Iron Man/Fantastic Four - Could they recover from season one?

[Stu]

Hey,

This is a topic which has been brought up before, but should make an interesting thread.

When The Marvel Action Hour entered it's second season, the quality of the show went up considerably, but with the first seasons being so poor, did they ever really have a chance to become as successful as say, X-Men, Spider-Man or Batman?

Any thoughts?

[STARTOUNZ]

Well, neither show got to a third season, so the answer is no. In addition, the MAH was aired in syndication, so it didn't get into as many markets as it did than if it were aired on Fox or one of the major networks.

[I.R Joey]

Well personally I think that Iron Man's second season was something truely incredible. Despite the utter stupidity of the first season, the second season is usually what I think of when I consider the show. If it had kept up the quality into other seasons I wouldn't of had any problem lumping it in with Batman TAS, X-men, and others.

As for The Fantastic Four's first season, it did have some moments where I laughed but it also had some utterly cheesy momments that actually made me cringe (Doom was the real saving grace of some eps.) Season two was better, but it still never grabbed me to the extent that other Marvel toons did.

[Wayman Tisdale]

Well personally I think that Iron Man's second season was something truely incredible. Despite the utter stupidity of the first season, the second season is usually what I think of when I consider the show. If it had kept up the quality into other seasons I wouldn't of had any problem lumping it in with Batman TAS, X-men, and others.

As for The Fantastic Four's first season, it did have some moments where I laughed but it also had some utterly cheesy momments that actually made me cringe (Doom was the real saving grace of some eps.) Season two was better, but it still never grabbed me to the extent that other Marvel toons did.TOTALLY agree, great post!
They're the only series that actually improved exponentially after correcting the abysmal first seasons to a miraculous degree. When I first viewed the second seasons of those two series I was blown away by the dramatic alterations in writing, voice-work, and animation.

My personal favorite episodes from Iron Man: "Hulk-buster", "Not Far From the Tree", "Armor Wars" Pts 1&2, and from the Fantastic Four: "A Blind Man Shall Lead Them", "Prey of the Black Panther" , "Doomsday" and "To Battle a Living Planet"! In a mere 13 episodes these two seasons collectively managed to cram in(I mean that in the MOST respectful manner) the following characters:

Fantastic Four:

Guest heroes:

The heroes: The Inhumans(Black Bolt, Medusa, Triton, Gorgon, Crystal,), Daredevil, Black Panther, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Thor(2x), Ghost Rider, Impossible-Man and more cameos(Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man) than you can shake a sketch pad at.

The villians: Dr. Doom(3x), Psycho-Man, Klaw, Maximus, Super Skrull(2x)and skrulls, Galactus(2x), Terrax, Hydro-Man, Wizard, Trapster, Sentry,

Iron-Man

Guest heroes: Hawkeye(5x), Century(3x), War Machine(whole season), Spider-Woman(whole season), Scarlet Witch, Nick Fury(3), Dum Dum Dugan(Shield), Hulk, Stingray,

The villians: The Mandarin, Modok, Blizzard, Dreadknight, Stilt-Man, Blacklash, Whirlwind, The Leader, The Controller, Hypnotia, Grey Gargoyle, The Hacker, Dark Aegis, Titanium-Man, Crimson Dynamo, Ultimo, Fin Fang Foom, Firebrand, Madam Masque, Justin Hammer, Beetle, and more.

If ANYONE is a big Marvel fan these second seasons are an absolute MUST. Both second seasons of these animated series would make for the perfect DVD release. It would be VERY funny if Marvel ended up just putting out seasons two on DVD and make pretend seasons one burned in a fire. I will go as far as putting them against ANY of the best thirteen episodes that BTAS or STAS has to offer as the superior product(ie. I'll take Iron-Man's Armor Wars ANYDAY over say the STAS slightly overrated Legacy). They also managed to straddle the line beautifully between contemporary comics and filling in fans on historical elements.



P.S. When Bruce Timm started the second season of JL he claimed "It's like a whole new show!" Well THAT improvement pales in comparison to what Iron-Man and FF to their second seasons just in terms of overall retooling iimprovement.

[thanos28542]

The 1st seasons of shellhead & FF were so AWEFUL that even the great improvements in season 2 were not enough to save the shows. Which is ashame cuz the stories,animation,voice acting & action were totally awesome! I really hope Disney releases seasons 2 of both FF & Ironman on DVD SOON!

[Kolbar]

I haven't seen enough of Iron Man to actually judge the series, but I thought that both the seasons were good.

Fantastic Four, which I have seen a lot of, I thought the first season was better than the second. Even though some of the stories were stupid and goofy, and most people hated the designs of the characters, I really enjoyed it. Well, I like almost everything that featured the Fantastic Four.

-Kolbar

[Wayman Tisdale]

I thought the first season was better than the second. Even though some of the stories were stupid and goofy, and most people hated the designs of the characters, I really enjoyed it. Well, I like almost everything that featured the Fantastic Four.

-KolbarUUUUFFF:eek: , I can't speak for everyone, but I can't imagine ANYONE remotely agreeing with you on that. I don't know if you're just trying to be eccentric for the hell of it or you're just playing Devil's Advocate but the only thing that dreadful season had going for it was it had a Sub-Mariner episode and the second season didn't.

I GOT IT, this "Kolbar" is actually Ron Friedman(producer of the first season) or Brian Austin Green(Human Torch season 1). Welcome aboard guys! Not too biased????

[Stu]

UUUUFFF:eek: , I can't speak for everyone, but I can't imagine ANYONE remotely agreeing with you on that. I don't know if you're just trying to be eccentric for the hell of it or you're just playing Devil's Advocate but the only thing that dreadful season had going for it was it had a Sub-Mariner episode and the second season didn't.

I GOT IT, this "Kolbar" is actually Ron Friedman(producer of the first season) or Brian Austin Green(Human Torch season 1). Welcome aboard guys! Not too biasedf????

There's no need for that, it's simply his opinion. Kolbar has stated that he likes this cartoon several times on his forum, there's nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps he cares more for the fun, adventurous types of cartoons.

[Jon T]

Could the FF and Iron Man have become as successful as other shows? Possibly...

I think that the improvements made to the 2nd seasons of both shows were so dramatic, that they could easily have been new shows altogether. Surprisingly, the (mostly new) makers of the 2nd seasons actually made an effort to display at least some respect to the 1st seasons, by actually referencing them within both FF and Iron Man's 2nd seasons, something which they could have quietly avoided.

First impressions do count however, and having the relatively simple type of storytelling in the 1st seasons as they originally had, and coming after the advent of a more mature style of super-hero storytelling in both Batman:TAS and the Fox X-Men series probably did put a few people off.

Marvel learned from their mistakes however, and radically overhauled everything from the character designs to the animation studios to the writing styles...and so on. And for the most part, it worked. Most people do generally prefer the 2nd seasons to the 1st seasons, and think that even without that comparison, the shows stand well on their own.

The one overriding factor against the Marvel Action Hour, was that it was a syndicated show. The original animation syndication market all but dried up towards the end of the 90s, so I imagine there was simply no profit to be made by continuing the show, which is a shame on so many levels.

[bigddan11]

Iron Man and Fantastic Four both would have probably gotten 3rd seasons if Marvel hadn't decided to try and make Spider-Man Unlimited and Silver Surfer. They also had a Captain America release planned that never came because those two shows bombed. As for the MAH, I fill it would have survivied had they not added Biker Mice From Mars onto the block. Frankly, Marvel could have easily created a weekday syndicated block if they had really wanted to with X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, and Captain America, but they wanted the national markets of Fox Kids and Kids WB! How long did it take them to get Evolution on the air after Unlimited and Silver Surfer bombed? I believe it was 2 years.

[bigddan11]

Actually, now that i think about it, it wasn't really because Silver Surfer and Spider-Man Unlimited that we din't get a third season. It was due to Haim Saban. At that time Marvel went to him as their studio, but he ended up selling all his stuff to Disney, and Disney didn't want to sponsor a rival of there's, hence the MAH was cancelled.

[OmegaPaladin]

I recently watched Iron Man's second season in its entirety. It's as good, if not better, than the X-men TAS second season. It really doesn't quite seem like a kid's cartoon. The show was good, and I'd like to see Iron Man in an Avengers series.

[RAINMAN]

If S1 started off like S2 there may have ben a 3rd one. Ironman had a good RV that he did not need to fight the mandrna in every ep`s. turing the FF intoa groofball team insted of the serious one from the comic was a dumb idea.

[Wayman Tisdale]

Ironman had a good RV that he did not need to fight the mandrna in every ep`s. Oh, no question, great point. Really in both seasons they got OCD with The Mandarin and Modok was almost as bad. In the first season Mandarin appeared in EVERY episode and even in season 2 he showed up in full 5 times and cameod in every other episode as the mini subplot. They were just out of control with The Mandarin, it got really tedious, with that hideous grinding organ music that went right to your forehead vein. I think that Ron Friedman must've secretly loved the character for some reason and crowbarred him in whenever he could?

The second season tried to steer away from him a little but the whole series could've easily just been called Iron-Man vs The Mandarin. In the first season it's almost as if it was a lame, cheap Marvel knockoff version of Challenge of the Superfriends(vs Legion of Doom). Anyone else get that sense?

[Spidey2099]

Marvel learned from their mistakes however, and radically overhauled everything from the character designs to the animation studios to the writing styles...and so on. And for the most part, it worked. Most people do generally prefer the 2nd seasons to the 1st seasons, and think that even without that comparison, the shows stand well on their own.Iron Man Season Two definately stood out on its own, well enough in fact that I would buy the whole season on DVD, and I'm not a big spender on those things. This has to be my favorite series.

[Hypestyle]

I'd buy dvd collections of the 2ND seasons of both shows.. they can keep the 1st seasons..

...VAN CLIBURN?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

....GWAR!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!???

[Wayman Tisdale]

...VAN CLIBURN?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

....GWAR!!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!???
HAHHAHHAHA that is a GREAT reference and just about sums up EVERYTHING that was hideous about Iron Man season 1 and it's tone!