Chip'n'Dale/Goofy Gophers

[SpeedyLover]

Beleive it or not,as a child I once mistook the Goofy Gophers for the two Disney chipmunks Chip and Dale.Having seen much more Warner Brothers cartoons than I have Disney cartoons,I recently rented a compilation of Chip'n'Dale cartoons on VHS,just to see for myself how much they compare to the Goofy Gophers.They may look simular but their voices and characterizations are totally different.There's really no comparison at all.Which isn't surprising seeing how there has always been a great difference between Disney cartoons and Warner Brothers cartoons.:bosko:

[Brandon Pierce]

Their names are similar on one aspect. They are a spoof of a certain thing.

The gophers' names "Mac N' Tosh" I believe was the name of a company (it's something bigger today), and Chip N' Dale is a spoof of chipendale which..... uh.... should I post what it is? I think I'd get banned if I did.

Speaking of which, did any1 here besides me know, that "Tom & Jerry" was actually the name of a drink before they became the names of a certain cat and mouse:confused:

[Jack]

Mac N' Tosh is a spoof on the name of a type of apple/fruit (Macintosh), and Chip N' Dale is a spoof on Chippendale, a style of furniture (http://allsands.com/Home/antiquefurnitur_rwl_gn.htm).

[nakak]

Mac N' Tosh is a spoof on the name of a type of apple/fruit (Macintosh), and Chip N' Dale is a spoof on Chippendale, a style of furniture (http://allsands.com/Home/antiquefurnitur_rwl_gn.htm).Arn't chippendale a male stripper?

[Toss]

Arn't chippendale a male stripper?
WHOA!! That was out of the blue.

Am I naive not to have known that? just curious.

[frogboxer]

Arn't chippendale a male stripper?Yes, but Jack is right - the Disney characters were named for the furniture.

[JDWeil]

Mac N' Tosh is a spoof on the name of a type of apple/fruit (Macintosh), and Chip N' Dale is a spoof on Chippendale, a style of furniture (http://allsands.com/Home/antiquefurnitur_rwl_gn.htm).

Mac 'n Tosh (McIntosh) was the name applied to a certain treated cotton fabric used in rainwear. Chip 'n' Dale (Chippendale) was the name of a 18th century furniture maker.

[Bobby B]

I don't think the Goofy Gophers had names before THE BUGS BUNNY SHOW. Also, someone on the board said they're referred to as brothers on TBBS, so maybe people thought they were gay even back then.

[JUNGLEJIM ENGEL]

"Mac 'n Tosh" may be "retro-fitted" names, but at least they're halfway decent names...

I think the all-time WORST name for a W-B character (also retro-fitted, though now sadly in common usage) is "Marvin the Martian"! How CLEVER. It's like "Ed the Earthman" or "Mike the Moonman"....

JONES! IYIYI....for that matter, I'd love for somebody to come up with evidence that "Michigan J. Frog" isn't another of Jones' after-the-fact christenings... And "GOSSAMER"!!!! Don't get me going...

[The Spectre]

Well, is "Gossamer" really an official name? It was only really used in "Duck Dodgers and the Return..." as, esentially, part of a joke.

[Sogturtle]

Bobby B, Spectre, Junglejim~

I have a copy of one of Art Davis' model sheets of the gophers, and the only name affixed to it is "Goofy Gophers". So you can figure it out from there...

My own descriptive name for Chuck's Martian was always "The Little Martian", as such I've always detested his suddenly being christened "Marvin Martian" :sad: . Iffffff Chuck really wanted to name him after himself (Martin) it's a pity he didn't do so... Course then the owners of TV's "My Favorite Martian" would have sued Warners (and Chuck) for infringement :shrug:. But yeah, it's like Chuck Jones suddenly adopted the Disney method of naming (if it's either alliterative or cute then use it :rolleyes: ) "Murderous Martian" ;) :p would have been so much more in keeping with Warner's tradition of descriptive names...

And as for "Gossamer", I think the only way we can resolve that one is to find one of the Jones model sheets of him from "Water, Water Every Hare"...

[JUNGLEJIM ENGEL]

I'm sincerely doubt anyone will ever find a model sheet from "Water, Water" or "Hair Raising Hare" with the name "Gossamer" on it. I'm certain that's just latter-day Jones with his incessant need to be percieved as literate and well-read.

I always called the character (now called "Marvin") Commander X-2 (or we called him "the bowling ball martian", in reference to his head...

[Sogturtle]

I'm sincerely doubt anyone will ever find a model sheet from "Water, Water" or "Hair Raising Hare" with the name "Gossamer" on it. I'm certain that's just latter-day Jones with his incessant need to be percieved as literate and well-read.

I always called the character (now called "Marvin") Commander X-2 (or we called him "the bowling ball martian", in reference to his head...


Junglejim~

Yeah my own doubts about the monster having any real name at all (particularly "Gossamer") are quite large... Although the use of the gag-moniker "Rudolph" in "Water, Water..." in theory MAY point to a much belated (20 years in hatching) gag on Rudy Zamora's constantly disheveled hair. And yes Chuck's path almost certainly briefly crossed Rudy's at the Iwerks studio...

As to Chuck's need to be perceived as literate and well-read, I can add this... Possibly unknown to his Warner co-workers, Art Davis for a while kept a list of malapropisms he heard at the studio. The list that I have dates (it strongly appears) from early 1945. Very high on the list with strange verbal manglings we find Friz Freleng, Hawley Pratt, and Warren Foster, with far fewer verbal gaffes appearing for "Clamp", Tedd Pierce or Bob McKimson... Some animators and assistants names show up as well. But at the bottom of the list numerically (among major personnel) we find Chuck Jones and Dave Monahan having the fewest, one each. So I think this does indicate that even at that early date (1945) that Chuck was quite well read (for whatever it's worth).

And just for the warped record :D , as a wee bairn :D I (and my siblings) referred to the aforementioned monster as "The Hairy Meatball Monster" :p :bosko: Ahhhhh the names children come up with! :p

[JUNGLEJIM ENGEL]

I'm not really questioning whether Jones was well-read or an intellectual----I'm sure he was... I just found his endless attempt to "legitimise" himself and his work in the media grating and embaressing.

He was forever quoting Mark Twain, Santayana, or James Thurber, as if to get the interviewer to think "Wow! For a guy who draws cartoon ducks, this guy's pretty SMART!" The affected wardrobe ("Big Daddy" panama hat, Tennessee Williams ice-cream suit, and Orson Wells supersized bow tie) just compounded the effect...apparently it wasn't enough to have been a great cartoonist, making some of the greatest cartoons, with the greatest cast of characters.

Don't get me wrong---Jones was (and is) an artistic hero of mine...I just like my Termite Terrace Alumni a little more wacky, and a little less pretentious. Give me Bob Clampett, with his patch-emblazened Looney Tunes windbreaker and Cecil puppet on his arm, jamming his index finger up somebody else's nose (mine--on more than one occasion) anytime.

[Sogturtle]

I'm not really questioning whether Jones was well-read or an intellectual----I'm sure he was... I just found his endless attempt to "legitimise" himself and his work in the media grating and embaressing.

He was forever quoting Mark Twain, Santayana, or James Thurber, as if to get the interviewer to think "Wow! For a guy who draws cartoon ducks, this guy's pretty SMART!" The affected wardrobe ("Big Daddy" panama hat, Tennessee Williams ice-cream suit, and Orson Wells supersized bow tie) just compounded the effect...apparently it wasn't enough to have been a great cartoonist, making some of the greatest cartoons, with the greatest cast of characters.

Don't get me wrong---Jones was (and is) an artistic hero of mine...I just like my Termite Terrace Alumni a little more wacky, and a little less pretentious. Give me Bob Clampett, with his patch-emblazened Looney Tunes windbreaker and Cecil puppet on his arm, jamming his index finger up somebody else's nose (mine--on more than one occasion) anytime.


Junglejim Engel~

I've said it many times here, I honestly think the absolute world of all the great Warners and MGM directors ARTISTICALLY and COMEDICALLY. I THINK that Chuck's very late-in-life switch to Panama hat and Colonel Sanders :p attire really was a reaction on his part to his loss of hair. The great animator Virgil Ross went totally bald back in the Fifties and eventually responded years later by buying a very large gray toupee! Chuck's response to creeping hair-loss was to first start combing his hair forwards in the Sixties and then much later (I believe) was to don that Panama hat and then the Colonel Sanders suit to offset the hat. And yeah Chuck's quoting great authors repeatedly was a little odd for one of the greatest cartoonists ever, but he was truly affected by what he'd read and evidently it sank in (just a little too far!). And for the record Chuck found Disney's musical-comedy version of "The Jungle Book" to be ummmmm offensive to Kipling, precipitating his own serious versions of "Rikki Tikki Tavi", "Mowgli's Brothers" and "The White Seal". Soooooo Chuck REALLY did take his literature quite seriously.

But yeah the thought of Bob Clampett jabbing his finger up somebody's nose just fits his persona (even in his latter years). I can't see Chuck or Friz ever doing that!!

[Daffysleftfoot]

But yeah the thought of Bob Clampett jabbing his finger up somebody's nose just fits his persona (even in his latter years). I can't see Chuck or Friz ever doing that!!

Forgive me, but I'm still in the dark about this "Clampett's finger up someone's nose" thing. He wasn't involved in that one Monty Python sketch, was he?:confused:

[David Gerstein]

IYIYI....for that matter, I'd love for somebody to come up with evidence that "Michigan J. Frog" isn't another of Jones' after-the-fact christenings...You want evidence? You've got it!
In the Bugs Bunny Show episode where ONE FROGGY EVENING is used, the frog is apparently named something else, and it's not as fancy a name. (Info from Jerry Beck.)