My Thoughts on "I'm Popeye"

[Looney Man]

Like the rest of you, I don't know when I'M POPEYE
will premiere. But when it does, there are a few Popeye
'toons that I feel will NOT be shown:

POP PIE A LA MODE

POPEYE'S PAPPY

YOUR A SAP MR. JAP

SCRAP THE JAPS

and possibly a few other war time Popeyes.

However, given that this show will probably be airing at 1am
there's always a slim chance that at least one of these toons could appear. Any comments?

[David Gerstein]

Any comments?
Only that I'm disappointed to see another list posted here of "cartoons that are likely to be censored or banned". No offense, but in the past, this kind of posting has led directly to CN censoring and/or banning cartoons— cartoons that their censors *hadn't* realized were "objectionable", until we effectively *told* them so. They read this board.
Fairly often, networks show cartoons that would likely be censored or banned if their censors noticed. I'm not going to start listing those cartoons. People on the inside at these networks have assured me that if I list them, I'm not going to see them again.
Again, Looney Man, no offense intended, and I don't mean to sound self-righteous. But please understand our situation before you post.

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by David Gerstein
Any comments?
Only that I'm disappointed to see another list posted here of "cartoons that are likely to be censored or banned". No offense, but in the past, this kind of posting has led directly to CN censoring and/or banning cartoons— cartoons that their censors *hadn't* realized were "objectionable", until we effectively *told* them so. They read this board.
Fairly often, networks show cartoons that would likely be censored or banned if their censors noticed. I'm not going to start listing those cartoons. People on the inside at these networks have assured me that if I list them, I'm not going to see them again.
Again, Looney Man, no offense intended, and I don't mean to sound self-righteous. But please understand our situation before you post.

David Gerstein is right on this. In order to avoid further damages to the classic cartoon past, how about iffffff our moderators immediately delete such posts which name cartoons as soon as they appear (or they are alerted)???

(I think it is better to effectively censor the occasional post rather than have more and more cartoons banned forever).

[David Gerstein]

Hi again!

Interesting thought, Sogturtle.
I would want to make an important distinction, though: it's OK to talk about cartoons that we *know* have already been banned or censored. I would never want to end *those* discussions.
It's OK to talk about the cut in POPEYE THE SAILOR now that it has actually been done. It's OK to talk about the fact that FRIGID HARE is banned by Cartoon Network, as they have officially announced same.
The only mistake, I think, is beginning a discussion of the following types:

A) "I'm surprised they haven't banned Cartoon X by now..." [optional: going on to give a reason]
B) "I don't know for sure, but I suspect Cartoon X probably won't be shown in Compilation Y" [optional: going on to give a reason]
C) "CN doesn't realize it, but Cartoon X— still shown regularly— has a juicy scene of Ethnicities 1, 2, and 3 in an opium den, committing suicide with pistols... and they haven't cut it out yet!"

This isn't just a TTTP problem. I notice that a few months ago on rec.arts.disney.animation, someone began a thread like this about the cartoon WHO KILLED COCK ROBIN with respect to the upcoming Silly Symphony DVD (where COCK ROBIN had just been announced as one of the included titles).
The gist of the thread was that "Disney would never *dare* to release it uncut— don't they realize it contains THIS and THIS..."
At some point, a few guys protested that Disney censors might be reading the newsgroup and listening to the conversation. The protesters basically got booed for being paranoid, and the analysis of offensive scenes in COCK ROBIN continued unabated.
Now, according to amazon.com's finalized contents list, COCK ROBIN has been dropped from the DVD. Looks like the censors *were* listening.

(Note that I'm only using this as my example because it's out in the open now. If I wasn't yet sure of the DVD's final contents, I wouldn't be discussing related controversies in public.)

[Jon Cooke]

Well, I have a feeling that those wouldn't have shown on the new Popeye show anyway. I am sure the censors are already well aware of them (has CN *ever* aired "Pop-Pie Ala Mode" or "Scrap the Japs"?). But, I do agree 100% with the comments David and Sogturtle make about watching what you say.


-Jon

[Larry T]

The same can be said for the five new Columbia House tapes. On the recent Bugs Bunny tape, one of the cartoons featured was listed to be "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt". Someone in this group had stated that they were getting this tape just for this cartoon, along with a comment like "I'm surprised they (CH) is including this cartoon, seeing as it has been banned from CN as of recent...." This remained on the listing until the tape was actually released ("back-ordered" and late, incidently..... hmmmmmm) and it was indeed missing this title when subscribers received it.

When you think about it, even though the prints are beautifully remastered, and well worth the money, there still isn't really anything that hasn't aired on TV or other tapes at point or another..... and a few are the same prints used for television airplay, too (with incorrect opening credit music, "dubbed" title cards, etc.) It would be interesting to see if another five volumes come out, because most of the PC cartoons have been released through them as it is....... at 15 cartoons per tape, they would eventually HAVE to hit on the rest that are getting pulled one-at-a-time from television broadcast.....

[bozo]

Looney Man is not so looney. I have not even considered those four titles (not now anyway). If I'm gonna push it'd be for something less blatant like Spinach fer Britain. But, I'm also pushing for an earlier timeslot. I also don't want to hurt anybody's feelings (You're a Sap). I'm just trying to get this show on the air, and CN is totally letting me program B&W's which no network catering to kids is fond of. While I think all cartoons should air, unfortunately in these times things need to be shown in their proper context. Especially the wartime cartoons which were purposely mean spirited. But there are so many other amazing Popeye cartoons. I've preached long enough...

[happyheathen]

Why am I loving this?:D

[alstin]

Originally posted by Looney Man





and possibly a few other war time Popeyes.



I don't know about this. I saw a few wartime cartoons on Boomerang the other day. One involved Popeye defeating a Japanese submarine (can anybody name it & tell me if it is somehow censored). He says "So sorry" with a Japanese type accent once in the cartoon. I also saw one where Popeye & Bluto are competing to get a contract for building warships. They do pass some wartime cartoons once in a while. ALSO, if a moderator thinks that it is unsafe to post threads like this, they should feel free to edit or delete any thread, with good reason of course.

[J Lee]

iI don't know about this. I saw a few wartime cartoons on Boomerang the other day. One involved Popeye defeating a Japanese submarine (can anybody name it & tell me if it is somehow censored). He says "So sorry" with a Japanese type accent once in the cartoon. I also saw one where Popeye & Bluto are competing to get a contract for building warships.

The two cartoons you're thinking of are "Blunder Below" and "A Hull of a Mess." The first was a late Fleischer cartoon and the second was one of the early Famous ones, and which also was the debut of the sailor's pipe "toot toot" opening.

As far as what they show on "I'm Popeye," I know there are certain WWII cartoons that are out of bounds, but hopefully, at least "A Jolly Good Furlough" will make it past the censors. That one played for years and years on WPIX in New York without any problems, but has been personna non grata on the Turner networks, mainly because of the "Did you kill any Japs, Uncle Popeye?" line in the middle of the picture.

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by bozo
Looney Man is not so looney. I have not even considered those four titles (not now anyway). If I'm gonna push it'd be for something less blatant like Spinach fer Britain. But, I'm also pushing for an earlier timeslot. I also don't want to hurt anybody's feelings (You're a Sap). I'm just trying to get this show on the air, and CN is totally letting me program B&W's which no network catering to kids is fond of. While I think all cartoons should air, unfortunately in these times things need to be shown in their proper context. Especially the wartime cartoons which were purposely mean spirited. But there are so many other amazing Popeye cartoons. I've preached long enough...

And here is our concrete evidence for being incredibly careful about mentioning uncensored scenes. Annnnnd potent reason to give serious consideration to my notion (above) of immediately deleting any such posts.

[happyheathen]

Originally posted by Sogturtle


And here is our concrete evidence for being incredibly careful about mentioning uncensored scenes. Annnnnd potent reason to give serious consideration to my notion (above) of immediately deleting any such posts.

maybe if you shot off a couple of roman candles...

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by happyheathen


maybe if you shot off a couple of roman candles...

Noooooo, somebody would think they were surface-to-air missiles
;) :)

[happyheathen]

Originally posted by Sogturtle


Noooooo, somebody would think they were surface-to-air missiles
;) :)


not goin' near this one...

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Jon Cooke
(has CN *ever* aired "Pop-Pie Ala Mode" or "Scrap the Japs"?)


"Pop-Pie A La Mode" aired once on "The Popeye Hour" on TNT in the spring of 1990 (and I didn't have a tape in the VCR because I thought I had all they'd ever show).

A redrawn "Scrap the Japs" aired on "Tom & Jerry's Funhouse" on TBS one morning in April or May of 1988 (less than a month before I had a VCR).

Also, "Popeye's Pappy" was part of the syndicated Popeye program in 1988 (but I didn't tape from that show because the cartoons were sped up). And a clip of Popeye in the pot with the outboard was used in an early commercial for CN. ("It slices! It dices! It's the world's only Cartoon Network!")

[David Gerstein]

In the spring of 1990, POP-PIE also aired on the TBS "Tom and Jerry's Funhouse". Luckily, I was there with a VCR. Unluckily, I taped the print— beautiful and remastered— at SLP speed, as was then my habit as a penniless high school student.
BUGS BUNNY NIPS THE NIPS and, yes, POPEYE'S PAPPY were also shown, once apiece, in sparkling new prints at about that time. I taped them too, but again at SLP. With POPEYE'S PAPPY I've never had a chance to get a better copy.

BTW— Tim, when I spoke of CN censors before, it was not my intention to refer to Bozo, a conscientious person who is clearly devoted to the cartoons we want to see.

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by David Gerstein
BTW— Tim, when I spoke of CN censors before, it was not my intention to refer to Bozo, a conscientious person who is clearly devoted to the cartoons we want to see.

Hi David~

Yes I realized full well you were not referring to Bozo. But my point was that NOW that those four Popeye toons have been pointed out they are now "known to the world"... (Looney Man wrote in innocence, but with unfortunate results). As a Warner employee of a fair amount of authority and RESPONSIBILITY this left Bozo in the uneviable place of having to blacklist them. (Almost certainly others within AOL-Time-Warner saw the initial post above thus tying his hands).

I have nothing but the greatest respect and admiration for both Bozo and Mr. GAK!!

[David Gerstein]

Respect for them... >sniffff!< But not for me... :(
Was it the day I beat you to that Flip the Frog Annual on eBay... say it ain't so!!! (But I'm sure you'll cream me in the race to something someday!)

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by David Gerstein
Respect for them... >sniffff!< But not for me... :(
Was it the day I beat you to that Flip the Frog Annual on eBay... say it ain't so!!! (But I'm sure you'll cream me in the race to something someday!)

Yes David you have my respect too!!! (C'mon who couldn't respect a Felix the Cat expert). I can't remember much about the Flip the Frog thing anymore... Anything of real note in it???

[David Gerstein]

Hey Tim—
Geez, do know that I was only joking. I don't demand respect from anyone.
Am I a Felix expert? Well, I've studied the character a lot, but I think I know more about his development as a character (and the places he appeared) than I do about the behind-the-scenes life of the Sullivan studio. There's a lot of info John Canemaker must have memorized that I have to remind myself of by... er, well, by reading John Canemaker!
I *am* proud to have assembled a closer-to-complete filmography for my book and website, but this I did together with Cole Johnson and a couple of other fine historians. So if I'm in some way an expert, then so are others.
Okay, Fantagraphics billed me as a Felix expert when they advertised my book. I was... embarrassed! :rolleyes:
Re: the Flip the Frog annual: if you want to see what the comics in it looked like, jump over to Pietro's website. I mailed him some xeroxes of the comics, and he scanned a few in and put them up.

[Sogturtle]

"Don't you know a joke when you hear one... Hah, hah, hah, hah... GET ME OUT of here!!!!!!" (Young Frankenstein quote).

Yeah David I knew it twas a funny. Buuuuut saw it as a nice opportunity to pass you a well-deserved compliment and praise. Annnnd you come off as a genuinely nice person. Whereas John Canemaker in SOME of his books (his Tex Avery tome, and his "Before The Animation Begins" book) sounds incredibly pompous and to be afflicted with that most dreaded disease, Politico Correctus. Wonder if there is a vaccine for that (a cure would be nice!!) ;) :) :D Buuuuut like Mike Barrier, Canemaker remains a very well respected animation historian. However in both cases their views deviate far from the common cartoon lover's views.

David Butler of Bosko Video narrowly outbid me on a page of Bosko comics as well... Then he asked me what I knew about them!!! And then didn't bother responding to me... ever.

Will try to check out the Flip stuff on Pietro's page (I virtually never think to check peoples pages, sorry!). Since losing the Flip to you I've had to find solace in my one single original Flip the Frog animation layout... Not sure if it is by Ub or Grim.

[bozo]

Dear Secret Society,
I think you're all pretty funny. Keep your fingers crossed and hopefully the Popeye show will start on 11/11. I know I'm keeping mine crossed.
xoxo,
B

[lislebartman]

Thanks for keeping us posted. It is greatly appreciated...:D

[Ricochet]

Umm, why is Popeye's Pappy controversial? I think I've seen it, but I don't remember it.

[PorkyandDaffy]

Doesn't the cartoon deal with Popeye and Pappy being on a native jungle?

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Ricochet
Umm, why is Popeye's Pappy controversial? I think I've seen it, but I don't remember it.


It's a loose remake of "Goonland", only instead of being a prisoner of the Goons, Pappy is the king of a tribe of cannibals. ("King Pop. Rag Mop. Be Bop!") Pappy sics them on Popeye, but then comes to his senses, eats spinach, and rescues Popeye from the stew pot.

[Crazy Tom]

Originally posted by bozo
Keep your fingers crossed and hopefully the Popeye show will start on 11/11.

I did not know CN changed the date! I read in USA Today that the premiere was on for October 28th, and had it ready to record on the VCR, but no further updates were given regarding an actual or rescheduled release date.

What was the reason for CN delaying the Popeye Premiere?