all the wrong reasons.
I'd have loved it if Slade had something personal against all the titans. In fact, Divide and Conquer just seemed so insanely detached from the rest of the series it was crazy.

Anyway, that's rather off topic. I will say that the Titan's piloet comes nowhere near to being the best. And if the Static piolet was "Shock to your system", then that's pretty low down for me too.

Mister Intensity

08-03-2004, 09:36 AM

I picked Rebirth because Rebirth is the only one of those pilots in my opinion that really stands out as one of the finest episodes of the series it represents instead of being merely functional as a pilot. Not to say that pilot episodes can't be entertaining but most of them really doesn't real stand up as anything more than a primer on the series that follows.

If you think about it, "Last Son..." was a too long retelling of Superman's origin that really dragged at points (episode three was essentially a typical S:TAS episode); "On Leather Wings" was a good intro but only provides a glimpse of what follows; "Secret Origins" wasn't really well thought out; "Holiday Nights" was too atypical; "Final Exam"/"Divide and Conquer" it sets the stage for the show but don't really stand up individual as an episode, particularly "Divide and Conquer" (probably the weakest TT episode to date); "Shock to the System"/"The Accomplice," IMHO, both Static Shock and The Zeta Project didn't come into their own until their second seasons; and "Initiation" good intro but I'm sure things will get better.

However, "Rebirth" really is one of the best Batman Beyond episodes. It serves as more than just a pilot, it serves more of a function than introducing the premise of a show. "Rebirth" simply stands on its own. Yes it is the beginning of Terry McGunniess' adventures, but it also serves as the end of Bruce Wayne's adventures. It tells its own story and leaves you not only pumped for the next episode but leaves you satisfied. It is its own movie in many ways. You come saying, "this is good," not, "it's okay but they have to fix this, this, and that before it becomes good." That's the highest compliment a pilot could get.

Mister Intensity

Paul_Cousins

08-03-2004, 01:45 PM

Actually it WASN'T the pilot, just the first episode aired. A pilot is a show that is shopped around to the networks before they decide to pick it up or in the case of a show they had already committed to airing, the first episode produced. The Man Trap was the first episode of Star Trek to air but The Cage was the first pilot and Where No Man Has Gone Before was the second. The original Batman pilot was two minutes long and the first episode was On Leather Wings. And as long as we're talking pilots, Divide and Conquer was Teen Titans pilot, but Final Exam was the first episode aired.
I am not going to get into a Star Trek arguement with you, but the 2 Part "The Cat and The Claw" was a much better intro to Batman:TAS than "On Leather Wings", which if I saw first, I might not have continued watching the series.

Frank White

08-03-2004, 04:53 PM

Divide and Conquer, Final Exam; On Leather Wings,The Cat and the Claw; Tomato Tomatoe.:shrug: :rolleyes:

Anyway I must say I'm surprised. I thought On Leather Wings would crush all competition but I guess theres more new heads here. Good insight on The Last Son of Krypton and Rebirth.:bosko:

Mynd Hed

08-03-2004, 05:03 PM

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. I think "On Leather Wings" was the perfect introduction. The dialogue and animation are far superior. I mean some of the dialogue in "The Cat And The Claw" is pretty sub-par. And the animation in Part 2 is pretty bad.
I'm with you-- Red Claw was your stereotypical vaguely-Eastern-European terrorist such as you'd expect to see in something a little more 80's and kid-oriented like G.I. Joe, only sans any sort of motivation or interest as a character whatsoever and turned into a woman for an o-so-obvious parallel with Catwoman and cliche women's-lib subtext. (Only that particular text was not so sub-- in fact they kind of beat the audience over the head with it.) Catwoman was good in it, and it's definitely a nice departure in a superhero show when the bits in which the heroes are OUT of their costumes are more interesting than the bits where they're IN, but it was hardly a standout by B: TAS standards. And yeah, the fire effects in Part 2 were pretty cheap-looking and obviously looped, especially when compared to the far superior fire effects in, say, "Beware the Gray Ghost."

Anyway, I'm really surprised to see "Rebirth" at the top of the poll-- besides the relative lack of BB fans compared to B: TAS and S: TAS or even TT on this board, I personally didn't think it was that great. Thought it kind of fell prey to "crappy pilot" syndrome and got too mired in setting up the premise to tell that great a story. It was still pretty good, just not the best BB had to offer IMO.

Fone Bone

08-03-2004, 07:19 PM

I am not going to get into a Star Trek arguement with you, but the 2 Part "The Cat and The Claw" was a much better intro to Batman:TAS than "On Leather Wings", which if I saw first, I might not have continued watching the series.
WHAAAA? Seriously? Dude!:eek:

Considering how great you are with Gargoyles I'll forgive this, but I am truly floored. I liked The Cat and the Claw but On Leather Wings still makes my jaw drop. No comparison in my book.

Different Strokes.:)

Doomsday

08-03-2004, 11:43 PM

I also miss Slade's butler. My only complaint about Slade is that they took him in completely the wrong direction. He should have leaned more towards the classic "Know's all, see's all, but never actually gets involved in the dirty work" kind of villain. And I think the Butler hanging around in the background would have been a great way of adding to this experiance.
But nope. For me, Season 2 ruined Slade. Giving him the same kind of plotline (and may I say, with such a weak character as Terra), just makes him look like this obcessive loon in a mask. In fact, he just threw his image out of the window with Season two. He wasn't cold or calculating anymore. He didn't seem to have everymove planned ten steps in advance of the Titans. And he definatly wasn't the kind of guy you'd see as having a Butler. He was brutal, more an animal then anything. He was disturbing for all the wrong reasons.
I'd have loved it if Slade had something personal against all the titans. In fact, Divide and Conquer just seemed so insanely detached from the rest of the series it was crazy.

Anyway, that's rather off topic. I will say that the Titan's piloet comes nowhere near to being the best. And if the Static piolet was "Shock to your system", then that's pretty low down for me too. If you watch the second season finale then you will see that Slade is still 10 steps ahead of everyone else. I really like how they did Slade even though he wa bad most of the second season, from Betrayal then on he was very nicely done. I love him in the second past of the second finale, he seemed alittle weak but seems liked he was back to his old self from the Apprentice. As for what pilot I like most, right now I'm thinking LSOK or Rebirth. I haven't seen Rebirth in years so I'll go watch that sometime then choice.

The Detective

08-03-2004, 11:55 PM

Well.....as I don't consider "On Leather Wings" a pilot in the strictest sense of the term, I would have to say "The Last Son of Krypton." It is, I think the best telling of Superman's origin. It's not cheesy or confusing it just tells his story straight out. And that last image of Jor-El and Lara kissing as their world explodes around them is the closest I've come to crying during a Superman origin story.

Props must be giving to "On Leather Wings" which set the tone for BTAS, and subsequently everything that came after. I simply however, don't consider it to be a 'pilot' episdode.

maxnugget

08-04-2004, 12:31 AM

My vote goes to Batman Beyond's Rebirth.

Rather than being repetitive, I'll just say that I agree basically with everything Mister Intensity said. Rebirth stands as one of BB's finest episodes, as a wonderful introduction to the world of Batman Beyond.

I remember that Friday night when BB premiered. I remember seeing an aged Bruce punch his way onto the screen in that opening shot, his punch carrying the weight of 119 episodes of BTAS (:)). I believe the opening sequence of "Rebirth" (everything up until the title sequence) is one of the best scenes in the entire DCAU. It's just extremely well done, and accomplishes its goal so well. It immediately thrusts you into the uncomfortable and dark future world of BTAS, and does so with remarkable style.

"On Leather Wings" was a VERY close second, but, ultimately, "Rebirth" is my ideal pilot. LSoK...idunno, I like it, but, "eh"...

"Secret Origins" might have been a contender for my vote if they had chopped out the 2nd part. It's probably second only to "Rebirth" in terms of being an effective narrative introduction to thhe series' premise, but as an episode it's very weak, particularly by comparison to the rest of season 1 and season 2.

---

For those who are saying "Cat and the Claw" is the pilot and/or debating whether it's better than "On Leather Wings" as the pilot, this is one of those debates where I'm inclined to believe you don't really have much of a case:

1. "On Leather Wings" is clearly the intended introduction to the world of BTAS. It is highly evident within the episode. You can tell in the opening scene that they're showing you Gotham City for the first time, you can tell you're being introduced to Gordon, Bullock, Harvey Dent, Batman, Bruce Wayne, Alfred, the Batmobile (recall the extended batmobile sequence), etc. Listen to the commentary track on the DVD...this was the episode meant to be the introduction to the world of BTAS.
2. "Cat and the Claw" simply was not created to be the pilot or, I'm sure, even the first-aired episode. I don't know if the debut episode decision was Fox's or Timm's, but considering that the series debuted 2-3 years after those episodes (and the other 63) were created, the first-air episode is a moot point.
3. Nothing wrong with debating which episode would make a better pilot to the series, but that doesn't make Cat and the Claw a pilot. I mean, heck, "Heart of Ice" or "Over the Edge" might have made for great pilots, but that doesn't change anything: they're not the pilots, nor were they created to be.

kid_flash

08-04-2004, 02:18 AM

Um, the Superman radio show did it on February 12, 1940 -- the entire first episode took place on Krypton. The classic radio series (whose narrator just died last week) introduced a lot of canon Super-stuff, like Kryptonite...

SO glad I put "Never SEEN it done before" (and no, I'm not gonna pull that listen vs. seen crap), by which I meant I'd never personally experienced it that way, as I have never heard the Superman radio show. I hear good things, though, and big props to them for inventing Kryptonite.

DarkLantern

08-04-2004, 07:48 PM

The only beneficial property of Kryptonite -- to allow a voice actor to take a two-week vacation.

DL

ArtificialIdiot

08-04-2004, 08:00 PM

If you watch the second season finale then you will see that Slade is still 10 steps ahead of everyone else. I really like how they did Slade even though he wa bad most of the second season, from Betrayal then on he was very nicely done. I love him in the second past of the second finale, he seemed alittle weak but seems liked he was back to his old self from the Apprentice.

Not sure if there are any spoilers here, but those who haven't seen Aftershock may want to look away...

I dunno, it was Aftershock that really got me about him. He just seemed a lot less cunning and a lot more brutal. Honestly, I think he just got far too brutal in the end for me to actually take him serious. Yes, he's meant to be ruthless, but there is a line between ruthlessness and basically beating the living daylights out of somebody for running away.

Betrayal was good though. But I felt from there, it went downhill again.

The Penguin

08-04-2004, 08:16 PM

When I first saw the topic I was thinking I'd vote for "Rebirth" because I liked how it bridged the gap between BTAS/TNBA and the future series, but reading this thread I have to vote for The Last Son of Krypton. I don't like him as well as Batman, but I've always liked Superman too and this was a great introduction to his character and how he came to be, something I felt was missing from BTAS.

Jade_GL

08-04-2004, 08:25 PM

Have to agree with Last Son of Krypton.

It was a real starting point. On Leather Wings set up the tone for BTAS, but it really didn't introduce Batman. It came in with action and story right away, but it didn't really give us the whys and hows of Batman. Just that he is there and he is fighting crime. Very good and a great start to the series, but I think I appreciated that LSOK took the time to introduce the backstory, the important aspects of Superman and his origin, while still giving audiences a big dose of action and intrigue.

Also, the ending scene between Luthor and Superman had to be one of the best in the series, if not the DCAU as a whole. It really set a stage for things to come, and made you want more.

MeTaMoRpH0

08-05-2004, 02:01 AM

On leather wings by far

they showed batman bleeding and all that

Paul_Cousins

08-05-2004, 02:06 AM

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that. I think "On Leather Wings" was the perfect introduction. The dialogue and animation are far superior. I mean some of the dialogue in "The Cat And The Claw" is pretty sub-par. And the animation in Part 2 is pretty bad.
The dialogue and animation was okay, but the plot was great; It was ground-breaking to have a bio-terrorism plot in an animation, it predates Cowboy Bebop: The Movie by nearly a decade. :D

Squall

08-05-2004, 02:23 AM

I know it wasn't literally 'the first episode', but I've always viewed "Mask of The Phantasm" as the pilot of B:TAS in my eyes... After all, it shows Batman's origins, it introduces the Joker, etc. -- everything you'd want in a pilot! If that had been on the poll, I would have voted for that. ;)

Paul_Cousins

08-05-2004, 02:28 AM

Squall

08-05-2004, 06:59 AM

Good point. Though it was not the pilot, it was one of the major origin stories for Batman:TAS.:cool:
Yeah, so to me, "Mask of The Phantasm" could be split into three single episodes, or Episodes #1-3, making "On Leather Wings" Episode #4, hehe...

Darkseid

08-05-2004, 10:47 AM

The Last Son of Krypton remains the most definitive Superman story ever told in my eyes. It's gotta be that one.

Most of the others didn't grab me the way that it did, except... I did dig on Secret Origins.

Now, I certainly know what my weakest vote would be...

johnnybvo

08-05-2004, 11:03 AM

Mos def the Last Son of Krypton for me. That was just an excellent introduction of a classic character. One of my favorite STAS eps following only World's Finest. I like the character of Batman better, and most likely if he had a similar introduction that would probably be my fav ep, but since he didne it's Last Son for me. Not that the original BTAS eps were lacking in animation but it seemed like the animators stepped their game up for the the STAS eps. The show was soooooooooooooo pretty.