ToonHeads: The Early Works of Hanna & Barbera

[GAK]

Thanks guys!

Glad you like the new episode.

This coming Sunday night is another good one,
"The Early Works of Hanna & Barabera."
I won't tell you what cartoons are in the show, but don't miss the beginning.
There's a very cool cartoon and gaurantee most of you have not seen!

GAK

[Sogturtle]

Thanks Mr. GAK... Everyone will be watching!!!

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by GAK
Thanks guys!

Glad you like the new episode.

This coming Sunday night is another good one,
"The Early Works of Hanna & Barabera."
I won't tell you what cartoons are in the show, but don't miss the beginning.
There's a very cool cartoon and gaurantee most of you have not seen!

GAK

Hmmmm that would most likely be "Gallopin' Gals" orrrr "War Dogs"... Two of the cartoons H&B were urged to make instead of more Tom and Jerry toons. Quoting the incredibly near-sighted Fred Quimby, "putting all of our eggs in one basket"...

[chuckamuck43]

Mr. GAK - Can we expect a visit from OFFICER POOCH?

[DR. BELCH]

I rather hope not. That one's a wee bit overplayed. I'm sure Bill and Joe had more early stuff than that which doesn't get much air. I know Tom and Jerry probably won't appear here either, though it'd be nice to see some undubbed Mammy...maybe on the same night, squeezed in between Droopy and Barney Bear someplace...I can hope....:rolleyes:

[laugh4me]

Originally posted by Sogturtle


Hmmmm that would most likely be "Gallopin' Gals" orrrr "War Dogs"... Two of the cartoons H&B were urged to make instead of more Tom and Jerry toons. Quoting the incredibly near-sighted Fred Quimby, "putting all of our eggs in one basket"...

"Gallopin' Gals" has been on Acme Hour a few times. I thought "War Dogs" came after they were making T&J's but you usually know this stuff far better than I Tim. ;)

The other cartoons that I can think of on which they worked together between "Puss Gets the Boot" and the T&J's were "Officer Pooch", "The Goose Goes South" and "Swing Social".

Since "Officer Pooch" and "The Goose Goes South" have also been on the Acme Hour a few times, does that mean we can hope for "Swing Social"?

Then again, another way to look at it is that maybe they will show some early solo effort by one of these two directors. Since I think they have shown all Hanna's "Captain" shorts, could that mean "To Spring" a possibility?

Hmmm.... I'm looking forward to the rest of these new "Toonheads"!

[Pietro]

I really hope they show a few early T&Js with MAMMY! That'd be great!

-Pietro:D

[Joe Tully]

Yeah, I was very carefully examining the preview of the next ep. for any signs of Mammy. After the last ep., I think that the probability is likely! :D

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by laugh4me


"Gallopin' Gals" has been on Acme Hour a few times. I thought "War Dogs" came after they were making T&J's but you usually know this stuff far better than I Tim. ;)

The other cartoons that I can think of on which they worked together between "Puss Gets the Boot" and the T&J's were "Officer Pooch", "The Goose Goes South" and "Swing Social".

Since "Officer Pooch" and "The Goose Goes South" have also been on the Acme Hour a few times, does that mean we can hope for "Swing Social"?

Then again, another way to look at it is that maybe they will show some early solo effort by one of these two directors. Since I think they have shown all Hanna's "Captain" shorts, could that mean "To Spring" a possibility?

Hmmm.... I'm looking forward to the rest of these new "Toonheads"!

Yep you're right "War Dogs" did come later (1943 release), but it's one of the rarest of any H&B shown. Annnnnd it was their last non-Tom & Jerry for over a decade. "Gallopin' Gals" always gets a "WHAT was that???" reaction. The "Goose Goes South" used to be shown on the old TBS, tis another unusual little toon. Could be any of those or even "Swing Social" or a Mammy. We're all takin' pot-shots at what it might be... :cool: :cool:

[Matthew Hunter]

I just hope it's treated like this last episode, like people who know the difference between real and 1940's cartoon are watching, not supposedly "impressionable" little kids. It was great to be able to watch last night and not have them try to hide scenes from me because they might be "offensive". And I hope, whether redubbed or not, they show some or one of the Mammy cartoons, because that's what the best of the T&J shorts were about, cat chases mouse, cat wrecks house, maid punishes cat. Those were the funniest Tom and Jerry's, they have been on television and video for years. I'd actually try to watch the Tom and Jerry shows if those were on there, but I hardly pay attention now, because all they ever show are the cute animal cartoons and the non-HB stuff.
-Matthew

[chuckamuck43]

I'm assuming from your comments that CN does not show any of the "Mammy" shorts on their Tom & Jerry show (I don't get to see the T&J show very often).

Here in the Chicago area, WFLD used to run T&J back in the 70's and they were mostly uncut. Any objectionable toons were either not shown (His Mouse Friday), or a redrawn version aired(Saturday Evening Puss).

Do any of you know if CN's copy of "The Goose Goes South" is cut? (yeah, I know "Don't be so NAIVE, buster!") I haven't seen it in years.

Also, is it the cartoon that uses the "I never pick up hitchhikers" gag that (I think)
McKimson used in THUMB FUN?

- RJFW

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43
I'm assuming from your comments that CN does not show any of the "Mammy" shorts on their Tom & Jerry show (I don't get to see the T&J show very often).

Yeah, the Tom & Jerry cartoons with Mammy do not air in the regular T&J rotation on CN anymore. They sometimes air on rare occasions on the late night editions of T&J. When they do air, Mammy has a modern, redubbed voice (not June Foray's Irish accent, but a whole new voice).



Do any of you know if CN's copy of "The Goose Goes South" is cut? (yeah, I know "Don't be so NAIVE, buster!") I haven't seen it in years.

Also, is it the cartoon that uses the "I never pick up hitchhikers" gag that (I think)
McKimson used in THUMB FUN?


I can think of two gags not shown when CN shows "The Goose Goes South". There might be more... I haven't watched the uncut version in awhile. One had two black women in a cotton field. One tells the other that all her kids want to grow up to be like Rochester. We then see a bunch of black children saying stuff like "Hello, Mister Benny!". There is also a cut scene where a black baby crawls into the mouth of an alligator. I don't recall the punchline at the moment, though.

I guess the running gag in there could be called a variation of the "Thumb Fun" hitchhiker gag.


-Jon

[TeamFX]

Originally posted by Jon Cooke


Yeah, the Tom & Jerry cartoons with Mammy do not air in the regular T&J rotation on CN anymore. They sometimes air on rare occasions on the late night editions of T&J. When they do air, Mammy has a modern, redubbed voice (not June Foray's Irish accent, but a whole new voice).

-Jon

June Foray did that voice?! Wow, I didn't know that. It sure doesn't sound like her. I wonder how they dubbed the voice-over like that? They could've at least made it seem more... more... mono.
:p

P.S.: Hmmm... it looks like nobody has mentioned anything about the Hanna-Barbera TV era, how they broke the mold for limited animation and became one of the most popular studios in that media. There might be some more early screen tests and/or unsold pilots of various 1950s cartoons scattered around somewhere. That sounds like a great idea for another Toon Heads special, if it hasn't been mentioned before.

[Randy Watts]

<< I wonder how they dubbed the voice-over like that? >>

It was (and still is) common practice for studios to make what's called a music-and-effects track, which is just the soundtrack of the motion picture without the dialogue. In other words, it only has the film's music and sound effects on it. With a music-and-effects track, redubbing Mammy's voice in those Tom and Jerry cartoons would present no difficulty.

--Randy

[Ramso]

I don't think it's possible for the airing to have better timing (At least not with the focus placed on my situation...) as I have just started working on my final paper for my senior high school year with the topic of Hanna-Barbera.

*whew* My first post was one long run-on sentence. What a way to start off...

[DarthGonzo]

Ok, who else felt let down by this Toonheads episode?

Two T&J cartoons we've all seen before, one with a redubbed Mammy.

Officer Pooch...need I say more?

Galloping Girls and To Spring...eh...

I was expecting more, in all honesty.

[PorkyandDaffy]

I wasn't expecing much anyways.

[J Lee]

Well, the problem with "The Early Work of Hanna Barbera" from a `what-can-you-do-with-the-content?' angle is that, despite Quimby's delay, the duo were put to work so fast doing nothing but Tom and Jerrys a year after the original cartoon came out that there just aren't that many early works to deal with, so Cartoon Network was limted in what they could show.

On the other hand, there's much more material to work with for the one-hour special "The Early Works of Friz Freleng", given his three reported (but uncredited) directing assignments under Harman and Ising at Warners, the 1934-35 B&W Buddy and Merrie Melody cartoons that CN currently doesn't show, and his work on the Captain and the Kids series and under Harman again in 1938-39 at MGM -- they can even go all the way up to "You Ought To Be In Pictures" with Friz' return to the Schlesinger studio. A five-cartoon show could feature one regularly-seen short, say "I Haven't Got a Hat" since it was Porky's debut cartoon, and pair it with "Bosko In Dutch," Friz' first directorial assignment, "Buddy the Gob," his first director's credit after returning to Warners, a MGM cartoon like "Mama's New Hat" and the previously mentioned "Pictures" or one of the other cartoons he did on his second return to the Schlesinger studio.

With all of those rarely- or seldom-seen 1933-40 material avaliable, if that episode of Toonheads airs five cartoons of Freleng's that are shown on the Acme Hour or the Looney Tunes Show all the time, then I will be really disappointed.

[redhotrider]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TeamFX
[B]

June Foray did that voice?! Wow, I didn't know that. It sure doesn't sound like her. I wonder how they dubbed the voice-over like that?

From my limited experience with the redubbing of the tom-jerry's
June Foray did the voice when in the 60's they actually replaced all instances of mammy in a cartoon with a white woman. As many have mentioned-chuck jones's unit helped by actually drawing a whole new character and literally pasting her over the original drawings. CN recently showed one of these (I"m not good with names but it was the one where tom and jerry both cover themselves in white paint)

The modern mammy-(the real mammy) however returned to a more african/american sounding voice with much of the amos/andy dialect cleaned up. They basically eliminated much of the stupid sounding nature of her character(ex. changing o-w-t to o-u-t)

Personally I can't see why the redubbed mammy's aren't shown in regular rotation. Aside from her name "mammy-two-shoes" there's nothing offensive about her. She's just legs and sometimes hands after all

I honestly think replacing her with a white woman is far more offensive than redubbing her voice. That's like saying she's not good enough for modern audiences, and completely needs to be replaced with someone white?-yuk

[Jack]

Originally posted by redhotrider

From my limited experience with the redubbing of the tom-jerry's
June Foray did the voice when in the 60's they actually replaced all instances of mammy in a cartoon with a white woman. As many have mentioned-chuck jones's unit helped by actually drawing a whole new character and literally pasting her over the original drawings. CN recently showed one of these (I"m not good with names but it was the one where tom and jerry both cover themselves in white paint)

That cartoon was "Mouse for Sale"(1955). The thin white woman is original to the cartoon. When mammy was retired in 1952 or so, Hanna and Barbera replaced her with a suburban white couple. The redone mammy cartoons, from my understanding, actually feature refilmed sequences. Much like redrawns, it's just that Jones actually had real animators, and DeGuard could actually paint backgrounds that matched the originals. It's funny how they replaced a back woman with Irish woman.



Jack:D

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by Jack

That cartoon was "Mouse for Sale"(1955). The thin white woman is original to the cartoon. When mammy was retired in 1952 or so, Hanna and Barbera replaced her with a suburban white couple. The redone mammy cartoons, from my understanding, actually feature refilmed sequences. Much like redrawns, it's just that Jones actually had real animators, and DeGuard could actually paint backgrounds that matched the originals. It's funny how they replaced a back woman with Irish woman.



Jack:D

MOST jarring of all (in my recollections) was at least one or two Tom and Jerry's featuring Mammy Two Shoes BUT overdubbed with June Foray's thick Irish brogue...

[Sogturtle]

Although Hanna and Barbera saw fit to bury Ebonics-speaking Mammy Two Shoes (presumably with her shoes still on:) :)). The old Amos and Andy actors (Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll) would continue acting using their same dialect and famous voices . And it was none other than in an early SIXTIES cartoon series entitled "CALVIN AND THE COLONEL". The two actors are now portraying Ebonic-spewing animals (a wily fox and a dense bear). Peculiar to watch. Interesting to find that a LOT of former MGM (and some Warner) folks worked on it, amongst them Charles McKimson (director), Bob Bemiller (a supervising animator) etc. Is this cartoon racist?? Noooo, these are just silly animals, who happen to speak a form of Southern English...