What makes a character sell

[Who?]

I was talking to a friend of mine and he told me the reason he didn´t like Superman was because he couldn´t relate to the character. As I see it, that´s why many people only read Marvel comics, they are easier to relate to.

I say this is a stupid reason, it not a false one, to not buy a comic book. For one, I find Superman more familiar then, lets see, Wolverine. Logan is nothing, he has no filling, he´s just a shell of a character. He has no memories, he is the bad boy, kill 'em all type of hero, so their is no real way you can get close to say: "You know, Logan reminds me of myself", that just wont happend. The same gos to Punisher, Electra and all the anti heroes back in the Marvel universe.

Then we take Kyle Rayner, a cool new yorker/artist, he cool have being your brother, the guy is real. But people prefer good old dull Hal Jordan, even if Kyle is a better character, and a better choice for a green lantern.

As I see it, you don´t really have to relate to a character to like him/her, it´s more like you have to feel moved by the story, and the actions performed by the lead person, and not if the hero could actually exist. Hal nor Logan could ever be a real person. And yet, they sell.

[king_k4life]

Cool & Uncule it's simple

Superman is the guy that put you in detention for snitching

Wolverine is the person that hooked you up with some You know what


Thats why people relate All the Lanterns suck exept John Stewart.

[TimTwoFace]

I still think it's all about relatability, or, if not that, how much you can suspend your belief of a character and believe that it's "real".

On top of that, it's all about interesting supporting characters, real emotions, real relationships, and just quality writing and artwork that doesn't get repetitive.

-Tim

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Well, back in the 80's, I liked Wolverine a lot, but not because he was a psycho killer. The fact that it was a struggle for him to get to the side of the angels, and that it was still a continuing struggle for him to stay there was what appealed to me. As a gawky, nerdy, outcast teenage kid, he appealed to me because he meant that life WAS often a struggle, and that it was going to be tough and on-going, but that it was still worth it in the end. His continuing status as the loner and the outsider, even when he was with the X-Men, was a model for rugged individualism, and learning to be comfortable in your own skin despite your flaws and your shortcomings.

Plus, he was a ninja and this WAS the 80's. Ninjas got super bonus cool points automatically because they were, like, totally sweet (http://www.realultimatepower.net/). He's boring and overexposed now, but he really was cool once upon a time.

I agree that there doesn't need to be DIRECT identification with a character, but I don't think there needs to be. Lots of heroes are orphans (Superman, Batman, Harry Potter, Spidey, Cinderella), but that's not something most of us experience and that's not really why they have appeal. I'm pretty sure no Spider-Man fans can climb walls or make superglues out of high-school chemistry sets, but they can identify with being blamed for things that aren't their fault, for being grossly misunderstood even by people near and dear, and for having genuinely good intentions and watching the whole thing turn to crap anyway.

There's also the basic wish-fulfillment thing, which is where it all started and is (IMO) really the root of Superman's and Hal Jordan's appeal (and I'd add Iron Man to that list, too). Yeah, they're boring "white bread" Boy Scout characters, but that very plainness is what allows a reader to project himself (or herself, I suppose) onto the story in question. GL and Iron Man fit that bill even better than Superman, since you could ALWAYS envision yourself with a power ring or in the armor.

None of this explains Liefeld's X-Force, of course, but maybe some things are best left unexplored.

-- Ed/Ace

[kid_flash]

"As I see it, you don´t really have to relate to a character to like him/her, it´s more like you have to feel moved by the story, and the actions performed by the lead person, and not if the hero could actually exist."

Exactly.

See...here's my thing about Hal Jordan. And Kurt Busiek totally explained it...couldn't put my finger on it for the longest time, but I was reading this interview and it was like "damn...that's it!" What Busiek said was that Hal Jordan is cool because he's the kind of guy who, even without the GL ring, would jump off a cliff because he knows he'll figure out some way to survive on the way down. Now, I can't relate to that. I'd never do it. But it's freaking COOL, man. That's a character I want to read in a comic, because it's NOT me. I know what my life is like, spandex doesn't change it enough for me.

BATMAN...perfect example here. Everyone always talks about how easy he is to relate to because, unlike so many others, he has no powers, and he was kinda the original powerless superhero (bearing in mind he first appeared a year after Superman, the first superhero). But, he's also a millionaire. And an orphan. And a little bit paranoid, and (as has been suggested more than once) suffering from multiple-personality disorder to some extent. Now I love Batman, but it has nothing to do with me relating to him. He's just a damn cool character.

Now, don't get me wrong...I picked up Spider-Man in the first place (Ultimate Spidey was actually my first) because I went through the exact same things as that guy. But I don't pick all of my comics that way...I wouldn't buy anything other than USM.

As for Superman...I love Superman. Always will. Love him more than Hal or Batman or Peter. Much of it has to do with writers, over time, fleshing out Clark Kent so well. The other is much of the reason people dislike him: His ideals. That guy stands for all that is good and right, and makes it his MISSION to see that that is done. That kind of self-sacrifice is inspiring, even if it is only in fiction. Read SUPERMAN: PEACE ON EARTH and SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS and you'll get it. Now, I could never be as upstanding as Clark is. Not in a million years, and superpowers wouldn't solve that either. But as I said, I read SUPERMAN because it's a really, truly inspiring story.

So what makes a character sell? I don't know the answer to that question. For me, it's everything I talked about up there. Those characters represent the basics of the reasons for almost every title I buy. Storytelling doesn't hurt, either. But what makes a character sell to a mass audience changes so much from year to year. Usually dark and gritty sells, but SUPERMAN/BATMAN is a top seller month in and month out, and that's for its flat-out solid storytelling.

[Brainatra]

What the others said...

Personally, I don't think there's any superhero character I feel I "relate" to... maybe one or two of their problems (like Peter Parker's need to pay bills), but not as people---they're all pretty outlandish to me, much as I like them (sole survivor of an exploded planet whose radioactive fragments are deadly to said survivor, fighting bad guys using gadgets that start with "bat" while wearing an oversized bat-costume, a mutant with a Ginsu knife set for fingernails, etc.)...

>>
Then we take Kyle Rayner, a cool new yorker/artist, he cool have being your brother, the guy is real. But people prefer good old dull Hal Jordan, even if Kyle is a better character, and a better choice for a green lantern.
<<

If *he* were my brother, I'd consider disowning my family. ;-p

-B.
Prefers good ol' Hal Jordan (who *wasn't* dull IMO)...

[randomguy]

For me, it's all about the talent. I buy into a character if the guy writing him/her/it is somebody whose work I enjoy reading. Good writers can make nearly any character interesting. I mean... look at Swamp Thing.

[ZorBrak]

Personally, I like to read about characters I can relate to. Those who seem more realistic or convincing. Someone with flaws and human characteristics.

[Clayface]

For me, being able to relate to a character definitely plays a significant role in whether or not I enjoy reading about the charcter, and that obviously plays a role in whether or not I buy the book. So, yes, in way, you can say that a character that I can relate to helps sell the book.

Does a character have to be someone I can relate to for me to buy the book? No. Like randomguy, if there's an incredible talent on the book, I may purchase it strictly for the writing or art. Example: I can't really relate to the Superman character. I generally don't purchase the Superman titles because there's not a lot about the character or his powers that appeal to me. But I'm picking up and loving Azzarello's run on the book right now, because of his approach to story telling and the way he write dialogue. The fact that Jim Lee is drawing it helps immensely as well.

Its definitely a large numberof factors that come into play: how well you realte to the character, the talent on board, and even more subtle aspects (as kid_flash poinetd out) like how inspiring a story is to you as an individual.

[snakez3]

As someone fairly new to comic books (six months or so) and read mainly marvel books, I would say that there are many different factors as far as weather or not I will like a character or that character's book. The first comic I read was ultimate spidey, (bought all the TPBs and have all the issues since i got all the tpbs) I'd say the reason I picked this comic was mainly because I like spider-man, and this seemed like a perfect place to start with the whole "ultimates line" being made in part for people like me at that point to find an easy way to get into comics. Now I read alot of mainstream marvel u comics as well as ultimates stuff, and the reason that ultimate spidey is still my favorite issue is that not only is it interesting and excellently written, but I can certainly relate to the character in some ways, with his constant state of loss, taking the blame for everything, etc. That said, I'd say that there are several different types of super heroes that people like for various reasons.

The obvious one that comes to my head is spider-man, and most people like him because of the fact that people can relate to him. Most superheroes have atleast some qualities that readers can relate to, and this goes a long way for selling that character's book in my opinion.

The second type of character that people like is the super badass one. Venom comes to mind. He's really not that interesting of a character, but people (including me) love him regardless. I'd say that the Punisher and Wolverine fall into this category as well (in the badass sense, not in the uninteresting sense). Anti hero is another way to describe what I'm saying here.

Then there's the character that's not easily relateable, and isnt an anti hero, but conveys such a sense of heroicness and also coolness in a way in that untouchable way. Captian America seems this way to me. And although i've never read his comics I'd say this would describe superman too.

There would be Tons of other ways to classify super heroes, so these are just three that I thought of that seemed to describe some of the heroes people like.

So in conclusion, I'd say your friend has every right to not like Superman because he doesnt relate to him. Just because you can relate to him or you dont need to relate to him, doesnt mean that your friend will or should like him too just because you think his reason for not liking him is bogus.

[sKorpia]

Funny about that Marvel/DC thing. I'm actually more prone to picking up a DC title than a Marvel title and a Vertigo, independent, or manga one more than the mainstream DC ones.

I tend to look for good story-telling as opposed to books that sell based on a character (probably why I'm knee-deep in Fables and Y but I'll only pick up Batman in trades if I've heard the arc is good). However, that is not the question at hand.

I think it's sympathetic, which is the word that's been described already. I naturally won't be able to strictly relate to a lot of these characters. 1) They're mostly male. 2) They may not even be human. However, in either an abstract or an intuitive way, I can identify with their feelings and sometimes even with their general situations. I have to be touched on that level in order to stay interested.

Then there's also the (fan)girl in me who likes some of these male characters just because they're . . . I'm not sure yet whether I've defined it for myself even. Batman, Wolverine, and Bigby (I've only read through Storybook Love so this may not apply to him later, or so Willingham has told me) seem to be loners and emotionally inaccessible so they have that aura of mystique around them. I guess it would be that bad-boy attraction working coupled with the belief that only extraordinary women would be able to understand men like that. Special knowledge or whatever. Which would explain why I can only see Batman with the likes of a Catwoman or a Talia, not a Summer Gleason. And, in the real world, they generally would be able to protect the people that they love. There's a logical gap there but I don't mind it since it's all fantasy anyway.

On Superman: Personally, I didn't feel I could even begin to relate to Superman until one simple observation was brought up one day. Superman's an alien, essentially an immigrant to America. I'm the kid of immigrants so at the very least, I have ties to and can understand the netherworld of "Where do I belong" that the Smallville show is exploring right now. It wasn't until that realization that Superman became remotely interesting in a personal way for me.

For some reason, I've yet to find a female character in the DCU with whom I feel I can really identify. The closest it's come has been Snow White in Fables.

[Who?]

Thanks for the responses to the question. I understand now why pople like Hal Jordan (sorry for the dull thing, but, as I have stated once, I am a child of post-Zero Hour continuity, so he is just a mass-murderer/Specter in my book).

As for Kyle Rayner: He was my first. The first comic book I ever read was about this guy, who didn´t understand the hero world, who was new to the whole thing, and I related to him. And as he grew up, so did I. That created a bond between me and the character, and now he is about to me killed, or maybe retired. :(