anyone slightly dissapointed w/ the JL designs?

[DerekPowers]

this has been on my for a while. is anyone dissapointed w/ the character designs on JL, mainly the main superheros? they just seem like the comic book versions drawn in animated style, w/ not much liberty taken. Think supergirl, her desingn was great. batmans from 1992 and 1997 were both extreamly stylized and just had such, i dont know, just something extra to it. superman: tas was also very fresh, w/ the whole retro thing going for it (look at clark's design, and supe's face, straight out of the 50s or something.). plus lois was very different from her comic counter part, not to mention nightwing, batgirl, and even robin.

but in JL, their costumes seem exactly the same as in the comics, just drawn more angular. not that it doesnt look awesome, but i was hoping for more creative liberty like they did w/ supergirl or batman. i would have loved them to moderinize the flashes outfit alittle, and change wonder woman a bit. and martian manhunter could have used some tweeking, i mean, he looks straight out of the comics. you know what im saying, just give it that little extra umph that makes it unique and original to the animated universe. but it still looks great. any opinions.....

[doctorcrime]

i think i agree. however when there are so many people who would complain if their heroes looked different than how they "really" look. these are the same people who are continuity freaks and the same people who don't care if the writing in a comic book is any good, as long as it doesn't stir anything up too much. if these people had their way, batman would still look and sound like he did in the 60's there would be no evolution of the character. the reason batman is such a successful character is because there are so many interpretaions of him. if timm took a little more creative liscence with the jl, it would have been risky, sure, but i think it would have been a lot more interesting. especially for established fans who are familiar with the characters. it would give them a chance to look at them a little differently. who knows. maybe warner said not to mess with them too much.

[Samhaine]

Actually, I'd have to say the opposite.

Green Lantern has a much different costume than in the comics. It's somilar, however, to Kyle's and the other GLs from the Superman series.

Batman's is different than the comics. The long ears is one thing. And, in fact, the comics copied off of the animated series for his current look. So theuy didn't copy of the comics, it was vice-versa.

Wonder Woman - what was there to change? I don't see where tweaking could be made.

Martian Manhunter - well, he's now alot thinner, more ghost-like. In the comics he's got a very round head, and just a rounder appearance all-together. His look is very different in JL.

Flash is just as he appeared in Superman.

And HawkGirl has had many different costumes. At least it's different than the current comics outfit.

[Jimmy Kustes]

The Flash could never look cool enough, but overall the designs are just what I expected. Wonder Women looks too much like Lois Lane of STAS.

[doctorcrime]

i agree with green lantern, good move. i think manhunter's costume could have been thrown out the window, though. i have always thougt it to be a very generic and bland design. the characte has so much potential, but because of his design, he is always the generic alien. timm's design looks cool, just change that costume.

[demon's head]

Yeah manhunter can use a better costume...
and they should go back to using the TNBA Batman...
i don't like these pointy ears...
other than that...neat

[Failure]

Yeah the extra-long pointy ears are going to take a little getting used to. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the designs.

[Lucho]

So, maybe put Flash in baggy shorts, hightops and a backwards winged baseball cap.
MM could wear a duster, chaps and Pancho Villa style bullet harness across his chest.
WW in cheaklesss jeans, a star spangled bandana and leather spiked bracelets.
Hawkgirl in giant Thangarian armor which transforms into USnavy Stealth FT3Warhawk Jet fighter.
Aquaman with long hair, a harness and hook, eye patch and a talking paro....oh, never mind!.
Green Lantern, bald with a black leather trench coat, sunglasses and.....NAH!

They all look great as is. If it's not broken don't fix it.

If giving everyone pants, goggles, BMX leather, combat boots and useless "gear/tech/armor" is meant to make things contemporary I'll pass. Supergirl's new look is cute now, but when the Crop-Top and the Tank-Grrrrrrrl boots become dated, new generations will always re-turn to the classic to put things right.

Timm and co. usually have a knack for taking what works and dumping what don't, amalgamating and streamlining years of derivation and continuity into a unique, crisp and stylized absolute. Visually and naratively (for me) I think they've managed to "tweak" and capture the best of what makes these characters work.

[doctorcrime]

i just think that the superman costume designed in the 1930's is a little dated. in order for a new audience to take the character seriously, i think a skintight black leather outfit and a pair of oakley's is neccessary. ok, fine. i actually really like the design for batman. it is a throwback to his first design. bob kane did it right.

[TerryMcGuiness]

Skintight leather and Oakleys on Superman?!

What the hell is this crap!

Tweakings of the outfit I dont mind, but what you're saying would outright rape the character on a visual level!

Its *the* primordial superhero costume for *the* primordial superhero.

To change it would be like trying to make the flag it more EXTREEEME!

I get so sick of people who just wanna change something because they associate Superman with tradition and of course tradition is bad because it was here before you were born therefore its gotta suck. 9_9

[Lucho]

Well, at-least were not talking gladiator boots and purple gloves, I'll admit not everything classic is a good thing, some things had to change.

...but "oakley's":confused: is that those furry pants?:p

[TerryMcGuiness]

Well see, my point is not everything classic is a *bad* thing either.

and I get sicke and tired of the cynical generation being so dismissive or wretching at *anything* thats been a cherished tradition.

Lets put a skull on Supermans chest because tradition is bad and icons should be torn down because they're not "hip".

Superman transcends hip. He doesn't need leather and sunglasses just to make him kewl.

[doctorcrime]

haha, the leather and oakley's on superman was just a joke. calm down. now blood stained camoflouge fatigues on green lantern, hmmm... only if we gave him a cigar. and the flash would look a lot cooler with a pirate hat on. you know, the kind with the skull "n" crossbones. and wonderwoman should wear a couple of uzis and some dentalfloss.

[Lucho]

I see your point, my respo was to doctorcrime's post, who I believe was having some fun at my expense, but until we find out what oakley's are, we'll never know for sure.:)

[Lucho]

And yet again, my post bumped mercilessly out of line, rendering it completely meaningless, oh well, Yoda looks cute though don't he? With the blinking and stuff;)

[doctorcrime]

sorry, this crime doctor's smartass fun was not intended to be at your offense. as for oakley's, they are those "hip" streamlined sunglasses, i mean shades that fools pay over a hundred bucks for. back on topic, i am glad they didn't change superman's costume. as far as how they look, we can only really wait until we see how they treat the characters to see if the designs work.

[doctorcrime]

yes he does, but you outdid yourself with gleek.

[Failure]

Oakley's look cool, now if they didnt require taking out a 4th mortgage to pay for, they'd be cooler.

The blinking yoda's cool Lucho. Where do you get all these blinking avatars? I really liked the blue blinking space monkey.

[Lucho]

None taken. If anything, what I imagined Oakley's to be was far more outrageous.:p

[Lucho]

I'm hopeless with timing posts tonight this things running like a chat.

Thanks for the kind Avatar words, Gleek and Yoda were drawn in Photoshop then animated using Adobe AfterFX.

[doctorcrime]

i think the only way to really target the teen demographic with this show, at least twice a show, it would be shway to see wally west dancing to techno music with his girlfriend in a club with huge lava lamps everywhere.

[NewMaxFranklin]

Originally posted by Lucho
And yet again, my post bumped mercilessly out of line, rendering it completely meaningless, oh well, Yoda looks cute though don't he? With the blinking and stuff;)
LOL!!!

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by doctorcrime
i think the only way to really target the teen demographic with this show, at least twice a show, it would be shway to see wally west dancing to techno music with his girlfriend in a club with huge lava lamps everywhere.

That would be perfect! And we can make their relationship off and on and name her Dana...er...Lana....

[Karkull]

I think that Superman looks maybe a little too old--that jaw is way too pronounced. I prefered the younger look on his show (I also liked the blackened trunks and his old hairstyle). Wonder Woman was great, but I kinda wish they tweaked her breastplate--make it larger and more golden (like in Kingdom Come). However, I think that the Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, Martian Manhunter, and Batman all look great.

As for the villains, my only major complaint is the Shade. I know bad guys in suits are old hat, but I really liked his Victorian outfit from James Robinson's Starman series.

[TerryMcGuiness]

Sorry I jumped the gun when you guys were just joking around.

As many times as I hear people who call themselves Supermans calling for costume changes or having him wear streetclothes or having a stick up their ass about the red trunks (yet nobody seems to ***** about Cyclops or Wolverine haivng them in their colorful costume days) you can understand why I'm a little defensive.

Basically, I've dealt with this kind of cynical attitude alot on message boards.

As for the designs themselves, I like them alot. I'll admit that some of them might seem odd in character turn-around sketch form but when they *move* they look fantastic.

Thats something thats always been the key to Bruce Timms sucess with animating these characters is the he literally builds them for dynamic movement.

I like all the designs alot. I think this version is the ultimate evolution of Timms Batman. Wonder Wiman looks fantastic and I think the only reason people think she looks like Lois is basically because she's a Bruce Timm gal with black hair.

I like J'onn being slimmer. I've always liked the tweaks in the costume for the Flash. The symbol looks so much better that way and less like the Shazam emblem.

The GL outfit is for my money the single greatest and best version of that costume ever devised and it *is* different from the comics so you cant say theres no change ups going on.

With Hawkgirl you basically get the comics Hawkgirl and Hawkman as one character which makes an improvement on both IMO. Love the mace.

With Superman, I dig it. It *is* different than before, but I dig it. I think he looks more in his prime now. There may be just a touch of Ed McGuiness in there to which is 100% OK by me.

The only thing I'll miss is the darkblue and winered though I have no trouble with the primary scheme at all. Of course, in Superman TAS even thought the character was design to have darker blues and reds the animation co.'s never seemed to get it quite right anyway so I think that explains the presence of the standard primary scheme.

But thats okay. We're finally out of the 90's, grim n' gritty is finally starting to lose its choke hold, the continuity cop regime is coming to an end. Its about time a heroes colors be allowed to shine brightly.

[kid_flash]

These designs are just awesome. Let me go into detail, because I like to :D

Superman: Wow. Loved it ever since I saw it. The older look really shows he's in charge here. Just looks like he should: He's the world's greatest superhero, he should walk into a room and just be the leader, no questions asked. The STAS design looks like he's in his late twenties (which was perfect for the show's setting, time-wise), much younger than other JL members. He just looks cool here.

Batman: I really like this design. Batman was enormous in TNBA, and that's more for DKR. I love the long ears, adds to the fear element, and is a nice nod to Bob Kane.

Wonder Woman: You can't change her design. It's just not right. As for looking like Lois...sorta. but the hair really sets them apart.

Flash: While the costume is straight from the comics, his body-shape isn't. He's a LOT thinner here, has a longer face. I always liked the STAS design, so I'm glad they kept it.

Green Lantern: Next to Hal Jordan's costume, this is the best GL design. The mask is a little weird to leave off, but those glowing green eyes just have so much visual potential.

Martian Manhunter: I dunno, I've always kinda liked J'onn's costume. Not the best design ever, but it's very alien. His body-shape is way different from the comics. In the comics, he's just huge, which in a lotta ways he should be. This was the one I was most surprised with, because of how far they strayed from his shape. But the ghost-like look is pretty cool.

Hawkgirl: Honestly, I don't care, as long as I can look at her and tell it's Shiera Hall. I can see that from this design.

But let's face it. These are some of DC's most iconic characters. Changing their costumes too much is just wrong. Ever watch that new Avengers show on Fox Kids? That was just wrong.

[doctorcrime]

eew, i see your point.

[DisneyBoy]

I sadly concur with this topic. Although the early preview material we've seen (the wallpaper for this page and JLAdventures cover art) has been wonderful, the stills and clips from the show do not look so nice. Is the same animation studio that produced B:TAS and S:TAS doing the animation? I understand that Cartoon Network now owns the show, but are they sending storyboards to Japan or some WB studio? All I know is that I am a big fan of art. Heck, I'll even buy one of the many recent "Magical" Superman Adventures stories if good old Aluir Amancio handles the art. From what I've been seeing lately, though, it'll be the story that will save this show, though I realize the art could but much worse. Whatever, either they'll improve or they won't. BUT WE'LL STILL HAVE A NEW SHOW!!!!!:) :) :) :) :)

[Kal-el]

From what I've seen, I'm pleased with the designs for the most part. I'm not sure about the long ears on Batman, or the overall design of MM. I would have liked to see him a bit bigger (as his physical characteristics are described by DC)and a darker green, but that's just me. I like the look of GL. I thought WW design would be a bit updated, but the tried and true will still work for me. Supes is pretty much the same as S:TAS, save a few changes. Staying with the basic design format will makes the transition from TNBA and S:TAS more seemless. A major redesign may have been hard to adjust to early on.

[kid_flash]

DisneyBoy's got a point. The TNBA Joker was an awesome design. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I always liked that design. However, it didn't animated all that well (looked pretty cool in World's Finest, but that's about it).

Same thing could be going on with the JL designs, but from what we've all seen, I'd say Batman's the only one suffering. Which brings me to....


SPOILERS FROM TRAILERS!
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All right, the first JL trailer we saw (other than the SDCC one, I never saw that) would be the one CN showed during Samurai Jack. The only shot we get of Batman is him turning his head towards the camera. Now, IMO, that looked pretty freakin' cool. Made me think "Hey, that Batman design's gonna work."
Then Comics2Film made their snappy little trailer. The shots of Batman in the Batplane were awesome, and the design worked really well. But when J'onn appears in front of Bats and Supes, Batman just doesn't look quite right. Wish I could go into more detail, but C2F's trailer decided to stop showing up for me (what happened to the largest version they had earlier). I'm not getting a visual (Can someone PLEASE convert this somewhere?!?).

So I dunno, we'll just have to see. Other than Batman, it looks like all the designs will animated very well.

[DisneyBoy]

Wondie's legs are too long, her "W"'s aren't right, Superman looks forty and they seriously need to hire animators who can get his "S" right. Geez..

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Karkull]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
...Superman looks forty and they seriously need to hire animators who can get his "S" right. Geez...

Y'know, I've seen a couple of other shots and I think you're right...they're drawing Superman's "S" like they drew Bizzaro's.

[CarterHall]

Ok...the costumes aren't perfect. Granted, they may have not been tweaked at all. But they are recognizable.

Superman: He should be a bit older and wiser

Batman: Bob Kane all the way!

Wonder Woman: Can't really mess with it.

Flash: Perfect as it was in S:TAS

Green Lantern: Best re-design in animation

Martian Manhunter: Love the wraith type look.

Hawkgirl: Great amalgam of Hawkgirls

Check out a few of my designs at my page:

John's Gallery (http://hometown.aol.com/jd3rdinct/newpage.html)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Kitty Pryde]

I like the batman but to be honest i look at superman and except there isnt really anything "new" they could do with him.
Green Lantern is cool even if it isnt kyle
as for hawk girl i think it sucks mainly because i dont like that type of hero
Flash is looking neat and so is martian man hunter
wonder women looks cool but yeah i guess she is alittle too ms.laney :)

[Bic]

I'm happy with all of them....

except for Batman's ears.... they make Batman look kinda wimpy IMO...

...but who knows, it took three seasons for the Enterprise D design to grow on me, maybe it will take seven for Batman's ears. :D

[DerekPowers]

i love batman's new design. they changed it just enough to satisfy me. the ears and purple highlights work perfectly, i think.

mainly its martian manhunter, wonder woman, flash, and hawkgirl, that i feel could have used alittle tweaking. nothing too drastic, just some changes to make them unique to the animated universe, the way they did w/ batman's ears, green lanterns costume, things like that. i think they could have done some really cool things w/ flash's costume, and wonder womans. i still love the designs, i was just hoping for alittle more creative liscence. timm basically took alot of creative liscense w/ all the btas, stas and tnba character designs, look at batman, supergirl, parasite, brainiac, joker, two-face, tnba ventriliquist, tnba scarecrow, metallo, all of them, i can go on and on.

the main character designs in jl that i'm alittle dissapointed w/ are the ones that seem to come right out of the comics and just drawn in animated bruce timm style. supermans design is good, i liked the stas version better, but it still works well even though its not too different from the comics, maybe its the chin or the face, but it works. i miss the dark red on the shorts though.

but i guess once nov 17 rolls around we can all judge for ourselfs. who knows, maybe the traditional costumes will work in the series, maybe its such a big series w/ big stories that the costumes may work. I CANT WAIT TILL NOV 17! peace.

[Cyclops]

Actually, I like the designs except that Batman's heead seems more square (if that's even possible) not to mention his ears are too long. I also don't like the wrinkles on Superman's face.

[The Mad Hatter]

Here's something odd I noticed while watching the screener copy of the pilot again. Batman's highlights in "normal" light are grey with the faintest overtones of deep blue (and not purple as previously reported). But in his "night colors," (i.e. when he's in the shadows) his highlights are a dark, rich blue without a trace of grey! Hmmm...

[DerekPowers]

no purple, that sucks, i really liked the idea of the purple. hmm, you think its the tape quality messing w/ the colors? i hear screener copies in general arent that good of quality and sometimes arent completely finished.

[The Mad Hatter]

Nope, the tape quality was great. No purple.

[Ricochet]

MM look waaaaaaaay better all muscular and bulked up!