PDA

View Full Version : Justice League Reviewed! (No Spoilers)



James Harvey
11-03-2001, 12:06 AM
Hey Gang!

I received my press kit today, and with that came a copy of the three episode series pilot, aka Secret Origins. Within five minutes of getting the press kit, I had the tape already playing in the VCR and myself snuggled on my favorite leather couch, ready to partake in being one of the first people to see the pilot before it hits the air on November 17th. This review will be spoiler free and will be a couple paragraphs of my thoughts. This will not be the review I will be putting online within the next two weeks.

Well....here are my thoughts...

The series opener for Justice League was an enjoyable three part epic series. The visuals were stunning and the designs were pretty good. The voice acting by Kevin Conroy and Micheal Rosenbaum were absolutely flawless. The animation on those characters, as well, was amazing. I love how the animation used a new technique, and even sounds, for Batman. His moviements are quickened a bit and his gadgets (and cape!) make a whole new sound (which'll sound awesome on 5.1 DVD Audio). The Flash was portrayed great. I found him to be my second favorite charcter on the series, behind Batman. Batman and Flash were two characters who almost seemed to be linchpins in the series. We still get Batman's anti-social behaviour yet they also make him a believable team player.

But for all the praises, I have some complaints. First of all - the animation on Superman was really lacking. It seemed during the whole pilot the animators just couldn't animated Superman. Whether it be his face or his sheild. There were scenes where Superman's faced looked awful, sometimes ridiculous. The animators seem to have a difficult time animating the lines on his face. And his "S" sheild was constantly chaging throughout the pilot. On S:TAS you could nitce tweaks and changes now and again on his sheild, but here it was close to distraction! As for the voice - there were times were it seemed like Daly was voicing it! The grunts sound exactly the same and there were scenes when Neubeurn sounded exactly like Daly. Then...there were the painfully obvious times where the new voice just didn't work. The voice will take some getting used to, and was very uneven in the pilot.

Also, the voices for Wonder Woman and Green Lantern also felt odd. Wonder Woman's voice was flat and sometimes devoid of emotions. Not only that, but she said "Hera" at least 4 or 5 times, which quickly grew annoying. There were scenes where Wonder Woman was performing great feets of strenght, yet the voice actress made it sound like she was just lifting a shopping bag. Her screens sometimes didn't work as well. She definatly needs some work. As for Green Lantern - his voice sounded so "Shaft" I was waiting for his "GL's a dirty -- SHUT YO' MOUTH!" theme to start playing behind him. All he was missing was the cliched dialogue. I will admit that there was some great dialogue written for GL, which the Flash played off perfectly.

It's hard to review Hawkgirl becuase she barely spoke. She maybe said twenty words. That's it. But I loved her ferocity. She was brutal and quick. She plowed through villians like nobody's business! I ma gonna definatly like this character. Martian Manhunter was also well done. The voice acting was mostly good, although he seemed to be stuck with some hokey dialogue.

And now the dialogue...well...it was good. I wasn't expecting this show to be the same level of B:TAS or even S:TAS - but the dialogue just seemed groan inducxing from time to time. I found myself actually groaning during random scenes. There's one scene where Batman says "That was close" so off character you'd think it was a different character. The story was good. The villian seemed to lack and real depth. I can't say anything else but you'll see when the pilot airs.

The animation was good, especially on Batman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern. Dong Yang (KOKO) seemd to really shine on those characters. They made Batman so smoothe and creepy. The way they animated the Flash was ingenious and provided some nice eye candy. Martian Mnahunter just looked awesome. No doubt about it. He just had that creepy sense around him. And GL looked cool as well. The backgrounds were odd from time to time. The computer colored series was overly bright at times, but not as bad as some of the early computer colored Batman Beyond episodes.

So overall I give the pilot a B. There's need for improvement, but the show is off to a great start. The three part opener is not as good as Superman's Last Son Of Krypton, but it is still a great ride. The last twenty minutes are intense!

So...I've rambled on longer than expected...

DerekPowers
11-03-2001, 02:01 AM
just a B? hmm, thats not reassuring. i mean, im sure its great, but i was expecting alteast an A-. man, that really sucks on superman's animation and wonder woman's voice. and i was really hoping GL didnt get a shaft type voice, i mean, they already have him as the token minority of the show, did they have to stereotype him as the militant black man as well?

i guess i was expecting the kind of reaction we all had when we first saw our bootleg copies of ROTJ. remember that? i think that was the most recent "event" that had this much hype in the bat comunity, and everyone was just completley floored by it. so seeing reactions less than that is alittle new, abit of a surprise. i supose it should be expected that the series will run into some bumps, and since its a series, it probably will improve on those bumps over the season, but still, i am not pleased with the reviews so far. its not that the reviews are bad, just not as good as i was expecting.

oh well, i still cant wait to see it. i know i'll love it regardless, i mean, its JL. peace.

CarterHall
11-03-2001, 08:48 AM
Thanks for the review.

I agree with everyone that this show just needs to "hit its mark" in getting everything just right. But, that's how the animators learn to please theie audience. I really love the Timm-style animations and from the commercial I've seen, it will really work with JL.

With voices, the actors need to be comfortable with their characters. Kevin Conroy is the veteran here, I fully expect his usual, excellent performance. The other actors just need a few episodes to "feel" their characters.

Well.....until they show HawkMAN on the show.............

Joker85
11-03-2001, 10:20 AM
Well, as long as they get Batman right, that's enough for me!:p :D

Tim Drake
11-03-2001, 10:58 AM
Hmm that's kinda depressing. Ah well. I will still watch it and I'm sure it will be good. But bothers me the most was the idea of bad dialouge. That scares me. Hopefully it will get better as it progresses. I guess we have very high expectations though. BTAS, STAS, and BB's pilots in my opinion were pretty much flawless and all deserved A's. If its not as good as Last Son of Krypton then that is discouraging because there was definitely enough room for improvement in that one. I remember Lois Lane eyes were messed up every other sequence. Anywho I will still watch the show religiously.

kid_flash
11-03-2001, 12:51 PM
Well I'm glad to hear my personal fave character, the Flash, was handled perfectly, and that the animation on all characters was mostly great. Who animated this, by the way? If there's room for improvement, I'd say bring on TMS (or whoever animated ROTJ).

But also, ya gotta remember that this is something completely different for Timm and Co. At the very most I can think of, they've done a show with four main good guys ("Over the Edge" with Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Nightwing). To do seven main good guys, four of which they've never worked with before, is gonna take some adjustment. Not to mention what sounds like a global alien threat, and not working with everyone they have in the past.

But room for improvement is expected and welcomed for me. I worked in tech theatre last summer, and the director said your goal should be to make each show better. Even if the first show is so god-awful people are walking out, that's okay. It just means you have something to work on. You don't WANT the first show to be perfect, or else your setting yourself up for a disappointment with the others.

Maxie Zeus
11-03-2001, 01:50 PM
The show is very focused on action, and the dialogue really does take a back seat to it. The big problem I had was that there was too much exposition-talk. There was one place where, returning from a commercial break, it actually starts in with Wonder Woman saying, "So J'onn J'onzz, you were telling you are from Mars."

But overall, I would give it that A- that DerekPowers was looking for.

kid_flash
11-03-2001, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by DerekPowers
and i was really hoping GL didnt get a shaft type voice, i mean, they already have him as the token minority of the show, did they have to stereotype him as the militant black man as well?



Well, in all my geekiness, I discovered that it we knew this beforehand. I went over to http://wba.toonzone.net/justice/greenlantern.html which has a very complete collection of all we know. Here's Timm's comments on who GL is:

"Another reason why we chose him, out of all the Green Lanterns we could have chosen, we all liked the John Stewart character from the comics, especially the Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams version. When they first introduced him, he was like the angry young black guy back in '69 or '70 with the Black Power movement. Even though that's not relevant today, we wanted to keep that kind of edged attitude with him. "So, in banging around ideas about what to do with him, we went back to the original idea of the Green Lantern Corps, where they are space cops or space marines. So we thought that he's a military guy. And somebody said, 'Louis Gossett Jr. in An Officer and a Gentleman.' And I said, 'Yeah, wait a minute, Samuel L. Jackson.' And everybody went, 'Yeah!' "So that's kind of who he is."

Maxie Zeus
11-03-2001, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by kid_flash
So we thought that he's a military guy. And somebody said, 'Louis Gossett Jr. in An Officer and a Gentleman.' And I said, 'Yeah, wait a minute, Samuel L. Jackson.' And everybody went, 'Yeah!' "So that's kind of who he is."

Yeah, that's the way he struck me in JL. I may be alone, but I didn't really pick up any "Shaft" vibes. He seemed more like a Marine Corps type.

The Mad Hatter
11-03-2001, 03:06 PM
I'll have to largely agree with DG... the pilot was darn good and completely satisfying, but not perfect. Then again, keep in mind that pilot episodes have to spend a lot of time setting up the characters, which is what this story arc did. And it did it well, considering that there were seven characters that had to be made enjoyable. I do see a HUGE amount of potential for the future, though... now that we have the character intros out of the way, I'm looking forward to them really cutting loose.

My review will be online Monday (first out of the gate, baby!), but I'd probably give it a B+.

Oh, and I think Koko did the darn good animation.

Joe Tully
11-03-2001, 03:44 PM
Yeah, while I haven't seen it of course, I'm not going to judge this first ep. too harshly because there is going to be some idiotic exposition because it is the first ep. Once they get all of the origin stuff explained, we'll hopefully see an improvement in the story and dialogue.

But I am still really psyched to see this one!

JusticeLeagueLegion
11-03-2001, 09:48 PM
I haven't seen it yet either, I'll have to wait until November 17th. I am so excited...this is probably going to be the best DC Comics show ever made...it's...well...it's Justice League...and it's done in a realistic way....not like Super Friends was...I can hardly wait for this new show!

James Harvey
11-03-2001, 10:27 PM
There are possible spoilers in this post so turn back now!



You still here? Possible spoilers....



K - You've been warned!


The animation was done by Dong Yang (KOKO) who have vastly improved their already great animation since Batman Beyond. They just do an amazing job on Batman, Flash and Martian Manhunter. During the sequence where the main aline sticks his tendrils inside Manhunter is just sweet. It's cool how they squrimed through his body. They do a good job handling Martian Manhunter becuase in a way this is his story. He is the main focus from the end of part one to the end of the part three. He has a very personnel stake in this.

After watching the pilot again (and liking it more this time around) I think in the scheme of thing, this will be billed more as MM's episode than the origin of the Justice League. The Justice League formation is something that grows out of this. Much like how we'll get a Green Lantern story, this is Martian Manhunter's tale. I just wish we got to see more of Wonder Woman before she shows up, literally out of the blue. We got only 40 seconds total of her before she appears in costume.

I also found the music to be a mixed bag. Carter had some excellent epic feeling music in the third part, but some of the other music felt...out of place. I expected full orchestra music like Superman or Batman, but instead got a mix of that and Batman Beyond. There are some heavy Batman Beyond influences when the aliens first emerge, I found.

This episode is a good set up for the series, though. And suprisingly, I didn't find the mandatory Superfriends mention that jarring. Why? Becuase the awesome Micheal Rosenbaum/Flash said it! I may actually bump the rating up to a B+, becuase the more I watch it, the more it grows on me. While Batman remains the best animated DC show ever (I doubt anything will ever knock it down) this show has plenty of potential to be the second best! My review, going up sometime within two weeks, will be a bit more thorough and really, really long.

Also - I wonder why only the voice actors for Batman, Superman, Flash, Woner Woman, and Martian Manhunterare recognized in the end credit....

Joker85
11-03-2001, 10:45 PM
Since there are already some spoilers here, what are the opening credits like?

Tim Drake
11-04-2001, 05:59 AM
Hmmm. I still a little disillusioned. I was really hoping this show would beat BTAS but I know that's practically impossible to do.

Joker85
11-04-2001, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Tim Drake
Hmmm. I still a little disillusioned. I was really hoping this show would beat BTAS but I know that's practically impossible to do.
NOTHING could beat BTAS!! But I do hope that this comes in 2nd!!:)

Salvor
11-04-2001, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Tim Drake
Hmmm. I still a little disillusioned. I was really hoping this show would beat BTAS but I know that's practically impossible to do.
I don't think anything will ever match BTAS. Especially not a Justice League series. Such a show caters to younger audiences and consequently it is bound to meet certain terms: action-packed episodes, huge battles on a world scale, gruesome monster attacks...

When BTAS came out, not only did it lay the foundations for a new animated era, it also enhanced the true will of breaking free from those terms by setting up a "film noir" type of story, an art-deco style, or an often overwhelming and dark atmosphere... I've said it before and I'll say it again: it was trail-blazing.

To get back on-topic, you can't hope such a path will be blazed when dealing with martians and super powers :) Still I'm looking forward to seeing if Timm and co are able to surprise us. This genre has proven to be very hard to handle in the past 2 decades ...

James Harvey
11-04-2001, 12:32 PM
The opening sequence is a nice mix of the BTAS opening (with it's mysteriousness) and TNBSA, with t's very angular dark representation. It's very nicely done.

The show is real good, and it does slightly build on the B:TAS formula by simplizing the best aspects of each character and getting rid of all the dung that the comic counterparts drag along. JL will be an awesome show but will never match B:TAS. B:TAS worked on many levels, and JL will, too - but just not the same way. B:TAS started a whole new forumla for animation, and JL successfully carries the torch.

Salvor
11-04-2001, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Dick Grayson
The opening sequence is a nice mix of the BTAS opening (with it's mysteriousness) and TNBSA, with t's very angular dark representation. It's very nicely done.
Great! That sounds very promising.

Vin
11-04-2001, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Dick Grayson
The opening sequence is a nice mix of the BTAS opening (with it's mysteriousness) and TNBSA, with t's very angular dark representation. It's very nicely done.

The show is real good, and it does slightly build on the B:TAS formula by simplizing the best aspects of each character and getting rid of all the dung that the comic counterparts drag along. JL will be an awesome show but will never match B:TAS. B:TAS worked on many levels, and JL will, too - but just not the same way. B:TAS started a whole new forumla for animation, and JL successfully carries the torch.

However, the opening sequence that came with the JL pilot was not finished yet and was a work in progress. It was only stills, so perhaps it will be different than what was shown or longer.

The Mad Hatter
11-04-2001, 02:00 PM
The opening sequence is a mix of the seven characters walking toward the screen, a la "The Magnificent Seven," mixed with moody, wonderfully shadowed shots of each character doing their thing. The title music is a mite subdued, but I like it.

Shriek
11-04-2001, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Joker85
Well, as long as they get Batman right, that's enough for me!:p :D


Couldn't agree with you more Joker.

Maxie Zeus
11-04-2001, 04:51 PM
The title sequence on the preview tape hasn't been finished yet. It's a montage of concept drawings--basically it edits together colored sketches of the storyboard for the sequence. In fact, except for the roughness of the actual title card "Justice League" I'm not sure why it needs animation. It is very raw and powerful, and if were smoothed out it might lose something.

The music for it also hasn't been finished, since it fades out rather than resolves at the end. I hope the final title music is very much like what was on the tape, though. Some other review (Beck? Amid?) likened it to "The Right Stuff" and that's not far wrong. It has a powerful undertone without being brassy and triumphant: It suggests strength being gathered, but not yet displayed.